Date   

Re: words with no spaces on this web page?

Sarah k Alawami
 

It is a CMS. I contacted the person and told them to tell their developers to change themes or what not. We’ll see, it’s probably too late, but next year hopefully they can do this.

 

Thanks all.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Vaibhav Saraf
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 8:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?

 

Hi,

 

This looks to be a little crazy piece of code. Any particular reason why it would have been put this way?

 

A guess from my side is that it is not the developer's code, but something coming from a CMS sort of thing.

 

Thanks,

Vaibhav

 

 

On Thu, 20 May 2021 at 20:50, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:

Actually the developer did notice a mistake in paragraphs as well so they will fix that to make the page easier to read as they were even having trouble.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 4:35 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?

 

I don’t know if there is a way, such as an add-on, to skip blank lines.  But blank lines should be shown .  Not doing so means incorrect copy and paste and it also doesn’t give a true representation of what is on screen.  It may be that you could have a setting to show paragraphs or not when in browse mode, but showing them should be a choice and it should be the default.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: zahra

Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 6:26 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?

 

but i really hate blank lines especially when i have problems with
blank lines using Say all and skim reading enabled.
i thought that web pages have not blank lines at all and i was glad!
in notepad++, i find an option that removes all empty lines or blank
line and i really love it.
i wish that no book, no article, no web page or any email have not
blank lines at all!
for me, if nvda causes disappearing blank lines, i really love it and
appreciate it!

On 5/20/21, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
> Thinking about what I wrote in my quoted message below, why does NVDA browse
> mode not show blank lines where paragraphs occur?  This would make it
> unnecessary to turn off browse mode to correctly copy text.  And, since I
> would think most blind people don’t know this is a problem in the first
> place, my guess is that a lot of blind people routinely send incorrectly
> formatted text to sighted people.
>
> Gene
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gene
> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 4:20 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?
>
> When I send information to sighted people that is more than a few lines,
> such as an article or an excerpt of an article that is long enough to amount
> to something, I copy it with browse mode off.  If you check, you will see
> that no paragraph indications are present in the browse mode representation
> of a page.  You can down arrow through an article and you won’t see blank
> lines.  If you copy text with browse mode off, you will see blank lines
> where paragraphs occur.
>
> I’m not discussing this to be argumentative but it is important to know
> this.  Sighted people find it very difficult reading long blocs of text with
> no paragraph breaks.  For some reason, it is visually very difficult.  Also,
> you want to send text in a standard format and not appear as though you or
> your equipment is in some way deficient to a sighted reader.  the reader
> won’t know that the screen-reader is causing the problem.  All they will
> know is that they are being sent incorrectly formatted text.
>
> In addition, as I said, in this specific instance, copying the text with
> browse mode off and pasting it into Notepad produces text with proper
> spacing.
>
> Gene
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gene
> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 4:05 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?
>
> When you are in browse mode, it copies from the browse mode buffer.  You
> need to have browse mode off to copy directly from the page.
>
> Gene
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sarah k Alawami
> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 3:20 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?
>
> Actually, when I copied the example, I was in browse mode. So it copied
> straight from the website to the email.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Gene
> <gsasner@...>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 11:46:43 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?
>
> I just tried copying and pasting the text while in browse mode and there
> were no spaces.  I don’t know if this would be an accessibility problem.  If
> an incorrect carachter is being used, it may be but it may be that, whatever
> the case, NVDA should be made to recognize the carachter.  It may be used
> elsewhere.
>
> Gene
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gene
> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 1:41 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?
>
> If you follow the resend confirmation link, you will see the page being
> discussed.  I’m saying this as a general comment to anyone.  Try things if
> they aren’t dangerous.  You may find the solution to problems or you may be
> able to do something you are attempting.
>
> In this case, I thought I might see some sort of registration but the page
> came up.  Either way, I didn’t think following the link would be dangerous.
>
> I saw the text with no spaces but if I turn off browse mode, select all and
> paste it to the clipboard and paste it into Notepad, the spaces are
> present.
>
> Evidently, the site is using a nonstandard carachter for space which NVDA
> doesn’t recognize but which is recognized by the browser.
>
> Gene
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sarah k Alawami
> Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 11:14 PM
> To: Nvda List
> Subject: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?
>
> Hello. You can access this web page  to see what I’m talking about. When I
> explore the page, I get words with no spaces, yet the sighted person sees
> words with spaces. I’ve been in touch with the expo guys, and they have been
> in touch with their developers who did this form and the site, and they
> suggested I use chrome, that failed, and brave failed. Here is an example of
> what I’m seeing.
>
>
>
>
>
> ThankyouforyourinterestinparticipatinginFlightSimExpoonSeptember24-26,2021inSanDiego,California.
>
>
>
>
> The form where the radio buttons read correctly.  The section reading
> “In-Person Registration - All Weekend ($70.00)” reads correctly as well, but
> what should I tell them about what’s going on. Narrator shows each word as a
> separate element by the way.
>
>
>
> Take care.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali



Re: Screen Reader Compatibility with Third Party Website(s)

 

On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 12:41 PM, Luke Davis wrote:
You've clearly never tried to use iCloud.com in Chrome vurses Firefox. :)
-
I've never tried to use iCloud, period.  I assiduously avoid Apple to the maximum extent possible.

Still wouldn't change my generalization one bit.  This is what I'd call, "The exception that proves the rule."  There are always outliers on the great bell curve that do just that.  This falls into the category of very rare indeed.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


Re: Screen Reader Compatibility with Third Party Website(s)

Luke Davis
 

Brian Vogel wrote:

Simple answer:  Yes.There will be the rare exception, but even those rare exceptions should not go from wonderfully accessible to "I can't get at anything
anymore."
You've clearly never tried to use iCloud.com in Chrome vurses Firefox. :)

After that experience you might be less general in that statement.

Luke


Re: words with no spaces on this web page?

Luke Davis
 

I have thought that maybe they generated this code in some sort of template based application, that puts a formatting comment after each word or some such.

Then, a next step in the process is consuming those comments, and in so doing erases their content, but not the comment markers, which are usually harmless.

I don't know why any set of systems would work like this, but something might.

You might find useful info in the headers of the page; such software often leaves a signature there.

Luke

Vaibhav Saraf wrote:

This looks to be a little crazy piece of code. Any particular reason why it would have been put this way?
A guess from my side is that it is not the developer's code, but something coming from a CMS sort of thing.


Re: Screen Reader Compatibility with Third Party Website(s)

 

On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 12:11 PM, Gene wrote:
those who want the best chance of getting better or good access should have both on their machine. 
-
Accessibility aside, those who want an "optimal experience" (however they might define that) should have multiple browsers on their machine and know how to use them.  Even within a class of browsers that use the same common code (Chromium, in the case of Chromium, Chrome, MS-Edge, Brave, Vivaldi, and more) there can be slight differences in how well each "plays with" a given website.

Generally, having some variant of Firefox, if not Firefox itself, and at least two Chromium-based browsers (and MS-Edge comes with Win10) is a very good idea indeed.  And particularly where accessibility is concerned.  I've way more than once seen the same website work considerably more smoothly with a screen reader when one browser is being used versus another.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


Re: Screen Reader Compatibility with Third Party Website(s)

Gene
 

I don’t see any reason why Windows version should make a difference.  Most sites work well in both Chrome and Firefox.  But if a site doesn’t, those who want the best chance of getting better or good access should have both on their machine. 
 
It doesn’t matter what the default browser is.  All that having a browser be the default means is that it opens when you do something like follow a link from an e-mail.  It doesn’t affect a browsers performance in any way aside from that. 
 
Gene
 

Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 11:02 AM
Subject: [nvda] Screen Reader Compatibility with Third Party Website(s)
 
Hello NVDA Group,

If a particular website and NVDA were compatible on a Windows Seven
computer, is it highly likely the same will be the case if used on a
Windows 10 computer with Chrome rather than FireFox as the default
browser?

Thank you for your input in advance.

--
David C. Russell





Re: Screen Reader Compatibility with Third Party Website(s)

 

Simple answer:  Yes.

There will be the rare exception, but even those rare exceptions should not go from wonderfully accessible to "I can't get at anything anymore."
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


Screen Reader Compatibility with Third Party Website(s)

David Russell
 

Hello NVDA Group,

If a particular website and NVDA were compatible on a Windows Seven
computer, is it highly likely the same will be the case if used on a
Windows 10 computer with Chrome rather than FireFox as the default
browser?

Thank you for your input in advance.

--
David C. Russell


Re: words with no spaces on this web page?

Vaibhav Saraf
 

Hi,

This looks to be a little crazy piece of code. Any particular reason why it would have been put this way?

A guess from my side is that it is not the developer's code, but something coming from a CMS sort of thing.

Thanks,
Vaibhav


On Thu, 20 May 2021 at 20:50, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:

Actually the developer did notice a mistake in paragraphs as well so they will fix that to make the page easier to read as they were even having trouble.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 4:35 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?

 

I don’t know if there is a way, such as an add-on, to skip blank lines.  But blank lines should be shown .  Not doing so means incorrect copy and paste and it also doesn’t give a true representation of what is on screen.  It may be that you could have a setting to show paragraphs or not when in browse mode, but showing them should be a choice and it should be the default.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: zahra

Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 6:26 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?

 

but i really hate blank lines especially when i have problems with
blank lines using Say all and skim reading enabled.
i thought that web pages have not blank lines at all and i was glad!
in notepad++, i find an option that removes all empty lines or blank
line and i really love it.
i wish that no book, no article, no web page or any email have not
blank lines at all!
for me, if nvda causes disappearing blank lines, i really love it and
appreciate it!

On 5/20/21, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
> Thinking about what I wrote in my quoted message below, why does NVDA browse
> mode not show blank lines where paragraphs occur?  This would make it
> unnecessary to turn off browse mode to correctly copy text.  And, since I
> would think most blind people don’t know this is a problem in the first
> place, my guess is that a lot of blind people routinely send incorrectly
> formatted text to sighted people.
>
> Gene
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gene
> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 4:20 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?
>
> When I send information to sighted people that is more than a few lines,
> such as an article or an excerpt of an article that is long enough to amount
> to something, I copy it with browse mode off.  If you check, you will see
> that no paragraph indications are present in the browse mode representation
> of a page.  You can down arrow through an article and you won’t see blank
> lines.  If you copy text with browse mode off, you will see blank lines
> where paragraphs occur.
>
> I’m not discussing this to be argumentative but it is important to know
> this.  Sighted people find it very difficult reading long blocs of text with
> no paragraph breaks.  For some reason, it is visually very difficult.  Also,
> you want to send text in a standard format and not appear as though you or
> your equipment is in some way deficient to a sighted reader.  the reader
> won’t know that the screen-reader is causing the problem.  All they will
> know is that they are being sent incorrectly formatted text.
>
> In addition, as I said, in this specific instance, copying the text with
> browse mode off and pasting it into Notepad produces text with proper
> spacing.
>
> Gene
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gene
> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 4:05 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?
>
> When you are in browse mode, it copies from the browse mode buffer.  You
> need to have browse mode off to copy directly from the page.
>
> Gene
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sarah k Alawami
> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 3:20 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?
>
> Actually, when I copied the example, I was in browse mode. So it copied
> straight from the website to the email.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Gene
> <gsasner@...>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 11:46:43 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?
>
> I just tried copying and pasting the text while in browse mode and there
> were no spaces.  I don’t know if this would be an accessibility problem.  If
> an incorrect carachter is being used, it may be but it may be that, whatever
> the case, NVDA should be made to recognize the carachter.  It may be used
> elsewhere.
>
> Gene
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gene
> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 1:41 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?
>
> If you follow the resend confirmation link, you will see the page being
> discussed.  I’m saying this as a general comment to anyone.  Try things if
> they aren’t dangerous.  You may find the solution to problems or you may be
> able to do something you are attempting.
>
> In this case, I thought I might see some sort of registration but the page
> came up.  Either way, I didn’t think following the link would be dangerous.
>
> I saw the text with no spaces but if I turn off browse mode, select all and
> paste it to the clipboard and paste it into Notepad, the spaces are
> present.
>
> Evidently, the site is using a nonstandard carachter for space which NVDA
> doesn’t recognize but which is recognized by the browser.
>
> Gene
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sarah k Alawami
> Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 11:14 PM
> To: Nvda List
> Subject: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?
>
> Hello. You can access this web page  to see what I’m talking about. When I
> explore the page, I get words with no spaces, yet the sighted person sees
> words with spaces. I’ve been in touch with the expo guys, and they have been
> in touch with their developers who did this form and the site, and they
> suggested I use chrome, that failed, and brave failed. Here is an example of
> what I’m seeing.
>
>
>
>
>
> ThankyouforyourinterestinparticipatinginFlightSimExpoonSeptember24-26,2021inSanDiego,California.
>
>
>
>
> The form where the radio buttons read correctly.  The section reading
> “In-Person Registration - All Weekend ($70.00)” reads correctly as well, but
> what should I tell them about what’s going on. Narrator shows each word as a
> separate element by the way.
>
>
>
> Take care.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali




Re: words with no spaces on this web page?

Sarah k Alawami
 

Actually the developer did notice a mistake in paragraphs as well so they will fix that to make the page easier to read as they were even having trouble.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 4:35 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?

 

I don’t know if there is a way, such as an add-on, to skip blank lines.  But blank lines should be shown .  Not doing so means incorrect copy and paste and it also doesn’t give a true representation of what is on screen.  It may be that you could have a setting to show paragraphs or not when in browse mode, but showing them should be a choice and it should be the default.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: zahra

Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 6:26 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?

 

but i really hate blank lines especially when i have problems with
blank lines using Say all and skim reading enabled.
i thought that web pages have not blank lines at all and i was glad!
in notepad++, i find an option that removes all empty lines or blank
line and i really love it.
i wish that no book, no article, no web page or any email have not
blank lines at all!
for me, if nvda causes disappearing blank lines, i really love it and
appreciate it!

On 5/20/21, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
> Thinking about what I wrote in my quoted message below, why does NVDA browse
> mode not show blank lines where paragraphs occur?  This would make it
> unnecessary to turn off browse mode to correctly copy text.  And, since I
> would think most blind people don’t know this is a problem in the first
> place, my guess is that a lot of blind people routinely send incorrectly
> formatted text to sighted people.
>
> Gene
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gene
> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 4:20 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?
>
> When I send information to sighted people that is more than a few lines,
> such as an article or an excerpt of an article that is long enough to amount
> to something, I copy it with browse mode off.  If you check, you will see
> that no paragraph indications are present in the browse mode representation
> of a page.  You can down arrow through an article and you won’t see blank
> lines.  If you copy text with browse mode off, you will see blank lines
> where paragraphs occur.
>
> I’m not discussing this to be argumentative but it is important to know
> this.  Sighted people find it very difficult reading long blocs of text with
> no paragraph breaks.  For some reason, it is visually very difficult.  Also,
> you want to send text in a standard format and not appear as though you or
> your equipment is in some way deficient to a sighted reader.  the reader
> won’t know that the screen-reader is causing the problem.  All they will
> know is that they are being sent incorrectly formatted text.
>
> In addition, as I said, in this specific instance, copying the text with
> browse mode off and pasting it into Notepad produces text with proper
> spacing.
>
> Gene
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gene
> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 4:05 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?
>
> When you are in browse mode, it copies from the browse mode buffer.  You
> need to have browse mode off to copy directly from the page.
>
> Gene
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sarah k Alawami
> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 3:20 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?
>
> Actually, when I copied the example, I was in browse mode. So it copied
> straight from the website to the email.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Gene
> <gsasner@...>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 11:46:43 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?
>
> I just tried copying and pasting the text while in browse mode and there
> were no spaces.  I don’t know if this would be an accessibility problem.  If
> an incorrect carachter is being used, it may be but it may be that, whatever
> the case, NVDA should be made to recognize the carachter.  It may be used
> elsewhere.
>
> Gene
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gene
> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 1:41 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?
>
> If you follow the resend confirmation link, you will see the page being
> discussed.  I’m saying this as a general comment to anyone.  Try things if
> they aren’t dangerous.  You may find the solution to problems or you may be
> able to do something you are attempting.
>
> In this case, I thought I might see some sort of registration but the page
> came up.  Either way, I didn’t think following the link would be dangerous.
>
> I saw the text with no spaces but if I turn off browse mode, select all and
> paste it to the clipboard and paste it into Notepad, the spaces are
> present.
>
> Evidently, the site is using a nonstandard carachter for space which NVDA
> doesn’t recognize but which is recognized by the browser.
>
> Gene
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sarah k Alawami
> Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 11:14 PM
> To: Nvda List
> Subject: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?
>
> Hello. You can access this web page  to see what I’m talking about. When I
> explore the page, I get words with no spaces, yet the sighted person sees
> words with spaces. I’ve been in touch with the expo guys, and they have been
> in touch with their developers who did this form and the site, and they
> suggested I use chrome, that failed, and brave failed. Here is an example of
> what I’m seeing.
>
>
>
>
>
> ThankyouforyourinterestinparticipatinginFlightSimExpoonSeptember24-26,2021inSanDiego,California.
>
>
>
>
> The form where the radio buttons read correctly.  The section reading
> “In-Person Registration - All Weekend ($70.00)” reads correctly as well, but
> what should I tell them about what’s going on. Narrator shows each word as a
> separate element by the way.
>
>
>
> Take care.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali




Re: words with no spaces on this web page?

Sarah k Alawami
 

I sent them the feedback at about 1 this morning. They are going to forward the  stuff to the devs, in fact, the devs have already been in contact with the person and the person has already been in touch with me. We’ve been having this conversation since Saturday so here’s hoping  things get fixed for either this year or next year. I’ve sent them the feedback about the empty elements and how it would be best to go about fixing it. I’m not sure if this is both nvda and chrome’s fault for rending the page, or if nvda should ignore empty elements like this and read them as a space? A sighted person does so nvda should as well, maybe? I really don’t know.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 1:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?

 

I saw a message from a list member saying that the site reads correctly with Firefox.  I just checked and I can confirm that. 

 

Also, Firefox doesn’t stop at the Resend Authorization link.  it displays it at the top of the page but loads the page.

 

Since the spaces problem occurs with Chrome-based browsers and screen-readers, is this something the site needs to deal with, NVDA needs to deal with, or Chrome?

 

Gene

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Gene

Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 2:54 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?

 

I didn’t say to refresh the page.  The resend authorization is a link.  Press enter.  It is asking, for something to be sent.  I didn’t think pressing enter on the link would be likely to solve the problem.  it did and a cookie was placed on my machine so I can return to the site and not receive the resend authorization link again.  The page opens. 

 

My point is a general one and I’m using this situation as an illustration.  There are times when people know something is safe and may solve a problem but they don’t try it because they are afraid anyway.  If people really don’t know if something is safe, I’m not saying they should try it.  But I think it happens enough to comment on that people are afraid when they know something is safe and they don’t try something.  It builds confidence to do what you know is alright to do and see that it causes no problems.

 

Gene

From: zahra

Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 2:40 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?

 

i tested again by refreshing the page and recieved server not found.
then, refreshed again.
then, my firefox, my laptop and keyboard and nvda became completely unusable.
after sometimes i realized that firefox became unresponsive and could
not do anything except shutdown of my laptop by power button
forcefully!
i really wished to help! God bless you!

On 5/20/21, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
> If you follow the resend confirmation link, you will see the page being
> discussed.  I’m saying this as a general comment to anyone.  Try things if
> they aren’t dangerous.  You may find the solution to problems or you may be
> able to do something you are attempting.
>
> In this case, I thought I might see some sort of registration but the page
> came up.  Either way, I didn’t think following the link would be dangerous.
>
> I saw the text with no spaces but if I turn off browse mode, select all and
> paste it to the clipboard and paste it into Notepad, the spaces are
> present.
>
> Evidently, the site is using a nonstandard carachter for space which NVDA
> doesn’t recognize but which is recognized by the browser.
>
> Gene
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sarah k Alawami
> Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 11:14 PM
> To: Nvda List
> Subject: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?
>
> Hello. You can access this web page  to see what I’m talking about. When I
> explore the page, I get words with no spaces, yet the sighted person sees
> words with spaces. I’ve been in touch with the expo guys, and they have been
> in touch with their developers who did this form and the site, and they
> suggested I use chrome, that failed, and brave failed. Here is an example of
> what I’m seeing.
>
>
>
>
>
> ThankyouforyourinterestinparticipatinginFlightSimExpoonSeptember24-26,2021inSanDiego,California.
>
>
>
>
> The form where the radio buttons read correctly.  The section reading
> “In-Person Registration - All Weekend ($70.00)” reads correctly as well, but
> what should I tell them about what’s going on. Narrator shows each word as a
> separate element by the way.
>
>
>
> Take care.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali




Re: NVDA and Edge Chromium

 

On Sat, May 15, 2021 at 03:13 PM, Gene wrote:
What kind of interface is it now?
-
I just had to look this up myself.  It seems that the terminology for this little interface is "flyout menu."  And it makes sense, in that it is much like a dropdown menu, but triggered by a button instead and with elements not characteristic of menus proper, but dialogs or other controls.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


Re: NVDA and Edge Chromium

Chris Shook
 

Hi,
I just wanted to thank everyone for their help and advice with Edge Chromium.
Thanks to you all, I can use it, even if it is not as well as I'd like.
I appreciate all your help.
Chris


Re: words with no spaces on this web page?

Gene
 

I don’t know if there is a way, such as an add-on, to skip blank lines.  But blank lines should be shown .  Not doing so means incorrect copy and paste and it also doesn’t give a true representation of what is on screen.  It may be that you could have a setting to show paragraphs or not when in browse mode, but showing them should be a choice and it should be the default.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: zahra
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 6:26 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?
 
but i really hate blank lines especially when i have problems with
blank lines using Say all and skim reading enabled.
i thought that web pages have not blank lines at all and i was glad!
in notepad++, i find an option that removes all empty lines or blank
line and i really love it.
i wish that no book, no article, no web page or any email have not
blank lines at all!
for me, if nvda causes disappearing blank lines, i really love it and
appreciate it!

On 5/20/21, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
> Thinking about what I wrote in my quoted message below, why does NVDA browse
> mode not show blank lines where paragraphs occur?  This would make it
> unnecessary to turn off browse mode to correctly copy text.  And, since I
> would think most blind people don’t know this is a problem in the first
> place, my guess is that a lot of blind people routinely send incorrectly
> formatted text to sighted people.
>
> Gene
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gene
> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 4:20 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?
>
> When I send information to sighted people that is more than a few lines,
> such as an article or an excerpt of an article that is long enough to amount
> to something, I copy it with browse mode off.  If you check, you will see
> that no paragraph indications are present in the browse mode representation
> of a page.  You can down arrow through an article and you won’t see blank
> lines.  If you copy text with browse mode off, you will see blank lines
> where paragraphs occur.
>
> I’m not discussing this to be argumentative but it is important to know
> this.  Sighted people find it very difficult reading long blocs of text with
> no paragraph breaks.  For some reason, it is visually very difficult.  Also,
> you want to send text in a standard format and not appear as though you or
> your equipment is in some way deficient to a sighted reader.  the reader
> won’t know that the screen-reader is causing the problem.  All they will
> know is that they are being sent incorrectly formatted text.
>
> In addition, as I said, in this specific instance, copying the text with
> browse mode off and pasting it into Notepad produces text with proper
> spacing.
>
> Gene
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gene
> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 4:05 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?
>
> When you are in browse mode, it copies from the browse mode buffer.  You
> need to have browse mode off to copy directly from the page.
>
> Gene
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sarah k Alawami
> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 3:20 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?
>
> Actually, when I copied the example, I was in browse mode. So it copied
> straight from the website to the email.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Gene
> <gsasner@...>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 11:46:43 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?
>
> I just tried copying and pasting the text while in browse mode and there
> were no spaces.  I don’t know if this would be an accessibility problem.  If
> an incorrect carachter is being used, it may be but it may be that, whatever
> the case, NVDA should be made to recognize the carachter.  It may be used
> elsewhere.
>
> Gene
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gene
> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 1:41 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?
>
> If you follow the resend confirmation link, you will see the page being
> discussed.  I’m saying this as a general comment to anyone.  Try things if
> they aren’t dangerous.  You may find the solution to problems or you may be
> able to do something you are attempting.
>
> In this case, I thought I might see some sort of registration but the page
> came up.  Either way, I didn’t think following the link would be dangerous.
>
> I saw the text with no spaces but if I turn off browse mode, select all and
> paste it to the clipboard and paste it into Notepad, the spaces are
> present.
>
> Evidently, the site is using a nonstandard carachter for space which NVDA
> doesn’t recognize but which is recognized by the browser.
>
> Gene
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sarah k Alawami
> Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 11:14 PM
> To: Nvda List
> Subject: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?
>
> Hello. You can access this web page  to see what I’m talking about. When I
> explore the page, I get words with no spaces, yet the sighted person sees
> words with spaces. I’ve been in touch with the expo guys, and they have been
> in touch with their developers who did this form and the site, and they
> suggested I use chrome, that failed, and brave failed. Here is an example of
> what I’m seeing.
>
>
>
>
>
> ThankyouforyourinterestinparticipatinginFlightSimExpoonSeptember24-26,2021inSanDiego,California.
>
>
>
>
> The form where the radio buttons read correctly.  The section reading
> “In-Person Registration - All Weekend ($70.00)” reads correctly as well, but
> what should I tell them about what’s going on. Narrator shows each word as a
> separate element by the way.
>
>
>
> Take care.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali





Re: words with no spaces on this web page?

 

but i really hate blank lines especially when i have problems with
blank lines using Say all and skim reading enabled.
i thought that web pages have not blank lines at all and i was glad!
in notepad++, i find an option that removes all empty lines or blank
line and i really love it.
i wish that no book, no article, no web page or any email have not
blank lines at all!
for me, if nvda causes disappearing blank lines, i really love it and
appreciate it!

On 5/20/21, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:
Thinking about what I wrote in my quoted message below, why does NVDA browse
mode not show blank lines where paragraphs occur? This would make it
unnecessary to turn off browse mode to correctly copy text. And, since I
would think most blind people don’t know this is a problem in the first
place, my guess is that a lot of blind people routinely send incorrectly
formatted text to sighted people.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 4:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?

When I send information to sighted people that is more than a few lines,
such as an article or an excerpt of an article that is long enough to amount
to something, I copy it with browse mode off. If you check, you will see
that no paragraph indications are present in the browse mode representation
of a page. You can down arrow through an article and you won’t see blank
lines. If you copy text with browse mode off, you will see blank lines
where paragraphs occur.

I’m not discussing this to be argumentative but it is important to know
this. Sighted people find it very difficult reading long blocs of text with
no paragraph breaks. For some reason, it is visually very difficult. Also,
you want to send text in a standard format and not appear as though you or
your equipment is in some way deficient to a sighted reader. the reader
won’t know that the screen-reader is causing the problem. All they will
know is that they are being sent incorrectly formatted text.

In addition, as I said, in this specific instance, copying the text with
browse mode off and pasting it into Notepad produces text with proper
spacing.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 4:05 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?

When you are in browse mode, it copies from the browse mode buffer. You
need to have browse mode off to copy directly from the page.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 3:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?

Actually, when I copied the example, I was in browse mode. So it copied
straight from the website to the email.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Gene
<gsasner@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 11:46:43 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?

I just tried copying and pasting the text while in browse mode and there
were no spaces. I don’t know if this would be an accessibility problem. If
an incorrect carachter is being used, it may be but it may be that, whatever
the case, NVDA should be made to recognize the carachter. It may be used
elsewhere.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 1:41 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?

If you follow the resend confirmation link, you will see the page being
discussed. I’m saying this as a general comment to anyone. Try things if
they aren’t dangerous. You may find the solution to problems or you may be
able to do something you are attempting.

In this case, I thought I might see some sort of registration but the page
came up. Either way, I didn’t think following the link would be dangerous.

I saw the text with no spaces but if I turn off browse mode, select all and
paste it to the clipboard and paste it into Notepad, the spaces are
present.

Evidently, the site is using a nonstandard carachter for space which NVDA
doesn’t recognize but which is recognized by the browser.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 11:14 PM
To: Nvda List
Subject: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?

Hello. You can access this web page to see what I’m talking about. When I
explore the page, I get words with no spaces, yet the sighted person sees
words with spaces. I’ve been in touch with the expo guys, and they have been
in touch with their developers who did this form and the site, and they
suggested I use chrome, that failed, and brave failed. Here is an example of
what I’m seeing.





ThankyouforyourinterestinparticipatinginFlightSimExpoonSeptember24-26,2021inSanDiego,California.




The form where the radio buttons read correctly. The section reading
“In-Person Registration - All Weekend ($70.00)” reads correctly as well, but
what should I tell them about what’s going on. Narrator shows each word as a
separate element by the way.



Take care.






--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


Re: words with no spaces on this web page?

Gene
 

Thinking about what I wrote in my quoted message below, why does NVDA browse mode not show blank lines where paragraphs occur?  This would make it unnecessary to turn off browse mode to correctly copy text.  And, since I would think most blind people don’t know this is a problem in the first place, my guess is that a lot of blind people routinely send incorrectly formatted text to sighted people.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 4:20 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?
 
When I send information to sighted people that is more than a few lines, such as an article or an excerpt of an article that is long enough to amount to something, I copy it with browse mode off.  If you check, you will see that no paragraph indications are present in the browse mode representation of a page.  You can down arrow through an article and you won’t see blank lines.  If you copy text with browse mode off, you will see blank lines where paragraphs occur. 
 
I’m not discussing this to be argumentative but it is important to know this.  Sighted people find it very difficult reading long blocs of text with no paragraph breaks.  For some reason, it is visually very difficult.  Also, you want to send text in a standard format and not appear as though you or your equipment is in some way deficient to a sighted reader.  the reader won’t know that the screen-reader is causing the problem.  All they will know is that they are being sent incorrectly formatted text.
 
In addition, as I said, in this specific instance, copying the text with browse mode off and pasting it into Notepad produces text with proper spacing. 
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 4:05 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?
 
When you are in browse mode, it copies from the browse mode buffer.  You need to have browse mode off to copy directly from the page.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 3:20 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?
 
Actually, when I copied the example, I was in browse mode. So it copied straight from the website to the email.
 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Gene <gsasner@...>
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 11:46:43 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?
 
I just tried copying and pasting the text while in browse mode and there were no spaces.  I don’t know if this would be an accessibility problem.  If an incorrect carachter is being used, it may be but it may be that, whatever the case, NVDA should be made to recognize the carachter.  It may be used elsewhere.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 1:41 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?
 
If you follow the resend confirmation link, you will see the page being discussed.  I’m saying this as a general comment to anyone.  Try things if they aren’t dangerous.  You may find the solution to problems or you may be able to do something you are attempting. 
 
In this case, I thought I might see some sort of registration but the page came up.  Either way, I didn’t think following the link would be dangerous. 
 
I saw the text with no spaces but if I turn off browse mode, select all and paste it to the clipboard and paste it into Notepad, the spaces are present.
 
Evidently, the site is using a nonstandard carachter for space which NVDA doesn’t recognize but which is recognized by the browser. 
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 11:14 PM
Subject: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?
 

Hello. You can access this web page  to see what I’m talking about. When I explore the page, I get words with no spaces, yet the sighted person sees words with spaces. I’ve been in touch with the expo guys, and they have been in touch with their developers who did this form and the site, and they suggested I use chrome, that failed, and brave failed. Here is an example of what I’m seeing.

 

 

ThankyouforyourinterestinparticipatinginFlightSimExpoonSeptember24-26,2021inSanDiego,California.

 

The form where the radio buttons read correctly.  The section reading “In-Person Registration - All Weekend ($70.00)” reads correctly as well, but what should I tell them about what’s going on. Narrator shows each word as a separate element by the way.

 

Take care.


Re: words with no spaces on this web page?

Gene
 

When I send information to sighted people that is more than a few lines, such as an article or an excerpt of an article that is long enough to amount to something, I copy it with browse mode off.  If you check, you will see that no paragraph indications are present in the browse mode representation of a page.  You can down arrow through an article and you won’t see blank lines.  If you copy text with browse mode off, you will see blank lines where paragraphs occur. 
 
I’m not discussing this to be argumentative but it is important to know this.  Sighted people find it very difficult reading long blocs of text with no paragraph breaks.  For some reason, it is visually very difficult.  Also, you want to send text in a standard format and not appear as though you or your equipment is in some way deficient to a sighted reader.  the reader won’t know that the screen-reader is causing the problem.  All they will know is that they are being sent incorrectly formatted text.
 
In addition, as I said, in this specific instance, copying the text with browse mode off and pasting it into Notepad produces text with proper spacing. 
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 4:05 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?
 
When you are in browse mode, it copies from the browse mode buffer.  You need to have browse mode off to copy directly from the page.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 3:20 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?
 
Actually, when I copied the example, I was in browse mode. So it copied straight from the website to the email.
 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Gene <gsasner@...>
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 11:46:43 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?
 
I just tried copying and pasting the text while in browse mode and there were no spaces.  I don’t know if this would be an accessibility problem.  If an incorrect carachter is being used, it may be but it may be that, whatever the case, NVDA should be made to recognize the carachter.  It may be used elsewhere.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 1:41 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?
 
If you follow the resend confirmation link, you will see the page being discussed.  I’m saying this as a general comment to anyone.  Try things if they aren’t dangerous.  You may find the solution to problems or you may be able to do something you are attempting. 
 
In this case, I thought I might see some sort of registration but the page came up.  Either way, I didn’t think following the link would be dangerous. 
 
I saw the text with no spaces but if I turn off browse mode, select all and paste it to the clipboard and paste it into Notepad, the spaces are present.
 
Evidently, the site is using a nonstandard carachter for space which NVDA doesn’t recognize but which is recognized by the browser. 
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 11:14 PM
Subject: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?
 

Hello. You can access this web page  to see what I’m talking about. When I explore the page, I get words with no spaces, yet the sighted person sees words with spaces. I’ve been in touch with the expo guys, and they have been in touch with their developers who did this form and the site, and they suggested I use chrome, that failed, and brave failed. Here is an example of what I’m seeing.

 

 

ThankyouforyourinterestinparticipatinginFlightSimExpoonSeptember24-26,2021inSanDiego,California.

 

The form where the radio buttons read correctly.  The section reading “In-Person Registration - All Weekend ($70.00)” reads correctly as well, but what should I tell them about what’s going on. Narrator shows each word as a separate element by the way.

 

Take care.


Re: words with no spaces on this web page?

Gene
 

When you are in browse mode, it copies from the browse mode buffer.  You need to have browse mode off to copy directly from the page.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 3:20 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?
 
Actually, when I copied the example, I was in browse mode. So it copied straight from the website to the email.
 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Gene <gsasner@...>
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 11:46:43 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?
 
I just tried copying and pasting the text while in browse mode and there were no spaces.  I don’t know if this would be an accessibility problem.  If an incorrect carachter is being used, it may be but it may be that, whatever the case, NVDA should be made to recognize the carachter.  It may be used elsewhere.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 1:41 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?
 
If you follow the resend confirmation link, you will see the page being discussed.  I’m saying this as a general comment to anyone.  Try things if they aren’t dangerous.  You may find the solution to problems or you may be able to do something you are attempting. 
 
In this case, I thought I might see some sort of registration but the page came up.  Either way, I didn’t think following the link would be dangerous. 
 
I saw the text with no spaces but if I turn off browse mode, select all and paste it to the clipboard and paste it into Notepad, the spaces are present.
 
Evidently, the site is using a nonstandard carachter for space which NVDA doesn’t recognize but which is recognized by the browser. 
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 11:14 PM
Subject: [nvda] words with no spaces on this web page?
 

Hello. You can access this web page  to see what I’m talking about. When I explore the page, I get words with no spaces, yet the sighted person sees words with spaces. I’ve been in touch with the expo guys, and they have been in touch with their developers who did this form and the site, and they suggested I use chrome, that failed, and brave failed. Here is an example of what I’m seeing.

 

 

ThankyouforyourinterestinparticipatinginFlightSimExpoonSeptember24-26,2021inSanDiego,California.

 

The form where the radio buttons read correctly.  The section reading “In-Person Registration - All Weekend ($70.00)” reads correctly as well, but what should I tell them about what’s going on. Narrator shows each word as a separate element by the way.

 

Take care.


Re: words with no spaces on this web page?

Patrick Le Baudour
 

Another possibility is that while parsing, it create implicit elements isolating stuff between two comment tags. With a display style inline-block, lone spaces are discarded but other elements margin and padding are enough to look like spaces on display.
If so, it probably messes up copy-paste even for sighted readers, though, so it could be considered a brave bug, even if that code is really unexpected.



-- Patrick


Re: words with no spaces on this web page?

Luke Davis
 

Sarah k Alawami wrote:

To a sighted person, spaces do appear. I will probably email them and ask them to take the empty elements out and replace them with spaces. We will see what
They don't need to replace them with anything. The spaces they need are already there.
Their just being damaged by having empty comments on either side of them.

They should remove all cases of:

<!-- -->

They do that, and this problem goes away.


Luke

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