Date   

Re: Is Oracle Data Management screen-reader accessible?

Arlene
 

Thanks, I never heard of this piece of softwhere.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Brian Vogel
Sent: May 24, 2021 1:01 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is Oracle Data Management screen-reader accessible?

 

Arlene,

I've updated the topic.  Don't bury the lede, as they say!

I don't know whether this specific piece of software is accessible with NVDA, JAWS, or Narrator.  Someone else almost certainly will.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 

 


Re: Is Oracle Data Management screen-reader accessible?

 

Arlene,

I've updated the topic.  Don't bury the lede, as they say!

I don't know whether this specific piece of software is accessible with NVDA, JAWS, or Narrator.  Someone else almost certainly will.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Keyboard not acting normal

 

It was after someone mentioned spillage that it occurred to me it
could be the culprit.
Sorry for the inconvenience.

On 5/24/21, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
Nevzat,

The fact that you had a spill was your most likely answer to begin with.

This was a vital piece of diagnostic information that should not have been
omitted.  All the other speculation likely would not have occurred had this
been mentioned.

--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.
The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression,
which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the
clearest indicator of who you are.

~ Brian Vogel





--
Nevzat Adil
Library of Congress Certified
Literary Braille Proofreader
C: 512 502 4403
e-mail: nevzatadil@gmail.com
Facebook: m.facebook.com/LiteraryBrailleProofreader


Is Oracle Data Management screen-reader accessible?

Arlene
 

Here is the question a friend asked about a job she’s applying for. Here’s the e-mail with the correct spelling.

Hello, all.

I’m seeking work with t tech as a customer service representative. They use oracle data management software. Is this accessible with either jaws or N V D a? Thanks so much and have a great day. This person called Freedom Scientific and they told her to call the Oracle company. I don’t think they have an idea what Jaws or any screen reader is. Would NVDA work with it?

 

Sent from

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: Keyboard not acting normal

 

Nevzat,

         The fact that you had a spill was your most likely answer to begin with.
     
          This was a vital piece of diagnostic information that should not have been omitted.  All the other speculation likely would not have occurred had this been mentioned.

--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Keyboard not acting normal

 

On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 02:06 PM, Nevzat Adil wrote:
Now only the arrows do not work right, but I imagine
after a while they'll start working, too when all is dry.
-
If it was plain tea you do have some hope.  If it was tea with milk and/or sugar, don't hold your breath.

Anything other than a water spill is generally "certain death" for a laptop keyboard.  And I don't say that to be "Debbie Downer" but because of long experience.  You may end up having to use an external keyboard and/or getting the keyboard replaced.

I hope you luck out.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Keyboard not acting normal

Jackie
 

When I did adaptive technology in a previous life, I always said
blindies & keyboards don't mix well. Truthfully, sighted folks &
keyboards don't mix well either.

On 5/24/21, Nevzat Adil <nevzatadil@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,

Thank you so much for the leads.
Obviously is the keyboard, because when I attached another one to my
HP laptop all is fine.
Yesterday I had a teacup next to my laptop with very little liquid at
the bottom and having forgotten it was there I knocked it and the
liquid went to the bottom of my laptop. I dried both the bottom of the
laptop and the desk immediately but obviously some got inside the
keyboard.
Many keys did not work properly at the beginning, but later they began
acting right. Now only the arrows do not work right, but I imagine
after a while they'll start working, too when all is dry.


On 5/24/21, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@gmail.com> wrote:
What keyboard is it.

Could be drivers, could be windows could be anything.

Firstly clean the board.

I know some boards can get a bit sticky at times.

I ended up using a vacuum with a small attachment and doing a gentle
suck over the board.

I also turned it up side down and gave it a really good shake over a
desktop and vacuumming that and the issues I have had are a lot less.

As I have a skin condition where skin tends to shed a lot my board does
need regular clearing of extras.

The next thing I'd check if wired is the condition of the wire, I have
had broken wires before.

Also I'd check the condition of the board, while mechanicals may not
have a high failure rate membranes could simply be warn out.

If this is wireless, then if it doesn't work, swapping out the power
cells wouldn't go a miss.

Next depending what it is, doing a factory reset on it followed by a
firmware refresh wouldn't go a miss at all if you have that capability.

On the computer side, I'd then check and update the latest drivers from
the manufacturer site.

Both for the keyboard and if its on usb the usb controlers though that
may need latest latest chhipset drivers though devices will generally
work without those.

I can't speak for logitech but setpoint and logitech options have not
had updates in a while now.

For microsoft their mouse keyboard centre doesn't update much but there
are updates from time to time.

Windows update may have a generic update in optionals or simply there is
a third party update for it.

Usually generic boards don't need software, firmware or drivers though.

Next, I'd run any bios and hardware firmware updates on your system in
case its an input issue, note you may allready have the latest updates
generally.

Next, I'd go through the standard sfc and dism checks followed by an
entire reformat though if you need to do the last 3 steps then its
probably worse than that.

Run a virus scan to but again you would have more issues than a board.

Most likely its the keyboard.

Start from the top and move down and down and down the list till the
reformat part.

As a test, try a different board and try that board on anothr system.

If it fails then skip to the end of this list and replace the board.



On 25/05/2021 4:05 am, Nevzat Adil wrote:
Hi Group,

My keyboard has not been acting normal since yesterday.
I cannot use the arrow keys. Only the left arrow key moves.
At first the NVDA key did not work but later misteriously started to
work. I rebooted a few times hoping itcorrect itself I am having a
hard time writing this message.
Any ideas why this is happening and how to correct this?
.
will corect





--
Nevzat Adil
Library of Congress Certified
Literary Braille Proofreader
C: 512 502 4403
e-mail: nevzatadil@gmail.com
Facebook: m.facebook.com/LiteraryBrailleProofreader





--
Subscribe to a WordPress for Newbies Mailing List by sending a message to:
wp4newbs-request@freelists.org with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by
visiting the list page at http://www.freelists.org/list/wp4newbs
& check out my sites at www.brightstarsweb.com & www.mysitesbeenhacked.com


Re: Keyboard not acting normal

 

Hi all,

Thank you so much for the leads.
Obviously is the keyboard, because when I attached another one to my
HP laptop all is fine.
Yesterday I had a teacup next to my laptop with very little liquid at
the bottom and having forgotten it was there I knocked it and the
liquid went to the bottom of my laptop. I dried both the bottom of the
laptop and the desk immediately but obviously some got inside the
keyboard.
Many keys did not work properly at the beginning, but later they began
acting right. Now only the arrows do not work right, but I imagine
after a while they'll start working, too when all is dry.

On 5/24/21, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@gmail.com> wrote:
What keyboard is it.

Could be drivers, could be windows could be anything.

Firstly clean the board.

I know some boards can get a bit sticky at times.

I ended up using a vacuum with a small attachment and doing a gentle
suck over the board.

I also turned it up side down and gave it a really good shake over a
desktop and vacuumming that and the issues I have had are a lot less.

As I have a skin condition where skin tends to shed a lot my board does
need regular clearing of extras.

The next thing I'd check if wired is the condition of the wire, I have
had broken wires before.

Also I'd check the condition of the board, while mechanicals may not
have a high failure rate membranes could simply be warn out.

If this is wireless, then if it doesn't work, swapping out the power
cells wouldn't go a miss.

Next depending what it is, doing a factory reset on it followed by a
firmware refresh wouldn't go a miss at all if you have that capability.

On the computer side, I'd then check and update the latest drivers from
the manufacturer site.

Both for the keyboard and if its on usb the usb controlers though that
may need latest latest chhipset drivers though devices will generally
work without those.

I can't speak for logitech but setpoint and logitech options have not
had updates in a while now.

For microsoft their mouse keyboard centre doesn't update much but there
are updates from time to time.

Windows update may have a generic update in optionals or simply there is
a third party update for it.

Usually generic boards don't need software, firmware or drivers though.

Next, I'd run any bios and hardware firmware updates on your system in
case its an input issue, note you may allready have the latest updates
generally.

Next, I'd go through the standard sfc and dism checks followed by an
entire reformat though if you need to do the last 3 steps then its
probably worse than that.

Run a virus scan to but again you would have more issues than a board.

Most likely its the keyboard.

Start from the top and move down and down and down the list till the
reformat part.

As a test, try a different board and try that board on anothr system.

If it fails then skip to the end of this list and replace the board.



On 25/05/2021 4:05 am, Nevzat Adil wrote:
Hi Group,

My keyboard has not been acting normal since yesterday.
I cannot use the arrow keys. Only the left arrow key moves.
At first the NVDA key did not work but later misteriously started to
work. I rebooted a few times hoping itcorrect itself I am having a
hard time writing this message.
Any ideas why this is happening and how to correct this?
.
will corect




--
Nevzat Adil
Library of Congress Certified
Literary Braille Proofreader
C: 512 502 4403
e-mail: nevzatadil@gmail.com
Facebook: m.facebook.com/LiteraryBrailleProofreader


IE Mode in MS-Edge for sites that only work with IE

 

What follows is not NVDA related, but given the amount of concern I'm seeing expressed about the demise of IE11 next June I consider the following to be a public service announcement.  Any in-depth discussion regarding IE Mode in Edge should occur on the Chat Subgroup.

I was concerned for users of Windows 10 Home because all of the official documentation I could find regarding IE Mode for Edge indicated it had to be enabled via Group Policy Editor, which Windows 10 Home doesn't have, and on a site by site basis.

It appears that for Windows 10 Home users (and I haven't checked on my Pro machine yet) there is an option in MS-Edge settings to allow you to turn on IE Mode in Edge.  Another tech I know posted the following, and it checks out:

If they load "edge://settings/defaultBrowser" that's bring them to the IE mode config page. On mine it's got IE mode enabled by default on pages that require it but had to toggle reload webpage on if it needs IE to on.

I had the exact same default configuration under Windows 10, Version 21H1, in Edge.  It appears to make sense to throw that toggle related to allowing reloading on if you do routinely need to access a site, or several sites, that are now IE-bound and are likely to remain so.  And I'd advise you to do it and try it out, now, as it may end up putting your minds at ease.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Keyboard not acting normal

 

What keyboard is it.

Could be drivers, could be windows could be anything.

Firstly clean the board.

I know some boards can get a bit sticky at times.

I ended up using a vacuum with a small attachment and doing a gentle suck over the board.

I also turned it up side down and gave it a really good shake over a desktop and vacuumming that and the issues I have had are a lot less.

As I have a skin condition where skin tends to shed a lot my board does need regular clearing of extras.

The next thing I'd check if wired is the condition of the wire, I have had broken wires before.

Also I'd check the condition of the board, while mechanicals may not have a high failure rate membranes could simply be warn out.

If this is wireless, then if it doesn't work, swapping out the power cells wouldn't go a miss.

Next depending what it is, doing a factory reset on it followed by a firmware refresh wouldn't go a miss at all if you have that capability.

On the computer side, I'd then check and update the latest drivers from the manufacturer site.

Both for the keyboard and if its on usb the usb controlers though that may need latest latest chhipset drivers though devices will generally work without those.

I can't speak for logitech but setpoint and logitech options have not had updates in a while now.

For microsoft their mouse keyboard centre doesn't update much but there are updates from time to time.

Windows update may have a generic update in optionals or simply there is a third party update for it.

Usually generic boards don't need software, firmware or drivers though.

Next, I'd run any bios and hardware firmware updates on your system in case its an input issue, note you may allready have the latest updates generally.

Next, I'd go through the standard sfc and dism checks followed by an entire reformat though if you need to do the last 3 steps then its probably worse than that.

Run a virus scan to but again you would have more issues than a board.

Most likely its the keyboard.

Start from the top and move down and down and down the list till the reformat part.

As a test, try a different board and try that board on anothr system.

If it fails then skip to the end of this list and replace the board.

On 25/05/2021 4:05 am, Nevzat Adil wrote:
Hi Group,

My keyboard has not been acting normal since yesterday.
I cannot use the arrow keys. Only the left arrow key moves.
At first the NVDA key did not work but later misteriously started to
work. I rebooted a few times hoping itcorrect itself I am having a
hard time writing this message.
Any ideas why this is happening and how to correct this?
.
will corect


Re: NVDA Satisfaction Survey 2021

 
Edited

On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 12:57 PM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote:
“Is the use primarily for Accessibility testing?” Does an answer “yes” mean that the person does not use NVDA for purposes of accessing everything on the computer but only while testing the accessibility of apps?
-
That's how I've always taken that question.

I think it's meant to differentiate feedback from people like myself, who use NVDA for accessibility testing purposes, but who do not depend on it in any way or use it as our primary, or even secondary, method of gaining access to "all things on the PC."

I'll be curious to see if my interpretation, and it looks like yours as well, is congruent with what the people who posed the question were trying to get at.

My feedback, though not frequent nor in the depth that some give, cannot possibly be as comprehensive as what might come from someone using a screen reader as "a daily driver" could likely provide.  You all can and will hit certain things I'm highly unlikely to at random.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Add-on Updater 21.05.1 #addonrelease

 

Hi all,

Add-on Updater 21.05.1 is now available with localization updates and making the add-on compatible with just released NVDA 2021.1 beta 1. Until further notice, you must install it manually from the following link (scroll down as to why):

https://github.com/josephsl/addonUpdater/releases/download/21.05.1/addonUpdater-21.05.1.nvda-addon

 

IMPORTANT: for now you MUST apply this update manually. If you do apply it manually, you must disable add-on update checks until further notice (NvDA Menu/Preferences/Settings/Add-on Updater, turn off “Automatically check for add-on updates”) as Add-on Updater may offer earlier releases that are not compatible with NvDA 2021.1. I’ll provide an update once Add-on Updater itself notices a new version of itself on its own, or if you have 21.05.1 manually installed, an earlier version of Add-on Updater is no longer offered. The alternative is modifying add-on manifests manually, something I advise many should not do because there are add-ons that will not work even if you do modify add-on manifest to make them “compatible”.

 

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: NVDA Satisfaction Survey 2021

Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

Quenting,

 

I filled in the survey.

 

The third question has me a bit puzzled!

 

“Is the use primarily for Accessibility testing?” Does an answer “yes” mean that the person does not use NVDA for purposes of accessing everything on the computer but only while testing the accessibility of apps?

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2021 5:26 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA Satisfaction Survey 2021

 

NV Access are pleased to invite you to participate in the NVDA Satisfaction Survey 2021. As in previous years, this is a simple, three-question survey, open to NVDA users and testers around the world: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1_6qHLmpFPvt4TwWUgVcuzHNxPI45BAdjGjvAD0GFVx8/edit?ts=60a394d2

 

Please do participate, and share with our thanks!

 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 


Virus-free. www.avast.com


Re: Accessible iPhone screen mirroring software with NVDA

mohammad suliman
 

Hello Sarah and all,

Thanks sis for the info! We tried reflector but we didn't quite like it because of some accessibility issues there. We much prefer Zoom for doing this but we actually searched for a mechanism to hear the Zoom call as well as Voiceover on the iPhone without having all participants see the iPhone screen.

Thanks again and have a nice week,
Mohammad

On Fri, 21 May 2021 at 21:02, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:

Try reflector. It works actually quite good for mirroring devices. I think I posted this already but not sure it made it onto the list.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of g melconian
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 6:36 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessible iPhone screen mirroring software with NVDA

 

Android devices  do this . 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Arlene
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 3:46 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessible iPhone screen mirroring software with NVDA

 

Hi, I really don’t think so. If you want to have that kind of thing. I think you’d be better off if you can find the right phone that will support NVDA. The I phone is apple.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: mohammad suliman
Sent: May 20, 2021 11:25 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Accessible iPhone screen mirroring software with NVDA

 

Hi all,

hope all of you are doing well,

 

I think the subject line pretty says it all. Is someone aware of an accessible screen mirroring software with NVDA to mirror the screen of the iPhone?

Does the software (if it exists) supports having voiceover sound come from the PC speakers?

 

Thanks for any kind of help you may have,

Mohammad

 


Re: Keyboard not acting normal

David Griffith
 

The first suggestion is to switch from NVDA to Windows Narrator Control windows and Enter and see if the problems persist.

If it does it becomes possible that this is a hardware fault - have you had any spillages?
To confirm this you could plug in an alternative keyboard - any USB will do for diagnostics and see if you regain your arrow keys then.
This would pretty much confirm a hardware fault if it clears the problems.
If you have had a spillage then a period of drying out may help but not guaranteed.

If Narrator interacts with the keyboard without problem then a clean re-install of NVDA would hopefully remove the problem.

David Griffith




on Windows 10.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nevzat Adil
Sent: 24 May 2021 17:06
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Keyboard not acting normal

Hi Group,

My keyboard has not been acting normal since yesterday.
I cannot use the arrow keys. Only the left arrow key moves.
At first the NVDA key did not work but later misteriously started to work. I rebooted a few times hoping itcorrect itself I am having a hard time writing this message.
Any ideas why this is happening and how to correct this?
.
will corect

--
Nevzat Adil
Library of Congress Certified
Literary Braille Proofreader
C: 512 502 4403
e-mail: nevzatadil@gmail.com
Facebook: m.facebook.com/LiteraryBrailleProofreader


Re: Keyboard not acting normal

 

Can you give us more details about both the computer and the keyboard?

Laptop or desktop?

Make and model of computer?

If desktop, "standard issue" keyboard that came with it or third party?

If third-party, make and model of the keyboard?

Presuming you're running Windows 10, check Settings, Update & Security, Windows Update Pane, View Update History to see what updates may have been applied, and at the correct timeframe to have possibly triggered the issue.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

 

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Keyboard not acting normal

 

Hi Group,

My keyboard has not been acting normal since yesterday.
I cannot use the arrow keys. Only the left arrow key moves.
At first the NVDA key did not work but later misteriously started to
work. I rebooted a few times hoping itcorrect itself I am having a
hard time writing this message.
Any ideas why this is happening and how to correct this?
.
will corect

--
Nevzat Adil
Library of Congress Certified
Literary Braille Proofreader
C: 512 502 4403
e-mail: nevzatadil@gmail.com
Facebook: m.facebook.com/LiteraryBrailleProofreader


locked Re: History with Jarte and NVDA

Gene
 

What do you want the program to do that it doesn’t now?  And what benefit is there for support?
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2021 9:39 AM
Subject: [nvda] History with Jarte and NVDA
 
Hello NVDA Group,

In 2007, I became aware of Jarte and NVDA when getting a refurbished
computer from a Texas-based organization called Computers for the
Blind. For those unfamiliar, Jarte was said to mimic the functions of
WordPad and go further. It was paired with NVDA on computers provided
by this organization.
Since 2019, Jarte has not released new updates nor supported its
latest updates. Is there a program that is now promoted to be as user
friendly for the vision impaired as Jarte was bestowed with such
acolades?

I assume NVDA and Jarte were favored by the above organization as each
offered a free version. Thanks in advance.

--
David C. Russell, Author





locked Re: the latest beta and all my addons

 

On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 11:07 AM, heike67 wrote:
Your post doesn't answer my question, if we'll be notified of updated addons?
-
As Chris said, I posted an admin notice about this several days ago, and just refreshed it now.  In addition, there was an actual topic from someone asking what you've asked, and the question was already answered.

The membership here is expected to be proactive and review topics, all of them, to see if something they're about to ask has already been asked and/or addressed before doing so.

I feel confident that as specific add-on manifest updates occur that will be announced here either by the add-on developer or their chosen messenger.

The one thing I absolutely do not want is an endless stream of, "Will my add-ons be updates?," and, "Will we be notified about it?" topics.  The answers are Yes and Yes.

This topic is now locked.  Please, everyone, don't flood the group with questions regarding add-on updates during this shake-out period!
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

 

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


locked Re: Does turning-on "BitLocker" cause any accessibility issues?

 

On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 08:48 AM, Richard B. McDonald wrote:
Soon, I will turn-on BitLocker.
-
All I'll say about this, and it's not accessibility related, is think long and hard about whether you really want or need full drive encryption.  Most of us don't, particularly for our personal computers.

As a repair tech I have seen more incidents where everything was lost and unrecoverable because of "encryption gone wrong" than I care to talk about.  And I'm not talking about ransomware encryption, but intentional drive encryption.  It can be a major stumbling block if recovery is needed.  It can also be an issue if it "burps" in any way.

Give due consideration to whether this is something needed or not.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

 

      ~ Brian Vogel

 

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