Date   

locked Re: Question about SAPI 4 version of eloquence

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Will it work with windows 10 or is it for older systems?



On 5/28/2021 7:16 AM, Josh Kennedy wrote:
also did you know that viavoice outloud sapi4 tts is available to download for free on IBM's publically available and open ftp site? It's buried inside of some folders on ftp.software.ibm.com ... But yes it is there for anybody to go grab and install and use. 


Re: NVDA's normal navigation mode

Gene
 

If it were a typing sound, it might make more sense.  But it is something like a high pitched camera sound you might heare on a phone.  It doesn’t have any association with a mode and I find the sound to be grating and annoying. 
 
Also, for those learning NVDA, I don’t think sound should be used.  Repetition is important in learning and hearing actual words would help those learning both become more aware of the terms and perhaps be more aware of when they are in which mode. 
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's normal navigation mode
 

The typing sound means focused mode, the bop noise means browse mode, it makes sense actually.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 7:47 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's normal navigation mode

 

NVDA space toggles browse mode off and on.  But if you are using sound for the notification, I don’t know which sound means what and I don’t like using sounds instead of speech in such ways.  I have NVDA set to say browse mode when it is on and focus mode when it is off.  If you want to change from sound to speech, I’ll explain how to do it. 

 

Also, by default, NVDA automatically changes from Browse Mode to focus mode and back again depending on what structures you move to in a web page and how you move.

 

I am very much against this being default behavior.  I think it is confusing to new students of NVDA and causes them to concentrate on learning when the automatic changes occur when what they should be concentrating on is when to use which mode.  Manually changing from mode to mode, in my opinion, helps create understanding and helps concentration be on what it should be on, not a secondary consideration.

 

You can change this behavior as well, if you want.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: anthony borg

Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 9:29 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's normal navigation mode

 

Hi gene

I am referring to the internet and brouser mode. Sorry if I wasn’t very clear with what I was asking.

Regards

 

Anthony

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 28 May 2021 14:45
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's normal navigation mode

 

It isn’t clear what you are asking about.  Are you asking about navigating using what in JAWS would be called the PC cursor?  You may be asking about the Internet and browse mode but that should be clarified. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: anthony borg

Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 3:18 AM

Subject: [nvda] NVDA's normal navigation mode

 

Hi can someone explain to me what is the commands to toggle on or off the NVDA’s normal navigation mode please?

Thanks in advance

 

Anthony


Re: nvda and latest windows update

 

On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 10:52 AM, tim wrote:
because even though everyone was told things may break. They seem to not get it!
-
And this is always the case with alpha and beta software.  The only difference this time is that we're virtually certain that specific types of breakages are going to occur in advance of their actually occurring.  There are times where this is common, and not just with NVDA.  When any kind of tectonic shift in underlying code occurs, this can and does happen.  It's a game of whack a mole for a couple of days to a couple of weeks as the next breakage pops up, gets reported, and then gets fixed.  Lather, rinse, repeat.

Things eventually settle back to normal.

But the move to NVDA 2021.1 requires the warning Bette Davis gave in All About Eve:  Fasten your seatbelts, it's going to be a bumpy night!

But that's all it's going to be.  We will have the morning after, too.

Comparing notes about what the specific bumps are can make sense at times, though.  Others, not so much.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: NVDA's normal navigation mode

 

On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 11:06 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
The typing sound means focused mode, the bop noise means browse mode, it makes sense actually.
-
I agree, and I prefer it this way.  There's enough verbosity to deal with otherwise.

But, like so many things, the default can be changed if one wishes it so.  Some default needs to be picked regardless of what it may be.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: NVDA's normal navigation mode

Sarah k Alawami
 

The typing sound means focused mode, the bop noise means browse mode, it makes sense actually.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 7:47 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's normal navigation mode

 

NVDA space toggles browse mode off and on.  But if you are using sound for the notification, I don’t know which sound means what and I don’t like using sounds instead of speech in such ways.  I have NVDA set to say browse mode when it is on and focus mode when it is off.  If you want to change from sound to speech, I’ll explain how to do it. 

 

Also, by default, NVDA automatically changes from Browse Mode to focus mode and back again depending on what structures you move to in a web page and how you move.

 

I am very much against this being default behavior.  I think it is confusing to new students of NVDA and causes them to concentrate on learning when the automatic changes occur when what they should be concentrating on is when to use which mode.  Manually changing from mode to mode, in my opinion, helps create understanding and helps concentration be on what it should be on, not a secondary consideration.

 

You can change this behavior as well, if you want.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 9:29 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's normal navigation mode

 

Hi gene

I am referring to the internet and brouser mode. Sorry if I wasn’t very clear with what I was asking.

Regards

 

Anthony

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 28 May 2021 14:45
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's normal navigation mode

 

It isn’t clear what you are asking about.  Are you asking about navigating using what in JAWS would be called the PC cursor?  You may be asking about the Internet and browse mode but that should be clarified. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 3:18 AM

Subject: [nvda] NVDA's normal navigation mode

 

Hi can someone explain to me what is the commands to toggle on or off the NVDA’s normal navigation mode please?

Thanks in advance

 

Anthony


Re: NVDA Remote for iOS (was RE: [nvda] NVDARemote)

Sarah k Alawami
 

Actually I would love that. I have most of the tools I need, via ssh, but I am the exception

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 6:35 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: NVDA Remote for iOS (was RE: [nvda] NVDARemote)

 

On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 07:39 AM, Mallard wrote:

I mean... Ever heard of providing support while on a train or the like, thus unlikely ot have a computer handy?


Sighted people can do that. I'd love to think that blind people will be able to do that too.

-
Other than by talking phone, no, not really.  I seldom see techs doing anything "heavy duty" remotely if not seated in front of a machine where all the tools they use are at their disposal or are actually sitting in front of "the patient."

I'd certainly not try to provide (sighted) remote support using my smartphone while traveling other than to talk someone through what they could try as DIY troubleshooting.  I can't do anything significant without a real keyboard.  I doubt I'm alone in being someone who does not have such on them, even in folding Bluetooth format, at all times.

Note well, all of the above is to address the misconception that sighted techs are routinely providing the kind of remote support that would typically require a computer and keyboard while out and about with only their smartphones.  I've never once encountered that.  That scenario is, in my experience and observation, about as realistic as most of the computer hacking in entertainment where everyone gets in with about 5 second's effort.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: nvda and latest windows update

Sarah k Alawami
 

I'm not having that issue, and I have the latest update, I think.

Windows 10 20H2 (64-bit) build 19042.985

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 1:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] nvda and latest windows update

Hi.

This is not a critical showstopper but it appears after the latest optional, for some reason nvda no longer can read some events.

That can include things like the time and some things like network devices, its not a big issue but if you depend on nvda to read the clock from systray you may want to leave this update alone.

Nvda reports uia and garbage errors with virtual buffers but the log doesn't always generate.

You can fix this briefly by restarting nvda but its almost like some events are not beeing able to be read in realtime or something.

One of the fixes with this latest update is to change some reader issues in general with some uia conditions, and I am sure its fixed something.

However some live updateable things are no longer updating.


Re: nvda and latest windows update

tim
 

I stated it that way, because even though everyone was told things may break. They seem to not get it!


On 5/28/2021 10:04 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 09:57 AM, tim wrote:
Is this with new NVDA out or previous version?
-
Excellent question.  And another opportunity to reiterate why it is so important to identify the actual versions on all things involved including the software itself, the add-on (if being discussed), and the version and build, including dot number, for Windows 10.

"The latest" is really meaningless, particularly in regard to Windows, in the age of update rollouts that occur in waves.  It is not at all uncommon for different build dot numbers to be out there concurrently, but very often different versions entirely, the latter for months at a time.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: NVDA's normal navigation mode

Chris Smart
 

Maybe you're asking about this?

Toggle browse/focus modes: NVDA+Space.
NVDA+space


On 2021-05-28 10:29 a.m., anthony borg wrote:

Hi gene

I am referring to the internet and brouser mode. Sorry if I wasn’t very clear with what I was asking.

Regards

 

Anthony

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 28 May 2021 14:45
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's normal navigation mode

 

It isn’t clear what you are asking about.  Are you asking about navigating using what in JAWS would be called the PC cursor?  You may be asking about the Internet and browse mode but that should be clarified. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: anthony borg

Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 3:18 AM

Subject: [nvda] NVDA's normal navigation mode

 

Hi can someone explain to me what is the commands to toggle on or off the NVDA’s normal navigation mode please?

Thanks in advance

 

Anthony


Re: NVDA's normal navigation mode

Gene
 

NVDA space toggles browse mode off and on.  But if you are using sound for the notification, I don’t know which sound means what and I don’t like using sounds instead of speech in such ways.  I have NVDA set to say browse mode when it is on and focus mode when it is off.  If you want to change from sound to speech, I’ll explain how to do it. 
 
Also, by default, NVDA automatically changes from Browse Mode to focus mode and back again depending on what structures you move to in a web page and how you move.
 
I am very much against this being default behavior.  I think it is confusing to new students of NVDA and causes them to concentrate on learning when the automatic changes occur when what they should be concentrating on is when to use which mode.  Manually changing from mode to mode, in my opinion, helps create understanding and helps concentration be on what it should be on, not a secondary consideration.
 
You can change this behavior as well, if you want.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 9:29 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's normal navigation mode
 

Hi gene

I am referring to the internet and brouser mode. Sorry if I wasn’t very clear with what I was asking.

Regards

 

Anthony

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 28 May 2021 14:45
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's normal navigation mode

 

It isn’t clear what you are asking about.  Are you asking about navigating using what in JAWS would be called the PC cursor?  You may be asking about the Internet and browse mode but that should be clarified. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: anthony borg

Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 3:18 AM

Subject: [nvda] NVDA's normal navigation mode

 

Hi can someone explain to me what is the commands to toggle on or off the NVDA’s normal navigation mode please?

Thanks in advance

 

Anthony


Re: NVDA's normal navigation mode

anthony borg
 

Hi gene

I am referring to the internet and brouser mode. Sorry if I wasn’t very clear with what I was asking.

Regards

 

Anthony

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 28 May 2021 14:45
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's normal navigation mode

 

It isn’t clear what you are asking about.  Are you asking about navigating using what in JAWS would be called the PC cursor?  You may be asking about the Internet and browse mode but that should be clarified. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 3:18 AM

Subject: [nvda] NVDA's normal navigation mode

 

Hi can someone explain to me what is the commands to toggle on or off the NVDA’s normal navigation mode please?

Thanks in advance

 

Anthony


Re: NVDA's normal navigation mode

Chris Smart
 

Please press NVDA+N, followed by H for "Help", and U for "User Guide." In the browser window which opens, navigate to the level 2 heading that says:

"5. Navigating with NVDA".

Start reading from that point.


Or, press NVDA+N, followed by H for "Help", and Q for "Commands, Quick Reference." In the browser window which opens, navigate to the level 2 heading that says "Navigating with NVDA." Start reading from there.


Chris



On 2021-05-28 4:18 a.m., anthony borg wrote:

Hi can someone explain to me what is the commands to toggle on or off the NVDA’s normal navigation mode please?

Thanks in advance

 

Anthony


locked Re: Question about SAPI 4 version of eloquence

Josh Kennedy
 

also did you know that viavoice outloud sapi4 tts is available to download for free on IBM's publically available and open ftp site? It's buried inside of some folders on ftp.software.ibm.com ... But yes it is there for anybody to go grab and install and use. 


Re: NVDA Remote for iOS (was RE: [nvda] NVDARemote)

 

On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 10:06 AM, tim wrote:
If my clients can not wait until I get to the tools I need to fix them. Then they can find another tech!
-
We (and I include me in that we) are getting rather away from the original topic and discussing meta-issues, which I suggest we stop doing other than when absolutely necessary.

With the above being said, and with my own intention to try to abide by it going forward, you've hit the nail on the head.  There really is a right way and a wrong way (however convenient it might seem) to handle technical issues.  "On the fly" is very seldom "the right way."

None of that has anything to do, really, with developing the capability of using NVDARemote via non-Windows platforms.  I feel somewhat responsible for leading this whole topic astray by even trying to delve into what perceived need(s) such was intended to address.  That was a bit meta on its own.

But you've raised a meta-issue that really needs to be considered when remote access of any type is being considered for adding into the mix, and that's the security problems it can (not always does, but can) bring with it and whether those are actually "worth it."  But only the actual parties involved can make those determinations, but they're often not made as an informed decision but in blissful ignorance.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: NVDA Remote for iOS (was RE: [nvda] NVDARemote)

tim
 

Only if your a fool to give support without the tools you really need and a remote on phone don't get it.

It was a fool that wanted that simpleness and a hacker made them pay for there it10ts! That move shut down a major pipeline.

If my clients can not wait until I get to the tools I need to fix them. Then they can find another tech! I don't do work that needs another tech to clean up.


On 5/28/2021 9:35 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 07:39 AM, Mallard wrote:
I mean... Ever heard of providing support while on a train or the like, thus unlikely ot have a computer handy?


Sighted people can do that. I'd love to think that blind people will be able to do that too.
-
Other than by talking phone, no, not really.  I seldom see techs doing anything "heavy duty" remotely if not seated in front of a machine where all the tools they use are at their disposal or are actually sitting in front of "the patient."

I'd certainly not try to provide (sighted) remote support using my smartphone while traveling other than to talk someone through what they could try as DIY troubleshooting.  I can't do anything significant without a real keyboard.  I doubt I'm alone in being someone who does not have such on them, even in folding Bluetooth format, at all times.

Note well, all of the above is to address the misconception that sighted techs are routinely providing the kind of remote support that would typically require a computer and keyboard while out and about with only their smartphones.  I've never once encountered that.  That scenario is, in my experience and observation, about as realistic as most of the computer hacking in entertainment where everyone gets in with about 5 second's effort.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: nvda and latest windows update

 

On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 09:57 AM, tim wrote:
Is this with new NVDA out or previous version?
-
Excellent question.  And another opportunity to reiterate why it is so important to identify the actual versions on all things involved including the software itself, the add-on (if being discussed), and the version and build, including dot number, for Windows 10.

"The latest" is really meaningless, particularly in regard to Windows, in the age of update rollouts that occur in waves.  It is not at all uncommon for different build dot numbers to be out there concurrently, but very often different versions entirely, the latter for months at a time.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: nvda and latest windows update

tim
 

Is this with new NVDA out or prevouse version? Because not seeing it with 2020.4

On 5/28/2021 4:48 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
Hi.

This is not a critical showstopper but it appears after the latest optional, for some reason nvda no longer can read some events.

That can include things like the time and some things like network devices, its not a big issue but if you depend on nvda to read the clock from systray you may want to leave this update alone.

Nvda reports uia and garbage errors with virtual buffers but the log doesn't always generate.

You can fix this briefly by restarting nvda but its almost like some events are not beeing able to be read in realtime or something.

One of the fixes with this latest update is to change some reader issues in general with some uia conditions, and I am sure its fixed something.

However some live updateable things are no longer updating.






Re: NVDA Remote for iOS (was RE: [nvda] NVDARemote)

 

On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 07:39 AM, Mallard wrote:
I mean... Ever heard of providing support while on a train or the like, thus unlikely ot have a computer handy?


Sighted people can do that. I'd love to think that blind people will be able to do that too.
-
Other than by talking phone, no, not really.  I seldom see techs doing anything "heavy duty" remotely if not seated in front of a machine where all the tools they use are at their disposal or are actually sitting in front of "the patient."

I'd certainly not try to provide (sighted) remote support using my smartphone while traveling other than to talk someone through what they could try as DIY troubleshooting.  I can't do anything significant without a real keyboard.  I doubt I'm alone in being someone who does not have such on them, even in folding Bluetooth format, at all times.

Note well, all of the above is to address the misconception that sighted techs are routinely providing the kind of remote support that would typically require a computer and keyboard while out and about with only their smartphones.  I've never once encountered that.  That scenario is, in my experience and observation, about as realistic as most of the computer hacking in entertainment where everyone gets in with about 5 second's effort.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: NVDA Remote for iOS (was RE: [nvda] NVDARemote)

Simone Dal Maso
 

Well, I don't know if this app will become a paied app or free.
At this stage, the app works only with an external keyboard, connected via bluetooth.
There are still some bugs, but it promises well.

Il 28/05/2021 13:39, Mallard ha scritto:
Ever heard of providing support while on mobility? I mean... Ever heard of providing support while on a train or the like, thus unlikely ot have a computer handy?
Sighted people can do that. I'd love to think that blind people will be able to do that too.
I have an Android device; not Ios, but blessed be the dev of such an app!
Ciao,
Ollie
On 28/05/2021 00:10, William James wrote:

You are posing some very good questions on this topic.  I hope the developer of this app will step in and clarify his/her position on why they developed this app.

One thing I can definitely say: The possibilities are endless!  Where there’s a will, there’s a way.  No pun intended.

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

*From: *Brian Vogel <mailto:britechguy@...>
*Sent: *Thursday, May 27, 2021 6:05 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject: *Re: NVDA Remote for iOS (was RE: [nvda] NVDARemote)

On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 05:53 PM, William James wrote:

    A totally blind person could remote in using a Bluetooth keyboard
    with the iDevice and troubleshoot the issue.

-
The question then becomes:  How likely is such a scenario? Even more important:  How likely is it that anyone who would be willing and able to work with NVDA Remote will not have the native PC platform to do it with?

As I said, though, I have no skin in this game.  I'm just trying to understand the rationale.  Software in general is a major investment in time and money, and as a result it usually doesn't get developed unless there is an identified need first.
--

Brian *-*Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043

/I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are./

      ~ Brian Vogel


Re: NVDA's normal navigation mode

Gene
 

It isn’t clear what you are asking about.  Are you asking about navigating using what in JAWS would be called the PC cursor?  You may be asking about the Internet and browse mode but that should be clarified. 
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 3:18 AM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA's normal navigation mode
 

Hi can someone explain to me what is the commands to toggle on or off the NVDA’s normal navigation mode please?

Thanks in advance

 

Anthony

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