Date   

Re: Webex Accessibility Regression

David Goldfield
 

To add to what has already been said I have heard that automated testing only detects around 30% of all possible issues. In addition, while I agree that it would be ideal as well as nice if a company would perform manual Web testing with at least two screen readers it’s more important that their code complies with the WCAG standards, at least with the goal of achieving 2.1 AA compliance. If that goal can be met or at least if you can strive to achieve that goal then your site will work with any of today’s screen readers. Sure, there’s always a chance that a particular screen reader may, for example, temporarily have a bug where certain types of ARIA might not be properly handled. However, in a case like that that’s up to the screen reader developer and not the corporate Web development team to address. To be fair screen readers do address issues like this and that’s as it should be. In other words if your Web site is using proper code with good semantic markup then the developer has done his/her job. At that point if screen reader A works with it but screen reader B does not and if it’s a bug in that particular screen reader the corporate developer shouldn’t then be expected to write a hacky workaround to accommodate screen reader B’s bug. If that were to happen and screen reader B then addresses the bug, which screen reader B’s developers likely will if they become aware of said bug, the hacky workaround may actually wind up making things worse. Therefore, while it would be ideal for a QA team to perform manual testing with NVDA, JAWS, Narrator, Supernova, VoiceOver on Mac, VoiceOver on iOS and Talkback on Android the team might not have that amount of bandwidth. If they only test with just one screen reader I’m both impressed as well as satisfied. I’m speaking as a product manager who works on an accessibility team at a media and technology company and so I think I’m looking at this issue with what I hope is a balanced perspective.

 

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

JAWS Certified, 2019

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

 

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2021 10:52 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Webex Accessibility Regression

 

On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 03:46 AM, Sean Murphy wrote:

I like to inform you that Cisco does not test with NVDA.  When I work for them a couple years ago in their accessibility group I was the only one who used NVDA for testing.  You need to raise this with the accessibility@... mailer and really push the point.

-
And as much as I hate to be the naysayer on this, the NVDA group, the question is:  What point?

You can ask and advocate for testing with NVDA, and I think that would be a fine thing to advocate for, but no company is obligated to test specifically with NVDA, or specifically with JAWS, or specifically with Narrator.  Most companies are going to pick one, and only one, screen reader to test with, and be lucky if they have individuals truly competent with a screen reader if they're not a large enterprise (Cisco is, so they should have competent screen reader testers).

But I would not be surprised if even screen reader testing is now largely automated like a lot of other testing is, and "success" dictated by whether analysis of the speech logs has what they expected to be in them actually be in them.

The use of human testers (much like humans that do almost any sort of job) has been on the decrease even when I was still working in software development in the 1990s.  And more's the pity, because as Quentin recently pointed out on this very group, what humans actually do when faced with a given novel situation is very often very much at odds with what the developers presumed they would do and should do.  Determining how an actual person interacts with your software, including how they do things you never, ever thought anyone would do, is at the very heart of through testing.  And it happens far too little.

But I would never hold my breath that any company is doing accessibility testing with two screen readers, let alone three (or more).
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


locked Announcement Only: Speculative Discussion about Windows 11, or any in depth discussion of Windows, period. #adminnotice

 

As I expected, Microsoft is already backpedaling about the TPM requirements, and it's already in the tech press this morning that the PC Health Checker is giving inaccurate information and must be updated.
 
We have collectively been to this dance before.  When Microsoft makes an arbitrary change, like rebranding what was supposed to be the next feature update to Windows 10 as Windows 11, then rushes that announcement and push to market, everything they say for at least the first month is subject to change, often the complete opposite of what's originally stated, secondary to blowback from the embedded user base.
 
I strongly suggest that those interested in what Windows 11 will really end up requiring in the hardware realm keep your eye on the tech press and/or venues like the Windows 10 for Screen Reader Users group to see just how fast and furious the backpedaling and changes come from Microsoft in the coming weeks.
 
All of the above is precisely the reason why I am not going to allow endless discussions about Windows 11 on the NVDA group, ever, but particularly now.  It has nothing to do with what the group is about.  If folks want to have this kind of early speculation that's subject to change on a moment's notice, then the Chat Subgroup is where it belongs.

Discussions of Microsoft Windows are not germane to this group.  As our group description succinctly states:
The central purpose of this group is discussing how to use NVDA.  This includes configuring NVDA's settings or familiarizing oneself with its modes and commands.  Discussions about which programs are accessible using NVDA, NVDA add-ons, NVDA tutorials and documentation, and configuring synthesizers or Braille displays for use with NVDA are also permitted.

This topic is now locked.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Webex Accessibility Regression

 

On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 03:46 AM, Sean Murphy wrote:
I like to inform you that Cisco does not test with NVDA.  When I work for them a couple years ago in their accessibility group I was the only one who used NVDA for testing.  You need to raise this with the accessibility@... mailer and really push the point.
-
And as much as I hate to be the naysayer on this, the NVDA group, the question is:  What point?

You can ask and advocate for testing with NVDA, and I think that would be a fine thing to advocate for, but no company is obligated to test specifically with NVDA, or specifically with JAWS, or specifically with Narrator.  Most companies are going to pick one, and only one, screen reader to test with, and be lucky if they have individuals truly competent with a screen reader if they're not a large enterprise (Cisco is, so they should have competent screen reader testers).

But I would not be surprised if even screen reader testing is now largely automated like a lot of other testing is, and "success" dictated by whether analysis of the speech logs has what they expected to be in them actually be in them.

The use of human testers (much like humans that do almost any sort of job) has been on the decrease even when I was still working in software development in the 1990s.  And more's the pity, because as Quentin recently pointed out on this very group, what humans actually do when faced with a given novel situation is very often very much at odds with what the developers presumed they would do and should do.  Determining how an actual person interacts with your software, including how they do things you never, ever thought anyone would do, is at the very heart of through testing.  And it happens far too little.

But I would never hold my breath that any company is doing accessibility testing with two screen readers, let alone three (or more).
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


NVDA lags while working with MS Word using unicode input for local languages

T. G. J. Rukmal
 

Hello everyone,

I'm Janitha from Sri Lanka and here we use unicode input to type in the local language called Sinhalese.

ESpeak synth has been doing a fine job of reading text typed in this language using unicode until  NVDA version 2020.3. Thereafter, even in V 2020.4, we, the Sri Lankan users of NVDA  came across a lag while typing in Sinhalese unicode in MS word and even in google docs while using both Chrome and Firefox browsers.

Upon investigating about the versions of windows used by the users who experienced the above, it was revealed that they were running different updates of Windows 10 and regardless of the windows 10 update they were running, the problem appears to have persisted.  When we inquired about the hardware specifications of the machines on which they have installed NVDA, their specs were well above the minimum requirements specified in NVAccess website.

1. Is this a known issue or is there a quick fix for this?
2. What additional information do we need to provide the developers to investigate further?

Thanks and best regards

-- 
T. J. Rukmal
First NVDA certified Expert from Sri Lanka
Co-founder Enable Lanka Foundation


Re: changing input gestures of an addon, which doesn't appear in the input gestures dialog.

abdul muhamin
 

Hello, thanks a lot, I did it!

 

 

From: Rui Fontes
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2021 3:46 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] changing input gestures of an addon, which doesn't appear in the input gestures dialog.

 

In that case, you will need to edit the .py file.

Look for gesture...

Be carefull to do not change anything else than the keystroke...


Rui Fontes

 

Às 11:31 de 24/06/2021, abdul muhamin escreveu:

Hello everyone, as the subject says, is there a possibility to change or edit an input gesture of an addon which doesn’t appear in the input gesture dialog? Actually I want to change lion live OCR gesture, because it is conflicting with the direct link addon, both the keys are same (alt NVDA l) and the lion OCR isn’t available in the input gestures dialog.

 

Regards:

Abdulmuhamin.

Content executive at

Blind Help Project

 


Re: No announcement when deleting a word

Rui Fontes
 

This issue was corrected in 2020.3...

I have tested with Word 2019 (365), WordPad, NotePad and composing this message in Thunderbird...


Rui Fontes


Às 13:59 de 25/06/2021, David Goldfield escreveu:

For the record I am not able to duplicate this issue using NVDA 2020.4 and Word 365 version 16.0.14026.20294. Windows 10 Pro version 21 H1.

In addition are you running any addons?

 

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

JAWS Certified, 2019

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

 

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Goldfield
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2021 8:55 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] No announcement when deleting a word

 

Jeff,

You haven’t specified which word processor you are using and which version of that word processor? Example: Word 2016, Word 365, Libreoffice 7.1.4 … Also, telling us that you have the current version of NVDA is not specific. What is the exact version number?

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

JAWS Certified, 2019

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

 

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jeff Samco
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2021 11:31 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] No announcement when deleting a word

 

I am using the current version of NVDA. When I delete a word using Ctrl + Delete I do not get the next word voiced as I do on a different computer. Just deleting by letter does announce the next letter. Where might I change this setting?

Thanks,

Jeff


Re: No announcement when deleting a word

David Goldfield
 

For the record I am not able to duplicate this issue using NVDA 2020.4 and Word 365 version 16.0.14026.20294. Windows 10 Pro version 21 H1.

In addition are you running any addons?

 

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

JAWS Certified, 2019

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

 

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Goldfield
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2021 8:55 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] No announcement when deleting a word

 

Jeff,

You haven’t specified which word processor you are using and which version of that word processor? Example: Word 2016, Word 365, Libreoffice 7.1.4 … Also, telling us that you have the current version of NVDA is not specific. What is the exact version number?

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

JAWS Certified, 2019

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

 

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jeff Samco
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2021 11:31 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] No announcement when deleting a word

 

I am using the current version of NVDA. When I delete a word using Ctrl + Delete I do not get the next word voiced as I do on a different computer. Just deleting by letter does announce the next letter. Where might I change this setting?

Thanks,

Jeff


Re: No announcement when deleting a word

David Goldfield
 

Jeff,

You haven’t specified which word processor you are using and which version of that word processor? Example: Word 2016, Word 365, Libreoffice 7.1.4 … Also, telling us that you have the current version of NVDA is not specific. What is the exact version number?

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

JAWS Certified, 2019

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

 

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jeff Samco
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2021 11:31 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] No announcement when deleting a word

 

I am using the current version of NVDA. When I delete a word using Ctrl + Delete I do not get the next word voiced as I do on a different computer. Just deleting by letter does announce the next letter. Where might I change this setting?

Thanks,

Jeff


Re: Is doing a completely clean install of windows 10 screen reader accessible?

Afik Souffir <afik.souffir@...>
 

 

Ok, will see. Thanks much

 

 

נשלח מהאפליקציה 'דואר' עבור Windows 10

 

מאת: Rui Fontes
נשלח: יום שישי 25 יוני 2021 14:24
אל: nvda@nvda.groups.io
נושא:
Re: [nvda] clean install of windows 10

 

Not only that, but the system will inform you...

 

Rui

 

Às 12:09 de 25/06/2021, Afik Souffir escreveu:

It'll just stop talking?

 

 

נשלח מהאפליקציה 'דואר' עבור Windows 10

 

מאת: Rui Fontes
נשלח: יום שישי 25 יוני 2021 14:08
אל: nvda@nvda.groups.io
נושא:
Re: [nvda] clean install of windows 10

 

Yes, you will know...

 

Rui Fontes

 

Às 12:01 de 25/06/2021, Afik Souffir escreveu:

And how do I know that the installation is started?

Now, it's downloading.

 

 

נשלח מהאפליקציה 'דואר' עבור Windows 10

 

מאת: Rui Fontes
נשלח: יום שישי 25 יוני 2021 13:55
אל: nvda@nvda.groups.io
נושא:
Re: [nvda] clean install of windows 10

 

It is accessible with Narrator.

NVDA will get you untill the installation is started, then you will need Narrator.

 

Rui Fontes

 

Às 11:38 de 25/06/2021, Afik Souffir escreveu:

 

Hi,

Just want to be sure

 

Is clean install of windows 10 – on the same laptop accessible for blind people? Maybe with NVDA or Narator?

 

Thanks much,

Help will be very appreciated.

 

Afik

 

 

נשלח מהאפליקציה 'דואר' עבור Windows 10

 

 

 

 


Re: Is doing a completely clean install of windows 10 screen reader accessible?

Rui Fontes
 

Not only that, but the system will inform you...


Rui


Às 12:09 de 25/06/2021, Afik Souffir escreveu:

It'll just stop talking?

 

 

נשלח מהאפליקציה 'דואר' עבור Windows 10

 

מאת: Rui Fontes
נשלח: יום שישי 25 יוני 2021 14:08
אל: nvda@nvda.groups.io
נושא:
Re: [nvda] clean install of windows 10

 

Yes, you will know...

 

Rui Fontes

 

Às 12:01 de 25/06/2021, Afik Souffir escreveu:

And how do I know that the installation is started?

Now, it's downloading.

 

 

נשלח מהאפליקציה 'דואר' עבור Windows 10

 

מאת: Rui Fontes
נשלח: יום שישי 25 יוני 2021 13:55
אל: nvda@nvda.groups.io
נושא:
Re: [nvda] clean install of windows 10

 

It is accessible with Narrator.

NVDA will get you untill the installation is started, then you will need Narrator.

 

Rui Fontes

 

Às 11:38 de 25/06/2021, Afik Souffir escreveu:

 

Hi,

Just want to be sure

 

Is clean install of windows 10 – on the same laptop accessible for blind people? Maybe with NVDA or Narator?

 

Thanks much,

Help will be very appreciated.

 

Afik

 

 

נשלח מהאפליקציה 'דואר' עבור Windows 10

 

 

 


Re: Is doing a completely clean install of windows 10 screen reader accessible?

Afik Souffir <afik.souffir@...>
 

It'll just stop talking?

 

 

נשלח מהאפליקציה 'דואר' עבור Windows 10

 

מאת: Rui Fontes
נשלח: יום שישי 25 יוני 2021 14:08
אל: nvda@nvda.groups.io
נושא:
Re: [nvda] clean install of windows 10

 

Yes, you will know...

 

Rui Fontes

 

Às 12:01 de 25/06/2021, Afik Souffir escreveu:

And how do I know that the installation is started?

Now, it's downloading.

 

 

נשלח מהאפליקציה 'דואר' עבור Windows 10

 

מאת: Rui Fontes
נשלח: יום שישי 25 יוני 2021 13:55
אל: nvda@nvda.groups.io
נושא:
Re: [nvda] clean install of windows 10

 

It is accessible with Narrator.

NVDA will get you untill the installation is started, then you will need Narrator.

 

Rui Fontes

 

Às 11:38 de 25/06/2021, Afik Souffir escreveu:

 

Hi,

Just want to be sure

 

Is clean install of windows 10 – on the same laptop accessible for blind people? Maybe with NVDA or Narator?

 

Thanks much,

Help will be very appreciated.

 

Afik

 

 

נשלח מהאפליקציה 'דואר' עבור Windows 10

 

 

 


Re: Is doing a completely clean install of windows 10 screen reader accessible?

Rui Fontes
 

Yes, you will know...


Rui Fontes


Às 12:01 de 25/06/2021, Afik Souffir escreveu:

And how do I know that the installation is started?

Now, it's downloading.

 

 

נשלח מהאפליקציה 'דואר' עבור Windows 10

 

מאת: Rui Fontes
נשלח: יום שישי 25 יוני 2021 13:55
אל: nvda@nvda.groups.io
נושא:
Re: [nvda] clean install of windows 10

 

It is accessible with Narrator.

NVDA will get you untill the installation is started, then you will need Narrator.

 

Rui Fontes

 

Às 11:38 de 25/06/2021, Afik Souffir escreveu:

 

Hi,

Just want to be sure

 

Is clean install of windows 10 – on the same laptop accessible for blind people? Maybe with NVDA or Narator?

 

Thanks much,

Help will be very appreciated.

 

Afik

 

 

נשלח מהאפליקציה 'דואר' עבור Windows 10

 

 


Golden Cursor Add-On is now compatible with NVDA 2021.1

Viny
 

Hi, Every one

I just want to report that Golden Curson Add-on (rersion 4.0) is incompatible with nvda 2021.1.

Great thanks to fix it!!

Have a nice day.


Re: Is doing a completely clean install of windows 10 screen reader accessible?

Afik Souffir <afik.souffir@...>
 

And how do I know that the installation is started?

Now, it's downloading.

 

 

נשלח מהאפליקציה 'דואר' עבור Windows 10

 

מאת: Rui Fontes
נשלח: יום שישי 25 יוני 2021 13:55
אל: nvda@nvda.groups.io
נושא:
Re: [nvda] clean install of windows 10

 

It is accessible with Narrator.

NVDA will get you untill the installation is started, then you will need Narrator.

 

Rui Fontes

 

Às 11:38 de 25/06/2021, Afik Souffir escreveu:

 

Hi,

Just want to be sure

 

Is clean install of windows 10 – on the same laptop accessible for blind people? Maybe with NVDA or Narator?

 

Thanks much,

Help will be very appreciated.

 

Afik

 

 

נשלח מהאפליקציה 'דואר' עבור Windows 10

 

 


Re: Is doing a completely clean install of windows 10 screen reader accessible?

Rui Fontes
 

It is accessible with Narrator.

NVDA will get you untill the installation is started, then you will need Narrator.


Rui Fontes


Às 11:38 de 25/06/2021, Afik Souffir escreveu:

 

Hi,

Just want to be sure

 

Is clean install of windows 10 – on the same laptop accessible for blind people? Maybe with NVDA or Narator?

 

Thanks much,

Help will be very appreciated.

 

Afik

 

 

נשלח מהאפליקציה 'דואר' עבור Windows 10

 


Is doing a completely clean install of windows 10 screen reader accessible?

Afik Souffir <afik.souffir@...>
 

 

Hi,

Just want to be sure

 

Is clean install of windows 10 – on the same laptop accessible for blind people? Maybe with NVDA or Narator?

 

Thanks much,

Help will be very appreciated.

 

Afik

 

 

נשלח מהאפליקציה 'דואר' עבור Windows 10

 


related, but somewhat o/t Musecore

Christopher Bartlett
 

My apologies if you've seen this elsewhere, but I'm looking for someone with experience using the Musescore program with NVDA.  I'm just starting and have run into a problem I don't know how to solve.  As this is not specifically NVDA related, you could contact me off list.
Thank you.

Christopher Bartlett


--
Christopher Bartlett


Re: changing input gestures of an addon, which doesn't appear in the input gestures dialog.

Rui Fontes
 

In my view, if you do not know wich .py file needs to be modified, is better to change the other keystroke conflicting using the Input gestures dialog...


If you want to try, normally you should change the __init__.py or addonName.py file...


Rui Fontes


Às 02:19 de 25/06/2021, abdul muhamin escreveu:

Which .pai file? There are many

 

 

From: Rui Fontes
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2021 3:46 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] changing input gestures of an addon, which doesn't appear in the input gestures dialog.

 

In that case, you will need to edit the .py file.

Look for gesture...

Be carefull to do not change anything else than the keystroke...


Rui Fontes

 

Às 11:31 de 24/06/2021, abdul muhamin escreveu:

Hello everyone, as the subject says, is there a possibility to change or edit an input gesture of an addon which doesn’t appear in the input gesture dialog? Actually I want to change lion live OCR gesture, because it is conflicting with the direct link addon, both the keys are same (alt NVDA l) and the lion OCR isn’t available in the input gestures dialog.

 

Regards:

Abdulmuhamin.

Content executive at

Blind Help Project

 


Re: Webex Accessibility Regression

Martin O'Sullivan
 

Hi I have the same issue Webex will no longer work with NVDA.


Re: Webex Accessibility Regression

Sean Murphy
 

I like to inform you that Cisco does not test with NVDA.  When I work for them a couple years ago in their accessibility group I was the only one who used NVDA for testing.  You need to raise this with the accessibility@... mailer and really push the point. There are still bugs I’ve seen two years ago that they haven’t fixed.  If you’re in a government USA then I would be using section 508 as a  leverage  to push this point.    

My experience is the part 

On 24 Jun 2021, at 12:34 am, kyleborah1234321@... wrote:

Hello all,

As a bit of an introduction, I have recently started a software developer job where I am consistently using Windows again after  trying to run far away from it for the past 6 years. We use WebEx for meetings and early last week (the week of the 14-18 of June 2021), The join a meeting screen has suddenly become inaccessible. This is the screen that lets you make sure you have your video and audio set up correctly before joining. NVDA sees the window, but can not see anything in it. If I perform OCR with NVDA+r, It says, "Content is not visible." I have received visual confirmation that the window is on the screen and looks okay. I can also access it with narrator. But NVDA doesn't work. I have tried launching NVDA under an admin account and with addons disabled, but nothing seems to work.
Obviously I can join from my phone, and I can get into the meetings with narrator, But I would really like this to work with NVDA like it used to.

Has anyone come across this? I tried to do some searching on the page here, but it doesn't seem you are able to search here on groups.io. Am I mistaken about this?

3481 - 3500 of 88871