Date   

Re: Having trouble with outlook while using NVDA.

Naveen Kumar M
 

Thank you for the update.

 

Regards,

Naveen

 

certification page

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2021 4:14 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Having trouble with outlook while using NVDA.

 

Hi Naveen,

 

I checked with Microsoft, and confirmed that this is a known issue.  It has been fixed in Office 365, but not yet in Office 2019.

 

Kind regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Thu, Jun 24, 2021 at 7:59 PM Naveen Kumar M <naveen.m@...> wrote:

Sorry Quentin, I missed this mail. I checked re installing the NVDA as well as reinstalling the MS office. For your information, I am using licensed version and Microsoft members also tried their level best. But, the issue hasn’t resolved.

 

Regards,

Naveen

 

 

certification page

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Crayton Benner via groups.io
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 7:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Having trouble with outlook while using NVDA.

 

Have you tried reinstalling nvda at all? 

On Monday, June 21, 2021, 09:15, Naveen Kumar M <naveen.m@...> wrote:

Dear Quentin,

 

Recently I have installed MS office 2019. If I open any mails which has meeting request in outlook app, outlook is automatically getting restart. This issue I having only while NVDA or Narrator running in my system. If I open meeting request mails in outlook app while JAWS is running, I am able to open without any issues. This issue 3 members are facing in my organization. Please let me know what I can do for this issue. Even if I open the meeting requests mail without screen reader, I am not facing any issue. My colleagues tried re installing the office 2019 as well as 2016. But, still the issue hasn’t resolved. Our IT team also tried their level best. But, they couldn’t.

 

Looking forward to your response,

 

Regards,

Naveen M

 

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Re: Is doing a completely clean install of windows 10 screen reader accessible?

Luke Davis
 

Arlene

Many computers come with a recovery partition of some sort, or a factory reset partition.

This is an area of the hard drive that you can boot from, that will let you restore the computer to the way it was when you bought it. Booting from that partition and using it will require sighted help--it usually involves pressing F12 while first turning the system on, and looking in the menu that comes up for some sort of recovery or factory reset sounding partition.

There is another option. Windows itself can do a reset, in which it wipes all userdata and settings, and sets itself back to factory defaults.

The latter has one good advantage: any upgrades you have done to Windows (like from 7 to 10) will be preserved. Oh, and it is accessible as far as I can remember from the last time I did it.

Luke

On Jun 26, Arlene wrote:

Hi there, If you wipe the whole thing clean? Do you have to set it all back up as though you bought the computer brand new?  I know this sounds stupid. Do
you have to set up all your Microsoft account?  Do you have to have a windows ten disk?  This computer came without one.  If I was to wipe my system Does
this Acer computer or any other windows computers come with windows  already in them? I hope I asked the right questions.


Re: Amateur programmer, looking to create accessible programs

Sam Bushman
 

Hey Arnold,

 

I didn’t write before because others on this list are much more qualified than I am.

However, since others didn’t focus on things I would mention I decided maybe my input would help as well.

 

When you write programs for the blind The following is way helpful:

 

If you use standard windows controls instead of custom controls screen readers have a much better ability to work well.

If you provide several ways to accomplish things in the app it’s much more helpful.

Meaning keyboard access to everything not just mouse access.

If you use standard tool tips for help.

If you make sure the tab key works well everywhere it’s much more helpful. Focusing on tab order in this case makes a huge difference.

Making sure to use text labels for things when graphics are used it’s helpful.

Meaning edit boxes with labels and other controls as well.

Making sure screens have text not just graphics is huge.

The more standard your windows screens are the easier it will be for us to use.

 

Some programmers actually have a setting in there software making much better access possible.

A great example of this is the Jarte application – it’s a simple word processor.

 

I could say much more but these ideas should get you started.

 

Thanks for thinking of us.

 

The point was made but I agree, we can test and help if you like also.

 

Sam

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Arnold Summers
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2021 5:55 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Amateur programmer, looking to create accessible programs

 

Joseph,

 

Your message was helpful, particularly the mentions of API's and GUI toolkits. It gives me something concrete to look into in the way of actual code. You gave me a lot to think about. Thank you! 

 

On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 5:00 PM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi all,

As Luke and others pointed out, there are lists dedicated to programming, and in case of NVDA specifically, there is NVDA Development list. I think both lists are good, but that won't solve the issue the original poster is looking into, and you can indeed create accessible GUI-based applications (although counterintuitive, NVDA is an accessible GUI-based application if you think about it). What I'm going to write comes from my experience as a programmer who spent years working on screen readers and have been advocating for accessibility and usability (like Luke, I'm blind, although I was a low vision user until my early teens, which was early 2000's):

As you may know, the first task of programming is looking for a problem to solve. The fact that you wish to write an app that is accessible is very notable, in that you may have found some issues you wish to solve by writing apps, along with looking at app design at the same time. So I'll assume you did your first task, so let's move onto design and accessibility aspects.

Accessibility is about designing products so it is approachable by different audiences (the task of actually using such products with help from assistive tools falls under "usability"). The question to ask when designing products with accessibility in mind is, "what are limitations and workarounds specific audiences need, and how can the product help bridge the gap that might be present for audiences?" For people with disabilities, the question falls under limitations of specific disabilities and tools that can expose your product functionality to specific audiences; for blind people, the obvious choice is using tools to help folks "see" screen content i.e. screen readers, magnifiers, color contrast, and so on; for deaf communities, using text to convey sounds, sign language output and what not. Then you would look for a way to make programs expose needed information so audiences (users) can use your product effectively, and one common scenario is using accessibility API's to communicate information to users of assistive technologies.

In GUI programming (something that's possible for blind people to do although with assistance if required), one would design data representation style (specific GUI controls for things such as text, forms, and many others). Although things may look colorful and intuitive for the majority (the term "majority" depends on language, country, and culture), without effort from humans and tools (along with mindset), the product would not be discoverable (wqord of mouth, review,s etc.), approachable (promotion, demos, etc.), and accessible (these three things must work together when accessibility is concerned, because people with disabilities are some of the most neglected communities when it comes to access to information (what I would term "information blackout"), although that is changing).

So to enhance how the product is seen by people with disabilities and to make them accessible (and usable), API's such as Microsoft Active Accessibility, UI Automation, IAccessible2 were created to help programmers design products with accessibility and usability in mind. These API's consist of at least three parts:

  1. Client/consumer: an assistive technology such as screen readers (including NVDA) is an accessibility client. The job of a client is to ask accessibility API's for information about a control a user is working on, and to perform specific actions required to help people use specific applications such as reading state changes.
  2. Server/producer: the application in question is a server because it serves clients by exposing crucial information for use by different assistive technologies. For screen readers, this means using text labels for graphical buttons, using facilities such as accessibility events to communicate activities such as screen content changes. How such info is communicated to users is the job of the client (assistive technology), and it is up to users as to what to do with information coming from the app.
  3. Accessibility bridge: API's such as MSAA and UIA serve as a bridge between servers (apps) and clients (assistive technologies). The job of accessibility API bridges is to serve as a "middle man" between users and apps by exposing server-side information (whatever the app says) in a way clients can understand, process, and present to users. At the same time, bridges accept interaction tasks (such as keyboard input) from users, communicates these facts to applications, and see what the app says.

A basic grasp of accessibility concepts is one of the steps involved in improving app accessibility (the first obvious step is understanding the culture the target audience comes from, a task you have accomplished well based on the original post). The next task is actually using assistive technologies and apps to better understand what folks are talking about. After that, it comes down to designing programs in a way that is accessible for diverse audiences such as adding labels for GUI controls and using accessibility API's to expose needed information (if using GUI toolkits, I recommend using ones known to have high accessibility marks such as wxWidgets and more recent versions of QT and WinUI/XAML). And don't forget to test your ideas with target audiences (testing, gathering feedback, etc.) early because it is more costly to "improve" accessibility later.

Before I close, one thing you may wish to ponder: if you think carefully about it, NVDA and other screen reader friends are sophisticated data processors. Their job is to gather needed information for blind people with help from facilities provided by the operating system + accessibility API's + apps + standards, process gathered information in a way suitable for presentation through multiple channels (speech, braille, sound, etc.), and presenting information to users. That's the core of screen readers, and when folks talk about screen reader development, we are talking about refining these elements (supporting newer accessibility standards, dealing with apps with no control labels, support for text-to-speech engines and braille displays, keeping an eye on operating system changes, etc.). Of course folks can customize screen readers to their liking (settings, code, add-ons, etc.). at the same time, app accessibility and usablity falls upon the responsibility of app developers, made better when they collaborate with users (this is why I always ask users to send feedback to developers to point out possible accessibility improvements).

Hope this helps a lot.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: Webex Accessibility Regression

Thomas N. Chan
 

I am sorry to say when it comes to cisco, they are a bit slack when it comes to accessibility for screen readers. 
but, if you want to make certain interface to work, you must really knock their head and push your question to the top senior support before some info will be send to the developer of that particular interface.

I really hope you got better experience than I do.



Regards,
Thomas N. Chan


On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 11:25 PM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 11:11 AM, David Goldfield wrote:
while it would be ideal for a QA team to perform manual testing with NVDA, JAWS, Narrator, Supernova, VoiceOver on Mac, VoiceOver on iOS and Talkback on Android the team might not have that amount of bandwidth. If they only test with just one screen reader I’m both impressed as well as satisfied. I’m speaking as a product manager who works on an accessibility team at a media and technology company and so I think I’m looking at this issue with what I hope is a balanced perspective.
-
My deepest thanks for this insight from someone who's currently "in the trenches."  It's exactly what I'd expect, as there are certain aspects of IT that fall into the category:
Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.    [In English:  The more things change, the more they remain the same.]

And we all know that ideals, any ideals, are very seldom met by we mere mortals.  A long deceased cousin of a dear deceased aunt of mine had a particularly salty way of putting it when people are wishing for something, particularly an ideal situation:  Wish in one hand and defecate in the other and see which gets full first.   I believe the readership knows the salty substitute for defecate.  That observation has stuck with me from the first moment I heard it, and I had to have been under 15 years old, because of the absolute truth of it.  Some things just ain't gonna happen.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Amateur programmer, looking to create accessible programs

Arnold Summers <arnoldsummerspbem@...>
 

Joseph,

Your message was helpful, particularly the mentions of API's and GUI toolkits. It gives me something concrete to look into in the way of actual code. You gave me a lot to think about. Thank you! 

On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 5:00 PM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi all,

As Luke and others pointed out, there are lists dedicated to programming, and in case of NVDA specifically, there is NVDA Development list. I think both lists are good, but that won't solve the issue the original poster is looking into, and you can indeed create accessible GUI-based applications (although counterintuitive, NVDA is an accessible GUI-based application if you think about it). What I'm going to write comes from my experience as a programmer who spent years working on screen readers and have been advocating for accessibility and usability (like Luke, I'm blind, although I was a low vision user until my early teens, which was early 2000's):

As you may know, the first task of programming is looking for a problem to solve. The fact that you wish to write an app that is accessible is very notable, in that you may have found some issues you wish to solve by writing apps, along with looking at app design at the same time. So I'll assume you did your first task, so let's move onto design and accessibility aspects.

Accessibility is about designing products so it is approachable by different audiences (the task of actually using such products with help from assistive tools falls under "usability"). The question to ask when designing products with accessibility in mind is, "what are limitations and workarounds specific audiences need, and how can the product help bridge the gap that might be present for audiences?" For people with disabilities, the question falls under limitations of specific disabilities and tools that can expose your product functionality to specific audiences; for blind people, the obvious choice is using tools to help folks "see" screen content i.e. screen readers, magnifiers, color contrast, and so on; for deaf communities, using text to convey sounds, sign language output and what not. Then you would look for a way to make programs expose needed information so audiences (users) can use your product effectively, and one common scenario is using accessibility API's to communicate information to users of assistive technologies.

In GUI programming (something that's possible for blind people to do although with assistance if required), one would design data representation style (specific GUI controls for things such as text, forms, and many others). Although things may look colorful and intuitive for the majority (the term "majority" depends on language, country, and culture), without effort from humans and tools (along with mindset), the product would not be discoverable (wqord of mouth, review,s etc.), approachable (promotion, demos, etc.), and accessible (these three things must work together when accessibility is concerned, because people with disabilities are some of the most neglected communities when it comes to access to information (what I would term "information blackout"), although that is changing).

So to enhance how the product is seen by people with disabilities and to make them accessible (and usable), API's such as Microsoft Active Accessibility, UI Automation, IAccessible2 were created to help programmers design products with accessibility and usability in mind. These API's consist of at least three parts:

  1. Client/consumer: an assistive technology such as screen readers (including NVDA) is an accessibility client. The job of a client is to ask accessibility API's for information about a control a user is working on, and to perform specific actions required to help people use specific applications such as reading state changes.
  2. Server/producer: the application in question is a server because it serves clients by exposing crucial information for use by different assistive technologies. For screen readers, this means using text labels for graphical buttons, using facilities such as accessibility events to communicate activities such as screen content changes. How such info is communicated to users is the job of the client (assistive technology), and it is up to users as to what to do with information coming from the app.
  3. Accessibility bridge: API's such as MSAA and UIA serve as a bridge between servers (apps) and clients (assistive technologies). The job of accessibility API bridges is to serve as a "middle man" between users and apps by exposing server-side information (whatever the app says) in a way clients can understand, process, and present to users. At the same time, bridges accept interaction tasks (such as keyboard input) from users, communicates these facts to applications, and see what the app says.

A basic grasp of accessibility concepts is one of the steps involved in improving app accessibility (the first obvious step is understanding the culture the target audience comes from, a task you have accomplished well based on the original post). The next task is actually using assistive technologies and apps to better understand what folks are talking about. After that, it comes down to designing programs in a way that is accessible for diverse audiences such as adding labels for GUI controls and using accessibility API's to expose needed information (if using GUI toolkits, I recommend using ones known to have high accessibility marks such as wxWidgets and more recent versions of QT and WinUI/XAML). And don't forget to test your ideas with target audiences (testing, gathering feedback, etc.) early because it is more costly to "improve" accessibility later.

Before I close, one thing you may wish to ponder: if you think carefully about it, NVDA and other screen reader friends are sophisticated data processors. Their job is to gather needed information for blind people with help from facilities provided by the operating system + accessibility API's + apps + standards, process gathered information in a way suitable for presentation through multiple channels (speech, braille, sound, etc.), and presenting information to users. That's the core of screen readers, and when folks talk about screen reader development, we are talking about refining these elements (supporting newer accessibility standards, dealing with apps with no control labels, support for text-to-speech engines and braille displays, keeping an eye on operating system changes, etc.). Of course folks can customize screen readers to their liking (settings, code, add-ons, etc.). at the same time, app accessibility and usablity falls upon the responsibility of app developers, made better when they collaborate with users (this is why I always ask users to send feedback to developers to point out possible accessibility improvements).

Hope this helps a lot.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: Amateur programmer, looking to create accessible programs

 

Hi all,

As Luke and others pointed out, there are lists dedicated to programming, and in case of NVDA specifically, there is NVDA Development list. I think both lists are good, but that won't solve the issue the original poster is looking into, and you can indeed create accessible GUI-based applications (although counterintuitive, NVDA is an accessible GUI-based application if you think about it). What I'm going to write comes from my experience as a programmer who spent years working on screen readers and have been advocating for accessibility and usability (like Luke, I'm blind, although I was a low vision user until my early teens, which was early 2000's):

As you may know, the first task of programming is looking for a problem to solve. The fact that you wish to write an app that is accessible is very notable, in that you may have found some issues you wish to solve by writing apps, along with looking at app design at the same time. So I'll assume you did your first task, so let's move onto design and accessibility aspects.

Accessibility is about designing products so it is approachable by different audiences (the task of actually using such products with help from assistive tools falls under "usability"). The question to ask when designing products with accessibility in mind is, "what are limitations and workarounds specific audiences need, and how can the product help bridge the gap that might be present for audiences?" For people with disabilities, the question falls under limitations of specific disabilities and tools that can expose your product functionality to specific audiences; for blind people, the obvious choice is using tools to help folks "see" screen content i.e. screen readers, magnifiers, color contrast, and so on; for deaf communities, using text to convey sounds, sign language output and what not. Then you would look for a way to make programs expose needed information so audiences (users) can use your product effectively, and one common scenario is using accessibility API's to communicate information to users of assistive technologies.

In GUI programming (something that's possible for blind people to do although with assistance if required), one would design data representation style (specific GUI controls for things such as text, forms, and many others). Although things may look colorful and intuitive for the majority (the term "majority" depends on language, country, and culture), without effort from humans and tools (along with mindset), the product would not be discoverable (wqord of mouth, review,s etc.), approachable (promotion, demos, etc.), and accessible (these three things must work together when accessibility is concerned, because people with disabilities are some of the most neglected communities when it comes to access to information (what I would term "information blackout"), although that is changing).

So to enhance how the product is seen by people with disabilities and to make them accessible (and usable), API's such as Microsoft Active Accessibility, UI Automation, IAccessible2 were created to help programmers design products with accessibility and usability in mind. These API's consist of at least three parts:

  1. Client/consumer: an assistive technology such as screen readers (including NVDA) is an accessibility client. The job of a client is to ask accessibility API's for information about a control a user is working on, and to perform specific actions required to help people use specific applications such as reading state changes.
  2. Server/producer: the application in question is a server because it serves clients by exposing crucial information for use by different assistive technologies. For screen readers, this means using text labels for graphical buttons, using facilities such as accessibility events to communicate activities such as screen content changes. How such info is communicated to users is the job of the client (assistive technology), and it is up to users as to what to do with information coming from the app.
  3. Accessibility bridge: API's such as MSAA and UIA serve as a bridge between servers (apps) and clients (assistive technologies). The job of accessibility API bridges is to serve as a "middle man" between users and apps by exposing server-side information (whatever the app says) in a way clients can understand, process, and present to users. At the same time, bridges accept interaction tasks (such as keyboard input) from users, communicates these facts to applications, and see what the app says.

A basic grasp of accessibility concepts is one of the steps involved in improving app accessibility (the first obvious step is understanding the culture the target audience comes from, a task you have accomplished well based on the original post). The next task is actually using assistive technologies and apps to better understand what folks are talking about. After that, it comes down to designing programs in a way that is accessible for diverse audiences such as adding labels for GUI controls and using accessibility API's to expose needed information (if using GUI toolkits, I recommend using ones known to have high accessibility marks such as wxWidgets and more recent versions of QT and WinUI/XAML). And don't forget to test your ideas with target audiences (testing, gathering feedback, etc.) early because it is more costly to "improve" accessibility later.

Before I close, one thing you may wish to ponder: if you think carefully about it, NVDA and other screen reader friends are sophisticated data processors. Their job is to gather needed information for blind people with help from facilities provided by the operating system + accessibility API's + apps + standards, process gathered information in a way suitable for presentation through multiple channels (speech, braille, sound, etc.), and presenting information to users. That's the core of screen readers, and when folks talk about screen reader development, we are talking about refining these elements (supporting newer accessibility standards, dealing with apps with no control labels, support for text-to-speech engines and braille displays, keeping an eye on operating system changes, etc.). Of course folks can customize screen readers to their liking (settings, code, add-ons, etc.). at the same time, app accessibility and usablity falls upon the responsibility of app developers, made better when they collaborate with users (this is why I always ask users to send feedback to developers to point out possible accessibility improvements).

Hope this helps a lot.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: Amateur programmer, looking to create accessible programs

arnoldsummerspbem@...
 

Thanks everyone for your replies. I'll take all of this information into account, and I'll look into the other mailing lists mentioned.


On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 11:44 AM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 12:33 PM, udit pandey wrote:
sir i have a question that is it necessary to take maths and science for become a programer
pls help me sir
-
This is not an appropriate line of discussion for the NVDA group.  Also, all you have to do is check with your academic institutions that offer computer science degrees, whether associate, bachelors, or higher to know that math and science are core parts of the curriculum.

Please limit this sort of discussion to the Chat Subgroup, where you already have a topic going.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Loss of Speech at Sign-in Screen after period of inactivity

 

On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 02:21 PM, Gene wrote:
I don’t know but why do you let it sit at the sign in screen?
-
I doubt that he does.  Windows (10, but not just 10) by default is set to go to sleep after a period of inactivity, and to require sign on again when awakened.  That's why I suggested turning off the sign on requirement.  I have mine set that way as well as my computer never set to sleep if it's running on AC power.  It will sleep if running on battery power, but still does not require sign on when awakened.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Wrapping Around Web Pages When Using Quick Nav Keys

Arianna Sepulveda
 

Jene, I, too, prefer the default behavior of NVDA to not wrap.


Thanks, Ari

On Jun 19, 2021, at 2:29 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:


I wrote what I did because I didn’t know there was a way to enable rapping and I wanted to encourage getting used to the other way.  I also wrote it to express my opinion about what may be disadvantages in too much automation.  Others may disagree and I’m not telling other people how to do things.  but I’m expressing my opinion so others can consider it and whether they might wat to try not having rap if they use it. 
 
Also, I raised a question about rapping, given the rather new way of having pages change with use, which wasn’t a feature of web pages when rapping was introduced.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 12:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Wrapping Around Web Pages When Using Quick Nav Keys
 

> It would be much more convenient to go to the last item I’m looking for and receive a no more buttons or headings, etc.

 

I respect that and this may be your preference. However, having a toggle would allow you to continue to enjoy doing things the way you like doing them and would also give others the freedom to navigate with the wrap feature enabled. JAWS enables this by default but contains a toggle for users who don’t like it. I was unaware that third-party addons existed to facilitate this. I will investigate them and will also encourage the developers of these addons to consider having them approved by the addons community which will make them easier to locate. I personally prefer to download NVDA addons from the official repository.

 

 

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

JAWS Certified, 2019

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

 

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 10:08 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Wrapping Around Web Pages When Using Quick Nav Keys

 

NVDA has no such setting.  I think that, after a short time, you may get used to this not occurring and it will fade away to a minor annoyance or perhaps none. 

 

And at times, I consider it an advantage not to have rap.  Let’s say I am going downa page looking for something.  I want to see if I’ve found all the relevant headings or buttons or whatever I’m looking for because I’m not sure which one I want to use.  If I find what I want near the bottom of the page, then have a rap occur, I am once again at the top of the page.  It would be much more convenient to go to the last item I’m looking for and receive a no more buttons or headings, etc.  Then I can work with the last item if it’s the one I want or I can move backwards to the one I want which may be far closer to the bottom of the page than the top. 

 

While I don’t have a strong feeling about this, I think page rap is an example of too much automation which creates as much or more inconvenience than it tries to eliminate. 

 

And another question occurred to me just now.  Does rap cause improper jumping back to the tops of pages in today’s environment?  Many pages change these days as you move through them.  they display more of the page as you move down.  This is to accommodate portable devices.

 

My question is, say you are moving down a page by heading or by a control such as by button.  Does rap cause the screen-reader to rap to the top before the page changes and appear to show that you reached the end of the page when you actually didn’t?

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 8:46 AM

Subject: [nvda] Wrapping Around Web Pages When Using Quick Nav Keys

 

Hi all,

When I am navigating a web page with quick navigation keys (H for headings, E for edit fields, etc.), when I get past the last of these on a page, it does not wrap back to the top of the page. With JAWS, it wraps around and I find this useful. Is there some setting I can change to make it wrap around?

Thanks,

David

 

 


Re: Loss of Speech at Sign-in Screen after period of inactivity

Gene
 

The message says this generally happens after inactivity lasting a day or more.  Bluetooth inactivity problems happen very quickly after no activity. 
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2021 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Loss of Speech at Sign-in Screen after period of inactivity
 
Do you use bluetooth?

Groet Walter

Op 27 jun. 2021 om 17:47 heeft Richard B. McDonald <richardbmcdonald@...> het volgende geschreven:



Hi!

 

I am using Windows 10 and NVDA 2020.4.  Sometimes, after a period of time without any activity and when left at the sign-in screen, I lose speech from NVDA at the sign-in screen.  Generally, this happens after a period of inactivity lasting a day or more.  NVDA becomes totally sluggish; sputtering and not speaking the various fields on the sign-in screen as I tab around them.  This makes it impossible to sign-in; causing me to make a hard reboot.  After the reboot, speech at the sign-in screen is normal.

 

Why is this?  How can I prevent it?

 

Thanks,

Richard


Re: Loss of Speech at Sign-in Screen after period of inactivity

Gene
 

I don’t know but why do you let it sit at the sign in screen?  If the computer is running, why not be signed in?
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2021 10:47 AM
Subject: [nvda] Loss of Speech at Sign-in Screen after period of inactivity
 

Hi!

 

I am using Windows 10 and NVDA 2020.4.  Sometimes, after a period of time without any activity and when left at the sign-in screen, I lose speech from NVDA at the sign-in screen.  Generally, this happens after a period of inactivity lasting a day or more.  NVDA becomes totally sluggish; sputtering and not speaking the various fields on the sign-in screen as I tab around them.  This makes it impossible to sign-in; causing me to make a hard reboot.  After the reboot, speech at the sign-in screen is normal.

 

Why is this?  How can I prevent it?

 

Thanks,

Richard


Re: Amateur programmer, looking to create accessible programs

 

On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 12:33 PM, udit pandey wrote:
sir i have a question that is it necessary to take maths and science for become a programer
pls help me sir
-
This is not an appropriate line of discussion for the NVDA group.  Also, all you have to do is check with your academic institutions that offer computer science degrees, whether associate, bachelors, or higher to know that math and science are core parts of the curriculum.

Please limit this sort of discussion to the Chat Subgroup, where you already have a topic going.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Amateur programmer, looking to create accessible programs

udit pandey
 

hi arnold sir ,
i can help you in testing you can send me your programs and i will tell you if they are fine after running on my system
sir i have a question that is it necessary to take maths and science for become a programer
pls help me sir


On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 at 21:20, Rich DeSteno <axcruncher@...> wrote:

Create programs that generate text on the screen, and not graphics, and you will have accessible programs for blind computer users.  This is especially true when the program operates in the Windows console and not in its GUI.  I have created and distributed many such games and they have been used worldwide by screen-reader users.  You can create such programs in virtually any programming language, including C#, C++, C, Python, and so on.  You can even enhance such programs by having them play wav sound files at various points, such as in games.


Rich De Steno
On 6/27/2021 10:27 AM, tim wrote:

You might want to join program-l@...

There are a few c++ and Microsoft vips.

On 6/26/2021 9:36 PM, arnoldsummerspbem@... wrote:
Hi,

I'm an amateur programmer who is sighted, but I am looking to create applications that are as accessible as possible. Are there any good resources for learning how to optimize one's programs for screen reader use? My particular focus would be NVDA, which is why I'm here. My strongest language is Python, though for various reasons I have been contemplating writing applications in C# and would prefer to use that. Naturally, I'm focusing on Windows environments for now. I am really at a loss trying to find developer guides for the purpose. I'm hoping to find suitable introductory material, but if I need to jump directly into documentation, I'll do that. I just don't know where to look, and I'm hoping that someone out there can provide some guidance. My ignorance of the subject matter is profound, but this is as good a time as any to educate myself, I guess.

Thanks!


Re: Loss of Speech at Sign-in Screen after period of inactivity

 

I have no answer for the why, but do have a possible suggested workaround.

If your computer is somewhere that only you have access to, or you feel certain that no one else will touch it, consider turning off the need to log in again upon awaking from sleep and see if that makes any difference.  Even if you don't choose to keep it this way, it would give you some diagnostic information.

Settings, Accounts, Sign in options, Require Sign In section, toggle for, If you've been away, when should Windows require you to sign in again?, set to Never as opposed to When PC wakes up from sleep.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Loss of Speech at Sign-in Screen after period of inactivity

Walter <walterzuiderwijk@...>
 

Do you use bluetooth?

Groet Walter

Op 27 jun. 2021 om 17:47 heeft Richard B. McDonald <richardbmcdonald@...> het volgende geschreven:



Hi!

 

I am using Windows 10 and NVDA 2020.4.  Sometimes, after a period of time without any activity and when left at the sign-in screen, I lose speech from NVDA at the sign-in screen.  Generally, this happens after a period of inactivity lasting a day or more.  NVDA becomes totally sluggish; sputtering and not speaking the various fields on the sign-in screen as I tab around them.  This makes it impossible to sign-in; causing me to make a hard reboot.  After the reboot, speech at the sign-in screen is normal.

 

Why is this?  How can I prevent it?

 

Thanks,

Richard


Re: Amateur programmer, looking to create accessible programs

Rich DeSteno
 

Create programs that generate text on the screen, and not graphics, and you will have accessible programs for blind computer users.  This is especially true when the program operates in the Windows console and not in its GUI.  I have created and distributed many such games and they have been used worldwide by screen-reader users.  You can create such programs in virtually any programming language, including C#, C++, C, Python, and so on.  You can even enhance such programs by having them play wav sound files at various points, such as in games.


Rich De Steno
On 6/27/2021 10:27 AM, tim wrote:

You might want to join program-l@...

There are a few c++ and Microsoft vips.

On 6/26/2021 9:36 PM, arnoldsummerspbem@... wrote:
Hi,

I'm an amateur programmer who is sighted, but I am looking to create applications that are as accessible as possible. Are there any good resources for learning how to optimize one's programs for screen reader use? My particular focus would be NVDA, which is why I'm here. My strongest language is Python, though for various reasons I have been contemplating writing applications in C# and would prefer to use that. Naturally, I'm focusing on Windows environments for now. I am really at a loss trying to find developer guides for the purpose. I'm hoping to find suitable introductory material, but if I need to jump directly into documentation, I'll do that. I just don't know where to look, and I'm hoping that someone out there can provide some guidance. My ignorance of the subject matter is profound, but this is as good a time as any to educate myself, I guess.

Thanks!


Loss of Speech at Sign-in Screen after period of inactivity

Richard B. McDonald
 

Hi!

 

I am using Windows 10 and NVDA 2020.4.  Sometimes, after a period of time without any activity and when left at the sign-in screen, I lose speech from NVDA at the sign-in screen.  Generally, this happens after a period of inactivity lasting a day or more.  NVDA becomes totally sluggish; sputtering and not speaking the various fields on the sign-in screen as I tab around them.  This makes it impossible to sign-in; causing me to make a hard reboot.  After the reboot, speech at the sign-in screen is normal.

 

Why is this?  How can I prevent it?

 

Thanks,

Richard


Installation of Windows 10 when you are blind

Walter <walterzuiderwijk@...>
 
Edited

when i do the install with narrator when the microsoft text appears i can press space to accept the match and when i give tab i get next i hit enter. Then I get the list with the different partitions that I can delete, I always delete everything and let windows create a complete partition. Then when the laptop has restarted and I see the text of the installation progress with my envision app, I press the windows key plus control plus enter again and I have the narrator back.
Kind regards and goed lak and sorry for my bad english I live in Holland
Verzonden vanuit Mail voor Windows 10


Groet Walter


Re: Amateur programmer, looking to create accessible programs

tim
 

You might want to join program-l@...

There are a few c++ and Microsoft vips.

On 6/26/2021 9:36 PM, arnoldsummerspbem@... wrote:
Hi,

I'm an amateur programmer who is sighted, but I am looking to create applications that are as accessible as possible. Are there any good resources for learning how to optimize one's programs for screen reader use? My particular focus would be NVDA, which is why I'm here. My strongest language is Python, though for various reasons I have been contemplating writing applications in C# and would prefer to use that. Naturally, I'm focusing on Windows environments for now. I am really at a loss trying to find developer guides for the purpose. I'm hoping to find suitable introductory material, but if I need to jump directly into documentation, I'll do that. I just don't know where to look, and I'm hoping that someone out there can provide some guidance. My ignorance of the subject matter is profound, but this is as good a time as any to educate myself, I guess.

Thanks!


Re: Amateur programmer, looking to create accessible programs

Luke Davis
 

Hello and welcome!

The first thing you might consider, is also joining the nvda-devel mailing list. https://groups.io/g/nvda-devel
There are more sighted programmers there than you are likely to find here, I think.

I'm not sighted, and I don't program for Windows except in Python; and on Linux/Unix I don't program for the GUI. So I probably can't help you much.

But one of the things you can probably do, is stick to known accessible user interfaces like WX, and avoid those known to be less accessible like QT.

Other than that, ask around with specific questions--is "X" a platform/framework/library that results in accessible apps?

Pay attention to any accessibility interfaces provided by whatever frameworks/libraries you do end up using.

And of course, find yourself some blind alpha testers.

Sadly, I don't know of any specific resources for this, but again it's not an area I have much researched. Simply put, if anything I was doing wasn't screen reader accessible, I wouldn't be doing it.

Luke

arnoldsummerspbem@gmail.com wrote:

I'm an amateur programmer who is sighted, but I am looking to create applications that are as accessible as possible. Are there any good resources for
learning how to optimize one's programs for screen reader use?

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