1. nvda@nvda.groups.io
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Re: Issue With Thunderbird Line Navigation In 2021.1 Beta 5

Chris Smart
 

Yep, Thunderbird and the latest beta here with no issues whatsoever.

On 2021-06-28 2:40 p.m., tim wrote:
Never did have a problem reading emails.

Using baita 5with all add ons that will run on that one, plus same with TB.

So they may want to check there setup.

On 6/28/2021 9:11 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Group,

I do not have this issue using NVDA 2020.4 stable relese. However, I am seeing this issue reported on other lists. With 2021 beta 5, people are reporting that navigation line by line (with the up/down arrow keys) renders no speech.  Can anyone official or otherwise confirm this issue?
Re: Issue With Thunderbird Line Navigation In 2021.1 Beta 5

tim
 

Never did have a problem reading emails.

Using baita 5with all add ons that will run on that one, plus same with TB.

So they may want to check there setup.

On 6/28/2021 9:11 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Group,

I do not have this issue using NVDA 2020.4 stable relese. However, I am seeing this issue reported on other lists. With 2021 beta 5, people are reporting that navigation line by line (with the up/down arrow keys) renders no speech.  Can anyone official or otherwise confirm this issue?
Re: Loss of Speech at Sign-in Screen after period of inactivity

Walter <walterzuiderwijk@...>
 

Click om de next link en de probleem is wie zelf 't


Sorry voor mij bed English 

Op 28 jun. 2021 om 20:12 heeft Richard B. McDonald <richardbmcdonald@...> het volgende geschreven:



Hi!

 

To clarify a few things brought up in the below, 1) the computer is set “never” to sleep and 2) there are no Bluetooth devices connected.

 

However, up until right now I had the screen set to “turn off” after one hour.  Now, I set it to “never.”  Might this have been the cause?  Also, about leaving the screen on all the time, in the old days (with CRT monitors at least) we were told not to leave the screen on because the image would “burn” into it leaving a ghost on the screen.  Is that still true with a modern monitor?  I believe the monitor in question here is an LCD.  Of course, for now I am putting aside the power consumption issues; as explained next.

 

This desktop PC in question here has several accounts on it.  One of  them is for my wife (sighted).  She uses the computer daily for work.  The computer is also acting as a “server” on our WiFi; sharing its “public” folder over that WiFi.  I constantly access that folder over our WiFi via my laptop for data files, music and so on.  In the past, I have had problems doing this if the computer went to sleep.  I do know about the “wake on LAN” thing, but that never really solved these problems in a solid way.  Seemingly, using a screen reader becomes unreliable in an environment involving WiFi networks and computers that sleep.

 

Thanks,

Richard

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2021 1:48 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Loss of Speech at Sign-in Screen after period of inactivity

 

On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 02:21 PM, Gene wrote:

I don’t know but why do you let it sit at the sign in screen?

-
I doubt that he does.  Windows (10, but not just 10) by default is set to go to sleep after a period of inactivity, and to require sign on again when awakened.  That's why I suggested turning off the sign on requirement.  I have mine set that way as well as my computer never set to sleep if it's running on AC power.  It will sleep if running on battery power, but still does not require sign on when awakened.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 
Re: Loss of Speech at Sign-in Screen after period of inactivity

Richard B. McDonald
 

Hi!

 

To clarify a few things brought up in the below, 1) the computer is set “never” to sleep and 2) there are no Bluetooth devices connected.

 

However, up until right now I had the screen set to “turn off” after one hour.  Now, I set it to “never.”  Might this have been the cause?  Also, about leaving the screen on all the time, in the old days (with CRT monitors at least) we were told not to leave the screen on because the image would “burn” into it leaving a ghost on the screen.  Is that still true with a modern monitor?  I believe the monitor in question here is an LCD.  Of course, for now I am putting aside the power consumption issues; as explained next.

 

This desktop PC in question here has several accounts on it.  One of  them is for my wife (sighted).  She uses the computer daily for work.  The computer is also acting as a “server” on our WiFi; sharing its “public” folder over that WiFi.  I constantly access that folder over our WiFi via my laptop for data files, music and so on.  In the past, I have had problems doing this if the computer went to sleep.  I do know about the “wake on LAN” thing, but that never really solved these problems in a solid way.  Seemingly, using a screen reader becomes unreliable in an environment involving WiFi networks and computers that sleep.

 

Thanks,

Richard

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2021 1:48 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Loss of Speech at Sign-in Screen after period of inactivity

 

On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 02:21 PM, Gene wrote:

I don’t know but why do you let it sit at the sign in screen?

-
I doubt that he does.  Windows (10, but not just 10) by default is set to go to sleep after a period of inactivity, and to require sign on again when awakened.  That's why I suggested turning off the sign on requirement.  I have mine set that way as well as my computer never set to sleep if it's running on AC power.  It will sleep if running on battery power, but still does not require sign on when awakened.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 
Re: Differential behavior with NVDA Portable versus Installed when working with Microsoft Word on windows 10

Walter <walterzuiderwijk@...>
 

Thankyou so much

Groet Walter

Op 28 jun. 2021 om 19:54 heeft Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> het volgende geschreven:

You can get your Windows version, on any machine running Windows, via the winver command.  In the case of Windows 10 you just hit the Windows key, type winver, then hit enter.  The dialog with the version and build information appears.

winver has been around as long as Windows has.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 
Re: Differential behavior with NVDA Portable versus Installed when working with Microsoft Word on windows 10

Brian Vogel
 

You can get your Windows version, on any machine running Windows, via the winver command.  In the case of Windows 10 you just hit the Windows key, type winver, then hit enter.  The dialog with the version and build information appears.

winver has been around as long as Windows has.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 
Re: Differential behavior with NVDA Portable versus Installed when working with Microsoft Word on windows 10

Walter <walterzuiderwijk@...>
 

good day,
Went to work today, I looked for the version of Windows 10 but couldn't find it. Now that I'm home I remember that I can find it under info. The version of NVDA that did not work with word at my work was the latest update 2020.4.
But I think you're starting to get it right about the network drive being protected. Because the NVDA version on the computer itself does it with word. It is still an older version of NVDA but that has to do with the fact that I can't update it due to admin rights.
Kind regards Walter
Verzonden vanuit Mail voor Windows 10
 

Groet Walter

Op 24 jun. 2021 om 15:56 heeft Walter via groups.io <walterzuiderwijk@...> het volgende geschreven:


Dear,
My apologies I haven't been to work today because of a migraine I hope but I can't promise anything yet I'll check on Monday to see if I can email the verzies you asked for
Kind regarts Walter Zuiderwijk

Groet Walter

Op 23 jun. 2021 om 21:13 heeft Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> het volgende geschreven:

BTW, I have corrected the spelling on "when" in the topic title, which I am responsible for having introduced.  Please, if possible, respond to messages that have "when" not "wheh."
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 
Re: accessible Password managers

Fawaz Abdul rahman
 

Hi,
You can also use the password managers that come with the browser, I use the one in firefox, I know that there is one with chrome too.
Other than that, there is bitwarden (open source) and 1password (paid), subscription-based.
good luck.


On Mon, Jun 28, 2021 at 5:45 PM zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi.
i think that keypass should be accessible with nvda screen reader.
also, its opensource.

On 6/28/21, Cearbhall O'Meadhra <cearbhall.omeadhra@...> wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
>
> Are any password managers usable with NVDA?
>
>
>
> I'm thinking of getting one to make my system more secure as I keep
> forgetting my passwords.
>
>
>
> I'm running NVDA (latest) on windows 10 on the PC.
>
>
>
> All the best,
>
>
>
> Cearbhall
>
>
>
> m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali
Re: Issue With Thunderbird Line Navigation In 2021.1 Beta 5

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

It happens for a few lines and then stops.



On 6/28/2021 8:18 AM, Gene wrote:
But is this a new problem with the version Ron is asking about?  And does this just happen when you move for a few lines, then stop or does it happen for an entire message?
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2021 10:07 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Issue With Thunderbird Line Navigation In 2021.1 Beta 5
 
Hi, Ron,


I don't have a problem with loss of speech but from time to time I hear
"selected" or "unselected" when I'm trying to read a message line by line,


Rosemarie



On 6/28/2021 6:11 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
> Hi Group,
>
> I do not have this issue using NVDA 2020.4 stable relese. However, I
> am seeing this issue reported on other lists. With 2021 beta 5, people
> are reporting that navigation line by line (with the up/down arrow
> keys) renders no speech.  Can anyone official or otherwise confirm
> this issue?
>
Re: Issue With Thunderbird Line Navigation In 2021.1 Beta 5

Gene
 

But is this a new problem with the version Ron is asking about?  And does this just happen when you move for a few lines, then stop or does it happen for an entire message?
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2021 10:07 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Issue With Thunderbird Line Navigation In 2021.1 Beta 5
 
Hi, Ron,


I don't have a problem with loss of speech but from time to time I hear
"selected" or "unselected" when I'm trying to read a message line by line,


Rosemarie



On 6/28/2021 6:11 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
> Hi Group,
>
> I do not have this issue using NVDA 2020.4 stable relese. However, I
> am seeing this issue reported on other lists. With 2021 beta 5, people
> are reporting that navigation line by line (with the up/down arrow
> keys) renders no speech.  Can anyone official or otherwise confirm
> this issue?
>
Re: Issue With Thunderbird Line Navigation In 2021.1 Beta 5

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, Ron,


I don't have a problem with loss of speech but from time to time I hear "selected" or "unselected" when I'm trying to read a message line by line,


Rosemarie

On 6/28/2021 6:11 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Group,

I do not have this issue using NVDA 2020.4 stable relese. However, I am seeing this issue reported on other lists. With 2021 beta 5, people are reporting that navigation line by line (with the up/down arrow keys) renders no speech.  Can anyone official or otherwise confirm this issue?
Re: accessible Password managers

Brian Vogel
 

I've been using Password Safe (as have some of my clients) for years now along with its Android port (there's an iOS one, too) Passwd Safe.

Unless something's changed, and I have no visual evidence of that as it seems to have remained static as far as the UI goes for years, it's accessible.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 
Re: accessible Password managers

Life in Six Dots
 

Hi Cearbhall,

The most accessible Password Manager I've found is 1Password. It is accessible with most screen readers including NVDA. I've used it for some years now with JAWS, NVDA, VoiceOver (macOS and iOS), and more recently with Android and even Orca and eSpeakUp on Linux.

Paul
Re: accessible Password managers

zahra
 

hi.
i think that keypass should be accessible with nvda screen reader.
also, its opensource.

On 6/28/21, Cearbhall O'Meadhra <cearbhall.omeadhra@...> wrote:
Hi,



Are any password managers usable with NVDA?



I'm thinking of getting one to make my system more secure as I keep
forgetting my passwords.



I'm running NVDA (latest) on windows 10 on the PC.



All the best,



Cearbhall



m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...







--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus





--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali
accessible Password managers

Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

Hi,

 

Are any password managers usable with NVDA?

 

I’m thinking of getting one to make my system more secure as I keep forgetting my passwords.

 

I’m running NVDA (latest) on windows 10 on the PC.

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 



Avast logo

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com


Issue With Thunderbird Line Navigation In 2021.1 Beta 5

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Group,

I do not have this issue using NVDA 2020.4 stable relese.  However, I am seeing this issue reported on other lists. With 2021 beta 5, people are reporting that navigation line by line (with the up/down arrow keys) renders no speech.  Can anyone official or otherwise confirm this issue?

--
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grevous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!
Welcome to the NVDA Community Add-ons website - Windows Magnifier #nvdaaddonsfeed

nvda@nvda.groups.io Integration <nvda@...>
 

Windows Magnifier

This add-on improves the use of Windows Magnifier with NVDA.

Features

  • Allows to report the result of some native Magnifier keyboard commands.
  • Allows to reduces the cases where table navigation command conflict with Magnifier's commands.
  • Adds some keyboard shortcuts to toggle various Magnifier options.

Settings

The setting panel of Windows Magnifier extension allows to configure how NVDA reacts to native Windows Magnifier commands. You may want to have more or less commands reported according to what you are able to see. This panel may be opened choosing Preferences -> Settings in the NVDA menu and then selecting the Windows Magnifier category in the Settings window. The keyboard shortcut NVDA+Windows+O then O also allows to open this settings panel directly.

The panel contains the following options:

  • Report view moves: controls what is reported when you move the view with Control+Alt+Arrows commands. The three options are:

    • Off: Nothing is reported
    • With speech: a speech message indicate the position of the zoomed view on the dimension the view is being moved.
    • With tones: a tone is played and its pitch indicates the position of the zoomed view on the dimension the view is being moved.

    This option only affects full view mode.

  • Report turn on or off: If checked, the Magnifier's state is reported when you use Windows++ or Windows+Escape commands to turn it on or off.
  • Report zoom: If checked, the Magnifier's zoom level is reported when you use Windows++ or Windows+- zoom commands.
  • Report color inversion: If checked, the color inversion state is reported when you use the control+Alt+I toggle command.
  • Report view change: If checked, the view type is reported when you use a command that changes the view type (Control+Alt+M, Control+Alt+F, Control+Alt+D, Control+Alt+L)
  • Report lens or docked window resizing: If checked, a message is reported when you use the resizing commands (Alt+Shift+Arrows). In docked window mode, the height or the width is reported. In lens mode, the new dimension cannot be reported for now. These resizing command do not seem to be available on all versions of Windows; if your Windows version does not support them, you should keep this option unchecked.

  • In documents and list views, pass control+alt+arrows shortcuts to Windows Magnifier: There are three possible choices:

    • Never: The command is not passed to Windows Magnifier and standard NVDA table navigation can operate. When used in documents out of a table, Control+Alt+Arrow commands report a "Not in a table" error message. This is the standard behaviour of NVDA without this add-on.
    • Only when not in table: In table or in list views, Control+Alt+Arrow commands perform standard table navigation. When used in documents out of a table, Control+Alt+Arrow commands perform standard Magnifier view move commands. If you still want to move Windows Magnifier view while in table or in list view, you will need to press NVDA+F2 before using Control+Alt+Arrow commands. This option is the best compromise if you want to use Control+Alt+Arrow for both Magnifier and table navigation.
    • Always: Control+Alt+Arrow commands moves the Magnifier's view in any case. This option may be useful if you do not use Control+Alt+Arrow to navigate in table, e.g. because you have changed table navigation shortcuts in NVDA or because you exclusively use Easy table navigator add-on for table navigation.

Commands added by this add-on

In addition to native Magnifier commands, this add-on provide additional commands that allow to control Magnifier's options without opening its configuration page. All the commands added to control Magnifier options are accessible through the Magnifier layer command NVDA+Windows+O:

  • NVDA+Windows+O then C: Toggles on or off caret tracking.
  • NVDA+Windows+O then F: Toggles on or off focus tracking.
  • NVDA+Windows+O then M: Toggles on or off mouse tracking.
  • NVDA+Windows+O then T: Toggles on or off tracking globally.
  • NVDA+Windows+O then S: Toggles on or off smoothing.
  • NVDA+Windows+O then R: Switches between mouse tracking modes (within the edge of the screen or centered on the screen); this feature is only available on Windows 10 build 17643 or higher.
  • NVDA+Windows+O then X: Switches between text cursor tracking modes (within the edge of the screen or centered on the screen); this feature is only available on Windows 10 build 18894 or higher.
  • NVDA+Windows+O then V: Moves the mouse cursor in the center of the magnified view (command available in full screen view only).
  • NVDA+Windows+O then O: Opens Windows Magnifier add-on settings.
  • NVDA+Windows+O then H: Displays help on Magnifier layer commands.

There is no default direct gesture for each command, but you can attribute one normally in the input gesture dialog if you wish. The same way, You can also modify or delete the Magnifier layer access gesture (NVDA+Windows+O). Yet, you cannot modify the shortcut key of the Magnifier layer sub-commands.

Magnifier's native commands

The result of the following Magnifier native commands may be reported by this add-on, according to its configuration:

  • Start Magnifier: Windows++ (on alpha-numeric keyboard or on numpad)
  • Quit Magnifier: Windows+Escape
  • Zoom in: Windows++ (on alpha-numeric keyboard or on numpad)
  • Zoom out: Windows+- (on alpha-numeric keyboard or on numpad)
  • Toggle color inversion: Control+Alt+I
  • Select the docked view: Control+Alt+D
  • Select the full screen view: Control+Alt+F
  • Select the lens view: Control+Alt+L
  • Cycle through the three view types: Control+Alt+M
  • Resize the lens with the keyboard: Shift+Alt+Left/Right/Up/DownArrow. Note: although this does not seem to be documented, this shortcut seems to have been withdrawn in recent Windows versions such as Windows 2004.
  • Move the magnified view: Control+Alt+Arrows (reporting only affects full screen mode)

Here is also a list of other Magnifier native commands, just for information:

  • Control+Alt+mouseScrollWheel: Zooms in and out using the mouse scroll wheel.
  • Control+Windows+M: Opens the Magnifier's settings window.
  • Control+Alt+R: Resizes the lens with the mouse.
  • Control+Alt+Space: Quickly shows the entire desktop when using full screen view.

None of the Magnifier native commands can be modified.

Notes

  • For computers equipped with an Intel graphic card, control+alt+arrow (left/right/up/down) are also shortcuts to modify the orientation of the screen. These shortcut are enabled by default and conflict with Windows Magnifiers shortcuts to move the view. You will need to disable them to be able to use them for the Magnifier. They can be disabled in the Intel control panel or in the Intel menu present in the system tray.

  • Depending on your Windows version, Alt+Shift+Arrow are Windows Magnifier shortcuts to resize the magnified view (lens or docked). When Magnifier is active (even in full screen mode), these shortcuts are captured by Magnifier and cannot be passed to the application, even if you press NVDA+F2 before. To use these shortcuts in the current application, you need to quit the Magnifier (Windows+Escape) and re-open it after (Windows++). For example in MS word, to decrease title level:

    • Press Windows+Escape to quit Magnifier.
    • Press Alt+Shift+RightArrow to decrease current title level.
    • Press Windows++ to re-open the Magnifier.

  • For more information about Windows Magnifier's features and shortcuts, you may want to consult the following pages:

Change log

Version 1.0

  • Initial release.
Re: Having trouble with outlook while using NVDA.

Naveen Kumar M
 

Thank you for the update.

 

Regards,

Naveen

 

certification page

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2021 4:14 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Having trouble with outlook while using NVDA.

 

Hi Naveen,

 

I checked with Microsoft, and confirmed that this is a known issue.  It has been fixed in Office 365, but not yet in Office 2019.

 

Kind regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Thu, Jun 24, 2021 at 7:59 PM Naveen Kumar M <naveen.m@...> wrote:

Sorry Quentin, I missed this mail. I checked re installing the NVDA as well as reinstalling the MS office. For your information, I am using licensed version and Microsoft members also tried their level best. But, the issue hasn’t resolved.

 

Regards,

Naveen

 

 

certification page

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Crayton Benner via groups.io
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 7:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Having trouble with outlook while using NVDA.

 

Have you tried reinstalling nvda at all? 

On Monday, June 21, 2021, 09:15, Naveen Kumar M <naveen.m@...> wrote:

Dear Quentin,

 

Recently I have installed MS office 2019. If I open any mails which has meeting request in outlook app, outlook is automatically getting restart. This issue I having only while NVDA or Narrator running in my system. If I open meeting request mails in outlook app while JAWS is running, I am able to open without any issues. This issue 3 members are facing in my organization. Please let me know what I can do for this issue. Even if I open the meeting requests mail without screen reader, I am not facing any issue. My colleagues tried re installing the office 2019 as well as 2016. But, still the issue hasn’t resolved. Our IT team also tried their level best. But, they couldn’t.

 

Looking forward to your response,

 

Regards,

Naveen M

 

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Re: Is doing a completely clean install of windows 10 screen reader accessible?

Luke Davis
 

Arlene

Many computers come with a recovery partition of some sort, or a factory reset partition.

This is an area of the hard drive that you can boot from, that will let you restore the computer to the way it was when you bought it. Booting from that partition and using it will require sighted help--it usually involves pressing F12 while first turning the system on, and looking in the menu that comes up for some sort of recovery or factory reset sounding partition.

There is another option. Windows itself can do a reset, in which it wipes all userdata and settings, and sets itself back to factory defaults.

The latter has one good advantage: any upgrades you have done to Windows (like from 7 to 10) will be preserved. Oh, and it is accessible as far as I can remember from the last time I did it.

Luke

On Jun 26, Arlene wrote:

Hi there, If you wipe the whole thing clean? Do you have to set it all back up as though you bought the computer brand new?  I know this sounds stupid. Do
you have to set up all your Microsoft account?  Do you have to have a windows ten disk?  This computer came without one.  If I was to wipe my system Does
this Acer computer or any other windows computers come with windows  already in them? I hope I asked the right questions.
Re: Amateur programmer, looking to create accessible programs

Sam Bushman
 

Hey Arnold,

 

I didn’t write before because others on this list are much more qualified than I am.

However, since others didn’t focus on things I would mention I decided maybe my input would help as well.

 

When you write programs for the blind The following is way helpful:

 

If you use standard windows controls instead of custom controls screen readers have a much better ability to work well.

If you provide several ways to accomplish things in the app it’s much more helpful.

Meaning keyboard access to everything not just mouse access.

If you use standard tool tips for help.

If you make sure the tab key works well everywhere it’s much more helpful. Focusing on tab order in this case makes a huge difference.

Making sure to use text labels for things when graphics are used it’s helpful.

Meaning edit boxes with labels and other controls as well.

Making sure screens have text not just graphics is huge.

The more standard your windows screens are the easier it will be for us to use.

 

Some programmers actually have a setting in there software making much better access possible.

A great example of this is the Jarte application – it’s a simple word processor.

 

I could say much more but these ideas should get you started.

 

Thanks for thinking of us.

 

The point was made but I agree, we can test and help if you like also.

 

Sam

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Arnold Summers
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2021 5:55 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Amateur programmer, looking to create accessible programs

 

Joseph,

 

Your message was helpful, particularly the mentions of API's and GUI toolkits. It gives me something concrete to look into in the way of actual code. You gave me a lot to think about. Thank you! 

 

On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 5:00 PM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi all,

As Luke and others pointed out, there are lists dedicated to programming, and in case of NVDA specifically, there is NVDA Development list. I think both lists are good, but that won't solve the issue the original poster is looking into, and you can indeed create accessible GUI-based applications (although counterintuitive, NVDA is an accessible GUI-based application if you think about it). What I'm going to write comes from my experience as a programmer who spent years working on screen readers and have been advocating for accessibility and usability (like Luke, I'm blind, although I was a low vision user until my early teens, which was early 2000's):

As you may know, the first task of programming is looking for a problem to solve. The fact that you wish to write an app that is accessible is very notable, in that you may have found some issues you wish to solve by writing apps, along with looking at app design at the same time. So I'll assume you did your first task, so let's move onto design and accessibility aspects.

Accessibility is about designing products so it is approachable by different audiences (the task of actually using such products with help from assistive tools falls under "usability"). The question to ask when designing products with accessibility in mind is, "what are limitations and workarounds specific audiences need, and how can the product help bridge the gap that might be present for audiences?" For people with disabilities, the question falls under limitations of specific disabilities and tools that can expose your product functionality to specific audiences; for blind people, the obvious choice is using tools to help folks "see" screen content i.e. screen readers, magnifiers, color contrast, and so on; for deaf communities, using text to convey sounds, sign language output and what not. Then you would look for a way to make programs expose needed information so audiences (users) can use your product effectively, and one common scenario is using accessibility API's to communicate information to users of assistive technologies.

In GUI programming (something that's possible for blind people to do although with assistance if required), one would design data representation style (specific GUI controls for things such as text, forms, and many others). Although things may look colorful and intuitive for the majority (the term "majority" depends on language, country, and culture), without effort from humans and tools (along with mindset), the product would not be discoverable (wqord of mouth, review,s etc.), approachable (promotion, demos, etc.), and accessible (these three things must work together when accessibility is concerned, because people with disabilities are some of the most neglected communities when it comes to access to information (what I would term "information blackout"), although that is changing).

So to enhance how the product is seen by people with disabilities and to make them accessible (and usable), API's such as Microsoft Active Accessibility, UI Automation, IAccessible2 were created to help programmers design products with accessibility and usability in mind. These API's consist of at least three parts:

  1. Client/consumer: an assistive technology such as screen readers (including NVDA) is an accessibility client. The job of a client is to ask accessibility API's for information about a control a user is working on, and to perform specific actions required to help people use specific applications such as reading state changes.
  2. Server/producer: the application in question is a server because it serves clients by exposing crucial information for use by different assistive technologies. For screen readers, this means using text labels for graphical buttons, using facilities such as accessibility events to communicate activities such as screen content changes. How such info is communicated to users is the job of the client (assistive technology), and it is up to users as to what to do with information coming from the app.
  3. Accessibility bridge: API's such as MSAA and UIA serve as a bridge between servers (apps) and clients (assistive technologies). The job of accessibility API bridges is to serve as a "middle man" between users and apps by exposing server-side information (whatever the app says) in a way clients can understand, process, and present to users. At the same time, bridges accept interaction tasks (such as keyboard input) from users, communicates these facts to applications, and see what the app says.

A basic grasp of accessibility concepts is one of the steps involved in improving app accessibility (the first obvious step is understanding the culture the target audience comes from, a task you have accomplished well based on the original post). The next task is actually using assistive technologies and apps to better understand what folks are talking about. After that, it comes down to designing programs in a way that is accessible for diverse audiences such as adding labels for GUI controls and using accessibility API's to expose needed information (if using GUI toolkits, I recommend using ones known to have high accessibility marks such as wxWidgets and more recent versions of QT and WinUI/XAML). And don't forget to test your ideas with target audiences (testing, gathering feedback, etc.) early because it is more costly to "improve" accessibility later.

Before I close, one thing you may wish to ponder: if you think carefully about it, NVDA and other screen reader friends are sophisticated data processors. Their job is to gather needed information for blind people with help from facilities provided by the operating system + accessibility API's + apps + standards, process gathered information in a way suitable for presentation through multiple channels (speech, braille, sound, etc.), and presenting information to users. That's the core of screen readers, and when folks talk about screen reader development, we are talking about refining these elements (supporting newer accessibility standards, dealing with apps with no control labels, support for text-to-speech engines and braille displays, keeping an eye on operating system changes, etc.). Of course folks can customize screen readers to their liking (settings, code, add-ons, etc.). at the same time, app accessibility and usablity falls upon the responsibility of app developers, made better when they collaborate with users (this is why I always ask users to send feedback to developers to point out possible accessibility improvements).

Hope this helps a lot.

Cheers,

Joseph
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