Date   

Re: NVDA not working with Chrome

Hidden User <huser3476@...>
 

Hi,
thanks for that was a valuable feedback.
Also, also want ask you guise that should I update to latest windows 10 19043 build.
Does it have bugs?


On Tue, 29 Jun 2021 at 22:57, Luke Davis <luke@...> wrote:
Hidden User wrote:

> Used earlier version of NVDA

I would like to suggest the opposite.

Download the latest alpha version of NVDA from here.
https://ci.appveyor.com/project/nvaccess/nvda/build/alpha-23227,dbd6c119

Don't install it, just run the executable file, and when the window comes
up to ask install, make a portable version, or keep running (what is
called a temporary copy), do that--just select keep running.

Then, Press NVDA+n, followed by t, to get to the NVDA tools menu.
Next, choose the option for "Run COM Registration Fixing Tool", and follow the prompts.

We have just finished rebuilding the internals of that tool to fix more
problems, and to work much better on 64-bit Windows.

After you run that tool, quit NVDA, and start your existing installed copy
of 2020.4 again, and see if your problem is resolved.

A note to anyone else reading this: this is specific advice, to this user
only, not a general suggestion. There's no reason for anyone else to try
this unless you are having this exact problem

Luke






Re: Amateur programmer, looking to create accessible programs

Arnold Summers <arnoldsummerspbem@...>
 

Hi Sam,

Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. These are all great tips, and something I will definitely keep in mind. And you said you could say much more: Please do so! The more information I have to work with the better!

Arnold
 

On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 7:41 PM Sam Bushman <libertyroundtable@...> wrote:

Hey Arnold,

 

I didn’t write before because others on this list are much more qualified than I am.

However, since others didn’t focus on things I would mention I decided maybe my input would help as well.

 

When you write programs for the blind The following is way helpful:

 

If you use standard windows controls instead of custom controls screen readers have a much better ability to work well.

If you provide several ways to accomplish things in the app it’s much more helpful.

Meaning keyboard access to everything not just mouse access.

If you use standard tool tips for help.

If you make sure the tab key works well everywhere it’s much more helpful. Focusing on tab order in this case makes a huge difference.

Making sure to use text labels for things when graphics are used it’s helpful.

Meaning edit boxes with labels and other controls as well.

Making sure screens have text not just graphics is huge.

The more standard your windows screens are the easier it will be for us to use.

 

Some programmers actually have a setting in there software making much better access possible.

A great example of this is the Jarte application – it’s a simple word processor.

 

I could say much more but these ideas should get you started.

 

Thanks for thinking of us.

 

The point was made but I agree, we can test and help if you like also.

 

Sam

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Arnold Summers
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2021 5:55 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Amateur programmer, looking to create accessible programs

 

Joseph,

 

Your message was helpful, particularly the mentions of API's and GUI toolkits. It gives me something concrete to look into in the way of actual code. You gave me a lot to think about. Thank you! 

 

On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 5:00 PM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi all,

As Luke and others pointed out, there are lists dedicated to programming, and in case of NVDA specifically, there is NVDA Development list. I think both lists are good, but that won't solve the issue the original poster is looking into, and you can indeed create accessible GUI-based applications (although counterintuitive, NVDA is an accessible GUI-based application if you think about it). What I'm going to write comes from my experience as a programmer who spent years working on screen readers and have been advocating for accessibility and usability (like Luke, I'm blind, although I was a low vision user until my early teens, which was early 2000's):

As you may know, the first task of programming is looking for a problem to solve. The fact that you wish to write an app that is accessible is very notable, in that you may have found some issues you wish to solve by writing apps, along with looking at app design at the same time. So I'll assume you did your first task, so let's move onto design and accessibility aspects.

Accessibility is about designing products so it is approachable by different audiences (the task of actually using such products with help from assistive tools falls under "usability"). The question to ask when designing products with accessibility in mind is, "what are limitations and workarounds specific audiences need, and how can the product help bridge the gap that might be present for audiences?" For people with disabilities, the question falls under limitations of specific disabilities and tools that can expose your product functionality to specific audiences; for blind people, the obvious choice is using tools to help folks "see" screen content i.e. screen readers, magnifiers, color contrast, and so on; for deaf communities, using text to convey sounds, sign language output and what not. Then you would look for a way to make programs expose needed information so audiences (users) can use your product effectively, and one common scenario is using accessibility API's to communicate information to users of assistive technologies.

In GUI programming (something that's possible for blind people to do although with assistance if required), one would design data representation style (specific GUI controls for things such as text, forms, and many others). Although things may look colorful and intuitive for the majority (the term "majority" depends on language, country, and culture), without effort from humans and tools (along with mindset), the product would not be discoverable (wqord of mouth, review,s etc.), approachable (promotion, demos, etc.), and accessible (these three things must work together when accessibility is concerned, because people with disabilities are some of the most neglected communities when it comes to access to information (what I would term "information blackout"), although that is changing).

So to enhance how the product is seen by people with disabilities and to make them accessible (and usable), API's such as Microsoft Active Accessibility, UI Automation, IAccessible2 were created to help programmers design products with accessibility and usability in mind. These API's consist of at least three parts:

  1. Client/consumer: an assistive technology such as screen readers (including NVDA) is an accessibility client. The job of a client is to ask accessibility API's for information about a control a user is working on, and to perform specific actions required to help people use specific applications such as reading state changes.
  2. Server/producer: the application in question is a server because it serves clients by exposing crucial information for use by different assistive technologies. For screen readers, this means using text labels for graphical buttons, using facilities such as accessibility events to communicate activities such as screen content changes. How such info is communicated to users is the job of the client (assistive technology), and it is up to users as to what to do with information coming from the app.
  3. Accessibility bridge: API's such as MSAA and UIA serve as a bridge between servers (apps) and clients (assistive technologies). The job of accessibility API bridges is to serve as a "middle man" between users and apps by exposing server-side information (whatever the app says) in a way clients can understand, process, and present to users. At the same time, bridges accept interaction tasks (such as keyboard input) from users, communicates these facts to applications, and see what the app says.

A basic grasp of accessibility concepts is one of the steps involved in improving app accessibility (the first obvious step is understanding the culture the target audience comes from, a task you have accomplished well based on the original post). The next task is actually using assistive technologies and apps to better understand what folks are talking about. After that, it comes down to designing programs in a way that is accessible for diverse audiences such as adding labels for GUI controls and using accessibility API's to expose needed information (if using GUI toolkits, I recommend using ones known to have high accessibility marks such as wxWidgets and more recent versions of QT and WinUI/XAML). And don't forget to test your ideas with target audiences (testing, gathering feedback, etc.) early because it is more costly to "improve" accessibility later.

Before I close, one thing you may wish to ponder: if you think carefully about it, NVDA and other screen reader friends are sophisticated data processors. Their job is to gather needed information for blind people with help from facilities provided by the operating system + accessibility API's + apps + standards, process gathered information in a way suitable for presentation through multiple channels (speech, braille, sound, etc.), and presenting information to users. That's the core of screen readers, and when folks talk about screen reader development, we are talking about refining these elements (supporting newer accessibility standards, dealing with apps with no control labels, support for text-to-speech engines and braille displays, keeping an eye on operating system changes, etc.). Of course folks can customize screen readers to their liking (settings, code, add-ons, etc.). at the same time, app accessibility and usablity falls upon the responsibility of app developers, made better when they collaborate with users (this is why I always ask users to send feedback to developers to point out possible accessibility improvements).

Hope this helps a lot.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: microsoft says that there is a bug in the edge brouser

 

On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 05:40 PM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
This while a bit clumsy, does work for me.
-
Ron,

No, I did not, but that's because I don't depend on a screen reader.  I understand, perfectly, that it's different if you do.

Yours is another workaround, and it's a fine one if someone wants to use it.  I do know it would drive me crazy if using the screen reader and I'd far prefer to punt to an alternative browser, whether Firefox, or one of the Chromium-based ones, until the fix to Edge occurs, and you can be certain it will occur.

Regression bugs are a fact of life, and not only in the context of those who use screen readers.  It's precisely the reason that those of us who are technology teachers always say you must, not should, but must, have a "Plan B," even if you don't like it nearly as well as your usual "Plan A," so that if something breaks in Plan A you can keep working until that break is fixed.  And when it comes to web browsers in particular, there is no reason that anyone should end up being the proverbial "deer in the headlights" if their chosen browser breaks.  There are just too many very, very similar options these days, all of which are screen reader accessible. 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Question about using the elements list on a page with a large quantity of information

Gene
 

I don’t know why that is.  Are you saying that is the case on this site and not in general?  If so, I can only speculate that code on the site is interfering with the dialog being available in some way.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2021 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about using the elements list on a page with a large quantity of information
 
The link I sent as an example doesn’t have anything to do with Windows live mail, other than I was using it as the interface to send the message to the list.  I was trying to access the elements list on a web page in Microsoft Edge.
 
Louise


Re: Question about using the elements list on a page with a large quantity of information

Louise Pfau
 

The link I sent as an example doesn’t have anything to do with Windows live mail, other than I was using it as the interface to send the message to the list.  I was trying to access the elements list on a web page in Microsoft Edge.
 
Louise


Re: microsoft says that there is a bug in the edge brouser

Louise Pfau
 

I've found that if you press ENTER after pressing the APPLICATIONS key to access the context menu on a download link for example, then the menu items will come up. The information is not originally reported. I suspect that the bug will be fixed now that the Microsoft engineering department is aware of it.

Louise


Re: Question about using the elements list on a page with a large quantity of information

Gene
 

I should change what I said. If you are reading mail as plain text, you shouldn’t hear that the list dialog is unavailable.  You shouldn’t hear anything when you use the command NVDA key f7 because you aren’t in browse mode.
 
You might as well try what I said but since you hear an announcement that the list dialog is unavailable, I don’t know why.  It should be available when you are using Browse mode.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2021 5:28 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about using the elements list on a page with a large quantity of information
 
If it is unavailable, you are almost certainly reading mail as plain text.  To test this, open a message, then use the command alt shift n.  This will cause the opened message to display as HTMl.  If you close and reopen the message, you will have to use the command again to get it to display as HTML.  You can change settings in Windows Live Mail to have all mail display as HTML but you may want to use this command where you want this done instead.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2021 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about using the elements list on a page with a large quantity of information
 
I think that it would be helpful to have NVDA say something like "Loading
elements list", similar to how it indicates that a web page is loading in a
browser.  I've put the url to the page I was trying to work with below my
signiture.  When I tryed to access the Hyperlink dialog in Windows live
mail, it indicated that it was unavailable.  I have done it successfully in
Microsoft Word 2007, although I know both the programs are unsupported.  I'm
working with Windows 10 Version 21H1 (OS Build 19043.1052) and Microsoft
EdgeVersion 91.0.864.59 (Official build) (64-bit)

Thanks,

Louise
https://www.gutenberg.org/browse/authors/w

-----Original Message-----
From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2021 1:31 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about using the elements list on a page with a
large quantity of information

No, maybe not. Well yes, but maybe  "loading elements, please wait" or
something. Thoughts?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke Davis
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 10:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about using the elements list on a page with a
large quantity of information

Would it be helpful to have NVDA say "building elements list", or the
progress beeps, or similar while this is happening?

Luke

















Re: Question about using the elements list on a page with a large quantity of information

Gene
 

If it is unavailable, you are almost certainly reading mail as plain text.  To test this, open a message, then use the command alt shift n.  This will cause the opened message to display as HTMl.  If you close and reopen the message, you will have to use the command again to get it to display as HTML.  You can change settings in Windows Live Mail to have all mail display as HTML but you may want to use this command where you want this done instead.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2021 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about using the elements list on a page with a large quantity of information
 
I think that it would be helpful to have NVDA say something like "Loading
elements list", similar to how it indicates that a web page is loading in a
browser.  I've put the url to the page I was trying to work with below my
signiture.  When I tryed to access the Hyperlink dialog in Windows live
mail, it indicated that it was unavailable.  I have done it successfully in
Microsoft Word 2007, although I know both the programs are unsupported.  I'm
working with Windows 10 Version 21H1 (OS Build 19043.1052) and Microsoft
EdgeVersion 91.0.864.59 (Official build) (64-bit)

Thanks,

Louise
https://www.gutenberg.org/browse/authors/w

-----Original Message-----
From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2021 1:31 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about using the elements list on a page with a
large quantity of information

No, maybe not. Well yes, but maybe  "loading elements, please wait" or
something. Thoughts?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke Davis
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 10:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about using the elements list on a page with a
large quantity of information

Would it be helpful to have NVDA say "building elements list", or the
progress beeps, or similar while this is happening?

Luke

















Re: Question about using the elements list on a page with a large quantity of information

Louise Pfau
 

I think that it would be helpful to have NVDA say something like "Loading elements list", similar to how it indicates that a web page is loading in a browser. I've put the url to the page I was trying to work with below my signiture. When I tryed to access the Hyperlink dialog in Windows live mail, it indicated that it was unavailable. I have done it successfully in Microsoft Word 2007, although I know both the programs are unsupported. I'm working with Windows 10 Version 21H1 (OS Build 19043.1052) and Microsoft EdgeVersion 91.0.864.59 (Official build) (64-bit)

Thanks,

Louise
https://www.gutenberg.org/browse/authors/w

-----Original Message-----
From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2021 1:31 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about using the elements list on a page with a large quantity of information

No, maybe not. Well yes, but maybe "loading elements, please wait" or
something. Thoughts?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke Davis
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 10:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about using the elements list on a page with a
large quantity of information

Would it be helpful to have NVDA say "building elements list", or the
progress beeps, or similar while this is happening?

Luke


Re: microsoft says that there is a bug in the edge brouser

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Brian,

Did you try my work around to get the context menu to read?  It involved going into edit mode and tabbing to the desired link and then right clicking and/or if you want the basic context menu such as: back, forward, source and so on, then move to a blank area of the screen and switch to edit mode and right click.  This while a bit clumsy, does work for me.

On 6/29/2021 2:59 PM, Brian Sackrider wrote:
I just got a call from microsoft about my opend case and their enginers and they said that there is a bug in edge thats why screen readers are not reading the context menu.  They will call me when they have a fix for the problem.  The problem is with edge so reinstalling my windows would not have fixt the problem.  When the problem is with other users it's not a problem with my windows so I chould not have been told toreinstall my windows. If theproblem would have been only with my windows and no one elses then I might have to reinstall my windows.     windows   Running the nvda com redigistery fixing tool would not have fixt the problem.  The problem was a bug in edge so nothing I would have done would have fixt the problem.  The problem is not always with the userit is on their end.

Brian Sackrider.




--
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grevous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!


Re: microsoft says that there is a bug in the edge brouser

 

Well at least they admit there is a problem.

Since edge is on the chromium brouser, the fix will be in the next update.

Edge updates every time chrome updates unless its an out of band update that goes out.

You will get an update either on patch tuesday, or within a week or maybe a little later.

I had the same situation with office and after lenghthy conversations with microsoft got told by the enginiers that I'd get an update at the end of the week.

So you may get the same deal.

On 30/06/2021 6:59 am, Brian Sackrider wrote:
I just got a call from microsoft about my opend case and their enginers and they said that there is a bug in edge thats why screen readers are not reading the context menu.  They will call me when they have a fix for the problem.  The problem is with edge so reinstalling my windows would not have fixt the problem.  When the problem is with other users it's not a problem with my windows so I chould not have been told toreinstall my windows. If theproblem would have been only with my windows and no one elses then I might have to reinstall my windows.     windows   Running the nvda com redigistery fixing tool would not have fixt the problem.  The problem was a bug in edge so nothing I would have done would have fixt the problem.  The problem is not always with the userit is on their end.

Brian Sackrider.





.


Re: Question about using the elements list on a page with a large quantity of information

Gene
 

I am what?  And what is my usual answer for anything web based?  and if whatever you say I am saying is wrong, why is it wrong?
 
I can’t discuss something where nothing is defined or explained.  While I don’t want to get into a lengthy debate, I’ll present, explain and defend my position once you explain what you object to and why. 
 
At this point, though I think I know what you are objecting to, I don’t want to comment on my guess about what you are objecting to, nor have you explained why. 
 
I think I can explain my position in a message that isn’t too long and if the message is long, I’ll indeicate that at the beginning so people may skip it if they want.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2021 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about using the elements list on a page with a large quantity of information
 

Actually, yes you are, that seems to be your normal answer for everything web based,  and we’re hear to tell you that this is not the case 99 percent of the time.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 8:41 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about using the elements list on a page with a large quantity of information

 

I am not writing to get into a debate with you about this but I will say, in order that what I'm saying be accurately understood that I did not limit myself to discussing the find command.  In my first message, I specifically discussed moving in other ways such as move by heading or by heading level.  I am not obsessed with the find command. 

 

Gene

On 6/21/2021 10:31 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

Hi, Brian,

 

I'm in total agreement with you here. What if a person is on an unfamiliar page and he or she doesn't know what to look for? If I know what I'm looking for, then I'll use the find command but that doesn't always work. For instance, when I go to the Heart of the Nation site to hear the Catholic Mass online, I use the elements list with insert f-7 and hit S to find Sunday Mass. I don't know why this person is so obsessed with the find command. Like the old saying goes, there's more than one way to skin a cat. I won't say anything more.

 

Rosemarie

 

 

On 6/21/2021 8:15 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Mon, Jun 21, 2021 at 10:58 AM, Gene wrote:

which adds support to my opinion that it is at times, perhaps more than realized, better to use find or to move by heading or other ways directly on the web page.

-
Gene, I really have no idea why it obsesses you so how any given individual user attempts to navigate a page.

Some people, and many of whom are likely to have been JAWS users, simply like the elements dialog which is as close as you get to the links dialog under JAWS.

Any page that has 4400-plus links is not going to be easily navigated, period.  Most web designers would never even begin to think of putting that many links on a single page.  This particular page was not designed either for beauty or efficiency, but is just a massive list of links arranged in very large chunks, alphabetically, depending on what the title of the movie happens to be.

You know how much I happen to like screen reader find and the use of the various quick navigation options, but others simply don't.  There is no right or wrong way here, simply the one that one prefers.  And if you're aware that you're going to have to wait for some seconds on pages with way, way, way more links than is typical for NVDA to build the elements list, and make that choice, there's nothing wrong with that choice.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043 

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Question about using the elements list on a page with a large quantity of information

Sarah k Alawami
 

No, maybe not. Well yes, but maybe "loading elements, please wait" or
something. Thoughts?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke Davis
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 10:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about using the elements list on a page with a
large quantity of information

Would it be helpful to have NVDA say "building elements list", or the
progress beeps, or similar while this is happening?

Luke


Re: Question about using the elements list on a page with a large quantity of information

Sarah k Alawami
 

Actually, yes you are, that seems to be your normal answer for everything web based,  and we’re hear to tell you that this is not the case 99 percent of the time.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 8:41 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about using the elements list on a page with a large quantity of information

 

I am not writing to get into a debate with you about this but I will say, in order that what I'm saying be accurately understood that I did not limit myself to discussing the find command.  In my first message, I specifically discussed moving in other ways such as move by heading or by heading level.  I am not obsessed with the find command. 

 

Gene

On 6/21/2021 10:31 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

Hi, Brian,

 

I'm in total agreement with you here. What if a person is on an unfamiliar page and he or she doesn't know what to look for? If I know what I'm looking for, then I'll use the find command but that doesn't always work. For instance, when I go to the Heart of the Nation site to hear the Catholic Mass online, I use the elements list with insert f-7 and hit S to find Sunday Mass. I don't know why this person is so obsessed with the find command. Like the old saying goes, there's more than one way to skin a cat. I won't say anything more.

 

Rosemarie

 

 

On 6/21/2021 8:15 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Mon, Jun 21, 2021 at 10:58 AM, Gene wrote:

which adds support to my opinion that it is at times, perhaps more than realized, better to use find or to move by heading or other ways directly on the web page.

-
Gene, I really have no idea why it obsesses you so how any given individual user attempts to navigate a page.

Some people, and many of whom are likely to have been JAWS users, simply like the elements dialog which is as close as you get to the links dialog under JAWS.

Any page that has 4400-plus links is not going to be easily navigated, period.  Most web designers would never even begin to think of putting that many links on a single page.  This particular page was not designed either for beauty or efficiency, but is just a massive list of links arranged in very large chunks, alphabetically, depending on what the title of the movie happens to be.

You know how much I happen to like screen reader find and the use of the various quick navigation options, but others simply don't.  There is no right or wrong way here, simply the one that one prefers.  And if you're aware that you're going to have to wait for some seconds on pages with way, way, way more links than is typical for NVDA to build the elements list, and make that choice, there's nothing wrong with that choice.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: microsoft says that there is a bug in the edge brouser

 

On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 03:22 PM, Gene wrote:
it became clear from discussion on the list that the problem is a bug, probably either in Windows or Edge and not in NVDA.
-
Days ago.  And the workaround, for the moment, is to use an alternative browser.  And the list of alternatives for those using Edge is immense.

This is not a show stopper as far as being able to get your work done or just browsing the web.  Bugs happen, fixes happen, and between the two it's often necessary to use workarounds.

If you liked Edge then you'll be perfectly comfortable with Google Chrome, Brave, Vivaldi, or any of a number of other Chromium-based browsers.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: microsoft says that there is a bug in the edge brouser

Gene
 

You often get better help from lists like this one than from support staff. 
 
In the current example, it became clear from discussion on the list that the problem is a bug, probably either in Windows or Edge and not in NVDA.  Many people investigated the problem who are list members and this or that work around was presented. 
 
The disability service is not the department at Microsoft that invewstigates and fixes accessibility problems.  They are unlikely to have known about the problem since it was new. 
 
Later, as the problem was investigated by Microsoft, a fix would have been known and implemented in either Windows or Edge by the department responsible for implementing accessibility.
 
I’m not saying that the person you spoke to took the right approach.  I think that, when you reported that this was a problem many others experienced, the person should have investigated and made no recommendations before doing so. 
 
Having said that, I hope this experience gives you an understanding of when using the disability service is reasonably likely to benefit you and when it is unlikely.
 
Gene.

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2021 1:59 PM
Subject: [nvda] microsoft says that there is a bug in the edge brouser
 
I just got a call from microsoft about my opend case and their enginers
and they said that there is a bug in edge thats why screen readers are
not reading the context menu.  They will call me when they have a fix
for the problem.  The problem is with edge so reinstalling my windows
would not have fixt the problem.  When the problem is with other users
it's not a problem with my windows so I chould not have been told
toreinstall my windows. If theproblem would have been only with my
windows and no one elses then I might have to reinstall my windows.    
windows   Running the nvda com redigistery fixing tool would not have
fixt the problem.  The problem was a bug in edge so nothing I would have
done would have fixt the problem.  The problem is not always with the
userit is on their end.

Brian Sackrider.






Re: Question about using the elements list on a page with a large quantity of information

Sarah k Alawami
 

Actually I believe it does and se’ve surmised it does even on more powerful machines for what ever reason, maybe it’s trying to build a DB of the page, I dunno.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 8:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about using the elements list on a page with a large quantity of information

 

It doesn’t obsess me.  You are running a powerful computer and it took a long time.  I’m raising the question of whether people running far less powerful machines have delays when opening the dialog. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 10:15 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about using the elements list on a page with a large quantity of information

 

On Mon, Jun 21, 2021 at 10:58 AM, Gene wrote:

which adds support to my opinion that it is at times, perhaps more than realized, better to use find or to move by heading or other ways directly on the web page.

-
Gene, I really have no idea why it obsesses you so how any given individual user attempts to navigate a page.

Some people, and many of whom are likely to have been JAWS users, simply like the elements dialog which is as close as you get to the links dialog under JAWS.

Any page that has 4400-plus links is not going to be easily navigated, period.  Most web designers would never even begin to think of putting that many links on a single page.  This particular page was not designed either for beauty or efficiency, but is just a massive list of links arranged in very large chunks, alphabetically, depending on what the title of the movie happens to be.

You know how much I happen to like screen reader find and the use of the various quick navigation options, but others simply don't.  There is no right or wrong way here, simply the one that one prefers.  And if you're aware that you're going to have to wait for some seconds on pages with way, way, way more links than is typical for NVDA to build the elements list, and make that choice, there's nothing wrong with that choice.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


microsoft says that there is a bug in the edge brouser

Brian Sackrider
 

I just got a call from microsoft about my opend case and their enginers and they said that there is a bug in edge thats why screen readers are not reading the context menu.  They will call me when they have a fix for the problem.  The problem is with edge so reinstalling my windows would not have fixt the problem.  When the problem is with other users it's not a problem with my windows so I chould not have been told toreinstall my windows. If theproblem would have been only with my windows and no one elses then I might have to reinstall my windows.     windows   Running the nvda com redigistery fixing tool would not have fixt the problem.  The problem was a bug in edge so nothing I would have done would have fixt the problem.  The problem is not always with the userit is on their end.

Brian Sackrider.


Re: NVDA not working with Chrome

 

On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 01:27 PM, Luke Davis wrote:
A note to anyone else reading this: this is specific advice, to this user only, not a general suggestion.
-
And a big, big thanks for making this point.  I have been the kind recipient of custom builds for testing on several occasions in the past.  Also, on other venues, particularly when diagnostics are involved, it's often requested that things be tried that have the potential to be out and out damaging on systems other than the one being diagnosed.

Luke so happens to be an "NVDA Insider" whose advice can, and should, be trusted when certain sensitive diagnostic steps are involved.  And the first and foremost piece of advice here is, "this is specific advice, to this user only, not a general suggestion. There's no reason for anyone else to try this . . ."
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Preliminary: NVDA runs happily on Windows 11, issues being investigated

g melconian <gmelconian619@...>
 

That’s true.  Do agree with joseph on this one. 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2021 10:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Preliminary: NVDA runs happily on Windows 11, issues being investigated

 

Hi,

Windows 11 uses a completely different sound scheme, which is a bit softer than Windows 10.

Let's discuss Windows 11 on a different forum so we won't clutter the list with preview build feedback.

Cheers,

Joseph

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