Date   

Re: Question about using the elements list on a page with a large quantity of information

 

On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 05:23 PM, Gene wrote:
I’m discussing typical pages such as The new York Times home page which has about 104 links. 
-
So, Gene, you've chosen to ignore the exact context under which the topic started.  I have the same results as you do for virtually any "typical" page, and a NYT page is quite typical.  But that's not the context that was initially established nor being asked about.  That's critically important.

A "special circumstance" of a page characterized by a number of elements much, much higher than is typical was clearly specified as the area of problem and concern.  What happens in typical pages is not relevant to that question.
 
That's why I was thrilled when Giles Turnbull gave a direct link to a page that is akin to the one originally asked about (but appears to require login privileges to actually get to).  Try it on:  https://jeff.tdrealms.com/Described_Movies.md
That's a representative example of the sort of page being asked about.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Question about using the elements list on a page with a large quantity of information

Gene
 

I’m discussing typical pages such as The new York Times home page which has about 104 links.  I should correct my estimate for accuracy.  I checked just now and it took about one second to bring up the links list and something like one and one half seconds to bring up the headings list when I used the radio buttons to move to it.
 
I have no idea what people generally experience with newer machines.
 
Gene

Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2021 4:15 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about using the elements list on a page with a large quantity of information
 
On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 05:11 PM, Gene wrote:
When I open the links list, it takes about one and one half seconds for the list to open.
-
On the page:  https://jeff.tdrealms.com/Described_Movies.md?

I've got machines that are fairly new, and fairly fast, and for a page like that, with over 4K links, it takes way more than a second or two for the Elements dialog to open.  As I noted on June 21st:  I just tested out the page Giles offered (for which I thank you) on my machine, an HP Envy 15 TS laptop with an i7-4700MQ processor, 16GB RAM, and an SSD, and it took NVDA about 8 seconds to present the Elements List for that page.  That's a definitely noticeable pause between hitting INS+F7 and the resulting dialog being presented.
 
I cannot imagine older hardware being faster, though stranger things have happened.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Question about using the elements list on a page with a large quantity of information

 

On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 05:11 PM, Gene wrote:
When I open the links list, it takes about one and one half seconds for the list to open.
-
On the page:  https://jeff.tdrealms.com/Described_Movies.md?

I've got machines that are fairly new, and fairly fast, and for a page like that, with over 4K links, it takes way more than a second or two for the Elements dialog to open.  As I noted on June 21st:  I just tested out the page Giles offered (for which I thank you) on my machine, an HP Envy 15 TS laptop with an i7-4700MQ processor, 16GB RAM, and an SSD, and it took NVDA about 8 seconds to present the Elements List for that page.  That's a definitely noticeable pause between hitting INS+F7 and the resulting dialog being presented.
 
I cannot imagine older hardware being faster, though stranger things have happened.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Question about using the elements list on a page with a large quantity of information

Gene
 

I can’t discuss what happens today when computers are faster than mine.  But my computer was a moderately fast machine for its time eleven years ago.  When I open the links list, it takes about one and one half seconds for the list to open.  If I shift tab and move to another radio button such as headings, it then takes perhaps three seconds for that list to appear. 
 
I am not making any assumptions about what other people experience.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2021 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about using the elements list on a page with a large quantity of information
 
On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 04:48 PM, Louise Pfau wrote:
I haven’t tried to access any other sites with something in the region of thousands of elements (links, headings, etc).
-
That's because no actually "designed" rather than generated web pages would contain thousands of elements.  When I checked out that page, while the layout is perfectly readable, it goes on and on and on and on.  It appears that a database was dumped, wholesale, on to a single web page.  This is just not typical, at all.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Question about using the elements list on a page with a large quantity of information

 

On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 04:48 PM, Louise Pfau wrote:
I haven’t tried to access any other sites with something in the region of thousands of elements (links, headings, etc). 
-
That's because no actually "designed" rather than generated web pages would contain thousands of elements.  When I checked out that page, while the layout is perfectly readable, it goes on and on and on and on.  It appears that a database was dumped, wholesale, on to a single web page.  This is just not typical, at all.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Question about using the elements list on a page with a large quantity of information

Louise Pfau
 

I haven’t tried to access any other sites with something in the region of thousands of elements (links, headings, etc).  It seems like there is a time lag in processing that amount of information while creating the elements list.  I don’t seem to have problems with smaller web pages.
 
Louise


Re: hyper v accessibility for general virtual machine use

 

Ok I'll redo that on chat later.


On 1/07/2021 6:47 am, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 02:36 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
Brian you know full well I can't do that anymore due to me being a really stupid boy with my temper a couple years back.
-
I had not recalled.  Then move it to the Chat Subgroup.  It's not an NVDA, JAWS, or Narrator question.  It's about whether or not a specific part of Windows 10 is accessible, the likely answers to which would be, "Yes," or, "No," in its entirety or "partially," and likely having nothing to do with the screen reader being used.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: hyper v accessibility for general virtual machine use

 

On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 02:36 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
Brian you know full well I can't do that anymore due to me being a really stupid boy with my temper a couple years back.
-
I had not recalled.  Then move it to the Chat Subgroup.  It's not an NVDA, JAWS, or Narrator question.  It's about whether or not a specific part of Windows 10 is accessible, the likely answers to which would be, "Yes," or, "No," in its entirety or "partially," and likely having nothing to do with the screen reader being used.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: hyper v accessibility for general virtual machine use

 

Brian you know full well I can't do that anymore due to me being a really stupid boy with my temper a couple years back.

I've improved but I don't think anyone will let me back in now.



On 1/07/2021 6:31 am, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 01:43 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
What is the accessibility of hyper v for virtual machine creation and usage in windows 10 pro and higher?
-
This is really not, in any way, an NVDA related question, but one directly about Windows 10.  Anything screen reader related will be incidental, at best, and likely apply no matter what screen reader you might be using.

Directing this sort of question to the Windows 10 for Screen Reader Users group (without the backstory - it's unnecessary) will likely get you an answer far more rapidly.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: hyper v accessibility for general virtual machine use

 

On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 01:43 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
What is the accessibility of hyper v for virtual machine creation and usage in windows 10 pro and higher?
-
This is really not, in any way, an NVDA related question, but one directly about Windows 10.  Anything screen reader related will be incidental, at best, and likely apply no matter what screen reader you might be using.

Directing this sort of question to the Windows 10 for Screen Reader Users group (without the backstory - it's unnecessary) will likely get you an answer far more rapidly.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


hyper v accessibility for general virtual machine use

 

Hi.

Note since I know users on hear include a particular user that managed to get me to get rid of a certain group to stop him pestering me about this only answer if you know exactly what I want.

If you think its going to be off topic on here answer off the list.

The question is simple enough.

Its got a backstory but I will put the question first.

What is the accessibility of hyper v for virtual machine creation and usage in windows 10 pro and higher?

Can you switch back and forth between a machine and the host system?

And what are the shortcut keys for it and wwhere do you find those.


Backstory follows.


In the year 2015 or there abouts, I started looking for a new system.

it wasn't till 2017 I got myself an hp duel drive laptop with an amd 2000 cpu and 16gb ram.

My plan was to use it for virtual machines so I have got all the virtual access stuff in bios activated.

I had heard for ages and ages about vmware and that it would be one of the best machines in which to realise my creative spirit.


It was accessible and I could use it.

I bought the new workstation 15 at the time paying 400 bucks for it, its a lot cheaper now but oh well.

My plan was of course to use it and be done with it.

I did use it on linux to fiddle with it and found it ok.

There were some issues though.

At least in the player I could not get edit fields to read like descriptions and the like and name fields.

The menus did work but not everything did.

In workstation I got menus working but not much else did.

As time went on I decided to test the enhanced keyboard feature out for linux to see what it did.

I did that.

One day I got the notification to get vmware workstation 16.

I did, however during install I neglected to check the box to update enhanced keyboard which I had previously installed.

Before the system was due to restart, I tried the program again, hoping things had changed but no luck.

On restart the keyboard stopped working.

In fact all keyboards just didn't work anymore.

If it hadn't been for sightling help I would have no choice but to reformat.

Luckily I had sightling help and ran a restore point I had created just before the upgrade.

Promptly after restoring I completely removed vmware from my system and as many leftovers as I could without entering the registry.

I then went to vmware's site to report the issue.

Firstly I was told to login with my vmware account which I had forgotten the password for and couldn't get it to reset.

Luckily I remembered and logged in. only to find that I would need a support contract.

There wasn't any other way to get in touch with vmware, so I had only 2 options.

I was just about mad enough to post all my vmware serials to a crack site I was that mad.

And to be honest if I could contact vmware I'd ask for a refund of both vmware versions since thats wasted cash.

But they can't be contacted so I did the only thing left to me.

I have deleted all coppies of vmware and all my licences and my login information which I don't want to remember and got out of vmware completely.

It was the start of covid 19 and I didn't want to have to reformat because of some buggy virtual machine software.

I have thought about virtualbox, but after my experience with vmware I am not sure if I will want to run an installed third party virtual machine again so maybe it would be portable.

However before I try that again, I want to see what windows own internal and hopefully fully compatible and less likely to screw up my configuration vm software is like which brings me back full circle.

What is hyper v like either as windows sandbox, what is it like hosting a linux distribution, and what is it like hosting a windows distribution.

Is it accessible like vmware is or is it better.

I don't want more issues but I feel a bit safer using a system which is part of the current os I have.

I always like pro and I always will have pro licences at the same time if its to much trouble then I won't bother.

At the same time, since covid has started jobs are a bit harder to get even online so if I can I'd like to get back to virtual machines again.

Obviously vmware is out of the question.

I want to get back to running windows 7, xp, 10, and linux of various types.

I also want to enter the insider program again.


The only way I can do it on this system at least is a virtual machine.

I have time to waste over winter a time when I usually have jobs.

I don't want to be inside during the hot summer months thats when I want to be outside.

But its freezing cold and I have the time and energy to work mmy guts out.


Windows App Essentials (formerly Windows 10 App Essentials) 21.06.1 released #addonrelease

 

Hi all,

Windows App Essentials (formerly Windows 10 App Essentials) 21.06.1 is now available (not available through Add-on Updater yet):

https://github.com/josephsl/wintenApps/releases/download/21.06.1/wintenApps-21.06.1.nvda-addon

 

This version is in response to a potential scenario where users might install stable version of the add-on on Windows 11 (Insider Preview); Windows 11 support is experimental at this time. If this applies to you, a warning will be shown, reminding you that Windows 11 features can change without notice prior to general availability. If the add-on does get installed, NVDA will recognize Windows 11 and record this fact every time it starts. My recommendation is that you don’t install stable version of Windows App Essentials add-on until I tell you to.

 

Also, this is the last add-on release to support Windows 10 2004 (May 2020 Update), and don’t worry if the add-on still reports itself as “Windows 10 App Essentials”.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: NVDA not working with Chrome

 

On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 11:02 AM, Hidden User wrote:
updated to the latest version of windows and, the issue is resolved!
-
Which is precisely the reason that our group rules state that only in-support software can be discussed here and should be used.  And I do realize that several earlier builds of Windows 10 are still in support.

But this is the perfect illustration of the complex interplay of variables between an operating system and the application software running on it.  Virtually all complex software, and screen readers in particular, are going to be issuing system calls to the underlying operating system with great regularity.  It really is important to keep everything as updated as you can, while allowing time, in the case of Windows, for initial shake-out to take place.

But by the time the vast majority of end users are even offered the latest feature update for download and install it's usually well past the shake-out period.  That is unless you happen to be the very rare exception that gets put into one of the very early update cohorts, in which case just don't activate the download and install link for a couple of weeks until the initial shake-out has occurred.

Avoiding updates as a general practice is not a good computer maintenance strategy, and most often causes far more problems than it prevents.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


changing release cycle of NVDA

 

Hello. I have heard that Microsoft will go to a one a year release cycle for Windows major releases. If this is true, how will this impact on releases of our favorite screen reader?


Will this release cycle change from four a year to two or three releases a year? It would make the life of developers easier if it were to go to fewer releases. Just my thoughts.


Re: NVDA not working with Chrome

Hidden User <huser3476@...>
 

Hi,
updated to the latest version of windows and, the issue is resolved!
Thanks for all the support and guidance provided.

On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 at 19:21, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 12:45 AM, Hidden User wrote:
Does it have bugs?
-
The answer to that, for any software, is always, "Yes."  But it doesn't seem to have any that are rearing their ugly heads as far as most users are concerned.

You want to be on the latest version and build of Windows 10, period, once its initial shake out period (which is the first month to two after initial release date) is over.  Current Version is 21H1, Build 19043.1052.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: NVDA not working with Chrome

 

On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 12:45 AM, Hidden User wrote:
Does it have bugs?
-
The answer to that, for any software, is always, "Yes."  But it doesn't seem to have any that are rearing their ugly heads as far as most users are concerned.

You want to be on the latest version and build of Windows 10, period, once its initial shake out period (which is the first month to two after initial release date) is over.  Current Version is 21H1, Build 19043.1052.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Welcome to the NVDA Community Add-ons website - Direct Link #nvdaaddonsfeed

Mallard <mallard@...>
 

+1 million!


Ciao,

Ollie

On 29/06/2021 17:16, Brian Vogel wrote:
Thanks very, very much for this add-on.

I do this as a matter of course with the links to any of the stuff I have hosted on Google Drive so that those who click through/activate will not have to go through any nonsense beyond picking where they want to save the file being downloaded.   It is not a trivial issue to parse out the File Identifier and reconstruct that link by hand.

That this add-on works with all of the major cloud file sharing services and deals with tel: links is just incredibly handy.
--

Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043

/I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are./

      ~ Brian Vogel


Re: NVDA not working with Chrome

Hidden User <huser3476@...>
 

Hi,
thanks for that was a valuable feedback.
Also, also want ask you guise that should I update to latest windows 10 19043 build.
Does it have bugs?


On Tue, 29 Jun 2021 at 22:57, Luke Davis <luke@...> wrote:
Hidden User wrote:

> Used earlier version of NVDA

I would like to suggest the opposite.

Download the latest alpha version of NVDA from here.
https://ci.appveyor.com/project/nvaccess/nvda/build/alpha-23227,dbd6c119

Don't install it, just run the executable file, and when the window comes
up to ask install, make a portable version, or keep running (what is
called a temporary copy), do that--just select keep running.

Then, Press NVDA+n, followed by t, to get to the NVDA tools menu.
Next, choose the option for "Run COM Registration Fixing Tool", and follow the prompts.

We have just finished rebuilding the internals of that tool to fix more
problems, and to work much better on 64-bit Windows.

After you run that tool, quit NVDA, and start your existing installed copy
of 2020.4 again, and see if your problem is resolved.

A note to anyone else reading this: this is specific advice, to this user
only, not a general suggestion. There's no reason for anyone else to try
this unless you are having this exact problem

Luke






Re: Amateur programmer, looking to create accessible programs

Arnold Summers <arnoldsummerspbem@...>
 

Hi Sam,

Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. These are all great tips, and something I will definitely keep in mind. And you said you could say much more: Please do so! The more information I have to work with the better!

Arnold
 

On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 7:41 PM Sam Bushman <libertyroundtable@...> wrote:

Hey Arnold,

 

I didn’t write before because others on this list are much more qualified than I am.

However, since others didn’t focus on things I would mention I decided maybe my input would help as well.

 

When you write programs for the blind The following is way helpful:

 

If you use standard windows controls instead of custom controls screen readers have a much better ability to work well.

If you provide several ways to accomplish things in the app it’s much more helpful.

Meaning keyboard access to everything not just mouse access.

If you use standard tool tips for help.

If you make sure the tab key works well everywhere it’s much more helpful. Focusing on tab order in this case makes a huge difference.

Making sure to use text labels for things when graphics are used it’s helpful.

Meaning edit boxes with labels and other controls as well.

Making sure screens have text not just graphics is huge.

The more standard your windows screens are the easier it will be for us to use.

 

Some programmers actually have a setting in there software making much better access possible.

A great example of this is the Jarte application – it’s a simple word processor.

 

I could say much more but these ideas should get you started.

 

Thanks for thinking of us.

 

The point was made but I agree, we can test and help if you like also.

 

Sam

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Arnold Summers
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2021 5:55 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Amateur programmer, looking to create accessible programs

 

Joseph,

 

Your message was helpful, particularly the mentions of API's and GUI toolkits. It gives me something concrete to look into in the way of actual code. You gave me a lot to think about. Thank you! 

 

On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 5:00 PM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi all,

As Luke and others pointed out, there are lists dedicated to programming, and in case of NVDA specifically, there is NVDA Development list. I think both lists are good, but that won't solve the issue the original poster is looking into, and you can indeed create accessible GUI-based applications (although counterintuitive, NVDA is an accessible GUI-based application if you think about it). What I'm going to write comes from my experience as a programmer who spent years working on screen readers and have been advocating for accessibility and usability (like Luke, I'm blind, although I was a low vision user until my early teens, which was early 2000's):

As you may know, the first task of programming is looking for a problem to solve. The fact that you wish to write an app that is accessible is very notable, in that you may have found some issues you wish to solve by writing apps, along with looking at app design at the same time. So I'll assume you did your first task, so let's move onto design and accessibility aspects.

Accessibility is about designing products so it is approachable by different audiences (the task of actually using such products with help from assistive tools falls under "usability"). The question to ask when designing products with accessibility in mind is, "what are limitations and workarounds specific audiences need, and how can the product help bridge the gap that might be present for audiences?" For people with disabilities, the question falls under limitations of specific disabilities and tools that can expose your product functionality to specific audiences; for blind people, the obvious choice is using tools to help folks "see" screen content i.e. screen readers, magnifiers, color contrast, and so on; for deaf communities, using text to convey sounds, sign language output and what not. Then you would look for a way to make programs expose needed information so audiences (users) can use your product effectively, and one common scenario is using accessibility API's to communicate information to users of assistive technologies.

In GUI programming (something that's possible for blind people to do although with assistance if required), one would design data representation style (specific GUI controls for things such as text, forms, and many others). Although things may look colorful and intuitive for the majority (the term "majority" depends on language, country, and culture), without effort from humans and tools (along with mindset), the product would not be discoverable (wqord of mouth, review,s etc.), approachable (promotion, demos, etc.), and accessible (these three things must work together when accessibility is concerned, because people with disabilities are some of the most neglected communities when it comes to access to information (what I would term "information blackout"), although that is changing).

So to enhance how the product is seen by people with disabilities and to make them accessible (and usable), API's such as Microsoft Active Accessibility, UI Automation, IAccessible2 were created to help programmers design products with accessibility and usability in mind. These API's consist of at least three parts:

  1. Client/consumer: an assistive technology such as screen readers (including NVDA) is an accessibility client. The job of a client is to ask accessibility API's for information about a control a user is working on, and to perform specific actions required to help people use specific applications such as reading state changes.
  2. Server/producer: the application in question is a server because it serves clients by exposing crucial information for use by different assistive technologies. For screen readers, this means using text labels for graphical buttons, using facilities such as accessibility events to communicate activities such as screen content changes. How such info is communicated to users is the job of the client (assistive technology), and it is up to users as to what to do with information coming from the app.
  3. Accessibility bridge: API's such as MSAA and UIA serve as a bridge between servers (apps) and clients (assistive technologies). The job of accessibility API bridges is to serve as a "middle man" between users and apps by exposing server-side information (whatever the app says) in a way clients can understand, process, and present to users. At the same time, bridges accept interaction tasks (such as keyboard input) from users, communicates these facts to applications, and see what the app says.

A basic grasp of accessibility concepts is one of the steps involved in improving app accessibility (the first obvious step is understanding the culture the target audience comes from, a task you have accomplished well based on the original post). The next task is actually using assistive technologies and apps to better understand what folks are talking about. After that, it comes down to designing programs in a way that is accessible for diverse audiences such as adding labels for GUI controls and using accessibility API's to expose needed information (if using GUI toolkits, I recommend using ones known to have high accessibility marks such as wxWidgets and more recent versions of QT and WinUI/XAML). And don't forget to test your ideas with target audiences (testing, gathering feedback, etc.) early because it is more costly to "improve" accessibility later.

Before I close, one thing you may wish to ponder: if you think carefully about it, NVDA and other screen reader friends are sophisticated data processors. Their job is to gather needed information for blind people with help from facilities provided by the operating system + accessibility API's + apps + standards, process gathered information in a way suitable for presentation through multiple channels (speech, braille, sound, etc.), and presenting information to users. That's the core of screen readers, and when folks talk about screen reader development, we are talking about refining these elements (supporting newer accessibility standards, dealing with apps with no control labels, support for text-to-speech engines and braille displays, keeping an eye on operating system changes, etc.). Of course folks can customize screen readers to their liking (settings, code, add-ons, etc.). at the same time, app accessibility and usablity falls upon the responsibility of app developers, made better when they collaborate with users (this is why I always ask users to send feedback to developers to point out possible accessibility improvements).

Hope this helps a lot.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: microsoft says that there is a bug in the edge brouser

 

On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 05:40 PM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
This while a bit clumsy, does work for me.
-
Ron,

No, I did not, but that's because I don't depend on a screen reader.  I understand, perfectly, that it's different if you do.

Yours is another workaround, and it's a fine one if someone wants to use it.  I do know it would drive me crazy if using the screen reader and I'd far prefer to punt to an alternative browser, whether Firefox, or one of the Chromium-based ones, until the fix to Edge occurs, and you can be certain it will occur.

Regression bugs are a fact of life, and not only in the context of those who use screen readers.  It's precisely the reason that those of us who are technology teachers always say you must, not should, but must, have a "Plan B," even if you don't like it nearly as well as your usual "Plan A," so that if something breaks in Plan A you can keep working until that break is fixed.  And when it comes to web browsers in particular, there is no reason that anyone should end up being the proverbial "deer in the headlights" if their chosen browser breaks.  There are just too many very, very similar options these days, all of which are screen reader accessible. 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 

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