Date   

Re: NVDA volume not adjustable in windows volume control

David Goldfield
 

Casey, what synthesizer are you using with NVDA?

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

JAWS Certified, 2019

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

 

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Casey Mathews
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 9:50 AM
To: nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] NVDA volume not adjustable in windows volume control

 

Hey all.

Right now in the volume control if I have NVDA set to sound mapper or headphones I am unable to adjust the volume in the volume control. When I do the volume for NVDA jumps back to 27%. This is 3% less than my normal audio in case that helps.

If I switch NVDA output to speakers I can then adjust the volume control.

I have disabled any volume add-ons and made sure that audio ducking is off.

I can adjust the volume in NVDA speech controls with no problem.

I am running NVDA 2021.1

Windows 10 21H1 (64-bit) build 19043.1110

 

 

Casey Mathews

WebFriendlyHelp.com: Makin’ your tech life easy!

 

 

 


Re: Adding more add-ons to the core

Arlene
 

Hi Sarah, what version of windows are you using? If its ten. That’s bad.  These windows computers are cheaply made so you’d upgrade to the next version of windows.  I had an Acer for windows 7 box for 7 almost 8 years.  It died and I had to get a windows ten witch I now have.  I’ve had this computer for over 2 years and its starting to slow down. 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: July 19, 2021 2:57 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Adding more add-ons to the core

 

OH yeah. I agree. I'm not really good with this software stuff but I'm already saving up for a new system as mine is starting to die, and that one should be able to support windows what ever by then and nvda what ever by then.

Blessings and happy Monday

On 19 Jul 2021, at 12:44, Brian Vogel wrote:

If you are a computer user it is incumbent on you to read the proverbial writing on the wall, and as it changes, and proceed accordingly.  You ignore it at your own peril.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Yep.  Discipline.  Accountability.  Joy.  Fun.  Responsibility.

That's what life is about.  And in that order.

        ~ Liza Minnelli

 

 


Re: Adding more add-ons to the core

Sarah k Alawami
 

OH yeah. I agree. I'm not really good with this software stuff but I'm already saving up for a new system as mine is starting to die, and that one should be able to support windows what ever by then and nvda what ever by then.

Blessings and happy Monday

On 19 Jul 2021, at 12:44, Brian Vogel wrote:

If you are a computer user it is incumbent on you to read the proverbial writing on the wall, and as it changes, and proceed accordingly.  You ignore it at your own peril.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Yep.  Discipline.  Accountability.  Joy.  Fun.  Responsibility.

That's what life is about.  And in that order.

        ~ Liza Minnelli

 


Re: Winamp add on?

JM Casey
 

I have never had those keys speak, either using the add-on or not using it. In fact the add-on really doesn't seem to do anything over here. But I wouldn’t' want those keys to be spoken anyway so yeah, maybe there is a way to turn it off -- I'd certainly want one. The only feedback I really want from winamp is the entries on the playlist as I move through them and time indicators would also be useful to be spoken with a key press.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Roger Stewart
Sent: July 19, 2021 10:49 AM
To: NVDA List <nvda@groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] Winamp add on?

I've just noticed that for some reason, the play, pause and stop keys aren't saying anything. They were working for several days after installing nvda 21.1, but yesterday they suddenly stopped speaking. Did I hit some hidden key that turned them off? Most of the other functions like volume setting and elapsed and remaining time are speaking correctly.


Roger


Re: Adding more add-ons to the core

 

If you are a computer user it is incumbent on you to read the proverbial writing on the wall, and as it changes, and proceed accordingly.  You ignore it at your own peril.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Yep.  Discipline.  Accountability.  Joy.  Fun.  Responsibility.

That's what life is about.  And in that order.

        ~ Liza Minnelli

 


Re: Adding more add-ons to the core

Sarah k Alawami
 

I’d personally say get rid of windows 7 support right now. Windows 10 is in about 5 years so then windows 10 support could be gone then too. If you can’t upgrade, that’s on you, some of us cannot, but still, no way to get around it.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 11:27 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Adding more add-ons to the core

 

Well I agree on that jean.

The interactive fiction one now works as well as a few others but if this is going to be each year well who knows.

As for win7 support, I don't know if we should keep it.

I mean I am a win7 user, but certainly after windows 10 reaches end of support we will probably have to abandon win7 support at some point.

So maybe we keep win7 support till the end of enterprize support whenever that is.

 

 

On 20/07/2021 2:33 am, Gene wrote:

A yearly disruption being what is expected, I submit that some systematic means be undertaken to determine what the most important and widely used add-ons are and that those functions be built into the core.  I’m not saying that the add-on can be directly added, but the functionality can. 

 

I don’t use many add-ons but I expect that there is swome very important functionality that relies on ad-ons.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Joseph Lee

Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 9:07 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Adding more add-ons to the core

 

Hi,

actually, backward compatibility breaks will be an annual thing, according to NV Access. The reason being to modernize NVDA, to keep up with technology and market conditions, and in case we move to newer Python and dependencies, to take advantage of features offered in newer releases.

For now modifying the manifest will suffice. But as I hinted in this thread, the next big thing for add-ons community is already in the works, and when that happens, add-on code itself must be modified. Specifically, a crucial part of many add-ons will receive a syntax update due to internal changes to how specific constants are represented, and as a result, the old way of doing things is going away next year. This change partly stems from a desire for NVDA to conform more closely with certain programming practices, namely using a more elegant way of displaying a collection of constants or flags called an enumeration (enum for short). Old NvDA releases could not take advantage of it as enumerations were not introduced until Python 3.4, so in a way, NVDA source code is still in the midst of a Python 3.7 transition ,although focused on modernizing things.

Making things a bit complicated is that Python developers decided that the programming language will receive annual updates. Ideally NVDA should be on Python 3.9 by now, but during the course of a brief experiment with Python 3.8 earlier this year, critical issues with speech synthesizer support (specifically, SAPI4 support) and Windows 7 and 8.x support were found that prevented us (NVDA contributors) from moving to newer Python releases (for now). At some point I expect NVDA to move onto newer Python releases to take advantage of speed and code improvements, which will once again break add-ons, and since it is very risky to break compatibility in every release, NV Access decided that the best thing was limit compatibility breaks like this to once a year.

As for Golden Cursor (mentioned in another message): the closest equivalent is mouse Keys with mouse tracking from NVDA turned on. This works best if you've enabled beeps to indicate mouse position.

To answer Ella's question about Add-on Updater becoming part of NVDA Core: when I created this add-on three years ago, I intended that it will be part of NVDA Core eventually. Although it is too early to say, a variation is being planned by NV Access (more on that later).

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: Adding more add-ons to the core

 

Hi,

Windows 7 support depends not only on Microsoft stances and feedback from users, but also on what NvDA dependency developers say. As a Python-based program, Windows 7 support depends on how long Python will support it, and the last version to support Windows 7 properly is Python 3.8, which is supported in security only mode. So the chance of NVDA supporting Windows 7 until January 2023 (end of extended support for enterprises from Microsoft) is decreasing each day.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: Adding more add-ons to the core

 

Well I agree on that jean.

The interactive fiction one now works as well as a few others but if this is going to be each year well who knows.

As for win7 support, I don't know if we should keep it.

I mean I am a win7 user, but certainly after windows 10 reaches end of support we will probably have to abandon win7 support at some point.

So maybe we keep win7 support till the end of enterprize support whenever that is.



On 20/07/2021 2:33 am, Gene wrote:
A yearly disruption being what is expected, I submit that some systematic means be undertaken to determine what the most important and widely used add-ons are and that those functions be built into the core.  I’m not saying that the add-on can be directly added, but the functionality can. 
 
I don’t use many add-ons but I expect that there is swome very important functionality that relies on ad-ons.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 9:07 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Adding more add-ons to the core
 

Hi,

actually, backward compatibility breaks will be an annual thing, according to NV Access. The reason being to modernize NVDA, to keep up with technology and market conditions, and in case we move to newer Python and dependencies, to take advantage of features offered in newer releases.

For now modifying the manifest will suffice. But as I hinted in this thread, the next big thing for add-ons community is already in the works, and when that happens, add-on code itself must be modified. Specifically, a crucial part of many add-ons will receive a syntax update due to internal changes to how specific constants are represented, and as a result, the old way of doing things is going away next year. This change partly stems from a desire for NVDA to conform more closely with certain programming practices, namely using a more elegant way of displaying a collection of constants or flags called an enumeration (enum for short). Old NvDA releases could not take advantage of it as enumerations were not introduced until Python 3.4, so in a way, NVDA source code is still in the midst of a Python 3.7 transition ,although focused on modernizing things.

Making things a bit complicated is that Python developers decided that the programming language will receive annual updates. Ideally NVDA should be on Python 3.9 by now, but during the course of a brief experiment with Python 3.8 earlier this year, critical issues with speech synthesizer support (specifically, SAPI4 support) and Windows 7 and 8.x support were found that prevented us (NVDA contributors) from moving to newer Python releases (for now). At some point I expect NVDA to move onto newer Python releases to take advantage of speed and code improvements, which will once again break add-ons, and since it is very risky to break compatibility in every release, NV Access decided that the best thing was limit compatibility breaks like this to once a year.

As for Golden Cursor (mentioned in another message): the closest equivalent is mouse Keys with mouse tracking from NVDA turned on. This works best if you've enabled beeps to indicate mouse position.

To answer Ella's question about Add-on Updater becoming part of NVDA Core: when I created this add-on three years ago, I intended that it will be part of NVDA Core eventually. Although it is too early to say, a variation is being planned by NV Access (more on that later).

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: Adding more add-ons to the core

 

On Mon, Jul 19, 2021 at 11:21 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Even though we are volunteers, I still think it is important for developers to listen to what users are saying.
-
Being a volunteer in many places, including here as moderator, I take volunteer commitments more seriously than paid ones (and I take those quite seriously, indeed) because they are commitments I chose.  They were not foist upon me by any outside forces, but by choice.  There's an honor element to that.

And that is not to say it's in any way dishonorable to recuse oneself from any volunteer positions when one's life circumstances or desires change.  But there is a right way, with some attempt to find someone to fill your shoes and show them the ropes where that's needed, and a wrong way, packing up one's proverbial toys and going home, to do that.  A graceful exit is best practice in virtually all circumstances, even in those where the urge to burn those bridges then blow them up, too, is strong.  Bad behavior tends to come back to bite you in the posterior.

And if you're developing software where the intended (not accidental, but intended) target demographic extends beyond yourself, it behooves you to listen to their feedback.  If you've developed something for yourself, and it serves your needs, but you pass it around for others to use that's an entirely different circumstance.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Yep.  Discipline.  Accountability.  Joy.  Fun.  Responsibility.

That's what life is about.  And in that order.

        ~ Liza Minnelli

 


Re: Problem with having Admin Rights under UAC when using NVDA Remote

Jelal Bairamoglou
 

I have checked this for both computers and does not work.
They all worked all the problem occurred after the remote upgrade.

On 19/7/2021 6:43 π.μ., George McCoy wrote:
I read, in the first iteration documentation that UaC works if both computers have NVDA set to speak at the logon screen. I have several clients whose systems are set up that way and I have no issues with UAC.


George






Re: Adding more add-ons to the core

 

Hi,

Hypothetically, it is possible - all that's needed is checking for and editing add-on manifests. However, I think it is far better to let add-on authors themselves show willingness to listen to users and do the work. Even though we are volunteers, I still think it is important for developers to listen to what users are saying.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: Winamp add on?

Gene
 

Is there a new version of the add-on?  There was no such command many months ago, but I haven’t checked since then,  I suggest looking at the information about commands.  Perhaps things have changed.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 9:48 AM
Subject: [nvda] Winamp add on?
 
I've just noticed that for some reason, the play, pause and stop keys
aren't saying anything.  They were working for several days after
installing nvda 21.1, but yesterday they suddenly stopped speaking. Did
I hit some hidden key that turned them off?  Most of the other functions
like volume setting and elapsed and remaining time are speaking correctly.


Roger







Winamp add on?

Roger Stewart
 

I've just noticed that for some reason, the play, pause and stop keys aren't saying anything.  They were working for several days after installing nvda 21.1, but yesterday they suddenly stopped speaking. Did I hit some hidden key that turned them off?  Most of the other functions like volume setting and elapsed and remaining time are speaking correctly.


Roger


Re: Adding more add-ons to the core

 
Edited

On Mon, Jul 19, 2021 at 10:33 AM, Gene wrote:
A yearly disruption being what is expected, I submit that some systematic means be undertaken to determine what the most important and widely used add-ons are and that those functions be built into the core.
-
Not that I don't get what you're saying, and why, but in the final analysis it really doesn't matter where the functionality lies if there is a commitment to ongoing maintenance from its source.

It's become clear that, as far as add-ons go, creating one, even a great one, and then walking away without any transition plan means it's not going to last.  But, based upon some whisperings I've heard, the updates to how add-ons themselves are handled overall may ease this issue to a great extent.  I would simply hope that anyone who decides to leave their role as developer/maintainer of a given add on would do the responsible thing and seek out "the next generation maintainer" as part of their exit strategy.  But even if they don't, I suspect that the ability of someone else to pick up an abandoned add-on will be far less complicated than it has been in the past.

I suspect that things will be much as they are, with certain add-on functionality being integrated into the core over time, and what gets integrated will be carefully curated by the folks at NVAccess, just as has always been the case.  They're in the best position to know what can be integrated and when, and how.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Yep.  Discipline.  Accountability.  Joy.  Fun.  Responsibility.

That's what life is about.  And in that order.

        ~ Liza Minnelli

 


Re: Adding more add-ons to the core

David Griffith
 

Dear Joseph

 

Thanks for confirming the likely future issues and also for the incredible work you and others have delivered for us.

Again I don’t know if this is technically possible but would it not be a good idea to provide a  User option  of running an add- on update  routine  to update version numbers in manifest.ini   when we are likely to encounter the annual mass breakage of add-ons as you have described?

I think the logical code would be just find and replace, find version number and replace subsequent text?

I think I understand that amending the manifest in this  way would not be a cure all  for all add-ons and add-ons may well incorrectly report compatibility because of problems elsewhere in code requirements.

However with sufficient warnings for users taking this option it could at least rescue important functionality  for add-ons for a few more years.

I think we need to balance cutting edge with functionality.

Many of us are using older products with important access implications.  For example, I am using the Sapi 4 Eloquence provided by Kurzweil and I would hate to lose it as I consider it far better for my hearing than the purchased versions I also have. Mp3directCut is also long in the tooth but I know of no other free accessible alternative.

I know I can make time warps of portable versions but some security in an uncertain world of updates would reassure a lot of us I think.

David Griffith

 

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: 19 July 2021 15:07
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Adding more add-ons to the core

 

Hi,

actually, backward compatibility breaks will be an annual thing, according to NV Access. The reason being to modernize NVDA, to keep up with technology and market conditions, and in case we move to newer Python and dependencies, to take advantage of features offered in newer releases.

For now modifying the manifest will suffice. But as I hinted in this thread, the next big thing for add-ons community is already in the works, and when that happens, add-on code itself must be modified. Specifically, a crucial part of many add-ons will receive a syntax update due to internal changes to how specific constants are represented, and as a result, the old way of doing things is going away next year. This change partly stems from a desire for NVDA to conform more closely with certain programming practices, namely using a more elegant way of displaying a collection of constants or flags called an enumeration (enum for short). Old NvDA releases could not take advantage of it as enumerations were not introduced until Python 3.4, so in a way, NVDA source code is still in the midst of a Python 3.7 transition ,although focused on modernizing things.

Making things a bit complicated is that Python developers decided that the programming language will receive annual updates. Ideally NVDA should be on Python 3.9 by now, but during the course of a brief experiment with Python 3.8 earlier this year, critical issues with speech synthesizer support (specifically, SAPI4 support) and Windows 7 and 8.x support were found that prevented us (NVDA contributors) from moving to newer Python releases (for now). At some point I expect NVDA to move onto newer Python releases to take advantage of speed and code improvements, which will once again break add-ons, and since it is very risky to break compatibility in every release, NV Access decided that the best thing was limit compatibility breaks like this to once a year.

As for Golden Cursor (mentioned in another message): the closest equivalent is mouse Keys with mouse tracking from NVDA turned on. This works best if you've enabled beeps to indicate mouse position.

To answer Ella's question about Add-on Updater becoming part of NVDA Core: when I created this add-on three years ago, I intended that it will be part of NVDA Core eventually. Although it is too early to say, a variation is being planned by NV Access (more on that later).

Cheers,

Joseph

 


Re: Adding more add-ons to the core

Gene
 

A yearly disruption being what is expected, I submit that some systematic means be undertaken to determine what the most important and widely used add-ons are and that those functions be built into the core.  I’m not saying that the add-on can be directly added, but the functionality can. 
 
I don’t use many add-ons but I expect that there is swome very important functionality that relies on ad-ons.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 9:07 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Adding more add-ons to the core
 

Hi,

actually, backward compatibility breaks will be an annual thing, according to NV Access. The reason being to modernize NVDA, to keep up with technology and market conditions, and in case we move to newer Python and dependencies, to take advantage of features offered in newer releases.

For now modifying the manifest will suffice. But as I hinted in this thread, the next big thing for add-ons community is already in the works, and when that happens, add-on code itself must be modified. Specifically, a crucial part of many add-ons will receive a syntax update due to internal changes to how specific constants are represented, and as a result, the old way of doing things is going away next year. This change partly stems from a desire for NVDA to conform more closely with certain programming practices, namely using a more elegant way of displaying a collection of constants or flags called an enumeration (enum for short). Old NvDA releases could not take advantage of it as enumerations were not introduced until Python 3.4, so in a way, NVDA source code is still in the midst of a Python 3.7 transition ,although focused on modernizing things.

Making things a bit complicated is that Python developers decided that the programming language will receive annual updates. Ideally NVDA should be on Python 3.9 by now, but during the course of a brief experiment with Python 3.8 earlier this year, critical issues with speech synthesizer support (specifically, SAPI4 support) and Windows 7 and 8.x support were found that prevented us (NVDA contributors) from moving to newer Python releases (for now). At some point I expect NVDA to move onto newer Python releases to take advantage of speed and code improvements, which will once again break add-ons, and since it is very risky to break compatibility in every release, NV Access decided that the best thing was limit compatibility breaks like this to once a year.

As for Golden Cursor (mentioned in another message): the closest equivalent is mouse Keys with mouse tracking from NVDA turned on. This works best if you've enabled beeps to indicate mouse position.

To answer Ella's question about Add-on Updater becoming part of NVDA Core: when I created this add-on three years ago, I intended that it will be part of NVDA Core eventually. Although it is too early to say, a variation is being planned by NV Access (more on that later).

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: Adding more add-ons to the core

 

On Mon, Jul 19, 2021 at 10:07 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
actually, backward compatibility breaks will be an annual thing, according to NV Access. The reason being to modernize NVDA, to keep up with technology and market conditions, and in case we move to newer Python and dependencies, to take advantage of features offered in newer releases.
-
I'm quoting this to support my own earlier statements about code shelf-life in general, as it's always been there, it just used to be longer (for a great many things).

One thing I notice over time is how many people make statements that indicate that backward compatibility should be of the utmost importance, whether they say that directly or not.  The reality is that trying to maintain anything even approaching perpetual backward compatibility is a sure way to the trash bin of history for any product, including NVDA.

The time is coming, and it's coming sooner than I think many believe, when backward compatibility with Windows 7 is going to have to break.  And there should be no problem with that, as Windows 7 will have been out of support for at least a couple of years by then.  But there are a number of users who still insist on sticking with Windows 7, and I'm telling them, now, that this is not a viable choice over the long term, and a very bad choice in the present.  If you are a Windows user, and intend to remain a Windows user, you must stick with the version(s) that Microsoft is supporting at any given point in time.  Right now that's Windows 8.1 and Windows 10, and will soon enough include Windows 11.  And the no-cost upgrade path from Windows 7 to Windows 10 still exists and works.  The need to keep up with the current operating system version for any OS ecosystem is vital; it's not just a Windows thing.  Those on Windows 7 need to transition, whether they'd prefer to or not.  Your preference, and mine, too, are irrelevant.

I am well aware of the financial constraints that face many users, and sympathize with them, but that's not going to change the big picture in any way.  In the computing world you have no choice but to keep up with "what works now, and will continue working," or fading away.  That's true of both end users and software producers as well.  Most of us would not buy, say, a car that was produced today that used what was state of the art technology for 1967.  Think in the same terms as far as computing goes, and shorten up the time frame into no more than a decade, at most.

If you are going to be in the world of computing, whether strictly as an end user or in any other capacity, you must accept that the pace of change is rapid, and the need to keep up with changes is not optional.  NVAccess is doing what it needs to do to remain viable in the marketplace.  If it does not, it will cease to exist.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Yep.  Discipline.  Accountability.  Joy.  Fun.  Responsibility.

That's what life is about.  And in that order.

        ~ Liza Minnelli

 


Re: Adding more add-ons to the core

Roger Stewart
 

I'll add Golden Cursor should also be added to the core as this is a function that most everyone can use to help get mouse control.
Roger

On 7/18/2021 11:05 PM, Jujube wrote:
I 100% agree with this proposal. I think adding some addons to the
core will make them more within reach, and we can of course keep
making new ones. Addons are a good way to add app specific
functionality, add extra features not crucial for absolutely everyone,
and test drive features and if they are used widely enough adding them
into the core shouldn't cause too many problems. For example, and this
is just my opinion, Addon updater deserves to be in the core since its
the backbone of keeping all other addons up to date, and some of the
Clipboard addons could be nice in core.

On 7/18/21, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:
Off and on it is stated that an add-on will be added to the core. I don’t
recall this being discussed before, but since this is the second time in
perhaps two years or less that a lot or most add-ons have been made
incompatible, it raises the question if more should be added.

How often is this likely to happen and at what point are add-ons going to be
more likely to be lost through attrition if developers don’t want to keep
updating them? Perhaps more serious attention should be given to adding
more of them to the core.

I know the argument about keeping NVDA small but add-ons don’t take much
room and adding many of them to the core wouldn’t make the program bigger to
any extent that matters.

Gene







.


Re: Adding more add-ons to the core

 

Hi,

actually, backward compatibility breaks will be an annual thing, according to NV Access. The reason being to modernize NVDA, to keep up with technology and market conditions, and in case we move to newer Python and dependencies, to take advantage of features offered in newer releases.

For now modifying the manifest will suffice. But as I hinted in this thread, the next big thing for add-ons community is already in the works, and when that happens, add-on code itself must be modified. Specifically, a crucial part of many add-ons will receive a syntax update due to internal changes to how specific constants are represented, and as a result, the old way of doing things is going away next year. This change partly stems from a desire for NVDA to conform more closely with certain programming practices, namely using a more elegant way of displaying a collection of constants or flags called an enumeration (enum for short). Old NvDA releases could not take advantage of it as enumerations were not introduced until Python 3.4, so in a way, NVDA source code is still in the midst of a Python 3.7 transition ,although focused on modernizing things.

Making things a bit complicated is that Python developers decided that the programming language will receive annual updates. Ideally NVDA should be on Python 3.9 by now, but during the course of a brief experiment with Python 3.8 earlier this year, critical issues with speech synthesizer support (specifically, SAPI4 support) and Windows 7 and 8.x support were found that prevented us (NVDA contributors) from moving to newer Python releases (for now). At some point I expect NVDA to move onto newer Python releases to take advantage of speed and code improvements, which will once again break add-ons, and since it is very risky to break compatibility in every release, NV Access decided that the best thing was limit compatibility breaks like this to once a year.

As for Golden Cursor (mentioned in another message): the closest equivalent is mouse Keys with mouse tracking from NVDA turned on. This works best if you've enabled beeps to indicate mouse position.

To answer Ella's question about Add-on Updater becoming part of NVDA Core: when I created this add-on three years ago, I intended that it will be part of NVDA Core eventually. Although it is too early to say, a variation is being planned by NV Access (more on that later).

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: Adding more add-ons to the core

 

I will offer some observations as an end-user and as a former programmer (though not in Python nor for NVDA):

1.  We have seen a fairly constant integration of some add-on functions into the NVDA Core code over time.  Joseph has mentioned some of those and, I believe, that Add-On Updater, mentioned by Jujube, is already in the pipeline for integration into the NVDA core.  I'm sure Joseph can confirm/refute.

2. Even if the fix, now, happens to be just tweaking a manifest file (and I'm sure that's going to be true for a number of add-ons) those add-ons need to have maintainers, and human ones, because this will not always be the case.

3. The nature of the changes that have triggered the last two backward compatibility breaking NVDA releases do not strike me as being routine, and history pretty much bears that out.  That being said, we're moving more and more into the age of "[insert thing here] as a service," which means a development cycle that's substantially different than what had been the case for decades.  But that does not necessarily mean that underlying coding foundations will changed, and that's what happened in the backward compatibility breaking releases.

Even if a given add-on is a home-grown one, I think (and I hope) that there is going to be a requirement that these be released as open-source and with licensing such that if one were to become abandonware for any reason (and death of the developer is sometimes one of those) that there will be zero issue with someone, anyone, who's qualified and interested to pick up the torch and continue on.  But even if this is true I do expect that certain add-ons will pass out of existence on rare occasion.  Software, all software, has a finite shelf life "as issued" and much like a house needs to have constant, ongoing maintenance in order to keep from slowly falling apart.

Nothing is so constant as change, and nowhere is change so constant and rapid as in the world of computing and electronics.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Yep.  Discipline.  Accountability.  Joy.  Fun.  Responsibility.

That's what life is about.  And in that order.

        ~ Liza Minnelli

 

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