Date   

Re: how to switch speech language

Sauro Cesaretti
 

Hello everyone,
Very helpful, thanks for all the suggestions.
Best regards,Sauro


2021-08-05 9:02 GMT+02:00, Ali Colak <alish54@gmail.com>:

If you commonly switch between two languages and want to this on the
fly instead of going through the voices dialogue, then Fawaz Abdul
rahman's suggestion is the best option.
1: press nvda+control+p to go to the configurations profiles menu.
2: Tab until you get the new button.
3: Name it whatever you wish, ideally a discriptive name.
4: Press tab to check the manual activation radio button.
5: Press OK.
6: Close the menue.
7: Switch to whatever language you want in the profile through
control+nvda+v, then save that configuration with control+nvda+c.
8: Go the nvda preferences menu, then input gestures.
9: Down arrow until you see Configuration profiles and right arrow to
expand.
10: Down arrow until you hear the name of the profile you created,
than tab until you hear add and press enter or the space bar.
11: Press the key combination you want to associate with that profile,
ideal a combination that isn't already associated with something.
12: A context menue will appear asking you which keyboard leyout you
want the combination associated with, select whichever you wish, --I
advise all keyboard layouts-- then press enter.
13: tab until you hear OK and press enter.
14: Press the key combination to activate and deactivate the profile,
which will switch you the language you associated with the account and
back.

On 8/4/21, Jujube <ellaxyu@gmail.com> wrote:
I believe the command to access the voice dialog is control nvda V.
Press control nvda g to change interface language.

On 8/4/21, Sauro Cesaretti <saurocesaretti1983@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello everyone,
I'm Sauro Cesaretti from italy.
I'd like to kindly ask if there is a shortcut to switch quickly the
language speech.
In particular, I need to switch form Italin to english voice with
windows core voices, is it possible to do it with a shortcut?
Thanks in advance
Best regards,Sauro Cesaretti














Re: Vocalizer Compact Voices for NVDA

Daniel McGee
 

So there isn't a trial before purchase?

On 5 Aug 2021, at 20:49, Rui Fontes <rui.fontes@tiflotecnia.com> wrote:

The synth is not loaded without a valid license.


Rui Fontes

Tiflotecnia, Lda.



Às 18:47 de 05/08/2021, Daniel McGee escreveu:
Hello Rui


So I have downloaded the Tiflotecnia, addons for NVDA 2021.1


However, when I bring up the select synthesizer dialog box, I don't see the Tiflotecnia, version of the voices.


Here are the addon versions I have installed below.


Vocalizer Expressive 1.1 Driver bl...
3.1.6
Tiflotecnia, LDA.


Nuance Vocalizer Expressive - english Compact Voices (Australia, British, Irish, Scotish, South African and United States. Version: 1.1.1


Hope this is of some help.


Daniel


On 04/08/2021 11:11, Rui Fontes wrote:

Vocalizer for NVDA from Tiflotecnia allows the use of compact voices...


Rui Fontes

Tiflotecnia, Lda.


Às 18:10 de 04/08/2021, Daniel McGee escreveu:
Hello everyone


Are there any versions of the vocalizer voices that support, the compact variant which can be used with NVDA?


Using latest versions of NVDA and Windows 10.


Thank you


Daniel














Re: NVDA audio routing

JinYoun
 

Wow, thank you all for the simple tip! Much appreciate it.

On 8/5/21, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@gmail.com> wrote:
This was actually just discussed. Nvda control s, tab, choose device,
enter.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of JinYoun
Sent: Thursday, August 5, 2021 12:30 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA audio routing



Hello, I was just curious, is there a way to route NVDA sound to headset and
have all other sound play through the default speaker for the pc?
Thank you









Re: speech rate changes to defaults

George Kerscher
 

Hello,

 

Two items as follow up:

The NVDA+CTRL+R worked most of the time. Only occasionally I had to made a change.

I did run SFC and it showed no errors. I switched to Eloquence, and have not had the problem again. I think the old Eloquence, which did not work with 2021 and was disabled was somehow causing the problem.

 

So, life is good.

 

Best

George

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 4:43 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] speech rate changes to defaults

 

Do I  understand that you are using a profile for Outlook and the standard settings for most else?  I don’t know what is causing the problem or if that has anything to do with anything.

 

This may or may not work, but you may be able to deal with the problem so quickly that solving it no longer  matters.  The next time this happens, issue the apply configuration command, NVDA key control r.  the setting may not be lost at all.  For some reason, NVDA may not be using it and applying the saved configuration may cause it to do so again.  Since this is just one command, if it works getting the setting to work again will be so fast and convenient that you may not ;particularly care about solving the problem.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 5:36 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] speech rate changes to defaults

 

Hello again,

 

Today, the rate changed to the default setting. I am running Windows 10 2021H1.

I was in Outlook and was switching between an open message and the inbox. Both the Outlook profile and the normal general configuration was impacted. I could save the profile immediately after it changed.

 

I also was in outlook with an open message and was running on battery. I left the computer, and it went to sleep.  When I woke it up, the rate changed. Here too the Outlook configuration and the default reverted to the slow speech rate.

 

I am getting pretty fast correcting this behavior, so it is not a horrible inconvenience, but it would be good to figure out what is going on.

 

Best

George

 

 

Best

George

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2021 1:49 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] speech rate changes to defaults

 

On Sun, Jul 18, 2021 at 03:39 PM, George Kerscher wrote:

I will report back here if the issue reappears. It has gone away for now, i.e. I can no longer force the behavior.

-
First, thank you for such a fine report on your findings, how to force the issue you had, and how you've resolved it.

Please report back even if the issue does not reappear for a period of time where you're reasonably confident that "the fix has taken."  That's valuable information to have, too.  Also, if it should recur at some unspecified point in time in the future, please report that, too, as these things can often have multiple contributing factors.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.

     ~ Mark Twain

 


Re: NVDA audio routing

Sarah k Alawami
 

This was actually just discussed. Nvda control s, tab, choose device, enter.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of JinYoun
Sent: Thursday, August 5, 2021 12:30 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA audio routing

 

Hello, I was just curious, is there a way to route NVDA sound to headset and have all other sound play through the default speaker for the pc?
Thank you 


Re: NVDA audio routing

Jujube
 

Yes there is. Press nvda control s to open synthesizer dialog and
press tab twice to get to the sound device box, choose your option and
press enter. Alternatively you can also configure in windows sound
mixer (type sound mixer into windows search).

On 8/5/21, JinYoun <healthytaeshim@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello, I was just curious, is there a way to route NVDA sound to headset and
have all other sound play through the default speaker for the pc?
Thank you






Re: NVDA audio routing

Rui Fontes
 

Hello!


Press NVDA+Control+S;

Tab once and select the sound card you want...


Rui Fontes


Às 20:30 de 05/08/2021, JinYoun escreveu:

Hello, I was just curious, is there a way to route NVDA sound to headset and have all other sound play through the default speaker for the pc?
Thank you 


Re: Vocalizer Compact Voices for NVDA

Rui Fontes
 

The synth is not loaded without a valid license.


Rui Fontes

Tiflotecnia, Lda.



Às 18:47 de 05/08/2021, Daniel McGee escreveu:

Hello Rui


So I have downloaded the Tiflotecnia, addons for NVDA 2021.1


However, when I bring up the select synthesizer dialog box, I don't see the Tiflotecnia, version of the voices.


Here are the addon versions I have installed below.


Vocalizer Expressive 1.1 Driver bl...
3.1.6
Tiflotecnia, LDA.


Nuance Vocalizer Expressive - english Compact Voices (Australia, British, Irish, Scotish, South African and United States. Version: 1.1.1


Hope this is of some help.


Daniel


  On 04/08/2021 11:11, Rui Fontes wrote:

Vocalizer for NVDA from Tiflotecnia allows the use of compact voices...


Rui Fontes

Tiflotecnia, Lda.


Às 18:10 de 04/08/2021, Daniel McGee escreveu:
Hello everyone


Are there any versions of the vocalizer voices that support, the compact variant which can be used with NVDA?


Using latest versions of NVDA and Windows 10.


Thank you


Daniel











NVDA audio routing

JinYoun
 

Hello, I was just curious, is there a way to route NVDA sound to headset and have all other sound play through the default speaker for the pc?
Thank you 


Welcome to the NVDA Community Add-ons website - Search With #nvdaaddonsfeed

nvda@nvda.groups.io Integration <nvda@...>
 

Search With

  • Author: Ibrahim Hamadeh
  • Download Stable Version
  • NVDA compatibility: 2019.3 and beyond

This addon helps you to search text, via various search engines. Let no text selected, and press the gesture of the addon, a dialog will be displayed, with an edit box to enter a search query, to search with Google press enter, or tab to search with other engins.

And if you want to search for selected text, select some text and press once, a menu will be displayed with various search engines to choose. and you can if you like, press the gesture twice to search selected text with Google directly.

The Default gesture for the addon is: NVDA+ Windows+ S. If the keystroke do not work for you, or conflict with other keystroke, you can as always add a gesture or change the existent one going to : NVDA menu>preferences>inputGestures>Search With category.

Usage

  • If you want to enter a search query, just press the addon gesture

a dialog will be displayed, with an edit field to enter the search term.

  • Want to search with Google? just press enter
  • Otherwise tab to Other Engines button, and give it a space, a popup menu will show up, with various search engines to choose.

Yahoo, Bing, DuckDuckGo, and Youtube.

This is the default menu, and you may modify it from addon's setting panel.

  • Another way to use the addon, is by selecting some text.

And on Pressing the addon's gesture, or any other you have assigned to it, a virtual menu will be displayed with various search engines, either the default menu, or any other you have tailed to your needs.

Choose one and press enter, the default browser will open displaying search results. or, if you want to search with Google directly, press the gesture twice, and you are done.

  • Want to modify Search with menu?

Yes you can do that from the setting panel, and adjust the menu to fit to your mood and needs.

You can from there, add to Search with menu, other available search engines.

And you can if you like, remove an item from it, move item up, move item down, or return and set menu to default state.

  • If you want these modifications to be permanent, you have to save configuration after wards.
  • Want to search Google using other language options?

Then, go to Search With category in setting panels, from the cumbo box there, you can choose search Google either:

1.  Using browser settings and language.
2.  Using NVDA language.
3.  Using windows language.
  • Lastly, if you want to have last spoken text as default query in Search with dialog, you have the ability to do that, through Use last spoken as default query check box in setting panel.

And that's it, hope to search for good and find it, happy searching!

Changes for 1.2

  • Add more sites that could be added to menu, such as Stackoverflow, Stackexchange, GoogleBooks and others.
  • Add the options to use last spoken text as default query, in search with dialog.

Changes for 0.4

  • Add a dialog if no text selected, to enter a search query.
  • Make possible to modify Search with menu from setting panel, to fit to user needs.

Changes for 0.3

  • Add setting panel, giving more language options in Google search.

Changes for 0.1

  • Initial version


Re: QT Applications are not accessible until I restart NVDA

Lukasz Golonka
 

On Thu, 5 Aug 2021 22:41:11 +0530
"Ravi Pinapaka" <psvkravi@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

Applications that are built using the QT GUI framework are not accessible
until I restart NVDA.
Cannot reproduce here. Apps I've tried are VirtualBox, MikTeX console
and XAMPP. With what software are you experiencing this exactly?

--
Regards
Lukasz


Re: Vocalizer Compact Voices for NVDA

Daniel McGee
 

Hello Rui


So I have downloaded the Tiflotecnia, addons for NVDA 2021.1


However, when I bring up the select synthesizer dialog box, I don't see the Tiflotecnia, version of the voices.


Here are the addon versions I have installed below.


Vocalizer Expressive 1.1 Driver bl...
3.1.6
Tiflotecnia, LDA.


Nuance Vocalizer Expressive - english Compact Voices (Australia, British, Irish, Scotish, South African and United States. Version: 1.1.1


Hope this is of some help.


Daniel

On 04/08/2021 11:11, Rui Fontes wrote:

Vocalizer for NVDA from Tiflotecnia allows the use of compact voices...


Rui Fontes

Tiflotecnia, Lda.


Às 18:10 de 04/08/2021, Daniel McGee escreveu:
Hello everyone


Are there any versions of the vocalizer voices that support, the compact variant which can be used with NVDA?


Using latest versions of NVDA and Windows 10.


Thank you


Daniel








QT Applications are not accessible until I restart NVDA

Ravi Pinapaka
 

Hi,

Applications that are built using the QT GUI framework are not accessible until I restart NVDA.

Here's what's happening step-by-step:
1. I opened a QT application. Application is not accessible.
2. I restart NVDA. Application is now accessible.
3. I closed and reopened the application. Not accessible again until I restart NVDA again.

I've checked with multiple QT applications and all of them have this issue. There's nothing in the log either after "NVDA Initialized". Pretty sure it's an NVDA issue as it's working after restarting NVDA and Jaws is working without any issues at all.

Does anyone know what's causing this and how to fix it?

Thanks,
Ravi


Re: Issue With Thunderbird And Account Settings In A Recent Update

Gene
 

The solution you found and that I discussed works in various browsers as well.  It may work in other programs but browsers and Thunderbird are where I have found this to be necessary to see the full interface.  And it may be necessary to work with history as well. 
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2021 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Issue With Thunderbird And Account Settings In A Recent Update
 
I suspect the problem is that you are in browse mode or that the virtual pc cursor is active, depending on your screen-reader.  When I am in an interface like this where I can’t vfind what I should find, I check to see if I can turn off browse mode in NVDA or the virtual pc cursor in JAWS. 
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2021 9:40 AM
Subject: [nvda] Issue With Thunderbird And Account Settings In A Recent Update
 
Hi Group,

In an attempt to help a person on another list, I wanted to see what
port configuration was used by Gmail, I think it is 467 and 995, but I
wanted to be sure. In any case,  when I go to tools/account settings,
something has changed with a recent version of Thunderbird. There used
to be an accessible tree view for each account you had set up which you
could access by using the up/down arrow keys and the tab and shift + tab
keystrokes. Now when I access the account settings, all  that is visible
is one element of a tree view that does not read a name and then an HTML
type interface that is largely unusable.

Has anyone else tried to manually edit their account settings recently
and have you experienced this issue? If so, is there a solution?  Thanks
for any help.

--
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grevous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!






Re: Issue With Thunderbird And Account Settings In A Recent Update

Gene
 

I suspect the problem is that you are in browse mode or that the virtual pc cursor is active, depending on your screen-reader.  When I am in an interface like this where I can’t vfind what I should find, I check to see if I can turn off browse mode in NVDA or the virtual pc cursor in JAWS. 
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2021 9:40 AM
Subject: [nvda] Issue With Thunderbird And Account Settings In A Recent Update
 
Hi Group,

In an attempt to help a person on another list, I wanted to see what
port configuration was used by Gmail, I think it is 467 and 995, but I
wanted to be sure. In any case,  when I go to tools/account settings,
something has changed with a recent version of Thunderbird. There used
to be an accessible tree view for each account you had set up which you
could access by using the up/down arrow keys and the tab and shift + tab
keystrokes. Now when I access the account settings, all  that is visible
is one element of a tree view that does not read a name and then an HTML
type interface that is largely unusable.

Has anyone else tried to manually edit their account settings recently
and have you experienced this issue? If so, is there a solution?  Thanks
for any help.

--
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grevous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!






Re: Issue With Thunderbird And Account Settings In A Recent Update

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Group,

Well its almost American Football time so as they say in the NFL 'upon further review,' in an attempt to see what was going on in my account settings in Thunderbird, I switched from browse mode to edit mode with insert + space bar. I then used the tab and what do you know, with one back tab, I landed on a fully accessible tree view which I could then navigate with up/down arrow keys and access the various items with tab and shift tab.  This is new behavior, but you get the proper results once you realize what you have to do.

BTW, the proper ports for GMail are 465 for SMTP and 995 for pop/imap.

On 8/5/2021 10:40 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Group,

In an attempt to help a person on another list, I wanted to see what port configuration was used by Gmail, I think it is 467 and 995, but I wanted to be sure. In any case,  when I go to tools/account settings, something has changed with a recent version of Thunderbird. There used to be an accessible tree view for each account you had set up which you could access by using the up/down arrow keys and the tab and shift + tab keystrokes. Now when I access the account settings, all  that is visible is one element of a tree view that does not read a name and then an HTML type interface that is largely unusable.

Has anyone else tried to manually edit their account settings recently and have you experienced this issue? If so, is there a solution?  Thanks for any help.
--
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grevous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!


Issue With Thunderbird And Account Settings In A Recent Update

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Group,

In an attempt to help a person on another list, I wanted to see what port configuration was used by Gmail, I think it is 467 and 995, but I wanted to be sure. In any case,  when I go to tools/account settings, something has changed with a recent version of Thunderbird. There used to be an accessible tree view for each account you had set up which you could access by using the up/down arrow keys and the tab and shift + tab keystrokes. Now when I access the account settings, all  that is visible is one element of a tree view that does not read a name and then an HTML type interface that is largely unusable.

Has anyone else tried to manually edit their account settings recently and have you experienced this issue? If so, is there a solution?  Thanks for any help.

--
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grevous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!


Welcome to the NVDA Community Add-ons website - Say Product Name and Version #nvdaaddonsfeed

nvda@nvda.groups.io Integration <nvda@...>
 

Say Product Name and Version

This NVDA add-on add a shortcut to announce product name and version of the foreground application, or copy these informations to the clipboard.

  • Shortcut: NVDA+Shift+V
  • Press it twice to copy product name and version to the clipboard.

Changes for 2021.07

  • Add Croatian translation thanks to Tarik Hadžirović and Goran Parać
  • Update help message
  • Update documentation style for visualy impaired users
  • Move shortcut from Speech to tools cathegory

Changes for 2020.02

  • Python 3 compatibility
  • Use informations from NVDA itself instead of using an external module
  • Use script decorator for global plugin informations
  • Use last version of add-on template

Changes for 1.0.1

  • Fixed the message after copying informations to the clipboard which was not translatted.

Changes for 1.0

  • Initial Release


Re: how to switch speech language

Ali Colak
 

If you commonly switch between two languages and want to this on the
fly instead of going through the voices dialogue, then Fawaz Abdul
rahman's suggestion is the best option.
1: press nvda+control+p to go to the configurations profiles menu.
2: Tab until you get the new button.
3: Name it whatever you wish, ideally a discriptive name.
4: Press tab to check the manual activation radio button.
5: Press OK.
6: Close the menue.
7: Switch to whatever language you want in the profile through
control+nvda+v, then save that configuration with control+nvda+c.
8: Go the nvda preferences menu, then input gestures.
9: Down arrow until you see Configuration profiles and right arrow to expand.
10: Down arrow until you hear the name of the profile you created,
than tab until you hear add and press enter or the space bar.
11: Press the key combination you want to associate with that profile,
ideal a combination that isn't already associated with something.
12: A context menue will appear asking you which keyboard leyout you
want the combination associated with, select whichever you wish, --I
advise all keyboard layouts-- then press enter.
13: tab until you hear OK and press enter.
14: Press the key combination to activate and deactivate the profile,
which will switch you the language you associated with the account and
back.

On 8/4/21, Jujube <ellaxyu@gmail.com> wrote:
I believe the command to access the voice dialog is control nvda V.
Press control nvda g to change interface language.

On 8/4/21, Sauro Cesaretti <saurocesaretti1983@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello everyone,
I'm Sauro Cesaretti from italy.
I'd like to kindly ask if there is a shortcut to switch quickly the
language speech.
In particular, I need to switch form Italin to english voice with
windows core voices, is it possible to do it with a shortcut?
Thanks in advance
Best regards,Sauro Cesaretti










locked Re: Intel or AMD: does the processor make a difference to NVDA

Nimer Jaber
 

Right, and the question has now been answered, so topic is locked. Thanks everyone.


On Wed, Aug 4, 2021 at 10:31 PM Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:

Well having both both are fine.

Amd do get regular non whql drivers so you do get the latest so there is more chance for your version being compatible with the latest version of windows however at the same time you can bump into a version not compatible and causing issues but probably good if you are an insider maybe its certainly faster.

Not that intels are bad or anything.

After spectre amd seemed to be the more secure but at least right now its hard to get a nonbranded unlocked amd system and mostly its intel in local stores anyway.

On the other side, unless you use an old a class generation or gen1 ryzen microsoft is more leniant towards amd as an upgrade path.

My at least 4 or now 5 year old amd 2nd ryzen will make the upgrade path while all intel units below 8th gen will not so an amd system does have the advantage.

Also while intel has tpm amd at least mine has in conjunction to tpm their own security module called sp10 and also has an actual processer devoted to security so there's that.




On 5/08/2021 2:51 pm, Gene wrote:
I just checked.  this is about an eleven year old Windows 7 laptop in what was then a moderate price range, about $500.  The processor is a 2.51GHZ unit.  The minimum requirement for JAWS is a 1.5GHZ processor.  . 
 
Gene
From: Gene
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2021 9:40 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Intel or AMD: does the processor make a difference to NVDA
 
I hope techs comment on this, agreeing or not.  Screen-readers aren’t resource hogs and they don’t require fast processors.  My understanding is that if a computer runs well in general, it will run well with a screen-reader.
 
However, the newer synthesizers that require more resources and aren’t as responsive as the older ones may require discussion.  My impression is that people generally use the newer less responsive synthesizers for listening to documents and they use older responsive synthesizers such as Eloquence for work.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Arlene
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2021 9:25 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Intel or AMD: does the processor make a difference to NVDA
 

Hi, I am not sure if I’m a good help. I know with Jaws you need a faster processor I  could be lying. Not sure about NVDA. I know Jaws is a resource hog. I’m not sure anymore.  It depends on what you are going to do with your computer.  If you are going to do radio shows using a computer. Yu do need a fast processor.  If you are going to play games or record shows then you may need a faster computer. 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Pranav Lal
Sent: August 4, 2021 5:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Intel or AMD: does the processor make a difference to NVDA

 

Hi all,

 

I am planning to upgrade my desktop. Do CPU brands  make a difference to how

well a screen reader runs? Will NVDA work as well with an intel CPU as with

a AMD CPU?

 

I suspect it does not but prefer checking.

 

Pranav

 

 

 

 

 

 



--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
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