Date   

Why is SAPI5 louder in a portable copy of NVDA than an installed one?

John Isige
 

Hey all.


This isn't really an issue I guess, I'm just curious. SAPI5 voices, possibly others, are louder in some cases than others for me. I have NVDA set to be used at log on, and Microsoft David is louder when Windows first boots. It starts reading the login prompt, then NVDA runs, I mean the copy that starts after Windows is loaded. I hit escape a couple of times, and instead of using SAPI5 Eloquence, it goes back to the login prompt with MS David, which is softer than it was on initial boot.


Similarly, just now I updated to 2021.2, and when it booted that copy, SAPI5 Eloquence was louder than it was before it started, and after it installed and ran the new installed copy. I also noticed that a portable copy I made a while back for some reason was louder too. I don't have anything obvious like audio ducking enabled, it happens with or without addons loaded, my volume is set to 100% in NVDA in all cases. I shouldn't be that it's switching sound interfaces, because all of this speech is coming out of my laptop's headphone jack. Like I said, it's not a real issue, as such, I mean NVDA works just fine, it's just not as loud as it could be I guess, and in fact, if it was louder like it is in those cases, I'd probably turn the volume down from 100%. It's just kind of odd that's all, and I'm just curious about what could be going on.


Clock add-on 21.09 and other add-on updates #addonrelease

 

Hello everyone,

Another good news on top of release of NVDA 2021.2: more add-ons have become compatible with NVDA 2021.1 or later. Among these are MP3 Direct Cut, Say current keyboard language, Day of the week and a few others. If y9ou happen to be using Add-on Updater, you can now install updates to these add-ons.

 

Speaking of add-on updates, Clock version 21.09 was just released. This is a significant update in that it modernizes add-on internals. More importantly, starting from this release, NVDA 2019.3 or later is required. This is just the beginning – I’m working on a more significant release that will not only change the internals a bit, but will also introduce big changes to Clock settings interface, quiet hours definition and others; this big release is scheduled for sometime later this year (likely November), and you can subscribe to dev channel to receive development builds for the next release.

 

One more thing: I’m finalizing the October 2021 releases of most of my add-ons. Due to internal changes, most of my add-ons will now require NVDA 2021.2 or later, especially if you are planning to use Windows 11 with NVDA.

Enjoy the new add-on updates.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: NVDA 2021.2 is now available

David Goldfield
 

I would like to congratulate NV Access for releasing this update after only one beta and one RC build. Of course, more betas and more release candidates are absolutely fine and having them only means that more bugs were addressed prior to the official public release. Still, the fact that we only needed one of each is a testimony to the product’s overall stability and for its robust code. The good folks at NV Access deserve a celebration and I commend them for their great work and service to the community.

 

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

JAWS Certified, 2019

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

 

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2021 10:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA 2021.2 is now available

 

Hi everyone,

 

NV Access is pleased to announce that NVDA 2021.2 is now available for download. Featuring preliminary Windows 11 support, Updates to the COM Registration fixing tool eSpeak-NG, LibLouis, Braille & more! We encourage all users to upgrade to this version.

 

 

Kind regards

 

Quentin.

 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 


News – NV Access - NVDA 2021.2 Released #nvaccessnewsfeed

nvda@nvda.groups.io Integration <nvda@...>
 

NVDA 2021.2 Released

By Sean Budd

NV Access is pleased to announce that version 2021.2 of NVDA, the free screen reader for Microsoft Windows, is now available for download. We encourage all users to upgrade to this version.

Highlights

NVDA 2021.2 introduces preliminary Windows 11 support. While Windows 11 is yet to be released, this release has been tested on preview versions of Windows 11. This includes an important fix for Screen Curtain (see important note).

The COM Registration Fixing Tool can now resolve more problems when running NVDA. There are updates to the synthesizer eSpeak and braille translator LibLouis. There are also various bug fixes and improvements, notably for braille support and Windows terminals, calculator, emoji panel and clipboard history.

Important Note:

Due to a change in the Windows Magnification API, Screen Curtain had to be updated to support the newest versions of Windows. Use NVDA 2021.2 to activate Screen Curtain with Windows 10 21H2 (10.0.19044) or later. This includes Windows 10 Insiders and Windows 11. For security purposes, when using a new version of Windows, get visual confirmation that the Screen Curtain makes the screen entirely black.

Please note, after updating any software, it is a good idea to restart the computer. Restart by going to the Shutdown dialog, selecting “restart” and pressing ENTER. Updating software can change files which are in use. This can lead to instability and strange behaviour which is resolved by rebooting. This is the first thing to try if you do notice anything odd after updating.

Links

While downloading NVDA, please consider becoming a monthly donor. Contributions like yours help NV Access continue our important work.

We also have a range of training material in the NV Access Shop to help you increase your skills with NVDA. Start with the popular Basic Training for NVDA in electronic text, audio and braille. Save with the NVDA Productivity Bundle. This includes Basic Training, all our Microsoft Office training, and telephone support.


NVDA 2021.2 is now available

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi everyone,

NV Access is pleased to announce that NVDA 2021.2 is now available for download. Featuring preliminary Windows 11 support, Updates to the COM Registration fixing tool eSpeak-NG, LibLouis, Braille & more! We encourage all users to upgrade to this version.


Kind regards

Quentin.

--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: Is it possible to drag-and-drop with NVDA and the keyboard

 

On Mon, Sep 13, 2021 at 06:45 PM, Gene wrote:
the context I know about is when you are using it instead of copy and paste files.
-
Which would be, by far and away, the most common context.

But, as was noted at the beginning, it's also very common for uploading files, too.  While this would certainly be, broadly, a sort of copy and paste action most wouldn't think of it that way.  I certainly don't.

The only context I know of where two different windows or dialog boxes are not involved is in things like quizzes where drag and drop is used to "draw a line" between a pair of items where there is a collection in two columns where you have to match one in the first to one in the second.  Drag and drop became the "electronic pencil" where the thing you picked up in column one, then dragged atop an item in column two and dropped it, caused the line to be drawn.  That, of course, can be easily done by other means, like filling in a letter for the item in column one in an edit box in front of each item in column two to indicate pairings.   The drag and drop variant came about as a direct visual replacement for the old (and sighted) line drawing to match pairs method.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

         ~Martin Luther King, Jr.

 


Re: Is it possible to drag-and-drop with NVDA and the keyboard

Gene
 

I saw the Mozilla Enhancements part of what you wrote but I didn’t notice NVDA. 
 
One interesting thing about drag and drop in some contexts is that you have to have two windows opened.  While I have found it to be very unreliable, I suspect some people find it not possible to work with no matter how hard they try because they don’t know that.  the context I know about is when you are using it instead of copy and paste files.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2021 5:35 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is it possible to drag-and-drop with NVDA and the keyboard
 

Gene wrote:

> I checked to be sure and the Mozilla Enhancements add-on is an NVDA add-on.

 

Yes, it is, which is what I wrote in my original reply.

 

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

JAWS Certified, 2019

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

 

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2021 6:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is it possible to drag-and-drop with NVDA and the keyboard

 

I checked to be sure and the Mozilla Enhancements add-on is an NVDA add-on. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Monday, September 13, 2021 5:20 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Is it possible to drag-and-drop with NVDA and the keyboard

 

Brian wrote:

The actual need for drag and drop (as opposed to it being an option) seems to be fading out somewhat,

 

I agree. The only situation where I actually had to use drag and drop was with Thunderbird when I wanted to change the order of columns in a mailbox folder. At that time Thunderbird had no method for doing this using the keyboard. I haven’t used Thunderbird in quite some time on a regular basis and so this may have been addressed. Anyway, I used NVDA’s drag and drop commands to do it. It took a great deal of concentration and I had to be very methodical in ensuring that I was carefully performing the correct sequence of commands to get the job done but get it done I did. This was before the very wonderful Mozilla Enhancements NVDA addon which eliminated the need to use drag and drop emulation.

 

 

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

JAWS Certified, 2019

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

 

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2021 3:59 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is it possible to drag-and-drop with NVDA and the keyboard

 

On Mon, Sep 13, 2021 at 03:03 PM, Tim M wrote:

That is just one of the many working bugs both screen readers have, and either haven't gotten to or just won't fix.

-
The thing is, I can't necessarily even say it's a bug.   Drag and drop "via the sighted method" is a thing unto itself, where the thing that has focus and is being dragged moves in real time and keeps focus throughout the movement until one releases the left mouse button over the drop zone.  If you release that button elsewhere (anywhere that the thing cannot be dropped) it simply remains where it had been.

With a screen reader, you have to gain focus, select, and "left mouse lock" on the object - and these three things are easy - but then navigate to the drop zone without ever giving full focus to anything else, and that is very tricky indeed to do, as I've found out in many other contexts.  I have not been willing to play much with emulated drag and drop because I try, whenever possible, to avoid the use of drag and drop, particularly when it comes to a screen reader.

The actual need for drag and drop (as opposed to it being an option) seems to be fading out somewhat, which is great as far as accessibility goes.  I'd far rather cut and paste, or choose to upload using an upload dialog, or similar than drag and drop.  I even do this more frequently than actual drag and drop because I'm often selecting multiple, non-contiguous files and it's very, very easy after having done so to lose that selection if your mouse pointer is even the tiniest bit outside "the grab zone" for the collection of files.  I'd rather hit CTRL + X, get to where I need them to go, and hit CTRL + P.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

         ~Martin Luther King, Jr.

 


Re: Is it possible to drag-and-drop with NVDA and the keyboard

David Goldfield
 

Gene wrote:

> I checked to be sure and the Mozilla Enhancements add-on is an NVDA add-on. 

 

Yes, it is, which is what I wrote in my original reply.

 

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

JAWS Certified, 2019

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

 

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2021 6:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is it possible to drag-and-drop with NVDA and the keyboard

 

I checked to be sure and the Mozilla Enhancements add-on is an NVDA add-on. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Monday, September 13, 2021 5:20 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Is it possible to drag-and-drop with NVDA and the keyboard

 

Brian wrote:

The actual need for drag and drop (as opposed to it being an option) seems to be fading out somewhat,

 

I agree. The only situation where I actually had to use drag and drop was with Thunderbird when I wanted to change the order of columns in a mailbox folder. At that time Thunderbird had no method for doing this using the keyboard. I haven’t used Thunderbird in quite some time on a regular basis and so this may have been addressed. Anyway, I used NVDA’s drag and drop commands to do it. It took a great deal of concentration and I had to be very methodical in ensuring that I was carefully performing the correct sequence of commands to get the job done but get it done I did. This was before the very wonderful Mozilla Enhancements NVDA addon which eliminated the need to use drag and drop emulation.

 

 

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

JAWS Certified, 2019

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

 

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2021 3:59 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is it possible to drag-and-drop with NVDA and the keyboard

 

On Mon, Sep 13, 2021 at 03:03 PM, Tim M wrote:

That is just one of the many working bugs both screen readers have, and either haven't gotten to or just won't fix.

-
The thing is, I can't necessarily even say it's a bug.   Drag and drop "via the sighted method" is a thing unto itself, where the thing that has focus and is being dragged moves in real time and keeps focus throughout the movement until one releases the left mouse button over the drop zone.  If you release that button elsewhere (anywhere that the thing cannot be dropped) it simply remains where it had been.

With a screen reader, you have to gain focus, select, and "left mouse lock" on the object - and these three things are easy - but then navigate to the drop zone without ever giving full focus to anything else, and that is very tricky indeed to do, as I've found out in many other contexts.  I have not been willing to play much with emulated drag and drop because I try, whenever possible, to avoid the use of drag and drop, particularly when it comes to a screen reader.

The actual need for drag and drop (as opposed to it being an option) seems to be fading out somewhat, which is great as far as accessibility goes.  I'd far rather cut and paste, or choose to upload using an upload dialog, or similar than drag and drop.  I even do this more frequently than actual drag and drop because I'm often selecting multiple, non-contiguous files and it's very, very easy after having done so to lose that selection if your mouse pointer is even the tiniest bit outside "the grab zone" for the collection of files.  I'd rather hit CTRL + X, get to where I need them to go, and hit CTRL + P.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

         ~Martin Luther King, Jr.

 


Re: Is it possible to drag-and-drop with NVDA and the keyboard

Gene
 

I checked to be sure and the Mozilla Enhancements add-on is an NVDA add-on. 
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2021 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is it possible to drag-and-drop with NVDA and the keyboard
 

Brian wrote:

The actual need for drag and drop (as opposed to it being an option) seems to be fading out somewhat,

 

I agree. The only situation where I actually had to use drag and drop was with Thunderbird when I wanted to change the order of columns in a mailbox folder. At that time Thunderbird had no method for doing this using the keyboard. I haven’t used Thunderbird in quite some time on a regular basis and so this may have been addressed. Anyway, I used NVDA’s drag and drop commands to do it. It took a great deal of concentration and I had to be very methodical in ensuring that I was carefully performing the correct sequence of commands to get the job done but get it done I did. This was before the very wonderful Mozilla Enhancements NVDA addon which eliminated the need to use drag and drop emulation.

 

 

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

JAWS Certified, 2019

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

 

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2021 3:59 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is it possible to drag-and-drop with NVDA and the keyboard

 

On Mon, Sep 13, 2021 at 03:03 PM, Tim M wrote:

That is just one of the many working bugs both screen readers have, and either haven't gotten to or just won't fix.

-
The thing is, I can't necessarily even say it's a bug.   Drag and drop "via the sighted method" is a thing unto itself, where the thing that has focus and is being dragged moves in real time and keeps focus throughout the movement until one releases the left mouse button over the drop zone.  If you release that button elsewhere (anywhere that the thing cannot be dropped) it simply remains where it had been.

With a screen reader, you have to gain focus, select, and "left mouse lock" on the object - and these three things are easy - but then navigate to the drop zone without ever giving full focus to anything else, and that is very tricky indeed to do, as I've found out in many other contexts.  I have not been willing to play much with emulated drag and drop because I try, whenever possible, to avoid the use of drag and drop, particularly when it comes to a screen reader.

The actual need for drag and drop (as opposed to it being an option) seems to be fading out somewhat, which is great as far as accessibility goes.  I'd far rather cut and paste, or choose to upload using an upload dialog, or similar than drag and drop.  I even do this more frequently than actual drag and drop because I'm often selecting multiple, non-contiguous files and it's very, very easy after having done so to lose that selection if your mouse pointer is even the tiniest bit outside "the grab zone" for the collection of files.  I'd rather hit CTRL + X, get to where I need them to go, and hit CTRL + P.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

         ~Martin Luther King, Jr.

 


Re: Is it possible to drag-and-drop with NVDA and the keyboard

Gene
 

Thunderbird hasn’t addressed it.  You have to use an add-on, which, as I recall is an NVDA add-on. 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2021 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is it possible to drag-and-drop with NVDA and the keyboard
 

Brian wrote:

The actual need for drag and drop (as opposed to it being an option) seems to be fading out somewhat,

 

I agree. The only situation where I actually had to use drag and drop was with Thunderbird when I wanted to change the order of columns in a mailbox folder. At that time Thunderbird had no method for doing this using the keyboard. I haven’t used Thunderbird in quite some time on a regular basis and so this may have been addressed. Anyway, I used NVDA’s drag and drop commands to do it. It took a great deal of concentration and I had to be very methodical in ensuring that I was carefully performing the correct sequence of commands to get the job done but get it done I did. This was before the very wonderful Mozilla Enhancements NVDA addon which eliminated the need to use drag and drop emulation.

 

 

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

JAWS Certified, 2019

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

 

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2021 3:59 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is it possible to drag-and-drop with NVDA and the keyboard

 

On Mon, Sep 13, 2021 at 03:03 PM, Tim M wrote:

That is just one of the many working bugs both screen readers have, and either haven't gotten to or just won't fix.

-
The thing is, I can't necessarily even say it's a bug.   Drag and drop "via the sighted method" is a thing unto itself, where the thing that has focus and is being dragged moves in real time and keeps focus throughout the movement until one releases the left mouse button over the drop zone.  If you release that button elsewhere (anywhere that the thing cannot be dropped) it simply remains where it had been.

With a screen reader, you have to gain focus, select, and "left mouse lock" on the object - and these three things are easy - but then navigate to the drop zone without ever giving full focus to anything else, and that is very tricky indeed to do, as I've found out in many other contexts.  I have not been willing to play much with emulated drag and drop because I try, whenever possible, to avoid the use of drag and drop, particularly when it comes to a screen reader.

The actual need for drag and drop (as opposed to it being an option) seems to be fading out somewhat, which is great as far as accessibility goes.  I'd far rather cut and paste, or choose to upload using an upload dialog, or similar than drag and drop.  I even do this more frequently than actual drag and drop because I'm often selecting multiple, non-contiguous files and it's very, very easy after having done so to lose that selection if your mouse pointer is even the tiniest bit outside "the grab zone" for the collection of files.  I'd rather hit CTRL + X, get to where I need them to go, and hit CTRL + P.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

         ~Martin Luther King, Jr.

 


Re: Is it possible to drag-and-drop with NVDA and the keyboard

David Goldfield
 

Brian wrote:

The actual need for drag and drop (as opposed to it being an option) seems to be fading out somewhat,

 

I agree. The only situation where I actually had to use drag and drop was with Thunderbird when I wanted to change the order of columns in a mailbox folder. At that time Thunderbird had no method for doing this using the keyboard. I haven’t used Thunderbird in quite some time on a regular basis and so this may have been addressed. Anyway, I used NVDA’s drag and drop commands to do it. It took a great deal of concentration and I had to be very methodical in ensuring that I was carefully performing the correct sequence of commands to get the job done but get it done I did. This was before the very wonderful Mozilla Enhancements NVDA addon which eliminated the need to use drag and drop emulation.

 

 

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

JAWS Certified, 2019

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

 

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2021 3:59 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is it possible to drag-and-drop with NVDA and the keyboard

 

On Mon, Sep 13, 2021 at 03:03 PM, Tim M wrote:

That is just one of the many working bugs both screen readers have, and either haven't gotten to or just won't fix.

-
The thing is, I can't necessarily even say it's a bug.   Drag and drop "via the sighted method" is a thing unto itself, where the thing that has focus and is being dragged moves in real time and keeps focus throughout the movement until one releases the left mouse button over the drop zone.  If you release that button elsewhere (anywhere that the thing cannot be dropped) it simply remains where it had been.

With a screen reader, you have to gain focus, select, and "left mouse lock" on the object - and these three things are easy - but then navigate to the drop zone without ever giving full focus to anything else, and that is very tricky indeed to do, as I've found out in many other contexts.  I have not been willing to play much with emulated drag and drop because I try, whenever possible, to avoid the use of drag and drop, particularly when it comes to a screen reader.

The actual need for drag and drop (as opposed to it being an option) seems to be fading out somewhat, which is great as far as accessibility goes.  I'd far rather cut and paste, or choose to upload using an upload dialog, or similar than drag and drop.  I even do this more frequently than actual drag and drop because I'm often selecting multiple, non-contiguous files and it's very, very easy after having done so to lose that selection if your mouse pointer is even the tiniest bit outside "the grab zone" for the collection of files.  I'd rather hit CTRL + X, get to where I need them to go, and hit CTRL + P.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

         ~Martin Luther King, Jr.

 


Re: Is it possible to drag-and-drop with NVDA and the keyboard

 

On Mon, Sep 13, 2021 at 03:03 PM, Tim M wrote:
That is just one of the many working bugs both screen readers have, and either haven't gotten to or just won't fix.
-
The thing is, I can't necessarily even say it's a bug.   Drag and drop "via the sighted method" is a thing unto itself, where the thing that has focus and is being dragged moves in real time and keeps focus throughout the movement until one releases the left mouse button over the drop zone.  If you release that button elsewhere (anywhere that the thing cannot be dropped) it simply remains where it had been.

With a screen reader, you have to gain focus, select, and "left mouse lock" on the object - and these three things are easy - but then navigate to the drop zone without ever giving full focus to anything else, and that is very tricky indeed to do, as I've found out in many other contexts.  I have not been willing to play much with emulated drag and drop because I try, whenever possible, to avoid the use of drag and drop, particularly when it comes to a screen reader.

The actual need for drag and drop (as opposed to it being an option) seems to be fading out somewhat, which is great as far as accessibility goes.  I'd far rather cut and paste, or choose to upload using an upload dialog, or similar than drag and drop.  I even do this more frequently than actual drag and drop because I'm often selecting multiple, non-contiguous files and it's very, very easy after having done so to lose that selection if your mouse pointer is even the tiniest bit outside "the grab zone" for the collection of files.  I'd rather hit CTRL + X, get to where I need them to go, and hit CTRL + P.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

         ~Martin Luther King, Jr.

 


Re: Is it possible to drag-and-drop with NVDA and the keyboard

Tim M
 

That is just one of the many working bugs both screen readers have, and either haven't gotten to or just won't fix. i would give better odds it being more workable with NVDA.



On 9/13/2021 12:35 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Mon, Sep 13, 2021 at 12:23 PM, Tim M wrote:
still only half works never was it dependable.
-
That's my personal experience with emulated drag and drop.  It's proven completely unreliable for me.  But, that being said, what you said about when it works, it works great is also my experience.  It's just a crap shoot as to what situations it will and what situations it won't.

It's also quite possible for someone who can't see to use actual drag and drop when the direction of movement is constrained (e.g., moving something left or right in Quick Launch icons) with a bit of practice.  But it is impractical when you have no idea of where, exactly, "the drop zone" might have appeared on the screen.  Grabbing for the drag with a mouse or mouse pad is dirt simple once you have focus on the thing you want to drag, but locating the drop zone is generally very difficult to impossible.  Even then, there are certain exceptions, but those are a case-by-case sort of thing.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

         ~Martin Luther King, Jr.

 


Re: Is it possible to drag-and-drop with NVDA and the keyboard

Khalid Anwar
 

Hi Brian,
There is a little bit of technical information about the software on this page:


Re: Is it possible to drag-and-drop with NVDA and the keyboard

 

On Mon, Sep 13, 2021 at 12:23 PM, Tim M wrote:
still only half works never was it dependable.
-
That's my personal experience with emulated drag and drop.  It's proven completely unreliable for me.  But, that being said, what you said about when it works, it works great is also my experience.  It's just a crap shoot as to what situations it will and what situations it won't.

It's also quite possible for someone who can't see to use actual drag and drop when the direction of movement is constrained (e.g., moving something left or right in Quick Launch icons) with a bit of practice.  But it is impractical when you have no idea of where, exactly, "the drop zone" might have appeared on the screen.  Grabbing for the drag with a mouse or mouse pad is dirt simple once you have focus on the thing you want to drag, but locating the drop zone is generally very difficult to impossible.  Even then, there are certain exceptions, but those are a case-by-case sort of thing.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

         ~Martin Luther King, Jr.

 


Re: Is it possible to drag-and-drop with NVDA and the keyboard

Tim M
 

Both NVDA and JFW have this ability.

However, it depends on the windows your moving to, because it don't work everywhere. That is why its hardly used.

Its mostly a pipe dream, but when it does work great. They had that for over twenty years in JFW and still only half works never was it dependable.



On 9/13/2021 8:41 AM, Khalid Anwar wrote:
Good morning,
 
I’ve been making a lot of post recently and I just wanted to thank everyone for the help and advice I’ve been given so far, a lot of things seem to have all come up at once.
this question has been prompted by my company using an app called file stream to upload files to the shared drive.
As far as I can tell, the only way to use it is to drag and drop the file into the app, and the file itself is an excel spreadsheet.
Does anyone know if it’s possible to drag-and-drop with NVDA, or if there are any other ways using the keyboard to move large files from one place to another.


Re: Is it possible to drag-and-drop with NVDA and the keyboard

Jujube
 

Hi, I think i saw this question posted elsewhere. I recall seeing this addon that may help ages ago. https://github.com/javidominguez/DragAndDrop/releases/

Otherwise, drag and drop isn't really something done by those who are blind and is thus replaced with other keyboard commands, and it depends on what app you use.

On Mon, Sep 13, 2021 at 5:41 AM Khalid Anwar <anwarkhalid850@...> wrote:
Good morning,
 
I’ve been making a lot of post recently and I just wanted to thank everyone for the help and advice I’ve been given so far, a lot of things seem to have all come up at once.
this question has been prompted by my company using an app called file stream to upload files to the shared drive.
As far as I can tell, the only way to use it is to drag and drop the file into the app, and the file itself is an excel spreadsheet.
Does anyone know if it’s possible to drag-and-drop with NVDA, or if there are any other ways using the keyboard to move large files from one place to another.


Re: NVDA-1 help mode, NVDA-f3

David Mellor
 

Thanks Gene.
That could be awkward. I use this to check if keys I'd like to map add-ons to is free. I didn't realise it was context sensitive.
David



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 13 September 2021 16:30
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA-1 help mode, NVDA-f3

You have to be in a program that supports browse mode and be in browse mode to have this command reported.  To an extent, input help is context sensative.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2021 10:23 AM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA-1 help mode, NVDA-f3
 
In help mode, NVDA-1, hitting NVDA-f3 doesn't report anything. This is used
to find the next occurance in a search.
David






Re: NVDA-1 help mode, NVDA-f3

Gene
 

You have to be in a program that supports browse mode and be in browse mode to have this command reported.  To an extent, input help is context sensative.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2021 10:23 AM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA-1 help mode, NVDA-f3
 
In help mode, NVDA-1, hitting NVDA-f3 doesn't report anything. This is used
to find the next occurance in a search.
David






NVDA-1 help mode, NVDA-f3

David Mellor
 

In help mode, NVDA-1, hitting NVDA-f3 doesn't report anything. This is used
to find the next occurance in a search.
David

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