Date   

Re: Clock add-on 21.09 and other add-on updates #addonrelease

Betsy Grenevitch
 

My clock is not working with the new NVDA update. It does not show it as incompatible from what I can tell but it is no longer announcing the time on the half and hour.


On 9/14/2021 8:27 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Ah, custom date and time formats? It might be possible, at least for Gregorian calendar - might not hold true on all calendars.

Even then, I'm a bit hesitant to add new features at this time:

  1. I'm moving away from date/time format specifiers in general at this time as it is prone to errors if not done well and is not really user friendly (one can argue custom date/time format might make things better for users).
  2. My job with the Clock add-on at this time is to modernize and update existing features. This is more so as Clock add-on is not my own add-on.
  3. Most importantly, I'm limited in what I can do now (will explain in the next post).

Cheers,

Joseph

--
Betsy Grenevitch 678-862-3876


Notice: what to expect in my add-ons in the future

 

Hello all,

Some announcements about what to expect with my add-ons now that I’m no longer part of the users community:

  • The next stable add-on releases (October) will require NvDA 2021.2 due to changes made in the newest NVDA that will change how add-ons work. Affected add-ons include Control Usage Assistant, Enhanced Touch Gestures, Event Tracker, GoldWave, StationPlaylist, and Windows App Essentials.
  • I’m ending maintenance for most add-ons by end of this year. Affected add-ons are Control Usage Assistant, Enhanced Touch Gestures, Event Tracker, GoldWave, Resource Monitor, and StationPlaylist. The last version of Event Tracker under my maintenance will be released in October, and other add-ons mentioned will get second to last updates, with the final updates coming out in early January 2022.
  • Clock: the next version of this add-on is tentatively scheduled for November. After that, I hope to release another release in January 2022 with localization updates before handing the add-on back to the community for further maintenance (that’s why I noted to William that I’m limited in what I can do now). My job with this add-on for now is modernizing and updating existing features, including a vast overhaul of quiet hours definition and changing the user interface messages to make them more user-friendly.
  • Extended Winamp and Golden Cursor: the next releases are scheduled for next week and will be the final releases under my maintenance.
  • Add-on Updater and Windows App Essentials: eventually I plan to end maintenance for these provided that the big ideas from these add-ons (updating add-ons and improved Windows 10/11/apps support) are incorporated into NVDA. I hope to maintain them at least until NVDA 2022.1 is released, but then Add-on Updater might be end of life way before that once the rumored Add-on Store hosted by NV Access becomes reality.

IMPORTANT: Clock, Extended Winamp, and Golden Cursor are not my add-ons.

I’m ending maintenance for add-ons so I can focus on graduate school education (having experienced grad courses briefly, I understand it will be difficult to balance my role between a student and a software developer as the grad school progresses). I have asked add-ons community to look for people who will maintain my add-ons past 2021.

Thank you. Please stay safe and healthy.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: Now official: goodbye, NVDA community - retiring from code contributions

Luis Carlos González Moráles
 

Joseph, I really don't have words to really congratulate your work you've did almost this entire decade! Thank you a billion, eaven a quintillion! tymes for all the work you've put on this amazing masterpiece of work I call a free, open source screen reader

Joseph Lee wrote:

Hello NVDA users,

A few months ago I announced my retirement from actively contributing code to NVDA screen reader. However Windows 11 was announced in June, so I decided to stay for a while to assist Nv Access with Windows 11 support. Now that NVDA 2021.2 is here with preliminary Windows 11 support and after spending some time in graduate school education, I can now make it official:

Goodbye, NVDA community.

Although I’m moving on from contributions, I’ll still be around somewhere – reading, writing, research, and other activities I might be doing. The NVDA community has been a valuable part of my life for the last nine years. Although I’m closing a chapter in my life, the memories I had with you are too valuable to forget. In some ways, I’m following the footsteps of Jamie Teh, one of the founders of Nv Access and now at Mozilla – although I’ll be focusing on other life priorities, I’m open to providing advice from time to time. Remember what I taught you for the last few years: use the product to its full potential, and NonVisual Desktop Access is not just a screen reader – it is a global movement.

I hope to publish what to expect from my add-ons next before making room for the next group of contributors and experts – add-on maintenance is the unfinished business, and I hope to pass on most add-ons to the community by end of this year.

Thank you, NVDA community, for everything you’ve done for me and giving me a chance to make a difference for you for the last decade.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

Joseph S. Lee

Certified NVDA Expert, 2019

Volunteer code contributor, translator, and community add-ons author and reviewer, NonVisual Desktop Access screen reader project (June 2012 to September 2021)

Graduate student and speech and debate coach, California State University, Los Angeles (August 2021 to present)

Windows Insider (October 2014 to present)

Former moderator, NVDA users list (2013 to 2016)

Founding chair, NVDACon (2014 to 2016)

Member, NVDA Council (2019 to present)



Now official: goodbye, NVDA community - retiring from code contributions

 

Hello NVDA users,

A few months ago I announced my retirement from actively contributing code to NVDA screen reader. However Windows 11 was announced in June, so I decided to stay for a while to assist Nv Access with Windows 11 support. Now that NVDA 2021.2 is here with preliminary Windows 11 support and after spending some time in graduate school education, I can now make it official:

Goodbye, NVDA community.

Although I’m moving on from contributions, I’ll still be around somewhere – reading, writing, research, and other activities I might be doing. The NVDA community has been a valuable part of my life for the last nine years. Although I’m closing a chapter in my life, the memories I had with you are too valuable to forget. In some ways, I’m following the footsteps of Jamie Teh, one of the founders of Nv Access and now at Mozilla – although I’ll be focusing on other life priorities, I’m open to providing advice from time to time. Remember what I taught you for the last few years: use the product to its full potential, and NonVisual Desktop Access is not just a screen reader – it is a global movement.

I hope to publish what to expect from my add-ons next before making room for the next group of contributors and experts – add-on maintenance is the unfinished business, and I hope to pass on most add-ons to the community by end of this year.

Thank you, NVDA community, for everything you’ve done for me and giving me a chance to make a difference for you for the last decade.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

Joseph S. Lee

Certified NVDA Expert, 2019

Volunteer code contributor, translator, and community add-ons author and reviewer, NonVisual Desktop Access screen reader project (June 2012 to September 2021)

Graduate student and speech and debate coach, California State University, Los Angeles (August 2021 to present)

Windows Insider (October 2014 to present)

Former moderator, NVDA users list (2013 to 2016)

Founding chair, NVDACon (2014 to 2016)

Member, NVDA Council (2019 to present)


Problem to anounce some menu items

Marco Oros
 

Hello.

I have problem with announcing menu items in Mozilla Thunderbird. Let me explain It deeply:

For example, when I open submenu 'priority', NVDA doesn't report me first item, but when I press down arrow, It says next item without any problem.

Please, could You look on those submenu issues?

Note: I have Thunderbird in Slovak language, not in English.

Thank You.

Best regards

Marco Oros


Re: Clock add-on 21.09 and other add-on updates #addonrelease

 

Hi,

Ah, custom date and time formats? It might be possible, at least for Gregorian calendar - might not hold true on all calendars.

Even then, I'm a bit hesitant to add new features at this time:

  1. I'm moving away from date/time format specifiers in general at this time as it is prone to errors if not done well and is not really user friendly (one can argue custom date/time format might make things better for users).
  2. My job with the Clock add-on at this time is to modernize and update existing features. This is more so as Clock add-on is not my own add-on.
  3. Most importantly, I'm limited in what I can do now (will explain in the next post).

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: Is it possible to drag-and-drop with NVDA and the keyboard

 

How do you do emulated drag-and-drop? I didn't know that this kind of capability even exists in NVDA...


Re: Why is SAPI5 louder in a portable copy of NVDA than an installed one?

John Sanfilippo
 

I don't have an answer, I just want to let you know you're not alone in noticing this. My experience is similar, though I haven't payed as close attention to details.
John Sanfilippo


Re: NVDA 2021.2 is now available

benmoxey@...
 

Very well said, David! Great people and a phenomenal product!

On 14 Sep 2021, at 1:43 pm, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:

I would like to congratulate NV Access for releasing this update after only one beta and one RC build. Of course, more betas and more release candidates are absolutely fine and having them only means that more bugs were addressed prior to the official public release. Still, the fact that we only needed one of each is a testimony to the product’s overall stability and for its robust code. The good folks at NV Access deserve a celebration and I commend them for their great work and service to the community.

 

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

JAWS Certified, 2019

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

 

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2021 10:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA 2021.2 is now available

 

Hi everyone,

 

NV Access is pleased to announce that NVDA 2021.2 is now available for download. Featuring preliminary Windows 11 support, Updates to the COM Registration fixing tool eSpeak-NG, LibLouis, Braille & more! We encourage all users to upgrade to this version.

 

 

Kind regards

 

Quentin.

 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 




cranky windows defender

 

Hi all.

Well defender updated itself today.

Or at lest it must have.

After whatever happened defender no longer seems to completely acknowledge my exclusions.

Now on my internal drive thats not a problem.

Well drives but on my backup which contains above all installers for games, bgt, chinese installers, and a lot of innosetups, defender seems to half honnor my exclusions.

That is, if I scan for them directly it will say these are skipped which is fine, bgt and how its done means its really not a good idea to scan as they get misdetected.

However the files will not execute because windows defender has blocked them.

The exclusions on my internal drives work properly.

If I then delete and add the exclusions everything works till I reconnect the drive then it repeats.

Defender then says it can't remediate the file I then tell it to start actions.

It does, and finds nothing because the folder in question is excluded so its noticing this.

Thats at least a relief.

I initially thought it was ignoring my exclusions completely, that and in of itself is not the case.

However its trying to run scans and protection analisis against excluded folders and drives.

This would be fine but I only noticed this today.

In the short to medium term, its not a problem.

I can probably disable windows defender notifications or turn it off completely when I transfer stuff over.

However I really don't want this stuff to spread to my internal drives so in the short termm I will just shut down notifications and clear them every so often.

Now granted, most of this stuff is in bgt so if I got rid of all my old games and old software maybe this issue will not be an issue, but even if this is the case, it did work before.

Its still working on my internal where all folders on my backup drives with bgt stuff in them, the drive has bgt portable apps, games mostly, and the rest is media files pritty much well that works for now.

Anyone else encountered this issue?

I strongly suspect its a recent bug in the latest update or even in today's definition update as defender wasn't so crazy about what I owned before.

I don't really want to turn off windows defender while transfering or running files from my portable drive but if its going to do this then I may have to.


And if it spreads, I will have to turn it off maybe perminantly.

Thats not a good idea but at least while running a program on my system that may be my only option.

Defender is the only issue, apart from the task schedualer snapin not loading or running right but I can do without that.

I just want defender to behave.


Re: Clock add-on 21.09 and other add-on updates #addonrelease

William
 

Joseph,

thanks for your hard work.

Could you add a function to the clock addon which allow user to define the date and time string?

e.g. dddd mm yyyy etc.


Why is SAPI5 louder in a portable copy of NVDA than an installed one?

John Isige
 

Hey all.


This isn't really an issue I guess, I'm just curious. SAPI5 voices, possibly others, are louder in some cases than others for me. I have NVDA set to be used at log on, and Microsoft David is louder when Windows first boots. It starts reading the login prompt, then NVDA runs, I mean the copy that starts after Windows is loaded. I hit escape a couple of times, and instead of using SAPI5 Eloquence, it goes back to the login prompt with MS David, which is softer than it was on initial boot.


Similarly, just now I updated to 2021.2, and when it booted that copy, SAPI5 Eloquence was louder than it was before it started, and after it installed and ran the new installed copy. I also noticed that a portable copy I made a while back for some reason was louder too. I don't have anything obvious like audio ducking enabled, it happens with or without addons loaded, my volume is set to 100% in NVDA in all cases. I shouldn't be that it's switching sound interfaces, because all of this speech is coming out of my laptop's headphone jack. Like I said, it's not a real issue, as such, I mean NVDA works just fine, it's just not as loud as it could be I guess, and in fact, if it was louder like it is in those cases, I'd probably turn the volume down from 100%. It's just kind of odd that's all, and I'm just curious about what could be going on.


Clock add-on 21.09 and other add-on updates #addonrelease

 

Hello everyone,

Another good news on top of release of NVDA 2021.2: more add-ons have become compatible with NVDA 2021.1 or later. Among these are MP3 Direct Cut, Say current keyboard language, Day of the week and a few others. If y9ou happen to be using Add-on Updater, you can now install updates to these add-ons.

 

Speaking of add-on updates, Clock version 21.09 was just released. This is a significant update in that it modernizes add-on internals. More importantly, starting from this release, NVDA 2019.3 or later is required. This is just the beginning – I’m working on a more significant release that will not only change the internals a bit, but will also introduce big changes to Clock settings interface, quiet hours definition and others; this big release is scheduled for sometime later this year (likely November), and you can subscribe to dev channel to receive development builds for the next release.

 

One more thing: I’m finalizing the October 2021 releases of most of my add-ons. Due to internal changes, most of my add-ons will now require NVDA 2021.2 or later, especially if you are planning to use Windows 11 with NVDA.

Enjoy the new add-on updates.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: NVDA 2021.2 is now available

David Goldfield
 

I would like to congratulate NV Access for releasing this update after only one beta and one RC build. Of course, more betas and more release candidates are absolutely fine and having them only means that more bugs were addressed prior to the official public release. Still, the fact that we only needed one of each is a testimony to the product’s overall stability and for its robust code. The good folks at NV Access deserve a celebration and I commend them for their great work and service to the community.

 

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

JAWS Certified, 2019

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

 

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2021 10:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA 2021.2 is now available

 

Hi everyone,

 

NV Access is pleased to announce that NVDA 2021.2 is now available for download. Featuring preliminary Windows 11 support, Updates to the COM Registration fixing tool eSpeak-NG, LibLouis, Braille & more! We encourage all users to upgrade to this version.

 

 

Kind regards

 

Quentin.

 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 


News – NV Access - NVDA 2021.2 Released #nvaccessnewsfeed

nvda@nvda.groups.io Integration <nvda@...>
 

NVDA 2021.2 Released

By Sean Budd

NV Access is pleased to announce that version 2021.2 of NVDA, the free screen reader for Microsoft Windows, is now available for download. We encourage all users to upgrade to this version.

Highlights

NVDA 2021.2 introduces preliminary Windows 11 support. While Windows 11 is yet to be released, this release has been tested on preview versions of Windows 11. This includes an important fix for Screen Curtain (see important note).

The COM Registration Fixing Tool can now resolve more problems when running NVDA. There are updates to the synthesizer eSpeak and braille translator LibLouis. There are also various bug fixes and improvements, notably for braille support and Windows terminals, calculator, emoji panel and clipboard history.

Important Note:

Due to a change in the Windows Magnification API, Screen Curtain had to be updated to support the newest versions of Windows. Use NVDA 2021.2 to activate Screen Curtain with Windows 10 21H2 (10.0.19044) or later. This includes Windows 10 Insiders and Windows 11. For security purposes, when using a new version of Windows, get visual confirmation that the Screen Curtain makes the screen entirely black.

Please note, after updating any software, it is a good idea to restart the computer. Restart by going to the Shutdown dialog, selecting “restart” and pressing ENTER. Updating software can change files which are in use. This can lead to instability and strange behaviour which is resolved by rebooting. This is the first thing to try if you do notice anything odd after updating.

Links

While downloading NVDA, please consider becoming a monthly donor. Contributions like yours help NV Access continue our important work.

We also have a range of training material in the NV Access Shop to help you increase your skills with NVDA. Start with the popular Basic Training for NVDA in electronic text, audio and braille. Save with the NVDA Productivity Bundle. This includes Basic Training, all our Microsoft Office training, and telephone support.


NVDA 2021.2 is now available

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi everyone,

NV Access is pleased to announce that NVDA 2021.2 is now available for download. Featuring preliminary Windows 11 support, Updates to the COM Registration fixing tool eSpeak-NG, LibLouis, Braille & more! We encourage all users to upgrade to this version.


Kind regards

Quentin.

--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: Is it possible to drag-and-drop with NVDA and the keyboard

 

On Mon, Sep 13, 2021 at 06:45 PM, Gene wrote:
the context I know about is when you are using it instead of copy and paste files.
-
Which would be, by far and away, the most common context.

But, as was noted at the beginning, it's also very common for uploading files, too.  While this would certainly be, broadly, a sort of copy and paste action most wouldn't think of it that way.  I certainly don't.

The only context I know of where two different windows or dialog boxes are not involved is in things like quizzes where drag and drop is used to "draw a line" between a pair of items where there is a collection in two columns where you have to match one in the first to one in the second.  Drag and drop became the "electronic pencil" where the thing you picked up in column one, then dragged atop an item in column two and dropped it, caused the line to be drawn.  That, of course, can be easily done by other means, like filling in a letter for the item in column one in an edit box in front of each item in column two to indicate pairings.   The drag and drop variant came about as a direct visual replacement for the old (and sighted) line drawing to match pairs method.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

         ~Martin Luther King, Jr.

 


Re: Is it possible to drag-and-drop with NVDA and the keyboard

Gene
 

I saw the Mozilla Enhancements part of what you wrote but I didn’t notice NVDA. 
 
One interesting thing about drag and drop in some contexts is that you have to have two windows opened.  While I have found it to be very unreliable, I suspect some people find it not possible to work with no matter how hard they try because they don’t know that.  the context I know about is when you are using it instead of copy and paste files.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2021 5:35 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is it possible to drag-and-drop with NVDA and the keyboard
 

Gene wrote:

> I checked to be sure and the Mozilla Enhancements add-on is an NVDA add-on.

 

Yes, it is, which is what I wrote in my original reply.

 

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

JAWS Certified, 2019

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

 

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2021 6:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is it possible to drag-and-drop with NVDA and the keyboard

 

I checked to be sure and the Mozilla Enhancements add-on is an NVDA add-on. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Monday, September 13, 2021 5:20 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Is it possible to drag-and-drop with NVDA and the keyboard

 

Brian wrote:

The actual need for drag and drop (as opposed to it being an option) seems to be fading out somewhat,

 

I agree. The only situation where I actually had to use drag and drop was with Thunderbird when I wanted to change the order of columns in a mailbox folder. At that time Thunderbird had no method for doing this using the keyboard. I haven’t used Thunderbird in quite some time on a regular basis and so this may have been addressed. Anyway, I used NVDA’s drag and drop commands to do it. It took a great deal of concentration and I had to be very methodical in ensuring that I was carefully performing the correct sequence of commands to get the job done but get it done I did. This was before the very wonderful Mozilla Enhancements NVDA addon which eliminated the need to use drag and drop emulation.

 

 

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

JAWS Certified, 2019

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

 

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2021 3:59 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is it possible to drag-and-drop with NVDA and the keyboard

 

On Mon, Sep 13, 2021 at 03:03 PM, Tim M wrote:

That is just one of the many working bugs both screen readers have, and either haven't gotten to or just won't fix.

-
The thing is, I can't necessarily even say it's a bug.   Drag and drop "via the sighted method" is a thing unto itself, where the thing that has focus and is being dragged moves in real time and keeps focus throughout the movement until one releases the left mouse button over the drop zone.  If you release that button elsewhere (anywhere that the thing cannot be dropped) it simply remains where it had been.

With a screen reader, you have to gain focus, select, and "left mouse lock" on the object - and these three things are easy - but then navigate to the drop zone without ever giving full focus to anything else, and that is very tricky indeed to do, as I've found out in many other contexts.  I have not been willing to play much with emulated drag and drop because I try, whenever possible, to avoid the use of drag and drop, particularly when it comes to a screen reader.

The actual need for drag and drop (as opposed to it being an option) seems to be fading out somewhat, which is great as far as accessibility goes.  I'd far rather cut and paste, or choose to upload using an upload dialog, or similar than drag and drop.  I even do this more frequently than actual drag and drop because I'm often selecting multiple, non-contiguous files and it's very, very easy after having done so to lose that selection if your mouse pointer is even the tiniest bit outside "the grab zone" for the collection of files.  I'd rather hit CTRL + X, get to where I need them to go, and hit CTRL + P.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

         ~Martin Luther King, Jr.

 


Re: Is it possible to drag-and-drop with NVDA and the keyboard

David Goldfield
 

Gene wrote:

> I checked to be sure and the Mozilla Enhancements add-on is an NVDA add-on. 

 

Yes, it is, which is what I wrote in my original reply.

 

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

JAWS Certified, 2019

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

 

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2021 6:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is it possible to drag-and-drop with NVDA and the keyboard

 

I checked to be sure and the Mozilla Enhancements add-on is an NVDA add-on. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Monday, September 13, 2021 5:20 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Is it possible to drag-and-drop with NVDA and the keyboard

 

Brian wrote:

The actual need for drag and drop (as opposed to it being an option) seems to be fading out somewhat,

 

I agree. The only situation where I actually had to use drag and drop was with Thunderbird when I wanted to change the order of columns in a mailbox folder. At that time Thunderbird had no method for doing this using the keyboard. I haven’t used Thunderbird in quite some time on a regular basis and so this may have been addressed. Anyway, I used NVDA’s drag and drop commands to do it. It took a great deal of concentration and I had to be very methodical in ensuring that I was carefully performing the correct sequence of commands to get the job done but get it done I did. This was before the very wonderful Mozilla Enhancements NVDA addon which eliminated the need to use drag and drop emulation.

 

 

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

JAWS Certified, 2019

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

 

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2021 3:59 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is it possible to drag-and-drop with NVDA and the keyboard

 

On Mon, Sep 13, 2021 at 03:03 PM, Tim M wrote:

That is just one of the many working bugs both screen readers have, and either haven't gotten to or just won't fix.

-
The thing is, I can't necessarily even say it's a bug.   Drag and drop "via the sighted method" is a thing unto itself, where the thing that has focus and is being dragged moves in real time and keeps focus throughout the movement until one releases the left mouse button over the drop zone.  If you release that button elsewhere (anywhere that the thing cannot be dropped) it simply remains where it had been.

With a screen reader, you have to gain focus, select, and "left mouse lock" on the object - and these three things are easy - but then navigate to the drop zone without ever giving full focus to anything else, and that is very tricky indeed to do, as I've found out in many other contexts.  I have not been willing to play much with emulated drag and drop because I try, whenever possible, to avoid the use of drag and drop, particularly when it comes to a screen reader.

The actual need for drag and drop (as opposed to it being an option) seems to be fading out somewhat, which is great as far as accessibility goes.  I'd far rather cut and paste, or choose to upload using an upload dialog, or similar than drag and drop.  I even do this more frequently than actual drag and drop because I'm often selecting multiple, non-contiguous files and it's very, very easy after having done so to lose that selection if your mouse pointer is even the tiniest bit outside "the grab zone" for the collection of files.  I'd rather hit CTRL + X, get to where I need them to go, and hit CTRL + P.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

         ~Martin Luther King, Jr.

 


Re: Is it possible to drag-and-drop with NVDA and the keyboard

Gene
 

I checked to be sure and the Mozilla Enhancements add-on is an NVDA add-on. 
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2021 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is it possible to drag-and-drop with NVDA and the keyboard
 

Brian wrote:

The actual need for drag and drop (as opposed to it being an option) seems to be fading out somewhat,

 

I agree. The only situation where I actually had to use drag and drop was with Thunderbird when I wanted to change the order of columns in a mailbox folder. At that time Thunderbird had no method for doing this using the keyboard. I haven’t used Thunderbird in quite some time on a regular basis and so this may have been addressed. Anyway, I used NVDA’s drag and drop commands to do it. It took a great deal of concentration and I had to be very methodical in ensuring that I was carefully performing the correct sequence of commands to get the job done but get it done I did. This was before the very wonderful Mozilla Enhancements NVDA addon which eliminated the need to use drag and drop emulation.

 

 

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

JAWS Certified, 2019

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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2021 3:59 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is it possible to drag-and-drop with NVDA and the keyboard

 

On Mon, Sep 13, 2021 at 03:03 PM, Tim M wrote:

That is just one of the many working bugs both screen readers have, and either haven't gotten to or just won't fix.

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The thing is, I can't necessarily even say it's a bug.   Drag and drop "via the sighted method" is a thing unto itself, where the thing that has focus and is being dragged moves in real time and keeps focus throughout the movement until one releases the left mouse button over the drop zone.  If you release that button elsewhere (anywhere that the thing cannot be dropped) it simply remains where it had been.

With a screen reader, you have to gain focus, select, and "left mouse lock" on the object - and these three things are easy - but then navigate to the drop zone without ever giving full focus to anything else, and that is very tricky indeed to do, as I've found out in many other contexts.  I have not been willing to play much with emulated drag and drop because I try, whenever possible, to avoid the use of drag and drop, particularly when it comes to a screen reader.

The actual need for drag and drop (as opposed to it being an option) seems to be fading out somewhat, which is great as far as accessibility goes.  I'd far rather cut and paste, or choose to upload using an upload dialog, or similar than drag and drop.  I even do this more frequently than actual drag and drop because I'm often selecting multiple, non-contiguous files and it's very, very easy after having done so to lose that selection if your mouse pointer is even the tiniest bit outside "the grab zone" for the collection of files.  I'd rather hit CTRL + X, get to where I need them to go, and hit CTRL + P.
 
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Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

         ~Martin Luther King, Jr.

 

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