Date   

locked Re: Messages Being Marked As Spam - What You Can Do #adminnotice

Gene
 

I looked in the context menu and found nothing earlier.  Perhaps you see what you are reporting if you have the Thunderbird spam filter in the program turned on and a message ends up in the Thunderbird spam filter.  I never use the filter in the program itself and I see nothing such as you report. 
 
Gene
 

From: tim
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2021 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Messages Being Marked As Spam - What You Can Do #adminnotice
 

Must not of looked to hard.

In TB go to the message that is marded as spam in the spam folder.

Now hit your application key or shift+f10 for the context menu and arrow down to mark, right arrow and down arrow to "NOT SPAM" hit enter and your done.

 

 

On 9/27/2021 10:07 PM, Gene wrote:
My guess is that you aren’t doing anything that affects GMail when you do this in the client.  Mhy guess is that your program is running a spam filter and you are telling the program itself not to place the message in the program’s spam folder. 
 
When I am on the GMail site, there is a not spam button.  When I look at my spam mail using Thunderbird, I am seeing the GMail spam folder because I don’t run one in my e-mail program, there is no not spam option in the e-mail program itself.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2021 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Messages Being Marked As Spam - What You Can Do #adminnotice
 
I mark the e-mail messages as “not spam” from my E-mail client, because they seem to go right back into spam if I mark them from the gmail web interface.  Don’t ask me why.  This is pure speculation, but maybe the feedback loop works better when created from an E-mail client.
 
Louise


locked Re: Messages Being Marked As Spam - What You Can Do #adminnotice

tim
 

Must not of looked to hard.

In TB go to the message that is marded as spam in the spam folder.

Now hit your application key or shift+f10 for the context menu and arrow down to mark, right arrow and down arrow to "NOT SPAM" hit enter and your done.



On 9/27/2021 10:07 PM, Gene wrote:
My guess is that you aren’t doing anything that affects GMail when you do this in the client.  Mhy guess is that your program is running a spam filter and you are telling the program itself not to place the message in the program’s spam folder. 
 
When I am on the GMail site, there is a not spam button.  When I look at my spam mail using Thunderbird, I am seeing the GMail spam folder because I don’t run one in my e-mail program, there is no not spam option in the e-mail program itself.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2021 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Messages Being Marked As Spam - What You Can Do #adminnotice
 
I mark the e-mail messages as “not spam” from my E-mail client, because they seem to go right back into spam if I mark them from the gmail web interface.  Don’t ask me why.  This is pure speculation, but maybe the feedback loop works better when created from an E-mail client.
 
Louise


Eloquence and NVDA: automatic language switching

Gianluigi Coppelletti
 

Hi,

I'm testing the demo version of Eloquence by CodeFactory, and when I visit a web page in a language other than the default one, the synthesizer doesn't automatically switch to the language of that page. Obviously the check box concerning the automatic language switching is checked and with Espeak it works fine.

Am I doing something wrong or this option doesn't work with this version of Eloquence?

This happens with NVDA 2021.2 Windows 10 and Eloquence 1.11.0 just downloaded from the official website.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Bye.

Gigi


locked Re: Messages Being Marked As Spam - What You Can Do #adminnotice

Sarah k Alawami
 

Maybe, one never knows with gmail and or other providers.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2021 8:54 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Messages Being Marked As Spam - What You Can Do #adminnotice

 

I mean that evidently, many e-mail providers send some sort of notice back to the source of the messages.  But since I have no interruptions of service when something I receive on an ongoing basis is marked as spam by GMail, it may be marked as spam only internally with no indication sent back to the source.

 

Gene

-----Original message-----

Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2021 10:41 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Messages Being Marked As Spam - What You Can Do #adminnotice

 

On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 11:38 AM, Gene wrote:

I wonder if GMail marks messages as spam in this way.

-
In what way?  [That's a serious question.]

The only way I know of, these days, is that a message gets marked and placed in a the spam folder.  Unmarking it moves it back to the inbox as part of that process.  This isn't Gmail specific.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

         ~Martin Luther King, Jr.

 


locked Re: Messages Being Marked As Spam - What You Can Do #adminnotice

Gene
 

I mean that evidently, many e-mail providers send some sort of notice back to the source of the messages.  But since I have no interruptions of service when something I receive on an ongoing basis is marked as spam by GMail, it may be marked as spam only internally with no indication sent back to the source.
 
Gene

-----Original message-----
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2021 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Messages Being Marked As Spam - What You Can Do #adminnotice
 
On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 11:38 AM, Gene wrote:
I wonder if GMail marks messages as spam in this way.
-
In what way?  [That's a serious question.]

The only way I know of, these days, is that a message gets marked and placed in a the spam folder.  Unmarking it moves it back to the inbox as part of that process.  This isn't Gmail specific.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

         ~Martin Luther King, Jr.

 


locked Re: Messages Being Marked As Spam - What You Can Do #adminnotice

Sarah k Alawami
 

I have seen email marked as spam  from groups.io in my gmail’s spam folder, it’s rare, but annoying when it does happen. I just remove the spam label and hope it does not go back.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2021 8:41 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Messages Being Marked As Spam - What You Can Do #adminnotice

 

On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 11:38 AM, Gene wrote:

I wonder if GMail marks messages as spam in this way. 

-
In what way?  [That's a serious question.]

The only way I know of, these days, is that a message gets marked and placed in a the spam folder.  Unmarking it moves it back to the inbox as part of that process.  This isn't Gmail specific.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

         ~Martin Luther King, Jr.

 


locked Re: Messages Being Marked As Spam - What You Can Do #adminnotice

Sarah k Alawami
 

Not always. I have had my clients move messages right back to spam after marking messages as not spam in gmail’s web interface. This does not happen all the time, but when it does, it’s annoying. And don’t get me started with outlook.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2021 8:55 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Messages Being Marked As Spam - What You Can Do #adminnotice

 

On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 10:07 PM, Gene wrote:

My guess is that you aren’t doing anything that affects GMail when you do this in the client.  Mhy guess is that your program is running a spam filter and you are telling the program itself not to place the message in the program’s spam folder. 

-
Gene,

It depends on the e-mail client and how it interacts with Gmail (or any server, really).  Some send the request to the server, and the moving happens on the server side and gets synchronized back to the client, while others do it locally having zero impact on the server side.

When it comes to Gmail, because of the above, I tend to use the webmail interface when it comes to filtering as I know that whatever is set up on Gmail's server will carry over to any email client that connects to it, while the reverse is not necessarily true.

I can't explain what's going on with Louise, unless her email client of choice has its own spam filter (much like Thunderbird's junk filter) that's post-processing everything that comes in.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

         ~Martin Luther King, Jr.

 


locked Re: Messages Being Marked As Spam - What You Can Do #adminnotice

Sarah k Alawami
 

Not always. I have had messages go right back into my spam folder when marking them as not spam  within 30 seconds or so. It  depends on what email client you are using. Mine is a bit aggressive.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Louise Pfau
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2021 6:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Messages Being Marked As Spam - What You Can Do #adminnotice

 

I mark the e-mail messages as “not spam” from my E-mail client, because they seem to go right back into spam if I mark them from the gmail web interface.  Don’t ask me why.  This is pure speculation, but maybe the feedback loop works better when created from an E-mail client.

 

Louise


locked Re: Messages Being Marked As Spam - What You Can Do #adminnotice

 

On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 11:38 AM, Gene wrote:
I wonder if GMail marks messages as spam in this way. 
-
In what way?  [That's a serious question.]

The only way I know of, these days, is that a message gets marked and placed in a the spam folder.  Unmarking it moves it back to the inbox as part of that process.  This isn't Gmail specific.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

         ~Martin Luther King, Jr.

 


locked Re: Messages Being Marked As Spam - What You Can Do #adminnotice

Gene
 

I wonder if GMail marks messages as spam in this way.  I receive two newsletters that, now and then, are sent to the spam folder.  But even though this may happen once or twice a month, I have never had any interruptions in receiving the newsletters.  This may be an advantage in using Google, that it will send messages to their spam folder, but it may be that they don't mark them in any way except internally.


Gene

On 9/28/2021 10:26 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 12:06 AM, Jackie wrote:
I wonder what would cause that,
as groups.io has all its dns records in place & its reputation is
beyond stellar.
-
I use Gmail and have never had a Groups.io message marked as spam, either.

But my original message was not focused on Gmail, nor is this one other than mentioning it.

Virtually every e-mail service now has feedback loops built in where, when someone marks a message as spam, that information is sent back to the email service provider and they use this to tweak their spam filters.  Some are much more discriminating about how this is done than others are and, for some, all it takes is a very few spam reports for something to suddenly become classified on the server side as spam.

I was active in the Groups.io beta group (now quite a misnomer, but it still exists) and it was (and from what I can tell, remains) a constant battle to prevent groups.io messages from being spam trapped at times for who knows what reason.  But Mark Fletcher, the site owner, was constantly having to contact providers about this.  And what was weirder is that even after he did, and they removed the filter, many did not permanently whitelist the groups.io domain, which they should have.

It is impossible for a subscription service to spam you (and I don't count if someone were spoofing groups.io addresses, which is a separate issue).  If you must subscribe to a group/list to get messages, they are, by definition, not spam.  You requested them, and you can terminate them at will.  Domains like groups.io and freelists.org and similar should be whitelisted by major email providers for this reason, and are, at least by some.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

         ~Martin Luther King, Jr.

 


Re: NVDA Responsiveness in Versions of Microsoft Office

Jujube
 

Thanks Quentin for the reminder. I'll admit I'm very new to github, so I definitely have not checked closely. I'll check again.


On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 1:58 AM Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
Have you checked whether these are all reported on https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues

Using UIA will become the default in time, so it's important that those testing things like this, ensure they are reported.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 4:20 PM Jujube <ellaxyu@...> wrote:
I have a feeling that UIA support is still kind of janky at best and is still under development, and yes, typing is much snappier in word with UIA turned on, and this computer has rather limited system resources btw. I know this isn't quite on topic, but I'll also mention a few things I noticed in Excel with UIA support turned on, and btw I have both office 16/365 (or something like that) which I got from my college for viewing narrated powerpoints and office 2007 (I know, I know, it's so old but that's what my family has). I found the following, particularly with the newer office version (and sorry I know this is Excel):
- Pressing NVDA+Space does not switch between browse an focus modes.
- Pressing NVDA control C and NVDA control R does not allow you to set automatic row and column header reading.
- Commands to select an entire row (shift + down arrow) and commands to select an entire column (control shift down arrow) don't work as intended. Instead, I get something like (selected 1 through 1) which isn't right.
And yes, none of these are a problem with UIA turned off.

And a few issues with excel and braille displays (and yes speech is perfectly fine here):
- When I enter browse mode and navigate between cells, nothing on the braille display changes but I hear all the contents read out to me in speech. This is not at all an issue in focus mode (and yes I did report this on NVDA issue tracker under the name mrsviolafangirl).
- When using the newer version of Excel (and yes this happens no matter if UIA is enabled or not), when I type into a cell with  a braille display connected, the contents of what I'm entering is not showing up on the braille display (but it is spoken just fine in speech) and I have to press escape or enter to read what I typed on the braille display. This is a non issue in my old MS Excel 2007.
And yes, I'm well aware that the number of people who use braille displays is quite limited so I totally understand if braille display issues are hard to reproduce.

Okay sorry for commenting on excel issues on this thread, but if there's some little quirks using NVDA with MS office that can use some fixes, it's worth mentioning lol.



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


locked Re: Messages Being Marked As Spam - What You Can Do #adminnotice

 

On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 12:06 AM, Jackie wrote:
I wonder what would cause that,
as groups.io has all its dns records in place & its reputation is
beyond stellar.
-
I use Gmail and have never had a Groups.io message marked as spam, either.

But my original message was not focused on Gmail, nor is this one other than mentioning it.

Virtually every e-mail service now has feedback loops built in where, when someone marks a message as spam, that information is sent back to the email service provider and they use this to tweak their spam filters.  Some are much more discriminating about how this is done than others are and, for some, all it takes is a very few spam reports for something to suddenly become classified on the server side as spam.

I was active in the Groups.io beta group (now quite a misnomer, but it still exists) and it was (and from what I can tell, remains) a constant battle to prevent groups.io messages from being spam trapped at times for who knows what reason.  But Mark Fletcher, the site owner, was constantly having to contact providers about this.  And what was weirder is that even after he did, and they removed the filter, many did not permanently whitelist the groups.io domain, which they should have.

It is impossible for a subscription service to spam you (and I don't count if someone were spoofing groups.io addresses, which is a separate issue).  If you must subscribe to a group/list to get messages, they are, by definition, not spam.  You requested them, and you can terminate them at will.  Domains like groups.io and freelists.org and similar should be whitelisted by major email providers for this reason, and are, at least by some.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

         ~Martin Luther King, Jr.

 


Using pacmate 40 cell Display With NVDA

H l
 

Hey everyone,

 

I’m using a 40 cell pacmate/focus braile display. What’s the best way to scroll through something like the subjects of e-mails? I’ll be sitting in the listbox in outlook and trying to scroll through the subject line of an unread message and it’ll start jumping around all oer the place! I thought read by paragraph being checked would fix it but not really.

 

Thanks for any suggestions,

Harmony.


Re: Emoji saying 12 in outlook not saying the name

H l
 

I have for about a year now on one of my computers, but not figured out how to fix it. I thought it was just something I had accidentally changed.


Re: NVDA Responsiveness in Versions of Microsoft Office

Quentin Christensen
 

Have you checked whether these are all reported on https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues

Using UIA will become the default in time, so it's important that those testing things like this, ensure they are reported.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 4:20 PM Jujube <ellaxyu@...> wrote:
I have a feeling that UIA support is still kind of janky at best and is still under development, and yes, typing is much snappier in word with UIA turned on, and this computer has rather limited system resources btw. I know this isn't quite on topic, but I'll also mention a few things I noticed in Excel with UIA support turned on, and btw I have both office 16/365 (or something like that) which I got from my college for viewing narrated powerpoints and office 2007 (I know, I know, it's so old but that's what my family has). I found the following, particularly with the newer office version (and sorry I know this is Excel):
- Pressing NVDA+Space does not switch between browse an focus modes.
- Pressing NVDA control C and NVDA control R does not allow you to set automatic row and column header reading.
- Commands to select an entire row (shift + down arrow) and commands to select an entire column (control shift down arrow) don't work as intended. Instead, I get something like (selected 1 through 1) which isn't right.
And yes, none of these are a problem with UIA turned off.

And a few issues with excel and braille displays (and yes speech is perfectly fine here):
- When I enter browse mode and navigate between cells, nothing on the braille display changes but I hear all the contents read out to me in speech. This is not at all an issue in focus mode (and yes I did report this on NVDA issue tracker under the name mrsviolafangirl).
- When using the newer version of Excel (and yes this happens no matter if UIA is enabled or not), when I type into a cell with  a braille display connected, the contents of what I'm entering is not showing up on the braille display (but it is spoken just fine in speech) and I have to press escape or enter to read what I typed on the braille display. This is a non issue in my old MS Excel 2007.
And yes, I'm well aware that the number of people who use braille displays is quite limited so I totally understand if braille display issues are hard to reproduce.

Okay sorry for commenting on excel issues on this thread, but if there's some little quirks using NVDA with MS office that can use some fixes, it's worth mentioning lol.



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: Emoji saying 12 in outlook not saying the name

Sylvie Duchateau
 

Hello Gene,
I also have the problem.
I just unchecked the checkbox in the speech parameters and pressing ☹ an emoji does not change anything.
NVDA says 1 in Outlook.
Best
Sylvie


Re: NVDA Responsiveness in Versions of Microsoft Office

Jujube
 

I have a feeling that UIA support is still kind of janky at best and is still under development, and yes, typing is much snappier in word with UIA turned on, and this computer has rather limited system resources btw. I know this isn't quite on topic, but I'll also mention a few things I noticed in Excel with UIA support turned on, and btw I have both office 16/365 (or something like that) which I got from my college for viewing narrated powerpoints and office 2007 (I know, I know, it's so old but that's what my family has). I found the following, particularly with the newer office version (and sorry I know this is Excel):
- Pressing NVDA+Space does not switch between browse an focus modes.
- Pressing NVDA control C and NVDA control R does not allow you to set automatic row and column header reading.
- Commands to select an entire row (shift + down arrow) and commands to select an entire column (control shift down arrow) don't work as intended. Instead, I get something like (selected 1 through 1) which isn't right.
And yes, none of these are a problem with UIA turned off.

And a few issues with excel and braille displays (and yes speech is perfectly fine here):
- When I enter browse mode and navigate between cells, nothing on the braille display changes but I hear all the contents read out to me in speech. This is not at all an issue in focus mode (and yes I did report this on NVDA issue tracker under the name mrsviolafangirl).
- When using the newer version of Excel (and yes this happens no matter if UIA is enabled or not), when I type into a cell with  a braille display connected, the contents of what I'm entering is not showing up on the braille display (but it is spoken just fine in speech) and I have to press escape or enter to read what I typed on the braille display. This is a non issue in my old MS Excel 2007.
And yes, I'm well aware that the number of people who use braille displays is quite limited so I totally understand if braille display issues are hard to reproduce.

Okay sorry for commenting on excel issues on this thread, but if there's some little quirks using NVDA with MS office that can use some fixes, it's worth mentioning lol.


locked Re: Messages Being Marked As Spam - What You Can Do #adminnotice

Jackie
 

I use the GMail interface, and I don't recall *ever* having a
groups.io message in my spam folder. I wonder what would cause that,
as groups.io has all its dns records in place & its reputation is
beyond stellar.

On 9/27/21, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 10:07 PM, Gene wrote:


My guess is that you aren’t doing anything that affects GMail when you do
this in the client.  Mhy guess is that your program is running a spam
filter and you are telling the program itself not to place the message in
the program’s spam folder.
-
Gene,

It depends on the e-mail client and how it interacts with Gmail (or any
server, really).  Some send the request to the server, and the moving
happens on the server side and gets synchronized back to the client, while
others do it locally having zero impact on the server side.

When it comes to Gmail, because of the above, I tend to use the webmail
interface when it comes to filtering as I know that whatever is set up on
Gmail's server will carry over to any email client that connects to it,
while the reverse is not necessarily true.

I can't explain what's going on with Louise, unless her email client of
choice has its own spam filter (much like Thunderbird's junk filter) that's
post-processing everything that comes in.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043

Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and
conscientious stupidity.

~Martin Luther King, Jr.





--
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locked Re: Messages Being Marked As Spam - What You Can Do #adminnotice

 

On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 10:07 PM, Gene wrote:
My guess is that you aren’t doing anything that affects GMail when you do this in the client.  Mhy guess is that your program is running a spam filter and you are telling the program itself not to place the message in the program’s spam folder. 
-
Gene,

It depends on the e-mail client and how it interacts with Gmail (or any server, really).  Some send the request to the server, and the moving happens on the server side and gets synchronized back to the client, while others do it locally having zero impact on the server side.

When it comes to Gmail, because of the above, I tend to use the webmail interface when it comes to filtering as I know that whatever is set up on Gmail's server will carry over to any email client that connects to it, while the reverse is not necessarily true.

I can't explain what's going on with Louise, unless her email client of choice has its own spam filter (much like Thunderbird's junk filter) that's post-processing everything that comes in.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

         ~Martin Luther King, Jr.

 


Re: NVDA Responsiveness in Versions of Microsoft Office

Fawaz Abdul rahman
 

< Turning on experimental UIA support improves responsiveness but
< introduces various other bugs.
What are the other bugs it introduces? Just to be alert since I don't remember facing any, but I haven't played with Word much lately.
thanks.


On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 3:20 AM Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
I found a couple of articles on steps to improve responsiveness in Word:



Before things like reinstalling Word, I'd be inclined to look at things like what add-ins you are using, and disabling things like "live preview" etc.

Of course, if you can identify specific things which cause Word to slow down specifically with NVDA, then we'd be keen to investigate.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 6:18 AM Bhavya shah <bhavya.shah125@...> wrote:
Dear all,

I currently have Word for Microsoft 365 installed on my Windows 10
powered laptop. Since several NVDA versions, I have generally not been
satisfied with NVDA’s responsiveness in this version of Word, whether
it be in navigation through large documents on editing text in small
ones. Turning on experimental UIA support improves responsiveness but
introduces various other bugs. As such, I am considering switching to
another version of Microsoft Office. Which one would you say, say 2013
or 2019, is NVDA snappiest in?

I would appreciate any assistance and thoughts in this regard.

Best Regards,
Bhavya Shah
Stanford University | Class of 2024
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bhavyashah125/







--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

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