Date   

Re: Here we go again!

 

Hi Carlos,

Do not be afraid - add-ons community is aware of your concerns and authors are working on updating their add-ons.

So here is what's going on: remember back in July I explained that a major change is being planned by NV Access and contributors that will require add-ons to change? That just happened, except NV Access put preparations in place. Any old code that was scheduled to be removed in NVDA 2022.1 (alpha phase at the moment) were marked for deprecation and will not be made available to add-ons and to the rest of NVDA source code if the year specified in the NVDA version tag is "2022". For example, NVDA 2021.3 will make older control types attributes available for add-ons (import is possible); with version now set to 2022 in alpha builds, the old code is no longer imported. This breaks add-ons that solely relied on older code simply because they are "gone" - that's why back in September I did say that version 21.10 of my add-ons will require NVDA 2021.2 or later precisely because of what you just saw in recent alpha builds.

A few hours ago there was a thread on add-ons list about maintaining compatibility with NVDA 2021.x, and at least two solutions were proposed which requires editing add-on source code (manifest will not work here once 2022.1 beta 1 is released). NV Access put in the deprecation mechanism in NVDA 2021.2, which was them saying, "all right add-on authors, you are warned about deprecation and removal, and as soon as 2022.1 development cycle begins, deprecated code will be gone". I have advised add-ons community to prepare their add-ons accordingly so that by the time 2022.1 beta 1 ships, all that is left is updating manifests and compatibility statements.

P.S. I can assure the NVDA community that all my add-ons (including ones that will be leaving my nest next year) are compatible with NVDA 2022.1 code and assumptions; I'm willing to release the final version of most of my add-ons around the time NVDA 2022.1 beta 1 is released provided that I get a chance to do so in the midst of spring semester schoolwork.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: Different focus from say all and arrowing through

Gene
 

The command you are talking about does exactly the opposite.  It means that the review position will change as the cursor changes in a word processor document where there is a cursor or in a list and perhaps elsewhere.  It doesn’t cause the system focus to change when you use screen review.  That’s one of the points of screen review and object navigation.  You can review things and keep your position unchanged where you are working as your review position changes.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----

Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 4:54 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Different focus from say all and arrowing through
 
Are you using browse mode or working directly in the program?  That may be what is causing the problem.  If you are using browse mode in a word processor, try reading when not in browse mode and see if tracking is correct. 

If my suggestion doesn’t solve the probloem, I have another one but I’ll wait to see what you say about this one.
 
Gene
-----Origihnal Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 3:49 PM
Subject: [nvda] Different focus from say all and arrowing through
 
While proofreading a long document using say-all, I'd find a place for editing, and hit control to stop speech, but then when I'd arrow through the document, I'd be in a different place.  I have focus follows caret set in review, so I figured the focus would, well, follow the system caret.  I thought the system caret would travel with the say'all cursor.
I'm a little rusty on NVDA concepts, since for a long time, I did most of my work on a Chromebook, but now I'm using my win 10 machine a lot more again, and MS Office.
 
Christopher Bartlett
 
 
--
Christopher Bartlett


Re: what next

 

Also, anyone considering the HP BIOS Configuration Utility should take a look at its User Guide to determine if they even want to "go there."
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 


Re: what next

 

On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 02:45 PM, Mohamed wrote:
HP actually has a BIOS configuration utility that can be used to edit BIOS settings from within Windows. https://ftp.ext.hp.com/pub/caps-softpaq/cmit/HP_BCU.html. this is a command line app that allows you to configure BIOS settings by editing a text file.
-
And unless you happen to know exactly what you're doing, I would never recommend that an end user go this route unless they are already intimately familiar with updating UEFI/BIOS, and very few are.

You can very easily brick a machine by very small changes in just the wrong spots in BIOS settings.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 


Re: Here we go again!

 

On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 05:40 PM, Governor staten wrote:
You know that this is alpha software.
-
Amen!  Anyone who elects to use alpha software should, routinely, expect all sorts of issues, including lack of backward compatibility.

It is completely, utterly unrealistic to expect alpha software, which is well in advance of the production version, to necessarily have backward compatibility with add-ons compatible with the current production version.

Alpha software is "bleeding edge" and not just for folks to "get a quick peek at what may be coming."  It's also expected to be issue-filled, far more so than beta software.  And even beta and release candidate software can occasionally have issues pop up as the testing periods progress.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 


Re: Different focus from say all and arrowing through

Gene
 

Are you using browse mode or working directly in the program?  That may be what is causing the problem.  If you are using browse mode in a word processor, try reading when not in browse mode and see if tracking is correct. 

If my suggestion doesn’t solve the probloem, I have another one but I’ll wait to see what you say about this one.
 
Gene
-----Origihnal Message-----

Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 3:49 PM
Subject: [nvda] Different focus from say all and arrowing through
 
While proofreading a long document using say-all, I'd find a place for editing, and hit control to stop speech, but then when I'd arrow through the document, I'd be in a different place.  I have focus follows caret set in review, so I figured the focus would, well, follow the system caret.  I thought the system caret would travel with the say'all cursor.
I'm a little rusty on NVDA concepts, since for a long time, I did most of my work on a Chromebook, but now I'm using my win 10 machine a lot more again, and MS Office.
 
Christopher Bartlett
 
 
--
Christopher Bartlett


Re: Here we go again!

 

Well the same drama hit audiogames forum.

No one will be leaving nvda, I mean brousers get updates, windows gets updates to get in line with things.

Python is a versatile language and still good for what it is.

But yeah something does need to be handled where older addons could just work unless they really need updating.



On 21/10/2021 10:44 am, Jujube wrote:
I 100% agree. There is no reason to get paranoid this quickly, 2022.1 is still months away and I'm sure addons will be compatible by the time 2022.1 is released. I also commend the developers for doing the absolute best they can. 

On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 2:40 PM Governor staten <govsta@...> wrote:

Such is life with software, especially that of the alpha kind. In order to move forward, things are changed. This, unfortunately, breaks backwards compatibility.


I will commend the devs herein. They quickly resolve these issues. You know that this is alpha software. They let you know that things can, and do, break.








On 10/20/2021 5:23 PM, Carlos wrote:
Today I downloaded the alpha version of nvda 2022.1. And, once again add-ons will need to be updated to work with nvda 2022.1.

Someone really needs to come up with some kind of add-ons patch that will make "All!" add-ons work with current/future versions of nvda! Otherwise, the use of add-ons will become very impractical!

I wonder if at some point breaking add-ons compatibility will have an effect on the usability of nvda as a usable screen reader?

NVDA is taking a very big risk in annoying users by constantly breaking add-ons compatibility! At some point nvda users will grow tired of all this nonsense. And, will just walk away from nvda. And, those who depend on nvda for their daily use will be without a free open source screen reader!

Maybe its time for nvda to be taken over by developers that will know how to better handle upgrading nvda while keeping add-ons compatible for all users!

And, maybe its time to move away from python as it is the cause of all these add-ons breaking their compatibility?








Re: Here we go again!

Jujube
 

I 100% agree. There is no reason to get paranoid this quickly, 2022.1 is still months away and I'm sure addons will be compatible by the time 2022.1 is released. I also commend the developers for doing the absolute best they can. 


On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 2:40 PM Governor staten <govsta@...> wrote:

Such is life with software, especially that of the alpha kind. In order to move forward, things are changed. This, unfortunately, breaks backwards compatibility.


I will commend the devs herein. They quickly resolve these issues. You know that this is alpha software. They let you know that things can, and do, break.








On 10/20/2021 5:23 PM, Carlos wrote:
Today I downloaded the alpha version of nvda 2022.1. And, once again add-ons will need to be updated to work with nvda 2022.1.

Someone really needs to come up with some kind of add-ons patch that will make "All!" add-ons work with current/future versions of nvda! Otherwise, the use of add-ons will become very impractical!

I wonder if at some point breaking add-ons compatibility will have an effect on the usability of nvda as a usable screen reader?

NVDA is taking a very big risk in annoying users by constantly breaking add-ons compatibility! At some point nvda users will grow tired of all this nonsense. And, will just walk away from nvda. And, those who depend on nvda for their daily use will be without a free open source screen reader!

Maybe its time for nvda to be taken over by developers that will know how to better handle upgrading nvda while keeping add-ons compatible for all users!

And, maybe its time to move away from python as it is the cause of all these add-ons breaking their compatibility?








Re: Here we go again!

 

Such is life with software, especially that of the alpha kind. In order to move forward, things are changed. This, unfortunately, breaks backwards compatibility.


I will commend the devs herein. They quickly resolve these issues. You know that this is alpha software. They let you know that things can, and do, break.








On 10/20/2021 5:23 PM, Carlos wrote:
Today I downloaded the alpha version of nvda 2022.1. And, once again add-ons will need to be updated to work with nvda 2022.1.

Someone really needs to come up with some kind of add-ons patch that will make "All!" add-ons work with current/future versions of nvda! Otherwise, the use of add-ons will become very impractical!

I wonder if at some point breaking add-ons compatibility will have an effect on the usability of nvda as a usable screen reader?

NVDA is taking a very big risk in annoying users by constantly breaking add-ons compatibility! At some point nvda users will grow tired of all this nonsense. And, will just walk away from nvda. And, those who depend on nvda for their daily use will be without a free open source screen reader!

Maybe its time for nvda to be taken over by developers that will know how to better handle upgrading nvda while keeping add-ons compatible for all users!

And, maybe its time to move away from python as it is the cause of all these add-ons breaking their compatibility?








Re: Here we go again!

Jujube
 

Hi Carlos, as far as I know they are striving to only break addons once a year at the .1 release. I suggest reading this thread as Joseph Lee's explanations in particular will hopefully give you a better handle on the developer's perspective.

NVDA addons are similar to browser extensions. You may not know this, but many browser extensions have died out due to lack of updates and NVDA addons are no different.

Although changing NVDA to another progrramming language is theoretically possible, I strongly susptect that such a move would require a massive rewrite of NVDA's code.

I hope something decent is worked out soon, but in the meantime, I just wanted to explain why this is happening.

On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 2:23 PM Carlos <gmjc341961@...> wrote:
Today I downloaded the alpha version of nvda 2022.1. And, once again
add-ons will need to be updated to work with nvda 2022.1.

Someone really needs to come up with some kind of add-ons patch that
will make "All!" add-ons work with current/future versions of nvda!
Otherwise, the use of add-ons will become very impractical!

I wonder if at some point breaking add-ons compatibility will have an
effect on the usability of nvda as a usable screen reader?

NVDA is taking a very big risk in annoying users by constantly breaking
add-ons compatibility! At some point nvda users will grow tired of all
this nonsense. And, will just walk away from nvda. And, those who depend
on nvda for their daily use will be without a free open source screen
reader!

Maybe its time for nvda to be taken over by developers that will know
how to better handle upgrading nvda while keeping add-ons compatible for
all users!

And, maybe its time to move away from python as it is the cause of all
these add-ons breaking their compatibility?








Here we go again!

Carlos
 

Today I downloaded the alpha version of nvda 2022.1. And, once again add-ons will need to be updated to work with nvda 2022.1.

Someone really needs to come up with some kind of add-ons patch that will make "All!" add-ons work with current/future versions of nvda! Otherwise, the use of add-ons will become very impractical!

I wonder if at some point breaking add-ons compatibility will have an effect on the usability of nvda as a usable screen reader?

NVDA is taking a very big risk in annoying users by constantly breaking add-ons compatibility! At some point nvda users will grow tired of all this nonsense. And, will just walk away from nvda. And, those who depend on nvda for their daily use will be without a free open source screen reader!

Maybe its time for nvda to be taken over by developers that will know how to better handle upgrading nvda while keeping add-ons compatible for all users!

And, maybe its time to move away from python as it is the cause of all these add-ons breaking their compatibility?


Re: Different focus from say all and arrowing through

mike mcglashon
 

Block quote:
What are you pressing to start say all?
There are two of them. One starts from the system cursor, the other one starts from the review cursor. The one that starts from the review cursor doesn't move the system cursor.
End quote:

So, which keystroke invokes which "say all mode"?


Please advise as you like.

Mike M.

Mike mcglashon
Email: Michael.mcglashon@comcast.net
Ph: 618 783 9331

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tyler Spivey via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 4:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Different focus from say all and arrowing through

What are you pressing to start say all?
There are two of them. One starts from the system cursor, the other one starts from the review cursor. The one that starts from the review cursor doesn't move the system cursor.

On 10/20/2021 1:49 PM, Christopher Bartlett wrote:
While proofreading a long document using say-all, I'd find a place for
editing, and hit control to stop speech, but then when I'd arrow
through the document, I'd be in a different place. I have focus
follows caret set in review, so I figured the focus would, well,
follow the system caret. I thought the system caret would travel with the say'all cursor.
I'm a little rusty on NVDA concepts, since for a long time, I did most
of my work on a Chromebook, but now I'm using my win 10 machine a lot
more again, and MS Office.

Christopher Bartlett


--
Christopher Bartlett


Re: what next

dennis huckle <denniswhuckle@...>
 

Sorry folks,

Didn’t sign my name on last post.

Kind regards,

Dennis huckle.

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris via groups.io
Sent: 20 October 2021 21:23
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] what next

 

Tech support are correct, and narrator wont work within the bios/uefi

So you will need sighted help to change the setting unfortunately

 

 

 

From: ken lawrence via groups.io
Sent: 20 October 2021 18:40
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] what next

 

Hi NVDA apparently BIOS is set this way in default the HP tech support says that BIOS is outside windows and therefore screen reader won’t work.  Will narrator work this way and if not can a blind user change this setting and regain use of function keys that way?  I’ve deleted more of the HP stuff on this machine and can’tcompletely get rid of inaccessible mcafee antivirus. Boy why do blind people have to fight these battles in 2021? 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

 


Re: what next

dennis huckle <denniswhuckle@...>
 

Hello all,

I can definitely confirm that to do anything in the bios you, like me will need sighted assistance.

Of course its really important that you know exactly what you want to achieve so as to assist yoin making the correct dicisions within bios.

ur sighted assistant

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris via groups.io
Sent: 20 October 2021 21:23
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] what next

 

Tech support are correct, and narrator wont work within the bios/uefi

So you will need sighted help to change the setting unfortunately

 

 

 

From: ken lawrence via groups.io
Sent: 20 October 2021 18:40
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] what next

 

Hi NVDA apparently BIOS is set this way in default the HP tech support says that BIOS is outside windows and therefore screen reader won’t work.  Will narrator work this way and if not can a blind user change this setting and regain use of function keys that way?  I’ve deleted more of the HP stuff on this machine and can’tcompletely get rid of inaccessible mcafee antivirus. Boy why do blind people have to fight these battles in 2021? 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

 


Re: Different focus from say all and arrowing through

Tyler Spivey
 

What are you pressing to start say all?
There are two of them. One starts from the system cursor, the other one starts from the review cursor. The one that starts from the review cursor doesn't move the system cursor.

On 10/20/2021 1:49 PM, Christopher Bartlett wrote:
While proofreading a long document using say-all, I'd find a place for editing, and hit control to stop speech, but then when I'd arrow through the document, I'd be in a different place.  I have focus follows caret set in review, so I figured the focus would, well, follow the system caret.  I thought the system caret would travel with the say'all cursor.
I'm a little rusty on NVDA concepts, since for a long time, I did most of my work on a Chromebook, but now I'm using my win 10 machine a lot more again, and MS Office.
Christopher Bartlett
--
Christopher Bartlett


Different focus from say all and arrowing through

Christopher Bartlett
 

While proofreading a long document using say-all, I'd find a place for editing, and hit control to stop speech, but then when I'd arrow through the document, I'd be in a different place.  I have focus follows caret set in review, so I figured the focus would, well, follow the system caret.  I thought the system caret would travel with the say'all cursor.
I'm a little rusty on NVDA concepts, since for a long time, I did most of my work on a Chromebook, but now I'm using my win 10 machine a lot more again, and MS Office.

Christopher Bartlett


--
Christopher Bartlett


Re: what next

Chris
 

Tech support are correct, and narrator wont work within the bios/uefi

So you will need sighted help to change the setting unfortunately

 

 

 

From: ken lawrence via groups.io
Sent: 20 October 2021 18:40
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] what next

 

Hi NVDA apparently BIOS is set this way in default the HP tech support says that BIOS is outside windows and therefore screen reader won’t work.  Will narrator work this way and if not can a blind user change this setting and regain use of function keys that way?  I’ve deleted more of the HP stuff on this machine and can’tcompletely get rid of inaccessible mcafee antivirus. Boy why do blind people have to fight these battles in 2021? 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

 


Re: what next

Chris Mullins
 

Hi Ken

You can also download a mcafee removal tool from the mcafee web site.  I do not know how accessible it is but it should get rid of the remaining components.

 

Cheers

Chris

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Mohamed
Sent: 20 October 2021 19:45
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] what next

 

HP actually has a BIOS configuration utility that can be used to edit BIOS settings from within Windows. https://ftp.ext.hp.com/pub/caps-softpaq/cmit/HP_BCU.html. this is a command line app that allows you to configure BIOS settings by editing a text file. You'll need to generate a text file of your current BIOS settings, and disable the setting called Action Key Mode by removing the asterisk from enabled and moving it to disable.

On 10/20/2021 1:40 PM, ken lawrence via groups.io wrote:

Hi NVDA apparently BIOS is set this way in default the HP tech support says that BIOS is outside windows and therefore screen reader won’t work.  Will narrator work this way and if not can a blind user change this setting and regain use of function keys that way?  I’ve deleted more of the HP stuff on this machine and can’tcompletely get rid of inaccessible mcafee antivirus. Boy why do blind people have to fight these battles in 2021? 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

 


Re: Introductory questions about navigating in a browser.

Gene
 

When reading begins, press control to stop reading.  Then move line by line and you will hear each line and no more until you move to the next line.
 
There is a way to have the web page read but that won’t solve what you evidently want to do.  Evidently, you want to start reading at the beginning of content you want to read such as an article.  To do that, try moving using the letter n to skip blocks of links, or h, move by heading.  On some pages, one works better than the other. 
 
If you do want a page to read from the top, there is a setting you can change, discussed by another member.  There may be some pages where you want this at least at times. 
 
I don’t know how slow it is for you to type and I don’t know which you might prefer in situations like this:
Say you open a web page that is the home page of a newspaper.  You want to get to the link that says editorial.  If the page starts to read automatically, press control.
You can then open NVDA search, which is used on web pages and some other places, type edit and search.  This will save you from moving through a lot of links to find it.
Or you can open the links list and type the letter e until you find it.  I believe you press enter then to follow the link when in the links list. 
 
Or if, on this page, you haven’t gone to a lot of links to different sections of the paper, when the page opens and you have stopped automatic reading, if it occurs, type the letter v.  That moves you through links you have used before.  Then, when you get to the one you want, follow it as usual.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Joyce
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 10:36 AM
Subject: [nvda] Introductory questions about navigating in a browser.
 

Hi,

 

I’m new to using NVDA having little exposure to other text to speech programs before jumping in. I’ve use a program called the Grid which acts as a keyboard emulator to help me with my typing as I’m unable to physically access a standard keyboard. With my setup on NVDA, I have found a few elements which I’m struggling with and would appreciate a guide through. These are;  

1.   When reading out a lengthy email from Gmail opened in the EDGE browser, is it possible to control the read back rate – say line by line – so I can pick up on what is being typed. What are the key combination for this and the settings which would allow this?

2.   When I open a webpage in the Edge, is it possible for NVDA to start to read the page content automatically? At the moment, it announces the page opening and I have to start finding my way through Tabbing or down arrow key which seems to work some times and then not others.

3.   For above, is there one reading mode which is preferred over the other?

 

I’m sure I’ve more to come on top of these but I’d welcome a start!

 

Kindest regards,

Alan

 

Windows 10, Ver 1909

 

 

Enable Ireland Disability Services Ltd. Registered Office Unit 32F, Rosemount Park Drive, Rosemount Business Park, Ballycoolin Road, Dublin 11 Registered in Dublin No.13909 Charity No.20006617 Patron Michael D. Higgins, President of Ireland Chairman Stephen Haughey Chief Executive John O'Sullivan Secretary Noreen Dempsey.

 

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Re: what next

Mohamed
 

HP actually has a BIOS configuration utility that can be used to edit BIOS settings from within Windows. https://ftp.ext.hp.com/pub/caps-softpaq/cmit/HP_BCU.html. this is a command line app that allows you to configure BIOS settings by editing a text file. You'll need to generate a text file of your current BIOS settings, and disable the setting called Action Key Mode by removing the asterisk from enabled and moving it to disable.

On 10/20/2021 1:40 PM, ken lawrence via groups.io wrote:

Hi NVDA apparently BIOS is set this way in default the HP tech support says that BIOS is outside windows and therefore screen reader won’t work.  Will narrator work this way and if not can a blind user change this setting and regain use of function keys that way?  I’ve deleted more of the HP stuff on this machine and can’tcompletely get rid of inaccessible mcafee antivirus. Boy why do blind people have to fight these battles in 2021? 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

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