Date   

Re: control plus windows plus either left or right arrows

Gene
 

Control windows left and right arrow does nothing in a document.  It is control left and right arrow that moves by word. 
 
It appears to me, that in general,     input help announces the function of a command when it is an NVDA specific command such as NVDA key t and doesn’t announce the purpose otherwise.  I found exceptions, being clipboard commands such as control c.  Down arrow is just announced as down arrow because it is nott an NVDA specific command. 
 
Others with more technical knowledge may wish to discuss if the behavior may be changed and how much work would be involved.  Another question is whether the work involved would justify the benefit. 
 
With the exception of clipboard commands, it appears that only NVDA specific commands can be changed in the gestures settings.  There are ways to change other commands but they are not done by NVDA.
 
The commands you are asking about are Windows commands and would need to be changed differently. 
 
When working in input gesture settings, you can filter by what something does such as current line, but you can’t search for a command such as NVDA t.
 
You don’t have to arrow through all the commands.  The gestures are organized in a tree view.  As you down arrow, you will hear dcategories.  When you get to a category you want to look at, right arrow on the name of the category to open it.  When finnished, when in the category or on the name, left arrow until it is closed or just go on looking down the rest of the categories and leave that one opened if you wish.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 9:16 AM
Subject: [nvda] control plus windows plus either left or right arrows
 

Hi guys:

 

I have a question regarding the use of control+windows+left and right arrows;

It looks like when using these keystrokes,

Nvda moves by word or something;

 

I also use these keys to switch between desktops;

When I go into nvda+1 help mode and hit those keys,

It says the keys but not their nvda function;

 

Is there a way in nvda’s gestures listing of keys for me to see what nvda is doing with those keys, and perhaps either change the keystrokes or turn them off altogether without having to arrow through all the gestures?

 

Currently, I have to hit nvda+f2 to bypass the next key each time I hit control+windows+left or right arrows?

 

Please advise as you like.

 

Mike M.

 

Mike mcglashon

Email: Michael.mcglashon@...

Ph: 618 783 9331

 


Re: control plus windows plus either left or right arrows

John Isige
 

Windows 11 might use them for something, but it doesn't move by word. I get silence but I was also out of the Thunderbird message window, or at least, NVDA didn't think it was in focus. I'd guess either an addon, or not all of the keys are being held down. It's really easy to do with triple keys like that. I tend to try to use one finger between them, e.g. alt-win, and hit them both at the same time, and sometimes, you just don't have a good enough hold on them.


On 11/15/2021 9:43 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Mike,

What NVDA Add-Ons are you using?  I just did a quick review of the Input Gestures dialog, and the NVDA Quick Commands, and neither indicates that CTRL + WinKey + arrow keys is assigned to anything by NVDA (unless I missed it, and that's possible).  This leads me to believe that this is likely a conflict caused by some add-on.

There are a finite number of keyboard shortcuts available, and triple-key-press ones are seldom used, even by Windows.  I suspect an add-on has snagged this and that's why you need to use pass-through (NVDA + F2) to get it to have its other default function in the application you're using.

It would help to know what application that is, and what the intended function of the WinKey + Alt + Left or Right Arrow key is in that application, too.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 


Re: control plus windows plus either left or right arrows

 

Mike,

Sorry that I somehow confabulated CTRL with WinKey in my prior response.  But the overarching principle still applies.

But now, in rechecking the NVDA Quick Commands Reference (NVDA + N, H, Q), the following section applies:

When within a table, the following key commands are also available:

Name Key Description
Move to previous column control+alt+leftArrow Moves the system caret to the previous column (staying in the same row)
Move to next column control+alt+rightArrow Moves the system caret to the next column (staying in the same row)
Move to previous row control+alt+upArrow Moves the system caret to the previous row (staying in the same column)
Move to next row control+alt+downArrow Moves the system caret to the next row (staying in the same column)

But these should active if and only if you are currently within a table, at least if the commands quick reference is accurate, and I'd have to believe it is.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 


Re: control plus windows plus either left or right arrows

 

Mike,

What NVDA Add-Ons are you using?  I just did a quick review of the Input Gestures dialog, and the NVDA Quick Commands, and neither indicates that CTRL + WinKey + arrow keys is assigned to anything by NVDA (unless I missed it, and that's possible).  This leads me to believe that this is likely a conflict caused by some add-on.

There are a finite number of keyboard shortcuts available, and triple-key-press ones are seldom used, even by Windows.  I suspect an add-on has snagged this and that's why you need to use pass-through (NVDA + F2) to get it to have its other default function in the application you're using.

It would help to know what application that is, and what the intended function of the WinKey + Alt + Left or Right Arrow key is in that application, too.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 


Re: Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key

Steve Nutt
 

But what makes anyone say it isn’t? Everyone’s experience is different.

 

I know loads of people who use the caps lock, both blind and not.

 

All the best


steve

 

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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 15 November 2021 15:17
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key

 

You are one person.  If you took three showers a day, that doesn’t mean it is common. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Steve Nutt

Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 2:37 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key

 

I disagree with your assertion that caps lock is not commonly used. I use it a lot.

 

All the best


Steve

 

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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: 12 November 2021 16:00
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key

 

On Fri, Nov 12, 2021 at 08:19 AM, Gene wrote:

It would be an execution nightmare.  First, how does Windows know what your intent is?

-
It wouldn't be Windows determining the intent, but NVDA.

Ignoring sticky keys, which is a separate function of its own, when the CAPS LOCK key is used as a modifier key I cannot think of a time when that would not involve what would easily be "timeable" as a long-press or require CAPS LOCK along with another key (as it is the modifier).  A very quick single press of CAPS LOCK meant to be used as CAPS LOCK is something NVDA could likely detect and pass through because it would be a very quick strike.

Personally, I don't think this is really necessary as CAPS LOCK is not, generally speaking, a commonly used key, unlike shift.  On the rare occasions where you really want CAPS LOCK and it's being used as the NVDA modifier key a quick double press does not seem too difficult to accomplish.
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The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 


Re: What Is The Proper Way To Display Icons On the System Tray In Windows 11 As Concerns NVDA

 

Believe it or not, what follows is not me trying to shut down this topic, but trying to be as helpful as I can and point you to what is likely to be a far more useful resource.

This topic is an example of where the screen reader is the least likely thing to be the root cause of the issue.  When Windows changes, and the UI change for Windows 11 is a significant change, access issues with Windows elements you used to have easy access to is likely to lie with Windows itself.  Sometimes the screen reader developers were made aware of potential sticking points well in advance of a given Windows release, and sometimes they weren't.  At times, this means they will be playing catch up along with the rest of us.

For any issues related to Windows functions, and heaven knows the quick launch bar, task bar, and notification area/system tray all are in that category, the group that always has the most active discussions about these has historically been the Windows Access for Screen Reader Users Group (formerly the Windows 10 for Screen Reader Users Group).   I would strongly suggest joining there, and joining in, when it comes to Windows 11 related sticking points as that's where the "critical mass" of Windows 11 users is most likely to be.  At the moment, even there, that's still a small minority of the overall membership.  Most are following the advice to avoid upgrading to Windows 11 until next spring, at earliest.  But some have purchased machines that came with Windows 11 and don't want to downgrade to Windows 10, and in that situation I can't say I blame them.

Windows Access for Screen Reader Users Group (Formerly: Windows 10 for Screen Reader Users Group)

Group Archive:  https://winaccess.groups.io/g/winaccess/topics

Subscribe: winaccess+subscribe@winaccess.groups.io

Post: winaccess@winaccess.groups.io

Unsubscribe: winaccess+unsubscribe@winaccess.groups.io

Group Owner: winaccess+owner@winaccess.groups.io

Help: winaccess+help@winaccess.groups.io

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The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 


Re: Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key

Gene
 

You are one person.  If you took three showers a day, that doesn’t mean it is common. 
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Nutt
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 2:37 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key
 

I disagree with your assertion that caps lock is not commonly used. I use it a lot.

 

All the best


Steve

 

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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: 12 November 2021 16:00
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key

 

On Fri, Nov 12, 2021 at 08:19 AM, Gene wrote:

It would be an execution nightmare.  First, how does Windows know what your intent is?

-
It wouldn't be Windows determining the intent, but NVDA.

Ignoring sticky keys, which is a separate function of its own, when the CAPS LOCK key is used as a modifier key I cannot think of a time when that would not involve what would easily be "timeable" as a long-press or require CAPS LOCK along with another key (as it is the modifier).  A very quick single press of CAPS LOCK meant to be used as CAPS LOCK is something NVDA could likely detect and pass through because it would be a very quick strike.

Personally, I don't think this is really necessary as CAPS LOCK is not, generally speaking, a commonly used key, unlike shift.  On the rare occasions where you really want CAPS LOCK and it's being used as the NVDA modifier key a quick double press does not seem too difficult to accomplish.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 


control plus windows plus either left or right arrows

mike mcglashon
 

Hi guys:

 

I have a question regarding the use of control+windows+left and right arrows;

It looks like when using these keystrokes,

Nvda moves by word or something;

 

I also use these keys to switch between desktops;

When I go into nvda+1 help mode and hit those keys,

It says the keys but not their nvda function;

 

Is there a way in nvda’s gestures listing of keys for me to see what nvda is doing with those keys, and perhaps either change the keystrokes or turn them off altogether without having to arrow through all the gestures?

 

Currently, I have to hit nvda+f2 to bypass the next key each time I hit control+windows+left or right arrows?

 

Please advise as you like.

 

Mike M.

 

Mike mcglashon

Email: Michael.mcglashon@...

Ph: 618 783 9331

 


Re: Unable to focus on zoom

Sim Kah Yong
 

Hi, can you try pressing Control + Alternate + Shift and see if that help you to focus back on Zoom.

On 10/11/2021 1:34 pm, Ali Colak wrote:
Hello,
Since last Friday, I have been having problems with zoom, where NVDA
is unable to focus on the zoom window. whether I open the aplication
itself or open a zoom meeting from a link. I thought it might be a
problem with the Beta version of NVDA, so I downgraded, but no luck.
The next option I can think of is reinstalling zoom, but before I do
that, anyone have any ideas?

Thanks




Re: Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key

Steve Nutt
 

I disagree with your assertion that caps lock is not commonly used. I use it a lot.

 

All the best


Steve

 

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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: 12 November 2021 16:00
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key

 

On Fri, Nov 12, 2021 at 08:19 AM, Gene wrote:

It would be an execution nightmare.  First, how does Windows know what your intent is?

-
It wouldn't be Windows determining the intent, but NVDA.

Ignoring sticky keys, which is a separate function of its own, when the CAPS LOCK key is used as a modifier key I cannot think of a time when that would not involve what would easily be "timeable" as a long-press or require CAPS LOCK along with another key (as it is the modifier).  A very quick single press of CAPS LOCK meant to be used as CAPS LOCK is something NVDA could likely detect and pass through because it would be a very quick strike.

Personally, I don't think this is really necessary as CAPS LOCK is not, generally speaking, a commonly used key, unlike shift.  On the rare occasions where you really want CAPS LOCK and it's being used as the NVDA modifier key a quick double press does not seem too difficult to accomplish.
--

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The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 


Re: Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key

Steve Nutt
 

Yes, that is not difficult at all.  Narrator does it already.

 

If you press it on its own, it becomes caps lock. If you press it with another key, any other key, it becomes a modifier. Simples really.

 

All the best


Steve

 

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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 12 November 2021 13:19
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key

 

It would be an execution nightmare.  First, how does Windows know what your intent is?  Would it be required that it be pressed simultaneouswly with another keey in order to function as an NVDA key?  I suspect a lot of people do not do so now some or much of the time.  And what about people with coordination problems who might find it difficult to do this?

 

Also, having a two key simultaneous press requirement violates the way modifier keys work.  The NVDA key is a modifier.  Control, shift, and alt do not require another key to be pressed simultaneously. You can press and hold the modifier and press another key wile doing so.  You can press them simultaneously but it is not required.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Steve Nutt

Sent: Friday, November 12, 2021 6:44 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key

 

Hi Chris,

 

I think what Rowan is saying is that if you just press the caps lock key without any other key, NVDA should pass it through. I agree with this.

 

All the best


Steve

 

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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris via groups.io
Sent: 12 November 2021 09:16
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key

 

And what about those of us who cannot use their right hand???

Or is your opinion tough shit to those of have only the use  of one hand

As long as you dont have to press  a key twice, sod everybody else

 

 

 

From: Rowen Cary
Sent: 12 November 2021 04:45
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key

 

Hi All,

I think we need to improve the caps lock key, Since the function of the NVDA key is to cooperate with other keys to trigger a certain function, pressing the caps lock key once has no meaning for NVDA. Can we return it to the operating system for processing? This way we don’t need to quickly press Caps Lock twice every time we switch between upper and lower case. Some screen reader is already doing this, and the user experience is very good. I think NVDA can also do this, or even better.

Thanks!

 


Re: What Is The Proper Way To Display Icons On the System Tray In Windows 11 As Concerns NVDA

Gene
 

If you can’t get to the system tray icon in a convenient way, you may be able to get to the volume control by typing sndvol in the start menu search. 
 
Also, you can make a short cut to the volume control on the desktop and assign a shortcut key.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 12:50 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] What Is The Proper Way To Display Icons On the System Tray In Windows 11 As Concerns NVDA
 
Hi Group,

Thanks to all who gave information about the icons on the system tray.
The Molsem advice works--but is a bit clumsy. I do in fact even see the
volume icon but I must go all the way one direction (left arrow) and
follow by all the way (right arrow) to get it to display.  Once it
shows, I can use the context key to access the various functions.

The volume icon and a few others do not show up when using the NVDA add
on (NVDA key + F11) keystroke.


On 11/14/2021 10:00 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
> Hi Group,
>
> Shortly after I upgraded to Windows 11, I have had an issue when
> trying to review items on the system tray.  I don't see all of them
> that should appear. somehow (and I don't think it was immediately
> after installation of Windows 11--but maybe a day or so later) all I
> see if 5 icons and when I get to the network icon, what seems to be
> happening is that for some reason I lose focus on the system tray and
> wind up on the taskbar.
>
> I must have accidentally changed something in some manner to
> hide/conceal icons on the taskbar. So what are the proper settings
> that will display all the icons I want to see on the system tray? In
> particular, I cannot access the volume icon on  the system tray.  
> This issue occurs both with the Windows command Windows key + B and
> with the add on for NVDA which uses the JAWS similar keystroke NVDA +
> F11.
>

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Re: What Is The Proper Way To Display Icons On the System Tray In Windows 11 As Concerns NVDA

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Group,

Thanks to all who gave information about the icons on the system tray. The Molsem advice works--but is a bit clumsy. I do in fact even see the volume icon but I must go all the way one direction (left arrow) and follow by all the way (right arrow) to get it to display.  Once it shows, I can use the context key to access the various functions.

The volume icon and a few others do not show up when using the NVDA add on (NVDA key + F11) keystroke.

On 11/14/2021 10:00 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Group,

Shortly after I upgraded to Windows 11, I have had an issue when trying to review items on the system tray.  I don't see all of them that should appear. somehow (and I don't think it was immediately after installation of Windows 11--but maybe a day or so later) all I see if 5 icons and when I get to the network icon, what seems to be happening is that for some reason I lose focus on the system tray and wind up on the taskbar.

I must have accidentally changed something in some manner to hide/conceal icons on the taskbar. So what are the proper settings that will display all the icons I want to see on the system tray? In particular, I cannot access the volume icon on  the system tray.   This issue occurs both with the Windows command Windows key + B and with the add on for NVDA which uses the JAWS similar keystroke NVDA + F11.
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Re: About inserting two features into NVDA that cannot yet be used natively

 

I also agree with this.

With a lot I do a lot less work has been taken over by automation.

And while I accept users need to keep things updated, nvda is not linux.

Users shouldn't have to chace down devs and muck about if all they are doing is using the software.

Now I will do this to be active but suppose you don't wana do that.

Suppose you just want to use the system.

I have several users that do stuff and it works.

If it doesn't after floundering round trying to fix their system often with disasterous results they bring whats left to me to fix.

When I fix it, I ask them what their original issue was and what they did to fix it.

Usually after researching and going on tangents they end up with a busted system.

I get it, reformat it and it works again.

The issue is usually simple and easy to fix or in fact I may know where to go or get something that works but that is because I am a geek.

I have mucked about with, broken, totally screwed up and reformatted my way in and out of trouble so many times I can more or less pick up what the intent usually is.

But a standard user just wants their stuff to run.

They don't care you need a password for it or an extra obscure key or another program module they want to use their software with minimal fuss and expect that it does.

I hhave often spent time dumbing down things so the user can use whatever only to find I have to change things on the fly.

A general non geek, that isn't like 99% of us on here or at least a large portion of us I am sure more more inteligent then myself I suspect.

Point is standard users want it to work and thats it.

I am not sying don't inovate but maybe where we can we need to have it so users can use their stuff and keep the breakage rate down.

I realise that may mean having extra non secure stuff about but eventually things will be updated most devs or others will be found and things will be updated and it will work.

On that note I wander if there is an more automated way to add stable versions of addons tothe update database on a more automated level.

And maybe a separate one for betas or something.

Its just a manual entry needs to be done once something is stable surely there is an easier way.



On 15/11/2021 4:45 pm, Michael Micallef at FITA wrote:

I agree 100%

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mary Otten via groups.io
Sent: Monday, 15 November 2021 03:47
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About inserting two features into NVDA that cannot yet be used natively

 

CAUTION: This email originated from OUTSIDE the Government Email Infrastructure. DO NOT CLICK LINKS or OPEN attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.

 

Having no computer science background, I can't comment on this from that point of view. But I will say that as an end user who wants to get things done, does not want to be more involved with the computer than I am with actual productivity, I would like it if basic functionality that is used by most people could be part of the program, rather than having to depend on add-ons. Its a hastle. For those who do this full time, good for you. But for the rest of us who just want to get tasks done, forget it.

 

Mary

 

On 11/14/2021 6:44 PM, Gene wrote:

I think this is a non issue.  For one thing, noone is talking about ;adding twenty, thirty, or more functions.  Second, processors are so fast now that I don’t think adding a lot of functions would make any difference.  Also, I doubt that just adding functions would make a difference even if processors were much slower because I doubt that a lot of the functions would do anything except under very specific conditions, thus not taking any significant amount of computer power.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2021 8:18 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] About inserting two features into NVDA that cannot yet be used natively

 

What proof is there that the more add ons that are running with nvda, the more resources it takes? Would this not be the case the more that is in core? I personally don't want nvda to become bloated, therefore I use the add ons to Taylor my experience to what I need it to be.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Marcos Antonio Schllosser
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2021 1:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] About inserting two features into NVDA that cannot yet be used natively

Greetings!

I would like to mention the insertion of two features into NVDA that I use a lot but I have had a lot of problems because these Add-ons need to be constantly updated due to Python innovations.

1. Added the possibility for NVDA to pronounce copy, paste, cut and select when manipulating texts or applications. There are 2 Add-ons that were developed for this but it would be very interesting if these functions were available natively in NVDA so we don't need to install this Add-on.

2. Inserting one more option in Dictionary preferences. It would be the option of creating Dictionaries for specific applications. There is already an Add-on for this as well but it would be very interesting if this functionality were built in natively in NVDA.

Because the less Add-ons we install the better the performance of NVDA.
And because I use it a lot, I can't give up these two features that I've been using for several years.

I appreciate if you can insert more of these two possibilities natively in NVDA.











Re: About inserting two features into NVDA that cannot yet be used natively

 

You know you are correct but there are discussions from time to time on audiogames forum.

There are not many but a few that are not happy with the ever changing and breaking of the addon landscape.

I can see both sides and while I rarely speak out especially for the whiny entitled blind gits that frequent that place I do have to admit I do agree in part with the core of what they are saying.

While understanding we need to keep secure and updated, of late a lot of addons have been constantly broken and needing to be constantly updated.

It can be hard to track down all the devs and some of them may no longer be actually alive or in service.

So that means a feature dies with the next update.

It never used to be like this under python 2 so now there are users that complain.

Why I won't be like those louts its not because I disagree with what they are saying in the slightest, I know why, but  I do wander about the breakage rate on nvda.

And how often things need to break.

And how often those should effect the user.

Windows does this and at least 50% of the time its ok.

Of course when it breaks you do notice.

On 15/11/2021 3:18 pm, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
What proof is there that the more add ons that are running with nvda, the more resources it takes? Would this not be the case the more that is in core? I personally don't want nvda to become bloated, therefore I use the add ons to Taylor my experience to what I need it to be.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Marcos Antonio Schllosser
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2021 1:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] About inserting two features into NVDA that cannot yet be used natively

Greetings!

I would like to mention the insertion of two features into NVDA that I use a lot but I have had a lot of problems because these Add-ons need to be constantly updated due to Python innovations.

1. Added the possibility for NVDA to pronounce copy, paste, cut and select when manipulating texts or applications. There are 2 Add-ons that were developed for this but it would be very interesting if these functions were available natively in NVDA so we don't need to install this Add-on.

2. Inserting one more option in Dictionary preferences. It would be the option of creating Dictionaries for specific applications. There is already an Add-on for this as well but it would be very interesting if this functionality were built in natively in NVDA.

Because the less Add-ons we install the better the performance of NVDA.
And because I use it a lot, I can't give up these two features that I've been using for several years.

I appreciate if you can insert more of these two possibilities natively in NVDA.











.


Re: what is NVDA RC for

Quentin Christensen
 

Also, if a critical bug were to be found in an RC version, it is that little bit easier in our processes, to address it, and release another RC build, than it is if the bug is found after the final, stable version is out.  It is also usually quicker.  The RC builds will prompt to update to the final stable build when it comes out so the process is aimed at being as smooth as possible.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Sun, Nov 14, 2021 at 8:38 AM Eduardo Fermiano Luccas <25102008luccas@...> wrote:
thank you very much for taking this question away

Em sáb., 13 de nov. de 2021 às 18:20, Gene <gsasner@...> escreveu:
RC stands for release candidate.  It will be released as it is as a stable production version unless bugs are found that need correction.  RC releases are the releases before the production release and are the latest in the development cycle before production releases.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2021 2:53 PM
Subject: [nvda] what is NVDA RC for
 
I know alpha has big bugs, and should never be installed main NVDA...beta has fewer bugs, and can be tested as main NVDA.but what about RC? it seems to me a lot with a stable version, so much so that NV access itself tells everyone to install, so my question remains... what is NVDA RC for?



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: About inserting two features into NVDA that cannot yet be used natively

 

Hmph.
Wow, what was it like.
Thats actually a hard question.
So I will answer it with another question.
Have you ever accessed a library, used a symbian device, or an
accessible kiosk environment.
Have you used something like dolphin guide or the old now defunked
klango.net client?
There are no actual demos of the keynote synth itself.
But the keynote gold was a slightly more robotic 8bit version of what
espeak is now but in us at least for me.
If you use eloquence thats a little more like it almost but not quite.

So you had 2 bits of software.
1. mastertouch.
This was like nvda for dos in basic terms.
You could run just about every dos program you would like.
Games and graphical stuff excluded.
So you then had the shell, think of dos shell or the windows 3.11
shell with a few limits.
You could edit files in text, doodle with settings, transfer from
keynote to standard text format, view files, etc.
Later on there was a move for a little into windows ce which I never
saw and an upgraded dos version of the keysoft system but that never
got much traction.
Now, if you can get an hold of a keynote gold and can go to
www.batsupport.com/unsupported/dosbox I think I have a file on there
called oldgames.7z.
In there are all the old dos and keysoft disks I pulled off of my
dieing floppies with an old drive.
Those disks are trashed now.
The keynote I still have but its totally old and broken.
Later versions of keysoft on the keynote devices could play
interactive fiction games and access the net in a limited way.
To be honest I'd still like to get the last of the querty keynote
mpowers or apex units to see what I could do with them.
Just for kicks and nothing more.
Back in the day I had an old keynote gold sa but after my disks
started failing I gave up trying to bother.
However if you can get a few packs of 3.5 inch floppies and a drive or
a way to merge rawwrite created images for say boot, etc into 1 omega
large file you technically can install dos 6.22.
Failing that, you should be able to get dos 7 which I believe is
either opensource or well basically not an issue to get.
You may even be able to get drdos.
The os is the easy part.
And with oldgames.7z you will have wordperfect 5 and at least images
of keysoft and mastertouch 1x.
You won't have their tablet and you won't have anything like that.
Keysoft 1x was a really basic shell and I wish I could get 2x.
Technically though if you can get old keynote gold multimedia which
you can get from the same place, I believe keysoft 1 and 2 and
mastertouch are basically public domain.
Of course basically is the issue.
There was never a keynote gold usb created ever so you need to use serials.
With no ssil drivers in existance for anything anymore and even when
they did dolphin sam caused weird issues with the synths well good
luck.
There is no keynote gold drivers for anything, and keynote software
had drivers for themselves.
The touch tablet was itself a line by line refill tablet which never
went anywhere.

So, thats basically it.
There may be demos of keynote gold speech in either dectalk archive or
other places hanging round and I don't even think that things even
kept updated now as most of its creaters have moved on now.
There are ways to emulate old speech synths without using those now to.
Back in 1998 when I still could I tried to aquire an old system to
keep things running but never got far with it.
Saying that if you can obtain, a computer, and a serial card for a 9pin serial.
A copy of vmware, any version that can emulate dos, and get dos 7 on
it or windows 95 or 98 installed on it, or even dos 6.22 or 5.00.
Get my disks and with rawwrite and extract them, then install keysoft1
and mastertouch and have the synth usually in amercian language then
yeah you can do that.
I can tell you now you won't.
Bits still exist.
the actual disk images exist.
rawwritewin exists somewhere online.
Floppy disk drives still exist.
Dos still exists.
Serial cards still exist.
However unless you have a 386 or 486 capible cpu and it has to be
that at least a 386sx 4mb ram, etc, you won't be able to even get it
to work.
And even if you did, you need 3.5 inch disks.
No one has those.
You also need a keynote gold sa.
If you are lucky your local organisation may be throwing them out its
how I acquired mine when I tried.

The unit I used was a toshiba t1850 which was a 386sx 4mb ram a
60-80mb drive and and a 1.44mb 3.5 inch drive.
There was a serial and external numpad connecter.
It had a modem jack modified for the tablet and a power slab that took
a standard old style 2 prong radio cord.
It came with dos 5 but early keynotes came with their own dos system
called keynote commander 1.20 mostly on the old keynote pc+ and
earlier.

Before the toshiba 1850 all software etc was stored in a semi ram
memmory which was fine till the battery lost charge.
Then you had to reinstall everything so you had to carry the system
setup disks everywhere you went.

I never kept any recording of me meaningfully using the keynote.
I used it when at school and after that while at highschool playing
old text dos games.
I had it till 2008 when it finally died.
Never got the same feelings as I had when using it.
But that was it.
After switching to windows I quickly found out how slow it was.
No multiwindow support and while I still do 1 task at a time if I need
to open a multi windowed approach which I sometimes like doing well
you couldn't.
On the flip side, unlike windows if something went wrong you could do
interesting things to the system.
You could replace the system boot files of the os without a reformat.
You could reinstall the os like you would from setup without a reformat.
You could run without the startup files without a reformat.
If you mucked up you could recreate the startup files or fix them
yourself without a reformat.
There was no registry to screwup so you didn't need to reformat if it went bung.
If a program configuration file went and screwed up the system you
could bypass it usually and recreate it without a reformat.
There were no linked modules so if it stuffed you didn't need to reformat.
If the hardware screwed up then maybe.
If you really screwed up and had no speech then maybe you would have
to reinstall the os or something.
You could run a basic system on the screen reader setup disk which I often did.
You could get a basic accessible system on in seconds and could
restore even a full drive in well 4-5 hours.
If the system stuffed then it stuffed but well.
This is still my gripe with windows.
So much is in centralised locations.
This includes system files and configuration data.
Windows has become more and more harder to actually destroy in 90% of
all cases but is easy to dammage enough that it may not start.
To fix it isn't as easy as 1 2 3 kick!
It may be or it may not.
Its easier to just reinstall.
But you can't reinstall a section of the os.
You may install a program but well if its screwed then its screwed propperly.
Its faster to just say screw it all, and reformat rather than mucking
about trying to actually do anything.

On the other hand in dos everything needed a driver and everything
need to be indevidually configured and there were a lot of steps
depending so I guess thats the tradeoff and thats all it is.
Pluss you can't run windows shellless.

On 15/11/2021, Michael Micallef at FITA <michael.micallef@...> wrote:
I agree 100%

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mary Otten via
groups.io
Sent: Monday, 15 November 2021 03:47
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About inserting two features into NVDA that cannot yet
be used natively

CAUTION: This email originated from OUTSIDE the Government Email
Infrastructure. DO NOT CLICK LINKS or OPEN attachments unless you recognise
the sender and know the content is safe.


Having no computer science background, I can't comment on this from that
point of view. But I will say that as an end user who wants to get things
done, does not want to be more involved with the computer than I am with
actual productivity, I would like it if basic functionality that is used by
most people could be part of the program, rather than having to depend on
add-ons. Its a hastle. For those who do this full time, good for you. But
for the rest of us who just want to get tasks done, forget it.



Mary


On 11/14/2021 6:44 PM, Gene wrote:
I think this is a non issue. For one thing, noone is talking about ;adding
twenty, thirty, or more functions. Second, processors are so fast now that
I don’t think adding a lot of functions would make any difference. Also, I
doubt that just adding functions would make a difference even if processors
were much slower because I doubt that a lot of the functions would do
anything except under very specific conditions, thus not taking any
significant amount of computer power.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Sarah k Alawami<mailto:marrie12@...>
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2021 8:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] About inserting two features into NVDA that cannot yet
be used natively

What proof is there that the more add ons that are running with nvda, the
more resources it takes? Would this not be the case the more that is in
core? I personally don't want nvda to become bloated, therefore I use the
add ons to Taylor my experience to what I need it to be.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Marcos
Antonio Schllosser
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2021 1:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] About inserting two features into NVDA that cannot yet be
used natively

Greetings!

I would like to mention the insertion of two features into NVDA that I use a
lot but I have had a lot of problems because these Add-ons need to be
constantly updated due to Python innovations.

1. Added the possibility for NVDA to pronounce copy, paste, cut and select
when manipulating texts or applications. There are 2 Add-ons that were
developed for this but it would be very interesting if these functions were
available natively in NVDA so we don't need to install this Add-on.

2. Inserting one more option in Dictionary preferences. It would be the
option of creating Dictionaries for specific applications. There is already
an Add-on for this as well but it would be very interesting if this
functionality were built in natively in NVDA.

Because the less Add-ons we install the better the performance of NVDA.
And because I use it a lot, I can't give up these two features that I've
been using for several years.

I appreciate if you can insert more of these two possibilities natively in
NVDA.

















Re: About inserting two features into NVDA that cannot yet be used natively

Michael Micallef at FITA
 

I agree 100%

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mary Otten via groups.io
Sent: Monday, 15 November 2021 03:47
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About inserting two features into NVDA that cannot yet be used natively

 

CAUTION: This email originated from OUTSIDE the Government Email Infrastructure. DO NOT CLICK LINKS or OPEN attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.

 

Having no computer science background, I can't comment on this from that point of view. But I will say that as an end user who wants to get things done, does not want to be more involved with the computer than I am with actual productivity, I would like it if basic functionality that is used by most people could be part of the program, rather than having to depend on add-ons. Its a hastle. For those who do this full time, good for you. But for the rest of us who just want to get tasks done, forget it.

 

Mary

 

On 11/14/2021 6:44 PM, Gene wrote:

I think this is a non issue.  For one thing, noone is talking about ;adding twenty, thirty, or more functions.  Second, processors are so fast now that I don’t think adding a lot of functions would make any difference.  Also, I doubt that just adding functions would make a difference even if processors were much slower because I doubt that a lot of the functions would do anything except under very specific conditions, thus not taking any significant amount of computer power.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2021 8:18 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] About inserting two features into NVDA that cannot yet be used natively

 

What proof is there that the more add ons that are running with nvda, the more resources it takes? Would this not be the case the more that is in core? I personally don't want nvda to become bloated, therefore I use the add ons to Taylor my experience to what I need it to be.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Marcos Antonio Schllosser
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2021 1:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] About inserting two features into NVDA that cannot yet be used natively

Greetings!

I would like to mention the insertion of two features into NVDA that I use a lot but I have had a lot of problems because these Add-ons need to be constantly updated due to Python innovations.

1. Added the possibility for NVDA to pronounce copy, paste, cut and select when manipulating texts or applications. There are 2 Add-ons that were developed for this but it would be very interesting if these functions were available natively in NVDA so we don't need to install this Add-on.

2. Inserting one more option in Dictionary preferences. It would be the option of creating Dictionaries for specific applications. There is already an Add-on for this as well but it would be very interesting if this functionality were built in natively in NVDA.

Because the less Add-ons we install the better the performance of NVDA.
And because I use it a lot, I can't give up these two features that I've been using for several years.

I appreciate if you can insert more of these two possibilities natively in NVDA.











Re: Interview with Bhavya Shah - part 1

Eduardo Fermiano Luccas
 

it would be nice without background music, it would be like a pody cast

Em seg., 15 de nov. de 2021 às 00:15, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> escreveu:

Thanks Marilyn!

Re the music - it's a tricky balance - some people prefer something and some prefer silence.  I try to keep it fairly soft and unobtrusive.  It's good to hear what people do and don't like though, thank you!

Quentin.

On Fri, Nov 12, 2021 at 4:11 PM Marilyn and Don Bilderback <djbilderback@...> wrote:

Great interview.  But, I could do without the background music!  It wasn’t too loud or energetic, I just don’t like distractions to hearing the main thing.  And that is the words we hear.  It is especially important with interviewees who do not have English as their first language. 

 

I loved hearing Bhavya’s voice and his wonderful story.  I didn’t think this type of interview was too long. 

 

I think both of you did very well with questions and answers and I look forward to the next one.  By the way, quentin, you have an interesting voice too!   

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2021 5:17 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Interview with Bhavya Shah - part 1

 

Hi everyone,

 

Today I am excited to bring you another in our NVDA user stories series - this one the start of its own series!  I chatted with community contributor Bhavya Shah recently, about how he came to NVDA and how he uses it, and some of the many other aspects of his busy life.  It was such a great interview, that we didn't want to cut too much out to keep it short, so instead we're making it a three part series.  Part 1 is available now:

 

 

As always I'm interested in feedback, but also particularly this time, on the longer series format and whether that works for you or not?

 

Kind regards

 

Quentin.

 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: Interview with Bhavya Shah - part 1

Quentin Christensen
 

Thanks Marilyn!

Re the music - it's a tricky balance - some people prefer something and some prefer silence.  I try to keep it fairly soft and unobtrusive.  It's good to hear what people do and don't like though, thank you!

Quentin.

On Fri, Nov 12, 2021 at 4:11 PM Marilyn and Don Bilderback <djbilderback@...> wrote:

Great interview.  But, I could do without the background music!  It wasn’t too loud or energetic, I just don’t like distractions to hearing the main thing.  And that is the words we hear.  It is especially important with interviewees who do not have English as their first language. 

 

I loved hearing Bhavya’s voice and his wonderful story.  I didn’t think this type of interview was too long. 

 

I think both of you did very well with questions and answers and I look forward to the next one.  By the way, quentin, you have an interesting voice too!   

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2021 5:17 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Interview with Bhavya Shah - part 1

 

Hi everyone,

 

Today I am excited to bring you another in our NVDA user stories series - this one the start of its own series!  I chatted with community contributor Bhavya Shah recently, about how he came to NVDA and how he uses it, and some of the many other aspects of his busy life.  It was such a great interview, that we didn't want to cut too much out to keep it short, so instead we're making it a three part series.  Part 1 is available now:

 

 

As always I'm interested in feedback, but also particularly this time, on the longer series format and whether that works for you or not?

 

Kind regards

 

Quentin.

 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

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