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Re: Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key
Steve Nutt
I already have.
The caps lock’s main purpose is for you to type in full caps. If NVDA slows this ability down, even by a keystroke, it should be considered.
Again, Narrator is smart enough to know the difference between a press on its own, or a multiple press.
All the best
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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 15 November 2021 16:00 To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key
There are objective facts and opinions. You are stating a fact. You do this. You have presented no evidence to support a generalization that a lot of people do what you do nor that they find pressing caps lock twice to be something they consider a problem or an inconvenience worth asking to be changed. Nor have you presented arguments why these things might be the case.
I have no evidence either, in terms of that I haven’t taken a survey of a representative sample of NVDA members. But it is just common sense, considering the purpose of the caps lock key that most people don’t use it much.
Also, in all the years I’ve been on this list, I have never heard this complained of before. Therefore, it is a good inductive conclusion that few people are bothered by the current way this is set up.
Gene -----Origina Message----- From: Steve Nutt Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 9:33 AM Subject: Re: [nvda] Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key
But what makes anyone say it isn’t? Everyone’s experience is different.
I know loads of people who use the caps lock, both blind and not.
All the best
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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
You are one person. If you took three showers a day, that doesn’t mean it is common.
Gene -----Original Message----- From: Steve Nutt Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 2:37 AM Subject: Re: [nvda] Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key
I disagree with your assertion that caps lock is not commonly used. I use it a lot.
All the best
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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
On Fri, Nov 12, 2021 at 08:19 AM, Gene wrote:
- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043 The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all. ~ John F. Kennedy
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Re: Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key
Steve Nutt
Exactly, why would you hold shift key down to do a fully capped word or sentence? Makes no sense to me.
All the best
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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: 15 November 2021 15:58 To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key
I also use it a lot to tag some of my videos as there are things that need all caps, and I’m too lazy to hold down shift while typing KLAS to KMIA, or maybe I want to shout at someone on discord, Ok, maybe not. Lol!
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
I disagree with your assertion that caps lock is not commonly used. I use it a lot.
All the best
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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
On Fri, Nov 12, 2021 at 08:19 AM, Gene wrote:
- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043 The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all. ~ John F. Kennedy
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NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome
Tyler Zahnke <programmer651@...>
Hello NVDA community! Why does NVDA not read some checkboxes in Google
Chrome? NVDA reads a lot of them, but some sites have a "remember me" checkbox on their login screen that just says "clickable"; when you press Enter where it says clickable, the box checks, but NVDA doesn't tell you this. I have seen websites that contain both accessible and inaccessible checkboxes, why is this? And several times (I have a memory of seeing this on the login screen of Palai), it doesn't read some of the checkboxes, such as "remember me", at all. It actually got to the point where I thought they had removed the checkbox from their site because it completely didn't read it, but users of other devices claimed they still saw the checkbox, but several of us Chrome and NVDA users noticed the missing checkbox. And as soon as I tried the same site with Firefox and NVDA, I saw the checkbox, but it said "remember me clickable" and therefore, though you could check and uncheck it, NVDA wouldn't tell you, while on Chrome, NVDA skips over the box. This was a problem with a website that I actually had to help out as far as accessibility; their site had some regular checkboxes on the form and screen readers could read it just fine, but then some checkboxes said "clickable" or didn't say anything at all, yet the Enter key worked on them but the screen reader didn't say. I've probably seen variations on this issue for a few years, some checkbox not displaying in Chrome. Often I would try it again with Firefox, and at least in the checkbox-related cases, it usually worked. And in the case of the website I helped make accessible, I even looked at the HTML for the checkboxes, and even the inaccessible checkboxes were still coded like checkboxes though they may have had some extra styling on them. So what's the deal with checkboxes?
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Re: Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key
I actually have been bothered, but I figured this was the default of every screen reader, until I started using differen oss. It’s not really a big deal to me, nice to have but not necessary.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 8:00 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key
There are objective facts and opinions. You are stating a fact. You do this. You have presented no evidence to support a generalization that a lot of people do what you do nor that they find pressing caps lock twice to be something they consider a problem or an inconvenience worth asking to be changed. Nor have you presented arguments why these things might be the case.
I have no evidence either, in terms of that I haven’t taken a survey of a representative sample of NVDA members. But it is just common sense, considering the purpose of the caps lock key that most people don’t use it much.
Also, in all the years I’ve been on this list, I have never heard this complained of before. Therefore, it is a good inductive conclusion that few people are bothered by the current way this is set up.
Gene -----Origina Message----- From: Steve Nutt Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 9:33 AM Subject: Re: [nvda] Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key
But what makes anyone say it isn’t? Everyone’s experience is different.
I know loads of people who use the caps lock, both blind and not.
All the best
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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
You are one person. If you took three showers a day, that doesn’t mean it is common.
Gene -----Original Message----- From: Steve Nutt Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 2:37 AM Subject: Re: [nvda] Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key
I disagree with your assertion that caps lock is not commonly used. I use it a lot.
All the best
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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
On Fri, Nov 12, 2021 at 08:19 AM, Gene wrote:
- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043 The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all. ~ John F. Kennedy
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Re: control plus windows plus either left or right arrows
Also check to see if keys are stuck. Hit ctrl left and right, shft, left and right, alt left then right, windows, capslock, then tab, in that order to make sure nothing is software stuck.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Isige
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 7:49 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] control plus windows plus either left or right arrows
Windows 11 might use them for something, but it doesn't move by word. I get silence but I was also out of the Thunderbird message window, or at least, NVDA didn't think it was in focus. I'd guess either an addon, or not all of the keys are being held down. It's really easy to do with triple keys like that. I tend to try to use one finger between them, e.g. alt-win, and hit them both at the same time, and sometimes, you just don't have a good enough hold on them.
On 11/15/2021 9:43 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
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Re: Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key
Gene
There are objective facts and opinions. You are stating a fact.
You do this. You have presented no evidence to support a generalization
that a lot of people do what you do nor that they find pressing caps lock twice
to be something they consider a problem or an inconvenience worth asking to be
changed. Nor have you presented arguments why these things might be the
case.
I have no evidence either, in terms of that I haven’t taken a survey of a
representative sample of NVDA members. But it is just common sense,
considering the purpose of the caps lock key that most people don’t use it
much.
Also, in all the years I’ve been on this list, I have never heard this
complained of before. Therefore, it is a good inductive conclusion that
few people are bothered by the current way this is set up.
Gene
-----Origina Message-----
From: Steve Nutt
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 9:33 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA
key But what makes anyone say it isn’t? Everyone’s experience is different.
I know loads of people who use the caps lock, both blind and not.
All the best
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From:
nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Gene
You are one person. If you took three showers a day, that doesn’t mean it is common.
Gene -----Original Message----- From: Steve Nutt Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 2:37 AM Subject: Re: [nvda] Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key
I disagree with your assertion that caps lock is not commonly used. I use it a lot.
All the best
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From:
nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian
Vogel
On Fri, Nov 12, 2021 at 08:19 AM, Gene wrote:
- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043 The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all. ~ John F. Kennedy
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Re: Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key
I also use it a lot to tag some of my videos as there are things that need all caps, and I’m too lazy to hold down shift while typing KLAS to KMIA, or maybe I want to shout at someone on discord, Ok, maybe not. Lol!
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 12:38 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key
I disagree with your assertion that caps lock is not commonly used. I use it a lot.
All the best
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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
On Fri, Nov 12, 2021 at 08:19 AM, Gene wrote:
- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043 The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all. ~ John F. Kennedy
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Re: control plus windows plus either left or right arrows
Gene
Control windows left and right arrow does nothing in a document. It
is control left and right arrow that moves by word.
It appears to me, that in general, input help
announces the function of a command when it is an NVDA specific command such as
NVDA key t and doesn’t announce the purpose otherwise. I found exceptions,
being clipboard commands such as control c. Down arrow is just announced
as down arrow because it is nott an NVDA specific command.
Others with more technical knowledge may wish to discuss if the behavior
may be changed and how much work would be involved. Another question is
whether the work involved would justify the benefit.
With the exception of clipboard commands, it appears that only NVDA
specific commands can be changed in the gestures settings. There are ways
to change other commands but they are not done by NVDA.
The commands you are asking about are Windows commands and would need to be
changed differently.
When working in input gesture settings, you can filter by what something
does such as current line, but you can’t search for a command such as NVDA
t.
You don’t have to arrow through all the commands. The gestures are
organized in a tree view. As you down arrow, you will hear
dcategories. When you get to a category you want to look at, right arrow
on the name of the category to open it. When finnished, when in the
category or on the name, left arrow until it is closed or just go on looking
down the rest of the categories and leave that one opened if you wish.
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: mike mcglashon
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 9:16 AM
Subject: [nvda] control plus windows plus either left or right
arrows Hi guys:
I have a question regarding the use of control+windows+left and right arrows; It looks like when using these keystrokes, Nvda moves by word or something;
I also use these keys to switch between desktops; When I go into nvda+1 help mode and hit those keys, It says the keys but not their nvda function;
Is there a way in nvda’s gestures listing of keys for me to see what nvda is doing with those keys, and perhaps either change the keystrokes or turn them off altogether without having to arrow through all the gestures?
Currently, I have to hit nvda+f2 to bypass the next key each time I hit control+windows+left or right arrows?
Please advise as you like.
Mike M.
Mike mcglashon Email: Michael.mcglashon@... Ph: 618 783 9331
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Re: control plus windows plus either left or right arrows
John Isige
Windows 11 might use them for something, but it doesn't move by word. I get silence but I was also out of the Thunderbird message window, or at least, NVDA didn't think it was in focus. I'd guess either an addon, or not all of the keys are being held down. It's really easy to do with triple keys like that. I tend to try to use one finger between them, e.g. alt-win, and hit them both at the same time, and sometimes, you just don't have a good enough hold on them.
On 11/15/2021 9:43 AM, Brian Vogel
wrote:
Mike,
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Re: control plus windows plus either left or right arrows
Mike,
Sorry that I somehow confabulated CTRL with WinKey in my prior response. But the overarching principle still applies. But now, in rechecking the NVDA Quick Commands Reference (NVDA + N, H, Q), the following section applies: When within a table, the following key commands are also available:
But these should active if and only if you are currently within a table, at least if the commands quick reference is accurate, and I'd have to believe it is. -- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043 The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all. ~ John F. Kennedy
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Re: control plus windows plus either left or right arrows
Mike,
What NVDA Add-Ons are you using? I just did a quick review of the Input Gestures dialog, and the NVDA Quick Commands, and neither indicates that CTRL + WinKey + arrow keys is assigned to anything by NVDA (unless I missed it, and that's possible). This leads me to believe that this is likely a conflict caused by some add-on. There are a finite number of keyboard shortcuts available, and triple-key-press ones are seldom used, even by Windows. I suspect an add-on has snagged this and that's why you need to use pass-through (NVDA + F2) to get it to have its other default function in the application you're using. It would help to know what application that is, and what the intended function of the WinKey + Alt + Left or Right Arrow key is in that application, too. -- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043 The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all. ~ John F. Kennedy
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Re: Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key
Steve Nutt
But what makes anyone say it isn’t? Everyone’s experience is different.
I know loads of people who use the caps lock, both blind and not.
All the best
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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 15 November 2021 15:17 To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key
You are one person. If you took three showers a day, that doesn’t mean it is common.
Gene -----Original Message----- From: Steve Nutt Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 2:37 AM Subject: Re: [nvda] Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key
I disagree with your assertion that caps lock is not commonly used. I use it a lot.
All the best
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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
On Fri, Nov 12, 2021 at 08:19 AM, Gene wrote:
- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043 The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all. ~ John F. Kennedy
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Re: What Is The Proper Way To Display Icons On the System Tray In Windows 11 As Concerns NVDA
Believe it or not, what follows is not me trying to shut down this topic, but trying to be as helpful as I can and point you to what is likely to be a far more useful resource.
This topic is an example of where the screen reader is the least likely thing to be the root cause of the issue. When Windows changes, and the UI change for Windows 11 is a significant change, access issues with Windows elements you used to have easy access to is likely to lie with Windows itself. Sometimes the screen reader developers were made aware of potential sticking points well in advance of a given Windows release, and sometimes they weren't. At times, this means they will be playing catch up along with the rest of us. For any issues related to Windows functions, and heaven knows the quick launch bar, task bar, and notification area/system tray all are in that category, the group that always has the most active discussions about these has historically been the Windows Access for Screen Reader Users Group (formerly the Windows 10 for Screen Reader Users Group). I would strongly suggest joining there, and joining in, when it comes to Windows 11 related sticking points as that's where the "critical mass" of Windows 11 users is most likely to be. At the moment, even there, that's still a small minority of the overall membership. Most are following the advice to avoid upgrading to Windows 11 until next spring, at earliest. But some have purchased machines that came with Windows 11 and don't want to downgrade to Windows 10, and in that situation I can't say I blame them. Windows Access for Screen Reader Users Group (Formerly: Windows 10 for Screen Reader Users Group) Group Archive: https://winaccess.groups.io/g/winaccess/topics Subscribe: winaccess+subscribe@winaccess.groups.io Post: winaccess@winaccess.groups.io Unsubscribe: winaccess+unsubscribe@winaccess.groups.io Group Owner: winaccess+owner@winaccess.groups.io Help: winaccess+help@winaccess.groups.io --Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043 The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all. ~ John F. Kennedy
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Re: Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key
Gene
You are one person. If you took three showers a day, that doesn’t
mean it is common.
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Nutt
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 2:37 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA
key I disagree with your assertion that caps lock is not commonly used. I use it a lot.
All the best
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From:
nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian
Vogel
On Fri, Nov 12, 2021 at 08:19 AM, Gene wrote:
- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043 The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all. ~ John F. Kennedy
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control plus windows plus either left or right arrows
mike mcglashon
Hi guys:
I have a question regarding the use of control+windows+left and right arrows; It looks like when using these keystrokes, Nvda moves by word or something;
I also use these keys to switch between desktops; When I go into nvda+1 help mode and hit those keys, It says the keys but not their nvda function;
Is there a way in nvda’s gestures listing of keys for me to see what nvda is doing with those keys, and perhaps either change the keystrokes or turn them off altogether without having to arrow through all the gestures?
Currently, I have to hit nvda+f2 to bypass the next key each time I hit control+windows+left or right arrows?
Please advise as you like.
Mike M.
Mike mcglashon Email: Michael.mcglashon@... Ph: 618 783 9331
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Re: Unable to focus on zoom
Sim Kah Yong
Hi, can you try pressing Control + Alternate + Shift and see if that help you to focus back on Zoom.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 10/11/2021 1:34 pm, Ali Colak wrote:
Hello,
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Re: Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key
Steve Nutt
I disagree with your assertion that caps lock is not commonly used. I use it a lot.
All the best
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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: 12 November 2021 16:00 To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key
On Fri, Nov 12, 2021 at 08:19 AM, Gene wrote:
- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043 The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all. ~ John F. Kennedy
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Re: Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key
Steve Nutt
Yes, that is not difficult at all. Narrator does it already.
If you press it on its own, it becomes caps lock. If you press it with another key, any other key, it becomes a modifier. Simples really.
All the best
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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 12 November 2021 13:19 To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key
It would be an execution nightmare. First, how does Windows know what your intent is? Would it be required that it be pressed simultaneouswly with another keey in order to function as an NVDA key? I suspect a lot of people do not do so now some or much of the time. And what about people with coordination problems who might find it difficult to do this?
Also, having a two key simultaneous press requirement violates the way modifier keys work. The NVDA key is a modifier. Control, shift, and alt do not require another key to be pressed simultaneously. You can press and hold the modifier and press another key wile doing so. You can press them simultaneously but it is not required.
Gene -----Original Message----- From: Steve Nutt Sent: Friday, November 12, 2021 6:44 AM Subject: Re: [nvda] Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key
Hi Chris,
I think what Rowan is saying is that if you just press the caps lock key without any other key, NVDA should pass it through. I agree with this.
All the best
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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris via groups.io
And what about those of us who cannot use their right hand??? Or is your opinion tough shit to those of have only the use of one hand As long as you dont have to press a key twice, sod everybody else
From: Rowen Cary
Hi All, I think we need to improve the caps lock key, Since the function of the NVDA key is to cooperate with other keys to trigger a certain function, pressing the caps lock key once has no meaning for NVDA. Can we return it to the operating system for processing? This way we don’t need to quickly press Caps Lock twice every time we switch between upper and lower case. Some screen reader is already doing this, and the user experience is very good. I think NVDA can also do this, or even better. Thanks!
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Re: What Is The Proper Way To Display Icons On the System Tray In Windows 11 As Concerns NVDA
Gene
If you can’t get to the system tray icon in a convenient way, you may be
able to get to the volume control by typing sndvol in the start menu
search.
Also, you can make a short cut to the volume control on the desktop and
assign a shortcut key.
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Canazzi
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 12:50 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] What Is The Proper Way To Display Icons On the
System Tray In Windows 11 As Concerns NVDA Hi
Group, Thanks to all who gave information about the icons on the system tray. The Molsem advice works--but is a bit clumsy. I do in fact even see the volume icon but I must go all the way one direction (left arrow) and follow by all the way (right arrow) to get it to display. Once it shows, I can use the context key to access the various functions. The volume icon and a few others do not show up when using the NVDA add on (NVDA key + F11) keystroke. On 11/14/2021 10:00 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote: > Hi Group, > > Shortly after I upgraded to Windows 11, I have had an issue when > trying to review items on the system tray. I don't see all of them > that should appear. somehow (and I don't think it was immediately > after installation of Windows 11--but maybe a day or so later) all I > see if 5 icons and when I get to the network icon, what seems to be > happening is that for some reason I lose focus on the system tray and > wind up on the taskbar. > > I must have accidentally changed something in some manner to > hide/conceal icons on the taskbar. So what are the proper settings > that will display all the icons I want to see on the system tray? In > particular, I cannot access the volume icon on the system tray. > This issue occurs both with the Windows command Windows key + B and > with the add on for NVDA which uses the JAWS similar keystroke NVDA + > F11. > -- Signature: For a nation to admit it has done grevous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice; For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!
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Re: What Is The Proper Way To Display Icons On the System Tray In Windows 11 As Concerns NVDA
Ron Canazzi
Hi Group,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Thanks to all who gave information about the icons on the system tray. The Molsem advice works--but is a bit clumsy. I do in fact even see the volume icon but I must go all the way one direction (left arrow) and follow by all the way (right arrow) to get it to display. Once it shows, I can use the context key to access the various functions. The volume icon and a few others do not show up when using the NVDA add on (NVDA key + F11) keystroke.
On 11/14/2021 10:00 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Group, --
Signature: For a nation to admit it has done grevous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice; For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!
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