Hello All,

I have just encountered a situation while assisting another member of the group that I have never encountered before, and none of my NVDA mojo seems to be able to solve the issue.

Under all other circumstances I've ever dealt with, when you attempt to exit NVDA the Exit NVDA dialog appears, the "What would you like to do?," question is announced, and then the combo box with the options to Exit, Restart, Restart with add-ons disabled, and [at least for betas] Restart with debug logging enabled being the 4 choices.  Then there are the OK and Cancel buttons.   This behavior happens whether I use NVDA + Q or NVDA + N, X as my method of invoking exit.

On this particular machine, NVDA just exits, with no exit dialog presented, and apparently has been doing this for some years.  We just installed NVDA 2021.3beta2, and it occurs with this version, too.  This makes me very strongly suspect that there is some obscure NVDA setting, somewhere, that one can set to make NVDA always exit when the exit keystrokes are entered, but I'll be darned if I can find where it is.

If someone knows what needs to be tweaked in order to bring back the NVDA Exit dialog, please share.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

El 16 nov 2021, a la(s) 12:09 p.m., zvonimir stanečić, 9a5dsz <zvonimirek222@...> escribió:



Hi,

Eloquence and vocalizer package costs 59 euros.

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Viris g. Rodriguez
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2021 7:08 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda vocalizer & eloquence synthesizer plugin

 

Just out of curiosity, How much does Eloquence cost? I would like to buy it. Also I was wondering how many languages it supports.
Thanks in advance.

----- Original Message -----
From: Chris via groups.io
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Date: Tuesday, November 16, 2021 06:28
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda vocalizer & eloquence synthesizer plugin

Free upgrades, no more to pay once you have bought the licence thats it

 

 

 

 

From: Michael Micallef at FITA
Sent: 16 November 2021 12:19
To: nvda mailing list (nvda@nvda.groups.io)
Subject: [nvda] nvda vocalizer & eloquence synthesizer plugin

 

Hi NVDA Users,

 

I'm planning to buy the nvda Eloquence & vocalizer synthesizer add-on for nvda from codefactory. Does any knows if the future upgrades for these two synthesizers are free or paid, and how much usually costs the upgrades?

 

Just out of curiosity, How much does Eloquence cost? I would like to buy it. Also I was wondering how many languages it supports.
Thanks in advance.

----- Original Message -----
From: Chris via groups.io
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Date: Tuesday, November 16, 2021 06:28
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda vocalizer & eloquence synthesizer plugin

Free upgrades, no more to pay once you have bought the licence thats it

 

 

 

 

From: Michael Micallef at FITA
Sent: 16 November 2021 12:19
To: nvda mailing list (nvda@nvda.groups.io)
Subject: [nvda] nvda vocalizer & eloquence synthesizer plugin

 

Hi NVDA Users,

 

I'm planning to buy the nvda Eloquence & vocalizer synthesizer add-on for nvda from codefactory. Does any knows if the future upgrades for these two synthesizers are free or paid, and how much usually costs the upgrades?

 

On Nov 15, 2021, at 7:36 PM, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:



There isn't currently a way to separate announcement of strikethrough from other font attributes.

The options I can think of (unless there is an add-on with more granularity?) are basically:

- Create an issue on: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues outlining the need and use case

- See if your team can change the way they report changes

- If the page doesn't have a lot of other font attribute changes, another option is to set a configuration profile with font attributes enabled, and assign it a keystroke so that you can enable that configuration easily.

See our recent In-process blog article on using Configuration Profiles: https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-19th-august-2021/#Profiles

Here's an older blog post which covered using Input gestures: https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-24th-july-2018/#InputGestures

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 9:46 AM Luke Robinett <lukelistservs@...> wrote:

Hi,
I need to know when text on a particular website has been formatted as strikethrough. I found that if I enabled the font attributes setting from the document formatting tab of NVDA settings this reports the strikethrough attribute, but it also reports all other attributes of fonts, which is way too much information. I just need to know when something is strikethrough because this is how my development team indicates a requirement that no longer needs to be considered when I’m reviewing a ticket. Is there a way to tell NVDA to only announce if the strike through attribute is present but otherwise behave as normal? If not, I may need to work with my team to get them to capture the information in a different way. I just prefer not to have to change everybody else’s processes if I can fix it on my end. Thanks.

--

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Training and Support Manager

Web: www.nvaccess.org 

Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/

User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess

It’s just a shame that Firefox is so slow compared with Chrome, certainly on all my machines it is.

 

All the best

Steve

 

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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Sackrider
Sent: 16 November 2021 00:10
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

        I have an example of whear fire fox will and nvda will see somthng but chrome brousers don't.  The audio of the lions magazine in both edge and chrome there is no down it all button but in fire fox there is a down it all button.  I am not surprised about other things that fire fox sees that chrome brousers don't this is why I say that for the blind chrome based brousers are kind of usless junk and this is the reason that I use internet explorer for as long as I did as it was not a chrome based brouser.  I have windows 11 and there is no more internet explorer so I had to find a nonchrome based brouser and thats why i am using fire fox as my default brouser.

Brian Sackrider

On 11/15/2021 5:12 PM, Gene wrote:

I am increasingly finding cases where Firefox either sees things or does things that Chrome doesn’t when used with NVDA.  I don’t use JAWS and my demo is far too old to evaluate whether the same things occur.  But I think the question of whether Chrome-based browsers are working properly with sites in terms of accessibility should be systematically addressed.

 

Here are two examples:

First is this article from The New York Times;.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/15/us/rittenhouse-trial-closing-arguments.html

If you are at the top of the page and press s to move by separator, you will immediately move to cards giving background information on the story.

In Firefox, you see, at the end of the card, a button for previous card, unavailable since you are on the first card, and a button for next card.

Activating this button works.  It moves you to the next card.

To easily get to this card in a proper position to read it, press page up, then s for separator.

The previous and next card buttons both work correctly for this card and, I assume, for all other cards.

 

I tested with Chrome and Brave and neither of these Chrome-based browsers saw either button. I could read the first card below the separator but no buttons are displayed.

I’ve recently been looking up material on occasion using the Encyclopedia Britannica online.  When reading with Firefox, the page being read automatically shows new material as you move down it.  Firefox shows this new material when it appears.  Chrome-based browsers don’t. 

This article is an example:

https://www.britannica.com/art/television-in-the-United-States/The-late-Golden-Age

 

Search from the top of the page for the word nervous.  If you down arrow in Firefox, the text continues after some items, perhaps three or four.  Chrome-based browsers don’t load new material at least not accessibly to screen-readers.

 

Chrome-based browsers don’t see comments on Youtube pages where videos are streamed.  Firefox does.  Because the page changes as you move down it, you have to move down the page to see the comments.  You can’t just search for the word comment to get to the section.

 

I’ll add that all these comments are for my specific machine but I expect they will be generally experienced.  Verification, however, is necessary.

 

Are these problems with Chrome, with NVDA, or both?  I suspect that these problems are not improper implementation of accessibility.  Those questions, however, would require technically knowledgeable investigation to be resolved.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Gene

Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 11:00 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

Since Firefox sees the checkboxes, I don’t know that its valid to assume what the problem is and that it is improper design.  Also, there may be cases where you will hear explanatory text that accompanies a structure read if you tab into the structure rather than move to it in some other way.  I haven’t compared Chrome-based and not Chrome-based browsers in these cases but again, is this improper design or just the complexity of design?

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Jackie

Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 10:55 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

Yeah well, I'm not trying to be obscene here, but it's because the web
designers didn't use checkboxes that expose themselves, or, perhaps to
put it just a bit more succinctly, expose their state. & it is a royal
pita, & it's not unique to NVDA, though having said thus, sometimes
Jaws actually allows labeling of these graphics, whereas NVDA doesn't.
& it's not an issue specific to Chrome, either. It's actually called a
"clickable element" as opposed to a checkbox. Sighted folks generally
cant distinguish these from standard checkboxes, but they sure create
problems for us.

On 11/15/21, Tyler Zahnke <programmer651@...> wrote:
> Hello NVDA community! Why does NVDA not read some checkboxes in Google
> Chrome? NVDA reads a lot of them, but some sites have a "remember me"
> checkbox on their login screen that just says "clickable"; when you
> press Enter where it says clickable, the box checks, but NVDA doesn't
> tell you this. I have seen websites that contain both accessible and
> inaccessible checkboxes, why is this? And several times (I have a
> memory of seeing this on the login screen of Palai), it doesn't read
> some of the checkboxes, such as "remember me", at all. It actually got
> to the point where I thought they had removed the checkbox from their
> site because it completely didn't read it, but users of other devices
> claimed they still saw the checkbox, but several of us Chrome and NVDA
> users noticed the missing checkbox. And as soon as I tried the same
> site with Firefox and NVDA, I saw the checkbox, but it said "remember
> me clickable" and therefore, though you could check and uncheck it,
> NVDA wouldn't tell you, while on Chrome, NVDA skips over the box. This
> was a problem with a website that I actually had to help out as far as
> accessibility; their site had some regular checkboxes on the form and
> screen readers could read it just fine, but then some checkboxes said
> "clickable" or didn't say anything at all, yet the Enter key worked on
> them but the screen reader didn't say. I've probably seen variations
> on this issue for a few years, some checkbox not displaying in Chrome.
> Often I would try it again with Firefox, and at least in the
> checkbox-related cases, it usually worked. And in the case of the
> website I helped make accessible, I even looked at the HTML for the
> checkboxes, and even the inaccessible checkboxes were still coded like
> checkboxes though they may have had some extra styling on them. So
> what's the deal with checkboxes?
>
>
>
>
>
>


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This discussion illustrates the major flaw in the way automatic switching of
modes is implemented. Modes aren’t automatically switched when you down
arrow from forms mode to browse mode. If you are in forms mode and you up
or down arrow, you will remain in forms mode. Thus, you will not move from
where you are. If you tab you will move and the mode will automatically
switch. This is a built-in bias that encourages tabbing through forms,
which is often the behavior you miss content by doing. I’m not saying that
is the intent of the design, but that is an important effect.

To be consistent and not encourage tabbing over arrowing, automatic
switching should occur when you up and down arrow as well as when you tab.
Making this change would eliminate my major objection to automatic
switching.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Tyler Zahnke
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2021 11:06 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google
Chrome

Let's see.
I'm in Firefox with NVDA, I just checked my window and it is maximized
(I went into the system menu and maximize is unavailable so that must
mean the window is already maximized). So I scroll down the page.
There's the email address box. Sometimes, when I try to arrow down
past the email address box, it tries to autofill it. So perhaps it's
trying to autofill your password box (it doesn't do this for me). So
maybe your step would be more like this; maybe get out of the password
box input mode, whether NVDA+Space or pressing Escape, either one, so
now you're on the password box without being in it, and then arrow
down, and it reads the word "remember me". Or, if it's easier, arrow
up from the "log in" button.

On 11/16/21, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 11:53 AM, Tyler Zahnke wrote:

Firefox does not read whether the checkbox is checked or not, it's
just the words "remember me" are being read if I arrow down from the
password box,

-
Truly, I am not trying to be difficult, but I do not understand exactly
what
you mean or are doing. If I'm sitting in the password box, in Firefox,
using down arrow does not get me out of that box.

There is something specific about the exact sequence of steps you are
using
that I am not hitting upon in my experimentation. I can't replicate the
success you've had even with just the announcement of "Remember Me" unless
I
use "the sighted way" with the mouse. I'd like to be able to replicate
your
experience for my own education, and how you do this may be relevant to
other situations.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043

*The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.*

~ John F. Kennedy

Tyler,

That worked.  Forcing NVDA out of focus mode and into browse mode prior to
down arrowing from the password edit box does get, "Clickable, remember me,"
announced when using Firefox.  And hitting either the spacebar or enter
toggles the remember me checkbox from off to on for the first press and does
the standard off, on, off, on with any subsequent presses.

And the lack of that behavior under Chromium based browsers is consistent.
A down arrow from the password box after going back into browse mode takes
you straight to the, "By continuing," line.

I still suspect this has to do with what each respective browser does with
respect to the hidden attribute.  It appears that under Chomium browsers,
that attribute is persistent, while in Firefox for some reason it's not.
And if that's the case, and it may not be, then either Firefox or
Chrome/Chromium-based browsers are wrong about how they are handling that
object.  This is not something that should be inconsistent, and my gut tells
me that Firefox is misbehaving.  But those far better versed than myself
both in what web browsers are supposed to honor as far as what gets exposed
to a screen reader based upon attributes and what NVDA itself is doing
"under the hood" would have to speak to that.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043

*The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.*

~ John F. Kennedy