Date   

Re: NVDA speechless on the enter key in Wordpad

Mani Iyer
 

Good to hear from you again after a long time. :)
Thank you Sarah. But you have no idea as to why NVDA does not speak the enter key on Wordpad?

Mani

On Nov 17, 2021, at 11:25 AM, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:

I recommend Jarte. It is no longer being made, but it is one of my favorite programs to use for an RTF editor and a docx viewer.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mani Iyer via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 7:56 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA speechless on the enter key in Wordpad

Hello all,
Having worked on the Mac with Voiceover for many years, I am a newbie to Windows and NVDA which I am learning through the user guide and enjoying it.
A RTF editor is a must for what I do and I chose Wordpad (I will welcome ideas for any better NVDA-accessible and free editors). I don’t know what setting would make NVDA speak the enter key whenever I move to a new line. Setting the ‘Speak commands’ option on does speak it but speaks all other commands I press in the process.

Any help will be appreciated. Thanks,.

Warmly,
Mani












Re: Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key

 

On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 11:21 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
I would open an issue on github as well and see where that gets you. Put in a justifiable use case as well when making the suggestion.
-
I absolutely agree on both points.

This group, while incredibly useful, and occasionally read by the NVDA developers, is not the official mechanism for issue reporting nor for feature requests.  While you may want to flesh out whether something you want is something others might want, and how many others, along with additional details via discussion here, you still need to "make it official" by using GitHub.

One of the things I really love about NVDA is that end-users have actual access to the project management software that is used for the development of NVDA (along with untold thousands of other projects) and they encourage you to use it to communicate with the development team.  Yes, you have to learn its quirks, and how to use the reporting template (which, by the way, I've created an MS-Word Fillable Form for if you find doing the initial data entry easier that way), but you are still ending up with something in the queue to be reviewed.

Just be aware as well that "in the queue to be reviewed" doesn't always lead to actual implementation.  Even when something is implemented, it can take several years if it's a low-priority change.

Creating an Issue in GitHub for NVDA
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 


Re: Enable editing on an attachment

 

What follows assumes that you are very picky about what attachments you will, or will not, open.  I am one of those people, and I don't ever open any attachments from unknown senders and have even been known, on rare occasion, to double check with someone I do know who sent something that seems "out of character" or otherwise unusual before opening it.  I hate dealing with protected mode constantly, so I intentionally disable it so that when I do open an attachment, the behavior in the Office program is precisely what it would be if it were a document I created.

By the way, you can substitute, "things you will, or will not, download from the internet," for the attachments bit, too, as there's lots of material out there in MS-Word and MS-Excel formats in particular that you may want to download.  If it comes from a trustworthy source, e.g., Microsoft's Template site, my links to my tutorials, etc., then, by all means, download it and use it.  But for anything questionable, do your homework before even downloading it.  That can save you a lot of heartache.

Adjusting Protected View Settings in MS-Office Programs (docx format)
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Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 


Table with pinned column containing row headers with Firefox

Zaitchik, Alan
 
Edited

I tested with NVDA 2021.2 and FIrefox (93.0) and found that a table with a pinned column in column 1 that contains row header cells does not support navigation up and down column 1 using table navigation commands (Control+Alt+arrow). The row headers are read out correctly, however, when navigating up and down other columns. If I remove the row header cells, or move them to column 2, then navigation of the pinned column works well -- but of course my row header cells can now scroll out of view. NVDA works fine with Chrome and this table.
Note that the pinning is done with CSS but the table is otherwise unexceptional, just some column headers (using scope="col") and a sort button in one column header cell. No Javascript errors or the like get thrown on load. And as I said, problems are gone when the row headers are changed to data cells. The html validates as correct.
The pinning is through a css class 
.headcol {
  position: absolute;
  width: 5em;
  left: 0;
  top: auto;
  border-top-width: 1px;
  margin-top: -1px;
}
which is assigned in every row to the cell in column 1.
Here is a code pen with the problem case: https://codepen.io/azaitchik/pen/YzQxqeX 
Is this a known problem? Is it the css?
Thanks,
Alan


Re: NVDA speechless on the enter key in Wordpad

Sarah k Alawami
 

I recommend Jarte. It is no longer being made, but it is one of my favorite programs to use for an RTF editor and a docx viewer.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mani Iyer via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 7:56 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA speechless on the enter key in Wordpad

Hello all,
Having worked on the Mac with Voiceover for many years, I am a newbie to Windows and NVDA which I am learning through the user guide and enjoying it.
A RTF editor is a must for what I do and I chose Wordpad (I will welcome ideas for any better NVDA-accessible and free editors). I don’t know what setting would make NVDA speak the enter key whenever I move to a new line. Setting the ‘Speak commands’ option on does speak it but speaks all other commands I press in the process.

Any help will be appreciated. Thanks,.

Warmly,
Mani


Re: NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 11:10 AM, Nimer Jaber wrote:
NVDA has options for recreating semi-auto or auto mode as well.
-
Nimer,

            If you happen to know what those options are, please share.  What follows is a general observation not aimed at you, but this situation.

            In regard to NVDA specifically, screen readers more generally, and any complex piece of software even more generally (think operating systems, word processors, spreadsheets) all of them come with certain defaults set, and many options not turned on by default.  While there will occasionally be features of software X that software Y in the same class does not have and has no way to replicate, often that's not the case.  You see this demonstrated quite frequently on this group where someone asks a question of the form, "How do I get NVDA to do {insert specific behavior here} that I use in JAWS?"  The same sort of question occurs on the JAWS groups, too.  And a great deal of the time someone chimes in with the settings you need to tweak, add-ons or scripts you need to obtain, etc.

             It's a mistake to believe that something cannot be done with a given piece of software in a given class just because it doesn't do it by default.  All sorts of defaults can be turned off, and all sorts of options can be turned on.  My question to the group yesterday about the exit dialog not coming up is a classic example of someone at some point having turned off a default behavior, but I knew that what can get turned off can be turned on again; I just didn't know where.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 


Re: NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

Sarah k Alawami
 

Yeah, for me firefox runs fast on this machine, takes about 3-5 seconds to load and that’s it. Maybe it’s page dependent, even screen reader dependent.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 12:44 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

I find it considerably slower than Chrome on many websites. But I have no scientific evidence to back it up.

 

All the best


Steve

 

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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 16 November 2021 16:13
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

I’d be interested in whether others find it slow.  This may just be my experience, but Firefox seems to me to be much faster than it used to be.  I’ve started using it a lot more and I’m considering using it as my main browser.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Steve Nutt

Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2021 3:32 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

It’s just a shame that Firefox is so slow compared with Chrome, certainly on all my machines it is.

 

All the best


Steve

 

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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Sackrider
Sent: 16 November 2021 00:10
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

        I have an example of whear fire fox will and nvda will see somthng but chrome brousers don't.  The audio of the lions magazine in both edge and chrome there is no down it all button but in fire fox there is a down it all button.  I am not surprised about other things that fire fox sees that chrome brousers don't this is why I say that for the blind chrome based brousers are kind of usless junk and this is the reason that I use internet explorer for as long as I did as it was not a chrome based brouser.  I have windows 11 and there is no more internet explorer so I had to find a nonchrome based brouser and thats why i am using fire fox as my default brouser.

Brian Sackrider

On 11/15/2021 5:12 PM, Gene wrote:

I am increasingly finding cases where Firefox either sees things or does things that Chrome doesn’t when used with NVDA.  I don’t use JAWS and my demo is far too old to evaluate whether the same things occur.  But I think the question of whether Chrome-based browsers are working properly with sites in terms of accessibility should be systematically addressed.

 

Here are two examples:

First is this article from The New York Times;.

If you are at the top of the page and press s to move by separator, you will immediately move to cards giving background information on the story.

In Firefox, you see, at the end of the card, a button for previous card, unavailable since you are on the first card, and a button for next card.

Activating this button works.  It moves you to the next card.

To easily get to this card in a proper position to read it, press page up, then s for separator.

The previous and next card buttons both work correctly for this card and, I assume, for all other cards.

 

I tested with Chrome and Brave and neither of these Chrome-based browsers saw either button. I could read the first card below the separator but no buttons are displayed.


I’ve recently been looking up material on occasion using the Encyclopedia Britannica online.  When reading with Firefox, the page being read automatically shows new material as you move down it.  Firefox shows this new material when it appears.  Chrome-based browsers don’t. 

This article is an example:

 

Search from the top of the page for the word nervous.  If you down arrow in Firefox, the text continues after some items, perhaps three or four.  Chrome-based browsers don’t load new material at least not accessibly to screen-readers.

 

Chrome-based browsers don’t see comments on Youtube pages where videos are streamed.  Firefox does.  Because the page changes as you move down it, you have to move down the page to see the comments.  You can’t just search for the word comment to get to the section.

 

I’ll add that all these comments are for my specific machine but I expect they will be generally experienced.  Verification, however, is necessary.

 

Are these problems with Chrome, with NVDA, or both?  I suspect that these problems are not improper implementation of accessibility.  Those questions, however, would require technically knowledgeable investigation to be resolved.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Gene

Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 11:00 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

Since Firefox sees the checkboxes, I don’t know that its valid to assume what the problem is and that it is improper design.  Also, there may be cases where you will hear explanatory text that accompanies a structure read if you tab into the structure rather than move to it in some other way.  I haven’t compared Chrome-based and not Chrome-based browsers in these cases but again, is this improper design or just the complexity of design?

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Jackie

Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 10:55 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

Yeah well, I'm not trying to be obscene here, but it's because the web
designers didn't use checkboxes that expose themselves, or, perhaps to
put it just a bit more succinctly, expose their state. & it is a royal
pita, & it's not unique to NVDA, though having said thus, sometimes
Jaws actually allows labeling of these graphics, whereas NVDA doesn't.
& it's not an issue specific to Chrome, either. It's actually called a
"clickable element" as opposed to a checkbox. Sighted folks generally
cant distinguish these from standard checkboxes, but they sure create
problems for us.

On 11/15/21, Tyler Zahnke mailto:programmer651@... wrote:
> Hello NVDA community! Why does NVDA not read some checkboxes in Google
> Chrome? NVDA reads a lot of them, but some sites have a "remember me"
> checkbox on their login screen that just says "clickable"; when you
> press Enter where it says clickable, the box checks, but NVDA doesn't
> tell you this. I have seen websites that contain both accessible and
> inaccessible checkboxes, why is this? And several times (I have a
> memory of seeing this on the login screen of Palai), it doesn't read
> some of the checkboxes, such as "remember me", at all. It actually got
> to the point where I thought they had removed the checkbox from their
> site because it completely didn't read it, but users of other devices
> claimed they still saw the checkbox, but several of us Chrome and NVDA
> users noticed the missing checkbox. And as soon as I tried the same
> site with Firefox and NVDA, I saw the checkbox, but it said "remember
> me clickable" and therefore, though you could check and uncheck it,
> NVDA wouldn't tell you, while on Chrome, NVDA skips over the box. This
> was a problem with a website that I actually had to help out as far as
> accessibility; their site had some regular checkboxes on the form and
> screen readers could read it just fine, but then some checkboxes said
> "clickable" or didn't say anything at all, yet the Enter key worked on
> them but the screen reader didn't say. I've probably seen variations
> on this issue for a few years, some checkbox not displaying in Chrome.
> Often I would try it again with Firefox, and at least in the
> checkbox-related cases, it usually worked. And in the case of the
> website I helped make accessible, I even looked at the HTML for the
> checkboxes, and even the inaccessible checkboxes were still coded like
> checkboxes though they may have had some extra styling on them. So
> what's the deal with checkboxes?
>
>
>
>
>
>


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Re: nvda and gmail in basic html

Sarah k Alawami
 

Use standard. They have improved it by leaps and bounds. You can even use the commands if you are in focus mode. Even right click on messages to preform actions.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Michael Micallef at FITA
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 12:33 AM
To: nvda mailing list (nvda@nvda.groups.io) <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] nvda and gmail in basic html
Importance: High

 

Dear NVDA Users,

 

I have a minor difficulty and I sincerely appreciate some help.

 

I'm using the gmail in basic html view and when I try to move between the messages using the up/down arrows, the nvda reports the foll9owing:

 

row 7 column 1

row 8 column 1 etc etc,

 

 

How in the world I can stop NVDA from saying the rows and columns in gmail basic html, as a speech synthesizer i'm using the eloquence.

 

thanks in advance,


Re: Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key

Sarah k Alawami
 

I would open an issue on github as well and see where that gets you. Put in a justifiable use case as well when making the suggestion.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rowen Cary
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2021 9:01 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key

 

This topic has aroused heated discussions, and I may think that this issue is indeed worthy of discussion. In addition, I can use the two keyboard layouts of NVDA proficiently. This theme is only to improve NVDA and make it better. If I offend anyone, I apologize, we can continue the discussion or open an Issue on Github.


Re: NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 07:40 AM, Gene wrote:
At times, one or a small number of people ex;perience something that isn’t the general experience.
-
Single case studies cannot ever be reliably generalized to the world at large.

And those of us who've had to deal with research studies and statistics also know that a lot of care goes into randomly selecting a statistically significant representative sample.  My personal experience is just that, and while I often report it I also expect that it will not be the same for many others.

In the case of computers and software, when you know that untold numbers of people are using a given something or somethings in combination, without issue, and things are wonky for you, that the issue is way more likely to lie with your computer system than anything else.  Major and even minor bugs that cause pretty much the same issue for everyone tend to be heard about on groups such as this one and in the tech press, and even sometimes the popular press.

As a personal example, I use Edge Dev Channel on this laptop.  I also tried to use it on another laptop, where it very frequently crashed.  I know of others using Edge Dev successfully.  That pretty much conclusively points to something specific to my other laptop that is not present (or, perhaps, absent) on the others where Edge Dev works like a champ.  The problem is idiosyncratic, not global, and I'd have to do the tedious diagnostic digging to get to the bottom of what it is that's wrong.  There's nothing for the developers or anyone else (other than perhaps a computer technician that I'd hire) to fix.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 


Re: recent problems using NVDA to read google docs/sheets?

Nimer Jaber
 

I can't say that I have. Does this happen with all sheets, or just a specific sheet? I'm assuming that you have accessibility mode on? Are you using Braille mode, or just screen reader mode?

Thanks.

On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 12:13 AM Sally Kiebdaj <fiddle.pup@...> wrote:
Hi there,

I'm running Google Chrome Version 96.0.4664.45 (Official Build) (64-bit) and NVDA 2021.2.

Pressing escape doesn't help, sorry I didn't mention I had already tried that. 

NVDA announces "application, group" which I don't remember it doing before. However, the focus, according to my sighted partner, is in the spreadsheet cells like usual. 

Has anyone else been seeing something like this?

Thanks!
Sally 

On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 5:01 PM Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@...> wrote:
Hello Sally,

Which browser are you using where this difficulty occurs? Which version of NVDA?

Next time you open a doc, after the doc has loaded, and you can't seem to access it, try pressing esc and let us know what happens.

Thanks.

On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 6:30 AM Sally Kiebdaj <fiddle.pup@...> wrote:
Hello, 

I can no longer read google docs or sheets on my work laptop and noticed that I need to press Tab a few extra times on my personal laptop to focus and read a doc or sheet. However, two weeks ago, I was using google docs and sheets with no problems on either machine. After the page fully loaded and I made sure browse mode was off, my focus was already in the doc or sheet content and I was able to read.

Has anyone experienced new problems reading the contents of google docs or sheets in the last 10 days? 

Does anyone know about recent G Suite updates that might be causing this? 

If not, are there known NVDA settings problems that might be causing this?

I'm not sure how to start troubleshooting this so would welcome all suggestions!

Thanks,
Sally 



--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

Thank you, and have a great day!



--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

Thank you, and have a great day!


Re: NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

Nimer Jaber
 

Steve,

NVDA has options for recreating semi-auto or auto mode as well.

On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 12:55 AM Steve Nutt <steve@...> wrote:

This is where JAWS has the edge.  It has semi auto mode, which means it will behave like NVDA does now, or auto mode, which means that a press of the down arrow from an edit box will switch back on browse mode.

 

All the best


Steve

 

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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 16 November 2021 17:24
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

This discussion illustrates the major flaw in the way automatic switching of modes is implemented.  Modes aren’t automatically switched when you down arrow from forms mode to browse mode.  If you are in forms mode and you up or down arrow, you will remain in forms mode.  Thus, you will not move from where you are.  If you tab you will move and the mode will automatically switch.  This is a built-in bias that encourages tabbing through forms, which is often the behavior you miss content by doing.  I’m not saying that is the intent of the design, but that is an important effect. 

 

To be consistent and not encourage tabbing over arrowing, automatic switching should occur when you up and down arrow as well as when you tab.  Making this change would eliminate my major objection to automatic switching.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2021 11:06 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

Let's see.
I'm in Firefox with NVDA, I just checked my window and it is maximized
(I went into the system menu and maximize is unavailable so that must
mean the window is already maximized). So I scroll down the page.
There's the email address box. Sometimes, when I try to arrow down
past the email address box, it tries to autofill it. So perhaps it's
trying to autofill your password box (it doesn't do this for me). So
maybe your step would be more like this; maybe get out of the password
box input mode, whether NVDA+Space or pressing Escape, either one, so
now you're on the password box without being in it, and then arrow
down, and it reads the word "remember me". Or, if it's easier, arrow
up from the "log in" button.

On 11/16/21, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 11:53 AM, Tyler Zahnke wrote:
>
>>
>> Firefox does not read whether the checkbox is checked or not, it's
>> just the words "remember me" are being read if I arrow down from the
>> password box,
>
> -
> Truly, I am not trying to be difficult, but I do not understand exactly what
> you mean or are doing.  If I'm sitting in the password box, in Firefox,
> using down arrow does not get me out of that box.
>
> There is something specific about the exact sequence of steps you are using
> that I am not hitting upon in my experimentation.  I can't replicate the
> success you've had even with just the announcement of "Remember Me" unless I
> use "the sighted way" with the mouse.  I'd like to be able to replicate your
> experience for my own education, and how you do this may be relevant to
> other situations.
> --
>
> Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043
>
> *The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.*
>
> ~ John F. Kennedy
>
>
>
>
>
>





--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

Thank you, and have a great day!


NVDA speechless on the enter key in Wordpad

Mani Iyer
 

Hello all,
Having worked on the Mac with Voiceover for many years, I am a newbie to Windows and NVDA which I am learning through the user guide and enjoying it.
A RTF editor is a must for what I do and I chose Wordpad (I will welcome ideas for any better NVDA-accessible and free editors). I don’t know what setting would make NVDA speak the enter key whenever I move to a new line. Setting the ‘Speak commands’ option on does speak it but speaks all other commands I press in the process.

Any help will be appreciated. Thanks,.

Warmly,
Mani


Re: Enable editing on an attachment

Tony Ballou
 

Hi,
Try this.  Press alt followed by the letters f then I and e in succession. That should do the trick. Hope this helps.

Tony


On Nov 17, 2021, at 5:37 AM, Jo Collingwood via groups.io <jo.thorpesalvin@...> wrote:

Hi can anyone tell me what is the short cut to 'enable editing' on a word document please when you have received an attachment via Outlook 365
Thanks


Re: nvda and gmail in basic html

Chris Smart
 

Press NVDA+CTRL+D to adjust document formatting settings.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Michael Micallef at FITA
Sent: November 17, 2021 3:33 AM
To: nvda mailing list (nvda@nvda.groups.io) <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] nvda and gmail in basic html
Importance: High

 

Dear NVDA Users,

 

I have a minor difficulty and I sincerely appreciate some help.

 

I'm using the gmail in basic html view and when I try to move between the messages using the up/down arrows, the nvda reports the foll9owing:

 

row 7 column 1

row 8 column 1 etc etc,

 

 

How in the world I can stop NVDA from saying the rows and columns in gmail basic html, as a speech synthesizer i'm using the eloquence.

 

thanks in advance,


Re: nvda and gmail in basic html

Gene
 

To stop hearing table announcements, open document formatting, control NVDA key d, and tab through the items.  You will come to a section for table settings.  Uncheck every check box related to tables.  Press the ok button. 
 
If you want, you can have a profile that will have these settings off so you can use that profile when you are working in G-Mail and you can then go back to the settings for tables you are currently using by not using the profile.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 2:33 AM
Subject: [nvda] nvda and gmail in basic html
 

Dear NVDA Users,

 

I have a minor difficulty and I sincerely appreciate some help.

 

I'm using the gmail in basic html view and when I try to move between the messages using the up/down arrows, the nvda reports the foll9owing:

 

row 7 column 1

row 8 column 1 etc etc,

 

 

How in the world I can stop NVDA from saying the rows and columns in gmail basic html, as a speech synthesizer i'm using the eloquence.

 

thanks in advance,


Re: nvda and gmail in basic html

Tyler Zahnke <programmer651@...>
 

This is about the way NVDA reads tables. In the NVDA menu, go to
preferences and then settings, there is a section of setting called
document formatting. If you tab a lot, there is a table section, where
you can uncheck tables, rows, columns, things like that.

On 11/17/21, Michael Micallef at FITA <michael.micallef@...> wrote:
Dear NVDA Users,

I have a minor difficulty and I sincerely appreciate some help.

I'm using the gmail in basic html view and when I try to move between the
messages using the up/down arrows, the nvda reports the foll9owing:

row 7 column 1
row 8 column 1 etc etc,


How in the world I can stop NVDA from saying the rows and columns in gmail
basic html, as a speech synthesizer i'm using the eloquence.

thanks in advance,






Re: NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

Gene
 

It isn’t subjective if enough people report better performance with a certain browser who have compared performance with various browsers.  Your experience may not be subjective for you.  It may be objective that, if you have compared enough PDF files in enough different browsers to determine that this or that browser works the best on your machine, that that is an objective fact on that machine.  But enough others would have to verify that they expderience the same thing to conclude that that is a general behavior.  That’s because this or that system may give different results and it may not be the general results.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Nutt
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 2:48 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome
 

I prefer Chrome for PDF files, but again, it’s subjective.

 

Chrome seems to expose headings better than Edge on the PDFs I’ve tried.

 

All the best


Steve

 

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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 16 November 2021 16:34
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

I’ll add that even if I use Firefox as my main browser, I’ll still use Edge to read PDF files.  I haven’t done any systematic comparison but there are some people who say that Edge does better reading them. 

 

I recently tried reading one PDF file in Firefox and there were problems where words were joined together at times.  Perhaps line breaks weren’t recognized.  But Edge read the document properly.  That’s just one example but that, and the comments I’ve seen on the subject lead me to believe that it may well be that Edge may read PDF files better than other browsers. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2021 10:13 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

I’d be interested in whether others find it slow.  This may just be my experience, but Firefox seems to me to be much faster than it used to be.  I’ve started using it a lot more and I’m considering using it as my main browser.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Steve Nutt

Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2021 3:32 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

It’s just a shame that Firefox is so slow compared with Chrome, certainly on all my machines it is.

 

All the best


Steve

 

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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Sackrider
Sent: 16 November 2021 00:10
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

        I have an example of whear fire fox will and nvda will see somthng but chrome brousers don't.  The audio of the lions magazine in both edge and chrome there is no down it all button but in fire fox there is a down it all button.  I am not surprised about other things that fire fox sees that chrome brousers don't this is why I say that for the blind chrome based brousers are kind of usless junk and this is the reason that I use internet explorer for as long as I did as it was not a chrome based brouser.  I have windows 11 and there is no more internet explorer so I had to find a nonchrome based brouser and thats why i am using fire fox as my default brouser.

Brian Sackrider

On 11/15/2021 5:12 PM, Gene wrote:

I am increasingly finding cases where Firefox either sees things or does things that Chrome doesn’t when used with NVDA.  I don’t use JAWS and my demo is far too old to evaluate whether the same things occur.  But I think the question of whether Chrome-based browsers are working properly with sites in terms of accessibility should be systematically addressed.

 

Here are two examples:

First is this article from The New York Times;.

If you are at the top of the page and press s to move by separator, you will immediately move to cards giving background information on the story.

In Firefox, you see, at the end of the card, a button for previous card, unavailable since you are on the first card, and a button for next card.

Activating this button works.  It moves you to the next card.

To easily get to this card in a proper position to read it, press page up, then s for separator.

The previous and next card buttons both work correctly for this card and, I assume, for all other cards.

 

I tested with Chrome and Brave and neither of these Chrome-based browsers saw either button. I could read the first card below the separator but no buttons are displayed.


I’ve recently been looking up material on occasion using the Encyclopedia Britannica online.  When reading with Firefox, the page being read automatically shows new material as you move down it.  Firefox shows this new material when it appears.  Chrome-based browsers don’t. 

This article is an example:

 

Search from the top of the page for the word nervous.  If you down arrow in Firefox, the text continues after some items, perhaps three or four.  Chrome-based browsers don’t load new material at least not accessibly to screen-readers.

 

Chrome-based browsers don’t see comments on Youtube pages where videos are streamed.  Firefox does.  Because the page changes as you move down it, you have to move down the page to see the comments.  You can’t just search for the word comment to get to the section.

 

I’ll add that all these comments are for my specific machine but I expect they will be generally experienced.  Verification, however, is necessary.

 

Are these problems with Chrome, with NVDA, or both?  I suspect that these problems are not improper implementation of accessibility.  Those questions, however, would require technically knowledgeable investigation to be resolved.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Gene

Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 11:00 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

Since Firefox sees the checkboxes, I don’t know that its valid to assume what the problem is and that it is improper design.  Also, there may be cases where you will hear explanatory text that accompanies a structure read if you tab into the structure rather than move to it in some other way.  I haven’t compared Chrome-based and not Chrome-based browsers in these cases but again, is this improper design or just the complexity of design?

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Jackie

Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 10:55 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

Yeah well, I'm not trying to be obscene here, but it's because the web
designers didn't use checkboxes that expose themselves, or, perhaps to
put it just a bit more succinctly, expose their state. & it is a royal
pita, & it's not unique to NVDA, though having said thus, sometimes
Jaws actually allows labeling of these graphics, whereas NVDA doesn't.
& it's not an issue specific to Chrome, either. It's actually called a
"clickable element" as opposed to a checkbox. Sighted folks generally
cant distinguish these from standard checkboxes, but they sure create
problems for us.

On 11/15/21, Tyler Zahnke mailto:programmer651@... wrote:
> Hello NVDA community! Why does NVDA not read some checkboxes in Google
> Chrome? NVDA reads a lot of them, but some sites have a "remember me"
> checkbox on their login screen that just says "clickable"; when you
> press Enter where it says clickable, the box checks, but NVDA doesn't
> tell you this. I have seen websites that contain both accessible and
> inaccessible checkboxes, why is this? And several times (I have a
> memory of seeing this on the login screen of Palai), it doesn't read
> some of the checkboxes, such as "remember me", at all. It actually got
> to the point where I thought they had removed the checkbox from their
> site because it completely didn't read it, but users of other devices
> claimed they still saw the checkbox, but several of us Chrome and NVDA
> users noticed the missing checkbox. And as soon as I tried the same
> site with Firefox and NVDA, I saw the checkbox, but it said "remember
> me clickable" and therefore, though you could check and uncheck it,
> NVDA wouldn't tell you, while on Chrome, NVDA skips over the box. This
> was a problem with a website that I actually had to help out as far as
> accessibility; their site had some regular checkboxes on the form and
> screen readers could read it just fine, but then some checkboxes said
> "clickable" or didn't say anything at all, yet the Enter key worked on
> them but the screen reader didn't say. I've probably seen variations
> on this issue for a few years, some checkbox not displaying in Chrome.
> Often I would try it again with Firefox, and at least in the
> checkbox-related cases, it usually worked. And in the case of the
> website I helped make accessible, I even looked at the HTML for the
> checkboxes, and even the inaccessible checkboxes were still coded like
> checkboxes though they may have had some extra styling on them. So
> what's the deal with checkboxes?
>
>
>
>
>
>


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Re: NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

Gene
 

I’m not saying what you are saying isn’t correct on your system.  I’m saying that to conclude that it is generally true, enough people would have to report the same behavior to establish that it is a genheral or reasonably frequently occurring behavior on different systems. 
 
At times, one or a small number of people ex;perience something that isn’t the general experience.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Nutt
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 2:44 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome
 

I find it considerably slower than Chrome on many websites. But I have no scientific evidence to back it up.

 

All the best


Steve

 

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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 16 November 2021 16:13
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

I’d be interested in whether others find it slow.  This may just be my experience, but Firefox seems to me to be much faster than it used to be.  I’ve started using it a lot more and I’m considering using it as my main browser.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Steve Nutt

Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2021 3:32 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

It’s just a shame that Firefox is so slow compared with Chrome, certainly on all my machines it is.

 

All the best


Steve

 

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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Sackrider
Sent: 16 November 2021 00:10
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

        I have an example of whear fire fox will and nvda will see somthng but chrome brousers don't.  The audio of the lions magazine in both edge and chrome there is no down it all button but in fire fox there is a down it all button.  I am not surprised about other things that fire fox sees that chrome brousers don't this is why I say that for the blind chrome based brousers are kind of usless junk and this is the reason that I use internet explorer for as long as I did as it was not a chrome based brouser.  I have windows 11 and there is no more internet explorer so I had to find a nonchrome based brouser and thats why i am using fire fox as my default brouser.

Brian Sackrider

On 11/15/2021 5:12 PM, Gene wrote:

I am increasingly finding cases where Firefox either sees things or does things that Chrome doesn’t when used with NVDA.  I don’t use JAWS and my demo is far too old to evaluate whether the same things occur.  But I think the question of whether Chrome-based browsers are working properly with sites in terms of accessibility should be systematically addressed.

 

Here are two examples:

First is this article from The New York Times;.

If you are at the top of the page and press s to move by separator, you will immediately move to cards giving background information on the story.

In Firefox, you see, at the end of the card, a button for previous card, unavailable since you are on the first card, and a button for next card.

Activating this button works.  It moves you to the next card.

To easily get to this card in a proper position to read it, press page up, then s for separator.

The previous and next card buttons both work correctly for this card and, I assume, for all other cards.

 

I tested with Chrome and Brave and neither of these Chrome-based browsers saw either button. I could read the first card below the separator but no buttons are displayed.


I’ve recently been looking up material on occasion using the Encyclopedia Britannica online.  When reading with Firefox, the page being read automatically shows new material as you move down it.  Firefox shows this new material when it appears.  Chrome-based browsers don’t. 

This article is an example:

 

Search from the top of the page for the word nervous.  If you down arrow in Firefox, the text continues after some items, perhaps three or four.  Chrome-based browsers don’t load new material at least not accessibly to screen-readers.

 

Chrome-based browsers don’t see comments on Youtube pages where videos are streamed.  Firefox does.  Because the page changes as you move down it, you have to move down the page to see the comments.  You can’t just search for the word comment to get to the section.

 

I’ll add that all these comments are for my specific machine but I expect they will be generally experienced.  Verification, however, is necessary.

 

Are these problems with Chrome, with NVDA, or both?  I suspect that these problems are not improper implementation of accessibility.  Those questions, however, would require technically knowledgeable investigation to be resolved.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Gene

Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 11:00 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

Since Firefox sees the checkboxes, I don’t know that its valid to assume what the problem is and that it is improper design.  Also, there may be cases where you will hear explanatory text that accompanies a structure read if you tab into the structure rather than move to it in some other way.  I haven’t compared Chrome-based and not Chrome-based browsers in these cases but again, is this improper design or just the complexity of design?

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Jackie

Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 10:55 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

Yeah well, I'm not trying to be obscene here, but it's because the web
designers didn't use checkboxes that expose themselves, or, perhaps to
put it just a bit more succinctly, expose their state. & it is a royal
pita, & it's not unique to NVDA, though having said thus, sometimes
Jaws actually allows labeling of these graphics, whereas NVDA doesn't.
& it's not an issue specific to Chrome, either. It's actually called a
"clickable element" as opposed to a checkbox. Sighted folks generally
cant distinguish these from standard checkboxes, but they sure create
problems for us.

On 11/15/21, Tyler Zahnke mailto:programmer651@... wrote:
> Hello NVDA community! Why does NVDA not read some checkboxes in Google
> Chrome? NVDA reads a lot of them, but some sites have a "remember me"
> checkbox on their login screen that just says "clickable"; when you
> press Enter where it says clickable, the box checks, but NVDA doesn't
> tell you this. I have seen websites that contain both accessible and
> inaccessible checkboxes, why is this? And several times (I have a
> memory of seeing this on the login screen of Palai), it doesn't read
> some of the checkboxes, such as "remember me", at all. It actually got
> to the point where I thought they had removed the checkbox from their
> site because it completely didn't read it, but users of other devices
> claimed they still saw the checkbox, but several of us Chrome and NVDA
> users noticed the missing checkbox. And as soon as I tried the same
> site with Firefox and NVDA, I saw the checkbox, but it said "remember
> me clickable" and therefore, though you could check and uncheck it,
> NVDA wouldn't tell you, while on Chrome, NVDA skips over the box. This
> was a problem with a website that I actually had to help out as far as
> accessibility; their site had some regular checkboxes on the form and
> screen readers could read it just fine, but then some checkboxes said
> "clickable" or didn't say anything at all, yet the Enter key worked on
> them but the screen reader didn't say. I've probably seen variations
> on this issue for a few years, some checkbox not displaying in Chrome.
> Often I would try it again with Firefox, and at least in the
> checkbox-related cases, it usually worked. And in the case of the
> website I helped make accessible, I even looked at the HTML for the
> checkboxes, and even the inaccessible checkboxes were still coded like
> checkboxes though they may have had some extra styling on them. So
> what's the deal with checkboxes?
>
>
>
>
>
>


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Re: Repeat the text read aloud

Rui Fontes
 

You must use the speechHistory add-on.


Rui Fontes


Às 11:40 de 17/11/2021, juergenkohler23@... escreveu:

Hello all,
 
I have a question: Is it possible to have text read out again in NVDA? Is there a repeat button, so to speak?
 
Thank you very much and best regards!

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