Date   

Re: NVDA speechless on the enter key in Wordpad

Sarah k Alawami
 

You can create a profile just  for wordpad. Give that a try. I use profiles for certain apps and they work well.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mani Iyer via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 9:49 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA speechless on the enter key in Wordpad

 

Hello Gene,

I wouldn’t mind having the “Speak commands’ turned on when in Wordpad but elsewhere it gets annoying! I wish there was a command to quickly turn ‘Speak commands’ on and off.

Well if not, I will have to get used to the silence. :)

 

Mani

 



On Nov 17, 2021, at 12:42 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

 

NVDA doesn’t speak any command keys by default.  You already know what happens when you turn speak command keys on. 

 

You may find that you quickly get used to not hearing enter.  You may expect it since you evidently have heard it in the past but giving not hearing it a chance for perhaps a few days or a week may get you used to not hearing it and it may not matter any longer.

 

I believe the option should be available.  People should be able to choose which command keys they hear, but since I know of no way they can, if you get used to not hearing it quickly, the problem may not matter shortly.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 10:52 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA speechless on the enter key in Wordpad

 

Good to hear from you again after a long time. :)
Thank you Sarah. But you have no idea as to why NVDA does not speak the enter key on Wordpad?

Mani


> On Nov 17, 2021, at 11:25 AM, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:
>
> I recommend Jarte. It is no longer being made, but it is one of my favorite programs to use for an RTF editor and a docx  viewer.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mani Iyer via groups.io
> Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 7:56 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: [nvda] NVDA speechless on the enter key in Wordpad
>
> Hello all,
> Having worked on the Mac with Voiceover for many years, I am a newbie to Windows and NVDA which I am learning through the user guide and enjoying it.
> A RTF editor is a must for what I do and I chose Wordpad (I will welcome ideas for any better NVDA-accessible and free editors).  I don’t know what setting would make NVDA speak the enter key whenever I move to a new line. Setting the ‘Speak commands’ option on does speak it but speaks all other commands I press in the process.
>
> Any help will be appreciated. Thanks,.
>
> Warmly,
> Mani
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>




 


Re: recent problems using NVDA to read google docs/sheets?

mike mcglashon
 

Hi my friend:

 

Please do not think of me as ignorant, but,

What is “braille mode”,

What does it do, and,

How does one get to it?

 

 

 

Please advise as you like.

 

Mike M.

 

Mike mcglashon

Email: Michael.mcglashon@...

Ph: 618 783 9331

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 5:36 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] recent problems using NVDA to read google docs/sheets?

 

Hello,

 

I am not sure what the issue you're experiencing is, but I highly recommend turning on Braille mode, at this point, as it will generally provide a better accessibility experience, even if you are not using a Braille display.

 

Thanks.

 

On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 2:26 PM Sally Kiebdaj <fiddle.pup@...> wrote:

All docs and sheets regardless of owner or privileges and yes, accessibility is turned on. I am only using the screen reader, not braille.

Thanks,
Sally

 

On Wed, Nov 17, 2021, 17:12 Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@...> wrote:

I can't say that I have. Does this happen with all sheets, or just a specific sheet? I'm assuming that you have accessibility mode on? Are you using Braille mode, or just screen reader mode?

 

Thanks.

 

On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 12:13 AM Sally Kiebdaj <fiddle.pup@...> wrote:

Hi there,

 

I'm running Google Chrome Version 96.0.4664.45 (Official Build) (64-bit) and NVDA 2021.2.

 

Pressing escape doesn't help, sorry I didn't mention I had already tried that. 

 

NVDA announces "application, group" which I don't remember it doing before. However, the focus, according to my sighted partner, is in the spreadsheet cells like usual. 

 

Has anyone else been seeing something like this?

 

Thanks!

Sally 

 

On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 5:01 PM Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@...> wrote:

Hello Sally,

 

Which browser are you using where this difficulty occurs? Which version of NVDA?

 

Next time you open a doc, after the doc has loaded, and you can't seem to access it, try pressing esc and let us know what happens.

 

Thanks.

 

On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 6:30 AM Sally Kiebdaj <fiddle.pup@...> wrote:

Hello, 

 

I can no longer read google docs or sheets on my work laptop and noticed that I need to press Tab a few extra times on my personal laptop to focus and read a doc or sheet. However, two weeks ago, I was using google docs and sheets with no problems on either machine. After the page fully loaded and I made sure browse mode was off, my focus was already in the doc or sheet content and I was able to read.

 

Has anyone experienced new problems reading the contents of google docs or sheets in the last 10 days? 

 

Does anyone know about recent G Suite updates that might be causing this? 

 

If not, are there known NVDA settings problems that might be causing this?

 

I'm not sure how to start troubleshooting this so would welcome all suggestions!

 

Thanks,

Sally 


 

--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

Thank you, and have a great day!


 

--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

Thank you, and have a great day!


 

--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

Thank you, and have a great day!


Re: recent problems using NVDA to read google docs/sheets?

Nimer Jaber
 

Hello,

I am not sure what the issue you're experiencing is, but I highly recommend turning on Braille mode, at this point, as it will generally provide a better accessibility experience, even if you are not using a Braille display.

Thanks.

On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 2:26 PM Sally Kiebdaj <fiddle.pup@...> wrote:

All docs and sheets regardless of owner or privileges and yes, accessibility is turned on. I am only using the screen reader, not braille.

Thanks,
Sally


On Wed, Nov 17, 2021, 17:12 Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@...> wrote:
I can't say that I have. Does this happen with all sheets, or just a specific sheet? I'm assuming that you have accessibility mode on? Are you using Braille mode, or just screen reader mode?

Thanks.

On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 12:13 AM Sally Kiebdaj <fiddle.pup@...> wrote:
Hi there,

I'm running Google Chrome Version 96.0.4664.45 (Official Build) (64-bit) and NVDA 2021.2.

Pressing escape doesn't help, sorry I didn't mention I had already tried that. 

NVDA announces "application, group" which I don't remember it doing before. However, the focus, according to my sighted partner, is in the spreadsheet cells like usual. 

Has anyone else been seeing something like this?

Thanks!
Sally 

On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 5:01 PM Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@...> wrote:
Hello Sally,

Which browser are you using where this difficulty occurs? Which version of NVDA?

Next time you open a doc, after the doc has loaded, and you can't seem to access it, try pressing esc and let us know what happens.

Thanks.

On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 6:30 AM Sally Kiebdaj <fiddle.pup@...> wrote:
Hello, 

I can no longer read google docs or sheets on my work laptop and noticed that I need to press Tab a few extra times on my personal laptop to focus and read a doc or sheet. However, two weeks ago, I was using google docs and sheets with no problems on either machine. After the page fully loaded and I made sure browse mode was off, my focus was already in the doc or sheet content and I was able to read.

Has anyone experienced new problems reading the contents of google docs or sheets in the last 10 days? 

Does anyone know about recent G Suite updates that might be causing this? 

If not, are there known NVDA settings problems that might be causing this?

I'm not sure how to start troubleshooting this so would welcome all suggestions!

Thanks,
Sally 



--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

Thank you, and have a great day!



--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

Thank you, and have a great day!



--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

Thank you, and have a great day!


Re: recent problems using NVDA to read google docs/sheets?

Sally Kiebdaj
 

All docs and sheets regardless of owner or privileges and yes, accessibility is turned on. I am only using the screen reader, not braille.

Thanks,
Sally


On Wed, Nov 17, 2021, 17:12 Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@...> wrote:
I can't say that I have. Does this happen with all sheets, or just a specific sheet? I'm assuming that you have accessibility mode on? Are you using Braille mode, or just screen reader mode?

Thanks.

On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 12:13 AM Sally Kiebdaj <fiddle.pup@...> wrote:
Hi there,

I'm running Google Chrome Version 96.0.4664.45 (Official Build) (64-bit) and NVDA 2021.2.

Pressing escape doesn't help, sorry I didn't mention I had already tried that. 

NVDA announces "application, group" which I don't remember it doing before. However, the focus, according to my sighted partner, is in the spreadsheet cells like usual. 

Has anyone else been seeing something like this?

Thanks!
Sally 

On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 5:01 PM Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@...> wrote:
Hello Sally,

Which browser are you using where this difficulty occurs? Which version of NVDA?

Next time you open a doc, after the doc has loaded, and you can't seem to access it, try pressing esc and let us know what happens.

Thanks.

On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 6:30 AM Sally Kiebdaj <fiddle.pup@...> wrote:
Hello, 

I can no longer read google docs or sheets on my work laptop and noticed that I need to press Tab a few extra times on my personal laptop to focus and read a doc or sheet. However, two weeks ago, I was using google docs and sheets with no problems on either machine. After the page fully loaded and I made sure browse mode was off, my focus was already in the doc or sheet content and I was able to read.

Has anyone experienced new problems reading the contents of google docs or sheets in the last 10 days? 

Does anyone know about recent G Suite updates that might be causing this? 

If not, are there known NVDA settings problems that might be causing this?

I'm not sure how to start troubleshooting this so would welcome all suggestions!

Thanks,
Sally 



--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

Thank you, and have a great day!



--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

Thank you, and have a great day!


Re: NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

Gene
 

I’m curious why it was hard to understand.  Is it that being used to there being no cursor on web pages, the idea somehow didn’t make sense? 
 
From my perspective, never seeing a cursor anywhere but moving through documents in the same way, virtual cursor or not, the concept made immediate sense to me because it made web pages usable in the same way as documents had been before. 
 
I intellectually know about the cursor but I think of where I am in a document as where I’ve moved to if I’m moving, the word or carachter I hear.  I very seldom think of a cursor actually moving.  Sometimes, the ways blind and sighted people think about things are so taken for granted by each person that interesting differences aren’t properly realized.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome
 
On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 02:11 PM, Nimer Jaber wrote:
I know that there will be disagreement on this, and my view comes from working with a variety of individuals as a tech trainer, who are already confused about thde various modes and cursors.
-
I cannot tell you how long it took me to grasp the very idea of the virtual cursor.  When I did, a whole bunch of things fell into place all at once, but it took a long while to get there.

As someone who has also worked with a variety of individuals as a tech trainer, and not disgreeing with you, either, almost all of them will be confused to some extent about the various modes and cursors, and it seems to be worse at times if they're coming from JAWS (or any of several other now-defunct screen readers) to NVDA or vice-versa.

Learning the initial concepts and behaviors of a given screen reader is difficult enough, but once you have a set of expectations "built in" from prior experience, doing the shifts when moving to another, even when those may be small, sometimes precisely because they're so small and few, can be one of the most challenging aspects.

There just is no way to ever have something that pleases everyone, no matter what settings are chosen as defaults.  And people, including myself, will often have vigorous disagreements over which behaviors they believe should be defaults that are now not.  But when and if those change, the general pattern of someone being displeased and arguing either for "the old way" or something new that's not "the current way," will continue to occur.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 


Re: Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key

Gene
 

That’s true of either insert key if they are set to be used by NVDA.  You can have neither one set to be used as an NVDA key.
 
I don’t know how many people realize that by default, both insert keys function as NVDA keys.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key
 

Hi

Perhaps you may also like to add the extended insert key to the use case as, when designated as a NVDA modifier, also requires a double keypress to be used as the Insert key.

 

Cheers

Chris 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: 17 November 2021 16:21
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key

 

I would open an issue on github as well and see where that gets you. Put in a justifiable use case as well when making the suggestion.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rowen Cary
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2021 9:01 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key

 

This topic has aroused heated discussions, and I may think that this issue is indeed worthy of discussion. In addition, I can use the two keyboard layouts of NVDA proficiently. This theme is only to improve NVDA and make it better. If I offend anyone, I apologize, we can continue the discussion or open an Issue on Github.

 


Re: NVDA speechless on the enter key in Wordpad

Sarah k Alawami
 

I have no earthly idea. My enter key never speaks as I don't want it to. Is this what you want? If not ther is no way to turn on just the enter key to speak, I don't think.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mani Iyer via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 8:52 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA speechless on the enter key in Wordpad

Good to hear from you again after a long time. :) Thank you Sarah. But you have no idea as to why NVDA does not speak the enter key on Wordpad?

Mani


On Nov 17, 2021, at 11:25 AM, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:

I recommend Jarte. It is no longer being made, but it is one of my favorite programs to use for an RTF editor and a docx viewer.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mani Iyer
via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 7:56 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA speechless on the enter key in Wordpad

Hello all,
Having worked on the Mac with Voiceover for many years, I am a newbie to Windows and NVDA which I am learning through the user guide and enjoying it.
A RTF editor is a must for what I do and I chose Wordpad (I will welcome ideas for any better NVDA-accessible and free editors). I don’t know what setting would make NVDA speak the enter key whenever I move to a new line. Setting the ‘Speak commands’ option on does speak it but speaks all other commands I press in the process.

Any help will be appreciated. Thanks,.

Warmly,
Mani












Re: Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key

Sarah k Alawami
 

A friend of mine told me (if it doesn’t exist on github, then the issue doesn’t exist.” So I make it a habit  to report issues for this paritcuar program I use coded by my friend on bithub, if I can anyway.

 

Happy Wednesday.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 8:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key

 

On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 11:21 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

I would open an issue on github as well and see where that gets you. Put in a justifiable use case as well when making the suggestion.

-
I absolutely agree on both points.

This group, while incredibly useful, and occasionally read by the NVDA developers, is not the official mechanism for issue reporting nor for feature requests.  While you may want to flesh out whether something you want is something others might want, and how many others, along with additional details via discussion here, you still need to "make it official" by using GitHub.

One of the things I really love about NVDA is that end-users have actual access to the project management software that is used for the development of NVDA (along with untold thousands of other projects) and they encourage you to use it to communicate with the development team.  Yes, you have to learn its quirks, and how to use the reporting template (which, by the way, I've created an MS-Word Fillable Form for if you find doing the initial data entry easier that way), but you are still ending up with something in the queue to be reviewed.

Just be aware as well that "in the queue to be reviewed" doesn't always lead to actual implementation.  Even when something is implemented, it can take several years if it's a low-priority change.

Creating an Issue in GitHub for NVDA
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 


Re: NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 02:11 PM, Nimer Jaber wrote:
I know that there will be disagreement on this, and my view comes from working with a variety of individuals as a tech trainer, who are already confused about thde various modes and cursors.
-
I cannot tell you how long it took me to grasp the very idea of the virtual cursor.  When I did, a whole bunch of things fell into place all at once, but it took a long while to get there.

As someone who has also worked with a variety of individuals as a tech trainer, and not disgreeing with you, either, almost all of them will be confused to some extent about the various modes and cursors, and it seems to be worse at times if they're coming from JAWS (or any of several other now-defunct screen readers) to NVDA or vice-versa.

Learning the initial concepts and behaviors of a given screen reader is difficult enough, but once you have a set of expectations "built in" from prior experience, doing the shifts when moving to another, even when those may be small, sometimes precisely because they're so small and few, can be one of the most challenging aspects.

There just is no way to ever have something that pleases everyone, no matter what settings are chosen as defaults.  And people, including myself, will often have vigorous disagreements over which behaviors they believe should be defaults that are now not.  But when and if those change, the general pattern of someone being displeased and arguing either for "the old way" or something new that's not "the current way," will continue to occur.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 


Re: Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key

Chris Mullins
 

Hi

Perhaps you may also like to add the extended insert key to the use case as, when designated as a NVDA modifier, also requires a double keypress to be used as the Insert key.

 

Cheers

Chris  

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: 17 November 2021 16:21
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key

 

I would open an issue on github as well and see where that gets you. Put in a justifiable use case as well when making the suggestion.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rowen Cary
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2021 9:01 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Improvements to the caps lock key and the NVDA key

 

This topic has aroused heated discussions, and I may think that this issue is indeed worthy of discussion. In addition, I can use the two keyboard layouts of NVDA proficiently. This theme is only to improve NVDA and make it better. If I offend anyone, I apologize, we can continue the discussion or open an Issue on Github.

 


Re: NVDA speechless on the enter key in Wordpad

Gene
 

If you don’t mind hearing all the commands spoken, you can set up a profile that would automatically turn them on in Wordpad or the specific editor you want to use.  I haven’t worked with profiles to any extent so I’ll let others discuss them.  But the profile can be made to function automatically when you run a specific editor.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA speechless on the enter key in Wordpad
 
Hello Gene,
I wouldn’t mind having the “Speak commands’ turned on when in Wordpad but elsewhere it gets annoying! I wish there was a command to quickly turn ‘Speak commands’ on and off.
Well if not, I will have to get used to the silence. :)
 
Mani
 

On Nov 17, 2021, at 12:42 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
 
NVDA doesn’t speak any command keys by default.  You already know what happens when you turn speak command keys on. 
 
You may find that you quickly get used to not hearing enter.  You may expect it since you evidently have heard it in the past but giving not hearing it a chance for perhaps a few days or a week may get you used to not hearing it and it may not matter any longer.
 
I believe the option should be available.  People should be able to choose which command keys they hear, but since I know of no way they can, if you get used to not hearing it quickly, the problem may not matter shortly.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA speechless on the enter key in Wordpad
 
Good to hear from you again after a long time. :)
Thank you Sarah. But you have no idea as to why NVDA does not speak the enter key on Wordpad?

Mani


> On Nov 17, 2021, at 11:25 AM, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:
>
> I recommend Jarte. It is no longer being made, but it is one of my favorite programs to use for an RTF editor and a docx  viewer.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mani Iyer via groups.io
> Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 7:56 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: [nvda] NVDA speechless on the enter key in Wordpad
>
> Hello all,
> Having worked on the Mac with Voiceover for many years, I am a newbie to Windows and NVDA which I am learning through the user guide and enjoying it.
> A RTF editor is a must for what I do and I chose Wordpad (I will welcome ideas for any better NVDA-accessible and free editors).  I don’t know what setting would make NVDA speak the enter key whenever I move to a new line. Setting the ‘Speak commands’ option on does speak it but speaks all other commands I press in the process.
>
> Any help will be appreciated. Thanks,.
>
> Warmly,
> Mani
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>





 


Re: NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

Gene
 

Brian and all
 
I’m glad you think I made good points.  I’m not assuming you agree with them but I am glad you think they are worth considering..
 
I didn’t find any issue that deals with this and I submitted one.  Those interested can read and comment on it here:
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 11:33 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome
 
On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 12:25 PM, Gene wrote:
My objection is the default behavior of NVDA.  It should move you out of an edit field by default when you arrow.
-
Gene,

Have you ever checked to see whether an issue exists for this already on GitHub, or thought about creating one yourself?

You make good points.  That doesn't mean that they'll necessarily be accepted at NVAccess, but I feel rather certain that they'd get due consideration.

But this is not the place to make arguments for change that have any chance whatsoever at implementation.  That's never been the purpose of this group.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 


Re: NVDA speechless on the enter key in Wordpad

benmoxey@...
 

Hi Mani

 

Note that you can also toggle the speaking of command keys on or off at any time by pressing NVDA + 4 (on the number row).

 

Cheers

 

Ben

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mani Iyer via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, 18 November 2021 5:43 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA speechless on the enter key in Wordpad

 

Thank you for the nice tip, Brian. I will certainly try this.

 

mani



On Nov 17, 2021, at 12:57 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

 

On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 12:49 PM, Mani Iyer wrote:

I wish there was a command to quickly turn ‘Speak commands’ on and off.

-
Or you could just create an configuration profile for WordPad where you have NVDA Speak Commands enabled with automatic triggering.  Then this automatically comes on if and only if WordPad has focus, and is not on elsewhere.

Configuration profiles are great for this purpose.  Bring up the NVDA User Guide in your browser, NVDA + N, H, U, and read through section 12.4 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

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Re: NVDA not reading windows menu

Jackie
 

Jo, when requesting support, it's helpful to provide the following information:
1) What is the brand, model number, disc space (used and free), &
memory of the computer in question.
2) What is the version of the operating system, including build;
3) What is the version of any adaptive technology(ies) being used? (I
know in this case it's NVDA, but version?). Others?
4) What steps have you tried, if any, to remediate the problem?
5) What error messages, if any, are you receiving?

Was the update to Windows 10 a clean install or an in-place upgrade?

Sometimes it's also helpful in these cases to inform us regarding the
settings under 'Ease of Access' ie, whether or not reduce animations
and other accessibility settings are checked.

Also, are any addons being run w/NVDA? If so, it's always good policy
to disable these & see if the problem goes away. Does Narrator act
similarly?

Right now my current suspicion is that it was an in-place upgrade
that's exhibiting some sort of incompatibility, but that's just a WAG
& could change w/additional information you provide.

On 11/17/21, hurrikennyandopo ... <hurrikennyandopo@...> wrote:
Hi


Could you check the following.


I am guessing there are windows sounds you can hear.


Could I ask which version of nvda  are they running it can be found
under the help then about section of nvda.



While nvda is running can you press the nvda key + ctrl key + the letter
S this should bring up the select synthesizer menu.


Nvda should land on a synthesizer if it says no no speech arrow up to
say windows one core voice or e speak and see if that fixes the problem


Wondering if the synth package you are using has crashed or may not no
longer work with the latest version. What synth were they using? if it
says it when you bring up the menu.


If it does say a synth then try the one below.


The second thing also while it is running is hit the nvda key + the
letter S and get it to toggle from if off to beeps then talk.


Gene  nz


On 17/11/2021 11:33 pm, Jo Collingwood via groups.io wrote:
Hi, I have a students laptop that has just been updated to windows 10
and now when she presses the windows key and types in the search box,
NVDA doesn't read, if she then uses the arrow keys to move through the
list NVDA doesn't read. Once a program has opened it works fine! I
would be grateful for any suggestions please as this is frustrating
for the student.




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Re: History of NVDA add-ons

 

Not sure, I started when it was nvda 415 and maybe earlier.

Initially it was not much better than narator.

Obviously it used all the internal components.

You can use it for the most part without addons.

And if all you want is brousing the net, using thunderbird or other email and or just standard windows even 10 you could do it without addons for the most part.

In fact for windows xp which was when it was created you really didn't need addons at all.

Later on especially after windows 7 there were features others wanted that well didn't make it in the final release.

It was in python and such, so people thought why not.

Or it simply could be the idea that maybe it should have modules or plugins.

Features can be swapped out and created for good or bad.

Most are free, some are not.

It can be a problem at times keeping up but still.



On 18/11/2021 6:57 am, Daniel McGee wrote:
Hi all

Was just wondering, about the background history of NVDA add-ons. 

When they got started, why and for what purpose.

I can remember using NVDA when it was first born. This was before add-ons were available. So during that era, of it's development, I switched to a mac for a few years. Once I finally returned to windows, at around 2018 or so, I find low and behold, all these amazing NVDA add-ons.

How this Marvelous screen reader, has grown and evolved over time!

  Regards 

Daniel


Re: NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

Nimer Jaber
 

Hello,

The two options for changing how NVDA handles forms mode/Browse mode are the automatic focus mode for focus changes, and the automatic focus mode for caret movement. If both of these items are checked, the mode is similar to auto-forms mode in JAWS. If only automatic focus mode for focus changes is checked, this is similar to semi-automatic forms mode. If both are unchecked, this is similar to forms mode being set to manual in JAWS.

Unlike Gene and some others on this list, I do not believe that cursor should automatically move out of the edit box when the user presses down arrow. This is confusing, particular for new users, who receive no indication that they are at the end of text in the edit field, and all of a sudden get bounced out of the edit field. If they then begin typing, they are no longer in a forms mode. This simply adds confusion, in my view. I know that there will be disagreement on this, and my view comes from working with a variety of individuals as a tech trainer, who are already confused about thde various modes and cursors.

On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 9:33 AM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 12:25 PM, Gene wrote:
My objection is the default behavior of NVDA.  It should move you out of an edit field by default when you arrow.
-
Gene,

Have you ever checked to see whether an issue exists for this already on GitHub, or thought about creating one yourself?

You make good points.  That doesn't mean that they'll necessarily be accepted at NVAccess, but I feel rather certain that they'd get due consideration.

But this is not the place to make arguments for change that have any chance whatsoever at implementation.  That's never been the purpose of this group.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 



--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

Thank you, and have a great day!


Re: NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

For me my issue with chrome is that it and any chromiums seem to quote numbers displayed with comas on sites like pbtech.co.nz as entire hole numbers like 102,24

as 120024.

Maybe its the way they are written.

However firefox decodes them properly.

Pulling these numbers as they are written out of chrome shows them like this when I paste them to notepad.

But how does firefox read the values right?

Is it encoding or something.

Thats my main issue.

The other thing, is that edge likes to randomly crash after a while for no reason or on some site loads.

It breaks nvda and I have to use narator, close edge to get speech back and then reload nvda.

So the fact microsoft is edgifying windows 11 may be the reason after 5 years unless they fix it I won't be ever using it unless I need to.

Then again it may be a chromium engine thing which sucks for me I guess.


On 18/11/2021 5:22 am, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

Yeah, for me firefox runs fast on this machine, takes about 3-5 seconds to load and that’s it. Maybe it’s page dependent, even screen reader dependent.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 12:44 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

I find it considerably slower than Chrome on many websites. But I have no scientific evidence to back it up.

 

All the best


Steve

 

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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 16 November 2021 16:13
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

I’d be interested in whether others find it slow.  This may just be my experience, but Firefox seems to me to be much faster than it used to be.  I’ve started using it a lot more and I’m considering using it as my main browser.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Steve Nutt

Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2021 3:32 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

It’s just a shame that Firefox is so slow compared with Chrome, certainly on all my machines it is.

 

All the best


Steve

 

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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Sackrider
Sent: 16 November 2021 00:10
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

        I have an example of whear fire fox will and nvda will see somthng but chrome brousers don't.  The audio of the lions magazine in both edge and chrome there is no down it all button but in fire fox there is a down it all button.  I am not surprised about other things that fire fox sees that chrome brousers don't this is why I say that for the blind chrome based brousers are kind of usless junk and this is the reason that I use internet explorer for as long as I did as it was not a chrome based brouser.  I have windows 11 and there is no more internet explorer so I had to find a nonchrome based brouser and thats why i am using fire fox as my default brouser.

Brian Sackrider

On 11/15/2021 5:12 PM, Gene wrote:

I am increasingly finding cases where Firefox either sees things or does things that Chrome doesn’t when used with NVDA.  I don’t use JAWS and my demo is far too old to evaluate whether the same things occur.  But I think the question of whether Chrome-based browsers are working properly with sites in terms of accessibility should be systematically addressed.

 

Here are two examples:

First is this article from The New York Times;.

If you are at the top of the page and press s to move by separator, you will immediately move to cards giving background information on the story.

In Firefox, you see, at the end of the card, a button for previous card, unavailable since you are on the first card, and a button for next card.

Activating this button works.  It moves you to the next card.

To easily get to this card in a proper position to read it, press page up, then s for separator.

The previous and next card buttons both work correctly for this card and, I assume, for all other cards.

 

I tested with Chrome and Brave and neither of these Chrome-based browsers saw either button. I could read the first card below the separator but no buttons are displayed.


I’ve recently been looking up material on occasion using the Encyclopedia Britannica online.  When reading with Firefox, the page being read automatically shows new material as you move down it.  Firefox shows this new material when it appears.  Chrome-based browsers don’t. 

This article is an example:

 

Search from the top of the page for the word nervous.  If you down arrow in Firefox, the text continues after some items, perhaps three or four.  Chrome-based browsers don’t load new material at least not accessibly to screen-readers.

 

Chrome-based browsers don’t see comments on Youtube pages where videos are streamed.  Firefox does.  Because the page changes as you move down it, you have to move down the page to see the comments.  You can’t just search for the word comment to get to the section.

 

I’ll add that all these comments are for my specific machine but I expect they will be generally experienced.  Verification, however, is necessary.

 

Are these problems with Chrome, with NVDA, or both?  I suspect that these problems are not improper implementation of accessibility.  Those questions, however, would require technically knowledgeable investigation to be resolved.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Gene

Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 11:00 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

Since Firefox sees the checkboxes, I don’t know that its valid to assume what the problem is and that it is improper design.  Also, there may be cases where you will hear explanatory text that accompanies a structure read if you tab into the structure rather than move to it in some other way.  I haven’t compared Chrome-based and not Chrome-based browsers in these cases but again, is this improper design or just the complexity of design?

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Jackie

Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 10:55 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA's handling of checkboxes especially in Google Chrome

 

Yeah well, I'm not trying to be obscene here, but it's because the web
designers didn't use checkboxes that expose themselves, or, perhaps to
put it just a bit more succinctly, expose their state. & it is a royal
pita, & it's not unique to NVDA, though having said thus, sometimes
Jaws actually allows labeling of these graphics, whereas NVDA doesn't.
& it's not an issue specific to Chrome, either. It's actually called a
"clickable element" as opposed to a checkbox. Sighted folks generally
cant distinguish these from standard checkboxes, but they sure create
problems for us.

On 11/15/21, Tyler Zahnke mailto:programmer651@... wrote:
> Hello NVDA community! Why does NVDA not read some checkboxes in Google
> Chrome? NVDA reads a lot of them, but some sites have a "remember me"
> checkbox on their login screen that just says "clickable"; when you
> press Enter where it says clickable, the box checks, but NVDA doesn't
> tell you this. I have seen websites that contain both accessible and
> inaccessible checkboxes, why is this? And several times (I have a
> memory of seeing this on the login screen of Palai), it doesn't read
> some of the checkboxes, such as "remember me", at all. It actually got
> to the point where I thought they had removed the checkbox from their
> site because it completely didn't read it, but users of other devices
> claimed they still saw the checkbox, but several of us Chrome and NVDA
> users noticed the missing checkbox. And as soon as I tried the same
> site with Firefox and NVDA, I saw the checkbox, but it said "remember
> me clickable" and therefore, though you could check and uncheck it,
> NVDA wouldn't tell you, while on Chrome, NVDA skips over the box. This
> was a problem with a website that I actually had to help out as far as
> accessibility; their site had some regular checkboxes on the form and
> screen readers could read it just fine, but then some checkboxes said
> "clickable" or didn't say anything at all, yet the Enter key worked on
> them but the screen reader didn't say. I've probably seen variations
> on this issue for a few years, some checkbox not displaying in Chrome.
> Often I would try it again with Firefox, and at least in the
> checkbox-related cases, it usually worked. And in the case of the
> website I helped make accessible, I even looked at the HTML for the
> checkboxes, and even the inaccessible checkboxes were still coded like
> checkboxes though they may have had some extra styling on them. So
> what's the deal with checkboxes?
>
>
>
>
>
>


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Re: NVDA not reading windows menu

hurrikennyandopo ...
 

Hi


Could you check the following.


I am guessing there are windows sounds you can hear.


Could I ask which version of nvda  are they running it can be found under the help then about section of nvda.



While nvda is running can you press the nvda key + ctrl key + the letter S this should bring up the select synthesizer menu.


Nvda should land on a synthesizer if it says no no speech arrow up to say windows one core voice or e speak and see if that fixes the problem


Wondering if the synth package you are using has crashed or may not no longer work with the latest version. What synth were they using? if it says it when you bring up the menu.


If it does say a synth then try the one below.


The second thing also while it is running is hit the nvda key + the letter S and get it to toggle from if off to beeps then talk.


Gene  nz


On 17/11/2021 11:33 pm, Jo Collingwood via groups.io wrote:
Hi, I have a students laptop that has just been updated to windows 10 and now when she presses the windows key and types in the search box, NVDA doesn't read, if she then uses the arrow keys to move through the list NVDA doesn't read. Once a program has opened it works fine! I would be grateful for any suggestions please as this is frustrating for the student.


Re: NVDA speechless on the enter key in Wordpad

Mani Iyer
 

Thank you for the nice tip, Brian. I will certainly try this.

mani

On Nov 17, 2021, at 12:57 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 12:49 PM, Mani Iyer wrote:
I wish there was a command to quickly turn ‘Speak commands’ on and off.
-
Or you could just create an configuration profile for WordPad where you have NVDA Speak Commands enabled with automatic triggering.  Then this automatically comes on if and only if WordPad has focus, and is not on elsewhere.

Configuration profiles are great for this purpose.  Bring up the NVDA User Guide in your browser, NVDA + N, H, U, and read through section 12.4 
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locked Re: Narrator

 

This topic is now locked, because it is off-topic for the main group.  If you want to do deep dives into Narrator, I suggest starting a topic on the Chat Subgroup about same.

But I won't part without giving the direct link to the Complete guide to Narrator
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