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Re: File Explorer woes
Mani Iyer
Hello Brian,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Yes, for all practical purposes I am new to Windows. I used Windows in the late 90s and early 2000 and I think it was Windows NT. And unfortunately I have no memory of it. I know that I need to understand the Windows way of accessibility to be able to navigate other Windows components like Settings, etc. That is why I have decided to spend sufficient time getting the hang of it. As for File Explorer, for starters I would like to be able to pin certain folders like Documents, Dropbox, some of my private folders etc. off of the navigation pane. but reached nowhere. I can get them via the search mechanism but want to avoid searching every time. Later I want to be able to navigate the Settings to be able to customize some of the things like getting rid of screen savers etc. I will try the other group you mentioned and even the chat within our group. I am sorry but how do I start a chat session? Thank you. Warmly, Mani
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Re: Does anyone know what’s going on with NVDA con
derek riemer
Hi all: We postponed the conference because there were not many topics being submitted. We're going to hold it Jun/Jul/Aug, hopefully at a time when there are just fewer conflicts with peoples schedules due to holidays.
On Fri, Dec 3, 2021 at 10:36 AM Khalid Anwar <anwarkhalid850@...> wrote:
--
Derek Riemer Improving the world one byte at a time! ⠠⠊⠍⠏⠗⠕⠧⠬ ⠮ ⠸⠺ ⠐⠕ ⠃⠽⠞⠑ ⠁⠞ ⠁ ⠐⠞⠖ • Accessibility enthusiast. • Proud user of the NVDA screen reader. • Open source enthusiast. • Skier. • Personal website: https://derekriemer.com
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Re: File Explorer woes
Gene
the kinds of things Brian is talking about are covered in what is called
Windows Basics and it is important to learn Windows Basics in an organized
manner.
It may be that the instructional material, put out by the NVDA developers,
teaches Windows basics as a part of the instruction. Whatever the case,
Windows basics is more or less learning about different structures, used
repeatedly in Windows and Windows programs, such as menus, ribbons, lists,
dialogs, and this or that other structure or control and understanding how to
move and work with them using the keyboard. The NVDA navigator isn’t
needed and isn’t used in a lot of what is done in Windows and Windows
programs.
To give you an idea of moving in File Explorer, when you are in a list of
folders and files, you can move up and down the list with the up and down arrow
keys.
As far as shortcuts are concerned, I don’t know what you have in
mind. Tabbing is a command,not a shortcut. The up and down arrows,
used in a list are commands. You are moving up and down in a list.
I don’t know where you can get good free instruction in Windows basics but
what you are asking about fits into that category. Windows basics teaches
things like working with dialogs, menus, ribbons, lists, you mostly work with
lists in File Explorer, and other things to know. It will save you a lot
of trouble and it is important to learn Windows basics in an organized
manner. You don’t need to use object navigation for a lot of things you
routinely do in Windows and in the majority of programs. Windows basics,
as properly taught to blind people will show you how to do these things
from the keyboard.
I don’t have Windows 10 and, though File Explorer is essentially the same
in different versions of Windows, I’ll let others describe how to work with it
in case there is this or that detail that I might not know about in Windows
10. If I don’t mention it, it might cause confusion. But I’m mainly
writing to advise you of the importance of learning Windows basics
properly. Perhaps the NVDA instructional material put out by the NVDA
developers themselves explains Windows basics as part of the instruction
offered. Others, familiar with the material will, I hope discuss
that.
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Hello
all,
As a newbie, I am struggling to use File Explorer on Windows 10. I tried to
follow the Microsoft support guide on ‘Using the Screen Reader to navigate File
Explorer’ ( https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/use-a-screen-reader-to-explore-and-navigate-file-explorer-in-windows-e7d3a548-87dd-459f-a991-9fde3f7ce927#PickTab=Windows_10
) and it has not been helpful at all. Here are my questions:
1) Is using the Windows shortcut keys the only way to navigate the File
Explorer?
2) If the answer to 1) is yes, is there a rule as to when one should use
tabs, arrow keys, F6 etc.? Are there general rules with these keys in any kind
of navigation using the Windows shortcut keys?
3) If the answer to 1) is no, how can NVDA help me here? I tried object
navigation and it led me nowhere.
4) Do you think I need sighted help to tell me the layout of the File
Explorer to better understand it
5) I am comfortable in using the console for all my file needs but in some
cases it can get cumbersome typing all those commands. Is the cmd the only
resort for the blind community?
If there are better resources than the above Microsoft Support document, I
would appreciate that.
Thank you and forgive me for the long email.
Warmly,
mani
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Re: NVDA Portable Start
On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 12:32 PM, Steve Nutt wrote:
If you put that in a batch file, it will exit the console.- All I can tell you is that is not my experience. And, for myself, I would rather use the same invocation method as is used when the NVDA installer has created a shortcut for an installed version. It gives me the best assurance that things will be as much the same as they can be between a portable versus installed copy. To each his or her own. -- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043 The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly. ~ Vance Packard
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Re: Strange issue with Win11 (screen refreshing)
On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 04:55 AM, Gabriele Battaglia wrote:
And no, it never happened under Win10, it is totally new to me.- Any time one is experiencing peculiarities under either Windows 10 or 11, it is well worth doing the following, in order, and only do #2 if #1 doesn't solve the issue: 1. Using DISM (Deployment Imaging Servicing and Management) and SFC (System File Checker) to Repair Windows 8 & 10 2. Doing a Windows 10 Repair Install or Feature Update Using the Windows 10 ISO file If push really comes to shove, one may have to resort to: Doing a Completely Clean (Re)install of Windows 10 Using Media Creation Tool to Fetch the Win10 ISO File or Doing a Completely Clean (Re)install of Windows 10 Using Media Creation Tool to Create Bootable Win10 Install Media on a USB Thumb Drive depending on whether you want to just burn the ISO you already have to bootable media or just want to have the Media Creation Tool create the bootable drive for you. All of the above applies to Windows 11 as well as Windows 10. I just have not bothered to go in and update titles, etc., yet. As an aside that's worth mentioning here, and particularly since it can be more useful and helpful for someone who uses accessibility software, many technicians will do a completely clean reinstall of Windows on a brand new machine as soon as it comes out of the box. Using the install media from Microsoft gets you the cleanest and most "debloated" instance of Windows that can be had. It makes the most rock solid starting point without any bloatware that most manufacturers include on computers these days. I don't do this routinely for sighted clients, but have when I am setting up a brand new machine for someone who cannot see. If the computer has an SSD as its main system drive a completely clean reinstall is a very quick process, often less than 15 minutes, and I've never had one go to 30 minutes when an SSD is the system drive. -- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043 The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly. ~ Vance Packard
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Re: NVDA Portable Start
Steve Nutt
I never use Slave, I just start it from the drive. Drive:\nvda\nvda.exe and it just works.
If you put that in a batch file, it will exit the console.
All the best
-- To subscribe to our News and Special Offers list, go to https://www.comproom.co.uk/subscribe
Computer Room Services 77 Exeter Close Stevenage Hertfordshire SG1 4PW T: +44(0)1438-742286 M: +44(0)7956-334938 F: +44(0)1438-759589 E: steve@...
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: 28 November 2021 16:28 To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Portable Start
On Sun, Nov 28, 2021 at 12:29 AM, Howard Traxler wrote:
- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043 The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly. ~ Vance Packard
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Re: a problem with speech dictionaries again.
Dan,
It would be immensely helpful if you would post two items in relation to this issue: 1. The "From" address of one of the messages that is not being read as you'd like it to be. 2. The full, unaltered, Subject line from the same message. Post two of each, though the From should be the same, if it's easy enough to do. This is a problem that's not going to be solved in the abstract and where having concrete, actual examples helps in finding a solution. -- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043 The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly. ~ Vance Packard
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Re: File Explorer woes
On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 11:52 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
- Truthfully, it's already a Chat Subgroup or Windows Access for Screen Reader Users Group topic because it has nothing whatsoever to do with NVDA. This is a classic example of where a question of the type, "How do I use {insert thing here} with NVDA?," is, in actuality, "How do I use {insert thing here} with the keyboard?" It doesn't matter whether you're using JAWS, NVDA, Narrator, or some other screen reader of which I'm unaware. Control of File Explorer is entirely "a Windows thing" and your screen reader is simply telling you what's going on. No screen reader specific commands are ever (or virtually ever, I'm sure someone can pull out some ultra-rare exception) used in working with File Explorer. I know that there are some members here who very strongly dislike my insistance on being clear about what you're asking about, but just the act of doing that often gets you much closer to the answer, or where you need to seek it. And it's fairly simple to think about the three levels that you're dealing with, as one of them is almost always the one of clear focus: 1. Windows (or any part of Windows) 2. Your screen reader itself - which is where its commands, configuration, add-ons, and documentation come into the picture 3. The application program the screen reader is being used to access If what you're asking about falls under categories #1 or #3, it's not a question about your screen reader, and the answers do not depend on which screen reader you use nor even whether you use a screen reader at all, with the very rarest of exceptions. It only takes a few moments thought to "category sort" and, by extension, know where you should ask the question you're seeking an answer to. -- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043 The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly. ~ Vance Packard
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Re: Strange issue with Win11 (screen refreshing)
Yeah I've been there.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Its why I stopped messing round with vmware software when lockdown started. If it fails well put it this way when its needed well. One thing you can try is to go to nvda preffs and make sure the mouse mode is not active. I think its called mouse tracking, now if thats off no problem. I do use the mouse on some mainstream programs to click buttons but never on my wrig unless I need it. No idea why the mouse should move but since you can knock it about easily enough that may actually be it. The other thing is never to leave the system in a program like mail, a website, etc that autorefreshes or has updated content and that could be it to. Turning off your speakers while away may help to.
On 6/12/2021 10:42 pm, Gabriele Battaglia via groups.io wrote:
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Re: a problem with speech dictionaries again.
Dan Beaver
I am using MS David. could be the issue
since it pronounces many things incorrectly but not certain how
to determine this. Will have to try some other synths.
Dan Beaver. On 12/6/2021 11:44 AM, Sarah k Alawami
wrote:
-- Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)
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Re: File Explorer woes
The windows explore is a tree view. Use arrows to navigate the left, the tab to get between everything, do not use f6, it is although handy not sudable for this purpose. Also, when in the list view, hit control shift numrow 6 for detailed view this way you can in the list view navigate to the columns of information you can get from the explorer. I got the hang of the explorer when I used win 10 in 2017 in about maybe 2-3 days of Just practice. Do not use object nav, it is not necessary. This is a lot, but you should be ok. If not feel free to take this up on the chat list as to me this could devolve into a chat topic if we are not careful.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mani Iyer via groups.io
Sent: Monday, December 6, 2021 8:29 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: [nvda] File Explorer woes
Hello all, As a newbie, I am struggling to use File Explorer on Windows 10. I tried to follow the Microsoft support guide on ‘Using the Screen Reader to navigate File Explorer’ ( https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/use-a-screen-reader-to-explore-and-navigate-file-explorer-in-windows-e7d3a548-87dd-459f-a991-9fde3f7ce927#PickTab=Windows_10 ) and it has not been helpful at all. Here are my questions:
1) Is using the Windows shortcut keys the only way to navigate the File Explorer? 2) If the answer to 1) is yes, is there a rule as to when one should use tabs, arrow keys, F6 etc.? Are there general rules with these keys in any kind of navigation using the Windows shortcut keys? 3) If the answer to 1) is no, how can NVDA help me here? I tried object navigation and it led me nowhere. 4) Do you think I need sighted help to tell me the layout of the File Explorer to better understand it 5) I am comfortable in using the console for all my file needs but in some cases it can get cumbersome typing all those commands. Is the cmd the only resort for the blind community?
If there are better resources than the above Microsoft Support document, I would appreciate that.
Thank you and forgive me for the long email. Warmly, mani
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Re: Strange issue with Win11 (screen refreshing)
Actually if you use netlogger you might not have this issue. I do not and I run nets, or used to until my shack got flooded. It pulls from the QRZ database but that's for a different list, pm me for more info.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gabriele Battaglia via groups.io Sent: Monday, December 6, 2021 1:49 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Strange issue with Win11 (screen refreshing) Reply to Sarah k Alawami's message, wrote on 05/12/2021 at 05:24: I've had this happen especially if I'm hooked up to a networked computer and am copying something. Is that the case in your situation?Ciao Sarah and thanks for reply. Nope. The PC is connected to the internet but when this happens it is doing nothing. It happens often when I left the focus on Thunderbird and sometime on a desktop icon. I often use a software to log my amateur radio contact, for instance, it has lots of input field controls where you must enter some text or data and pass over by pressing tab. I often leave the NVDA focus over one of these fields and there nothing happens, as it should be. But, If I typed something within a text field then I wait for some time... What I typed gets selected. I'm not sure if it is a wanted behaviour or just something comes from the O.S. By the way I'm pretty sure it is not ok. Best regards. Gabe.
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Re: a problem with speech dictionaries again.
Actually it works here for me. It says “blind tech” without a dictionary entry. What synth are you using? I’m using eloquence.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dan Beaver
Sent: Sunday, December 5, 2021 1:23 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] a problem with speech dictionaries again.
Hi Gene,
I thought about that and did check it and triple checked it.
This occurs in the subject of emails from the blind tech mailing list. I looked and it is showing up exactly as I typed it. I checked the case of letters, made sure there weren't spaces in the string and other things.
The other instances of bracketed strings I have entries for are from other mailing lists and they work perfectly but this one does not.
Thanks.
Dan Beaver On 12/5/2021 4:16 PM, Gene wrote:
-- Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)
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Re: File Explorer woes
Mani,
Are you new to Windows, period? I only ask because File Explorer has not changed significantly for a very long time now, and if you knew how to use it before virtually everything you already knew should carry over. There is absolutely no reason, in general, to use Object Navigation in File Explorer. It is entirely accessible via "the more usual means." I am not quite sure what you're asking with, "Is using the Windows shortcut keys the only way to navigate the File Explorer?" As a broad, general answer it's, "Yes." There are few, if any, screen reader specific commands used for File Explorer. It behaves similarly, using standard Windows Shortcuts (which include TAB and SHIFT + TAB, among others) regardless of the screen reader you are using or whether a screen reader is in use at all (although most sighted people have no idea about those keyboard shortcuts - they're way more likely to point and click). It would help if you could give a short list of what you can't do that you want to be able to do in File Explorer. This is such a fundamental component of Windows that it's generally taught as part of a "Windows for Newbies" class of training, which is why I asked if you are competely new to Windows. I would also strongly advise you to consider joining the Windows Access for Screen Reader Users Group if you are new to Windows. The questions it appears you are most likely to ask really aren't about the screen reader, any screen reader, but about accessing Windows components, in this case File Explorer, with Windows keyboard shortcuts/commands. Windows Access for Screen Reader Users Group (Formerly: Windows 10 for Screen Reader Users Group) Group Archive: https://winaccess.groups.io/g/winaccess/topics Subscribe: winaccess+subscribe@winaccess.groups.io Post: winaccess@winaccess.groups.io Unsubscribe: winaccess+unsubscribe@winaccess.groups.io Group Owner: winaccess+owner@winaccess.groups.io Help: winaccess+help@winaccess.groups.io --Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043 The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly. ~ Vance Packard
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File Explorer woes
Mani Iyer
Hello all,
As a newbie, I am struggling to use File Explorer on Windows 10. I tried to follow the Microsoft support guide on ‘Using the Screen Reader to navigate File Explorer’ ( https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/use-a-screen-reader-to-explore-and-navigate-file-explorer-in-windows-e7d3a548-87dd-459f-a991-9fde3f7ce927#PickTab=Windows_10 ) and it has not been helpful at all. Here are my questions: 1) Is using the Windows shortcut keys the only way to navigate the File Explorer? 2) If the answer to 1) is yes, is there a rule as to when one should use tabs, arrow keys, F6 etc.? Are there general rules with these keys in any kind of navigation using the Windows shortcut keys? 3) If the answer to 1) is no, how can NVDA help me here? I tried object navigation and it led me nowhere. 4) Do you think I need sighted help to tell me the layout of the File Explorer to better understand it 5) I am comfortable in using the console for all my file needs but in some cases it can get cumbersome typing all those commands. Is the cmd the only resort for the blind community? If there are better resources than the above Microsoft Support document, I would appreciate that. Thank you and forgive me for the long email. Warmly, mani
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Re: NVDA not always reading cell contents in MS Excel?
Sally Kiebdaj
Well, that's a tidy work around. Thank you! Warmly, Sally
On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 12:31 PM Louis Maher <ljmaher03@...> wrote:
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Re: Nvda and Libreoffice
David Goldfield
Hello. From NVDA's Document Settings ensure that Cell Coordinates is checked.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Once I did this NVDA 2021.3 RC 1 identified the cell reference of Calc 7.2.3. David Goldfield, Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist JAWS Certified, 2019 Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field. Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io www.DavidGoldfield.org
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jarek.Krcmar Sent: Monday, December 6, 2021 8:20 AM To: Nvda <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Subject: [nvda] Nvda and Libreoffice Hello everyone, I am an user of LibreOffice. Since Version 7.2.3 Nvda doesn't in the Libre Calc say the fields A1, B1, etc. I don't know, where is an error. Do you have an idea, please? -- Jarek
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Nvda and Libreoffice
Jarek.Krcmar
Hello everyone,
I am an user of LibreOffice. Since Version 7.2.3 Nvda doesn't in the Libre Calc say the fields A1, B1, etc. I don't know, where is an error. Do you have an idea, please? -- Jarek
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Re: NVDA not always reading cell contents in MS Excel?
Louis Maher
Hello Sally,
This problem comes up periodically. You can try unchecking the box which says “allow editing directly in cells”. In Excel 365, do this: Open an Excel spreadsheet. Type alt + f. Up arrow to options, hit enter. Down arrow to advanced. Tab until you find the box which says “allow editing directly in cells. Uncheck that box. Shift + Tab until you reach OK. Hit enter.
Regards Louis Maher Phone: 713-444-7838 E-mail: ljmaher03@...
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Sally Kiebdaj
Sent: Monday, December 6, 2021 3:06 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: [nvda] NVDA not always reading cell contents in MS Excel?
Hello all,
Normally, I can press F2 on a cel in MS Excel and NVDA will allow me to read and edit the cell contents. Today, this has stopped working. In a spreadsheet I've been using for a week with no problems, I now cannot hear any cell contents after pressing F2. The contents are there and if I make edits and hit enter I can read my edits.However, this is not sufficient for editing prose.
I'm running:
NVDA 2021.2 Microsoft® Excel® 2019 MSO (16.0.10380.20037) 64-bit Windows 10 Pro: Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.1348)
Any ideas?
Thank you! Sally
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Re: Strange issue with Win11 (screen refreshing)
Gabriele Battaglia
Reply to Giles Turnbull's message, wrote on 05/12/2021 at 15:46:
Ciao Giles and thank you for your report. Yes, I used Win10 since 2018 and till about 1 mounth ago. And no, it never happened under Win10, it is totally new to me. The other program I installed more or less in the same period this bug appears, it was HeartStone from Blizzard, but it could be a simple coincidence. I agree with you, if it is something coming fron Asus, I'll change it and no more Asus computer in the life. You loved it, I don't. I found this Asus pretty fragile, with problem on dissipating warm. And, moreover, even it runs an I7 with 16GB ram, I found it too much slow. I'm thinking to have a glance at DEL, for next one. Best regards. Gabe.
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