Date   

Re: a problem with speech dictionaries again.

Gene
 

Did the dictionary entry you made do that?  I’ve never tried to control punctuation with a dictionary entry.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Beaver
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2021 3:45 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] a problem with speech dictionaries again.
 

Well, I really only want them suppressed when they are in the subject of emails.  Sounds dumb I know but I hate having to listen to brackets around things in subject lines because I get so many emails from mailing lists with them.


Dan Beaver

On 12/6/2021 3:33 PM, Gene wrote:
This is an example of why it is important for people to provide details of what they want to do and not just ask how to do something when trying to solve a problem.  The method may not be what the person thinks or there may be a much better one.  You can change punctuation levels sso a specific punctuation mark won’t be spoken at a certain level or so that it will.  For example, if you are using the most level and you don’t want brackets spoken, you can set the level to all.  That will mean that it won’t be spoken at the most level but will when you are using the all level. 
 
I’ll write a description later today if that is indeed what you want, to change the punctuation level for the brackets but leave everything else alone.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Beaver
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2021 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] a problem with speech dictionaries again.
 

Actually, I am trying to get it not to say the brackets.  If I could get it to do that I would be happy to live with "blind-t".  It does not do this if I select whole word as the type. I just sort of randomly chose blind tech just because they discuss tech for the blind on that list.

 

Dan Beaver

On 12/6/2021 3:07 PM, Gene wrote:
Your screen-reader is saying blind-t correctly.  You evidently want it to say blindtech.  Of course, you may have it do so but that is a completely different list.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Beaver
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2021 2:01 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] a problem with speech dictionaries again.
 

Here you go Brian,

 

posting 1:

Sender: blind-t@groups.io
Subject: Re: [blind-t] Another sort of, audible? question

 

 

posting 2:

Sender: blind-t@groups.io
Subject: Re: [blind-t] iPhone Status Bar

Dan Beaver

On 12/6/2021 12:32 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Dan,

It would be immensely helpful if you would post two items in relation to this issue:

1. The "From" address of one of the messages that is not being read as you'd like it to be.

2. The full, unaltered, Subject line from the same message.

Post two of each, though the From should be the same, if it's easy enough to do.  This is a problem that's not going to be solved in the abstract and where having concrete, actual examples helps in finding a solution.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard

 

-- 
Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)
-- 
Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)
-- 
Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)


Re: File Explorer woes

Gene
 

You seem to be implying something that is worth briefly mentioning.  A lot of the time, if you hear something a program or Windows is doing, such as if you move to a list or bring up a menu, you will hear something announced like list or edit field.   A lot of people have problems because they don’t let everything read in unfamiliar dialogs or structures so they don’t know how they can move or what they can do where they are when they move. 
 
I don’t want to make too much of what we are discussing and make it appear more difficult than it is.  As you learn, you will develop a good idea of what commands are what but I think that mentioning the importance of listening for information about the control or structure you are in in unfamiliar settings is important.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2021 3:33 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] File Explorer woes
 
On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 04:22 PM, Gene wrote:
category of screen-reader keys are those that provide information a blind user can’t get or can’t get with any convenience in other ways.
-
Gene, not disagreeing with you at all.  But I'll use my prior paradigm, if you try these with a screen reader off, or with a screen reader other than the one you actually use on (which would be the more likely scenario), do they do the same thing, something different, or nothing?

Although I know there is plenty of overlap in certain screen readers and their informational commands, it's not perfect.

You're 100% correct about there being this class of command, but if you're used to applying logic to try to figure out "who's handling what" based on my prior paradigm, in almost all cases, you will settle on "screen reader" pretty darned quickly.  And you can eliminate Windows very, very quickly as well, as most of these commands are not only screen reader commands, but screen reader commands that work only in selected contexts.  And that's why it is sometimes difficult to know whether it may be a screen reader command versus an application program command, as the possibility that the screen reader is just reading something you've triggered from the application is a distinct possibility.

But you and I have long been "on the same page" about it being essential to know about the various levels of keyboard command processing and how to figure out which is at play when you're uncertain.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard

 


Re: NVDA not always reading cell contents in MS Excel?

Louis Maher
 

You are welcome Louise.

 

Regards

Louis Maher

Phone: 713-444-7838

E-mail: ljmaher03@...

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Louise Pfau
Sent: Monday, December 6, 2021 2:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA not always reading cell contents in MS Excel?

 

On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 04:31 AM, Louis Maher wrote:

This problem comes up periodically.  You can try unchecking the box which says “allow editing directly in cells”.  In Excel 365, do this:

Open an Excel spreadsheet. 

Type alt + f. Up arrow to options, hit enter. Down arrow to advanced. Tab until you find the box which says “allow editing directly in cells. Uncheck that

box. Shift + Tab until you reach OK. Hit enter.

I'm glad to know this is happening in newer versions of Excel as well, and I'm not the only one.  Thanks for the specific instructions.  I knew the setting had been mentioned in prior topics (not necessarily on this list), but I don't recall if there were specific instructions on how to find it.  I hope this fixes the problem I'm having with editing too.  The wording for the command sounds counterintuitive, because the box has to be unchecked to allow editing in cells.

Thanks,

Louise


Re: a problem with speech dictionaries again.

Dan Beaver
 

Well, I really only want them suppressed when they are in the subject of emails.  Sounds dumb I know but I hate having to listen to brackets around things in subject lines because I get so many emails from mailing lists with them.


Dan Beaver

On 12/6/2021 3:33 PM, Gene wrote:
This is an example of why it is important for people to provide details of what they want to do and not just ask how to do something when trying to solve a problem.  The method may not be what the person thinks or there may be a much better one.  You can change punctuation levels sso a specific punctuation mark won’t be spoken at a certain level or so that it will.  For example, if you are using the most level and you don’t want brackets spoken, you can set the level to all.  That will mean that it won’t be spoken at the most level but will when you are using the all level. 
 
I’ll write a description later today if that is indeed what you want, to change the punctuation level for the brackets but leave everything else alone.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Beaver
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2021 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] a problem with speech dictionaries again.
 

Actually, I am trying to get it not to say the brackets.  If I could get it to do that I would be happy to live with "blind-t".  It does not do this if I select whole word as the type. I just sort of randomly chose blind tech just because they discuss tech for the blind on that list.


Dan Beaver

On 12/6/2021 3:07 PM, Gene wrote:
Your screen-reader is saying blind-t correctly.  You evidently want it to say blindtech.  Of course, you may have it do so but that is a completely different list.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Beaver
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2021 2:01 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] a problem with speech dictionaries again.
 

Here you go Brian,

 

posting 1:

Sender: blind-t@groups.io
Subject: Re: [blind-t] Another sort of, audible? question

 

 

posting 2:

Sender: blind-t@groups.io
Subject: Re: [blind-t] iPhone Status Bar

Dan Beaver

On 12/6/2021 12:32 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Dan,

It would be immensely helpful if you would post two items in relation to this issue:

1. The "From" address of one of the messages that is not being read as you'd like it to be.

2. The full, unaltered, Subject line from the same message.

Post two of each, though the From should be the same, if it's easy enough to do.  This is a problem that's not going to be solved in the abstract and where having concrete, actual examples helps in finding a solution.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard

 

-- 
Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)
-- 
Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)
-- 
Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)


Re: File Explorer woes

 

On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 04:22 PM, Gene wrote:
category of screen-reader keys are those that provide information a blind user can’t get or can’t get with any convenience in other ways.
-
Gene, not disagreeing with you at all.  But I'll use my prior paradigm, if you try these with a screen reader off, or with a screen reader other than the one you actually use on (which would be the more likely scenario), do they do the same thing, something different, or nothing?

Although I know there is plenty of overlap in certain screen readers and their informational commands, it's not perfect.

You're 100% correct about there being this class of command, but if you're used to applying logic to try to figure out "who's handling what" based on my prior paradigm, in almost all cases, you will settle on "screen reader" pretty darned quickly.  And you can eliminate Windows very, very quickly as well, as most of these commands are not only screen reader commands, but screen reader commands that work only in selected contexts.  And that's why it is sometimes difficult to know whether it may be a screen reader command versus an application program command, as the possibility that the screen reader is just reading something you've triggered from the application is a distinct possibility.

But you and I have long been "on the same page" about it being essential to know about the various levels of keyboard command processing and how to figure out which is at play when you're uncertain.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard

 


Re: File Explorer woes

Gene
 

Also, lists, by their nature, can’t teach Windows basics well.  Lists answer various questions but they don’t present a body of knowledge in an organized manner.  I took the time to answer the question not to criticize you for asking it, but to explain important information about how to learn Windows well and save a lot of trouble now and later.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2021 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] File Explorer woes
 
On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 03:48 PM, Mani Iyer wrote:
I am sorry I asked this question.
-
Mani,

Truly, there is nothing to apologize for.   It seems like you are a neophyte, and the best thing you can do in that situation is to ask questions where you believe answers will be forthcoming.

Sometimes what's forthcoming is a reference to somewhere else that is likely to be a better information source than your chosen starting point.  That's not an attack on you, nor to make you feel bad, but to point you to the best resources.

As you learn more, the expectations do change.  As you develop additional sophistication in using Windows, NVDA, and various application programs it's expected that more forethought will go into both the asking of questions and where you elect to ask them.  Right now, you're just starting out, so people are trying to help you out the best ways they know how.  Sometimes that means sending you elsewhere for help that they cannot give.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard

 


Re: File Explorer woes

Gene
 

Another category of screen-reader keys are those that provide information a blind user can’t get or can’t get with any convenience in other ways.  The read title bar command is such a command.  It gives the user information a sighted person can just look at but since the title bar is displayed information and there is no command for a sighted person to access it since all the person does is look at the screen, a screen-reader command is provided to announce what it says. 
 
Read status line is another such command. 
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2021 3:09 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] File Explorer woes
 
On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 02:46 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
Hit alt tab, good, never have I heard of in my years of listening to other trainers, “hit alt tab, this is a windows keyboard shortcut.” Now hit capslock t. This is a screen reader shortcut.
-
And you probably never will at a keystroke by keystroke level, as that gets tedious very quickly.  But an instructor should introduce the concept of certain keystrokes being handled by Windows, your screen reader, and the application program being used, in that hierarchical order.  Then they should mention if you find yourself using the same keystroke almost literally everywhere, e.g., Tab, SHIFT + TAB, CTRL + X, CTRL + C, CTRL + V, you can pretty much know, because of the fact that they're the same, everywhere, that it's Windows (or, more generally, the operating system) that is processing those.  They don't change across contexts.

Screen reader commands are somewhat more obvious in that they only have an effect either on the screen reader behavior if they tweak settings, or only work if the screen reader is active, e.g., browse mode single letter shortcuts to jump between things like buttons, edit boxes, etc.  You don't have a screen reader running, they have zero effect.

And, finally, application shortcuts.  While I'll admit this is not necessarily clear cut all the time, most of the time it is.  Think of virtually anything that you do that isn't a ubiquitous Windows keyboard shortcut, or a screen reader shortcut, in any application you can name.  The things being done are specific to the application, turning on formatting, rewinding, deleting a file (or character), starting the ripping of a CD, and the list goes on and on.

I don't, with every keyboard shortcut, identify each and every one, each and every time, as to what processes it, as that often overwhelms as far as the student getting the actual result they need to be getting at that moment.  What I do is something like I said above, early on, and when the occasion arises where uncertainty exists, I make them reason out which of those three classes they believe the shortcut to fall into based upon exactly what it does and where it does it.  Most pick up on this very quickly indeed, and it makes their lives much easier over the long run.

Yes, none of the above is specific to NVDA, but it is so important to working with NVDA in the context of Windows and the applications you use it to access that I'm granting myself a special dispensation in order to make that information known, and plain (I hope).
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard

 


Re: File Explorer woes

 

On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 02:46 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
Hit alt tab, good, never have I heard of in my years of listening to other trainers, “hit alt tab, this is a windows keyboard shortcut.” Now hit capslock t. This is a screen reader shortcut.
-
And you probably never will at a keystroke by keystroke level, as that gets tedious very quickly.  But an instructor should introduce the concept of certain keystrokes being handled by Windows, your screen reader, and the application program being used, in that hierarchical order.  Then they should mention if you find yourself using the same keystroke almost literally everywhere, e.g., Tab, SHIFT + TAB, CTRL + X, CTRL + C, CTRL + V, you can pretty much know, because of the fact that they're the same, everywhere, that it's Windows (or, more generally, the operating system) that is processing those.  They don't change across contexts.

Screen reader commands are somewhat more obvious in that they only have an effect either on the screen reader behavior if they tweak settings, or only work if the screen reader is active, e.g., browse mode single letter shortcuts to jump between things like buttons, edit boxes, etc.  You don't have a screen reader running, they have zero effect.

And, finally, application shortcuts.  While I'll admit this is not necessarily clear cut all the time, most of the time it is.  Think of virtually anything that you do that isn't a ubiquitous Windows keyboard shortcut, or a screen reader shortcut, in any application you can name.  The things being done are specific to the application, turning on formatting, rewinding, deleting a file (or character), starting the ripping of a CD, and the list goes on and on.

I don't, with every keyboard shortcut, identify each and every one, each and every time, as to what processes it, as that often overwhelms as far as the student getting the actual result they need to be getting at that moment.  What I do is something like I said above, early on, and when the occasion arises where uncertainty exists, I make them reason out which of those three classes they believe the shortcut to fall into based upon exactly what it does and where it does it.  Most pick up on this very quickly indeed, and it makes their lives much easier over the long run.

Yes, none of the above is specific to NVDA, but it is so important to working with NVDA in the context of Windows and the applications you use it to access that I'm granting myself a special dispensation in order to make that information known, and plain (I hope).
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard

 


Re: Nvda and Libreoffice

Jarek.Krcmar
 

Hi David,

the cells in Microsoft Excel are in order, but if I open Libreoffice and there Libre calc, there I can't with arrows read the cells, Nvda is silent.


I have now the version of Libreoffice 7.2.4.

Jarek

Dne 06.12.2021 v 14:47 David Goldfield napsal(a):

Hello. From NVDA's Document Settings ensure that Cell Coordinates is checked.
Once I did this NVDA 2021.3 RC 1 identified the cell reference of Calc 7.2.3.


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019
Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.
Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jarek.Krcmar
Sent: Monday, December 6, 2021 8:20 AM
To: Nvda <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] Nvda and Libreoffice

Hello everyone,

I am an user of LibreOffice. Since Version 7.2.3 Nvda doesn't in the Libre Calc say the fields A1, B1, etc.

I don't know, where is an error.

Do you have an idea, please?

--
Jarek












__________ ESET Internet Security __________

Tato zprava byla zkontrolovana, a nebyly v ni nalezeny zadne hrozby.



Verze detekcniho jadra: 24409 (20211206)

https://www.eset.cz

--
Jarek


Re: File Explorer woes

 

On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 03:48 PM, Mani Iyer wrote:
I am sorry I asked this question.
-
Mani,

Truly, there is nothing to apologize for.   It seems like you are a neophyte, and the best thing you can do in that situation is to ask questions where you believe answers will be forthcoming.

Sometimes what's forthcoming is a reference to somewhere else that is likely to be a better information source than your chosen starting point.  That's not an attack on you, nor to make you feel bad, but to point you to the best resources.

As you learn more, the expectations do change.  As you develop additional sophistication in using Windows, NVDA, and various application programs it's expected that more forethought will go into both the asking of questions and where you elect to ask them.  Right now, you're just starting out, so people are trying to help you out the best ways they know how.  Sometimes that means sending you elsewhere for help that they cannot give.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard

 


Re: File Explorer woes

Mani Iyer
 

Thank you Brian and Gene.  I am sorry I asked this question.

Warmly,
Mani


On Dec 6, 2021, at 2:17 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 01:53 PM, Gene wrote:
I don’t know where you can get good free instruction in Windows basics but what you are asking about fits into that category.
-
Indeed.  And material on Windows for Screen Readers is commonly and widely available.  YouTube has scads of videos (actually audio presentations, but the term videos is used for all YouTube media, because there is a video element, even if it's just a place holder graphic) on using specific screen readers with various Microsoft programs and with Windows components such as File Explorer itself.

Training materials from NVAccess are available at the NVAccess Shop Page.  I would presume that the NVDA Basic Training would have to cover certain aspects of Windows, but I have no idea as to what depth.  Gene NZ, the owner and maintainer of accessibilitycentral.net, has many tutorials covering a wide range of subjects, and it looks like some of them deal with Windows basics with a keyboard and screen reader (usually NVDA).

Gene is absolutely right that having training, preferably formal and carefully organized training, in how to use Windows when you are brand new to it is essential because it serves as the foundation for all else in the Windows ecosystem.

I do not know where Mani is located and what services may, or may not, be available to him or her (I'm guessing him) via something akin to what we have here in the Virginia Department for the Blind and the Visually-Impaired (DBVI) but if such exists its well worth seeing if training is available through them if it's something you need.  My typical job is private, one-on-one tutoring with individuals who need to learn how to use a screen reader after having lost their vision, but virtually all of them were computer users prior to having lost the ability to see, so teaching basic Windows concepts very seldom plays into the instruction.  It's generally presumed that they were proficient (for some definition of proficient) computer users in the past, and what the focus is on is learning to use a screen reader.

It's funny how this particular topic is the flip side of what I often deal with as far as field counselors, particularly brand new ones, go.  I'll often be asked if I can teach "just the screen reader" and I have to explain that there's not much one can teach about using a screen reader unless it's being used to access something else.  You may not need to actually teach a single thing about what it's being used to access, but you usually do, even if that's just all the keyboard shortcuts to replace all the prior functions that were "point and click.  Accessibility software has as its reason for being actually gaining access to something else, and you can't ignore whatever that something else may happen to be and focus solely on the screen reader itself when someone's new to a screen reader.

Once they have command of the screen reader, though, they should be able to recognize what are screen reader commands versus what are Windows commands versus what are commands for the application they happen to be using at that moment.  While all three will be in use in a back and forth manner when you use a computer, they are still separate things and knowing which is which makes life much easier when later questions occur, and allows you to isolate what it is you're having trouble with and want to ask about.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard

 


Re: a problem with speech dictionaries again.

Gene
 

This is an example of why it is important for people to provide details of what they want to do and not just ask how to do something when trying to solve a problem.  The method may not be what the person thinks or there may be a much better one.  You can change punctuation levels sso a specific punctuation mark won’t be spoken at a certain level or so that it will.  For example, if you are using the most level and you don’t want brackets spoken, you can set the level to all.  That will mean that it won’t be spoken at the most level but will when you are using the all level. 
 
I’ll write a description later today if that is indeed what you want, to change the punctuation level for the brackets but leave everything else alone.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Beaver
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2021 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] a problem with speech dictionaries again.
 

Actually, I am trying to get it not to say the brackets.  If I could get it to do that I would be happy to live with "blind-t".  It does not do this if I select whole word as the type. I just sort of randomly chose blind tech just because they discuss tech for the blind on that list.


Dan Beaver

On 12/6/2021 3:07 PM, Gene wrote:
Your screen-reader is saying blind-t correctly.  You evidently want it to say blindtech.  Of course, you may have it do so but that is a completely different list.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Beaver
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2021 2:01 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] a problem with speech dictionaries again.
 

Here you go Brian,

 

posting 1:

Sender: blind-t@groups.io
Subject: Re: [blind-t] Another sort of, audible? question

 

 

posting 2:

Sender: blind-t@groups.io
Subject: Re: [blind-t] iPhone Status Bar

Dan Beaver

On 12/6/2021 12:32 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Dan,

It would be immensely helpful if you would post two items in relation to this issue:

1. The "From" address of one of the messages that is not being read as you'd like it to be.

2. The full, unaltered, Subject line from the same message.

Post two of each, though the From should be the same, if it's easy enough to do.  This is a problem that's not going to be solved in the abstract and where having concrete, actual examples helps in finding a solution.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard

 

-- 
Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)
-- 
Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)


Re: NVDA not always reading cell contents in MS Excel?

Louise Pfau
 

On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 04:31 AM, Louis Maher wrote:

This problem comes up periodically.  You can try unchecking the box which says “allow editing directly in cells”.  In Excel 365, do this:

Open an Excel spreadsheet. 

Type alt + f. Up arrow to options, hit enter. Down arrow to advanced. Tab until you find the box which says “allow editing directly in cells. Uncheck that

box. Shift + Tab until you reach OK. Hit enter.

I'm glad to know this is happening in newer versions of Excel as well, and I'm not the only one.  Thanks for the specific instructions.  I knew the setting had been mentioned in prior topics (not necessarily on this list), but I don't recall if there were specific instructions on how to find it.  I hope this fixes the problem I'm having with editing too.  The wording for the command sounds counterintuitive, because the box has to be unchecked to allow editing in cells.

Thanks,

Louise


Re: a problem with speech dictionaries again.

Dan Beaver
 

Actually, I am trying to get it not to say the brackets.  If I could get it to do that I would be happy to live with "blind-t".  It does not do this if I select whole word as the type. I just sort of randomly chose blind tech just because they discuss tech for the blind on that list.


Dan Beaver

On 12/6/2021 3:07 PM, Gene wrote:
Your screen-reader is saying blind-t correctly.  You evidently want it to say blindtech.  Of course, you may have it do so but that is a completely different list.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Beaver
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2021 2:01 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] a problem with speech dictionaries again.
 

Here you go Brian,


posting 1:

Sender: blind-t@groups.io
Subject: Re: [blind-t] Another sort of, audible? question

 

 

posting 2:

Sender: blind-t@groups.io
Subject: Re: [blind-t] iPhone Status Bar

Dan Beaver

On 12/6/2021 12:32 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Dan,

It would be immensely helpful if you would post two items in relation to this issue:

1. The "From" address of one of the messages that is not being read as you'd like it to be.

2. The full, unaltered, Subject line from the same message.

Post two of each, though the From should be the same, if it's easy enough to do.  This is a problem that's not going to be solved in the abstract and where having concrete, actual examples helps in finding a solution.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard

 

-- 
Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)
-- 
Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)


Re: a problem with speech dictionaries again.

Gene
 

Your screen-reader is saying blind-t correctly.  You evidently want it to say blindtech.  Of course, you may have it do so but that is a completely different list.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Beaver
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2021 2:01 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] a problem with speech dictionaries again.
 

Here you go Brian,


posting 1:

Sender: blind-t@groups.io
Subject: Re: [blind-t] Another sort of, audible? question

 

 

posting 2:

Sender: blind-t@groups.io
Subject: Re: [blind-t] iPhone Status Bar

Dan Beaver

On 12/6/2021 12:32 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Dan,

It would be immensely helpful if you would post two items in relation to this issue:

1. The "From" address of one of the messages that is not being read as you'd like it to be.

2. The full, unaltered, Subject line from the same message.

Post two of each, though the From should be the same, if it's easy enough to do.  This is a problem that's not going to be solved in the abstract and where having concrete, actual examples helps in finding a solution.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard

 

-- 
Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)


Re: a problem with speech dictionaries again.

Dan Beaver
 

Here you go Brian,


posting 1:

Sender: blind-t@groups.io
Subject: Re: [blind-t] Another sort of, audible? question



posting 2:

Sender: blind-t@groups.io
Subject: Re: [blind-t] iPhone Status Bar

Dan Beaver

On 12/6/2021 12:32 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Dan,

It would be immensely helpful if you would post two items in relation to this issue:

1. The "From" address of one of the messages that is not being read as you'd like it to be.

2. The full, unaltered, Subject line from the same message.

Post two of each, though the From should be the same, if it's easy enough to do.  This is a problem that's not going to be solved in the abstract and where having concrete, actual examples helps in finding a solution.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard

 

-- 
Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)


Re: File Explorer woes

Sarah k Alawami
 

The sad thing is, when I had computer training, I was not taught the difference between windows os keys and screen reader keys. I have a funny story to tell about that but I might put that one on the chat group. Many of us probably even today if we are with a trainer are not taught the difference. Hit alt tab, good, never have I heard of in my years of listening to other trainers, “hit alt tab, this is a windows keyboard shortcut.” Now hit capslock t. This is a screen reader shortcut.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, December 6, 2021 9:27 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] File Explorer woes

 

On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 11:52 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

as to me this could devolve into a chat topic if we are not careful.

 

-
Truthfully, it's already a Chat Subgroup or Windows Access for Screen Reader Users Group topic because it has nothing whatsoever to do with NVDA.

This is a classic example of where a question of the type, "How do I use {insert thing here} with NVDA?," is, in actuality, "How do I use {insert thing here} with the keyboard?"   It doesn't matter whether you're using JAWS, NVDA, Narrator, or some other screen reader of which I'm unaware.  Control of File Explorer is entirely "a Windows thing" and your screen reader is simply telling you what's going on.  No screen reader specific commands are ever (or virtually ever, I'm sure someone can pull out some ultra-rare exception) used in working with File Explorer.

I know that there are some members here who very strongly dislike my insistance on being clear about what you're asking about, but just the act of doing that often gets you much closer to the answer, or where you need to seek it.  And it's fairly simple to think about the three levels that you're dealing with, as one of them is almost always the one of clear focus:

1. Windows (or any part of Windows)
2. Your screen reader itself - which is where its commands, configuration, add-ons, and documentation come into the picture
3. The application program the screen reader is being used to access

If what you're asking about falls under categories #1 or #3, it's not a question about your screen reader, and the answers do not depend on which screen reader you use nor even whether you use a screen reader at all, with the very rarest of exceptions.

It only takes a few moments thought to "category sort" and, by extension, know where you should ask the question you're seeking an answer to.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard

 


Re: Configuration Profiles Limitation (Speech Dictionary)

 

Thomas,

The following is not meant to be snarky in any way, but on the whole, no, it doesn't make sense.

Configuration profiles can be set up to either be manually triggered (which is usually the exception) or automatically triggered (more common) when you land in an application.  The things specific to that profile will only apply when that profile is active.

Now, on to what I think you're asking (and I could be wrong):  If you're looking for the same Synth to pronounce the exact same thing differently depending on what application you're in, would only be possible using "clever trickery."  The dictionaries, temporary, default, and voice are separate.  Both the temporary, which vanishes if you restart NVDA and default apply no matter what voice and what app  you're in.  Now, the voice dictionary applies in any app you're in where you happen to use the specific voice, so if you were willing to change voices based upon the application you're currently using, you could limit substitutions to occurring only when that specific voice is in use.  I'm not sure if a change in voice, as opposed to a change in synth, can be made automatic in a profile, but the change in synth can, and you could just make sure you're using a specific voice with that synth for which you created the necessary voice dictionary entries.

I hope this helped, and I hope I've managed to actually get at what you were hoping to do.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard

 


Configuration Profiles Limitation (Speech Dictionary)

Thomas N. Chan
 

Hi all,
I have this particular  thing I want to customize in NVDA.
I want my TTS to read certain things in certain applications when I triggle in configuration profile.
For example, if I am in the putty/command prompt or even reviewing text logs, I want to read, respond or reply as Yes or Y
but when I am in normal webapps like gmail or even reading email in outlook, all these I want them to read as normal reply or respond.
I read the FAQ on github and the following is what it said.
Any changes made to NVDA settings (eg synthesizer, speech rate or punctuation level) are applied to this profile.

What can you all suggest I do in this situation?

I hope all these make sense
Regards,
Thomas N. Chan


Re: File Explorer woes

Mani Iyer
 

Thank you ver much, Sarah.


On Dec 6, 2021, at 11:52 AM, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:

The windows explore is a tree view. Use arrows to navigate the left, the tab to get between everything, do not use f6, it is although handy not sudable for this purpose. Also, when in the list view, hit control shift numrow 6 for detailed view this way you can in the list view navigate to the columns of information you can get from the explorer. I got the hang of the explorer when I used win 10 in 2017 in about maybe 2-3 days of Just practice. Do not use object nav, it is not necessary. This is a lot, but you should be ok. If not feel free to take this  up on the chat list as to me this could devolve into a chat topic if we are not careful.
 
 
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mani Iyer via groups.io
Sent: Monday, December 6, 2021 8:29 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] File Explorer woes
 
Hello all,
As a newbie, I am struggling to use File Explorer on Windows 10. I tried to follow the Microsoft support guide on ‘Using the Screen Reader to navigate File Explorer’ ( https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/use-a-screen-reader-to-explore-and-navigate-file-explorer-in-windows-e7d3a548-87dd-459f-a991-9fde3f7ce927#PickTab=Windows_10 ) and it has not been helpful at all. Here are my questions:
 
1) Is using the Windows shortcut keys the only way to navigate the File Explorer?
2) If the answer to 1) is yes, is there a rule as to when one should use tabs, arrow keys, F6 etc.? Are there general rules with these keys in any kind of navigation using the Windows shortcut keys?
3) If the answer to 1) is no, how can NVDA help me here? I tried object navigation and it led me nowhere.
4) Do you think I need sighted help to tell me the layout of the File Explorer to better understand it
5) I am comfortable in using the console for all my file needs but in some cases it can get cumbersome typing all those commands. Is the cmd the only resort for the blind community?
 
If there are better resources than the above Microsoft Support document, I would appreciate that. 
 
Thank you and forgive me for the long email.
Warmly,
mani
 
 


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