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Re: NVDA Features feedback

Gene
 
Edited

That’s true.  This might not matter for a good while, but as time goes by, it may become necessary or desirable to run the current version and an older version to support certain programs better.  I don’t recall what the portable version can’t do that the installed version can in enough detail to know if that might be a problem. 
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2021 6:26 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Features feedback
 

Hi Gene,

One fact though, if someone for some reason decided to use legacy apps, they could always continue to use an old version of NVDA.

On 12/14/2021 11:31 PM, Gene wrote:
I haven’t followed fixes in NVDA for unsupported programs.  But I think these questions need to be considered when deciding what to support:
How many people are using these old programs and why?  NVDA is used all over the world and blind people of all economic circumstances use it.  There may be good reasons some people are using old versions of programs and Windows.  Is fixing problems in how NVDA works with a specific program worth the time in terms of how many people benefit versus the things that are undone as a result?  At some point, even if the needs of people are taken into account, it may become so difficult and time consuming to fix problems or keep NVDA compatible that the effort would be given up even if [enough people would benefit to have justified such fixes in the past.  I suspect that at times, you can’t maintain compatibility with old programs or versions of Windows while making NVDA work well with new versions because of changes in the new programs.  But I don’t think you benefit people in the best way by applying an arbitrary rule.
 
Gene
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2021 9:58 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Features feedback
 

better support for Microsoft office, especially the editor and spellcheck, fixes for performance losses.

Better support for Firefox, fixes for large table Firefox lags and other Firefox lags.

abandonment of legacy applications. I feel NVAccess should develop a support policy for applications that have no official support, and stick to it. There is no reason why anyone should be using Windows 7, office 2003/2007/2010 etc, and time shouldn't be spent on fixing bugs in obsolete technologies.

On 12/14/2021 5:34 AM, Rui Fontes wrote:

Hello!

 

1 - Better support for Libre Office or Open Office;

2 - Possibility of easily label controls not labelled by develloper;

3 - Better control of what is announced by pressing a key. Take as example Narrator.

 

Rui Fontes
Re: NVDA Features feedback

Sarah k Alawami
 
Edited

Not necessarily. When nvda quits supporting version of windows that these people are using they will be in a word SOL. It’s happening now to a small degree.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2021 4:27 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Features feedback

 

Hi Gene,

One fact though, if someone for some reason decided to use legacy apps, they could always continue to use an old version of NVDA.

On 12/14/2021 11:31 PM, Gene wrote:

I haven’t followed fixes in NVDA for unsupported programs.  But I think these questions need to be considered when deciding what to support:

How many people are using these old programs and why?  NVDA is used all over the world and blind people of all economic circumstances use it.  There may be good reasons some people are using old versions of programs and Windows.  Is fixing problems in how NVDA works with a specific program worth the time in terms of how many people benefit versus the things that are undone as a result?  At some point, even if the needs of people are taken into account, it may become so difficult and time consuming to fix problems or keep NVDA compatible that the effort would be given up even if [enough people would benefit to have justified such fixes in the past.  I suspect that at times, you can’t maintain compatibility with old programs or versions of Windows while making NVDA work well with new versions because of changes in the new programs.  But I don’t think you benefit people in the best way by applying an arbitrary rule.

 

Gene

Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2021 9:58 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Features feedback

 

better support for Microsoft office, especially the editor and spellcheck, fixes for performance losses.

Better support for Firefox, fixes for large table Firefox lags and other Firefox lags.

abandonment of legacy applications. I feel NVAccess should develop a support policy for applications that have no official support, and stick to it. There is no reason why anyone should be using Windows 7, office 2003/2007/2010 etc, and time shouldn't be spent on fixing bugs in obsolete technologies.

On 12/14/2021 5:34 AM, Rui Fontes wrote:

Hello!

 

1 - Better support for Libre Office or Open Office;

2 - Possibility of easily label controls not labelled by develloper;

3 - Better control of what is announced by pressing a key. Take as example Narrator.

 

Rui Fontes 

 

 
Re: NVDA Features feedback

Mani Iyer
 

Hello,

Speak the carriage return character at all times when entering or reading text. You can say ‘carriage return’ or ’new line’.


Mani
Re: Issue Installing the Application Dictionary Add-On

Brian Vogel
 

On Wed, Dec 15, 2021 at 09:14 AM, Dave Grossoehme wrote:
However, what is going to happen if you have someone that doesn't have the knowledge to make a change like this?
-
It's happening, now.

My main point is that having random end users make hacks (and, yes, that's what these are, even if they're exactly what the official maintainer would need to do) is no way to keep something functioning over the long term.

Some add-ons will die, because the simple manifest tweak is not going to be all that's needed as time marches on.  That is unless someone picks up the ones that have been walked away from by their original developers.  And for that to happen there needs to be enough community demand for someone to want to dedicate their time and effort.

Not every piece of software, and that includes NVDA Add-Ons, has a perpetual service life.  There are quite a few add-ons in use that were (and this is no insult) throw-together items made by some very creative user who needed something that didn't exist who decided to share it with the world.  But those users are often no longer with us for any one of a multitude of reasons.

I'm sure that there are certain add-ons that have a very tiny user base compared to the NVDA user base as a whole.  And if their developers cease to maintain them, they are, effectively, the walking dead of software.  Eventually, they will break in a way that will not be fixed.

"In support" is much like "pregnant."  Either you are, or you aren't.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

       ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 
Re: Issue Installing the Application Dictionary Add-On

Dave Grossoehme
 

Hi:  I have to agree %100 with you Bryan.  However, what is going to happen if you have someone that doesn't have the knowledge to make a change like this?

Dave G


On 12/7/2021 12:54 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 12:40 PM, Rui Fontes wrote:
Have you tried to change the manifest.ini?
-
No, and not because I doubt that I could edit it.  But that's not a solution.

Add-ons are either being maintained, by someone (not necessarily their original developers), or they're not.

While I greatly appreciate the manifest editing workarounds you've provided, those are still not a permanent solution to what I hope is a temporary problem.  If an add-on has been abandoned it should be able to be picked up by anyone who wishes to maintain it based on the licensing requirements that NVDA (wisely) insists upon.

If the manifest needs to be edited, or something else needs to be done, the official maintainers need to be doing it.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard

 
Re: NVDA Features feedback

Monte Single
 
Edited

This narrator / mail combo sounds great.

 

I’ll try it!

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: December 15, 2021 6:21 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Features feedback

 

Also, better outlook support.

 

Just load Narrator, turn on it’s experimental Outlook Efficiency mode, and see how it should be done. It reads an Email when you open it, without re-reading the subject, to and from fields, etc, and it doesn’t fail to automatically read the whole Email, whether it is text or HTML.

 

All the best


Steve

 

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Re: NVDA Features feedback

enes sarıbaş
 

Hi Gene,

One fact though, if someone for some reason decided to use legacy apps, they could always continue to use an old version of NVDA.

On 12/14/2021 11:31 PM, Gene wrote:
I haven’t followed fixes in NVDA for unsupported programs.  But I think these questions need to be considered when deciding what to support:
How many people are using these old programs and why?  NVDA is used all over the world and blind people of all economic circumstances use it.  There may be good reasons some people are using old versions of programs and Windows.  Is fixing problems in how NVDA works with a specific program worth the time in terms of how many people benefit versus the things that are undone as a result?  At some point, even if the needs of people are taken into account, it may become so difficult and time consuming to fix problems or keep NVDA compatible that the effort would be given up even if [enough people would benefit to have justified such fixes in the past.  I suspect that at times, you can’t maintain compatibility with old programs or versions of Windows while making NVDA work well with new versions because of changes in the new programs.  But I don’t think you benefit people in the best way by applying an arbitrary rule.
 
Gene
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2021 9:58 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Features feedback
 

better support for Microsoft office, especially the editor and spellcheck, fixes for performance losses.

Better support for Firefox, fixes for large table Firefox lags and other Firefox lags.

abandonment of legacy applications. I feel NVAccess should develop a support policy for applications that have no official support, and stick to it. There is no reason why anyone should be using Windows 7, office 2003/2007/2010 etc, and time shouldn't be spent on fixing bugs in obsolete technologies.

On 12/14/2021 5:34 AM, Rui Fontes wrote:

Hello!

 

1 - Better support for Libre Office or Open Office;

2 - Possibility of easily label controls not labelled by develloper;

3 - Better control of what is announced by pressing a key. Take as example Narrator.

 

Rui Fontes

 

Às 04:00 de 14/12/2021, Quentin Christensen escreveu:
I've collated the feedback I've gotten so far from Derek, Bhavya and Joseph.  I've included an overview below and a spreadsheet attached with the full responses:
 
Bhavya:
3 Areas:
- Microsoft Office support (content creation but did not elaborate) and responsiveness
- Freezes and crashes (frustratingly again without examples)
- Portable copies - no issues with it, it's one thing he has observed people LOVE about NVDA and suggests if there are suggestions or ways we could improve this, it would be worthwhile.


Derek:
- Web and Browse mode improvements, especially for modern features such as infinite lists, and why does a tree view hide everything from Browse mode?  Also not tolerant enough of where people have incorrectly marked things up which inadvertently make it impossible for all but very advanced users to navigate.
- Integration with other AT such as speech (input?) and switch access, building on things such as dictation bridge.  (Incorporated praise for features such as sticky keys out of the box which we are the only screen reader to do apparently).
- "Computer Vision" to do things like auto label buttons, auto OCR, present hidden content etc
- since live region abuse is so common, add the ability to block a live region.
- Better support for Google docs, eg quick nav mode.
- Start doing more with the speech refactor we put so much effort into.  For instance to replace some speech with earcons.
- Windows store version - both to prove we are modern and worthy of Windows continued support, and to reassure companies worried about security.

Joseph Lee:
- What we did well in 2021 was communication and keeping up with technology, and with improvements to documentation of issues etc, and our improvements to Office.
- Listening to stakeholders and especially the movement towards the add-on store is another great achievement.

Two key areas for 2022:
- Communication: More documentation through source code
- Research relevance (mostly in terms of people who are researching us or the history of screen readers?)

Anatoliy (Thinking and will get back to me)
 
 
--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager
Re: NVDA Features feedback

Steve Nutt
 
Edited

Also, better outlook support.

 

Just load Narrator, turn on it’s experimental Outlook Efficiency mode, and see how it should be done. It reads an Email when you open it, without re-reading the subject, to and from fields, etc, and it doesn’t fail to automatically read the whole Email, whether it is text or HTML.

 

All the best


Steve

 

--

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Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

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E: steve@...

W: https://www.comproom.co.uk

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: 15 December 2021 03:59
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Features feedback

 

better support for Microsoft office, especially the editor and spellcheck, fixes for performance losses.

Better support for Firefox, fixes for large table Firefox lags and other Firefox lags.

abandonment of legacy applications. I feel NVAccess should develop a support policy for applications that have no official support, and stick to it. There is no reason why anyone should be using Windows 7, office 2003/2007/2010 etc, and time shouldn't be spent on fixing bugs in obsolete technologies.

On 12/14/2021 5:34 AM, Rui Fontes wrote:

Hello!

 

1 - Better support for Libre Office or Open Office;

2 - Possibility of easily label controls not labelled by develloper;

3 - Better control of what is announced by pressing a key. Take as example Narrator.

 

Rui Fontes
Golden Cursor

juergenkohler23@...
 

Hello,
 
I am using the NVDA 21.3 version and have downloaded the latest version of the Golden Cursor addon, which raises some questions for me.
In the Golden Cursor settings in the NVDA menu, there is a check mark next to "Announce new mouse coordinates as soon as the mouse moves". However, when I move the mouse, I hear nothing. Even with the key combination Windows+NVDA+S I can't seem to change anything. I do get a message that the function is switched on or off, but even when it is switched on I do not get the desired information. I can have the pixel coordinates announced via Windows+NVDA+P, but with Shift+NVDA+I I cannot seem to save the coordinates or assign them to the active application.
Even when I navigate on the button in a browser and want to save the mouse position of the button, nothing happens with Shift+NVDA+I.
With Windows+NVDA+C I guess I can switch between some units; but what are they? I only get incomprehensible numerical values...
If I press NVDA+Windows+R, the mouse movement is supposed to be restricted to one application; however, I can still move the mouse as I like...
Can someone explain this to me or have I misunderstood something?
 
I would be very grateful for your help/explanations!
Re: a script's question

Rui Fontes
 

Hi Alexandre!


That question is more suited to add-ons or development list...


I think you need to make a function bind to the arrow key where first is executed your code and then you send the keystroke to the system...


Rui Fontes


Às 09:39 de 15/12/2021, Alexandre Alves Toco escreveu:

Hello!

Wen we press the arrow up key in a text field, nvda will read the new line's content.

So I assume there is an script that is started by this key press.

Now, how do I manage to write a arrow up key script and make nvda to say a text and continue to do exactly what it did before I wrote my script?

I want to use it for some tests.


So my general questions are:

1. how can I know what script is performed when a key press or an event occur if no custon scripts are installed?

2. Is it possible to write a custom scritp and call the original one inside it?
Possible issue when typing with windows 11, office 365 and multiple languages

Nikos Demetriou
 

Hi.
A friend reported the following issue to me, and I was wondering if anyone else is experiencing something simmilar.
I had a quick look at the issues page but I didn't find anything.

Computer with windows 11, nvda 2021.3 and office 365 subscription.

While typing something in microsoft word, when trying to switch language with alt+shift, speetch is lost and to get it back we will have to alt+tab to another window and then back to word.

The 2 languages we are talking about are Greek and English.

The chosen tts is espeak ng.

Thanks
Nikos
Re: a script's question

Martin J. Dürst <duerst@...>
 

Hello Alexandre,

Very good questions. I'm very interested in the answers, too.

But maybe the nvda-devel list (nvda-devel@groups.io) is better suited for such questions. I'm redirecting it there, I hope that's the right thing to do. I'm keeping you in the cc, I hope this works.

Regards, Martin.

On 2021-12-15 18:39, Alexandre Alves Toco via groups.io wrote:
Hello!
Wen we press the arrow up key in a text field, nvda will read the new line's content.
So I assume there is an script that is started by this key press.
Now, how do I manage to write a arrow up key script and make nvda to say a text and continue to do exactly what it did before I wrote my script?
I want to use it for some tests.
So my general questions are:
1. how can I know what script is performed when a key press or an event occur if no custon scripts are installed?
2. Is it possible to write a custom scritp and call the original one inside it?
a script's question

Alexandre Alves Toco
 

Hello!

Wen we press the arrow up key in a text field, nvda will read the new line's content.

So I assume there is an script that is started by this key press.

Now, how do I manage to write a arrow up key script and make nvda to say a text and continue to do exactly what it did before I wrote my script?

I want to use it for some tests.


So my general questions are:

1. how can I know what script is performed when a key press or an event occur if no custon scripts are installed?

2. Is it possible to write a custom scritp and call the original one inside it?
Re: NVDA Features feedback

hurrikennyandopo ...
 
Edited

Hi

 

With the golden cursor if I remember right you need to click on the area like the button then label it then save it. Then when you went back into that part of the software you would bring up the elements list find the button you labled then go to it. I guess that is why they call it a hot spot.

 

 

I know the object enhancer add on was summitted to nvdaaddons.org but have not seen it come up there yet.

 

Not sure what they had to do apart from what you see when it is installed. I think it was only in 2 languages one been english.

 

Gene nz

 

 

Gene nz

 

On 15/12/2021 8:36 pm, Christo de Klerk wrote:
Hello
 
Many thanks for your very helpful message. I heard of the Object enhancer, but had no idea where to get it. I have just installed it and will play around with it.
 
I have Golden Cursor and have been using it with some success, though it is not as convenient as just labelling items would have been.
 
Thanks, I appreciate your suggestions.
 
Kind regards
 
Christo
 
 
On 2021/12/15 12:51am, hurrikennyandopo ... wrote:

Hi Christo

 

I totally agree with you on that. My talk back on my phone can label un labled buttons etc and there are programs out there that need it to use it..The only addons I am aware of is one called object enhancer which can be downloaded from my drop box at https://www.dropbox.com/s/dqnooxmas5utw70/objEnhancer_2019.2beta1_Gen.nvda-addon?dl=0

It works with nvda at present I would have to check with the latest update.

 

Some part of it need updating but am sure the guy who done it does not want to take it any further.

 

The other one is the golden cursor where it lets you label hot spots I have used it on a  scanner with un labled buttons but to get to them you use the elements list no biggy.

 

Gene nz

 

On 15/12/2021 3:53 am, Christo de Klerk wrote:

This has been mentioned already, but I mention it again, as I think this feature is really needed and long overdue: the ability to label unlabelled or poorly labelled controls and graphics. This is one area where NVDA lags way behind other screen readers. Even the late Window-Eyes had this feature.

 

Kind regards

 

Christo
Re: NVDA Features feedback

Christo de Klerk
 
Edited

Hello
 
Many thanks for your very helpful message. I heard of the Object enhancer, but had no idea where to get it. I have just installed it and will play around with it.
 
I have Golden Cursor and have been using it with some success, though it is not as convenient as just labelling items would have been.
 
Thanks, I appreciate your suggestions.
 
Kind regards
 
Christo
 
 

On 2021/12/15 12:51am, hurrikennyandopo ... wrote:

Hi Christo

 

I totally agree with you on that. My talk back on my phone can label un labled buttons etc and there are programs out there that need it to use it..The only addons I am aware of is one called object enhancer which can be downloaded from my drop box at https://www.dropbox.com/s/dqnooxmas5utw70/objEnhancer_2019.2beta1_Gen.nvda-addon?dl=0

It works with nvda at present I would have to check with the latest update.

 

Some part of it need updating but am sure the guy who done it does not want to take it any further.

 

The other one is the golden cursor where it lets you label hot spots I have used it on a  scanner with un labled buttons but to get to them you use the elements list no biggy.

 

Gene nz

 

On 15/12/2021 3:53 am, Christo de Klerk wrote:

This has been mentioned already, but I mention it again, as I think this feature is really needed and long overdue: the ability to label unlabelled or poorly labelled controls and graphics. This is one area where NVDA lags way behind other screen readers. Even the late Window-Eyes had this feature.

 

Kind regards

 

Christo

 
Re: NVDA Features feedback

Christo de Klerk
 
Edited

Hello
 
Many thanks for your very helpful message. I heard of the Object enhancer, but had no idea where to get it. I have just installed it and will play around with it.
 
I have Golden Cursor and have been using it with some success, though it is not as convenient as just labelling items would have been.
 
Thanks, I appreciate your suggestions.
 
Kind regards
 
Christo
 
 

On 2021/12/15 12:51am, hurrikennyandopo ... wrote:

Hi Christo

 

I totally agree with you on that. My talk back on my phone can label un labled buttons etc and there are programs out there that need it to use it..The only addons I am aware of is one called object enhancer which can be downloaded from my drop box at https://www.dropbox.com/s/dqnooxmas5utw70/objEnhancer_2019.2beta1_Gen.nvda-addon?dl=0

It works with nvda at present I would have to check with the latest update.

 

Some part of it need updating but am sure the guy who done it does not want to take it any further.

 

The other one is the golden cursor where it lets you label hot spots I have used it on a  scanner with un labled buttons but to get to them you use the elements list no biggy.

 

Gene nz

 

On 15/12/2021 3:53 am, Christo de Klerk wrote:

This has been mentioned already, but I mention it again, as I think this feature is really needed and long overdue: the ability to label unlabelled or poorly labelled controls and graphics. This is one area where NVDA lags way behind other screen readers. Even the late Window-Eyes had this feature.

 

Kind regards

 

Christo

 
GitHub - numediart/MBROLA-voices: Data files of mbrola speech synthesizer voices do they work with nvda

hurrikennyandopo ...
 

Hi guys


I got asked if there was a maori voice that can be used with the nvda screen reader. I told the guy I was unsure then come across the following page at https://github.com/numediart/MBROLA-voices

There it shows different voices that can be used one of them been the language he wants.


Does any one have a clue how to install the synth package or run time etc for windows. It looks as though there must be a setup file to install then you have to copy the voice into that folder they specify.


Would it then work with the nvda screen reader?


If it does could some one give directions on what to do to get the aori language to work.


Then I can share how to do it for the other languages.


Gene nz
Re: NVDA Features feedback

Gene
 
Edited

I haven’t followed fixes in NVDA for unsupported programs.  But I think these questions need to be considered when deciding what to support:
How many people are using these old programs and why?  NVDA is used all over the world and blind people of all economic circumstances use it.  There may be good reasons some people are using old versions of programs and Windows.  Is fixing problems in how NVDA works with a specific program worth the time in terms of how many people benefit versus the things that are undone as a result?  At some point, even if the needs of people are taken into account, it may become so difficult and time consuming to fix problems or keep NVDA compatible that the effort would be given up even if [enough people would benefit to have justified such fixes in the past.  I suspect that at times, you can’t maintain compatibility with old programs or versions of Windows while making NVDA work well with new versions because of changes in the new programs.  But I don’t think you benefit people in the best way by applying an arbitrary rule.
 
Gene
Re: Problem while connected orbit reader with USB Hid Mode... with latest nvda version

Joseph Lee
 

Hi,

Can you try NVDA 2021.3.1 RC 1 and see if that makes a difference?

Cheers,

Joseph
Re: NVDA Features feedback

enes sarıbaş
 
Edited

better support for Microsoft office, especially the editor and spellcheck, fixes for performance losses.

Better support for Firefox, fixes for large table Firefox lags and other Firefox lags.

abandonment of legacy applications. I feel NVAccess should develop a support policy for applications that have no official support, and stick to it. There is no reason why anyone should be using Windows 7, office 2003/2007/2010 etc, and time shouldn't be spent on fixing bugs in obsolete technologies.

On 12/14/2021 5:34 AM, Rui Fontes wrote:

Hello!

 

1 - Better support for Libre Office or Open Office;

2 - Possibility of easily label controls not labelled by develloper;

3 - Better control of what is announced by pressing a key. Take as example Narrator.

 

Rui Fontes
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