Date   

Re: about addon development guide

Martin J. Dürst <duerst@...>
 

Sorry, in my previous mail, the links contained spaces, so they may not be read correctly, and may not be easy to activate. Fixed below (using %20, which is the same as space for the server).

Hope this works this time. Martin.

On 2021-12-20 12:33, Martin J. Dürst via groups.io wrote:
Hello Joseph,
On 2021-12-20 02:31, Joseph Lee via groups.io wrote:
Hi,

Are you talking about add-on development guide found on GitHub? If so, I need to know exactly what the guide says so the author (I) can edit it.
[Warning: Lots of links ahead.]
This is just a guess, but it could be that the original poster referred to the section "Introduction to app modules"
(https://github.com/nvdaaddons/devguide/wiki/NVDA%20Add-on%20Development%20Guide#user-content-introduction-to-app-modules)
in your guide.
The first example in that section is indeed "Example 2: Simple app module in Notepad"
(https://github.com/nvdaaddons/devguide/wiki/NVDA%20Add-on%20Development%20Guide#user-content-example-2-simple-app-module-in-notepad).
There is an "Example 1" a bit earlier, namely "Example 1: Writing computer braille using QWERTY keyboard"
(https://github.com/nvdaaddons/devguide/wiki/NVDA%20Add-on%20Development%20Guide#user-content-example-1-writing-computer-braille-using-qwerty-keyboard). But this example is in the proceeding section, on global plugins
(https://github.com/nvdaaddons/devguide/wiki/NVDA%20Add-on%20Development%20Guide#user-content-introduction-to-global-plugins).
Hope this helps,   Martin.

Cheers,

Joseph
.
--
Prof. Dr.sc. Martin J. Dürst
Department of Intelligent Information Technology
College of Science and Engineering
Aoyama Gakuin University
Fuchinobe 5-1-10, Chuo-ku, Sagamihara
252-5258 Japan


Re: NVDA Isn't Reading HTML In WinPE

Gene
 

For whatever reason, Browse mode isn’t working.  My guess is that the PE you are using doesn’t have the files to support it.  As I recall, even if you read messages in Thunderbird set to plain text, browse mode is still necessary.  I just checked and it is. 
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2021 10:10 PM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA Isn't Reading HTML In WinPE
 
Hello,

  My windows 7 seems to be hosed, I'm working on making it work, but for
  now, I have to use WinPE for getting on-line and I'm using T Bird
  portable for email, which I don't care much for, and I'll use a portable
  browser too.

  But I'm having a problem with NVDA, both the copy that comes with WinPE
  and the portable I am using now.

  I cannot get it to read any HTML windows.

  When I want to read email, I have to copy the message after opening it,
  and paste it into notepad, and then NVDA will read it.

  I cannot read web pages either without doing the same thing with notepad
Since I only notice this in WinPE, it may have something to do with that.
This is a Windows 10 WinPE.
Thanks, but I don't thinki it has Narrator.






NVDA Isn't Reading HTML In WinPE

Glenn / Lenny
 

Hello,

 My windows 7 seems to be hosed, I'm working on making it work, but for
 now, I have to use WinPE for getting on-line and I'm using T Bird
 portable for email, which I don't care much for, and I'll use a portable
 browser too.

 But I'm having a problem with NVDA, both the copy that comes with WinPE
 and the portable I am using now.

 I cannot get it to read any HTML windows.

 When I want to read email, I have to copy the message after opening it,
 and paste it into notepad, and then NVDA will read it.

 I cannot read web pages either without doing the same thing with notepad
Since I only notice this in WinPE, it may have something to do with that.
This is a Windows 10 WinPE.
Thanks, but I don't thinki it has Narrator.


Re: about addon development guide

Martin J. Dürst <duerst@...>
 

Hello Joseph,

On 2021-12-20 02:31, Joseph Lee via groups.io wrote:
Hi,
Are you talking about add-on development guide found on GitHub? If so, I need to know exactly what the guide says so the author (I) can edit it.
[Warning: Lots of links ahead.]

This is just a guess, but it could be that the original poster referred to the section "Introduction to app modules"
(https://github.com/nvdaaddons/devguide/wiki/NVDA Add-on Development Guide#user-content-introduction-to-app-modules)
in your guide.

The first example in that section is indeed "Example 2: Simple app module in Notepad"
(https://github.com/nvdaaddons/devguide/wiki/NVDA Add-on Development Guide#user-content-example-2-simple-app-module-in-notepad).

There is an "Example 1" a bit earlier, namely "Example 1: Writing computer braille using QWERTY keyboard"
(https://github.com/nvdaaddons/devguide/wiki/NVDA Add-on Development Guide#user-content-example-1-writing-computer-braille-using-qwerty-keyboard).

But this example is in the proceeding section, on global plugins
(https://github.com/nvdaaddons/devguide/wiki/NVDA Add-on Development Guide#user-content-introduction-to-global-plugins).

Hope this helps, Martin.


Cheers,
Joseph


locked Re: GMail Basic Setting With NVDA

 

On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 06:41 PM, Nimer Jaber wrote:
Now, let's please close this topic.
-
Actually, I'm now locking this topic.  There's been a ton of very useful information exchange, but it long ago went into "about Gmail and its standard interface and web app" territory.

This is a worthy subject, but not on topic for the NVDA main group.  I would encourage anyone who wishes to pursue this further and in more depth to please start a dedicated topic in the Chat Subgroup to do so.  Most topics there are technical in nature, but about things, of which Gmail is a perfect example, that NVDA is being used to access but where not a single thing specific to NVDA is directly involved.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

        ~ Dorothy Nevill

 


locked Re: GMail Basic Setting With NVDA

Nimer Jaber
 

Hello Dzhovani,

The reason to learn Gmail in standard mode is that many people use Gmail for personal email. Many companies use Google Workspace for their email, which has the same interface as Gmail. Any time you log into a computer, you can immediately log into the web interface, an access your email in a quick and efficient manner. You don't need to request an accommodation to use an email client, you don't need to set one up, you don't need to worry about what is synced where, you don't need to think about logging into a web interface to delete things that your email client won't, and most of the issues that people raise with email clients on the various lists I'm on will magically disappear. You don't need to enable a less secure mode for getting messages in your email client. I could keep going on, but using your logic, there is less friction in learning the most commonly used email provider, than, say, an email client. If you get a new computer, you will also need to work out how you've set up your email program in the past, possibly get permission to install it, etc., etc. With Gmail, the very first time you use it on any computer, you need to enable keyboard shortcuts. This isn't even the case with some other webmail providers, like Outlook. Once done, every time you log into any machine at all, any email preferences will be preserved, and you won't need to think about how to access your email, which setting you changed a long time ago, whether Thunderbird is getting more or less accessible, etc., etc.

As you say, and as I've said, each person must use what works best for them. Nobody is telling anyone what to use or not use. I just urge people to try to learn the standard mode, rathen than continuing to use the basic HTML mode and perpetuate nonsense that the standard mode isn't accessible or usable. If what you use works for you, continue to use it, and be done with it.

Now, let's please close this topic.


On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 1:02 AM Dzhovani <dzhovani.chemishanov@...> wrote:
Hi all,
It seems that the discussion has drifted away since I last checked it, but I'd like to clarify my point in regard to the so called "standard view of gmail" and the actual html standards.
It seems that many people live only in GMail and use only it. That's okay. If you spend lots of time in there, it makes sense to invest in getting to know it. On the other hand, due to work requirements and personal needs, I've been in the situation to use up to four different email providers at the same time. If I learn the combinations of every website I use, I'll spend 80% of my time learning stuff that I need only 20% of the time. So, yes, I'm using an email client. Learning the combinations of an email client is worth it, because it is a multiplier. Once learned, those combinations help everywhere there is an inbox to be sifted through.
Of course, I'm not totally against learning an app, be it web or not. However, I should spend lots of time in it and preferably get money or lots of satisfaction out of it. In all other cases, I'd like to use standard tools with standard protocols, and standard key combinations. It will not provide me with the best possible experience, but the cost/benefit analysis is rather much in favor of that.
Please, do not assume that everyone has the same needs as you and that they are able or willing to make the same trade offs. A well-designed system could be used reasonably well under different levels of proficiency and with different assumptions broken. The term "progressive enhancement" comes to mind and if a website breaks it, it better have a very good reason to do that. Otherwise, god only knows what other stuff they are doing wrong.
Sorry for the rand.
Regards,
Dzhovani


locked Re: GMail Basic Setting With NVDA

Gene
 

I’ll try those methods and see what I think.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2021 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] GMail Basic Setting With NVDA
 
I see no command to place me at the start of the message body when opening a message. 
n will read each message. If you wish to read by line, it is simple to get out of focus mode, then press your screen reader's next text or paragraph command to jump past the header information. When pressing n, you can have each message read to you.
I see no command to place me in the body edit field when replying
You are automatically placed in the body when replying. Press r to reply, a to reply all, etc., and you are in the body automatically.
nor to place me in the to line or the addressbook when starting a new message.
When composing a message, you are automatically placed in the "to"
 
On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 4:18 AM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
I have a question which I’ll make brief because the topicdc has evolved away from NVDA. 
 
I’ve looked at all the shortcut keys as far as I can tell and played a bit with the standard interface.  The following abilities appear to be lacking, which makes the interface less efficient than using an e-mail program, even if it is as efficient in all other ways..
 
I see no command to place me at the start of the message body when opening a message.  I see no command to place me in the body edit field when replying nor to place me in the to line or the addressbook when starting a new message.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Dzhovani
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2021 3:02 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] GMail Basic Setting With NVDA
 
Hi all,
It seems that the discussion has drifted away since I last checked it, but I'd like to clarify my point in regard to the so called "standard view of gmail" and the actual html standards.
It seems that many people live only in GMail and use only it. That's okay. If you spend lots of time in there, it makes sense to invest in getting to know it. On the other hand, due to work requirements and personal needs, I've been in the situation to use up to four different email providers at the same time. If I learn the combinations of every website I use, I'll spend 80% of my time learning stuff that I need only 20% of the time. So, yes, I'm using an email client. Learning the combinations of an email client is worth it, because it is a multiplier. Once learned, those combinations help everywhere there is an inbox to be sifted through.
Of course, I'm not totally against learning an app, be it web or not. However, I should spend lots of time in it and preferably get money or lots of satisfaction out of it. In all other cases, I'd like to use standard tools with standard protocols, and standard key combinations. It will not provide me with the best possible experience, but the cost/benefit analysis is rather much in favor of that.
Please, do not assume that everyone has the same needs as you and that they are able or willing to make the same trade offs. A well-designed system could be used reasonably well under different levels of proficiency and with different assumptions broken. The term "progressive enhancement" comes to mind and if a website breaks it, it better have a very good reason to do that. Otherwise, god only knows what other stuff they are doing wrong.
Sorry for the rand.
Regards,
Dzhovani
 
 
--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

Thank you, and have a great day!


locked Re: GMail Basic Setting With NVDA

Nimer Jaber
 

I see no command to place me at the start of the message body when opening a message.  
n will read each message. If you wish to read by line, it is simple to get out of focus mode, then press your screen reader's next text or paragraph command to jump past the header information. When pressing n, you can have each message read to you.
I see no command to place me in the body edit field when replying 
You are automatically placed in the body when replying. Press r to reply, a to reply all, etc., and you are in the body automatically.
nor to place me in the to line or the addressbook when starting a new message.
When composing a message, you are automatically placed in the "to"

On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 4:18 AM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
I have a question which I’ll make brief because the topicdc has evolved away from NVDA. 
 
I’ve looked at all the shortcut keys as far as I can tell and played a bit with the standard interface.  The following abilities appear to be lacking, which makes the interface less efficient than using an e-mail program, even if it is as efficient in all other ways..
 
I see no command to place me at the start of the message body when opening a message.  I see no command to place me in the body edit field when replying nor to place me in the to line or the addressbook when starting a new message.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Dzhovani
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2021 3:02 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] GMail Basic Setting With NVDA
 
Hi all,
It seems that the discussion has drifted away since I last checked it, but I'd like to clarify my point in regard to the so called "standard view of gmail" and the actual html standards.
It seems that many people live only in GMail and use only it. That's okay. If you spend lots of time in there, it makes sense to invest in getting to know it. On the other hand, due to work requirements and personal needs, I've been in the situation to use up to four different email providers at the same time. If I learn the combinations of every website I use, I'll spend 80% of my time learning stuff that I need only 20% of the time. So, yes, I'm using an email client. Learning the combinations of an email client is worth it, because it is a multiplier. Once learned, those combinations help everywhere there is an inbox to be sifted through.
Of course, I'm not totally against learning an app, be it web or not. However, I should spend lots of time in it and preferably get money or lots of satisfaction out of it. In all other cases, I'd like to use standard tools with standard protocols, and standard key combinations. It will not provide me with the best possible experience, but the cost/benefit analysis is rather much in favor of that.
Please, do not assume that everyone has the same needs as you and that they are able or willing to make the same trade offs. A well-designed system could be used reasonably well under different levels of proficiency and with different assumptions broken. The term "progressive enhancement" comes to mind and if a website breaks it, it better have a very good reason to do that. Otherwise, god only knows what other stuff they are doing wrong.
Sorry for the rand.
Regards,
Dzhovani



--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

Thank you, and have a great day!


locked Re: GMail Basic Setting With NVDA

Sarah k Alawami
 

I don’t know all of it but  what I learned took me about 10 minutes of reading, trying, crying and throwing my computer out the window, then trying again. I had no choice at the time as my other computer broke and this one had no email client at the time. Now that I use standard view, I love it.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2021 9:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] GMail Basic Setting With NVDA

 

Hi, Nimer,

 

Yes, learning the standard view will take some time to learn but it’s well worth it. I’m just studying a tutorial right now.

 

Rosemarie

 

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Nimer Jaber
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2021 8:08 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] GMail Basic Setting With NVDA

 

Hello,

 

I can assure you that most email tasks can be accomplished with the same or less time using the standard interface, than what can be done with any email client. Yes, this will take some learning, especially if you aren't used to using web apps, but more and more web apps are being designed to provide better accessibility to dynamic content, so if you aren't familiar with their use, I suggest starting to learn. As an example, in the standard interface of Gmail, you can easily use arrow keys to traverse through your message list, and you can use simple letter commands to accomplish tasks such as reply, forward, archive, etc.

 

If you choose to use the Gmail standard interface as you would any other website, and you tab through the entire site, you will, indeed, discover that it is cluttered, and you will hate it very much. If, instead, you use it the way it is intended to be used, with provided web app commands, you will not notice the clutter, as your efficiency will dramatically improve.

 

Nonetheless, this topic has drifted away from NVDA. If you want to use Gmail, use it. If you like the standard interface, great. If you don't, provide feedback to improve it, spend more time learning it, or continue to use what you're comfortable with. I am not going to change your mind if you've chosen to use whatever technology you've used for years, that is working for you. If that technology remains available, if you are comfortable with it, if you are comfortable with its limitations, possible lack of support by screen readers and other accessibility tools,  and possible security repercussions, then continue to use whatever you like, even Outlook Express, if that suits you.

 

Now, let's get back to discussing NVDA, please.

 

On Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 7:52 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

Why don’t you use an e-mail program?  I haven’t used the webmail interface Google offers enough to say this as a definite opinion but I will say that I’ve not found a webmail interface that was as fast and convenient as working with an e-mail program as a blind person.

 

I haven’t used either Google interface much, but it appears to me that if you want to, you can use the standard interface similarly to how you use the Simple HTML interface.  I’m not saying you should or shouldn’t.  My impression is that those who learn to use the standard interface well think it is much better than the simple interface.  But I’m saying that if you want to use the standard interface in the same approximate way as you work with the simple interface, it looks to me as though that may well be able to be done.  I can move from message to message in the standard interface by using the move to the next check box command.  I don’t know this, but I suspect that is how you move currently in the simple view.  I use GMail to look at my spam and mark messages as not spam.  That’s how I move from message to message.  I’ve played with that command in both views out of curiosity and it appears to be roughly equivalent in ease of use.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2021 9:28 PM

Subject: [nvda] Gmail Basic Setting with NVDA

 

Hello NVDA,
I chose this post title because I use NVDA instead of Narrator to do
just about everything on the computer. I know that offended one
respondent early on, but notice the topic has evolved.
To access basic setting, I go into Gmail, hit control-home and hear
NVDA say, Basic.
I press enter, and voila, 95% of the time it works. When it does not
work, I repeat the entire process.
There does not appear to be something in settings any longer to
exercise the choice between Standard and Basic; Brian is right about
that issue.

I agree with Jackie, Standard feels like a cluttered mess and knowing
where to begin is anyone's guess.

Basic is 'a hell' of a lot easier.

I did see something in Google results discussing the Gmail change from
the New York Times dated either 2018 or 2019. I did not read the
article.

I have an outlook.com email, and if the day comes when it is needful
to say good-bye to Gmail, I will hop onto Outlook, and notify all
needing to know of my change.

Yes, I do have much to learn, and doubt I will know it all before my
time on the planet ends. I think most of us do what we can to keep up
with technology, but like any other subject requiring skill set, some
have it more than others per the named subject.

Thank you for allowing this topic to be discussed even if it belongs
in the Chat Group. Since I use NVDA, in my not so humble opinion, the
topic belongs in either group.
Cheers,

--
David C. Russell, Author
david.sonofhashem@...



 

--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

Thank you, and have a great day!

 


locked Re: GMail Basic Setting With NVDA

Sarah k Alawami
 

If you hit the question mark while in the standard view a table will pop up with all of the key strokes. I  use j, k, * plus  a,  number sign, applications key, yes you can right click on a message to do stuff as well. I think that’s it for me.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sam Bushman
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2021 8:17 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] GMail Basic Setting With NVDA

 

I would be interested if someone could provide me a list of commands for the standard interface – and nake a quick use run through.

Is there such an audio training or docs on that?

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2021 9:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] GMail Basic Setting With NVDA

 

Hello,

 

I can assure you that most email tasks can be accomplished with the same or less time using the standard interface, than what can be done with any email client. Yes, this will take some learning, especially if you aren't used to using web apps, but more and more web apps are being designed to provide better accessibility to dynamic content, so if you aren't familiar with their use, I suggest starting to learn. As an example, in the standard interface of Gmail, you can easily use arrow keys to traverse through your message list, and you can use simple letter commands to accomplish tasks such as reply, forward, archive, etc.

 

If you choose to use the Gmail standard interface as you would any other website, and you tab through the entire site, you will, indeed, discover that it is cluttered, and you will hate it very much. If, instead, you use it the way it is intended to be used, with provided web app commands, you will not notice the clutter, as your efficiency will dramatically improve.

 

Nonetheless, this topic has drifted away from NVDA. If you want to use Gmail, use it. If you like the standard interface, great. If you don't, provide feedback to improve it, spend more time learning it, or continue to use what you're comfortable with. I am not going to change your mind if you've chosen to use whatever technology you've used for years, that is working for you. If that technology remains available, if you are comfortable with it, if you are comfortable with its limitations, possible lack of support by screen readers and other accessibility tools,  and possible security repercussions, then continue to use whatever you like, even Outlook Express, if that suits you.

 

Now, let's get back to discussing NVDA, please.

 

On Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 7:52 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

Why don’t you use an e-mail program?  I haven’t used the webmail interface Google offers enough to say this as a definite opinion but I will say that I’ve not found a webmail interface that was as fast and convenient as working with an e-mail program as a blind person.

 

I haven’t used either Google interface much, but it appears to me that if you want to, you can use the standard interface similarly to how you use the Simple HTML interface.  I’m not saying you should or shouldn’t.  My impression is that those who learn to use the standard interface well think it is much better than the simple interface.  But I’m saying that if you want to use the standard interface in the same approximate way as you work with the simple interface, it looks to me as though that may well be able to be done.  I can move from message to message in the standard interface by using the move to the next check box command.  I don’t know this, but I suspect that is how you move currently in the simple view.  I use GMail to look at my spam and mark messages as not spam.  That’s how I move from message to message.  I’ve played with that command in both views out of curiosity and it appears to be roughly equivalent in ease of use.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2021 9:28 PM

Subject: [nvda] Gmail Basic Setting with NVDA

 

Hello NVDA,
I chose this post title because I use NVDA instead of Narrator to do
just about everything on the computer. I know that offended one
respondent early on, but notice the topic has evolved.
To access basic setting, I go into Gmail, hit control-home and hear
NVDA say, Basic.
I press enter, and voila, 95% of the time it works. When it does not
work, I repeat the entire process.
There does not appear to be something in settings any longer to
exercise the choice between Standard and Basic; Brian is right about
that issue.

I agree with Jackie, Standard feels like a cluttered mess and knowing
where to begin is anyone's guess.

Basic is 'a hell' of a lot easier.

I did see something in Google results discussing the Gmail change from
the New York Times dated either 2018 or 2019. I did not read the
article.

I have an outlook.com email, and if the day comes when it is needful
to say good-bye to Gmail, I will hop onto Outlook, and notify all
needing to know of my change.

Yes, I do have much to learn, and doubt I will know it all before my
time on the planet ends. I think most of us do what we can to keep up
with technology, but like any other subject requiring skill set, some
have it more than others per the named subject.

Thank you for allowing this topic to be discussed even if it belongs
in the Chat Group. Since I use NVDA, in my not so humble opinion, the
topic belongs in either group.
Cheers,

--
David C. Russell, Author
david.sonofhashem@...



 

--

Best,

Nimer Jaber

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

Thank you, and have a great day!


Re: How to copy NVDA user settings before logging into windows without the need for add-ons that are installed in NVDA?

Rowen Cary
 

Hi,

I believe I understand what you mean, not all add-ons are suitable for being applied to the secure desktop, but the fact now is that NVDA can’t choose which add-ons can be applied to the secure desktop at all. This is really urgent, There is a related issue on github repo, and hope that NVAccess will consider implementing it as soon as possible.

Thanks


Re: about addon development guide

 

Hi,

Are you talking about add-on development guide found on GitHub? If so, I need to know exactly what the guide says so the author (I) can edit it.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: about addon development guide

 

On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 07:49 AM, =?ISO-2022-JP?Q?=1B$B9b=4082=22=1B=28J?= wrote:
Why the examples are not ordered? The first example is example 2.
-
This query is far more likely to get the attention it deserves, and the answer you seek, if posed on the NVDA Add-Ons Central Group.  Addresses are listed in the section (as they are for any Groups.io group) named Group Email Addresses, on the group's home page, to which I gave the link.

Development related questions are best asked on the previously noted group for Add-Ons, and the NVDA Screen Reader Development group for NVDA itself.

Both of these groups are aimed more at coders/developers rather than end users, which are the target demographic for the NVDA group.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

        ~ Dorothy Nevill

 


locked Re: Test Messages, please avoid sending them. was: deneme #adminnotice

 

I had literally deleted this topic from the archive a few minutes ago, since neither message had any content in it.

We ask that test messages not be sent to the group.  Please just send your first message that asks something or offers assistance.  You know in a matter of minutes whether everything's working, or something needs attention, depending on whether that message does, or does not, show up.

Also, and this is in the welcome message, for our newest members please remember that your first message to the group will be held for review and approval as is Groups.io default.  So you may send something that does not show up for a while if both Nimer and I happen to be otherwise occupied (including sleeping) and you are on the other side of the world.  Rest assured, though, that it will be reviewed in less than 24 hours and after your initial message has been released subsequent messages will just go out to the group.

This topic is now locked.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

        ~ Dorothy Nevill

 


Re: NVDA speaking numbers

JinYoun
 

Thank you Brian. Always appreciate your expertise. 🙏😊


locked Re: Test Messages, please avoid sending them. was: deneme #adminnotice

Shawn
 

That means test in Turkish, it’s a test message rofl. Well, Bu bir başarıydı! No, I don’t speak Turkish, but Google does.

Shawn Klein

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: mehmet çetin
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2021 9:03 AM
To: nvda ingilizce gurubu
Subject: [nvda] deneme

 

 

 


Re: Showing a bit about object review

Gene
 

I’m sorry, but I’m sending another copy of the corrected tutorial.  Please disregard the one I sent immediately previously.  I found an instance where I gave the move to next object command incorrectly that I didn’t realize was there.  I have now replaced all instances of the incorrect command.
 
This is a corrected version of the tutorial I sent the list.  I made an error in giving the move to next object and move to previous object commands in the original version.  The correct commands are move to next object, numpad insert plus numpad 6.  Move to previous object, numpad insert plus numpad 4.  I corrected the commands in the tutorial itself but I’m stating them here as well.
 
the tutorial begins immediately below.
 
Given all the discussion of object review, I’ve prepared a short, or rather short, tutorial teaching something about object navigation and showing the difference between it and screen review.  Listening at a moderate speed, my guess is that it will take somewhere between about seven and ten minutes to listen to.  Of course, doing what I describe will take a little longer or perhaps more, depending on how much you want to play and repeat things to aid memory and perhaps understanding.
 
I hope some people find it useful. 
 
Many people may be wondering what is being talked about and this will give those who are curious some idea. 
I hope it also encourages those who would benefit from learning object navigation to do so.  It may also demystify the subject to an extent and give people more confidence that they can learn and understand object navigation.
 
I think most, perhaps almost all, of object navigation is better taught by having people do things rather than by mainly explaining them. 
 
This tutorial will teach something about moving in an object and from one object to another object.  It will also show how objects can vary radically in size and it may clear up confusion some people may have about when they are moving through an object or reviewing the screen.  I suspect a fair number of people may have this confusion.
 
I shall use desktop layout commands.  I don’t use nor know the laptop layout commands.  Someone may want to provide them.
 
We will use WordPad for our examples.
First, issue the command numpad insert plus numpad 1 until you hear no previous review mode.  That is to make sure you didn’t use screen review and forget to go back.  Object navigation is the default but I want to make sure everyone is using it.
 
Now, do the following:
Open WordPad.  Type a bit of text.  Now issue the close command.  You are in the are you sure dialog.
Press the following keys and listen to all speech.
Numpad 8.
Numpad 7.
Numpad 9.
Numpad 8 reads the current line in the object you are in.  You hear save.
Numpad 7 moves back one line in the object.
You hear top, save.
That’s because there is no previous line.
Numpad 9 moves you to the next line in the object.  You hear bottom, save because there is no next line.
This is a small object.  It is only one button.  Button isn’t announced for some reason but it is a save button.
Now, let’s move to the next object to the right.  Issue the command numpad insert plus numpad 6. 
You have now moved to the next object.  It is a bit of text, the do you want to save question.  For some reason, this dialog doesn’t work as expected when moving to next and previous objects.  Usually, if you move to the next and previous objects, you will get to the last one in the direction you are moving.  At that point, you will hear either no previous or no next.
To move to the right by object the command is numpad insert plus numpad 6.  To move to the left, the command is numpad insert numpad 4. 
Each time you move to another object, you can use the review keys I showed you earlier to see if you can move around the object and read the current line.  That is, numpad 7, back line, numpad 8, say current line, numpad 9, forward one line.
 
If you were using screen review, you would use the same commands to review the screen, numpad 8, 7, and 9.  You would be moving in the screen, not specifically in an object. 
 
At times objects are small as these are, at times they are very large. 
 
To see a very large or a larger object, finish closing WordPad, then open a large document in WordPad.  Either that or open WordPad and type a number of lines of text. 
If you use numpad 9 to move through the document, you will find that you can move through the entire document.  The entire document is one object. 
If you were using screen review, you would only be able to move as far up or down as the screen that is now visible. 
 
The command to go into screen review, if you want to experiment, is numpad insert plus numpad 7.  There may be another mode, document review, but keep moving until you get to screen review.  Don’t forget to go back to object review when you are finished in screen review.  If you don’t, some things you do may not work as expected.
 
There are times when you can see things using screen review that you can’t using object review.  There are times when the opposite is true.  One isn’t better or more useful than the other, though one may be of more use to a person, depending on how they use a computer, in other words, what programs they run and perhaps, how they work with certain programs. 
 
I hope this short tutorial is useful.
 
Gene


Re: Showing a bit about object review

Gene
 

This is a corrected version of the tutorial I sent the list.  I made an error in giving the move to next object and move to previous object commands in the original version.  The correct commands are move to next object, numpad insert plus numpad 6.  Move to previous object, numpad insert plus numpad 4.  I corrected the commands in the tutorial itself but I’m stating them here as well.
 
the tutorial begins immediately below.
 
Given all the discussion of object review, I’ve prepared a short, or rather short, tutorial teaching something about object navigation and showing the difference between it and screen review.  Listening at a moderate speed, my guess is that it will take somewhere between about seven and ten minutes to listen to.  Of course, doing what I describe will take a little longer or perhaps more, depending on how much you want to play and repeat things to aid memory and perhaps understanding.
 
I hope some people find it useful. 
 
Many people may be wondering what is being talked about and this will give those who are curious some idea. 
I hope it also encourages those who would benefit from learning object navigation to do so.  It may also demystify the subject to an extent and give people more confidence that they can learn and understand object navigation.
 
I think most, perhaps almost all, of object navigation is better taught by having people do things rather than by mainly explaining them. 
 
This tutorial will teach something about moving in an object and from one object to another object.  It will also show how objects can vary radically in size and it may clear up confusion some people may have about when they are moving through an object or reviewing the screen.  I suspect a fair number of people may have this confusion.
 
I shall use desktop layout commands.  I don’t use nor know the laptop layout commands.  Someone may want to provide them.
 
We will use WordPad for our examples.
First, issue the command numpad insert plus numpad 1 until you hear no previous review mode.  That is to make sure you didn’t use screen review and forget to go back.  Object navigation is the default but I want to make sure everyone is using it.
 
Now, do the following:
Open WordPad.  Type a bit of text.  Now issue the close command.  You are in the are you sure dialog.
Press the following keys and listen to all speech.
Numpad 8.
Numpad 7.
Numpad 9.
Numpad 8 reads the current line in the object you are in.  You hear save.
Numpad 7 moves back one line in the object.
You hear top, save.
That’s because there is no previous line.
Numpad 9 moves you to the next line in the object.  You hear bottom, save because there is no next line.
This is a small object.  It is only one button.  Button isn’t announced for some reason but it is a save button.
Now, let’s move to the next object to the right.  Issue the command numpad insert plus numpad 9. 
You have now moved to the next object.  It is a bit of text, the do you want to save question.  For some reason, this dialog doesn’t work as expected when moving to next and previous objects.  Usually, if you move to the next and previous objects, you will get to the last one in the direction you are moving.  At that point, you will hear either no previous or no next.
To move to the right by object the command is numpad insert plus numpad 6.  To move to the left, the command is numpad insert numpad 4. 
Each time you move to another object, you can use the review keys I showed you earlier to see if you can move around the object and read the current line.  That is, numpad 7, back line, numpad 8, say current line, numpad 9, forward one line.
 
If you were using screen review, you would use the same commands to review the screen, numpad 8, 7, and 9.  You would be moving in the screen, not specifically in an object. 
 
At times objects are small as these are, at times they are very large. 
 
To see a very large or a larger object, finish closing WordPad, then open a large document in WordPad.  Either that or open WordPad and type a number of lines of text. 
If you use numpad 9 to move through the document, you will find that you can move through the entire document.  The entire document is one object. 
If you were using screen review, you would only be able to move as far up or down as the screen that is now visible. 
 
The command to go into screen review, if you want to experiment, is numpad insert plus numpad 7.  There may be another mode, document review, but keep moving until you get to screen review.  Don’t forget to go back to object review when you are finished in screen review.  If you don’t, some things you do may not work as expected.
 
There are times when you can see things using screen review that you can’t using object review.  There are times when the opposite is true.  One isn’t better or more useful than the other, though one may be of more use to a person, depending on how they use a computer, in other words, what programs they run and perhaps, how they work with certain programs. 
 
I hope this short tutorial is useful.
 
Gene


Re: Showing a bit about object review

Gene
 

An important correction.
 
I just got a message pointing out that I gave two incorrect commands.  The commands for move to next object and move to previous object are numpad insert numpad 6 and numpad insert numpad 4. 
 
I looked at the tutorial before I sent it to look for errors but I didn’t realize I had made those.  Sometimes, you write something like a command and even when you review what you write, you don’t realize it is incorrect.  I’ve used those commands for years but for some reason, I was thinking about them incorrectly, even though I was using them while writing the tutorial to look at what I saw when moving that way in Wordpad.
 
I’ll send a corrected version of the tutorial to the list. 
 
Brian, would you please remove the first message giving the incorrect version from the archives?  Thank you.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2021 5:07 PM
Subject: Showing a bit about object review
 
Given all the discussion of object review, I’ve prepared a short, or rather short, tutorial teaching something about object navigation and showing the difference between it and screen review.  Listening at a moderate speed, my guess is that it will take somewhere between about seven and ten minutes to listen to.  Of course, doing what I describe will take a little longer or perhaps more, depending on how much you want to play and repeat things to aid memory and perhaps understanding.
 
I hope some people find it useful. 
 
Many people may be wondering what is being talked about and this will give those who are curious some idea. 
I hope it also encourages those who would benefit from learning object navigation to do so.  It may also demystify the subject to an extent and give people more confidence that they can learn and understand object navigation.
 
I think most, perhaps almost all, of object navigation is better taught by having people do things rather than by mainly explaining them. 
 
This tutorial will teach something about moving in an object and from one object to another object.  It will also show how objects can vary radically in size and it may clear up confusion some people may have about when they are moving through an object or reviewing the screen.  I suspect a fair number of people may have this confusion.
 
I shall use desktop layout commands.  I don’t use nor know the laptop layout commands.  Someone may want to provide them.
 
We will use WordPad for our examples.
First, issue the command numpad insert plus numpad 1 until you hear no previous review mode.  That is to make sure you didn’t use screen review and forget to go back.  Object navigation is the default but I want to make sure everyone is using it.
 
Now, do the following:
Open WordPad.  Type a bit of text.  Now issue the close command.  You are in the are you sure dialog.
Press the following keys and listen to all speech.
Numpad 8.
Numpad 7.
Numpad 9.
Numpad 8 reads the current line in the object you are in.  You hear save.
Numpad 7 moves back one line in the object.
You hear top, save.
That’s because there is no previous line.
Numpad 9 moves you to the next line in the object.  You hear bottom, save because there is no next line.
This is a small object.  It is only one button.  Button isn’t announced for some reason but it is a save button.
Now, let’s move to the next object to the right.  Issue the command numpad insert plus numpad 9. 
You have now moved to the next object.  It is a bit of text, the do you want to save question.  For some reason, this dialog doesn’t work as expected when moving to next and previous objects.  Usually, if you move to the next and previous objects, you will get to the last one in the direction you are moving.  At that point, you will hear either no previous or no next.
To move to the right by object the command is numpad insert plus numpad 9.  To move to the left, the command is numpad insert numpad 7. 
Each time you move to another object, you can use the review keys I showed you earlier to see if you can move around the object and read the current line.  That is, numpad 7, back line, numpad 8, say current line, numpad 9, forward one line.
 
If you were using screen review, you would use the same commands to review the screen, numpad 8, 7, and 9.  You would be moving in the screen, not specifically in an object. 
 
At times objects are small as these are, at times they are very large. 
 
To see a very large or a larger object, finish closing WordPad, then open a large document in WordPad.  Either that or open WordPad and type a number of lines of text. 
If you use numpad 9 to move through the document, you will find that you can move through the entire document.  The entire document is one object. 
If you were using screen review, you would only be able to move as far up or down as the screen that is now visible. 
 
The command to go into screen review, if you want to experiment, is numpad insert plus numpad 7.  There may be another mode, document review, but keep moving until you get to screen review.  Don’t forget to go back to object review when you are finished in screen review.  If you don’t, some things you do may not work as expected.
 
There are times when you can see things using screen review that you can’t using object review.  There are times when the opposite is true.  One isn’t better or more useful than the other, though one may be of more use to a person, depending on how they use a computer, in other words, what programs they run and perhaps, how they work with certain programs. 
 
I hope this short tutorial is useful.
 
Gene


Re: Switching of languages between english and another language

David Goldfield
 

In Word you can mark text as being in a specific language by choosing the Language option from the Review tab. From the Language submenu tab over to another option also labeled Language.
The sequence of keystrokes to quickly do this is alt+R, U.
If you want language set for a portion of the text ensure that you have selected the text prior to issuing this command.


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019
Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.
Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rui Fontes
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2021 9:45 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Switching of languages between english and another language

Hello!


1 - NVDA, by itself, can do that in marked text.

The marked text can be in HTML, PDF, Word and maybe in a few more...


2 - Vocalizer Expressive, do that and also change the language based in the group of Unicode characters used by the language...

This method do not result for english and german because they use the same unicode group of characters. In those cases Vocalizer uses the NVDA method...


Best regards,

Rui Fontes
Tiflotecnia, Lda.



Às 08:30 de 19/12/2021, hurrikennyandopo ... escreveu:
Hi guys


I have been asked a question about the following.


I know there is a setting called Automatic language switching (when
supported) under the voice settings in nvda and another one for
Automatic dialect switching (when supported)

just under it.


I am guessing the person needs to have a synth that speaks the other
language and another they want to hear it in.


I think I read some where if the language is marked up correctly on
the web say German if you have a german synth it should start speaking
in that language and if it is then marked up en english the other
synth starts up


Does it only have to be done on the web or can it be in a PDF document
or can it say be in word?


What would the person have to do to have it change between the 2
languages in NVDA? I said i had no clue so thought I would ask some
one who already does it to swap between there language and say english.


Gene nz






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