Date   

Re: NVDA announcing shortcut keys

 

On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 01:04 PM, Gene wrote:
This should not be the default behavior.
-
Again, Gene, this is your opinion.  It is not mine.

In almost all programs, including NVDA, when people change settings they want those changes "to stick" and actually expect it unless they deliberately arrange it otherwise.  This has been a convention for decades, and across types of software.

You know how to turn this off.  If you don't like that default, then do that.  Your tastes, which are sometimes unusual, don't hold sway.  All the time you state, unequivocally, that they should.  Sorry, but, no.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


Re: NVDA announcing shortcut keys

David Goldfield
 

That's fine. My apologies as I somehow missed that message.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.
Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2022 1:05 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA announcing shortcut keys

That's correct.  I said in my message something about if you haven't shut down NVDA for that reason.  Its also a reason that I strongly believe that the default setting should be changed.  By default, NVDA saves settings when you shut it down, which would mean when you restart or shut down Windows as instances.  You can turn this behavior off and manually save settings when you want to with Control+NVDA+c.


Because of this NVDA default behavior, I have twice lost every single one of my settings.  I had reverted to factory settings to check something, then I had forgotten that the factory settings would be automatically saved if I shut NVDA down.  When I rebooted again, I had lost all my settings and I had to manually reset them.


This should not be the default behavior.


Gene

On 1/16/2022 11:22 AM, David Goldfield wrote:
Pressing NVDA-ctrl-R isn't always a guarantee that you'll be able to revert back to a previous setting as a user could have saved a configuration, exited and then later restarted NVDA. In that case relying on the keystroke to revert to the previously saved configuration won't work.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.
Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

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-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2022 12:15 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA announcing shortcut keys

Thanks this is the correct place to disable shortcut keys. I don't know what keystroke I accidently hit to mess up my settings. I will remember the insert control r for the next time these old stiff fingers hit the wrong keys.
Thanks

On 1/16/2022 10:32 AM, Gene wrote:
I haven't played with the setting to see if this is the applicable
one, but it appears to be in object presentation, report object shortcut keys.


Even if that is the applicable setting, you can see why using
control+NVDA+r is so much more convenient and efficient.


Gene

On 1/16/2022 10:27 AM, Gene wrote:
NVDA 4 is speak command keys on and off.  that isn't related to
announcing shortcuts.


Gene

On 1/16/2022 10:22 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
See Keyboard Settings in NVDA settings or try NVDA + 4, which I
believe toggles this announcement.
--

Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

*/The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group
fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes
inessential what these ideals are./*

*/       ~/*Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)








Re: NVDA announcing shortcut keys

Gene
 

That's correct.  I said in my message something about if you haven't shut down NVDA for that reason.  Its also a reason that I strongly believe that the default setting should be changed.  By default, NVDA saves settings when you shut it down, which would mean when you restart or shut down Windows as instances.  You can turn this behavior off and manually save settings when you want to with Control+NVDA+c.


Because of this NVDA default behavior, I have twice lost every single one of my settings.  I had reverted to factory settings to check something, then I had forgotten that the factory settings would be automatically saved if I shut NVDA down.  When I rebooted again, I had lost all my settings and I had to manually reset them.


This should not be the default behavior.


Gene

On 1/16/2022 11:22 AM, David Goldfield wrote:
Pressing NVDA-ctrl-R isn't always a guarantee that you'll be able to revert back to a previous setting as a user could have saved a configuration, exited and then later restarted NVDA. In that case relying on the keystroke to revert to the previously saved configuration won't work.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.
Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2022 12:15 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA announcing shortcut keys

Thanks this is the correct place to disable shortcut keys. I don't know what keystroke I accidently hit to mess up my settings. I will remember the insert control r for the next time these old stiff fingers hit the wrong keys.
Thanks

On 1/16/2022 10:32 AM, Gene wrote:
I haven't played with the setting to see if this is the applicable
one, but it appears to be in object presentation, report object shortcut keys.


Even if that is the applicable setting, you can see why using
control+NVDA+r is so much more convenient and efficient.


Gene

On 1/16/2022 10:27 AM, Gene wrote:
NVDA 4 is speak command keys on and off.  that isn't related to
announcing shortcuts.


Gene

On 1/16/2022 10:22 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
See Keyboard Settings in NVDA settings or try NVDA + 4, which I
believe toggles this announcement.
--

Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

*/The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group
fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes
inessential what these ideals are./*

*/       ~/*Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)







Re: NVDA announcing shortcut keys

 

On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 11:26 AM, Gene wrote:
If you haven't shut down NVDA and the new settings haven't been permanently saved, you can immediately undo any settings you have changed accidentally or on purpose with the command control+NVDA+r.
-
David,

Please re-read what Gene said earlier.  He made the explicit statement, "and the new settings haven't been permanently saved."  The mechanism of permanent saving, whether an application profile or default profile, isn't relevant.  What is is that the new settings have not been saved, anywhere, or by any method.

If the above noted constraint is in place, the noted command works.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


Re: NVDA announcing shortcut keys

David Goldfield
 

Pressing NVDA-ctrl-R isn't always a guarantee that you'll be able to revert back to a previous setting as a user could have saved a configuration, exited and then later restarted NVDA. In that case relying on the keystroke to revert to the previously saved configuration won't work.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.
Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2022 12:15 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA announcing shortcut keys

Thanks this is the correct place to disable shortcut keys. I don't know what keystroke I accidently hit to mess up my settings. I will remember the insert control r for the next time these old stiff fingers hit the wrong keys.
Thanks

On 1/16/2022 10:32 AM, Gene wrote:
I haven't played with the setting to see if this is the applicable
one, but it appears to be in object presentation, report object shortcut keys.


Even if that is the applicable setting, you can see why using
control+NVDA+r is so much more convenient and efficient.


Gene

On 1/16/2022 10:27 AM, Gene wrote:

NVDA 4 is speak command keys on and off.  that isn't related to
announcing shortcuts.


Gene

On 1/16/2022 10:22 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
See Keyboard Settings in NVDA settings or try NVDA + 4, which I
believe toggles this announcement.
--

Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

*/The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group
fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes
inessential what these ideals are./*

*/       ~/*Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)


Re: NVDA announcing shortcut keys

Don H
 

Thanks this is the correct place to disable shortcut keys. I don't know
what keystroke I accidently hit to mess up my settings. I will remember
the insert control r for the next time these old stiff fingers hit the
wrong keys.
Thanks

On 1/16/2022 10:32 AM, Gene wrote:
I haven't played with the setting to see if this is the applicable one,
but it appears to be in object presentation, report object shortcut keys.


Even if that is the applicable setting, you can see why using
control+NVDA+r is so much more convenient and efficient.


Gene

On 1/16/2022 10:27 AM, Gene wrote:

NVDA 4 is speak command keys on and off.  that isn't related to
announcing shortcuts.


Gene

On 1/16/2022 10:22 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
See Keyboard Settings in NVDA settings or try NVDA + 4, which I
believe toggles this announcement.
--

Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

*/The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group
fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes
inessential what these ideals are./*

*/       ~/*Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)


Re: NVDA announcing shortcut keys

Gene
 

I haven't played with the setting to see if this is the applicable one, but it appears to be in object presentation, report object shortcut keys. 


Even if that is the applicable setting, you can see why using control+NVDA+r is so much more convenient and efficient.


Gene

On 1/16/2022 10:27 AM, Gene wrote:

NVDA 4 is speak command keys on and off.  that isn't related to announcing shortcuts.


Gene

On 1/16/2022 10:22 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
See Keyboard Settings in NVDA settings or try NVDA + 4, which I believe toggles this announcement.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


Re: NVDA announcing shortcut keys

David Goldfield
 

Hi. The insert-4 shortcut toggles the speaking of command keys that you type, such as keys accompanied by the control key, but not the speaking of shortcut keys for options in an application.

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

 

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2022 11:23 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA announcing shortcut keys

 

See Keyboard Settings in NVDA settings or try NVDA + 4, which I believe toggles this announcement.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


Re: NVDA announcing shortcut keys

David Goldfield
 

Don, go to Preferences > Settings > Object Presentation and you'll find the option to disable the speaking of shortcut keys.
For reference you can also find it in section 12.1.12 of the User Guide, which you can get to from the NVDA menu under the Help option.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.
Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2022 11:19 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA announcing shortcut keys

I am running NVDA version 2021.3.1 on latest version of win 10. I had NVDA set not to announce shortcut keys. I messed up hitting some key conbination that caused NVDA to start announcing shortcut keys. Where in the NVDA settings do you disable the announcement of shortcut keys.
Thanks


Re: NVDA announcing shortcut keys

Gene
 

NVDA 4 is speak command keys on and off.  that isn't related to announcing shortcuts.


Gene

On 1/16/2022 10:22 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
See Keyboard Settings in NVDA settings or try NVDA + 4, which I believe toggles this announcement.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


Re: NVDA announcing shortcut keys

Gene
 

I'll let others answer the question as to the specific location of the setting.  I will tell you something I think is valuable to know and use.  If you haven't shut down NVDA and the new settings haven't been permanently saved, you can immediately undo any settings you have changed accidentally or on purpose with the command control+NVDA+r.  This allows you to experiment with different commands or change something and change anything back with the convenience of issuing one command.  At times, I change my punctuation level.  To change it back to the setting I usually use, I use the command I gave above.  Its faster and more convenient.


Gene

On 1/16/2022 10:18 AM, Don H wrote:
I am running NVDA version 2021.3.1 on latest version of win 10.  I had NVDA set not to announce shortcut keys.  I messed up hitting some key conbination that caused NVDA to start announcing shortcut keys.  Where in the NVDA settings do you disable the announcement of shortcut keys.
Thanks




Re: NVDA announcing shortcut keys

 

See Keyboard Settings in NVDA settings or try NVDA + 4, which I believe toggles this announcement.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


NVDA announcing shortcut keys

Don H
 

I am running NVDA version 2021.3.1 on latest version of win 10. I had NVDA set not to announce shortcut keys. I messed up hitting some key conbination that caused NVDA to start announcing shortcut keys. Where in the NVDA settings do you disable the announcement of shortcut keys.
Thanks


Re: a big thank you to the programmers

Gene
 

I'll also point out that there are other ways to efficiently move to links you go to regularly.  I discussed the way I use but there is the links list and the add-on that has been discussed here recently.  I don't recall its name but if I understand what has been said about one of its features, you can create something that will move you to a certain place on a page when you visit it and use a command to move there.


I dont know how many places on a page you can designate in this way.


Gene

On 1/16/2022 10:06 AM, Gene wrote:

You would have to clear the page or the site, whichever choices you have and want to clear, from history.  That is why I generally don't use visited links.  There are times when it is very useful.  At times, when I'm doing something on a page and I want to know where I left off, using visited links can be very useful.  But usually, pages are full of visited links because on pages I use often, I usually go to a lot of links.  I use the find command usually.  If I want to move to a ;page on a newspaper site that is named editorials, I search for edit instead of writing the entire word.  Usually the first four letters works efficiently;.  Because newspaper pages may have other text with some variation of the word edit, I use five letters.


Gene

On 1/16/2022 9:47 AM, Chris Mullins wrote:

Hi Brian

I was a Jaws user for years and I remember the  v (visited) and u (unvisited) quick key links in browse mode, which are replicated in NVDA.  My only issue is how can they be cleared, if for example a user like Betsy wanted to start again visiting all links on a page. Would the page first have to be purged from cache and re-loaded to remove the link designation?  I noticed that the visited link status of links is retained between visits to the browser, in my case Brave, so it could become mis-leading.       

 

 

Cheers

                Chris

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Brian Vogel
Sent: 15 January 2022 23:56
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] a big thank you to the programmers

 

Doesn't JAWS do this as well?  NVDA and JAWS both have had shortcuts for links (whether visited or unvisited), visited link, and unvisited link, in their keyboard shortcuts for as long as I can remember.  I also thought both announced, when you landed on a link, it's previous visitation status.

I'm just curious if any JAWS and NVDA users, and I know we've got those, can either confirm or refute my memory.  I just realized a couple of days ago that it has been almost 4 years since I last had a client where I was tutoring JAWS.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 

 


Re: a big thank you to the programmers

 

Chris,

          As Gene has already mentioned, the status of a link as visited or unvisited is determined by the browser itself and based upon your browsing history.  The way to change the status is to edit your browsing history to remove any links that are currently "in the list" as this is what makes the browser denote them as visited.  There are many ways to do this, the most arduous being going into browsing history and removing them by hand, and the most thorough going into the "Clear History" feature of your browser and wiping everything out for some set period of time.  When I do this the "set period" is almost always "all time," so everything is wiped and all links become unvisited again.

          It is generally a good idea NOT to become overly dependent on the status of a given link, as there will be times when you either need to use another browser and its status in that other browser does not match what it is in your usual one, or you will need (or want) to clear browser history and this will reset the status of all links to unvisited.  I'm not saying that using link status is a bad thing, but you need to realize when it can change and, if you've taken the steps to make that happen, you need to be aware that your visited links are no longer visited links.

           It's very difficult to selectively edit, at the individual link level, browsing history because the same link has often been visited literally hundreds of times over a period of months, and you're unlikely to have the time or patience to go through the entirety of your browsing history searching only for that link and strategically removing every instance of it.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


Re: a big thank you to the programmers

Gene
 

You would have to clear the page or the site, whichever choices you have and want to clear, from history.  That is why I generally don't use visited links.  There are times when it is very useful.  At times, when I'm doing something on a page and I want to know where I left off, using visited links can be very useful.  But usually, pages are full of visited links because on pages I use often, I usually go to a lot of links.  I use the find command usually.  If I want to move to a ;page on a newspaper site that is named editorials, I search for edit instead of writing the entire word.  Usually the first four letters works efficiently;.  Because newspaper pages may have other text with some variation of the word edit, I use five letters.


Gene

On 1/16/2022 9:47 AM, Chris Mullins wrote:

Hi Brian

I was a Jaws user for years and I remember the  v (visited) and u (unvisited) quick key links in browse mode, which are replicated in NVDA.  My only issue is how can they be cleared, if for example a user like Betsy wanted to start again visiting all links on a page. Would the page first have to be purged from cache and re-loaded to remove the link designation?  I noticed that the visited link status of links is retained between visits to the browser, in my case Brave, so it could become mis-leading.       

 

 

Cheers

                Chris

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Brian Vogel
Sent: 15 January 2022 23:56
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] a big thank you to the programmers

 

Doesn't JAWS do this as well?  NVDA and JAWS both have had shortcuts for links (whether visited or unvisited), visited link, and unvisited link, in their keyboard shortcuts for as long as I can remember.  I also thought both announced, when you landed on a link, it's previous visitation status.

I'm just curious if any JAWS and NVDA users, and I know we've got those, can either confirm or refute my memory.  I just realized a couple of days ago that it has been almost 4 years since I last had a client where I was tutoring JAWS.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 

 


Re: Sleep mode question

 

On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 06:31 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Actually, sleep mode is application specific.
-
Joseph, I hate to say it, but that would be incorrect in that it's incomplete.  Application-specific means for a running application, not individual instances of a running application.  It really is process specific, that is, an individual instance of a running application.

The reason I used "window specific" is that individual instances of running applications under Windows pretty much always equate to a window per instance.  Or at least that's the most straightforward way I can think of to put across the idea for most users.

But if you can have 10 MS-Word windows open, and have sleep on in only one of them - and you can - then describing something as application specific is overly broad and carries the implication that it applies at the application level - all instances of an application - like an application profile does.  But sleep mode does not.  It's way more specific than that.

I was somewhat surprised by that given the way it's been described, so I think some better way of describing the scope than "application specific" is really needed.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


Re: a big thank you to the programmers

Chris Mullins
 

Hi Brian

I was a Jaws user for years and I remember the  v (visited) and u (unvisited) quick key links in browse mode, which are replicated in NVDA.  My only issue is how can they be cleared, if for example a user like Betsy wanted to start again visiting all links on a page. Would the page first have to be purged from cache and re-loaded to remove the link designation?  I noticed that the visited link status of links is retained between visits to the browser, in my case Brave, so it could become mis-leading.       

 

 

Cheers

                Chris

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Brian Vogel
Sent: 15 January 2022 23:56
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] a big thank you to the programmers

 

Doesn't JAWS do this as well?  NVDA and JAWS both have had shortcuts for links (whether visited or unvisited), visited link, and unvisited link, in their keyboard shortcuts for as long as I can remember.  I also thought both announced, when you landed on a link, it's previous visitation status.

I'm just curious if any JAWS and NVDA users, and I know we've got those, can either confirm or refute my memory.  I just realized a couple of days ago that it has been almost 4 years since I last had a client where I was tutoring JAWS.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 

 


Re: Spellcheck in Excel and PowerPoint

Rui Fontes
 

What is your difficulty?


Rui Fontes


Às 14:41 de 16/01/2022, David Kingsbury escreveu:

Hi all,

Windows 10, Office 365

Spellcheck works poorly with screen readers in these two programs, but I know that JAWS has a workaround to deal with it. Does NVDA have a workaround for spell check in either of these applications? It seems completely inaccessible.

Thanks,

David

 

 


Spellcheck in Excel and PowerPoint

David Kingsbury
 

Hi all,

Windows 10, Office 365

Spellcheck works poorly with screen readers in these two programs, but I know that JAWS has a workaround to deal with it. Does NVDA have a workaround for spell check in either of these applications? It seems completely inaccessible.

Thanks,

David

 

 

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