Date   

Re: NVDA add-on CloudVision

harshad solanki
 

hey guys, could anybody provide the download link for cloud vision?

On 15/01/2022, alexey <aleks-samos@...> wrote:
https://visionbot.ru/img/ari.jpg
Try opening this link in the Firefox browser and recognizing the graphics
there.
If it works, then the problem is in the navigator. I just really don't know
how to put the navigator focus on the image.






Re: Apology to list members

John Altmeyer
 

Classy post.

On 01/16/2022 7:17 PM, Don H wrote:
I want to apologize to the list for breaking the list rules.  My continuing recovery from Covid has messed up my judgement.




Re: NVDA announcing shortcut keys

Gene
 

Yesterday, I began a new issue on Github on this topic.  As a result of discussion, I proposed two other solutions to the problem than my initial one. 


You can see the discussion and comment here:

https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/13241


Gene

On 1/16/2022 4:12 PM, Gene wrote:

Yes, what you say is correct about programs in general but a screen-reader is somewhat different than typical programs.  In a screen-reader, people often want to change settings temporarily and not have them accidentally  saved permanently.  You may want to change the speech rate, perhaps you are reading something you want to concentrate on more and slow the screen-reader, perhaps you want to change punctuation temporarily, or change what is or isn't spoken on a certain web page.  Perhaps you want to change the voice.  I imagine people would tend to change one setting usually but I also suspect there are times when people might want to change two or three, but you don't want any of these changes to be permanent.  If your computer spontaneously reboots, the changed settings will be permanently saved.  While this doesn't happen often, it does happen.  Because you may have set them a long time ago, you may not recall the numerical values of the settings and you may find it annoying to reset them.  You may be doing something after making one or more changes and decide to switch screen-readers.  Without thinking about reverting before shutdown, you close NVDA.  The old settings have been lost and the new ones saved. 


And in the case of those learning NVDA I believe it gives students more confidence in

experimenting with NVDA settings if they know they won't accidentally be saved.  They can change as many settings as they want and none of them will be permanently saved, unless intentionally.


I believe that programs like Openbook and Kurzweil are in this category of program as well. 


Gene

On 1/16/2022 3:30 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 02:51 PM, Gene wrote:
People may differ with me all they like, but why is the current default better than my proposal?
-
Gene,

I suggest you look at how the Settings under Windows 10 & 11, Microsoft Office, most web browsers, and the list goes on and on these days work.  The era of having to hit even so much as a Save key to finalize your choices has, quite often, disappeared.  Even a Cancel button has become rarer.  The settings take effect, immediately, and stay as you set them until or unless you set them back.  It has become the most common convention.

That matters.  People come to expect this sort of behavior ecosystem wide as it has come to predominate.

It's not even a matter of personal preference, really, so much as a matter of establishing a consistent convention and sticking with it.  There are programs, and they are relatively few and NVDA is one of them, that allow you to actually control when/if settings changes are saved.  It gives you the control if you want to set an exception to what has become common convention.

But in all cases, whether I necessarily like what the common convention is, personally, I recognize the value in following it.  Knowing what to expect, in most cases, has a great value even if I so happen to hate whatever that thing is.  At least I know and I know that if it's possible for me to change it then it is up to me to make that change.  It makes it a conscious deviation from the common convention.

NVDA is adhering to modern conventions, and should continue to do so.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


Re: NVDA 2021.3.1 cursor doesn't move in Google product edit fields

Sidaqvir Singh Lotay
 

I also noticed this bug.


Re: Apology to list members

Sharad Koirala
 

Hi,

I wish for your speedy recovery.
the best thing to do apart from the regular medical support during
COVID and post-COVID is to keep your confidence and think positively.

hopefully all having covid and post-covid symptoms will recover completely.

sincerely,

On 1/17/22, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
Yeah, one of my cousins that works on private boats as a contracter in
europe has omicron.
She and just about everyone has now lost their job because they got covid.
They have to work till they get replacements.
But with our isolation centres the way they are right now with space
issues and the fact if you are sick and all the restrictions she is
stuck out there, with no cash, and because of no job no visa either.
Technically the company who hired the people is supposed to get them
home but who knows if they actually will honor this.
She has her own issues with people to, but was in a bad patch last
year having been robbed while away and losing most everything.
No work, means no cash though and no cash means no anything.
Family are trying to send cash but money laundering and such well its a
problem.
Touch wood I have not got sick though being an alergy sufferer there
is always the case I may have covid daily because I can sneeze any
time without medication and even with.
So yeah, its going about on a continuous level.
So all we can do is get the best protection we can and hold on to our
hats for dear life.


On 17/01/2022, Rosemarie Chavarria <knitqueen2007@...> wrote:
Hi,



I also hope and pray you have a speedy recovery. My brother-in-law has it
now.



Rosemarie





Sent from Mail for Windows



From: Armando Vias
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2022 4:55 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Apology to list members



I hope that you have a speedy recovery as well. I also have it, but
hopefully it will get better sometime this week.



Armando L. Vias

Main Telephone: (830) 542-2220

Email: armando@...

Website: https://armandovias.com



On Jan 16, 2022, at 7:26 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

You have my sincerest wishes for a speedy and full recovery.  My
brother
had it early on, and he said, "You really don't want to get Covid!"
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting
for
common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these
ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)







--
Dr. Sharad Koirala
Lecturer
Department of Community Medicine
Gandaki Medical College, Pokhara, Nepal


Re: Organizations/Employers that use NVDA in the USA. Who are they?

David Goldfield
 

When I was employed as a computer instructor at a local blindness agency in Philadelphia I installed NVDA onto the computers in the classroom and taught it to students when doing so was appropriate. I haven’t been working there since March of 2016 and so I don’t know if the software is still being taught in that agency.

 

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

 

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Devin Prater
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2022 10:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Organizations/Employers that use NVDA in the USA. Who are they?

 

The Gentry Technical facility in Alabama teaches NVDA to its students, unless there's some program they have to use JAWS for.

Devin Prater

 

 

 

 

On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 7:55 PM Kenny Peyattt jr. <p.wildcat1234@...> wrote:

Hi I was wondering what places of employment use NVDA in the US?


Kind regards,

Kenny Peyatt jr.


Re: Organizations/Employers that use NVDA in the USA. Who are they?

Devin Prater
 

The Gentry Technical facility in Alabama teaches NVDA to its students, unless there's some program they have to use JAWS for.
Devin Prater




On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 7:55 PM Kenny Peyattt jr. <p.wildcat1234@...> wrote:

Hi I was wondering what places of employment use NVDA in the US?


Kind regards,

Kenny Peyatt jr.


Re: Organizations/Employers that use NVDA in the USA. Who are they?

Quentin Christensen
 

I won't name names for privacy reasons, although I can say that we have been getting ever increasing inquiries from organisations about using NVDA in their workplaces.

Given that the program is free, including in corporate environments, there really is no barrier to being able to use it, so that's helpful for a lot of people and companies.  We have a page at: https://www.nvaccess.org/corporate-government/ which answers a lot of the kinds of questions we get asked by organisations.

A few years ago, we were sometimes asked about whether open source software was safe.  As more IT managers now understand how open source works, we don't encounter that nearly so often but there is a section on that page dedicated to just that query - including links to a number of government and large corporate policies mandating the use of open source software first.

If anyone does work for an organisation with questions about NVDA, or would like some backup approaching organisations, do feel free to write to me offlist at info@....  (Or if you have general questions, feel free to ask here as if you have a question, chances are someone else does too).

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 12:55 PM Kenny Peyattt jr. <p.wildcat1234@...> wrote:

Hi I was wondering what places of employment use NVDA in the US?


Kind regards,

Kenny Peyatt jr.



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: Organizations/Employers that use NVDA in the USA. Who are they?

Armando L. Vias
 

Hello. I believe that some schools for the blind use NVDA. For example, at my school for the blind in my state, some computers have NVDA installed.

Armando L. Vias
Main Telephone: (830) 542-2220
Email: armando@...
Website: https://armandovias.com

On Jan 16, 2022, at 8:55 PM, Kenny Peyattt jr. <p.wildcat1234@...> wrote:



Hi I was wondering what places of employment use NVDA in the US?


Kind regards,

Kenny Peyatt jr.


Re: Apology to list members

 

Yeah, one of my cousins that works on private boats as a contracter in
europe has omicron.
She and just about everyone has now lost their job because they got covid.
They have to work till they get replacements.
But with our isolation centres the way they are right now with space
issues and the fact if you are sick and all the restrictions she is
stuck out there, with no cash, and because of no job no visa either.
Technically the company who hired the people is supposed to get them
home but who knows if they actually will honor this.
She has her own issues with people to, but was in a bad patch last
year having been robbed while away and losing most everything.
No work, means no cash though and no cash means no anything.
Family are trying to send cash but money laundering and such well its a problem.
Touch wood I have not got sick though being an alergy sufferer there
is always the case I may have covid daily because I can sneeze any
time without medication and even with.
So yeah, its going about on a continuous level.
So all we can do is get the best protection we can and hold on to our
hats for dear life.

On 17/01/2022, Rosemarie Chavarria <knitqueen2007@...> wrote:
Hi,



I also hope and pray you have a speedy recovery. My brother-in-law has it
now.



Rosemarie





Sent from Mail for Windows



From: Armando Vias
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2022 4:55 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Apology to list members



I hope that you have a speedy recovery as well. I also have it, but
hopefully it will get better sometime this week.



Armando L. Vias

Main Telephone: (830) 542-2220

Email: armando@...

Website: https://armandovias.com



On Jan 16, 2022, at 7:26 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

You have my sincerest wishes for a speedy and full recovery.  My brother
had it early on, and he said, "You really don't want to get Covid!"
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for
common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these
ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)




Re: a big thank you to the programmers

Kenny Peyattt jr.
 

I use NVDA as a backup, and I still use JAWS as my primary screenreader.


Organizations/Employers that use NVDA in the USA. Who are they?

Kenny Peyattt jr.
 

Hi I was wondering what places of employment use NVDA in the US?


Kind regards,

Kenny Peyatt jr.


Re: a big thank you to the programmers

Quentin Christensen
 

Thanks Betsy!  Even though, as others have said, it might not be a new feature, it's still great to know that it's a useful feature for you.  Also a reminder to any web devs out there (although most reading this group would already be quite conscientious about this) that for all the latest fancy bells and whistles out there, sometimes it's the simple, back to basics HTML (I just checked, I believe visited links were a thing from HTML 3.2 in 1997 - 25 years ago: https://www.w3.org/TR/2018/SPSD-html32-20180315/ )

To answer the question someone asked in the thread - It's up to the page or CSS, or failing that, your browser settings as to exactly what colour visited links appear.  The default is generally that unvisited links appear in blue, and visited links appear in purple.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 10:46 AM Betsy Grenevitch <blindangel61@...> wrote:
I want to thank whoever decided to let NVDA tell you when you just
visited a link. I was on our state legislative site having to copy and
paste in a file the information about each senator. With my dementia I
cannot remember which link I was on last and without having to go back
to the list I was making it was great to have NVDA just say "visited
link" on the ones I had already opened. I knew it did it but really
noticed it this time as the dementia is getting a lot worse.


I know I have said this out here before, but I want to thank those again
who have helped me through the years write down step-by-step directions
for different tasks I need to use. I used some of those directions again
today.


I am already giving a very small amount each month but hope in about
three years to add more to that amount each month. I do not know where I
would be without NVDA.


Thanks again.


--
Betsy Grenevitch 678-862-3876







--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: Apology to list members

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi,

 

I also hope and pray you have a speedy recovery. My brother-in-law has it now.

 

Rosemarie

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Armando Vias
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2022 4:55 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Apology to list members

 

I hope that you have a speedy recovery as well. I also have it, but hopefully it will get better sometime this week.

Armando L. Vias

Main Telephone: (830) 542-2220

Email: armando@...

Website: https://armandovias.com



On Jan 16, 2022, at 7:26 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

You have my sincerest wishes for a speedy and full recovery.  My brother had it early on, and he said, "You really don't want to get Covid!"
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 

 


Re: Spellcheck in Excel and PowerPoint

Quentin Christensen
 

In short, the spell check feature in Excel 365 is like the old-style Word 2010 and older dialog.  Given that, I would assume it's like that in every version of Excel.  The spell check in PowerPoint is like the Word 2013 and newer task pane style spell check.

For the spell check feature in Excel:
1. Press F7.  It opens what will be familiar to users of Office 2010 and earlier as the spell check dialog.  For some reason the focus starts on the dictionary language.
2. Press alt+d to jump to "Not in dictionary".  This will show the first item found.
3. For reasons, it will read blank.  What is actually happening is the text is selected and it won't read properly.  Press an arrow key. We are aware of this and have an open issue: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/11504
4. Press TAB once or alt+n to jump to the suggestions.
5. Use the arrow keys to move around the suggestions.

You can press either:
a) alt+i to ignore once
b) alt+g to ignore all instances of this error
c) alt+d to add the word to the dictionary
d) alt+c to change this instance to the currently selected suggestion
e) alt+l to change all instances of this error to the currently selected suggestion

So, aside from the initial quirk of where focus lands (would need a fix from Microsoft), and the oddity of NVDA not reading the misspelt word while it is selected, which we're aware of, the dialog isn't too hard to navigate.


For PowerPoint:
1) Press F7, the task pane opens.  Again for reasons known only to Microsoft, the focus is on the language selection.
2) Press tab once.  This moves the focus to the "Ignore once" button, which is the first button on the task pane.
3) Press the "Move to previous object" keystroke.  NVDA+numpad 4 (desktop) or NVDA+shift+left arrow (laptop).  This reads the error.
4) You can press enter to activate this button, or press TAB three times to move past Ignore all and add and to the first suggestion.
5) Use the arrows to move through the suggestions.

The options from here are identical to listed for Excel, except adding the word to the dictionary is alt+a rather than alt+d.  You can press either:
a) alt+i to ignore once
b) alt+g to ignore all instances of this error
c) alt+a to add the word to the dictionary
d) alt+c to change this instance to the currently selected suggestion
e) alt+l to change all instances of this error to the currently selected suggestion

The spell check in Word 365 itself works similarly, but a little more sophisticated.  It also presents grammatical errors which work slightly differently, and reads the word and context better.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 1:41 AM David Kingsbury <davidkingsbury77@...> wrote:

Hi all,

Windows 10, Office 365

Spellcheck works poorly with screen readers in these two programs, but I know that JAWS has a workaround to deal with it. Does NVDA have a workaround for spell check in either of these applications? It seems completely inaccessible.

Thanks,

David

 

 



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: Apology to list members

Armando L. Vias
 

I hope that you have a speedy recovery as well. I also have it, but hopefully it will get better sometime this week.

Armando L. Vias
Main Telephone: (830) 542-2220
Email: armando@...
Website: https://armandovias.com

On Jan 16, 2022, at 7:26 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

You have my sincerest wishes for a speedy and full recovery.  My brother had it early on, and he said, "You really don't want to get Covid!"
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


Re: Apology to list members

 

You have my sincerest wishes for a speedy and full recovery.  My brother had it early on, and he said, "You really don't want to get Covid!"
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


Apology to list members

Don H
 

I want to apologize to the list for breaking the list rules. My continuing recovery from Covid has messed up my judgement.


Re: NVDA announcing shortcut keys

 

On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 06:44 PM, Don H wrote:
Last time I told Brian v not to do something he read me the riot act to
Never Never tell him what to do.
-
You really don't seem to understand that questioning moderation decisions in public is just not done.

For any other member who believes that the above is appropriate, I suggest you read Nimer Jaber's Administrative Notice entitled, List Updates: Please Read  (Sent April 11, 2020).  It explicitly states the following:

  • This list is not a democracy.
    • A list member took liberties with questioning a moderator on a topic in public, and questioning why topics are locked. Let me be quite clear: It is not acceptable to question a moderator on list in respect of a thread being locked, or any other reason [related to group administration]. If a thread is locked, this is not out of a desire to infringe on your rights... As participants on this list, you are bound by the Groups.io terms of service. Furthermore, you are bound by any rules that I, the list owner, along with Brian, the list moderator, and NVAccess decide to impose. Even if the rule is something you disagree with. If you disagree with it, or you cannot abide by it, please unsubscribe. This isn't to say that policies we enact will be unreasonable, however it is your choice whether you are able to follow the rules imposed by an entity when you use a service or product that entity provides.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


Re: NVDA announcing shortcut keys

Gtt North Bay
 

Sorry but I think you have the wrong Brian B.

Thanks,
Brian B.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: January 16, 2022 6:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA announcing shortcut keys

Last time I told Brian v not to do something he read me the riot act to Never Never tell him what to do.

On 1/16/2022 5:03 PM, Gtt North Bay wrote:
Brian and Gene, can we kill this topic or take it off list.

To much back and forth.

Thanks,

Brian B.

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Gene
*Sent:* January 16, 2022 5:15 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] NVDA announcing shortcut keys

I didn't say what I said to say that one screen-reader is better. I'm
saying that Window-eyes, in this respect, is superior because settings
aren't automatically saved. But beyond that, I'm not making any
general statements in my message.

Gene

On 1/16/2022 3:48 PM, Arlene wrote:

Hi there: I can’t argue here. I used Jaws since I got a computer. I
did try a demo of window eyes. I found it too bulkie. I ran home to
JFW because I didn’t know window eyes. In my neck of the woods in
Canada British Columbia. There wasn’t a vender I knew of that
supported it. They were big on JFW. Later I did find a vender that
did support Window eyes. I don’t know if they exist. They were based
out of Victoria. Now, for me to get JFW, I have to go to another
Vender for JFW. Our local venders do not support it. There’s one
in Langley and another in Vancouver. They support system Access.
This is why I use NVDA. I can get it online. Not have to go to a
vender to get it! I have both it and Jaws on my system. Some things
I’ll use NVDA. Some I’ll use Jaws. Don’t worry I wont use them at
the same time. Lol

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows

*From: *Gene <mailto:gsasner@...>
*Sent: *January 16, 2022 11:51 AM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] NVDA announcing shortcut keys

I'll point out, though arguing from authority doesn't prove a thing
is right, that still, one of the most respected instructors in the
field expressed the opinion that Window-eyes was better than JAWS in
this respect because users were more free to experiment.

People may differ with me all they like, but why is the current
default better than my proposal?

Gene

On 1/16/2022 1:42 PM, Gene wrote:

I can state an opinion about what should be the case without
always qualifying it by saying something like others may
disagree, etc. This sort of thing is done constantly. See
editorial pages and opinion columns for innumerable examples.
When I write in such a way, I assume that it is generally
understood that I am expressing an opinion.

This is not a question of taste, usual or not. It isn't a
question of I like chocolate ice cream. It is a question of
which better serves users.

Aside from that, Openbook does not automatically save settings.
Window-eyes didn't. I don't think Kurzweil does. These
designers may have had good reasons for what they did.

In the case of Window-eyes, the reason was so that users could
experiment with settings, then not accidentally have them be
saved. I suspect that also, in the cases of all three of these
programs, this was done so users could change settings, then
change them back if the changes were intended to be temporary
such as temporarily changing a contrast setting. It was
evidently intended that these settings would not be accidentally
saved on exit.

Gene

On 1/16/2022 12:53 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 01:04 PM, Gene wrote:

This should not be the default behavior.

-
Again, Gene, this is your opinion. It is not mine.

In almost all programs, including NVDA, when people change
settings they want those changes "to stick" and actually
expect it unless they deliberately arrange it otherwise.
This has been a convention for decades, and across types of
software.

You know how to turn this off. If you don't like that
default, then do that. Your tastes, which are sometimes
unusual, don't hold sway. All the time you state,
unequivocally, that they should. Sorry, but, no.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

/*The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit
group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it
becomes inessential what these ideals are.*/

/* ~ */Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

.

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