Moderator's Note:  The posting of log files on the group is discouraged for two reasons:
1. They can contain private data.
2.  There are few members who are able to interpret them.
Because this issue is so strange, I'm granting a one-time exception. General practice is to post the issue and offer to send the log privately to whoever may request it.  Please do this going forward.
--------------------------------------------------
Windows 7 SP1
During installation NVDA works fine. I can even select the option to Continue Running without doing an installation and it will work perfectly.
However once the installation is complete I can hear the NDVA startup sound which is immediately followed by the exit sound.
I have tried installing the latest version and even uninstalled, rebooted and installed the previous with the same results.
NVDA fails to launch with the same characteristics after a reboot.
Never does it remain in the taskbar.
While running in the Continue mode I can fully navigate the menus and have tried resetting/factory defaults but no change.
Even tried different voice profiles.
I have AVG Business installed and added the NDVA installed path as an exemption.
When I took a look at the logs I see this in the last line. OSError: [WinError 193] %1 is not a valid Win32 application.
*Full Log:
INFO - __main__ (21:46:36.635) - MainThread (5972):
Starting NVDA version 2021.3.1
INFO - core.main (21:46:36.686) - MainThread (5972):
Config dir: C:\Users\Jeffery\AppData\Roaming\nvda
INFO - config.ConfigManager._loadConfig (21:46:36.686) - MainThread (5972):
Loading config: C:\Users\Jeffery\AppData\Roaming\nvda\nvda.ini
INFO - core.main (21:46:36.729) - MainThread (5972):
Windows version: Windows 7 (6.1.7601) service pack Service Pack 1 workstation
INFO - core.main (21:46:36.729) - MainThread (5972):
Using Python version 3.7.9 (tags/v3.7.9:13c94747c7, Aug 17 2020, 18:01:55) [MSC v.1900 32 bit (Intel)]
INFO - core.main (21:46:36.729) - MainThread (5972):
Using comtypes version 1.1.8
INFO - core.main (21:46:36.729) - MainThread (5972):
Using configobj version 5.1.0 with validate version 1.0.1
CRITICAL - __main__ (21:46:36.932) - MainThread (5972):
core failure
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "nvda.pyw", line 362, in
  File "core.pyc", line 442, in main
  File "NVDAHelper.pyc", line 569, in initialize
  File "NVDAHelper.pyc", line 482, in __init__
  File "winKernel.pyc", line 351, in CreateProcessAsUser
OSError: [WinError 193] %1 is not a valid Win32 application.
Any Suggestions?
Thanks

Running latest Win 10 and nvda. Looked through the user manual but
can't find a way to have NVDA from saying blank on blank lines. Can
someone please direct me to where the setting is?
Thanks

The SAPI synthesizer isn't an add-on.  it is intended for use with any program that supports SAPI5.

Gene

However the code factory guys are blaming nvda, so who is at fault here, I can’t test as I have the nvda/sapi combo I got for $50 last year, not the sapi addon only. Actually, can I test this using the nvda only addon?

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Mullins
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2022 9:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA announcing Capital letters

 

Hi

From the input so far on this issue, it sounds like the addon may interrogate the NVDA Voice property for “Say cap” and if it is not checked, it defaults to inserting the word “Capital” before processing an individual capital letter, otherwise NVDA takes responsib ility for indicating the capital letter.  This may also apply to Pitch Change and Bleep  as well but I have not seen any evidence that this is the case.

 

Cheers

                Chris

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Steve Nutt
Sent: 26 January 2022 14:17
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA announcing Capital letters

 

Hi,

 

It happens equally on the SAPI version of Vocalizer, I can tell you that.

 

And it is not, as Brian suggests, an isolated problem, it is easy to reproduce.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

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-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene

Sent: 25 January 2022 22:00

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA announcing Capital letters

 

I don't know how much you might want to do to pursue the problem further.  One option, which will cost money, is to get the SAPI Vocalizer voices,  You may want to try the program to see if you have the same problem.

 

You can find it on this page:

 

https://www.atguys.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=60_20

 

There are the methods to try to correct the problem Brian discussed and then there is this possible solution that will cost you money.  But I'm making you aware of the option, if you aren't.  And you may want to test for the problem using the SAPI demo.

 

 

Gene

 

On 1/25/2022 3:49 PM, Don H wrote:

> Yes there are setting under the code factory entery under settings.

> Same screen where you download more voices.  Nothing in the settings

> here fixes the issue of saying capital.

> 

> On 1/25/2022 3:44 PM, Gene wrote:

>> There is a way to open settings for the add-on itself but I don't

>> know how you do it.  I have a guess which I will present.  To explain

>> why this is my guess would require explanation which isn't relevant

>> to the discussion.  It has to do with what the expired demo does when

>> you try to run it.  When you are using a vocalizer voice, try opening

>> the synthesizer dialog, control NVDA s, moving to the Vocalizer

>> choice, and pressing enter.  Does the settings dialog open?

>> 

>> 

>> I have an expired demo.  The only setting I can see that might

>> possibly apply is one for raising the pitch for capital.  As I

>> recall, it is a check box.  There is no say cap or say capital

>> setting.  Maybe if you turn on the raise pitch option, capital won't be spoken.

>> 

>> 

>> Gene

>> 

>> On 1/25/2022 3:05 PM, Chris Mullins wrote:

>> 

>>> Hi Don

>>> 

>>> If  in the Voice Settings dialog (NVDA+Ctrl+v),you set Uppercase

>>> pitch change to 0, Say Cap unchecked and Beep before Capitals

>>> unchecked you say NVDA says "Capital" before capital letters but if

>>> you check the "say Cap" checkbox, it only says "Cap", is that correct?

>>> 

>>> Does the Code Factory addon have any adjustable properties available

>>> via the Preferences sub-menu (NVDA+n p) or in the catagories list of

>>> the Settings dialog (NVDA+n p s)?  I'm asking these questions

>>> because I think it's the Code Factory addon that is responsible for

>>> it saying "Capital" and I wondered if there were any adjustable

>>> properties governing this behaviour.

>>> 

>>> Cheers

>>> 

>>>                 Chris

>>> 

>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for

>>> Windows

>>> 

>>> *From: *Don H <mailto:lmddh50@...>

>>> *Sent: *25 January 2022 14:21

>>> *To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io

>>> *Subject: *Re: [nvda] NVDA announcing Capital letters

>>> 

>>> I think I started this thread and here is what I have figured out.

>>> When

>>> 

>>> using the code Factory vocalizer addon for NVDA if you have the

>>> voice

>>> 

>>> settings to not say cap and also have the beep for caps off on my

>>> system

>>> 

>>> NVDA says the word capital before each uppercase letter.  To make

>>> this

>>> 

>>> better in my opinion I now have my voice settings set with a pitch

>>> 

>>> change on caps on zero and I have say cap on capitaleters turned on. 

>>> So

>>> 

>>> now on capital letters NVDA says cap before each uppercase letter

>>> and I

>>> 

>>> hear no pitch change on capitals.  This makes the verbage on capital

>>> 

>>> letters a little better.

>>> 

>>> I did also make it stop saying capital by adding each uppercase

>>> letter

>>> 

>>> to the default dictionary replacing each with a lowercase letter and

>>> 

>>> this resulted in only hearing a pitch change on uppercase letters

>>> but

>>> 

>>> for some reason this pitch only for uppercase letters was

>>> inconsistent

>>> 

>>> with some uppercase letters being typed not having a raised pitch. 

>>> I

>>> 

>>> removed all the enteries I made to the default dictionary.

>>> 

>>> On 1/25/2022 3:59 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:

>>> 

>>> > Interesting, I’ll test it again, but when I’ve tried it before, I

>>> didn’t

>>> 

>>> > get beeps when I set capitals to beep.

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > All the best

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > Steve

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > --

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > To subscribe to our News and Special Offers list, go to

>>> 

>>> > https://www.comproom.co.uk/subscribe

>>> <https://www.comproom.co.uk/subscribe>

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > Computer Room Services

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > 77 Exeter Close

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > Stevenage

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > Hertfordshire

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > SG1 4PW

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > T: +44(0)1438-742286

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > M: +44(0)7956-334938

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > F: +44(0)1438-759589

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > E: steve@... <mailto:steve@...>

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > W: https://www.comproom.co.uk <https://www.comproom.co.uk>

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > *From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of

>>> > *Gene

>>> 

>>> > *Sent:* 21 January 2022 17:08

>>> 

>>> > *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io

>>> 

>>> > *Subject:* Re: [nvda] NVDA announcing Capital letters

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > I just tested this.  It comes through the sound card.

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > Gene

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > On 1/21/2022 10:53 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     I think this is because the beep option unhelpfully comes

>>> >through

>>> 

>>> >     the PC speaker, instead of your soundcard.

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     Some PCs don’t have a PC speaker any more, so the beep sound

>>> won’t

>>> 

>>> >     work for them.

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     I think this should be changed in NVDA.

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     All the best

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     Steve

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     --

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     To subscribe to our News and Special Offers list, go to

>>> 

>>> > https://www.comproom.co.uk/subscribe

>>> 

>>> > <https://www.comproom.co.uk/subscribe>

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     Computer Room Services

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     77 Exeter Close

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     Stevenage

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     Hertfordshire

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     SG1 4PW

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     T: +44(0)1438-742286

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     M: +44(0)7956-334938

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     F: +44(0)1438-759589

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     E: steve@... <mailto:steve@...>

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     W: https://www.comproom.co.uk <https://www.comproom.co.uk>

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     *From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>>> 

>>> > <nvda@nvda.groups.io> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of

>>> 

>>> >     *Marilyn and Don Bilderback

>>> 

>>> >     *Sent:* 20 January 2022 06:18

>>> 

>>> >     *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>>> 

>>> >     *Subject:* [nvda] NVDA announcing Capital letters

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     Hello,

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     I have the beep option checked but I get no sound when I type.

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >       I try to use the tone option, but   can’t seem to choose the

>>> 

>>> >        right numbers so I can use that method. I don’t hear   any

>>> change

>>> 

>>> >     in tone when caps are typed.

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     I do not like the word caps spoken as I can’t hear what I am

>>> 

>>> >     typing.    What am I missing?

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     Marilynn

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>> 

> 

> 

>

> 

> 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

John,

 

It does look as though you have a profile for the Spreadsheet.

Press NVDA +control +p to see what profiles you have in your NVDA. There should be a “Normal” profile by default.

 

When you are on the  desktop, the Normal profile is active. Your column reading parameters would then be saved in the Normal profile.

 

If, as I suspect, you have the “Spreadsheet” profile, this will become active as soon as you open Excel.

 

When you set the parameters while outside Excel, the column reading parameters that you set up were saved in the Normal profile.

 

What you have done now that you have opened Excel, is to set the column reading settings in the Spreadsheet profile and that explains why they are now working whenever you open excel.

 

There is a detailed explanation of the profiles in the NVDA user manual. I recommend you read that and try setting up manual profiles and triggered ones just to see how they work.

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Isige
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2022 5:46 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Reading row or column headers in Excel, how does it work?

 

Thanks, that did it! I had that set but I wonder if the problem was that I set it in the general configuration, i.e. in NVDA outside of Excel? I did apply and then save it, but I wonder if it didn't get carried over into the Excel profile? Well I set it up, saved the workbook, and hit ctrl-NVDA-c to save the current configuration while in Excel. Opening the workbook again works, so yay!

 

On 1/26/2022 3:35 AM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote:

John,

 

Your table looks fine.

 

Have you set these three parameters in Document configuration in the excel profile?:

1. Open an Excel worksheet to open the Excel profile;
2. Press NVDA+Control+d for Document settings;
3. Check all of these items:

   Tables

    row/column headings

   Cell co-ordinates;

1. Press control+shift +r to set row headings.

If those are all set, you should hear the row headings as described.

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Isige
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2022 2:44 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Reading row or column headers in Excel, how does it work?

 

Thanks, everybody! I have a table like so:

 

A1: title

a2: artist

a3: album

 

If I go to A1 and hit NVDA-shift-c to set column headers, and then arrow down to A2, all is well, I hear Jalla Jalla, which is a track title, followed by A2. However, when I arrow right to B2, I hear Frigg B2. It is my understanding now, and thanks for the great explanation, that I *should* hear Frigg B2 artist.

 

I generated my table by making a CSV file from MP3Tag and then importing that file into Excel, and then saving the resulting worksheet, or workbook, or whatever it is. Could that be the problem? To check I hit ctrl-n to make a new thingy and did:

 

A1: stuff

B1: more stuff

C1: still more stuff

 

A2: 3

B2: 4

C2: 5

 

Arrowing down and then right just gave me 4 B2, rather than 4 B2 more stuff, which is what I'd expect from the explanation.

 

On 1/25/2022 5:24 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 05:35 PM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote:

In a sample table like this:

A1= Invoice; b1=Name; c1= Date; d1= Cost ; ….

A2= 4000004325; B2=Fred Smith; C2= 02/02/2022; d2= $25.15; …   ….

 

-
One of the things that many have trouble wrapping their heads around, and I include myself, is that column headings reside in a ROW, and row headings reside in a COLUMN.  And, of course, depending on the format of the chart in question it may have only column headings (in one row) or row headings (in one column) but not both.

Cearbhall's example makes a perfectly wonderful illustration of exactly why that is, and also is a marvelous explanation of why what gets announced when it does depending on whether you are moving across (which will make column headings announced) versus down (which will get row headings announced).

My thanks for distilling this so very well.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 

 

---

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I believe this was suggested yesterday but I saw no response as to
whether this applies.  Do you have more than one sound card? When NVDA
is running, run another screen-reader, open synthesizer settings and see
what voice is selected.  If you are using more than one sound card, tab
to see what the output is.

Try another synthesizer.  You can run more than one screen-reader at
once.  If you try another one and you get speech, you will get speech
from both screen--readers at once.  Close one screen-reader,.


While I doubt this is the cause of the problem, the first thing to try
is NVDA key s.  Do you hear any speech saying anything like speech mode
on, speech mode off or speech mode beeps?  If you don't hear anything
after executing the command once, execute it two more times to be back
where you started from.


Gene

On 1/26/2022 2:53 PM, Steven Hicks wrote:

Yes, even if I start it after logon manually, it appears to load but there
is no speech.
I know it is running as when you do NVDA+q, you receive the quit screen.


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jackie
Sent: 26 January 2022 05:04
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Not Talking

Hi, Steven. Just because there's speech at logon does not mean there will
be speech once the computer has started. Both options need to be checked
in 'Preferences > Settings > General'. Specifically:
"Start NVDA after I sign in" needs to be checked.

On 1/25/22, Steven Hicks <hickser@...> wrote:

Hi friends,



I Have installed the latest NVDA on my laptop.

When I start up, there is speech at the logon screen but after logging
on, there is nothing at all, no speech.

During the installation, there was no speech either which seems quite
odd.

If I load up JAWS then I can use the NVDA+N and it would appear that
NVDA is running.

I Use NVDA+Q and JAWS will read the NVDA quit screen but again, there
is no speech from NVDA itself.

When I type, there is a high pitched sound for some reason until I
unload NVDA.

I Tried uninstalling NVDA and re-installing but the same thing seems
to have happened afterwards.

Does anyone have any ideas please?

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.

Thanks, I tried that an nothing happened.


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Isige
Sent: 26 January 2022 05:18
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Not Talking

Also, you might have speech mode set to beeps somehow, that's what the high-pitched noise makes me think of. Hit NVDA-s, and speech mode will toggle between talk, beeps, and off.


My other thought is that NVDA is picking another sound card/device that's not what you're listening through. If you've got another sound device with an output hooked up, some USB microphones have headphone jacks for example, try hooking up to that and see if NVDA's coming through it. If so, you can hit ctrl-NVDA-s to get into the synthesizer settings, and change the sound device from in there.


On 1/25/2022 11:03 PM, Jackie wrote:

Hi, Steven. Just because there's speech at logon does not mean there
will be speech once the computer has started. Both options need to be
checked in 'Preferences > Settings > General'. Specifically:
"Start NVDA after I sign in" needs to be checked.

On 1/25/22, Steven Hicks <hickser@...> wrote:

Hi friends,



I Have installed the latest NVDA on my laptop.

When I start up, there is speech at the logon screen but after
logging on, there is nothing at all, no speech.

During the installation, there was no speech either which seems quite odd.

If I load up JAWS then I can use the NVDA+N and it would appear that
NVDA is running.

I Use NVDA+Q and JAWS will read the NVDA quit screen but again, there
is no speech from NVDA itself.

When I type, there is a high pitched sound for some reason until I
unload NVDA.

I Tried uninstalling NVDA and re-installing but the same thing seems
to have happened afterwards.

Does anyone have any ideas please?

Yes, even if I start it after logon manually, it appears to load but there is no speech.
I know it is running as when you do NVDA+q, you receive the quit screen.


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jackie
Sent: 26 January 2022 05:04
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Not Talking

Hi, Steven. Just because there's speech at logon does not mean there will be speech once the computer has started. Both options need to be checked in 'Preferences > Settings > General'. Specifically:
"Start NVDA after I sign in" needs to be checked.

On 1/25/22, Steven Hicks <hickser@...> wrote:

Hi friends,



I Have installed the latest NVDA on my laptop.

When I start up, there is speech at the logon screen but after logging
on, there is nothing at all, no speech.

During the installation, there was no speech either which seems quite odd.

If I load up JAWS then I can use the NVDA+N and it would appear that
NVDA is running.

I Use NVDA+Q and JAWS will read the NVDA quit screen but again, there
is no speech from NVDA itself.

When I type, there is a high pitched sound for some reason until I
unload NVDA.

I Tried uninstalling NVDA and re-installing but the same thing seems
to have happened afterwards.

Does anyone have any ideas please?

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.

Hi, Steven. Just because there's speech at logon does not mean there
will be speech once the computer has started. Both options need to be
checked in 'Preferences > Settings > General'. Specifically:
"Start NVDA after I sign in" needs to be checked.

On 1/25/22, Steven Hicks <hickser@...> wrote:

Hi friends,



I Have installed the latest NVDA on my laptop.

When I start up, there is speech at the logon screen but after
logging on, there is nothing at all, no speech.

During the installation, there was no speech either which seems quite odd.

If I load up JAWS then I can use the NVDA+N and it would appear that
NVDA is running.

I Use NVDA+Q and JAWS will read the NVDA quit screen but again, there
is no speech from NVDA itself.

When I type, there is a high pitched sound for some reason until I
unload NVDA.

I Tried uninstalling NVDA and re-installing but the same thing seems
to have happened afterwards.

Does anyone have any ideas please?

Hi friends,



I Have installed the latest NVDA on my laptop.

When I start up, there is speech at the logon screen but after logging
on, there is nothing at all, no speech.

During the installation, there was no speech either which seems quite odd.

If I load up JAWS then I can use the NVDA+N and it would appear that
NVDA is running.

I Use NVDA+Q and JAWS will read the NVDA quit screen but again, there
is no speech from NVDA itself.

When I type, there is a high pitched sound for some reason until I
unload NVDA.

I Tried uninstalling NVDA and re-installing but the same thing seems
to have happened afterwards.

Does anyone have any ideas please?

Running latest Win 10 and nvda.  Looked through the user manual but can't find a way to have NVDA from saying blank on blank lines.  Can someone please direct me to where the setting is?
Thanks

Thanks, that did it! I had that set but I wonder if the problem was that I set it in the general configuration, i.e. in NVDA outside of Excel? I did apply and then save it, but I wonder if it didn't get carried over into the Excel profile? Well I set it up, saved the workbook, and hit ctrl-NVDA-c to save the current configuration while in Excel. Opening the workbook again works, so yay!

John,

 

Your table looks fine.

 

Have you set these three parameters in Document configuration in the excel profile?:

1. Open an Excel worksheet to open the Excel profile;
2. Press NVDA+Control+d for Document settings;
3. Check all of these items:

   Tables

    row/column headings

   Cell co-ordinates;

1. Press control+shift +r to set row headings.

If those are all set, you should hear the row headings as described.

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Isige
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2022 2:44 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Reading row or column headers in Excel, how does it work?

 

Thanks, everybody! I have a table like so:

 

A1: title

a2: artist

a3: album

 

If I go to A1 and hit NVDA-shift-c to set column headers, and then arrow down to A2, all is well, I hear Jalla Jalla, which is a track title, followed by A2. However, when I arrow right to B2, I hear Frigg B2. It is my understanding now, and thanks for the great explanation, that I *should* hear Frigg B2 artist.

 

I generated my table by making a CSV file from MP3Tag and then importing that file into Excel, and then saving the resulting worksheet, or workbook, or whatever it is. Could that be the problem? To check I hit ctrl-n to make a new thingy and did:

 

A1: stuff

B1: more stuff

C1: still more stuff

 

A2: 3

B2: 4

C2: 5

 

Arrowing down and then right just gave me 4 B2, rather than 4 B2 more stuff, which is what I'd expect from the explanation.

 

On 1/25/2022 5:24 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 05:35 PM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote:

In a sample table like this:

A1= Invoice; b1=Name; c1= Date; d1= Cost ; ….

A2= 4000004325; B2=Fred Smith; C2= 02/02/2022; d2= $25.15; …   ….

 

-
One of the things that many have trouble wrapping their heads around, and I include myself, is that column headings reside in a ROW, and row headings reside in a COLUMN.  And, of course, depending on the format of the chart in question it may have only column headings (in one row) or row headings (in one column) but not both.

Cearbhall's example makes a perfectly wonderful illustration of exactly why that is, and also is a marvelous explanation of why what gets announced when it does depending on whether you are moving across (which will make column headings announced) versus down (which will get row headings announced).

My thanks for distilling this so very well.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 

 

---

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com

Running latest Win 10 and nvda.  Looked through the user manual but can't find a way to have NVDA from saying blank on blank lines.  Can someone please direct me to where the setting is?
Thanks

However the code factory guys are blaming nvda, so who is at fault here, I can’t test as I have the nvda/sapi combo I got for $50 last year, not the sapi addon only. Actually, can I test this using the nvda only addon?

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Mullins
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2022 9:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA announcing Capital letters

 

Hi

From the input so far on this issue, it sounds like the addon may interrogate the NVDA Voice property for “Say cap” and if it is not checked, it defaults to inserting the word “Capital” before processing an individual capital letter, otherwise NVDA takes responsib ility for indicating the capital letter.  This may also apply to Pitch Change and Bleep  as well but I have not seen any evidence that this is the case.

 

Cheers

                Chris

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Steve Nutt
Sent: 26 January 2022 14:17
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA announcing Capital letters

 

Hi,

 

It happens equally on the SAPI version of Vocalizer, I can tell you that.

 

And it is not, as Brian suggests, an isolated problem, it is easy to reproduce.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

--

To subscribe to our News and Special Offers list, go to https://www.comproom.co.uk/subscribe

 

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

T: +44(0)1438-742286

M: +44(0)7956-334938

F: +44(0)1438-759589

E: steve@...

W: https://www.comproom.co.uk

 

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene

Sent: 25 January 2022 22:00

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA announcing Capital letters

 

I don't know how much you might want to do to pursue the problem further.  One option, which will cost money, is to get the SAPI Vocalizer voices,  You may want to try the program to see if you have the same problem.

 

You can find it on this page:

 

https://www.atguys.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=60_20

 

There are the methods to try to correct the problem Brian discussed and then there is this possible solution that will cost you money.  But I'm making you aware of the option, if you aren't.  And you may want to test for the problem using the SAPI demo.

 

 

Gene

 

On 1/25/2022 3:49 PM, Don H wrote:

> Yes there are setting under the code factory entery under settings.

> Same screen where you download more voices.  Nothing in the settings

> here fixes the issue of saying capital.

> 

> On 1/25/2022 3:44 PM, Gene wrote:

>> There is a way to open settings for the add-on itself but I don't

>> know how you do it.  I have a guess which I will present.  To explain

>> why this is my guess would require explanation which isn't relevant

>> to the discussion.  It has to do with what the expired demo does when

>> you try to run it.  When you are using a vocalizer voice, try opening

>> the synthesizer dialog, control NVDA s, moving to the Vocalizer

>> choice, and pressing enter.  Does the settings dialog open?

>> 

>> 

>> I have an expired demo.  The only setting I can see that might

>> possibly apply is one for raising the pitch for capital.  As I

>> recall, it is a check box.  There is no say cap or say capital

>> setting.  Maybe if you turn on the raise pitch option, capital won't be spoken.

>> 

>> 

>> Gene

>> 

>> On 1/25/2022 3:05 PM, Chris Mullins wrote:

>> 

>>> Hi Don

>>> 

>>> If  in the Voice Settings dialog (NVDA+Ctrl+v),you set Uppercase

>>> pitch change to 0, Say Cap unchecked and Beep before Capitals

>>> unchecked you say NVDA says "Capital" before capital letters but if

>>> you check the "say Cap" checkbox, it only says "Cap", is that correct?

>>> 

>>> Does the Code Factory addon have any adjustable properties available

>>> via the Preferences sub-menu (NVDA+n p) or in the catagories list of

>>> the Settings dialog (NVDA+n p s)?  I'm asking these questions

>>> because I think it's the Code Factory addon that is responsible for

>>> it saying "Capital" and I wondered if there were any adjustable

>>> properties governing this behaviour.

>>> 

>>> Cheers

>>> 

>>>                 Chris

>>> 

>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for

>>> Windows

>>> 

>>> *From: *Don H <mailto:lmddh50@...>

>>> *Sent: *25 January 2022 14:21

>>> *To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io

>>> *Subject: *Re: [nvda] NVDA announcing Capital letters

>>> 

>>> I think I started this thread and here is what I have figured out.

>>> When

>>> 

>>> using the code Factory vocalizer addon for NVDA if you have the

>>> voice

>>> 

>>> settings to not say cap and also have the beep for caps off on my

>>> system

>>> 

>>> NVDA says the word capital before each uppercase letter.  To make

>>> this

>>> 

>>> better in my opinion I now have my voice settings set with a pitch

>>> 

>>> change on caps on zero and I have say cap on capitaleters turned on. 

>>> So

>>> 

>>> now on capital letters NVDA says cap before each uppercase letter

>>> and I

>>> 

>>> hear no pitch change on capitals.  This makes the verbage on capital

>>> 

>>> letters a little better.

>>> 

>>> I did also make it stop saying capital by adding each uppercase

>>> letter

>>> 

>>> to the default dictionary replacing each with a lowercase letter and

>>> 

>>> this resulted in only hearing a pitch change on uppercase letters

>>> but

>>> 

>>> for some reason this pitch only for uppercase letters was

>>> inconsistent

>>> 

>>> with some uppercase letters being typed not having a raised pitch. 

>>> I

>>> 

>>> removed all the enteries I made to the default dictionary.

>>> 

>>> On 1/25/2022 3:59 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:

>>> 

>>> > Interesting, I’ll test it again, but when I’ve tried it before, I

>>> didn’t

>>> 

>>> > get beeps when I set capitals to beep.

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > All the best

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > Steve

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > --

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > To subscribe to our News and Special Offers list, go to

>>> 

>>> > https://www.comproom.co.uk/subscribe

>>> <https://www.comproom.co.uk/subscribe>

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > Computer Room Services

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > 77 Exeter Close

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > Stevenage

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > Hertfordshire

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > SG1 4PW

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > T: +44(0)1438-742286

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > M: +44(0)7956-334938

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > F: +44(0)1438-759589

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > E: steve@... <mailto:steve@...>

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > W: https://www.comproom.co.uk <https://www.comproom.co.uk>

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > *From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of

>>> > *Gene

>>> 

>>> > *Sent:* 21 January 2022 17:08

>>> 

>>> > *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io

>>> 

>>> > *Subject:* Re: [nvda] NVDA announcing Capital letters

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > I just tested this.  It comes through the sound card.

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > Gene

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > On 1/21/2022 10:53 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     I think this is because the beep option unhelpfully comes

>>> >through

>>> 

>>> >     the PC speaker, instead of your soundcard.

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     Some PCs don’t have a PC speaker any more, so the beep sound

>>> won’t

>>> 

>>> >     work for them.

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     I think this should be changed in NVDA.

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     All the best

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     Steve

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     --

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     To subscribe to our News and Special Offers list, go to

>>> 

>>> > https://www.comproom.co.uk/subscribe

>>> 

>>> > <https://www.comproom.co.uk/subscribe>

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     Computer Room Services

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     77 Exeter Close

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     Stevenage

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     Hertfordshire

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     SG1 4PW

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     T: +44(0)1438-742286

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     M: +44(0)7956-334938

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     F: +44(0)1438-759589

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     E: steve@... <mailto:steve@...>

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     W: https://www.comproom.co.uk <https://www.comproom.co.uk>

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     *From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>>> 

>>> > <nvda@nvda.groups.io> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of

>>> 

>>> >     *Marilyn and Don Bilderback

>>> 

>>> >     *Sent:* 20 January 2022 06:18

>>> 

>>> >     *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>>> 

>>> >     *Subject:* [nvda] NVDA announcing Capital letters

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     Hello,

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     I have the beep option checked but I get no sound when I type.

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >       I try to use the tone option, but   can’t seem to choose the

>>> 

>>> >        right numbers so I can use that method. I don’t hear   any

>>> change

>>> 

>>> >     in tone when caps are typed.

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     I do not like the word caps spoken as I can’t hear what I am

>>> 

>>> >     typing.    What am I missing?

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     Marilynn

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>> 

> 

> 

>

> 

> 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

John,

 

Your table looks fine.

 

Have you set these three parameters in Document configuration in the excel profile?:

1. Open an Excel worksheet to open the Excel profile;
2. Press NVDA+Control+d for Document settings;
3. Check all of these items:

   Tables

    row/column headings

   Cell co-ordinates;

1. Press control+shift +r to set row headings.

If those are all set, you should hear the row headings as described.

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Isige
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2022 2:44 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Reading row or column headers in Excel, how does it work?

 

Thanks, everybody! I have a table like so:

 

A1: title

a2: artist

a3: album

 

If I go to A1 and hit NVDA-shift-c to set column headers, and then arrow down to A2, all is well, I hear Jalla Jalla, which is a track title, followed by A2. However, when I arrow right to B2, I hear Frigg B2. It is my understanding now, and thanks for the great explanation, that I *should* hear Frigg B2 artist.

 

I generated my table by making a CSV file from MP3Tag and then importing that file into Excel, and then saving the resulting worksheet, or workbook, or whatever it is. Could that be the problem? To check I hit ctrl-n to make a new thingy and did:

 

A1: stuff

B1: more stuff

C1: still more stuff

 

A2: 3

B2: 4

C2: 5

 

Arrowing down and then right just gave me 4 B2, rather than 4 B2 more stuff, which is what I'd expect from the explanation.

 

On 1/25/2022 5:24 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 05:35 PM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote:

In a sample table like this:

A1= Invoice; b1=Name; c1= Date; d1= Cost ; ….

A2= 4000004325; B2=Fred Smith; C2= 02/02/2022; d2= $25.15; …   ….

 

-
One of the things that many have trouble wrapping their heads around, and I include myself, is that column headings reside in a ROW, and row headings reside in a COLUMN.  And, of course, depending on the format of the chart in question it may have only column headings (in one row) or row headings (in one column) but not both.

Cearbhall's example makes a perfectly wonderful illustration of exactly why that is, and also is a marvelous explanation of why what gets announced when it does depending on whether you are moving across (which will make column headings announced) versus down (which will get row headings announced).

My thanks for distilling this so very well.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 

---

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com

Hi

From the input so far on this issue, it sounds like the addon may interrogate the NVDA Voice property for “Say cap” and if it is not checked, it defaults to inserting the word “Capital” before processing an individual capital letter, otherwise NVDA takes responsib ility for indicating the capital letter.  This may also apply to Pitch Change and Bleep  as well but I have not seen any evidence that this is the case.

Cheers

                Chris

Sent from Mail for Windows

Hi,

It happens equally on the SAPI version of Vocalizer, I can tell you that.

And it is not, as Brian suggests, an isolated problem, it is easy to reproduce.

All the best

Steve

--

To subscribe to our News and Special Offers list, go to https://www.comproom.co.uk/subscribe

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

T: +44(0)1438-742286

M: +44(0)7956-334938

F: +44(0)1438-759589

E: steve@...

W: https://www.comproom.co.uk

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene

Sent: 25 January 2022 22:00

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA announcing Capital letters

I don't know how much you might want to do to pursue the problem further.  One option, which will cost money, is to get the SAPI Vocalizer voices,  You may want to try the program to see if you have the same problem.

You can find it on this page:

https://www.atguys.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=60_20

There are the methods to try to correct the problem Brian discussed and then there is this possible solution that will cost you money.  But I'm making you aware of the option, if you aren't.  And you may want to test for the problem using the SAPI demo.

Gene

On 1/25/2022 3:49 PM, Don H wrote:

> Yes there are setting under the code factory entery under settings.

> Same screen where you download more voices.  Nothing in the settings

> here fixes the issue of saying capital.

> 

> On 1/25/2022 3:44 PM, Gene wrote:

>> There is a way to open settings for the add-on itself but I don't

>> know how you do it.  I have a guess which I will present.  To explain

>> why this is my guess would require explanation which isn't relevant

>> to the discussion.  It has to do with what the expired demo does when

>> you try to run it.  When you are using a vocalizer voice, try opening

>> the synthesizer dialog, control NVDA s, moving to the Vocalizer

>> choice, and pressing enter.  Does the settings dialog open?

>> 

>> 

>> I have an expired demo.  The only setting I can see that might

>> possibly apply is one for raising the pitch for capital.  As I

>> recall, it is a check box.  There is no say cap or say capital

>> setting.  Maybe if you turn on the raise pitch option, capital won't be spoken.

>> 

>> 

>> Gene

>> 

>> On 1/25/2022 3:05 PM, Chris Mullins wrote:

>> 

>>> Hi Don

>>> 

>>> If  in the Voice Settings dialog (NVDA+Ctrl+v),you set Uppercase

>>> pitch change to 0, Say Cap unchecked and Beep before Capitals

>>> unchecked you say NVDA says "Capital" before capital letters but if

>>> you check the "say Cap" checkbox, it only says "Cap", is that correct?

>>> 

>>> Does the Code Factory addon have any adjustable properties available

>>> via the Preferences sub-menu (NVDA+n p) or in the catagories list of

>>> the Settings dialog (NVDA+n p s)?  I'm asking these questions

>>> because I think it's the Code Factory addon that is responsible for

>>> it saying "Capital" and I wondered if there were any adjustable

>>> properties governing this behaviour.

>>> 

>>> Cheers

>>> 

>>>                 Chris

>>> 

>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for

>>> Windows

>>> 

>>> *From: *Don H <mailto:lmddh50@...>

>>> *Sent: *25 January 2022 14:21

>>> *To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io

>>> *Subject: *Re: [nvda] NVDA announcing Capital letters

>>> 

>>> I think I started this thread and here is what I have figured out.

>>> When

>>> 

>>> using the code Factory vocalizer addon for NVDA if you have the

>>> voice

>>> 

>>> settings to not say cap and also have the beep for caps off on my

>>> system

>>> 

>>> NVDA says the word capital before each uppercase letter.  To make

>>> this

>>> 

>>> better in my opinion I now have my voice settings set with a pitch

>>> 

>>> change on caps on zero and I have say cap on capitaleters turned on. 

>>> So

>>> 

>>> now on capital letters NVDA says cap before each uppercase letter

>>> and I

>>> 

>>> hear no pitch change on capitals.  This makes the verbage on capital

>>> 

>>> letters a little better.

>>> 

>>> I did also make it stop saying capital by adding each uppercase

>>> letter

>>> 

>>> to the default dictionary replacing each with a lowercase letter and

>>> 

>>> this resulted in only hearing a pitch change on uppercase letters

>>> but

>>> 

>>> for some reason this pitch only for uppercase letters was

>>> inconsistent

>>> 

>>> with some uppercase letters being typed not having a raised pitch. 

>>> I

>>> 

>>> removed all the enteries I made to the default dictionary.

>>> 

>>> On 1/25/2022 3:59 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:

>>> 

>>> > Interesting, I’ll test it again, but when I’ve tried it before, I

>>> didn’t

>>> 

>>> > get beeps when I set capitals to beep.

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > All the best

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > Steve

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > --

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > To subscribe to our News and Special Offers list, go to

>>> 

>>> > https://www.comproom.co.uk/subscribe

>>> <https://www.comproom.co.uk/subscribe>

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > Computer Room Services

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > 77 Exeter Close

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > Stevenage

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > Hertfordshire

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > SG1 4PW

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > T: +44(0)1438-742286

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > M: +44(0)7956-334938

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > F: +44(0)1438-759589

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > E: steve@... <mailto:steve@...>

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > W: https://www.comproom.co.uk <https://www.comproom.co.uk>

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > *From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of

>>> > *Gene

>>> 

>>> > *Sent:* 21 January 2022 17:08

>>> 

>>> > *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io

>>> 

>>> > *Subject:* Re: [nvda] NVDA announcing Capital letters

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > I just tested this.  It comes through the sound card.

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > Gene

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > On 1/21/2022 10:53 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     I think this is because the beep option unhelpfully comes

>>> >through

>>> 

>>> >     the PC speaker, instead of your soundcard.

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     Some PCs don’t have a PC speaker any more, so the beep sound

>>> won’t

>>> 

>>> >     work for them.

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     I think this should be changed in NVDA.

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     All the best

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     Steve

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     --

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     To subscribe to our News and Special Offers list, go to

>>> 

>>> > https://www.comproom.co.uk/subscribe

>>> 

>>> > <https://www.comproom.co.uk/subscribe>

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     Computer Room Services

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     77 Exeter Close

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     Stevenage

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     Hertfordshire

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     SG1 4PW

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     T: +44(0)1438-742286

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     M: +44(0)7956-334938

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     F: +44(0)1438-759589

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     E: steve@... <mailto:steve@...>

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     W: https://www.comproom.co.uk <https://www.comproom.co.uk>

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     *From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>>> 

>>> > <nvda@nvda.groups.io> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of

>>> 

>>> >     *Marilyn and Don Bilderback

>>> 

>>> >     *Sent:* 20 January 2022 06:18

>>> 

>>> >     *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>>> 

>>> >     *Subject:* [nvda] NVDA announcing Capital letters

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     Hello,

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     I have the beep option checked but I get no sound when I type.

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >       I try to use the tone option, but   can’t seem to choose the

>>> 

>>> >        right numbers so I can use that method. I don’t hear   any

>>> change

>>> 

>>> >     in tone when caps are typed.

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     I do not like the word caps spoken as I can’t hear what I am

>>> 

>>> >     typing.    What am I missing?

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     Marilynn

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>> 

> 

> 

>

> 

> 

Hi,

It happens equally on the SAPI version of Vocalizer, I can tell you that.

And it is not, as Brian suggests, an isolated problem, it is easy to reproduce.

All the best

Steve

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-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene

Sent: 25 January 2022 22:00

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA announcing Capital letters

I don't know how much you might want to do to pursue the problem further.  One option, which will cost money, is to get the SAPI Vocalizer voices,  You may want to try the program to see if you have the same problem.

You can find it on this page:

https://www.atguys.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=60_20

There are the methods to try to correct the problem Brian discussed and then there is this possible solution that will cost you money.  But I'm making you aware of the option, if you aren't.  And you may want to test for the problem using the SAPI demo.

Gene

On 1/25/2022 3:49 PM, Don H wrote:

> Yes there are setting under the code factory entery under settings.

> Same screen where you download more voices.  Nothing in the settings

> here fixes the issue of saying capital.

> 

> On 1/25/2022 3:44 PM, Gene wrote:

>> There is a way to open settings for the add-on itself but I don't

>> know how you do it.  I have a guess which I will present.  To explain

>> why this is my guess would require explanation which isn't relevant

>> to the discussion.  It has to do with what the expired demo does when

>> you try to run it.  When you are using a vocalizer voice, try opening

>> the synthesizer dialog, control NVDA s, moving to the Vocalizer

>> choice, and pressing enter.  Does the settings dialog open?

>> 

>> 

>> I have an expired demo.  The only setting I can see that might

>> possibly apply is one for raising the pitch for capital.  As I

>> recall, it is a check box.  There is no say cap or say capital

>> setting.  Maybe if you turn on the raise pitch option, capital won't be spoken.

>> 

>> 

>> Gene

>> 

>> On 1/25/2022 3:05 PM, Chris Mullins wrote:

>> 

>>> Hi Don

>>> 

>>> If  in the Voice Settings dialog (NVDA+Ctrl+v),you set Uppercase

>>> pitch change to 0, Say Cap unchecked and Beep before Capitals

>>> unchecked you say NVDA says "Capital" before capital letters but if

>>> you check the "say Cap" checkbox, it only says "Cap", is that correct?

>>> 

>>> Does the Code Factory addon have any adjustable properties available

>>> via the Preferences sub-menu (NVDA+n p) or in the catagories list of

>>> the Settings dialog (NVDA+n p s)?  I'm asking these questions

>>> because I think it's the Code Factory addon that is responsible for

>>> it saying "Capital" and I wondered if there were any adjustable

>>> properties governing this behaviour.

>>> 

>>> Cheers

>>> 

>>>                 Chris

>>> 

>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for

>>> Windows

>>> 

>>> *From: *Don H <mailto:lmddh50@...>

>>> *Sent: *25 January 2022 14:21

>>> *To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io

>>> *Subject: *Re: [nvda] NVDA announcing Capital letters

>>> 

>>> I think I started this thread and here is what I have figured out.

>>> When

>>> 

>>> using the code Factory vocalizer addon for NVDA if you have the

>>> voice

>>> 

>>> settings to not say cap and also have the beep for caps off on my

>>> system

>>> 

>>> NVDA says the word capital before each uppercase letter.  To make

>>> this

>>> 

>>> better in my opinion I now have my voice settings set with a pitch

>>> 

>>> change on caps on zero and I have say cap on capitaleters turned on. 

>>> So

>>> 

>>> now on capital letters NVDA says cap before each uppercase letter

>>> and I

>>> 

>>> hear no pitch change on capitals.  This makes the verbage on capital

>>> 

>>> letters a little better.

>>> 

>>> I did also make it stop saying capital by adding each uppercase

>>> letter

>>> 

>>> to the default dictionary replacing each with a lowercase letter and

>>> 

>>> this resulted in only hearing a pitch change on uppercase letters

>>> but

>>> 

>>> for some reason this pitch only for uppercase letters was

>>> inconsistent

>>> 

>>> with some uppercase letters being typed not having a raised pitch. 

>>> I

>>> 

>>> removed all the enteries I made to the default dictionary.

>>> 

>>> On 1/25/2022 3:59 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:

>>> 

>>> > Interesting, I’ll test it again, but when I’ve tried it before, I

>>> didn’t

>>> 

>>> > get beeps when I set capitals to beep.

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > All the best

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > Steve

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > --

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > To subscribe to our News and Special Offers list, go to

>>> 

>>> > https://www.comproom.co.uk/subscribe

>>> <https://www.comproom.co.uk/subscribe>

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > Computer Room Services

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > 77 Exeter Close

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > Stevenage

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > Hertfordshire

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > SG1 4PW

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > T: +44(0)1438-742286

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > M: +44(0)7956-334938

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > F: +44(0)1438-759589

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > E: steve@... <mailto:steve@...>

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > W: https://www.comproom.co.uk <https://www.comproom.co.uk>

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > *From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of

>>> > *Gene

>>> 

>>> > *Sent:* 21 January 2022 17:08

>>> 

>>> > *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io

>>> 

>>> > *Subject:* Re: [nvda] NVDA announcing Capital letters

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > I just tested this.  It comes through the sound card.

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > Gene

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> > On 1/21/2022 10:53 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     I think this is because the beep option unhelpfully comes

>>> >through

>>> 

>>> >     the PC speaker, instead of your soundcard.

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     Some PCs don’t have a PC speaker any more, so the beep sound

>>> won’t

>>> 

>>> >     work for them.

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     I think this should be changed in NVDA.

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     All the best

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     Steve

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     --

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     To subscribe to our News and Special Offers list, go to

>>> 

>>> > https://www.comproom.co.uk/subscribe

>>> 

>>> > <https://www.comproom.co.uk/subscribe>

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     Computer Room Services

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     77 Exeter Close

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     Stevenage

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     Hertfordshire

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     SG1 4PW

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     T: +44(0)1438-742286

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     M: +44(0)7956-334938

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     F: +44(0)1438-759589

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     E: steve@... <mailto:steve@...>

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     W: https://www.comproom.co.uk <https://www.comproom.co.uk>

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     *From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>>> 

>>> > <nvda@nvda.groups.io> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of

>>> 

>>> >     *Marilyn and Don Bilderback

>>> 

>>> >     *Sent:* 20 January 2022 06:18

>>> 

>>> >     *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>>> 

>>> >     *Subject:* [nvda] NVDA announcing Capital letters

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     Hello,

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     I have the beep option checked but I get no sound when I type.

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >       I try to use the tone option, but   can’t seem to choose the

>>> 

>>> >        right numbers so I can use that method. I don’t hear   any

>>> change

>>> 

>>> >     in tone when caps are typed.

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     I do not like the word caps spoken as I can’t hear what I am

>>> 

>>> >     typing.    What am I missing?

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >     Marilynn

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>>> >

>>> 

>> 

> 

> 

>

> 

>