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Re: New Video: How to Control your mouse with NVDA without ever touching it

Brian Vogel
 

Gene,

I think the use of the mouse with NVDA is NVDA related, and, in fact, there is reference to physical mouse "participation" in the Mouse Navigation commands section.

That being said, it is well-nigh impossible to speak in anything but the broadest of generalities because exactly how the mouse settings are configured makes a huge difference in how much mouse movement equates to how much pointer movement.

The two things I suggest to anyone who intends to try out the actual mouse with a screen reader is that they first do mouse exploration on a screen with which they are already intimately familiar otherwise.  It allows you to get a sense of what amount of mouse movement equates to "a certain travel distance and speed" as well as sometimes revealing how the physical/visual layout of the screen does not equate to the traversal order built by the screen reader.  There can be insanely sloppy HTML code that creates absolutely visually perfect screens for a sighted user, but where how that gets loaded has little relation to how someone who sees actually sees, and thus is guided to traverse, that screen.

You can also then get a sense as to whether your mouse settings are "too sensitive" as far as movement goes.  If the tiniest of movement shoots you entirely across or down (or diagonally) on the page some settings tweaking to slow it down may be needed.

Start with very small and slow movement and then, once you hit a control you know well, try doing either an organized up/down zig-zag from side to side of the screen or left/right zig-zag up and down the screen.  Listen to what's announced when as far as familiar controls.

Once you have some idea of how your mouse behaves and no longer feel completely weirded out by "mousing blind" try it on the screen with the inaccessible (or cranky, anyway) controls trying to find them with whichever form of organized pan and scan of the screen with the mouse you find yourself most comfortable with.

You can't break anything, that's for sure.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

I neither need nor want to be appeased, but apprised.  Inconvenient truth is preferable to convenient (for the liar) lies.

     ~ Brian Vogel

 
Re: Code Factory NVDA Eloquence Add-on

Gene
 

While the server goes down now and then, and I think code factory uses a bad authorization system, this problem isn't the fault of the system.  I have the same problem and I also can't use the JAWS voice assistant.  Both these utilities send error messages indicating that I may have an Internet connection problem.  My guess is that a setting was changed in my router by an update as a bug.  If I reset the router, the problem may disappear.  I may try it.  My guess is that currently, a port is blocked.


Gene

On 2/5/2022 9:36 AM, Chris Smart wrote:

You know, it’s things like this which drive people to the version we’re not supposed to talk about or use.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Wells
Sent: February 5, 2022 10:36 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Code Factory NVDA Eloquence Add-on

 

When I press the try button, the Code Factory NVDA add-on tells me that I don't have an Internet connection. At this point, I have to kill it in task manager.

On 2/4/2022 6:30 PM, Gene wrote:

You may have told us earlier, but why do you think you might not be able to try it?

 

Gene

On 2/4/2022 6:16 PM, Richard Wells wrote:

Abbie: I have contacted A. T. Guys and they referred me to Code Factory. I have filled out their support ticket form and am awaiting a response. If you are open to it, I would like to talk to you about specific concerns if I am unable to try it before purchase. Thanks

On 2/4/2022 5:40 PM, Abbie Taylor wrote:

Richard, is this the add-on from AT Guys? If so, you might contact them. They're pretty good about responding. I actually purchased the Vocalizer/Eloquence add-on from them, and it works pretty well. Since I've experienced these voices on other devices, I knew what they were like and didn't need to try them first. I hope that helps.

Re: Code Factory NVDA Eloquence Add-on

Gene
 

That may be the result of a router problem.  I'm not sure how you would have it checked.  Do you have settings you have changed in your router and perhaps a different password than the default?  You could try resetting, not just rebooting the router but if you do, any changes you have made will be lost. 


But if you want to use the voices, the problem must be resolved.  It isn't just the demo license that requires verification from Code factory, the full version does as well.  If you can't use the demo, you won't be able to use the full version either.


Gene

On 2/5/2022 9:35 AM, Richard Wells wrote:

When I press the try button, the Code Factory NVDA add-on tells me that I don't have an Internet connection. At this point, I have to kill it in task manager.

On 2/4/2022 6:30 PM, Gene wrote:

You may have told us earlier, but why do you think you might not be able to try it?


Gene

On 2/4/2022 6:16 PM, Richard Wells wrote:

Abbie: I have contacted A. T. Guys and they referred me to Code Factory. I have filled out their support ticket form and am awaiting a response. If you are open to it, I would like to talk to you about specific concerns if I am unable to try it before purchase. Thanks

On 2/4/2022 5:40 PM, Abbie Taylor wrote:
Richard, is this the add-on from AT Guys? If so, you might contact them. They're pretty good about responding. I actually purchased the Vocalizer/Eloquence add-on from them, and it works pretty well. Since I've experienced these voices on other devices, I knew what they were like and didn't need to try them first. I hope that helps.

Re: New Video: How to Control your mouse with NVDA without ever touching it

Brian Vogel
 

On Sat, Feb 5, 2022 at 04:49 AM, The Gamages wrote:
I am probably missing the point here, but what is the matter with copying or cutting and pasting into the required folder?
-
You are, in that TheeQuinn had mentioned that she had not yet found any way to use the left mouse lock and right mouse lock functions of NVDA mouse navigation.

All I was trying to do was to see if I could do what amounted to a sighted drag and drop of a file into a folder using them.

You are indeed correct about copy/cut and paste being the preferred, much easier, and much more reliable way to do this using a screen reader.   And if I'm honest, if more than one or two files, and definitely ones that are selected in non-contiguous chunks in a folder, are involved, I far prefer doing a cut and paste with the keyboard myself.  I have always found keyboard cut, copy, and paste to be things that are much easier to use in certain contexts than point and click select with the shift or control modifier key (to snag multiple files) and trying to drag and drop them is.  I have on way more than one occasion spent several minutes doing a lengthy point and click selection of specific files only to have an accidental finger twitch just before I start to drag, which unselects the whole lot.  So I do complex selection with the mouse, then I either cut/copy with the keyboard and paste in the destination.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

I neither need nor want to be appeased, but apprised.  Inconvenient truth is preferable to convenient (for the liar) lies.

     ~ Brian Vogel

 
Re: Code Factory NVDA Eloquence Add-on

Chris Smart
 

You know, it’s things like this which drive people to the version we’re not supposed to talk about or use.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Wells
Sent: February 5, 2022 10:36 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Code Factory NVDA Eloquence Add-on

 

When I press the try button, the Code Factory NVDA add-on tells me that I don't have an Internet connection. At this point, I have to kill it in task manager.

On 2/4/2022 6:30 PM, Gene wrote:

You may have told us earlier, but why do you think you might not be able to try it?

 

Gene

On 2/4/2022 6:16 PM, Richard Wells wrote:

Abbie: I have contacted A. T. Guys and they referred me to Code Factory. I have filled out their support ticket form and am awaiting a response. If you are open to it, I would like to talk to you about specific concerns if I am unable to try it before purchase. Thanks

On 2/4/2022 5:40 PM, Abbie Taylor wrote:

Richard, is this the add-on from AT Guys? If so, you might contact them. They're pretty good about responding. I actually purchased the Vocalizer/Eloquence add-on from them, and it works pretty well. Since I've experienced these voices on other devices, I knew what they were like and didn't need to try them first. I hope that helps.

Re: Code Factory NVDA Eloquence Add-on

Richard Wells
 

When I press the try button, the Code Factory NVDA add-on tells me that I don't have an Internet connection. At this point, I have to kill it in task manager.

On 2/4/2022 6:30 PM, Gene wrote:

You may have told us earlier, but why do you think you might not be able to try it?


Gene

On 2/4/2022 6:16 PM, Richard Wells wrote:

Abbie: I have contacted A. T. Guys and they referred me to Code Factory. I have filled out their support ticket form and am awaiting a response. If you are open to it, I would like to talk to you about specific concerns if I am unable to try it before purchase. Thanks

On 2/4/2022 5:40 PM, Abbie Taylor wrote:
Richard, is this the add-on from AT Guys? If so, you might contact them. They're pretty good about responding. I actually purchased the Vocalizer/Eloquence add-on from them, and it works pretty well. Since I've experienced these voices on other devices, I knew what they were like and didn't need to try them first. I hope that helps.

acapela

mattias
 

anyone else have issues with acapela today?

i try to deactivate a license but keep getting this suspected message:

no deactivation mode
Re: New Video: How to Control your mouse with NVDA without ever touching it

The Gamages
 

Hello,


I am probably missing the point here, but what is the matter with copying or cutting and pasting into the required folder?


Best Regards, Jim.


On 04/02/2022 23:18, Brian Vogel wrote:
TheeQuinn,

I have tried, and tried, and tried again to make use of the left mouse lock button for drag and drop without involving the physical mouse at all, theoretically "picking up" a file in file explorer by using Left Mouse Lock, moving focus to a folder where I want to drop it, selecting that folder (or not selecting it, that hasn't mattered), routing the mouse to the navigator object (which should be that said folder), then hitting the Left Mouse Lock again, which should release that file on to the folder and move it.  It never works.

If anyone can show a use for the left mouse lock where you can pick up something for dragging, then dropping it via using that key sequence again, without any involvement of the physical mouse I'd love to see it.

I have never had any luck with emulated drag and drop under either JAWS or NVDA.  It either doesn't work, or there is something about the process that I am skipping, missing, or doing that causes inadvertent abandonment of the pick-up of the thing to be dropped.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

I neither need nor want to be appeased, but apprised.  Inconvenient truth is preferable to convenient (for the liar) lies.

     ~ Brian Vogel

 

--

Re: Unable to activate certain buttons with NVDA

neeraj.chouksey@...
 
Edited

aria-hidden is given to the <svg> tag which seems to be fine and I don't think that this is causing the problem since all screen reader is announcing the checkbox correctly except NVDA.
 
Re: New Video: How to Control your mouse with NVDA without ever touching it

Gene
 

This topic reminds me of something that you, Brian, have mentioned now and then, using a physical mouse.  I'm not sure if the topic is related enough to NVDA to be discussed here.  I'll move it to the chat list if you wish.  But I'd like to play around on a web site where audio is difficult to get to  play using the keyboard and the virtual mouse.  Is there anything I should know about moving the mouse systematically on screen?  Should I try to move the mouse away from me until it is at the top of the screen, then move back and forth, then move the mouse a little toward me and do the same thing again, at least at the beginning?


Gene

On 2/4/2022 3:16 PM, TheeQuinn Public wrote:
Hey guys it has been a while but I am back.
I realized that not a lot of persons knew that this was possible with NVDA and it can be very useful at times. In this video I outline the commands that NVDA provides for moving and using the mouse, examples of situations that you can use them in and how you can customize the commands.
Unfortunately I couldn't find an example for the right and left button locks so if anyone could enlighten me that would be awesome so that I could share it with others as well. Here is the link ENJOY!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPRmeSjm07w

Re: The Mozilla Apps Enhancements Add-On: How to use it to customize Thunderbird mailbox columns displayed

Gene
 

Probably a lot of people don't know that.  I remember seeing it discussed awhile ago on a list.  Some people here may benefit from seeing your comment.  I still like the idea that I don't have to do any troubleshooting if the program becomes corrupted.  I didn't know what you told me when I started using the portable version but I like that advantage.


Gene

On 2/4/2022 9:09 PM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Gene,

Whether Thunderbird is portable or installed, all you have to do is copy the  Thunderbird folder under the roaming folder and then after doing a new installation on a new system, just paste the original folder into the roaming folder on the new system. that's the way it has worked for years.


On 2/4/2022 10:39 AM, Gene wrote:

I use Thunderbird portable and the add-on works properly.  Indeed, the more I see the advantages of using Thunderbird portable, the more strongly I maintain that if you are going to use Thunderbird, it should be the portable version.


As some people may know on the list, I just got a Windows 10 machine.  Because I use Thunderbird portable, all I had to do was copy the files from my old machine to my new one.  The add-on that allows first letter navigation was preserved, and my address book was preserved. 


Also, if something becomes corrupted I don't have to spend any time troubleshooting.  I just delete the copy I'm using and place a backup where the copy was that I was using. 


The same with Firefox portable.  I copied the files and my book marks and history are present on the new machine.


Gene

On 2/4/2022 9:11 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Fri, Feb 4, 2022 at 04:53 AM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
have been using this add-on for quite a while, but, if I try to activate the options button right now, in the portable version of thunderbird,
-
1.  I did not know that there even existed a portable version of Thunderbird.

2.  There are times, and this may be one of them, where how a portable version behaves and an installed version behaves are very different.  While this is unusual, it is absolutely not unheard of.

I use portable versions of all sorts of programs, but an email client would not be among the class of program that I, personally, want the portable version for.

All testing was done with NVDA 2021.3, the latest version of the Mozilla App Enhancements Add-On, and installed Thunderbird version 91.5.1 (32-bit).  As a general rule, I try as best I can to keep absolutely everything updated to their respective latest versions. Once the Options button is pressed, the behavior I get arrowing through the column selection column and checking, unchecking (with the exception of the announce only once weirdness) is precisely the same as I get with no screen reader involved and doing the same actions via the keyboard (as a mouse point and click is not the same test).  It does not just randomly close, I have to hit Escape to close it.

By the way, with the "announce only once" weirdness if I arrow off, then back on, to the column in the list when I land on it again the checked/unchecked status is always announced.  It's only when you remain sitting on that column and keep hitting Enter to toggle the status that things remain silent.  So if you've somehow forgotten whether the column you currently have focus on is checked or unchecked, just up or down arrow off of it then up or down arrow back on to it and you'll know.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


-- 
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grevous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!
Re: The Mozilla Apps Enhancements Add-On: How to use it to customize Thunderbird mailbox columns displayed

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Gene,

Whether Thunderbird is portable or installed, all you have to do is copy the  Thunderbird folder under the roaming folder and then after doing a new installation on a new system, just paste the original folder into the roaming folder on the new system. that's the way it has worked for years.


On 2/4/2022 10:39 AM, Gene wrote:

I use Thunderbird portable and the add-on works properly.  Indeed, the more I see the advantages of using Thunderbird portable, the more strongly I maintain that if you are going to use Thunderbird, it should be the portable version.


As some people may know on the list, I just got a Windows 10 machine.  Because I use Thunderbird portable, all I had to do was copy the files from my old machine to my new one.  The add-on that allows first letter navigation was preserved, and my address book was preserved. 


Also, if something becomes corrupted I don't have to spend any time troubleshooting.  I just delete the copy I'm using and place a backup where the copy was that I was using. 


The same with Firefox portable.  I copied the files and my book marks and history are present on the new machine.


Gene

On 2/4/2022 9:11 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Fri, Feb 4, 2022 at 04:53 AM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
have been using this add-on for quite a while, but, if I try to activate the options button right now, in the portable version of thunderbird,
-
1.  I did not know that there even existed a portable version of Thunderbird.

2.  There are times, and this may be one of them, where how a portable version behaves and an installed version behaves are very different.  While this is unusual, it is absolutely not unheard of.

I use portable versions of all sorts of programs, but an email client would not be among the class of program that I, personally, want the portable version for.

All testing was done with NVDA 2021.3, the latest version of the Mozilla App Enhancements Add-On, and installed Thunderbird version 91.5.1 (32-bit).  As a general rule, I try as best I can to keep absolutely everything updated to their respective latest versions. Once the Options button is pressed, the behavior I get arrowing through the column selection column and checking, unchecking (with the exception of the announce only once weirdness) is precisely the same as I get with no screen reader involved and doing the same actions via the keyboard (as a mouse point and click is not the same test).  It does not just randomly close, I have to hit Escape to close it.

By the way, with the "announce only once" weirdness if I arrow off, then back on, to the column in the list when I land on it again the checked/unchecked status is always announced.  It's only when you remain sitting on that column and keep hitting Enter to toggle the status that things remain silent.  So if you've somehow forgotten whether the column you currently have focus on is checked or unchecked, just up or down arrow off of it then up or down arrow back on to it and you'll know.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


-- 
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grevous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!
Re: Code Factory NVDA Eloquence Add-on

Gene
 

You may have told us earlier, but why do you think you might not be able to try it?


Gene

On 2/4/2022 6:16 PM, Richard Wells wrote:

Abbie: I have contacted A. T. Guys and they referred me to Code Factory. I have filled out their support ticket form and am awaiting a response. If you are open to it, I would like to talk to you about specific concerns if I am unable to try it before purchase. Thanks

On 2/4/2022 5:40 PM, Abbie Taylor wrote:
Richard, is this the add-on from AT Guys? If so, you might contact them. They're pretty good about responding. I actually purchased the Vocalizer/Eloquence add-on from them, and it works pretty well. Since I've experienced these voices on other devices, I knew what they were like and didn't need to try them first. I hope that helps.

Re: Code Factory NVDA Eloquence Add-on

Shaun Everiss
 

so happy I got their sapi voices.

On 5/02/2022 1:19 pm, Don H wrote:
I have contacted code factory in the past with questions and they have always replied stating it wasn't their problem but that of the screen reader.

On 2/4/2022 6:16 PM, Richard Wells wrote:
Abbie: I have contacted A. T. Guys and they referred me to Code Factory. I have filled out their support ticket form and am awaiting a response. If you are open to it, I would like to talk to you about specific concerns if I am unable to try it before purchase. Thanks

On 2/4/2022 5:40 PM, Abbie Taylor wrote:
Richard, is this the add-on from AT Guys? If so, you might contact them. They're pretty good about responding. I actually purchased the Vocalizer/Eloquence add-on from them, and it works pretty well. Since I've experienced these voices on other devices, I knew what they were like and didn't need to try them first. I hope that helps.


Re: Code Factory NVDA Eloquence Add-on

Don H
 

I have contacted code factory in the past with questions and they have always replied stating it wasn't their problem but that of the screen reader.

On 2/4/2022 6:16 PM, Richard Wells wrote:
Abbie: I have contacted A. T. Guys and they referred me to Code Factory. I have filled out their support ticket form and am awaiting a response. If you are open to it, I would like to talk to you about specific concerns if I am unable to try it before purchase. Thanks
On 2/4/2022 5:40 PM, Abbie Taylor wrote:
Richard, is this the add-on from AT Guys? If so, you might contact them. They're pretty good about responding. I actually purchased the Vocalizer/Eloquence add-on from them, and it works pretty well. Since I've experienced these voices on other devices, I knew what they were like and didn't need to try them first. I hope that helps.

Re: Code Factory NVDA Eloquence Add-on

Richard Wells
 

Abbie: I have contacted A. T. Guys and they referred me to Code Factory. I have filled out their support ticket form and am awaiting a response. If you are open to it, I would like to talk to you about specific concerns if I am unable to try it before purchase. Thanks

On 2/4/2022 5:40 PM, Abbie Taylor wrote:
Richard, is this the add-on from AT Guys? If so, you might contact them. They're pretty good about responding. I actually purchased the Vocalizer/Eloquence add-on from them, and it works pretty well. Since I've experienced these voices on other devices, I knew what they were like and didn't need to try them first. I hope that helps.

Re: New Video: How to Control your mouse with NVDA without ever touching it

Gene
 

I believe I got it to work when I had two My Computer windows opened with a different folder opened in each.  As I recall, though, it wasn't reliable.  I didn't try it much but I seem to recall that for some reason, it would work one time and not the next. 


Gene

On 2/4/2022 5:52 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Rick,

For me, this goes back to the Windows 7 era.  I have to believe someone, somewhere has made these commands work, but I'll be d*mned if I can get them to work.

I drag and drop "the sighted way" all the time.  I can see how being able to drag and drop equivalently with a screen reader could come in very handy, but I just cannot get it to work, ever.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

I neither need nor want to be appeased, but apprised.  Inconvenient truth is preferable to convenient (for the liar) lies.

     ~ Brian Vogel

 
Re: New Video: How to Control your mouse with NVDA without ever touching it

Brian Vogel
 

Rick,

For me, this goes back to the Windows 7 era.  I have to believe someone, somewhere has made these commands work, but I'll be d*mned if I can get them to work.

I drag and drop "the sighted way" all the time.  I can see how being able to drag and drop equivalently with a screen reader could come in very handy, but I just cannot get it to work, ever.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

I neither need nor want to be appeased, but apprised.  Inconvenient truth is preferable to convenient (for the liar) lies.

     ~ Brian Vogel

 
Re: Code Factory NVDA Eloquence Add-on

Abbie Taylor
 

Richard, is this the add-on from AT Guys? If so, you might contact them. They're pretty good about responding. I actually purchased the Vocalizer/Eloquence add-on from them, and it works pretty well. Since I've experienced these voices on other devices, I knew what they were like and didn't need to try them first. I hope that helps.
Re: New Video: How to Control your mouse with NVDA without ever touching it

Rick Alfaro
 

Brian,

 

I’m very glad to see your message as I have the exact same issues with these drag and drop keystrokes under NVDA and Jaws22. I’m now on Windows 11 but had the same issues in Windows 10. I’m beginning to wonder if there is something funky about the keyboard I’ve been using which is a Logitech G910 full size keyboard.

 

 

 

Warmest regards

 

Rick Alfaro

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, February 4, 2022 6:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] New Video: How to Control your mouse with NVDA without ever touching it

 

TheeQuinn,

I have tried, and tried, and tried again to make use of the left mouse lock button for drag and drop without involving the physical mouse at all, theoretically "picking up" a file in file explorer by using Left Mouse Lock, moving focus to a folder where I want to drop it, selecting that folder (or not selecting it, that hasn't mattered), routing the mouse to the navigator object (which should be that said folder), then hitting the Left Mouse Lock again, which should release that file on to the folder and move it.  It never works.

If anyone can show a use for the left mouse lock where you can pick up something for dragging, then dropping it via using that key sequence again, without any involvement of the physical mouse I'd love to see it.

I have never had any luck with emulated drag and drop under either JAWS or NVDA.  It either doesn't work, or there is something about the process that I am skipping, missing, or doing that causes inadvertent abandonment of the pick-up of the thing to be dropped.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

I neither need nor want to be appeased, but apprised.  Inconvenient truth is preferable to convenient (for the liar) lies.

     ~ Brian Vogel

 
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