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Re: Rearranging the taskbar

Brian Vogel
 

On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 11:18 AM, Gene wrote:
I tried to drag and drop a file from one folder to another and I couldn't but those with knowledge and experience will have to see what results they get when they play around.
-
Well, I cannot get it to work for love nor money in the context of File Explorer and trying to drag and drop a file into a folder, and that's whether I use keyboard left mouse click, or left mouse lock/unlock, after I have routed the mouse to the cursor location for the folder where I want to drop it.

It will be interesting to see where this works versus where it doesn't, but even if it's only for rearranging taskbar icons it's a huge step forward!

I'm not going to keep playing with this as I don't have the patience and there are really few contexts where drag and drop is the only option to accomplish something.  There are some, though.  This is someone else's "let me play with this until I'm exhausted" thing.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

I neither need nor want to be appeased, but apprised.  Inconvenient truth is preferable to convenient (for the liar) lies.

     ~ Brian Vogel

 
Re: Rearranging the taskbar

Gene
 

Thank you.


I hope so.  I haven't used drag and drop in other contexts to discuss that.  I tried to drag and drop a file from one folder to another and I couldn't but those with knowledge and experience will have to see what results they get when they play around.


Gene

On 2/7/2022 10:05 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Gene,

First, this is brilliant.  I've played around for years, but strictly sticking to the keyboard, and it has always been the "final drop" step, trying to use the mouse unlock key sequence, that bombs out.  If all it requires is the use of a real left click, this opens a multitude of doors for keyboard drag and drop so long as the user uses left click as the drop.

I am repeating those instructions below, but with the steps numbered (which makes them easier for me to follow just because I can easily remember which step I was on last if I get distracted):

On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 08:06 AM, Gene wrote:
1. On the task bar, move to the item you want to move with the right or left arrow keys or move the object navigator to the item you want with next and previous object commands.  The desktop commands are numpad insert numpad 4 for previous object and numpad insert numpad 6 for next object.

2. When you are on the icon, route the mouse to it with numpad insert numpad slash.

3. Lock the mouse with shift numpad slash.  .

4. Move using next or previous object commands to where you want the icon to be.

5. Route the mouse there with numpad insert numpad slash, the same routing command as before.

6. But now, don't use the unlock mouse command, which is shift numpad slash. Instead, use left click, numpad slash.

The mouse will be unlocked and the icon will be in the place you want it to be.
By the way, if your keyboard happens to have a dedicated Insert key, it does not matter if you choose to use that rather than the insert on the number pad (which is always, in my experience, the zero key when number lock is off).  A great many machines these days do not have dedicated insert keys, but some keyboards, particularly super-fancy third party keyboards, do.  I make this note only because some people have trained themselves to use the "hard insert key" and if they've got one, that's just fine if they're used to using it.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

I neither need nor want to be appeased, but apprised.  Inconvenient truth is preferable to convenient (for the liar) lies.

     ~ Brian Vogel

 
Re: Rearranging the taskbar

Brian Vogel
 

Now that I think about it, I really wonder if the NVDA documentation shouldn't be updated for clarity.  After Gene's instructions, it's clear to me that the Left Mouse Lock (SHIFT + NumPad Slash), which is a toggle, would only ever be toggled off if you had accidentally toggled it on, which I had never thought about.  The way the documentation is written, it clearly implies that the "drop part" of a keyboard drag and drop should use the Left Mouse Lock toggle command a second time, but that has never, ever worked for me.

When I think about how "the sighted equivalent" works the description, as currently written, makes sense.  But, I can assure you, the emulated version does not, in a couple of very significant ways, directly mimic the sighted equivalent.  The most significant part is that when you do a "sighted drag and drop" after you've left clicked and keep holding left click, there is a visual representation of the thing(s) being dragged as they are being dragged, and you need to have the mouse correctly positioned in the drop zone before you release the left mouse button to have the drop occur.   No such thing appears when doing this "the keyboard way."  In fact, the keyboard way for doing this has a lot more in common with a cut and paste than a drag and drop in terms of what you see, which suggests to me that the actual underlying mechanism is quite different, even if the end result is the same.

So, that means if you are doing a keyboard drag and drop, for anything, the "pick up to drag" will use the left mouse lock button to grasp the thing(s) being dragged, but you will use a straight left click (whether keyboard emulated or via a mouse button) to do the final drop.  If you use the left mouse lock key sequence, what happens is that the thing(s) are "ungrasped" and left precisely where they started out life; they are not dropped in the drop zone.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

I neither need nor want to be appeased, but apprised.  Inconvenient truth is preferable to convenient (for the liar) lies.

     ~ Brian Vogel

 
Re: Rearranging the taskbar

Brian Vogel
 

That should have been "real or keyboard emulated left click" in the introductory comment.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

I neither need nor want to be appeased, but apprised.  Inconvenient truth is preferable to convenient (for the liar) lies.

     ~ Brian Vogel

 
Re: Rearranging the taskbar

Brian Vogel
 

Gene,

First, this is brilliant.  I've played around for years, but strictly sticking to the keyboard, and it has always been the "final drop" step, trying to use the mouse unlock key sequence, that bombs out.  If all it requires is the use of a real left click, this opens a multitude of doors for keyboard drag and drop so long as the user uses left click as the drop.

I am repeating those instructions below, but with the steps numbered (which makes them easier for me to follow just because I can easily remember which step I was on last if I get distracted):

On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 08:06 AM, Gene wrote:
1. On the task bar, move to the item you want to move with the right or left arrow keys or move the object navigator to the item you want with next and previous object commands.  The desktop commands are numpad insert numpad 4 for previous object and numpad insert numpad 6 for next object.

2. When you are on the icon, route the mouse to it with numpad insert numpad slash.

3. Lock the mouse with shift numpad slash.  .

4. Move using next or previous object commands to where you want the icon to be.

5. Route the mouse there with numpad insert numpad slash, the same routing command as before.

6. But now, don't use the unlock mouse command, which is shift numpad slash. Instead, use left click, numpad slash.

The mouse will be unlocked and the icon will be in the place you want it to be.
By the way, if your keyboard happens to have a dedicated Insert key, it does not matter if you choose to use that rather than the insert on the number pad (which is always, in my experience, the zero key when number lock is off).  A great many machines these days do not have dedicated insert keys, but some keyboards, particularly super-fancy third party keyboards, do.  I make this note only because some people have trained themselves to use the "hard insert key" and if they've got one, that's just fine if they're used to using it.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

I neither need nor want to be appeased, but apprised.  Inconvenient truth is preferable to convenient (for the liar) lies.

     ~ Brian Vogel

 
enhanse phonetic reading addon for Bangla character

farhan israk
 

I am using nvda 2021.3.1 and the latest enhance phonetic reading addon. If I read English characters, I can easily read character information with phonetic information. I mean a for alfa. However, I do not get the same result if I read Bangla characters. How can I fix it?
Re: Rearranging the taskbar

Rowen Cary
 

Thanks Gene, this works.

On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 09:11 PM, Gene wrote:

I just tried this on my Windows 10 machine and it works.

Gene

On 2/7/2022 7:06 AM, Gene via groups.io wrote: > I finally figured out how to use drag and drop with NVDA to change the > order of task bar icons.  I haven't tested with other screen-readers > so I don't know if NVDA is doing something incorrectly or if this is a > general problem.  I was playing with my Windows  7 machine and I > haven't tried this on my Windows 10 machine yet but it will probably > work. > > > I noticed that the position of an item did appear to change when I > moved it using the mouse lock but when I gave the mouse unlock > command, the icon was still in its original position.  So I decided to > try other things and not just issue the documented unlock command. > > Do everything as you did before but when you get to where you would > issue the mouse unlock command, don't do so.  Instead, left click.  > The mouse will unlock, though this won't be announced and the icon > will be where you want it to be. > > > For those unfamiliar with the entire procedure, I'll give it here. > > > On the task bar, move to the item you want to move with the right or > left arrow keys or move the object navigator to the item you want with > next and previous object commands.  The desktop commands are numpad > insert numpad 4 for previous object and numpad insert numpad 6 for > next object. > > When you are on the icon, route the mouse to it with numpad insert > numpad slash. > > Lock the mouse with shift numpad slash.  . > > Move using next or previous object commands to where you want the icon > to be. > > Route the mouse there with numpad insert numpad slash, the same > routing command as before. > > But now, don't use the unlock mouse command, which is shift numpad slash. > > Instead, left click, numpad slash. > > the mouse will be unlocked and the icon will be in the place you want > it to be. > > > Gene > > On 2/7/2022 6:35 AM, Maria S wrote: > >> Thank you so much Michael. That did the trick. >> >> Maria >>> On Feb 6, 2022, at 10:37 PM, Michael Micallef at FITA >>> michael.micallef@... wrote: >>> >>> Suppose you need to use the alt+shift+right or left arrows. When >>> you open the taskbar. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io nvda@nvda.groups.io On Behalf Of Maria S >>> via groups.io >>> Sent: Monday, 07 February 2022 03:22 >>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io >>> Subject: [nvda] Rearranging the taskbar >>> >>> CAUTION: This email originated from OUTSIDE the Government Email >>> Infrastructure. DO NOT CLICK LINKS or OPEN attachments unless you >>> recognise the sender and know the content is safe. >>> >>> >>> Hi everyone. Does anyone know if a method has been developed to >>> rearrange the icons on your taskbar without having to unpin and >>> repin them? >>> >>> Thanks, Maria >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > >
Re: Problem with Windows calculator

Joseph Lee
 

Hi,

I see. Are you talking about NVDA not announcing things when you type expressions in Calculator? If yes, you must enable speak typed characters.

Cheers,

Joseph
Re: Rearranging the taskbar

Gene
 

I just tried this on my Windows 10 machine and it works.


Gene

On 2/7/2022 7:06 AM, Gene via groups.io wrote:
I finally figured out how to use drag and drop with NVDA to change the order of task bar icons.  I haven't tested with other screen-readers so I don't know if NVDA is doing something incorrectly or if this is a general problem.  I was playing with my Windows  7 machine and I haven't tried this on my Windows 10 machine yet but it will probably work.


I noticed that the position of an item did appear to change when I moved it using the mouse lock but when I gave the mouse unlock command, the icon was still in its original position.  So I decided to try other things and not just issue the documented unlock command.

Do everything as you did before but when you get to where you would issue the mouse unlock command, don't do so.  Instead, left click.  The mouse will unlock, though this won't be announced and the icon will be where you want it to be.


For those unfamiliar with the entire procedure, I'll give it here.


On the task bar, move to the item you want to move with the right or left arrow keys or move the object navigator to the item you want with next and previous object commands.  The desktop commands are numpad insert numpad 4 for previous object and numpad insert numpad 6 for next object.

When you are on the icon, route the mouse to it with numpad insert numpad slash.

Lock the mouse with shift numpad slash.  .

Move using next or previous object commands to where you want the icon to be.

Route the mouse there with numpad insert numpad slash, the same routing command as before.

But now, don't use the unlock mouse command, which is shift numpad slash.

Instead, left click, numpad slash.

the mouse will be unlocked and the icon will be in the place you want it to be.


Gene

On 2/7/2022 6:35 AM, Maria S wrote:

Thank you so much Michael. That did the trick.

Maria
On Feb 6, 2022, at 10:37 PM, Michael Micallef at FITA <michael.micallef@...> wrote:

Suppose you need to use the alt+shift+right or left arrows. When you open the taskbar.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Maria S via groups.io
Sent: Monday, 07 February 2022 03:22
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Rearranging the taskbar

CAUTION: This email originated from OUTSIDE the Government Email Infrastructure. DO NOT CLICK LINKS or OPEN attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.


Hi everyone. Does anyone know if a method has been developed to rearrange the icons on your taskbar without having to unpin and repin them?

Thanks, Maria
Re: Rearranging the taskbar

Gene
 

I finally figured out how to use drag and drop with NVDA to change the order of task bar icons.  I haven't tested with other screen-readers so I don't know if NVDA is doing something incorrectly or if this is a general problem.  I was playing with my Windows  7 machine and I haven't tried this on my Windows 10 machine yet but it will probably work.


I noticed that the position of an item did appear to change when I moved it using the mouse lock but when I gave the mouse unlock command, the icon was still in its original position.  So I decided to try other things and not just issue the documented unlock command.

Do everything as you did before but when you get to where you would issue the mouse unlock command, don't do so.  Instead, left click.  The mouse will unlock, though this won't be announced and the icon will be where you want it to be.


For those unfamiliar with the entire procedure, I'll give it here.


On the task bar, move to the item you want to move with the right or left arrow keys or move the object navigator to the item you want with next and previous object commands.  The desktop commands are numpad insert numpad 4 for previous object and numpad insert numpad 6 for next object.

When you are on the icon, route the mouse to it with numpad insert numpad slash.

Lock the mouse with shift numpad slash.  .

Move using next or previous object commands to where you want the icon to be.

Route the mouse there with numpad insert numpad slash, the same routing command as before.

But now, don't use the unlock mouse command, which is shift numpad slash.

Instead, left click, numpad slash.

the mouse will be unlocked and the icon will be in the place you want it to be.


Gene

On 2/7/2022 6:35 AM, Maria S wrote:

Thank you so much Michael. That did the trick.

Maria
On Feb 6, 2022, at 10:37 PM, Michael Micallef at FITA <michael.micallef@...> wrote:

Suppose you need to use the alt+shift+right or left arrows. When you open the taskbar.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Maria S via groups.io
Sent: Monday, 07 February 2022 03:22
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Rearranging the taskbar

CAUTION: This email originated from OUTSIDE the Government Email Infrastructure. DO NOT CLICK LINKS or OPEN attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.


Hi everyone. Does anyone know if a method has been developed to rearrange the icons on your taskbar without having to unpin and repin them?

Thanks, Maria
Re: Rearranging the taskbar

Maria S
 

Thank you so much Michael. That did the trick.

Maria

On Feb 6, 2022, at 10:37 PM, Michael Micallef at FITA <michael.micallef@...> wrote:

Suppose you need to use the alt+shift+right or left arrows. When you open the taskbar.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Maria S via groups.io
Sent: Monday, 07 February 2022 03:22
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Rearranging the taskbar

CAUTION: This email originated from OUTSIDE the Government Email Infrastructure. DO NOT CLICK LINKS or OPEN attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.


Hi everyone. Does anyone know if a method has been developed to rearrange the icons on your taskbar without having to unpin and repin them?

Thanks, Maria
Re: New Video: How to Control your mouse with NVDA without ever touching it

Christian Schoepplein
 

Am 05.02.2022 um 19:51 schrieb Angelo Sonnesso:
Nice job on this video.
I am a new subscriber.
+1 ;-). I am also a subscriber now ;-).

Keep on creating this very cool tutorials, they are great!

Kind regards from Munich,

Schoepp
Re: Problem with Windows calculator

Marco Oros
 

Version is 21H2.


Dňa 7. 2. 2022 o 1:58 Joseph Lee napísal(a):

Hi,

That's the latest version for Windows 10 at the moment. Which version of Windows 10 and Windows App Essentials add-on do you have?

Cheers,

Joseph
Re: Rearranging the taskbar

Michael Micallef at FITA
 

Suppose you need to use the alt+shift+right or left arrows. When you open the taskbar.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Maria S via groups.io
Sent: Monday, 07 February 2022 03:22
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Rearranging the taskbar

CAUTION: This email originated from OUTSIDE the Government Email Infrastructure. DO NOT CLICK LINKS or OPEN attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.


Hi everyone. Does anyone know if a method has been developed to rearrange the icons on your taskbar without having to unpin and repin them?

Thanks, Maria
Re: NVDA mispronounces certain words wrongly

Gene
 

If you are working with something that may be a part of various words, use the case sensitive setting and the whole word or anywhere setting to limit or expand what is acted on.  If you want capital X to be spoken as ten because it may be a Roman numeral, you will have xylophone pronounced as something like tenylophone using the default dictionary entry settings.  Using the whole word only setting would mean that capital X would have to be by itself to be pronounced 10.  You could further limit errors by making the entry case sensitive.


Gene

On 2/6/2022 9:13 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Sun, Feb 6, 2022 at 09:55 PM, Sim Kah Yong wrote:
The weird thing is that I have created some dictionary entries to correct the mis-pronunciation, but to no avail as well. But now, I delete the entries, and what do you know, the problem is GONE!
-
No snarkiness is intended, but this is not a surprise.  Even if you are not using regular expression matching, the NVDA dictionary is traversed from the first entry to the last, and if a replacement is made, that replacement is then run against the remaining entries.  And if the patterns are short, and the ordering is "not just perfect" you can get some really, really unexpected results.

See the archive message   for a discussion of this, and a contrived example that shows it, vividly.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

I neither need nor want to be appeased, but apprised.  Inconvenient truth is preferable to convenient (for the liar) lies.

     ~ Brian Vogel

 
Re: NVDA mispronounces certain words wrongly

Brian Vogel
 

On Sun, Feb 6, 2022 at 09:55 PM, Sim Kah Yong wrote:
The weird thing is that I have created some dictionary entries to correct the mis-pronunciation, but to no avail as well. But now, I delete the entries, and what do you know, the problem is GONE!
-
No snarkiness is intended, but this is not a surprise.  Even if you are not using regular expression matching, the NVDA dictionary is traversed from the first entry to the last, and if a replacement is made, that replacement is then run against the remaining entries.  And if the patterns are short, and the ordering is "not just perfect" you can get some really, really unexpected results.

See the archive message   for a discussion of this, and a contrived example that shows it, vividly.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

I neither need nor want to be appeased, but apprised.  Inconvenient truth is preferable to convenient (for the liar) lies.

     ~ Brian Vogel

 
Re: NVDA mispronounces certain words wrongly

Sim Kah Yong
 

Hi, thanks for the suggestions. The weird thing is that I have created some dictionary entries to correct the mis-pronunciation, but to no avail as well. But now, I delete the entries, and what do you know, the problem is GONE!

On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 10:41 AM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
On Sun, Feb 6, 2022 at 09:29 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Could you have any dictionary entries? 
-
This was my first suspicion as well, given the description.  It's kinda "the flip side" of the more typical situations/complaints.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

I neither need nor want to be appeased, but apprised.  Inconvenient truth is preferable to convenient (for the liar) lies.

     ~ Brian Vogel

 
Re: NVDA mispronounces certain words wrongly

Brian Vogel
 

On Sun, Feb 6, 2022 at 09:29 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Could you have any dictionary entries? 
-
This was my first suspicion as well, given the description.  It's kinda "the flip side" of the more typical situations/complaints.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

I neither need nor want to be appeased, but apprised.  Inconvenient truth is preferable to convenient (for the liar) lies.

     ~ Brian Vogel

 
Re: Rearranging the taskbar

Brian Vogel
 

That depends on the version of Windows.  I don't think it's possible under Windows 10, other than by drag and drop (which, since it is constrained in this case to left/right - you can't drag off the taskbar, you can use the mouse with a bit of trial and error).

Windows 11 has a new method that I have not as yet played with where I believe there's a way to move them via the keyboard or settings. 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

I neither need nor want to be appeased, but apprised.  Inconvenient truth is preferable to convenient (for the liar) lies.

     ~ Brian Vogel

 
Re: NVDA mispronounces certain words wrongly

Quentin Christensen
 

Could you have any dictionary entries?  See our blog post on editing the dictionaries last year for the steps: https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-16th-april-2021/#Dictionaries  If Narrator is not doing it and yet NVDA is using the OneCore synth and same voice and language settings, then that maybe the culprit.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 1:11 PM Sim Kah Yong <simkahyong@...> wrote:
Hi all, I have a weird problem with NVDA pronunciation. My company just upgraded my laptop to a HP EliteBook x360 830 G7 Notebook PC.
Using Windows 10 version 21H1 (OS Build 19043.1466), NVDA 2021.31.
Examples of words that are mispronounced are:
Elaine pronounced as l n i n e
Training pronounced as t r a an ing
Email pronounced as m a i l

As you can tell, all of the words have "AI" as a common denominator.
I have tried the following without any success:
`1.  Run NVDA with no add-ons.
2.  Tried all the voices and TTS that I have.
3.  Com registration fixing tool - I have no admin right to run it.
4.  Tried every permutation of speech settings
5. Shut down computer to restart.

both JAWS and Narrator do not have this problem. What else can I try please? Any help will be appreciated.  Thanks.




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager
5721 - 5740 of 98336