Date   

Re: Setting up the Humanware NLS EReader via Bluetooth for use with NVDA - Assistance please?

Clarissa Mitchell
 

Hi. I have the Zoomax E-reader, and I tried to explore this. The User
Guide says it should be able to work as a display with NVDA, and it
tells you how to connect to a Mac via Bluetooth, as well as iOS and
Android devices. There's a section on connecting to a computer via
USB, but I didn't find anywhere that told how to connect to a Windows
PC via Bluetooth, or how to use it with NVDA. When I went into
Settings on the device, then Bluetooth mode, all that showed up on the
display was BT and nothing else. I couldn't find any way to choose any
Bluetooth devices, and I was not notified that it was searching for
any devices. And I couldn't get out of it except by turning off the
E-reader. No keypresses were acknowledged.

Now I'm curious. Has anyone else been successful at connecting one of
these E-readers to NVDA via Bluetooth?

On 3/20/22, Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...> wrote:
Hey everyone. I sure hope everyone is having a lovely day out there!

I have a question regarding NVDA version 2021.3.4 in combination with a
bluetooth braille display; I'm not the most familiar with this, as I
have always connected in the past over USB.

I'm using the Humanware NLS EReader device as my display, and my
ultimate goal is to connect it via bluetooth to my Windows 10 machine.

Can someone possibly give me the steps both in NVDA as well as in the
EReader to get this display connected up wirelessly over bluetooth so I
may use it in conjunction with NVDA?

Your help is very graciously appreciated.

Thanks, and god bless.

Chris.







locked Re: small favor

 

On Sun, Mar 20, 2022 at 01:07 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
No, that's why I asked for people to contact me offlist.
-
For which I thank you, immensely.  This topic will be locked after this message just to prevent it from continuing on-group.

That being said, you really should consider joining the Chat Subgroup and asking there.  Most of the traffic, which is light to begin with, from the Chat Subgroup is about the specifics of other programs where NVDA itself is incidental.

NVDA Chat Subgroup Archive:  https://nvda.groups.io/g/chat/topics

NVDA Chat Subgroup Addresses

To join:  chat+subscribe@nvda.groups.io

To post:  chat@nvda.groups.io

To unsubscribe:  chat+unsubscribe@nvda.groups.io

To receive a message containing the group description, and a list of these commands:  chat+help@nvda.groups.io

To stop receiving messages via email (you may still read messages on the Web):  chat+nomail@nvda.groups.io

This can also be used to put a vacation stop on group messages, then use one of the addresses below to resume delivery in the format of your choice.

To receive each group messages individually:  chat+single@nvda.groups.io

This is the default delivery unless you send a message to one of the addresses that follows.

To receive group messages in an HTML formatted digest:  chat+fulldigest@nvda.groups.io

To receive group messages in a plain text digest:  chat+digest@nvda.groups.io

To receive a daily summary instead of individual messages:  chat+summary@nvda.groups.io

To receive only special messages:  chat+special@nvda.groups.io

To contact the group owner(s):  chat+owner@nvda.groups.io
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Constantly insisting on “my rights” with no consideration of “my responsibilities” isn’t “freedom” — it’s adolescence.
     ~ Commenter, Evangelos, in comments for
         America 2022: Where Everyone Has Rights and No One Has Responsibilities,
        New York Times, February 8, 2022

 


Setting up the Humanware NLS EReader via Bluetooth for use with NVDA - Assistance please?

Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...>
 

Hey everyone. I sure hope everyone is having a lovely day out there!

I have a question regarding NVDA version 2021.3.4 in combination with a bluetooth braille display; I'm not the most familiar with this, as I have always connected in the past over USB.

I'm using the Humanware NLS EReader device as my display, and my ultimate goal is to connect it via bluetooth to my Windows 10 machine.

Can someone possibly give me the steps both in NVDA as well as in the EReader to get this display connected up wirelessly over bluetooth so I may use it in conjunction with NVDA?

Your help is very graciously appreciated.

Thanks, and god bless.

Chris.


locked Re: small favor

Bob Cavanaugh
 

No, that's why I asked for people to contact me offlist. It has to do
with creating playlists in a program I've referenced on this list
before, Zara Radio.

On 3/20/22, Russell James <4rjames@...> wrote:
If you could share a little more information about your project you might
get better responses

Is your project specific to nvda?

Russ

On Sun, Mar 20, 2022, 12:22 AM Bob Cavanaugh <cavbob1993@...> wrote:

Hi all,
Could a developer contact me offlist please? I have a small project
I'd like to get done, but have no idea how to go about it myself.
Bob










Re: Queued updates

 

Hi,

I'm approaching this question from both software engineering and human communication perspectives (I must confess, if I was to answer this question say, five years ago, I would not have given much thought into the communication aspect of pull requests):

Pull requests are communicative in nature. That is, they involve communication between the host project, project members, pull request authors, users, and passersby/observers/other projects and other external stakeholders. We often think of pull requests as someone posting new features, changes, and bug fixes in the form of code changes. But when we think about the fact that pull requests involve communication, it changes the picture as it introduces concepts such as culture, persuasion, group dynamics, reputation, and ethics.

When searching Google for terms such as "pull requests", "pull request best practices" or similar terms, some of the top results will advise readers to use collaborative approach to pull requests. At least that's a good starting point, but what's often not mentioned is understanding the project culture. In other words, it isn't advisable to submit a pull request that fixes a security issue without first understanding how an open-source project that you are submitting a pull request to operates.

For example, suppose you come across a feature request that you can implement on the spot (as in it will take you hours to implement and test changes since you know what to change in project source code), and this is your first ever contribution to this particular project. After posting your pull request, project members, users, and outside stakeholders will view your changes and provide feedback. If the project itself is known to be friendly toward newcomers (as in feedback is constructivc and members show empathy and genuine concern), then you may feel welcomed to submit changes in the future. On the other hand, if the porject is known to be skeptical of newcomers, then you may need to change your strategy a bit by trying to immerse yourself more into the project culture and build trust before submitting future changes. In the worst case, if the project is okay but its members are not, then you might think about showcasing your talent somewhere else.

The above example highlights an important aspect of pull requests: the success of a pull request depends not merely on code quality, but also on the attitude of project members and the project culture as a whole. Both attitude and culture matter because:

  1. Attitude: software projects are organized by humans from diverse backgrounds, attitudes, and skills. Take NVDA, for example - although the stewards of NVDA screen reader project is NV Access, when you look at Git commit log and contributors list, far more contributions were made by third parties. As humans, developers have differing skill sets, attitudes, and background - some might be kind toward other contributors, while others might not (no, I don't want to single out anyone here). To some degree, member attitude is reflected in pull request feedback, and that can have an impact on how pull request authors feel about the project.
  2. Project culture: as software projects grow, they will create and specify values, norms, and rules for its members, including current and would-be pull request authors. These can include coding standards, ideas about rigor, pull request policies, among others. Therefore, it is normal for pull requests by newcomers to be scrutinized more or not acted upon on a timely manner partly because of the tendency for members to look at changes from in-group members unless the newcomer somehow finds a way to persuade project leaders about the importance of their work (this is why I advise newcomers to build trust and credibility with project members before submitting pull requests).

While I view that member attitude is important, I tend to view culture as a more important factor. Software projects are subcultures under the general culture of software development, and members of the latter culture set expectations about contributions, rigor, code quality, and related concepts. From the viewpoint of someone submitting and reviewing pull requests, it can be stated like this:

  1. Viewpoint of the submitter: you are effectively immersing yourself in a culture that might be different than your own. I'm not talking just about cultures arising from languages, nationalities, class, and other identity markers. Software projects are cultures of their own, and your idea of software rigor and code quality may not be the same as a project's idea of rigor and quality. For this reason, it is important to take time to understand how a project operates before suddenly telling people that you have code changes to be included in the main branch of a given software (tasks such as reading Git log, communicating with users and developers, and reviewing contributino documents can help you understand what is going on).
  2. Viewpoint of a reviewer and project member: you are effectively an ambassador of the project culture you are a part of. As an in-group member, you know how the project operates and understands project expectations. Therefore, when meeting new pull request writers, it is your responsibility to help them get acquainted with norms, values, and rules of the project in a way that is acceptable to newcomers.

Does this mean NVDA is a good software project to send pull requests to? Depends. While NV Access and third-party contributors have set standards such as pull request templates (or rather, NV Access has learned a thing or two from other projects), there could be improvements. This prompts a follow-up question: am I a good and reputable member of NVDA project culture? I'll let you decide (despite Greek philosopher Socrates telling humanity to know yourself, I still have to discover other things about myself).

You might be wondering, why didn't I answer anything about collaboration tools. Tools such as linters and collaborative IDE's (integrated development environments) are important, but I wanted to emphasize and get people to think critically about my opening statement: pull requests are communicative in nature. I know that I took you on a long road to arrive at this point, but when you think about it carefully, you will realize that the best collaborative tool is understanding where others are coming from.

I don't expect all new pull request writers to read my "chapter" above from cover to cover. But one key takeaway is this: treat developers as fellow humans first before telling them about your next code change idea. In other words, understand that people come from different backgrounds. It is not code changes that unites a software project, but having the ability and willingness to accept and build trust with others.

Hope this answers and clarifies hundreds of questions.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: Clipspeak add-on for NVDA

Rui Fontes
 

There are various add-ons to do that...

Clipspeak, fakeClipboard, NVDAExtensionGlobalPlugin, clipContentsDesigner and maybe others...


Rui Fontes


Às 07:18 de 20/03/2022, Lenron escreveu:

cut copy and paste speak would be nice to have, but at this point I
have just gotten use to the fact that when I am using NVDA it just
won't be there and I just need to double check sometimes to make sure
I got what I wanted.

On 3/18/22, Rui Fontes <rui.fontes@...> wrote:
Hello!


As I said, except if specified in the add-on code, any add-on works in
Windows 7, 8, 10 or 11...

So, the add-on I am modifying, works in all flavours of Windows
supported by NVDA version in use.


Best regards,

Rui Fontes
NVDA portuguese team



Às 18:46 de 18/03/2022, Dave Grossoehme escreveu:
Good Afternoon:  Is this running in Windows 10 or in Windows 10 and 11?

Dave


On 3/17/2022 9:10 AM, Rui Fontes wrote:
Hello!


First, a gentle request...

Do not use idiomatic expressions, since many readers have not english
as his primary language...


Regarding the copy/paste announcement, Jaws and System Access have it...

Regarding key commands, Narrator have a nice implementation...


Rui Fontes


Às 23:05 de 16/03/2022, Brian Vogel escreveu:
On Wed, Mar 16, 2022 at 06:59 PM, Rui Fontes wrote:

Many people, as myself, have quit asking this feature because NV
Access is tottally against it...

-
I am not naïve, and I understand where you're coming from, but you
and others like you do need to consider that "the squeaky wheel gets
the grease" may apply in situations like this.

I can't say that you have done this, but many "quit squeaking" far,
far, far to early on.

For virtually any software, a large and long enough outcry from the
user community has a tendency to effect change.

All of the above having been said, I also understand that, after a
certain point, the desire to keep on fighting just dies out.

It's funny, but as someone who is sighted, and who has worked with
screen reader users for some time, I never even think about having
cut/copy/paste speak what's being cut, copied, or pasted, as that
should have been a part of the selection process.  Mind you,
confirmation that a cut/copy/paste command has been issued is handy,
and at the moment I can't remember which screen reader(s) do this
confirmation announcement by default.
--

Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

/Constantly insisting on “my rights” with no consideration of “my
responsibilities” isn’t “freedom” — it’s adolescence.
/     ~ Commenter, *Evangelos*, in comments for
/America 2022: Where Everyone Has Rights and No One Has
Responsibilities
<https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/08/opinion/spotify-joe-rogan-covid-free-speech.html>/,
/        New York Times/, February 8, 2022




locked Re: small favor

Russell James
 

If you could share a little more information about your project you might get better responses

Is your project specific to nvda?

Russ


On Sun, Mar 20, 2022, 12:22 AM Bob Cavanaugh <cavbob1993@...> wrote:
Hi all,
Could a developer contact me offlist please? I have a small project
I'd like to get done, but have no idea how to go about it myself.
Bob






Re: Queued updates

Russell James
 

Hi Joseph

Thanks for sharing your view of that process

I have often wondered what that would be like in an open source project like nvda

It sounds like software quality assurance on the fly while you're reviewing incoming changes from multiple developers all having different styles and approaches

Do you have any tools that you can use during this process to scan and review the code for conventions or static analysis and security?

I can't help wonder, is the pull request process usually interactive between the reviewer and the author?

Then of course is the availability of the reviewer in the author to do things in a timely manner..

Sounds challenging! :-)

Russ


On Sun, Mar 20, 2022, 4:19 AM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,

Reviewing queued add-ons is a collaborative process that involves:

  • Ad-on author: the author is responsible for documenting changes and making sure the download link is working properly.
  • Reviewer: the reviewer is reponsible for checking to make sure the download link is working and manifest information is consistent with what the add-on author has provided and NV Access's add-on release policy.
  • NV Access: to make sure the add-on info is consistent and merging the data for an add-on that was approved by a reviewer.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: Can't Upgrade While Using RDP

Russell James
 

Hi Jacob

Thank you for your follow-up message

You were on my mind while I was doing that and using narrator as my backup screen reader the problem was I could not find a way to install nvdas upgrade without running in vda..

I would be surprised if there's not a way to do that I just don't know how and I was wondering if you have any tips or tricks you can share?

Narrator does not seem to be as user-friendly as nvda but it certainly was possible for me to navigate many things using it

Thanks for your help!

Russ


On Sun, Mar 20, 2022, 7:54 AM Jacob Kruger <jacob@...> wrote:

Russell, this is, again, why I use narrator as a form of backup - same ctrl+windows+enter keystroke fires it up on remote desktop?


Jacob Kruger
Skype: BlindZA
"...resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."
On 2022-03-18 09:52 PM, Russell James wrote:
Following up on my original message here...

I was not only unable to do the NVDA upgrade while using RDP
When I tried again, with a check for updates, it indicated there were none available...
Then I lost speech all together...
I could not get NVDA to restart...

I'm restarting that remote computer and hoping for the best

Russ

On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 9:02 AM Russell James via groups.io <4rjames=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hi Luke

I don't ever recall a time that Microsoft remote desktop was not accessible
I've never used the nvda remote feature I've always just run an installed copy of nvda on the remote computer

Microsoft remote desktop has always supported the audio coming through from the remote therefore making screen readers usable on the remote computer

I also used to be able to do nvda updates on the remote computer using it this way but that is no longer possible

Thank you Jacob when I get a chance I'll try that out maybe if I'm not running in vda on the remote computer I can do the upgrade :-)

Russ


On Fri, Mar 18, 2022, 2:26 AM Jacob Kruger <jacob@...> wrote:

Christopher, when I use the disconnect sub-menu item under windows 10's power user menu - windows key + X, it never has any issues with disconnecting connection - only real issue have had as such is need to make sure remember to turn off any audio-ducking modes on client machine, before connect to remote machine, or else it might, at times, come across a bit soft?


And, this is all under windows 10 x64, on both ends of connection.


Jacob Kruger
+2782 413 4791
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."
On 2022-03-18 01:14 AM, Christopher Duffley wrote:
If you're referring to Microsoft Remote Desktop, yes, about 99% of it or so is very accessible with NVDA! The best way to disconnect a machine that's on an NVDARemote connection, however, is to use a Disconnect RDP.bat file that I can send a link to for the Machine being controlled. This is because if you don't use this file disconnect almost every other way, the NVDARemote connection will freeze in terms of sending commands to the machine.

Christopher Duffley
Host of Mission Possible Podcast: http://www.missionpossiblepodcast.com
Cell: +1 (603) 851-6971

12 Pro Max

On Mar 17, 2022, at 19:03, Luke Davis <luke@...> wrote:

Russell James wrote:

I used to be able to upgrade NVDA while using RDP.

Perhaps I am behind the times, but my understanding was that RDP was not accessible--That it was, in fact, entirely graphical.
Have I missed an important change?

If not, and it is still entirely inaccessible, how did you used to do this?

Luke






Re: Task Bar - Running Applications - After upgrade 2021.3.4

George McCoy
 

Not with MS 1-core voices.


George

On 3/18/2022 4:50 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Quentin,

Does doing something really simple, like sticking a 'V' in front, kill off the "let me try to read this as a date" thing?  E.g., NVDA v2021.3.4
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Constantly insisting on “my rights” with no consideration of “my responsibilities” isn’t “freedom” — it’s adolescence.
     ~ Commenter, Evangelos, in comments for
         America 2022: Where Everyone Has Rights and No One Has Responsibilities,
        New York Times, February 8, 2022

 


Re: Can't Upgrade While Using RDP

Jacob Kruger
 

Russell, this is, again, why I use narrator as a form of backup - same ctrl+windows+enter keystroke fires it up on remote desktop?


Jacob Kruger
Skype: BlindZA
"...resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."
On 2022-03-18 09:52 PM, Russell James wrote:

Following up on my original message here...

I was not only unable to do the NVDA upgrade while using RDP
When I tried again, with a check for updates, it indicated there were none available...
Then I lost speech all together...
I could not get NVDA to restart...

I'm restarting that remote computer and hoping for the best

Russ

On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 9:02 AM Russell James via groups.io <4rjames=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hi Luke

I don't ever recall a time that Microsoft remote desktop was not accessible
I've never used the nvda remote feature I've always just run an installed copy of nvda on the remote computer

Microsoft remote desktop has always supported the audio coming through from the remote therefore making screen readers usable on the remote computer

I also used to be able to do nvda updates on the remote computer using it this way but that is no longer possible

Thank you Jacob when I get a chance I'll try that out maybe if I'm not running in vda on the remote computer I can do the upgrade :-)

Russ


On Fri, Mar 18, 2022, 2:26 AM Jacob Kruger <jacob@...> wrote:

Christopher, when I use the disconnect sub-menu item under windows 10's power user menu - windows key + X, it never has any issues with disconnecting connection - only real issue have had as such is need to make sure remember to turn off any audio-ducking modes on client machine, before connect to remote machine, or else it might, at times, come across a bit soft?


And, this is all under windows 10 x64, on both ends of connection.


Jacob Kruger
+2782 413 4791
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."
On 2022-03-18 01:14 AM, Christopher Duffley wrote:
If you're referring to Microsoft Remote Desktop, yes, about 99% of it or so is very accessible with NVDA! The best way to disconnect a machine that's on an NVDARemote connection, however, is to use a Disconnect RDP.bat file that I can send a link to for the Machine being controlled. This is because if you don't use this file disconnect almost every other way, the NVDARemote connection will freeze in terms of sending commands to the machine.

Christopher Duffley
Host of Mission Possible Podcast: http://www.missionpossiblepodcast.com
Cell: +1 (603) 851-6971

12 Pro Max

On Mar 17, 2022, at 19:03, Luke Davis <luke@...> wrote:

Russell James wrote:

I used to be able to upgrade NVDA while using RDP.

Perhaps I am behind the times, but my understanding was that RDP was not accessible--That it was, in fact, entirely graphical.
Have I missed an important change?

If not, and it is still entirely inaccessible, how did you used to do this?

Luke






Re: Clipspeak add-on for NVDA

Robert Doc Wright godfearer
 

Why aren't you using this addon "NVDAExtensionGlobalPlugin-9.8.1.nvda-addon"? It has all the clip speak features.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lenron" <lenron93@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2022 1:18 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Clipspeak add-on for NVDA


cut copy and paste speak would be nice to have, but at this point I
have just gotten use to the fact that when I am using NVDA it just
won't be there and I just need to double check sometimes to make sure
I got what I wanted.

On 3/18/22, Rui Fontes <rui.fontes@...> wrote:
Hello!


As I said, except if specified in the add-on code, any add-on works in
Windows 7, 8, 10 or 11...

So, the add-on I am modifying, works in all flavours of Windows
supported by NVDA version in use.


Best regards,

Rui Fontes
NVDA portuguese team



Às 18:46 de 18/03/2022, Dave Grossoehme escreveu:

Good Afternoon: Is this running in Windows 10 or in Windows 10 and 11?

Dave


On 3/17/2022 9:10 AM, Rui Fontes wrote:

Hello!


First, a gentle request...

Do not use idiomatic expressions, since many readers have not english
as his primary language...


Regarding the copy/paste announcement, Jaws and System Access have it...

Regarding key commands, Narrator have a nice implementation...


Rui Fontes


Às 23:05 de 16/03/2022, Brian Vogel escreveu:
On Wed, Mar 16, 2022 at 06:59 PM, Rui Fontes wrote:

Many people, as myself, have quit asking this feature because NV
Access is tottally against it...

-
I am not naïve, and I understand where you're coming from, but you
and others like you do need to consider that "the squeaky wheel gets
the grease" may apply in situations like this.

I can't say that you have done this, but many "quit squeaking" far,
far, far to early on.

For virtually any software, a large and long enough outcry from the
user community has a tendency to effect change.

All of the above having been said, I also understand that, after a
certain point, the desire to keep on fighting just dies out.

It's funny, but as someone who is sighted, and who has worked with
screen reader users for some time, I never even think about having
cut/copy/paste speak what's being cut, copied, or pasted, as that
should have been a part of the selection process. Mind you,
confirmation that a cut/copy/paste command has been issued is handy,
and at the moment I can't remember which screen reader(s) do this
confirmation announcement by default.
--

Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

/Constantly insisting on “my rights” with no consideration of “my
responsibilities” isn’t “freedom” — it’s adolescence.
/ ~ Commenter, *Evangelos*, in comments for
/America 2022: Where Everyone Has Rights and No One Has
Responsibilities
<https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/08/opinion/spotify-joe-rogan-covid-free-speech.html>/,
/ New York Times/, February 8, 2022





--
Lenron Brown
Main cell 985-714-8446
Cell: 985-271-2832
Skype: ron.brown762


Re: Queued updates

 

Hi,

Reviewing queued add-ons is a collaborative process that involves:

  • Ad-on author: the author is responsible for documenting changes and making sure the download link is working properly.
  • Reviewer: the reviewer is reponsible for checking to make sure the download link is working and manifest information is consistent with what the add-on author has provided and NV Access's add-on release policy.
  • NV Access: to make sure the add-on info is consistent and merging the data for an add-on that was approved by a reviewer.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: Clipspeak add-on for NVDA

Lenron
 

cut copy and paste speak would be nice to have, but at this point I
have just gotten use to the fact that when I am using NVDA it just
won't be there and I just need to double check sometimes to make sure
I got what I wanted.

On 3/18/22, Rui Fontes <rui.fontes@...> wrote:
Hello!


As I said, except if specified in the add-on code, any add-on works in
Windows 7, 8, 10 or 11...

So, the add-on I am modifying, works in all flavours of Windows
supported by NVDA version in use.


Best regards,

Rui Fontes
NVDA portuguese team



Às 18:46 de 18/03/2022, Dave Grossoehme escreveu:

Good Afternoon:  Is this running in Windows 10 or in Windows 10 and 11?

Dave


On 3/17/2022 9:10 AM, Rui Fontes wrote:

Hello!


First, a gentle request...

Do not use idiomatic expressions, since many readers have not english
as his primary language...


Regarding the copy/paste announcement, Jaws and System Access have it...

Regarding key commands, Narrator have a nice implementation...


Rui Fontes


Às 23:05 de 16/03/2022, Brian Vogel escreveu:
On Wed, Mar 16, 2022 at 06:59 PM, Rui Fontes wrote:

Many people, as myself, have quit asking this feature because NV
Access is tottally against it...

-
I am not naïve, and I understand where you're coming from, but you
and others like you do need to consider that "the squeaky wheel gets
the grease" may apply in situations like this.

I can't say that you have done this, but many "quit squeaking" far,
far, far to early on.

For virtually any software, a large and long enough outcry from the
user community has a tendency to effect change.

All of the above having been said, I also understand that, after a
certain point, the desire to keep on fighting just dies out.

It's funny, but as someone who is sighted, and who has worked with
screen reader users for some time, I never even think about having
cut/copy/paste speak what's being cut, copied, or pasted, as that
should have been a part of the selection process.  Mind you,
confirmation that a cut/copy/paste command has been issued is handy,
and at the moment I can't remember which screen reader(s) do this
confirmation announcement by default.
--

Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

/Constantly insisting on “my rights” with no consideration of “my
responsibilities” isn’t “freedom” — it’s adolescence.
/     ~ Commenter, *Evangelos*, in comments for
/America 2022: Where Everyone Has Rights and No One Has
Responsibilities
<https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/08/opinion/spotify-joe-rogan-covid-free-speech.html>/,
/        New York Times/, February 8, 2022




--
Lenron Brown
Main cell 985-714-8446
Cell: 985-271-2832
Skype: ron.brown762


Re: Queued updates

 

But if the addons are reviewed, transfered, used, and are established and are in the publishing cue to go all you would have to say is ok or is there more to that.

I'm no dev though just a user maybe I think of it to simply.



On 20/03/2022 4:58 pm, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

In order to review add-ons posted on community add-on files repository, you must:

  1. Balance things: you must be willing to balance between code and human intentions.
  2. Balance things again: you must be willing to balance priorities between add-on authors, users, and NV Access.
  3. Balance things yet again: you must be willing to balance between philosophies of technological progress and backward compatibility.
  4. Balance things a fourth time: you must be willing to balance between the ideal versus reality when it comes to add-on release policy.

In all seriousness, reviewing add-ons (or for that matter, code written by someone else) require balancing and thinking about many things at once. Some of the prominent ones are:

  1. Knowledge and expertise: you may be an expert in your add-on source code but may not be so for code written by others. Sometimes you must (to use a more direct term) wrestle with code written by someone else i.e. it takes time to fully grasp what others are saying to you in a way that could be translated into code both human parties cannot read easily. Just because you feel you can read Python code like a book written in your native language does not mean you can fully grasp what's going on unless you invest some time (sometimes days) to figure out the intentions behind the code you are reading. For this reason, I usually do not advise new add-on authors to review others code unless they have proven that they can explain their own code to a new author (which can take weeks to months to practice).
  2. Understand release policies: there was a discussion on NVDA Add-ons list about unavailability of add-ons declaring themselves ready for NVDA 2022.1 changes. While some add-ons are ready (including mine), due to add-on release policy regarding new NVDA beta releases, authors are holding off on broad availability i.e. approve queued add-ons until NV Access makes an announcement about 2022.1 beta 1. While you can review add-ons and tell others that add-ons are ready for upcoming (vast) changes, others may take your notice as a confirmation rather than a definitive declaration because, again, due to add-on compatibility declaration policy from NV Access (hold off on changing last tested version flag in the manifest until beta 1 is out).

In other words, just because you are telling the community that you will review add-ons does not necessarily mean people would welcome your proposal at once. As I once wrote when talking about GitHub issues and pull requests, you must think, think, and think again carefully before telling people, "okay, I can review add-ons." People would welcome your proposal if you do have a track record of actually writing and maintaining add-ons and understands policies. But reviewing add-ons for sake of compatibility flag... That, to me is, to say it with honesty and sincerity (and bluntly), not welcome (and to use a phrase many businesses and organizations use, "thanks for your interest and applying but we hired someone already"); I'm telling you like this so you can understand reality, or to paraphrase Brian V's response, "the grass is not always greener on the other side".

Cheers,

Joseph


locked small favor

Bob Cavanaugh
 

Hi all,
Could a developer contact me offlist please? I have a small project
I'd like to get done, but have no idea how to go about it myself.
Bob


Re: Queued updates

 

Hi,

In order to review add-ons posted on community add-on files repository, you must:

  1. Balance things: you must be willing to balance between code and human intentions.
  2. Balance things again: you must be willing to balance priorities between add-on authors, users, and NV Access.
  3. Balance things yet again: you must be willing to balance between philosophies of technological progress and backward compatibility.
  4. Balance things a fourth time: you must be willing to balance between the ideal versus reality when it comes to add-on release policy.

In all seriousness, reviewing add-ons (or for that matter, code written by someone else) require balancing and thinking about many things at once. Some of the prominent ones are:

  1. Knowledge and expertise: you may be an expert in your add-on source code but may not be so for code written by others. Sometimes you must (to use a more direct term) wrestle with code written by someone else i.e. it takes time to fully grasp what others are saying to you in a way that could be translated into code both human parties cannot read easily. Just because you feel you can read Python code like a book written in your native language does not mean you can fully grasp what's going on unless you invest some time (sometimes days) to figure out the intentions behind the code you are reading. For this reason, I usually do not advise new add-on authors to review others code unless they have proven that they can explain their own code to a new author (which can take weeks to months to practice).
  2. Understand release policies: there was a discussion on NVDA Add-ons list about unavailability of add-ons declaring themselves ready for NVDA 2022.1 changes. While some add-ons are ready (including mine), due to add-on release policy regarding new NVDA beta releases, authors are holding off on broad availability i.e. approve queued add-ons until NV Access makes an announcement about 2022.1 beta 1. While you can review add-ons and tell others that add-ons are ready for upcoming (vast) changes, others may take your notice as a confirmation rather than a definitive declaration because, again, due to add-on compatibility declaration policy from NV Access (hold off on changing last tested version flag in the manifest until beta 1 is out).

In other words, just because you are telling the community that you will review add-ons does not necessarily mean people would welcome your proposal at once. As I once wrote when talking about GitHub issues and pull requests, you must think, think, and think again carefully before telling people, "okay, I can review add-ons." People would welcome your proposal if you do have a track record of actually writing and maintaining add-ons and understands policies. But reviewing add-ons for sake of compatibility flag... That, to me is, to say it with honesty and sincerity (and bluntly), not welcome (and to use a phrase many businesses and organizations use, "thanks for your interest and applying but we hired someone already"); I'm telling you like this so you can understand reality, or to paraphrase Brian V's response, "the grass is not always greener on the other side".

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: Queued updates

 

Shaun,

The fact that you could even, for a single moment, muse why a multinational company, such as Microsoft, with more employees in one building than NVAccess has in its entirety, can do things differently shows you have zero grasp of how things work in the world of software development.

That, and you can't just pull "more people" out of your posterior.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Constantly insisting on “my rights” with no consideration of “my responsibilities” isn’t “freedom” — it’s adolescence.
     ~ Commenter, Evangelos, in comments for
         America 2022: Where Everyone Has Rights and No One Has Responsibilities,
        New York Times, February 8, 2022

 


Re: Queued updates

 

Well, I do wander if maybe more people need to be approving stable updates.
What does one need to do to manually approve this stuff or whatever.
I have heaps of time and I can check daily or whenever something is
loaded, maybe I could even help once things get put over or transfer
over things to approve.
I mean once its stable and put as such then you should be able to just
put them out.
I mean how do normal software makers, etc like microsoft run
successfull updates once or so a month.

On 20/03/2022, Luke Davis <luke@...> wrote:
Shaun Everiss wrote:

Just wandered how long it takes updates put in the release cue like addons
to
appear?
As long as it takes. Literally, that's the only answer there is.

Currently, each add-on update has to be manually approved by Reef Turner,
one of
the NV Access core developers.

To my knowledge, he has never stated publicly what his schedule is for
looking
at those. Maybe Quentin has some better information, but it seems to happen

whenever Reef decides to do it. I think the average may be something like
once
per month, but it varies.
There are only so many hours in the work day, and only one person doing that
in
addition to his core development work.

That may be inconvenient for those of us who depend on add-ons (I.E. pretty
much
everyone), but that's just the way it is.

Luke






Re: Queued updates

 

On Sat, Mar 19, 2022 at 06:29 PM, Luke Davis wrote:
As long as it takes. Literally, that's the only answer there is.
-
And it's not only the answer for NVDA add-ons, either.  

The number of factors that can influence when something that's considered a release-ready piece of software is actually released are myriad.  There are also going to be certain things that are "rubber stamp" type approvals versus others that require a lot more review.

Every time someone asks a, "When will . . .?," question related to software of any sort my answer is always, "It will be released when it is released. And when that happens, you're likely to be alerted to that."
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Constantly insisting on “my rights” with no consideration of “my responsibilities” isn’t “freedom” — it’s adolescence.
     ~ Commenter, Evangelos, in comments for
         America 2022: Where Everyone Has Rights and No One Has Responsibilities,
        New York Times, February 8, 2022

 

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