Date   

Re: single quick nav shortcut

 

On Sat, Apr 9, 2022 at 01:55 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
We’ve been down this battle before.
-
Yes, we have.  And no one is saying you shouldn't use whatever you please.

That doesn't change the fact that, for most people, desktop layout is far less problematic than laptop layout can be.  And for precisely the reason that started this topic.

What I can't understand about you, Sarah, is why you can't recognize that some of your preferences are really *your* preferences, not necessarily widely applicable.  I have some quirky preferences, too, but will openly state that they probably don't fit many others very well.

Using laptop layout when you have a full keyboard available is odd, to put it mildly.  It's not wrong, but it is odd.  It's also something I wouldn't encourage anyone to do unless they were "brought up on" the laptop layout and wish to continue using it.  And if memory serves, you are one of those people, so it makes more sense in your individual case.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Scratch most feminists and underneath there is a woman who longs to be a sex object. The difference is that is not all she wants to be.

    ~ Betty Rollin


Re: single quick nav shortcut

Gene
 

But why is that any more convenient than turning browse mode off if you want to use such commands?  I suppose it may  marginally save you issuing one command now and then but you are still turning the command on or off, which is about the same as you would do with the virtual PC curssor,, off when you want to use web page commands, then on when you want to use quick navigation commands.

Gene

On 4/9/2022 12:43 PM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hi Brian,

 

Websites like Youtube use quick key shortcuts, so there is an argument for it. You can turn off the quick nav keys  without turning off browse mode. I quite like it. JAWS does it too.

 

All the best


Steve

 

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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: 09 April 2022 18:19
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] single quick nav shortcut

 

On Sat, Apr 9, 2022 at 01:09 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:

NVDA key + shift + space will toggle single letter navigation on/off,

-
Can someone explain why one would want to do this?

I'm sure it's a complete lack of situational imagination on my part, but I'm trying to conceive of one where it would be preferable to have single-letter navigation turned off in browse mode when using a web browser.
 
[Aside: I'm really coming to the conclusion that laptop layout should be avoided when possible, and I know it's not always possible, but on any laptop that has a full keyboard with numberpad, I'd be using desktop layout.]
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Scratch most feminists and underneath there is a woman who longs to be a sex object. The difference is that is not all she wants to be.

    ~ Betty Rollin



Re: single quick nav shortcut

Sarah k Alawami
 

If you do not want to go into focus mode though this is a quicker way of doing what you want let’s say on discord, youtube, what’s app, the electron apps with shortcut keys.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, April 9, 2022 10:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] single quick nav shortcut

 

        qYou can read anything with quick navigation keys on.  The movement commands and commands such as read current line, read to end, etc. are not affected.  I see no reason to be able to turn quick navigation off since it isn't on in focus mode.

Gene

On 4/9/2022 12:31 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

If you don’t want to toggle into focus mode to read something you can simply toggle off qn is how I look at it. Hope this helps.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, April 9, 2022 10:19 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] single quick nav shortcut

 

On Sat, Apr 9, 2022 at 01:09 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:

NVDA key + shift + space will toggle single letter navigation on/off,

-
Can someone explain why one would want to do this?

I'm sure it's a complete lack of situational imagination on my part, but I'm trying to conceive of one where it would be preferable to have single-letter navigation turned off in browse mode when using a web browser.
 
[Aside: I'm really coming to the conclusion that laptop layout should be avoided when possible, and I know it's not always possible, but on any laptop that has a full keyboard with numberpad, I'd be using desktop layout.]
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Scratch most feminists and underneath there is a woman who longs to be a sex object. The difference is that is not all she wants to be.

    ~ Betty Rollin

 


Re: single quick nav shortcut

Sarah k Alawami
 

Actually it makes sence. Since I think of shift as being louder as in capitals. This is something you would want to think about. I use laptop mode in desktop keyboards as it makes for an easier time for me and hand motion. We’ve been down this battle before.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, April 9, 2022 10:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] single quick nav shortcut

 

Laptop layout is not logical as the desktop layout is.  That is one reason I avoid using it.  I would buy an external keyboard to avoid using it or buy an external numpad.

Gene

On 4/9/2022 12:19 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Sat, Apr 9, 2022 at 01:09 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:

NVDA key + shift + space will toggle single letter navigation on/off,

-
Can someone explain why one would want to do this?

I'm sure it's a complete lack of situational imagination on my part, but I'm trying to conceive of one where it would be preferable to have single-letter navigation turned off in browse mode when using a web browser.
 
[Aside: I'm really coming to the conclusion that laptop layout should be avoided when possible, and I know it's not always possible, but on any laptop that has a full keyboard with numberpad, I'd be using desktop layout.]
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Scratch most feminists and underneath there is a woman who longs to be a sex object. The difference is that is not all she wants to be.

    ~ Betty Rollin

 


Re: single quick nav shortcut

Gene
 
Edited

You can read anything with quick navigation keys on.  The movement commands and commands such as read current line, read to end, etc. are not affected.  I see no reason to be able to turn quick navigation off since it isn't on in focus mode.

Gene


On 4/9/2022 12:31 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

If you don’t want to toggle into focus mode to read something you can simply toggle off qn is how I look at it. Hope this helps.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, April 9, 2022 10:19 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] single quick nav shortcut

 

On Sat, Apr 9, 2022 at 01:09 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:

NVDA key + shift + space will toggle single letter navigation on/off,

-
Can someone explain why one would want to do this?

I'm sure it's a complete lack of situational imagination on my part, but I'm trying to conceive of one where it would be preferable to have single-letter navigation turned off in browse mode when using a web browser.
 
[Aside: I'm really coming to the conclusion that laptop layout should be avoided when possible, and I know it's not always possible, but on any laptop that has a full keyboard with numberpad, I'd be using desktop layout.]
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Scratch most feminists and underneath there is a woman who longs to be a sex object. The difference is that is not all she wants to be.

    ~ Betty Rollin


Re: single quick nav shortcut

 

On Sat, Apr 9, 2022 at 01:47 PM, Gene wrote:
Laptop layout is not logical as the desktop layout is. 
-
About which we agree.  But that's somewhat forced by the paucity of available key combinations that is created by a "classic" laptop keyboard.

I haven't seen many laptops with a "classic" style laptop keyboard except those that have screens smaller than 15" in quite a while.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Scratch most feminists and underneath there is a woman who longs to be a sex object. The difference is that is not all she wants to be.

    ~ Betty Rollin


Re: creating mailing lists in thunderbird

 

On Sat, Apr 9, 2022 at 01:44 PM, Gene wrote:
This is an illustration of the importance of paying close attention to what your screen-reader says in unfamiliar menus and dialogs and of letting all speech read when you move in such structures unless you know you are on something that doesn't apply. 
-
Gene, not that I don't agree with you about this on principle, but the original poster's comment that he has opened the menu and reviewed it in two separate states:  "when I open the addressbook with control+shift+b or by activating tools \ addressBook, and look at the file \ new menu, I get the same items that I find in that menu when the addressbook is not open."

This does not appear to be a lack of having looked/reviewed.  That's why I was asking about whether the addressbook had any individual entries in it.  I would presume that if there are no entries which one could use to create an Address List that option will either not be presented or will be there, but stippled out, and when the latter is the case most screen readers treat it as though it does not exist at all (because, for all practical intents and purposes, it doesn't at that moment).
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Scratch most feminists and underneath there is a woman who longs to be a sex object. The difference is that is not all she wants to be.

    ~ Betty Rollin


Re: single quick nav shortcut

Gene
 

Laptop layout is not logical as the desktop layout is.  That is one reason I avoid using it.  I would buy an external keyboard to avoid using it or buy an external numpad.

Gene

On 4/9/2022 12:19 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Sat, Apr 9, 2022 at 01:09 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
NVDA key + shift + space will toggle single letter navigation on/off,
-
Can someone explain why one would want to do this?

I'm sure it's a complete lack of situational imagination on my part, but I'm trying to conceive of one where it would be preferable to have single-letter navigation turned off in browse mode when using a web browser.
 
[Aside: I'm really coming to the conclusion that laptop layout should be avoided when possible, and I know it's not always possible, but on any laptop that has a full keyboard with numberpad, I'd be using desktop layout.]
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Scratch most feminists and underneath there is a woman who longs to be a sex object. The difference is that is not all she wants to be.

    ~ Betty Rollin



Re: creating mailing lists in thunderbird

Gene
 

This is an illustration of the importance of paying close attention to what your screen-reader says in unfamiliar menus and dialogs and of letting all speech read when you move in such structures unless you know you are on something that doesn't apply.  When you hear new, you also hear submenu.  Open the submenu  with enter.  Down arrow and you will fine mailing list.  Press enter on that and follow the procedure to create one.

Gene

On 4/9/2022 12:05 PM, Rich Caloggero wrote:

How does one do this?


The instructions in tthunderbird help suggest that the file \ new menu, when the addressbook is open, will contain an entry to do this. However, when I open the addressbook with control+shift+b or by activating tools \ addressBook, and look at the file \ new menu, I get the same items that I find in that menu when the addressbook is not open.


I'm using thunderbird 100.0B1.


Anyone have any ideas?


I've posted on the thunderbird help forum, and some helpful person there reiterated the instructions I already found online. This suggests that NVDA, for some reason, isn't properly reading the menubar.


Thanx.

 -- Rich




Re: single quick nav shortcut

Steve Nutt
 

Hi Brian,

 

Websites like Youtube use quick key shortcuts, so there is an argument for it. You can turn off the quick nav keys  without turning off browse mode. I quite like it. JAWS does it too.

 

All the best


Steve

 

--

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W: https://www.comproom.co.uk

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: 09 April 2022 18:19
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] single quick nav shortcut

 

On Sat, Apr 9, 2022 at 01:09 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:

NVDA key + shift + space will toggle single letter navigation on/off,

-
Can someone explain why one would want to do this?

I'm sure it's a complete lack of situational imagination on my part, but I'm trying to conceive of one where it would be preferable to have single-letter navigation turned off in browse mode when using a web browser.
 
[Aside: I'm really coming to the conclusion that laptop layout should be avoided when possible, and I know it's not always possible, but on any laptop that has a full keyboard with numberpad, I'd be using desktop layout.]
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Scratch most feminists and underneath there is a woman who longs to be a sex object. The difference is that is not all she wants to be.

    ~ Betty Rollin


Re: single quick nav shortcut

Sarah k Alawami
 

If you don’t want to toggle into focus mode to read something you can simply toggle off qn is how I look at it. Hope this helps.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, April 9, 2022 10:19 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] single quick nav shortcut

 

On Sat, Apr 9, 2022 at 01:09 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:

NVDA key + shift + space will toggle single letter navigation on/off,

-
Can someone explain why one would want to do this?

I'm sure it's a complete lack of situational imagination on my part, but I'm trying to conceive of one where it would be preferable to have single-letter navigation turned off in browse mode when using a web browser.
 
[Aside: I'm really coming to the conclusion that laptop layout should be avoided when possible, and I know it's not always possible, but on any laptop that has a full keyboard with numberpad, I'd be using desktop layout.]
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Scratch most feminists and underneath there is a woman who longs to be a sex object. The difference is that is not all she wants to be.

    ~ Betty Rollin


Re: single quick nav shortcut

 

On Sat, Apr 9, 2022 at 01:09 PM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
NVDA key + shift + space will toggle single letter navigation on/off,
-
Can someone explain why one would want to do this?

I'm sure it's a complete lack of situational imagination on my part, but I'm trying to conceive of one where it would be preferable to have single-letter navigation turned off in browse mode when using a web browser.
 
[Aside: I'm really coming to the conclusion that laptop layout should be avoided when possible, and I know it's not always possible, but on any laptop that has a full keyboard with numberpad, I'd be using desktop layout.]
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Scratch most feminists and underneath there is a woman who longs to be a sex object. The difference is that is not all she wants to be.

    ~ Betty Rollin


Re: creating mailing lists in thunderbird

 

Does the Address Book you have open actually have entries in it?  If not, you may not be presented with an option to create a new Address List.

If it does, if ALT + F, N, L  [File Menu, New, Address List] doesn't open the dialog to create a new address list, I'd report something to the Thunderbird folks unless, by some bizarre chance, NVDA is not detecting that this dialog has opened.  And even if that's the case, it could still be an Thunderbird bug or NVDA bug.  Both sides would probably want to take a look.

I'm using Tbird 98, as I don't want to update to the beta for 100.  This functionality has been the same for a very long time, and I don't imagine any major change should have taken place between versions 98 and 100 in that regard, but I cannot be 100% certain, either.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Scratch most feminists and underneath there is a woman who longs to be a sex object. The difference is that is not all she wants to be.

    ~ Betty Rollin


Re: single quick nav shortcut

Jacob Kruger
 

NVDA key + shift + space will toggle single letter navigation on/off, so, if you are using the caps-lock key as NVDA key, and accidentally activate the shift key at the same time, then when you complete the combination with the space bar, you can toggle single letter navigation on or off.


Stay well


Jacob Kruger
Skype: BlindZA
"...resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."

On 2022-04-09 07:02 PM, JinYoun wrote:
Hi, lately I've been having issues with accidentally turning off single quick nav  and could not find how to turn it back on without restarting NVDA... I looked through the list of shortcut for NVDA and could not find it there either.
This happens when I am toggling between focus and browse mode by pressing caps lock and the space bar and not sure what 'm pressing to turn off single quick nav...
Appreciate any tips on this. 


creating mailing lists in thunderbird

Rich Caloggero
 

How does one do this?


The instructions in tthunderbird help suggest that the file \ new menu, when the addressbook is open, will contain an entry to do this. However, when I open the addressbook with control+shift+b or by activating tools \ addressBook, and look at the file \ new menu, I get the same items that I find in that menu when the addressbook is not open.


I'm using thunderbird 100.0B1.


Anyone have any ideas?


I've posted on the thunderbird help forum, and some helpful person there reiterated the instructions I already found online. This suggests that NVDA, for some reason, isn't properly reading the menubar.


Thanx.

 -- Rich



single quick nav shortcut

JinYoun
 

Hi, lately I've been having issues with accidentally turning off single quick nav  and could not find how to turn it back on without restarting NVDA... I looked through the list of shortcut for NVDA and could not find it there either.
This happens when I am toggling between focus and browse mode by pressing caps lock and the space bar and not sure what 'm pressing to turn off single quick nav...
Appreciate any tips on this. 


Re: SayAll not auto reading in Chrome

 

Hi,

Chrome support is divided into several parts, of these the important parts are virtual buffers and IAccessible2. Virtual buffer requires NVDA to inject part of itself to Chrome to find out what's going on with the document and to consume the virtual buffer (browse mode) content, and IAccessible2 (IA2) is used to handle accessibility information provided by Chrome (obviously that depends on how web authors and frameworks coded their documents). NVDA would wait for the web document to be ready completely before starting say all, but it looks like with the change to Chrome 100, NV Access might be a taking a different approach to restore automatic say all on page load (we can go on for days talking about the basics of browse mode/virtual buffer internals).

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: SayAll not auto reading in Chrome

Steve Nutt
 

Hi Jean,

 

You’d think so, but not NVDA it appears.

 

I have tested JAWS, Supernova, System Access and Narrator, and they all auto read with Chrome, so it seems odd that NVDA doesn’t. I wonder why it relies on that particular event?

 

All the best


Steve

 

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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 08 April 2022 15:58
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] SayAll not auto reading in Chrome

 

I had assumed that the screen-reader read automatically based on some way the browser knew the document was fully loaded and not on a specific notification to the screen-reader from the browser.  Doesn't the browser somehow know internally when a page is loaded?

Gene

On 4/8/2022 7:49 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

If it is Chrome 100, then it confirms the following issue:

https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/13571

In short, the issue is caused by NVDA waiting for a specific event to occur which does not occur in Chromium 100 (affecting Chrome and Edge), and according to a technical overview by Mick Curran from NV Access (Mick is the creator and head NVDA developer, by the way), an event which NVDA hasn't responded for some years is now used by Chromium 100 to tell observers (screen readers, in this case) that the webpage is loaded completely (this event is appropriately named "document load complete"). A fix is indeed in the works - not sure in which NVDA release this will be part of.

Cheers,

Joseph

 


Re: SayAll not auto reading in Chrome

Gene
 

I had assumed that the screen-reader read automatically based on some way the browser knew the document was fully loaded and not on a specific notification to the screen-reader from the browser.  Doesn't the browser somehow know internally when a page is loaded?

Gene

On 4/8/2022 7:49 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

If it is Chrome 100, then it confirms the following issue:

https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/13571

In short, the issue is caused by NVDA waiting for a specific event to occur which does not occur in Chromium 100 (affecting Chrome and Edge), and according to a technical overview by Mick Curran from NV Access (Mick is the creator and head NVDA developer, by the way), an event which NVDA hasn't responded for some years is now used by Chromium 100 to tell observers (screen readers, in this case) that the webpage is loaded completely (this event is appropriately named "document load complete"). A fix is indeed in the works - not sure in which NVDA release this will be part of.

Cheers,

Joseph



Re: SayAll not auto reading in Chrome

Gene
 

I have the same thing happen.  I seldom use Chrome but I tested now.

Gene

On 4/8/2022 7:00 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:

I have it checked, and it still doesn’t work.

 

Have you tried it with Chrome Jean? NVDA doesn’t speak anything when you load a page in Chrome automatically.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 03 April 2022 13:48
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] SayAll not auto reading in Chrome

 

Have you rebooted since the problem began?  If that didn't solve the problem, try the following:

Open the browse mode dialog, control NVDA key b.
Tab until you get to say all on page load or similar wording.
It is a check box.
Check it with the space bar if it is unchecked.  Then press enter.  If the check box is already checked, uncheck it, then press enter.
Then, open the browse mode dialog again, tab to the check box, check it and press enter. 
See if that solves the problem.

Sometimes, if a setting in a program is lost, changing the setting, then changing it back to what it was will restore it.

Gene

On 4/3/2022 7:36 AM, John Sanfilippo wrote:

I'm running Windows 11, NVDA 2021.3.5, and I don't what version of Google Chrome. For the past few days, whenever I open any page, it does not auto read, I must press NVDA plus a.

Has something changed?

John

 


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