Date   

Re: Odd issue with NVDA and windows 11

 

Hi,

I also advise installing Event Tracker which is designed (somewhat) for issues like this. With this add-on installed, provided that NVDA is running with debug logging, it will log events coming from apps, including background apps. It might be that a background application might be responsible for progress bar announcement.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: please help with go to Meeting

David Goldfield
 

Thanks, Brian. Except for table navigation commands and the single letter shortcut keys for HTML documents NVDA is a bit more consistent in that almost all other NVDA commands involve using the NVDA modifier key. I personally don’t mind that Vispero occasionally plays a bit fast and loose with this rule but I could see how a user could get confused thinking that the command to bring up a list of spelling errors is a Word command and then wondering why it’s not working at all if they switch to using NVDA.

 

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

NVDA Certified Expert

 

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 11:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] please help with go to Meeting

 

David,

One of my favorite quotations that makes an occasional appearance as my signature:

    A sensible person realizes that all principles that can be expressed in a statement of finite length are oversimplified.

          ~ Robert Heppe

Heaven knows when it comes to trying to make generalities about software that observation is absolutely true.  I'm really glad that you caught what I was trying to do was cover what are "general rules" that do have exceptions, but you can usually figure out when you've got one going on (e.g., the single letter browsing commands, which work only in the screen reader, and nowhere else).

--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


Re: please help with go to Meeting

 

David,

One of my favorite quotations that makes an occasional appearance as my signature:

    A sensible person realizes that all principles that can be expressed in a statement of finite length are oversimplified.

          ~ Robert Heppe

Heaven knows when it comes to trying to make generalities about software that observation is absolutely true.  I'm really glad that you caught what I was trying to do was cover what are "general rules" that do have exceptions, but you can usually figure out when you've got one going on (e.g., the single letter browsing commands, which work only in the screen reader, and nowhere else).

--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


Re: please help with go to Meeting

David Goldfield
 

Hi. As this is a support list for NVDA users I don’t want to steer things off-topic to JAWS but I will say that JAWS does make the occasional exception in assigning JAWS-specific commands to keystrokes which don’t involve the JAWS modifier key, such as pressing alt-shift-L to generate a list of spelling errors in a Word document. However, Brian’s tip for determining whether a keystroke is screen reader specific definitely works 99.9% of the time. Of course, the other exceptions are the single letter navigation commands found on Web pages/HTML documents  and in Word documents, such as pressing H for next heading, which are screen reader specific.

 

 

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

NVDA Certified Expert

 

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 11:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] please help with go to Meeting

 

On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 08:44 PM, Gene wrote:

It may be helpful to explain in some detail how to distinguish between a screen-reader command and program or Windows commands. 

-
Indeed.  And I thank you for that.

There is, however, a somewhat "quick and dirty" method to filter, and that's a combination of:
1. Scope - where does the command actually work (in only one program, across multiple programs, or across multiple programs and in Windows) and on what is it acting?
2. Modifier Key or Keys used.

NVDA commands, for most cases, use the NVDA key as their modifier, whether that's the Insert key in desktop keyboard layout or CAPS LOCK in laptop layout.  If you have any command that uses the NVDA modifier key, you can be as close to completely assured as is possible that you're looking at an NVDA command.  (The same applies for JAWS, too, and from what I remember of Narrator it also applies there).

CTRL, ALT and the two in combination are a bit less clear, because they get used both within programs and by Windows.  In the vast majority of cases if you use CTRL + ALT + something else, it's being handled by Windows.  That includes firing up NVDA via CTRL + ALT + N.  That's a shortcut that is interpreted by Windows that gets created if you so choose when you install NVDA, but it is NOT, in any way, acted upon directly by NVDA.  Those of you who've created other keyboard shortcuts in the Properties dialog for a desktop shortcut that doesn't have one by default have done precisely the same thing the NVDA installer does when it installs NVDA.  In the case of when NVDA is running, there are cases where CTRL + ALT + Arrow Keys are NVDA commands, but those cases are constrained by very specific situations, like being inside a table.  If you're not in the specific situation where those commands are interpreted by NVDA, they do nothing.  A quick cruise through the NVDA commands quick reference shows how rare NVDA keyboard commands without the NVDA key modifier are, with the exception of those done on the number pad when it is not in number pad mode.  Overall, it's pretty darned safe to assume if NVDA Key is not involved, it's most likely not an NVDA command.

For things like cut, copy, paste, and similar you can use the context in which you use the command, and exactly what it's acting on, to get a very good idea of which program layer is interpreting it.  If you are in a word processor, what is it that you cut, copy, and paste?  Text, tables, other objects like images, text boxes, etc., and all of those things are created within that word processor.  Things like mute/unmute, well, do those make sense in Word, Excel, File Explorer, etc.?  No, they do not, and they are acting on sound in programs that have sound as something they manipulate, so in that case you have very clear evidence, if those commands are CTRL or ALT plus some letter or function key that those are controlled by that program.  For those who use email clients, think about all of the CTRL, ALT, or function key commands that do what they do only when that client is open and operating.  That's a clear indication that they are that email client's commands, not Windows, not your screen reader.

But a few seconds thinking about exactly where and when a command works, what it works on, and whether it includes any really distinct modifier key, like the NVDA key, gives you some really good, and not particularly complicated, ways to make a very educated guess as to "who controls what" in reference to that specific command in the context where it's being used.

It's really not all that complicated.  And I have to say that Betsy's original query, as a whole shows that.  The topic title showed a clear, if not conscious, understanding of what was being asked about, "Go To Meeting."  And the specific question asking about mute/unmute instantly tells you:  not NVDA, as NVDA doesn't mute/unmute sound from a program in the way being asked about and there's no NVDA modifier involved.  And it's not likely that any mute/unmute command is going to be handled by Windows if it only effects a single program.  You can mute/unmute all sound, and that's what's under the control of Windows, but if you're selectively muting the output from Zoom, Go To Meeting, a media player, or similar the command you're using to do that goes with that program.  But regardless, because the classic NVDA modifier key is nowhere to be seen, it's really, really unlikely to be an NVDA command.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


Re: Speech delay in Excel

 

On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 10:38 PM, David Goldfield wrote:
Not to mention that he's using an unsupported operating system along with an unsupported version of Excel.
-
Indeed.  And all one needs to do, particularly in regard to Excel, is think about how many patches have been made to Excel and NVDA both as time has marched on and changes have occurred to Excel.  There are fixes that were made for later versions of Excel that very likely rely on patches that occurred to Excel itself, and where something like Excel 2003 would never have received any of those patches.

While I can't (as much as I'd really love to do so) forbid the discussion of Windows 7 here so long as NVDA officially supports running under it, here's a big warning that the very moment that NVDA does a release that no longer runs on Windows 7 that discussions of issues under Windows 7 will stop here.  There seems to be a perception among some that backward compatibility is and should be perpetual - it never has been and it never will be.  There also seems to be a perception that I am being mean or unreasonable for saying (and it's said in the group rules):  "The discussion of software on the NVDA Group is limited to software currently in support.  Depending on the type of software, specific version numbers will change with time.  Users are expected to know what remains in support and what has been dropped, and announcements will be made to this group when new software is released. It should be assumed that, when a new version of software is released, primary discussion will take place on that version, not versions of software which are years old. 

 

Unsupported versions of any software may only be discussed on the Chat Subgroup, not the main NVDA Group. "

But I'm not being unreasonable, it is those that think that any technical support group should be entertaining questions about software that's long out of support and hasn't received a patch in years are.  And very often the issues that are occurring with software that old, in combination with up-to-date screen readers and even Windows cannot ever be solved because they are due to things that will never be fixed.

So, after all of that has been said, if you are someone using Office 2003, then I don't care if you're on the latest version of NVDA or not, the topic belongs in the Chat Subgroup.  Office 2003 has been out of support for over a decade, and all of the programs in it will have issues that are not going to be fixed and that frequently were fixed in subsequent versions.  You are far more likely to fix a range of issues by getting a version of Office that is 2016 or newer, or going to Microsoft 365.  If that's cost prohibitive, although it's not as accessible as Office is overall, there is LibreOffice, which is free, and they have their own accessibility mailing list.

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--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


Re: please help with go to Meeting

Betsy Grenevitch
 

Thank you so much. I will save these notes.



On 4/21/2022 8:44 PM, Gene wrote:
It may be helpful to explain in some detail how to distinguish between a screen-reader command and program or Windows commands. 

In general, a command is a screen-reader command when it has to do with doing something you have to read the screen for and that doesn't affect a program or Windows, meaning it takes no action in a program or Windows.  Commands like read current line, read title bar, and all the quick navigation commands such as move by heading, are screen-reader commands.  Say time is another screen-reader command.

While a lot of other commands result in speech, that is because the screen-reader is announcing the effects of commands that do something in a program or Windows.  Examples are move right by character, right arrow, move left by character, left arrow, and move right and left by word, control right arrow and control left arrow.  Those commands all move the application cursor.  Move up one line, up arrow, and move down one line, down arrow, are program commands.  You are moving the program cursor down or up a line.

A screen review command that reviews the screen but doesn't do anything in a program is a screen-reader command.  tabbing in a dialog.  is a program or Windows command.  The screen-reader speaks the field in the dialog you have moved to but again, you are taking an action that affects a program or Windows and the screen-reader is telling you the result of the action, which field you have moved to in the program or windows.  Even if you weren't using a screen-reader, the arrow keys and tabbing would do exactly the same thing.  You wouldn't hear speech, but the results would be identical.  A sighted person could move the program cursor in a word processor, for example, or tab through a dialog, or open menus, using exactly the same commands as a blind person would use.  They are all program or Windows commands.

If more people knew how to generally distinguish between screen-reader commands and others, they would understand that most commands they use most of the time are program or Windows commands.  They would then understand that they can have a main screen-reader and one or more they use when the main one doesn't do things well.  And they wouldn't have to learn much to use the second screen-reader for the limited purposes they would use it for.

They might also be more willing to stop using obsolete programs like Internet Explorer.  The commands used in browse mode would be the same, regardless of browser, if the browser supports browse mode. 

There are things to learn but you already know most of what you would use.

Gene

--
Betsy Grenevitch 678-862-3876


Re: please help with go to Meeting

 

On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 08:44 PM, Gene wrote:
It may be helpful to explain in some detail how to distinguish between a screen-reader command and program or Windows commands. 
-
Indeed.  And I thank you for that.

There is, however, a somewhat "quick and dirty" method to filter, and that's a combination of:
1. Scope - where does the command actually work (in only one program, across multiple programs, or across multiple programs and in Windows) and on what is it acting?
2. Modifier Key or Keys used.

NVDA commands, for most cases, use the NVDA key as their modifier, whether that's the Insert key in desktop keyboard layout or CAPS LOCK in laptop layout.  If you have any command that uses the NVDA modifier key, you can be as close to completely assured as is possible that you're looking at an NVDA command.  (The same applies for JAWS, too, and from what I remember of Narrator it also applies there).

CTRL, ALT and the two in combination are a bit less clear, because they get used both within programs and by Windows.  In the vast majority of cases if you use CTRL + ALT + something else, it's being handled by Windows.  That includes firing up NVDA via CTRL + ALT + N.  That's a shortcut that is interpreted by Windows that gets created if you so choose when you install NVDA, but it is NOT, in any way, acted upon directly by NVDA.  Those of you who've created other keyboard shortcuts in the Properties dialog for a desktop shortcut that doesn't have one by default have done precisely the same thing the NVDA installer does when it installs NVDA.  In the case of when NVDA is running, there are cases where CTRL + ALT + Arrow Keys are NVDA commands, but those cases are constrained by very specific situations, like being inside a table.  If you're not in the specific situation where those commands are interpreted by NVDA, they do nothing.  A quick cruise through the NVDA commands quick reference shows how rare NVDA keyboard commands without the NVDA key modifier are, with the exception of those done on the number pad when it is not in number pad mode.  Overall, it's pretty darned safe to assume if NVDA Key is not involved, it's most likely not an NVDA command.

For things like cut, copy, paste, and similar you can use the context in which you use the command, and exactly what it's acting on, to get a very good idea of which program layer is interpreting it.  If you are in a word processor, what is it that you cut, copy, and paste?  Text, tables, other objects like images, text boxes, etc., and all of those things are created within that word processor.  Things like mute/unmute, well, do those make sense in Word, Excel, File Explorer, etc.?  No, they do not, and they are acting on sound in programs that have sound as something they manipulate, so in that case you have very clear evidence, if those commands are CTRL or ALT plus some letter or function key that those are controlled by that program.  For those who use email clients, think about all of the CTRL, ALT, or function key commands that do what they do only when that client is open and operating.  That's a clear indication that they are that email client's commands, not Windows, not your screen reader.

But a few seconds thinking about exactly where and when a command works, what it works on, and whether it includes any really distinct modifier key, like the NVDA key, gives you some really good, and not particularly complicated, ways to make a very educated guess as to "who controls what" in reference to that specific command in the context where it's being used.

It's really not all that complicated.  And I have to say that Betsy's original query, as a whole shows that.  The topic title showed a clear, if not conscious, understanding of what was being asked about, "Go To Meeting."  And the specific question asking about mute/unmute instantly tells you:  not NVDA, as NVDA doesn't mute/unmute sound from a program in the way being asked about and there's no NVDA modifier involved.  And it's not likely that any mute/unmute command is going to be handled by Windows if it only effects a single program.  You can mute/unmute all sound, and that's what's under the control of Windows, but if you're selectively muting the output from Zoom, Go To Meeting, a media player, or similar the command you're using to do that goes with that program.  But regardless, because the classic NVDA modifier key is nowhere to be seen, it's really, really unlikely to be an NVDA command.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


Re: Speech delay in Excel

David Goldfield
 

Not to mention that he's using an unsupported operating system along with an unsupported version of Excel.
David, where did the version of Eloquence come from? Is it a SAPI version or the addon from Code Factory?
Does the delay occur with other synthesizers?
If there is any possibility that your computer can be upgraded to Windows 10 I would definitely recommend doing this along with upgrading your version of Office either to Microsoft 365 or to a supported perpetual license, such as Office 2019, 2021, etc.


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

NVDA Certified Expert

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.
Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io
www.DavidGoldfield.org

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 3:50 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Speech delay in Excel

I don't know why you are having the problem.  I don't know if the Eloquence add-on that you can purchase might cause this problem or if the SAPI 5 Eloquence might have this problem.

I would suggest trying another synthesizer to see if you still have the problem.  E-speak, being very responsive, despite how it sounds, would be a good test and it would be a good test because a lot of people would have that synthesizer available if they want to compare behavior on their machines.

Gene
On 4/21/2022 12:40 PM, David Hoff Jr wrote:
I am using:
1. Eloquence reed
2. Windows 7
3. Excel 2003
4. latest version of NVDA

I can remove the colon and the delay is still there.
If I remove the "#" sign the delay goes away.

The delay is slight, but long enough that I often cursor over it
accidentaly. If it were not for NVDA saying "cell" on the empty cells
I would not have caught this. I have punctuation set to the default
setting.


Re: Odd issue with NVDA and windows 11

Luke Davis
 

Armando Maldonado wrote:

Hello, No to your questions, it just does this even when pc is idle. I'v eeven restored Windows to no avail, thanks.
Do you have, or can you get, the speech history add-on? If so, can you check what is spoken right before the progress bar starts announcing?

I suspect a background updater, such as the old Apple Software Update, that isn't quite background enough.

You can also check your startup applications to see if anything is running that might cause progress bars.

Lastly, if background progress bars is checked in object presentation settings, progress bars you wouldn't normally hear will be announced. Turning that off might solve the symptom, though not the cause, of your problem.
Luke


Re: please help with go to Meeting

Gene
 

It may be helpful to explain in some detail how to distinguish between a screen-reader command and program or Windows commands. 

In general, a command is a screen-reader command when it has to do with doing something you have to read the screen for and that doesn't affect a program or Windows, meaning it takes no action in a program or Windows.  Commands like read current line, read title bar, and all the quick navigation commands such as move by heading, are screen-reader commands.  Say time is another screen-reader command.

While a lot of other commands result in speech, that is because the screen-reader is announcing the effects of commands that do something in a program or Windows.  Examples are move right by character, right arrow, move left by character, left arrow, and move right and left by word, control right arrow and control left arrow.  Those commands all move the application cursor.  Move up one line, up arrow, and move down one line, down arrow, are program commands.  You are moving the program cursor down or up a line.

A screen review command that reviews the screen but doesn't do anything in a program is a screen-reader command.  tabbing in a dialog.  is a program or Windows command.  The screen-reader speaks the field in the dialog you have moved to but again, you are taking an action that affects a program or Windows and the screen-reader is telling you the result of the action, which field you have moved to in the program or windows.  Even if you weren't using a screen-reader, the arrow keys and tabbing would do exactly the same thing.  You wouldn't hear speech, but the results would be identical.  A sighted person could move the program cursor in a word processor, for example, or tab through a dialog, or open menus, using exactly the same commands as a blind person would use.  They are all program or Windows commands.

If more people knew how to generally distinguish between screen-reader commands and others, they would understand that most commands they use most of the time are program or Windows commands.  They would then understand that they can have a main screen-reader and one or more they use when the main one doesn't do things well.  And they wouldn't have to learn much to use the second screen-reader for the limited purposes they would use it for.

They might also be more willing to stop using obsolete programs like Internet Explorer.  The commands used in browse mode would be the same, regardless of browser, if the browser supports browse mode. 

There are things to learn but you already know most of what you would use.

Gene


Re: Formatting issues in Word, add-on?

 

On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 07:48 PM, Luke Davis wrote:
Sorry Janet, but that is far too broad a version number to be helpful.
-
Really?   Microsoft 365 is not narrow enough?

I doubt the log is going to indicate the version of word used to create the original document or document template.  If you get a dot doc or dot dot file you know it predates Office 2007, but that's about all you know, or will likely ever know, unless the file's originator is around, at least without forensic analysis that most of us are not able to do.

And any of the Word versions from 2016 and later are Version 16 dot something, and 365 is pretty consistently kept to the very latest, or at oldest one step back from the latest, version.  All Words within the 365 sphere are very late 16 dot something versions.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


Re: please help with go to Meeting

 

Betsy,

You're quite welcome.  As I noted, it often makes things clearer, much clearer, when you understand "who controls what."

Believe me, each and every one of us has been a neophyte at any given thing we've ever tried or used.  Your post just provided me an opportunity to illustrate that most things where the question is, "How do I do this thing in that program [using keyboard commands]?," will typically have the same answer whether any screen reader is involved or not.

And having lived through my Mom's years with Alzheimer's dementia, which lasted for over a decade, I know only too well how challenging dementia (regardless of type) is.  You seem to be doing a remarkable job in using compensatory strategies to manage your day to day life.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


Re: Formatting issues in Word, add-on?

Luke Davis
 

Janet Brandly wrote:

Yes, I have MS 365 and the template is in Word 1997-2003.
Sorry Janet, but that is far too broad a version number to be helpful. Perhaps if you get Joseph that log, he can get the real version number.

But the reason I'm asking.
There is a known obscure issue reported wherein certain versions of Word don't correctly indicate the turning on/off of such attributes as you are talking about, when the cursor is in certain positions, and UIA is turned on (NVDA Advanced settings). I just heard about this last night (or if I knew, I forgot).
It is believed to be resolved by Word version 16.0.15028.20204, which is why I asked for your version number.

The issue is talked about here: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/pull/10990

One interesting thing I’ve noticed is that after I’ve selected and italicized line of text and
turned italics off with ctrlI, underlining seems to be turned on so I have to check for that and turn that off as well.
Now that leads in a whole different direction. Joseph seems to have some ideas there, but it could be something else entirely from what I was thinking.

Luke


Re: please help with go to Meeting

Betsy Grenevitch
 

Thank you, Brian. I had no idea that the commands were universal for Go to Meeting no matter what screen reader you are using. I know just enough to survive using different applications. On top of that I am dealing with dementia that is getting worse so have to refer to notes now even for things I have done for years.

Betsy




Betsy Grenevitch 678-862-3876

----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
Date: Thursday, April 21, 2022 06:30 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] please help with go to Meeting

On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 03:08 PM, Betsy Grenevitch wrote:

I am not trying to cause trouble but am trying to figure out why it is not
NVDA related when it is NVDA I am using so I need commands that work with
NVDA?
-
Because they are not "commands that work with NVDA."  They are commands for that program that work for that program whether NVDA is involved or not.
During my time as moderator here one of the things I have really been trying to emphasize is that all members need to think, carefully, about "what's in control" when asking about something.  Sometimes this is not necessarily clear, but in this case, it's crystal clear even by the way you originally asked the question.
The fact that CTRL + C (Copy), CTRL + V (Paste), CTRL + X (Cut), CTRL + Z (Undo), and many other commands work when you happen to be using NVDA has absolutely nothing to do with NVDA.  They work whether NVDA, JAWS, Narrator, or no screen reader is involved.  They are (in the case of this short list) Windows commands that are applicable in a wide variety of programs that run under Windows.
I've included a part in the group rules that reads: It is presumed that the majority of members will be using NVDA, and possibly other screen readers, as part of their daily routine.  This being the case, before you post a message you have to consider whether the question you are about to ask is actually about NVDA itself, or about the program you're using it to access.  Questions of the form, How do I use . . . with NVDA?, are very seldom about NVDA, but are almost always about the program being accessed with NVDA.
In your specific case, you initially asked, in regard to Go To Meetng, " Could someone please give me the mute and unmute commands? "  Those are commands for that program.  NVDA has nothing to do with muting or unmuting Go To Meeting, you just so happen to be using NVDA to access it.
Believe it or not, having some idea of what are Windows commands, versus individual program/app commands, versus the commands of your chosen screen reader often makes it much easier to figure out where you need to direct your attention and research to get something done.
--
Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044
*You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
* ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


Re: please help with go to Meeting

 

On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 03:08 PM, Betsy Grenevitch wrote:
I am not trying to cause trouble but am trying to figure out why it is not NVDA related when it is NVDA I am using so I need commands that work with NVDA?
-
Because they are not "commands that work with NVDA."  They are commands for that program that work for that program whether NVDA is involved or not.

During my time as moderator here one of the things I have really been trying to emphasize is that all members need to think, carefully, about "what's in control" when asking about something.  Sometimes this is not necessarily clear, but in this case, it's crystal clear even by the way you originally asked the question.

The fact that CTRL + C (Copy), CTRL + V (Paste), CTRL + X (Cut), CTRL + Z (Undo), and many other commands work when you happen to be using NVDA has absolutely nothing to do with NVDA.  They work whether NVDA, JAWS, Narrator, or no screen reader is involved.  They are (in the case of this short list) Windows commands that are applicable in a wide variety of programs that run under Windows.

I've included a part in the group rules that reads:  It is presumed that the majority of members will be using NVDA, and possibly other screen readers, as part of their daily routine.  This being the case, before you post a message you have to consider whether the question you are about to ask is actually about NVDA itself, or about the program you’re using it to access.  Questions of the form, How do I use . . . with NVDA?, are very seldom about NVDA, but are almost always about the program being accessed with NVDA.

In your specific case, you initially asked, in regard to Go To Meetng, "Could someone please give me the mute and unmute commands?"  Those are commands for that program.  NVDA has nothing to do with muting or unmuting Go To Meeting, you just so happen to be using NVDA to access it.

Believe it or not, having some idea of what are Windows commands, versus individual program/app commands, versus the commands of your chosen screen reader often makes it much easier to figure out where you need to direct your attention and research to get something done.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


Re: I can't turn off NVDA

Arlene
 

To do it. 1. Hold down the insert key 2 hit the q and you will be asked if you want to quit NVDA. If you do. Then hit the enter key. Bam! It’s gone.  Or, if you don’t want to shut it off. Hit the escape key.   

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: David Van Reyk
Sent: April 21, 2022 6:55 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] I can't turn off NVDA

 

Hello!
I had our ITD department set up NVDA on my work laptop. I think I did this without managing the settings. So at the moment, I can't turn it off when the computer starts up. Once I have logged in I can work without getting the audio descriptors (I am not visually impaired, I am a teacher using it to get user experience).  For the life of me, I can't work out where I modify the settings for NVDA such as setting up what keystroke protocol to use to turn NVDA off and on. Apparently, there was a thread 
https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda/topic/trouble_closing_n but I am struggling to find the thread to read what it says.
Cheers,
David

 


Re: I can't turn off NVDA

 

You may need an admin do it for you.

I am setting nvda on a system that will not be needed so I plan to do it from start.

However when I ever setup a system on a computer that like needs it, I tend to make my configs, set it up with the addons I need, make the portable, do a transfer and install it.

Its how I usually do it to an active system.

Thats what I do on most cases.

Unless like the system I will be setting it on being a minimal case system used for spaciffic tasks.

Its not going to need everything I usually setup as its going to do a spaciffic set of tasks.

The only time I will need to do anything with it is when I maintain it once a year or more so I don't need the latest everything just the basics.



On 21/04/2022 5:06 pm, David Van Reyk wrote:
Hello!
I had our ITD department set up NVDA on my work laptop. I think I did this without managing the settings. So at the moment, I can't turn it off when the computer starts up. Once I have logged in I can work without getting the audio descriptors (I am not visually impaired, I am a teacher using it to get user experience).  For the life of me, I can't work out where I modify the settings for NVDA such as setting up what keystroke protocol to use to turn NVDA off and on. Apparently, there was a thread 
https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda/topic/trouble_closing_n but I am struggling to find the thread to read what it says.
Cheers,
David


Re: Odd issue with NVDA and windows 11

Armando Maldonado
 

Hello, I have not yet, but will do this next, thanks.

armando

On 4/21/2022 2:00 PM, Gene wrote:
Have you had a sighted person look at the screen?  There may be something occurring the screen-reader is unable to show you except that it shows its progress.

Gene

On 4/21/2022 3:31 PM, Armando Maldonado wrote:

Hello, No to your questions, it just does this even when pc is idle. I'v eeven restored Windows to no avail, thanks.

On 4/21/2022 1:03 PM, Gene wrote:
I don't think this is an NVDA problem.  I think something is going on in Windows or a Windows program that is causing a progress bar to be displayed and NVDA is reading it.  If you alt tab around, do you see any window that gives any idea of what it might be?  Also, did this behavior start after any event, such as after updates were installed or after you installed a program?

Gene

On 4/21/2022 11:13 AM, Armando Maldonado wrote:

Hello,

Using latest build of NVDA along with Windows 11, I'm noticing that all of a sudden on its own, it reads progress bars. I am wondering if there's a way to turn this off, or what can be causing such behavior? The only way I get rid of this is if I turn off progress bar announcements, any help would be grately appreciated. Thanks.

Armando




Re: Odd issue with NVDA and windows 11

Gene
 

Have you had a sighted person look at the screen?  There may be something occurring the screen-reader is unable to show you except that it shows its progress.

Gene

On 4/21/2022 3:31 PM, Armando Maldonado wrote:

Hello, No to your questions, it just does this even when pc is idle. I'v eeven restored Windows to no avail, thanks.

On 4/21/2022 1:03 PM, Gene wrote:
I don't think this is an NVDA problem.  I think something is going on in Windows or a Windows program that is causing a progress bar to be displayed and NVDA is reading it.  If you alt tab around, do you see any window that gives any idea of what it might be?  Also, did this behavior start after any event, such as after updates were installed or after you installed a program?

Gene

On 4/21/2022 11:13 AM, Armando Maldonado wrote:

Hello,

Using latest build of NVDA along with Windows 11, I'm noticing that all of a sudden on its own, it reads progress bars. I am wondering if there's a way to turn this off, or what can be causing such behavior? The only way I get rid of this is if I turn off progress bar announcements, any help would be grately appreciated. Thanks.

Armando




Re: Odd issue with NVDA and windows 11

Armando Maldonado
 

Hello, No to your questions, it just does this even when pc is idle. I'v eeven restored Windows to no avail, thanks.

On 4/21/2022 1:03 PM, Gene wrote:
I don't think this is an NVDA problem.  I think something is going on in Windows or a Windows program that is causing a progress bar to be displayed and NVDA is reading it.  If you alt tab around, do you see any window that gives any idea of what it might be?  Also, did this behavior start after any event, such as after updates were installed or after you installed a program?

Gene

On 4/21/2022 11:13 AM, Armando Maldonado wrote:

Hello,

Using latest build of NVDA along with Windows 11, I'm noticing that all of a sudden on its own, it reads progress bars. I am wondering if there's a way to turn this off, or what can be causing such behavior? The only way I get rid of this is if I turn off progress bar announcements, any help would be grately appreciated. Thanks.

Armando


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