Date   

Re: how to fix pronouncing abbreviations in NVDA?

 

On Thu, May 19, 2022 at 06:28 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
NVDA passes the information on to the synthesizer, as it sees it ("sd" or "SD" in this case), it is up to the synth to work out how to pronounce it and unfortunately they often try to be clever and work out what abbreviations are rather than simply saying what is presented.
-
Quentin,

Not to argue with you (as what you say is accurate), but I don't consider it "being clever" for a synth to try to work out what unpronouncable character sequences might mean, and pronounce the meaning, rather than always doing a character by character reading.

To me, any of the 2-character US State abbreviations are more likely to make the most sense when announced as their state names rather than the two characters.  There are, of course, exceptions.

We see the same sort of thing when it comes to numbers.  I'd rather hear fifteen pronounced as such rather than one five.  But there are definitely contexts where huge numbers are in constant use where it's more handy to have them announced digit-by-digit, which can be achieved, but that would be the exception case rather than the rule when handed to something to pronounce.  

And, of course, context always matters.  In the case of numbers, US ZIP Codes as well as Social Security Numbers are never pronounced by human readers as a numeric value, but as a digit sequence.

Synth writers are trying to apply certain rules about what to pronounce how, and when, based on how it's generally done by most speakers.  Mistakes are, of course, inevitable, and that's the beauty of dictionaries to be able to handle these mistakes on a case-by-case or, in the case of regular expressions, class-by-class, basis.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


NVDA Remote Add-On Review and Demonstration

TheeQuinn Public
 
Edited

Hey everybody it's me again! I am back and with a big upload too. It took me two days to record, edit, and write the transcript so hopefully you guys will find it helpful. I took a break from my html series to bring you a add-on review. This is a review and demonstration of the NVDA Remote Access add-on. Enjoy! And remember that your feedback is much appreciated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NatxdIc_K0I 


Re: Windows mail with NVDA usable?

Gene
 

I don't know what problem you had.  Thunderbird has a good utility for automatically finding information needed to create accounts if you furnish usernames and passwords. 

I don't know how many people  have the problem of messages being left to pile up on servers, but its something people who use the program should be aware of and check when they first start using it.

Since I have the problem, others should check when they first start using the program to see if they do.  I can't generalize from my experience and I may have written as though I was.  But what I meant to say is that since I have this behavior, people should check.

Gene

On 5/19/2022 5:15 PM, Arlene wrote:

, I use windows mail on here with my gmail account.  It’s not a problem. I do from time to time check mail on the gmail site so it’s not kept on the server.  I tried installing thunderbird on my system and I could not put gmail on it.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Gene
Sent: May 19, 2022 2:41 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows mail with NVDA usable?

 

What problems are you having?  If you are referring to the Mail app, for use with Windows 10 and 11, it is usable, but I think it is a bad idea to use it and I would strongly recommend Thunderbird instead.

I tried using it with GMail and, though deleting messages in the app means they no longer show in the app, they are still left on the server.  Over time, you would have an enormous number of messages left in GMail, I believe still in the inbox.  Wherever they are, they are just taking up space.

Since I only tried the program with GMail, I don't know what might happen with other servers but I wouldn't want to take the chance.

If you still want to try the app, let us know what problems you are having and we can discuss them.  For example, f9 is the command to download messages.

Gene

On 5/19/2022 3:24 AM, Daniel Sommerfeld wrote:

Hi all.


I have tried Windows mail with NVDA and it seems to me, that it is not usable.


Is it really not usable or is that a microsoft app thing. Means, do i have to download it from a different source to get an accessible version?


Regards

Daniel






.

 

 

.


Re: how to fix pronouncing abbreviations in NVDA?

Quentin Christensen
 

NVDA passes the information on to the synthesizer, as it sees it ("sd" or "SD" in this case), it is up to the synth to work out how to pronounce it and unfortunately they often try to be clever and work out what abbreviations are rather than simply saying what is presented.

Using a different voice or synthesizer might give a different result, but the way to absolutely override it is, as others have indicated, with the speech dictionary.  We posted a walkthrough of creating an entry for exactly this reason in our In-Process blog last year: https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-16th-april-2021/#Dictionaries (The steps haven't changed).

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Fri, May 20, 2022 at 8:15 AM Tyler Spivey via groups.io <tspivey=pcdesk.net@groups.io> wrote:
What synthesizer are you using?

On 5/19/2022 2:20 PM, Sue J. Ward wrote:
>   Hello. I was wondering whenever NVDA comes across abbreviations it
> kind of mispronounces them. For example instead of sd, it says South
> Dakota. I want it to say the letters  sd even if sd is in all caps.
> Another one is instead of HP, it says horse power. It is quite annoying.
> If I come across these types of things I have to go back and double
> check as to what I am reading, I would really like to fix this. How
> would I do this since I did read something about this in the speech
> dictionaries, how would I access them since I don't have anything with
> touch jesters, I use the keyboard for everything. Any help you could
> send my way would be great. Thank you.
>
>
>
>
>







--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: NVDA2022.1RC2 Silent Start Button?

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Jason,

Have you rebooted the PC since updating to RC2?  We often see "odd" quirks like this just after updating NVDA and before restarting the PC..

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Fri, May 20, 2022 at 7:23 AM Jason Bratcher <imcoocoo@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]
[Reason: Using Windows 11 21H2 (x64) build 22000.675 Home Edition]

I just installed RC2 of 2022.1.
Upon focusing the Start button, NVDA says nothing and goes silent.
In addition, if I shift+Tab back to the desktop listview of icons, it says nothing, but focus indeed moves between them.
Highlighting an icon and right-clicking it for a menu still has NVDA silent.
RC1 did not do this on my HP DQ1038WM with the Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-1005G1 CPU @ 1.20GHz, 1201 Mhz, 2 Core(s), 4 Logical Processor(s).
Strange indeed.
But when I then focus back onto the taskbar/notification area,
NvDA starts talking again, as if nothing was wrong.



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: Windows mail with NVDA usable?

Arlene
 

Yes there is!  You have to go into follders. Then arrow to deleted.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Peter Beasley
Sent: May 19, 2022 6:36 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows mail with NVDA usable?

 

My only problem with Windows Mail is that there is not a deleted items folder.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Chris Mullins
Sent: 19 May 2022 11:40
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows mail with NVDA usable?

 

Hi

I use the Mail app in Windows 10 and it is usable but rather less than feature rich.  If you are happy with something basic it will be OK.

Cheers

                Chris

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Luke Davis
Sent: 19 May 2022 09:44
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows mail with NVDA usable?

 

Daniel Sommerfeld wrote:

 

> I have tried Windows mail with NVDA and it seems to me, that it is not

> usable.

 

It depends on what you are trying to do with it.

For very basic reading, writing, and forwarding, it works well enough.

 

Some of its folder actions, selection options, etc., are not so very accessible.

 

Better to use Thunderbird or Outlook if you can.

 

Luke

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: Windows mail with NVDA usable?

Arlene
 

, I use windows mail on here with my gmail account.  It’s not a problem. I do from time to time check mail on the gmail site so it’s not kept on the server.  I tried installing thunderbird on my system and I could not put gmail on it.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Gene
Sent: May 19, 2022 2:41 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows mail with NVDA usable?

 

What problems are you having?  If you are referring to the Mail app, for use with Windows 10 and 11, it is usable, but I think it is a bad idea to use it and I would strongly recommend Thunderbird instead.

I tried using it with GMail and, though deleting messages in the app means they no longer show in the app, they are still left on the server.  Over time, you would have an enormous number of messages left in GMail, I believe still in the inbox.  Wherever they are, they are just taking up space.

Since I only tried the program with GMail, I don't know what might happen with other servers but I wouldn't want to take the chance.

If you still want to try the app, let us know what problems you are having and we can discuss them.  For example, f9 is the command to download messages.

Gene

On 5/19/2022 3:24 AM, Daniel Sommerfeld wrote:

Hi all.


I have tried Windows mail with NVDA and it seems to me, that it is not usable.


Is it really not usable or is that a microsoft app thing. Means, do i have to download it from a different source to get an accessible version?


Regards

Daniel






.

 

 


Re: how to fix pronouncing abbreviations in NVDA?

Tyler Spivey
 

What synthesizer are you using?

On 5/19/2022 2:20 PM, Sue J. Ward wrote:
 Hello. I was wondering whenever NVDA comes across abbreviations it kind of mispronounces them. For example instead of sd, it says South Dakota. I want it to say the letters  sd even if sd is in all caps. Another one is instead of HP, it says horse power. It is quite annoying. If I come across these types of things I have to go back and double check as to what I am reading, I would really like to fix this. How would I do this since I did read something about this in the speech dictionaries, how would I access them since I don't have anything with touch jesters, I use the keyboard for everything. Any help you could send my way would be great. Thank you.


Re: how to fix pronouncing abbreviations in NVDA?

Gene
 

What I do in such cases is to open the default speech dictionary in the following way:
NVDA key n, then open preferences.
up arrow to speech dictionaries and press enter.
Press enter again to open the default dictionary.
Tab to the add button and press the space bar.
Type the abbreviation, all capitals if it is capitalized when you come across it, and then tab to the pronounced as field.
Type what you want said, like ssd
Tab to a field that says anywhere.  I think you will want whole word so the letters are only spoken when found by themselves as the abbreviation.  Down arrow in the field to whole word.  I haven't worked with abbreviations so I may be wrong about using whole word but you can see if the entries work properly.
Tab to and activate the OK button.
Tab to and activate the next OK button.
The dictionary will close and the entry will be made.
Let us know if you have problems.

Gene

On 5/19/2022 4:20 PM, Sue J. Ward wrote:
 Hello. I was wondering whenever NVDA comes across abbreviations it kind of mispronounces them. For example instead of sd, it says South Dakota. I want it to say the letters  sd even if sd is in all caps. Another one is instead of HP, it says horse power. It is quite annoying. If I come across these types of things I have to go back and double check as to what I am reading, I would really like to fix this. How would I do this since I did read something about this in the speech dictionaries, how would I access them since I don't have anything with touch jesters, I use the keyboard for everything. Any help you could send my way would be great. Thank you.







how to fix pronouncing abbreviations in NVDA?

Sue J. Ward
 

Hello. I was wondering whenever NVDA comes across abbreviations it kind of mispronounces them. For example instead of sd, it says South Dakota. I want it to say the letters sd even if sd is in all caps. Another one is instead of HP, it says horse power. It is quite annoying. If I come across these types of things I have to go back and double check as to what I am reading, I would really like to fix this. How would I do this since I did read something about this in the speech dictionaries, how would I access them since I don't have anything with touch jesters, I use the keyboard for everything. Any help you could send my way would be great. Thank you.


NVDA2022.1RC2 Silent Start Button?

Jason Bratcher
 
Edited

I just installed RC2 of 2022.1.
Upon focusing the Start button, NVDA says nothing and goes silent.
In addition, if I shift+Tab back to the desktop listview of icons, it says nothing, but focus indeed moves between them.
Highlighting an icon and right-clicking it for a menu still has NVDA silent.
RC1 did not do this on my HP DQ1038WM with the Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-1005G1 CPU @ 1.20GHz, 1201 Mhz, 2 Core(s), 4 Logical Processor(s).
Strange indeed.
But when I then focus back onto the taskbar/notification area,
NvDA starts talking again, as if nothing was wrong.


Re: for the third time, filling out a PDF

 

On Thu, May 19, 2022 at 03:29 PM, Dave Grossoehme wrote:
Is acrobat any better than adobe reader d.c. for this kind of action?  [Which I'm presuming is the filling out of correctly created fillable PDF forms.]
-
No.

Acrobat is, for most of us, cost prohibitive an most of us are not creating PDFs from scratch that require the bells and whistles in Adobe Acrobat, which is the granddaddy of all PDF editing software.

Adobe Reader has always worked just fine for filling out forms.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


Re: for the third time, filling out a PDF

Dave Grossoehme
 

Is acrobat any better than adobe reader d.c. for this kind of action?

Dave


On 5/19/2022 10:23 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Thu, May 19, 2022 at 01:32 AM, Gene wrote:
I really like Edge for straight reading of text but it isn't good for more complex tasks.
-
Precisely.

If you intend to use actual fillable PDF forms, you really should be using Adobe Reader DC, Acrobat, or a dedicated PDF reader or editor that supports fillable PDFs.

Personally, and this is because of just this sort of thing, I refuse to allow browsers to open PDF files internally.  I have Firefox, Edge, Brave, and Vivaldi all set up such that PDF files are handed off to the PDF Viewer of my choosing and opened in it.   For me this is a classic "tool to task" kinda thing.  It's no different than having Word open up MS-Word file types that I might encounter somewhere on the web (and where I trust the source).
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


Re: accessibility of Libre Office

JM Casey
 

Besides, I think it's only the database component of Libre that requires
Java Runtime.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard B.
McDonald
Sent: May 17, 2022 10:25 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] accessibility of Libre Office

Hi Luke!

I did not know this. I stand corrected. Thanks for letting me know of
this!

Bye,
Richard

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke Davis
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2022 1:25 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] accessibility of Libre Office

Richard B. McDonald wrote:

Make sure that you have installed and are always running the Java
Access
Bridge.

Do you still find that necessary? NVDA has included JAVA Access Bridge for
about two and a half years now. My understanding is that you shouldn't need
to take any action. If you do, perhaps a bug report is in order.

From the 2019.3 changelog:

- The Java Access Bridge is now included with NVDA to enable access to Java
applications, including for 64 bit Java VMs. (#7724)
- If the Java Access Bridge is not enabled for the user, NVDA automatically
enables it at NVDA startup. (#7952)

Luke


Re: Windows mail with NVDA usable?

hurrikennyandopo ...
 

Hi


Not sure if you are aware there is a tutorial for the windows mail program on my website. The following link will put you on the page where it is at http://accessibilitycentral.net/nvda%20tutorials%20for%20other%20programs.html

When you get to it jump down by headings  until you hear the one for the windows mail app.



I also have one for mozilla thunder bird at

http://accessibilitycentral.net/accessible%20email%20client%20mozilla%20thunderbird.html

Any of the nvda tutorials can be gotten to from any of there pages unlike the blindness related stuff.

Hope it helps.


Gene nz

On 19/05/2022 8:24 pm, Daniel Sommerfeld wrote:
Hi all.


I have tried Windows mail with NVDA and it seems to me, that it is not usable.


Is it really not usable or is that a microsoft app thing. Means, do i have to download it from a different source to get an accessible version?


Regards

Daniel





Re: Windows mail with NVDA usable?

Luke Davis
 

Daniel Sommerfeld wrote:

As i said, i don't even get to the account setup settings because with NVDA i seem to have a bluescreen. A sighted person could see all the things but that doesn't really help me.
Please try running the COM Registration Fixing tool in NVDA's tools menu (NVDA+N, T, R, Enter).

That may help with this and it won't hurt anything to try.

Then restart the machine and try with mail again.

Oh, and you shouldn't need to type "windows mail", just "mail".

Lastly: I agree with the others--use something else if you can. But still try the above tool, because if it would have fixed anything, it means other things are probably not as accessible as they could be.

Luke


Re: for the third time, filling out a PDF

Chris Smart
 

We keep asking for the actual file, and Bob doesn't supply it.
I can only assume it contains top secret information about an impending alien invasion or something. 😊

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nermin via groups.io
Sent: May 19, 2022 12:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] for the third time, filling out a PDF

Hi, Bob,


Is there a link to the file you're trying to fill out?

Don't make assumptions, just because the files in question act the same way for you.

What if the file you are having issues with works on my system?


Regards,

Nermin


Re: for the third time, filling out a PDF

Nermin
 

Hi, Bob,


Is there a link to the file you're trying to fill out?

Don't make assumptions, just because the files in question act the same way for you.

What if the file you are having issues with works on my system?


Regards,

Nermin


Re: for the third time, filling out a PDF

Bob Cavanaugh
 

Brian,
Is there a difference between Adobe Acrobat and Acrobat Reader DC? If
so, I am actually using DC.
Gene, your thoughts were mine exactly before about three months ago.
When I got this computer for Christmas, I didn't put Acrobat on it for
the first three months because I had found that Firefox rendered most
PDF files fine up until I found one that needed to be filled. If it
would work properly, I think PDF files that can be filled are much
easier to work with than those that need to be printed and filled out
by hand.
Re: sending the file. The reason I've refused to do so is because I'm
working with one, but have another I can test with, a third I opened
just for the heck of it, and the two Brian has sent, which all render
the same way. So, it's not an issue with the individual file.

On 5/19/22, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
On Thu, May 19, 2022 at 01:32 AM, Gene wrote:


I really like Edge for straight reading of text but it isn't good for
more
complex tasks.
-
Precisely.

If you intend to use actual fillable PDF forms, you really should be using
Adobe Reader DC, Acrobat, or a dedicated PDF reader or editor that supports
fillable PDFs.

Personally, and this is because of just this sort of thing, I refuse to
allow browsers to open PDF files internally. I have Firefox, Edge, Brave,
and Vivaldi all set up such that PDF files are handed off to the PDF Viewer
of my choosing and opened in it. For me this is a classic "tool to task"
kinda thing. It's no different than having Word open up MS-Word file types
that I might encounter somewhere on the web (and where I trust the source).
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

*You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by
ignoring them.
* ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed






Re: for the third time, filling out a PDF

 

On Thu, May 19, 2022 at 10:46 AM, Gene wrote:
the reformatting of documents Acrobat does takes much longer than what Edge does about reformatting, if it does anything and for reading long documents, its faster for me as a blind person to use Edge.
-
Gene,

Note, I constantly say, "tool to task."  That applies to everyone, not just me.   And if straight reading is what you are doing the vast majority of the time, the tool that's right for you is not necessarily the same one that's right for me.

Each user has to think about what their usual work tasks are for any given thing, and base their choices upon that.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed

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