Date   

Re: for the third time, filling out a PDF

 

Bob,

For the love of heaven, if you think this is an NVDA problem, then get yourself over to GitHub, check if any related open issues exist, and comment on them if they do.  If not, then create a new issue.

Be sure you have done the requested diagnostic steps first, as these often solve problems.

Did you ever run the Adobe Accessibility Wizard?
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


Re: for the third time, filling out a PDF

Bob Cavanaugh
 

This is true, you can't fill out a form in browse mode or whatever
JAWS calls it. However, on a webpage, unless there's something very
strange about the way the form is set up, I can have NVDA in browse
mode, tab through the page, and it will automatically switch to focus
mode when it finds a form entry. This is what I'd expect in Adobe as
well. The fact that this behavior is different in Adobe is what has
generated now 72 messages to this list, which is more than enough for
a ticket.

On 5/20/22, Chris Smart <ve3rwj@...> wrote:
Focus mode is how I've always filled out forms, be they HTML or PDF. (That's
Forms Mode for the Jaws folks)



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Cavanaugh
Sent: May 20, 2022 1:55 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] for the third time, filling out a PDF

Thanks all for your help. I did as you suggested, putting NVDA in focus mode
and was able to tab through and fill out the form, also being able to see
what I was writing. Perhaps a Guithub issue should be created for this, as
this is not expected behavior, and generated nearly 40 messages to this list
before that solution was arrived at.

On 5/20/22, Chris Smart <ve3rwj@...> wrote:
That was probably a trial of Acrobat pro. Just say no to that.
I have Adobe Acrobat Reader DC, Version: 22.1.20117.0 I installed it
yesterday.



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert
Doc Wright godfearer
Sent: May 20, 2022 2:18 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] for the third time, filling out a PDF

Which version of Acrobat reader DC are you using? When I tried to edit
a field it wanted me to start the trial.
On 5/19/2022 7:47 PM, Chris Smart wrote:
With Acrobat Reader DC, I was able to press NVDA+Space on the first
edit field to go into Focus Mode, type my first name in the field,
then tab through and hear all other fields. I didn't bother filling them
out.
I didn't examine the form in detail, but there appear to be ten
unlabeled checkboxes at the end. If I had examined those in browse
Mode, I may have been able to determine what they were fore, but I
did not hear that as I tabbed through them.

But, yes, I was able to hear the names of and fill in edit fields as
I tabbed.

I also tried Jaws, and the overall experience was smoother, but I am
also more familiar with that screenreader.

So yes, I am quite confident I would be able to fill out that form
and email it back.
Chris






--
******
Sometimes I think I understand everything, and then I regain
consciousness.
---------
Family Times theatre
http://familytimes.wrighthere.net:9244/stream
or ask your smart speaker to play family times on tune-in























Re: for the third time, filling out a PDF

Chris Smart
 

Focus mode is how I've always filled out forms, be they HTML or PDF. (That's Forms Mode for the Jaws folks)

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Cavanaugh
Sent: May 20, 2022 1:55 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] for the third time, filling out a PDF

Thanks all for your help. I did as you suggested, putting NVDA in focus mode and was able to tab through and fill out the form, also being able to see what I was writing. Perhaps a Guithub issue should be created for this, as this is not expected behavior, and generated nearly 40 messages to this list before that solution was arrived at.

On 5/20/22, Chris Smart <ve3rwj@...> wrote:
That was probably a trial of Acrobat pro. Just say no to that.
I have Adobe Acrobat Reader DC, Version: 22.1.20117.0 I installed it
yesterday.



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert
Doc Wright godfearer
Sent: May 20, 2022 2:18 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] for the third time, filling out a PDF

Which version of Acrobat reader DC are you using? When I tried to edit
a field it wanted me to start the trial.
On 5/19/2022 7:47 PM, Chris Smart wrote:
With Acrobat Reader DC, I was able to press NVDA+Space on the first
edit field to go into Focus Mode, type my first name in the field,
then tab through and hear all other fields. I didn't bother filling them out.
I didn't examine the form in detail, but there appear to be ten
unlabeled checkboxes at the end. If I had examined those in browse
Mode, I may have been able to determine what they were fore, but I
did not hear that as I tabbed through them.

But, yes, I was able to hear the names of and fill in edit fields as
I tabbed.

I also tried Jaws, and the overall experience was smoother, but I am
also more familiar with that screenreader.

So yes, I am quite confident I would be able to fill out that form
and email it back.
Chris






--
******
Sometimes I think I understand everything, and then I regain
consciousness.
---------
Family Times theatre
http://familytimes.wrighthere.net:9244/stream
or ask your smart speaker to play family times on tune-in













Re: for the third time, filling out a PDF

Bob Cavanaugh
 

Okay, take that back, this message is #70 in this thread. I think 70
messages on a single topic warrants a ticket.

On 5/20/22, Bob Cavanaugh via groups.io <cavbob1993@...> wrote:
Thanks all for your help. I did as you suggested, putting NVDA in
focus mode and was able to tab through and fill out the form, also
being able to see what I was writing. Perhaps a Guithub issue should
be created for this, as this is not expected behavior, and generated
nearly 40 messages to this list before that solution was arrived at.

On 5/20/22, Chris Smart <ve3rwj@...> wrote:
That was probably a trial of Acrobat pro. Just say no to that.
I have Adobe Acrobat Reader DC, Version: 22.1.20117.0
I installed it yesterday.



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert Doc
Wright godfearer
Sent: May 20, 2022 2:18 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] for the third time, filling out a PDF

Which version of Acrobat reader DC are you using? When I tried to edit a
field it wanted me to start the trial.
On 5/19/2022 7:47 PM, Chris Smart wrote:
With Acrobat Reader DC, I was able to press NVDA+Space on the first edit
field to go into Focus Mode, type my first name in the field, then tab
through and hear all other fields. I didn't bother filling them out.
I didn't examine the form in detail, but there appear to be ten
unlabeled
checkboxes at the end. If I had examined those in browse Mode, I may
have
been able to determine what they were fore, but I did not hear that as I
tabbed through them.

But, yes, I was able to hear the names of and fill in edit fields as I
tabbed.

I also tried Jaws, and the overall experience was smoother, but I am
also
more familiar with that screenreader.

So yes, I am quite confident I would be able to fill out that form and
email it back.
Chris






--
******
Sometimes I think I understand everything, and then I regain
consciousness.
---------
Family Times theatre
http://familytimes.wrighthere.net:9244/stream
or ask your smart speaker to play family times on tune-in

















Re: for the third time, filling out a PDF

Bob Cavanaugh
 

Thanks all for your help. I did as you suggested, putting NVDA in
focus mode and was able to tab through and fill out the form, also
being able to see what I was writing. Perhaps a Guithub issue should
be created for this, as this is not expected behavior, and generated
nearly 40 messages to this list before that solution was arrived at.

On 5/20/22, Chris Smart <ve3rwj@...> wrote:
That was probably a trial of Acrobat pro. Just say no to that.
I have Adobe Acrobat Reader DC, Version: 22.1.20117.0
I installed it yesterday.



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert Doc
Wright godfearer
Sent: May 20, 2022 2:18 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] for the third time, filling out a PDF

Which version of Acrobat reader DC are you using? When I tried to edit a
field it wanted me to start the trial.
On 5/19/2022 7:47 PM, Chris Smart wrote:
With Acrobat Reader DC, I was able to press NVDA+Space on the first edit
field to go into Focus Mode, type my first name in the field, then tab
through and hear all other fields. I didn't bother filling them out.
I didn't examine the form in detail, but there appear to be ten unlabeled
checkboxes at the end. If I had examined those in browse Mode, I may have
been able to determine what they were fore, but I did not hear that as I
tabbed through them.

But, yes, I was able to hear the names of and fill in edit fields as I
tabbed.

I also tried Jaws, and the overall experience was smoother, but I am also
more familiar with that screenreader.

So yes, I am quite confident I would be able to fill out that form and
email it back.
Chris






--
******
Sometimes I think I understand everything, and then I regain
consciousness.
---------
Family Times theatre
http://familytimes.wrighthere.net:9244/stream
or ask your smart speaker to play family times on tune-in













Re: NVDA with WhatsApp.

Sarah k Alawami
 

No need to use yrou phone, use obs to record directg from from the pc. . I can if I'm not too busy do one later today. As I have a lot of issues, not as many as you do as I sort of know the kinks. I will send you the final result off list.


Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. .

For more info go to our website. . to subscribe to the feed click here

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on youtube, twitch and odysee. Thanks Restream staff.

Videos of some of our podcasts can be found on odysee

You can support the podcast by subscribing via the tip jar. You will get early access episodes plus no adds. If you cannot do that, then leave a 5 star rating on our podcast using your podcast directory's rating system.

On 20 May 2022, at 8:05, Ravindran V.S. wrote:

Hello Team,
Greetings!
NVDA accessibility with the What's App desktop application is very poor as at now.
As suggested by the NVDA Team earlier, I contacted the WA Support Team and they are very positive to improve on this area.
However, they requested me to send a video demo of the way it works in the desktop.
But, my several attempts to record the issues in short videos did not work. For some reason even videos of 7 minutes or 5 minutes could not be sent from my phone.
In the initial page, NVDA just says "Button" without the labels."
Also, opening any attachments, video or audio is not simple with a click.
Scrolling through the chat list is also a concern as at now.
There may be more.
Therefore, would someone here with technical expertise be able to do a video recording and send to the WA Support Team as the accessibility issues please?
Thank you, have a pleasant day!
Ravi.


Re: NVDA with WhatsApp.

 

The following 30 minute YouTube tutorial, How to access whatsapp in laptop or desktop using NVDA screen reader by Saagar SK, may prove helpful to you.  It dates from the end of 2021, so isn't very old.

The tutorial narration is not in English.  I am not "good enough" with the languages of India to say which one it actually is.  NVDA itself is announcing in English throughout.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


NVDA with WhatsApp.

Ravindran V.S.
 

Hello Team,
Greetings!
NVDA accessibility with the What's App desktop application is very poor as at now.
As suggested by the NVDA Team earlier, I contacted the WA Support Team and they are very positive to improve on this area.
However, they requested me to send a video demo of the way it works in the desktop.
But, my several attempts to record the issues in short videos did not work. For some reason even videos of 7 minutes or 5 minutes could not be sent from my phone.
In the initial page, NVDA just says "Button" without the labels."
Also, opening any attachments, video or audio is not simple with a click.
Scrolling through the chat list is also a concern as at now.
There may be more.
Therefore, would someone here with technical expertise be able to do a video recording and send to the WA Support Team as the accessibility issues please?
Thank you, have a pleasant day!
Ravi.


Re: Windows mail with NVDA usable?

Pramit
 

Hi Daniel,

I am using thunderbird on NVDA and never find any issues.
It really works very well.  


On Thu, May 19, 2022 at 1:55 PM Daniel Sommerfeld <dani.sommerfeld@...> wrote:
Hi all.


I have tried Windows mail with NVDA and it seems to me, that it is not
usable.


Is it really not usable or is that a microsoft app thing. Means, do i
have to download it from a different source to get an accessible version?


Regards

Daniel







Re: for the third time, filling out a PDF

Chris Smart
 

That was probably a trial of Acrobat pro. Just say no to that.
I have Adobe Acrobat Reader DC, Version: 22.1.20117.0
I installed it yesterday.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert Doc Wright godfearer
Sent: May 20, 2022 2:18 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] for the third time, filling out a PDF

Which version of Acrobat reader DC are you using? When I tried to edit a field it wanted me to start the trial.
On 5/19/2022 7:47 PM, Chris Smart wrote:
With Acrobat Reader DC, I was able to press NVDA+Space on the first edit field to go into Focus Mode, type my first name in the field, then tab through and hear all other fields. I didn't bother filling them out.
I didn't examine the form in detail, but there appear to be ten unlabeled checkboxes at the end. If I had examined those in browse Mode, I may have been able to determine what they were fore, but I did not hear that as I tabbed through them.

But, yes, I was able to hear the names of and fill in edit fields as I tabbed.

I also tried Jaws, and the overall experience was smoother, but I am also more familiar with that screenreader.

So yes, I am quite confident I would be able to fill out that form and email it back.
Chris






--
******
Sometimes I think I understand everything, and then I regain consciousness.
---------
Family Times theatre
http://familytimes.wrighthere.net:9244/stream
or ask your smart speaker to play family times on tune-in


Re: NVDA2022.1RC2 Silent Start Button?

 

I'm thinking of switching to a different one mimicking the Windows 10 taskbar proper entirely after an uninstall of this first.
And even ran the Com Registration to make sure things were still okay.
Jason Bratcher


Re: for the third time, filling out a PDF

Robert Doc Wright godfearer
 

Which version of Acrobat reader DC are you using? When I tried to edit a field it wanted me to start the trial.

On 5/19/2022 7:47 PM, Chris Smart wrote:
With Acrobat Reader DC, I was able to press NVDA+Space on the first edit field to go into Focus Mode, type my first name in the field, then tab through and hear all other fields. I didn't bother filling them out.
I didn't examine the form in detail, but there appear to be ten unlabeled checkboxes at the end. If I had examined those in browse Mode, I may have been able to determine what they were fore, but I did not hear that as I tabbed through them.

But, yes, I was able to hear the names of and fill in edit fields as I tabbed.

I also tried Jaws, and the overall experience was smoother, but I am also more familiar with that screenreader.

So yes, I am quite confident I would be able to fill out that form and email it back.
Chris





--
******
Sometimes I think I understand everything, and then I regain consciousness.
---------
Family Times theatre
http://familytimes.wrighthere.net:9244/stream
or ask your smart speaker to play family times on tune-in


Re: for the third time, filling out a PDF

Gene
 

I didn't say you couldn't.  You were in focus mode, not browse mode.  But you couldn't move through the form, read any text that wasn't directly associated with an edit field or a check box, go into focus mode, fill something in, then continue down the form and read any text other than that associated with an input field.

That is as inadequate as though you could only tab through a web page form and hear the input fields.  You have no idea what information you might be missing and how important it may be.

Gene.

On 5/19/2022 9:09 PM, Chris Smart wrote:

Why was I able to press NVDA+Space and tab through then, hearing various fields and filling in text if I wanted to?

 

This was on Windows 10 and NVDA 2022.1-RC2.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: May 19, 2022 10:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] for the third time, filling out a PDF

 

Yes, you can go into forms mode and tab around.  You can't tab in browse mode nor enter text in the correct places.  NVDA doesn't work correctly with Acrobat when filling out this form nor the 1040 form Brian sent. 

Gene

On 5/19/2022 8:47 PM, Chris Smart wrote:

With Acrobat Reader DC, I was able to press NVDA+Space on the first edit field to go into Focus Mode, type my first name in the field, then tab through and hear all other fields. I didn't bother filling them out.
I didn't examine the form in detail, but there appear to be ten unlabeled checkboxes at the end. If I had examined those in browse Mode, I may have been able to determine what they were fore, but I did not hear that as I tabbed through them.
 
But, yes, I was able to hear the names of and fill in edit fields as I tabbed.
 
I also tried Jaws, and the overall experience was smoother, but I am also more familiar with that screenreader.
 
So yes, I am quite confident I would be able to fill out that form and email it back.
Chris
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 



Re: for the third time, filling out a PDF

Chris Smart
 

Why was I able to press NVDA+Space and tab through then, hearing various fields and filling in text if I wanted to?

 

This was on Windows 10 and NVDA 2022.1-RC2.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: May 19, 2022 10:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] for the third time, filling out a PDF

 

Yes, you can go into forms mode and tab around.  You can't tab in browse mode nor enter text in the correct places.  NVDA doesn't work correctly with Acrobat when filling out this form nor the 1040 form Brian sent. 

Gene

On 5/19/2022 8:47 PM, Chris Smart wrote:

With Acrobat Reader DC, I was able to press NVDA+Space on the first edit field to go into Focus Mode, type my first name in the field, then tab through and hear all other fields. I didn't bother filling them out.
I didn't examine the form in detail, but there appear to be ten unlabeled checkboxes at the end. If I had examined those in browse Mode, I may have been able to determine what they were fore, but I did not hear that as I tabbed through them.
 
But, yes, I was able to hear the names of and fill in edit fields as I tabbed.
 
I also tried Jaws, and the overall experience was smoother, but I am also more familiar with that screenreader.
 
So yes, I am quite confident I would be able to fill out that form and email it back.
Chris
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 


Re: for the third time, filling out a PDF

Gene
 

Yes, you can go into forms mode and tab around.  You can't tab in browse mode nor enter text in the correct places.  NVDA doesn't work correctly with Acrobat when filling out this form nor the 1040 form Brian sent. 

Gene

On 5/19/2022 8:47 PM, Chris Smart wrote:

With Acrobat Reader DC, I was able to press NVDA+Space on the first edit field to go into Focus Mode, type my first name in the field, then tab through and hear all other fields. I didn't bother filling them out.
I didn't examine the form in detail, but there appear to be ten unlabeled checkboxes at the end. If I had examined those in browse Mode, I may have been able to determine what they were fore, but I did not hear that as I tabbed through them.

But, yes, I was able to hear the names of and fill in edit fields as I tabbed.

I also tried Jaws, and the overall experience was smoother, but I am also more familiar with that screenreader.

So yes, I am quite confident I would be able to fill out that form and email it back.
Chris









Re: for the third time, filling out a PDF

Gene
 

Also, and I didn't make this clear in my last message, when I am in browse mode, get to an edit field, press enter to write, since I have automatic switching off, and write, I don't see any text.  Whether I am writing somewhere else or nowhere, I don't know,  I suspect that browse mode isn't lining up with the underlying page.

Also, on my windows 7 machine, the form works properly in Adobe.  It appears there is something in Windows 10 and 11 that keeps NVDA from working properly with some or perhaps all fillable Adobe documents using Adobe. 

I changed all settings for UIA events and that accomplished nothing.  It appears something needs to be changed in NVDA to allow it to work properly with fillable PDF forms using Adobe.

Gene

On 5/19/2022 8:41 PM, Gene via groups.io wrote:

Here are my results using the form you linked to.

You may be entering text when you turn browse mode off but not where you think you are.  Browse mode isn't lining up with the underlying document.
If you turn browse mode off, tab to an edit field and write something, you can read it.

I also can't tab around the document you sent unless browse mode is off.  Being in browse mode, I should be able to up and down arrow and tab.

I tried JAWS and it works properly with the form.

System Access doesn't work properly with this form.  We don't know if it will with the specific form you are using.  You can try it or JAWS.

Just to fill out the form, you will have to learn little or almost nothing about JAWS.

Gene
On 5/19/2022 7:07 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Have you tried any of Brian's forms, and how are they working for you?
The form I'm trying to fill out is one that I'm not sure if I can post
a link to publicly, as it's a form I need to fill out in order to
dispute a credit card transaction. The other form I've been using to
test is a training agreement I was sent from an instructor of a class
I took years ago, and I doubt is publicly accessible. The form I've
been testing with before downloading Brian's forms is at
https://nwaba.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/sal_fillable_lending_form_2019_08_22_final.pdf

On 5/19/22, Nermin via groups.io <voy44@...> wrote:
Hi, Bob,


Is there a link to the file you're trying to fill out?

Don't make assumptions, just because the files in question act the same
way for you.

What if the file you are having issues with works on my system?


Regards,

Nermin



















Re: for the third time, filling out a PDF

Chris Smart
 

With Acrobat Reader DC, I was able to press NVDA+Space on the first edit field to go into Focus Mode, type my first name in the field, then tab through and hear all other fields. I didn't bother filling them out.
I didn't examine the form in detail, but there appear to be ten unlabeled checkboxes at the end. If I had examined those in browse Mode, I may have been able to determine what they were fore, but I did not hear that as I tabbed through them.

But, yes, I was able to hear the names of and fill in edit fields as I tabbed.

I also tried Jaws, and the overall experience was smoother, but I am also more familiar with that screenreader.

So yes, I am quite confident I would be able to fill out that form and email it back.
Chris


Re: for the third time, filling out a PDF

Gene
 

Here are my results using the form you linked to.

You may be entering text when you turn browse mode off but not where you think you are.  Browse mode isn't lining up with the underlying document.
If you turn browse mode off, tab to an edit field and write something, you can read it.

I also can't tab around the document you sent unless browse mode is off.  Being in browse mode, I should be able to up and down arrow and tab.

I tried JAWS and it works properly with the form.

System Access doesn't work properly with this form.  We don't know if it will with the specific form you are using.  You can try it or JAWS.

Just to fill out the form, you will have to learn little or almost nothing about JAWS.

Gene

On 5/19/2022 7:07 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Have you tried any of Brian's forms, and how are they working for you?
The form I'm trying to fill out is one that I'm not sure if I can post
a link to publicly, as it's a form I need to fill out in order to
dispute a credit card transaction. The other form I've been using to
test is a training agreement I was sent from an instructor of a class
I took years ago, and I doubt is publicly accessible. The form I've
been testing with before downloading Brian's forms is at
https://nwaba.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/sal_fillable_lending_form_2019_08_22_final.pdf

On 5/19/22, Nermin via groups.io <voy44@...> wrote:
Hi, Bob,


Is there a link to the file you're trying to fill out?

Don't make assumptions, just because the files in question act the same
way for you.

What if the file you are having issues with works on my system?


Regards,

Nermin








Re: NVDA2022.1RC2 Silent Start Button?

Quentin Christensen
 

Glad you got to the bottom of it - hopefully you can get that explorer software to work (or get the dev to update it at least).

All the best

Quentin.

On Fri, May 20, 2022 at 9:27 AM Jason Bratcher <imcoocoo@...> wrote:
Yes. After getting the update, I even did a shut down by accident to
force me to cold start away, lol!
(Windows+X, U, U).
Fast fingers...
I may need to write the developer of a piece of software called Explorer
Patcher just to let him know about this
(that his Windows 10 taskbar code writing causes this hiccup in NVDA).
But switching the taskbar style to Windows 11 and NVDA behaves perfect.
I've just been so used to the Windows 10 taskbar for so long that the 11
one feels funky.
(I.E., the user-promoted notification area only lets you move through
its items when you use left or up arrow keys.
To see the other notification items, you're forced to right arrow
(Whereas in Windows 10 you could actually use all 4 arrow keys to move
equally among the notifications..

Even tried a System restore just to be sure I reboot.
Jason Bratcher







--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: how to fix pronouncing abbreviations in NVDA?

Quentin Christensen
 

Oh I didn't necessarily mean "try to be clever" sarcastically.  There are plenty of good examples of algorithms deciphering some complex meaning out of something.  In the case of abbreviations, it's tricky both because there can be multiple meanings of any given abbreviation and how do you know exactly which one is being referred to, and there is often not enough context to determine, even if the synthesizer was programmed to be able to tell.  I don't *think* any of them are, but in any case, reading with "say all" could theoretically work, but if you are moving word by word, then all the synthesizer would be passed is "Dr." - without any surrounding text, it's impossible to know if the meaning is "Drive" (as in the street type) or "Doctor", so in that case, it is usually better to just read the two letters (with or without the dot depending on punctuation).

The thing which makes it particularly frustrating, is that there is no way to tell the synthesizer what you want - whether you want it to make those guesses about meaning or not.  It would be really great if there was a flag we could pass it which said "make your best guess as to meaning" or "simply read the exact text passed and do not change anything" - at least if that was the case we could add an option to the voice settings and users could make their own decision.

As it is, all we can do now is use the speech dictionary to override what gets sent to the synthesizer to try to correct assumptions if they are wrong.

Even in the case of numbers, yes we know users want more control over that, and we do have at least one open issue for it, and it should be theoretically possible (I haven't looked at what technical blockers there are currently, if any) - but again, all we can do is give you the opportunity to make a blanket ruling about how you want numbers pronounced.  We can't choose, if it's a zip / post code do this, if it's a phone number, do that, if it's my bank balance (well ok, it's going to read single digits for that anyway! *grin*)...

Quentin.

On Fri, May 20, 2022 at 9:05 AM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
On Thu, May 19, 2022 at 06:28 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
NVDA passes the information on to the synthesizer, as it sees it ("sd" or "SD" in this case), it is up to the synth to work out how to pronounce it and unfortunately they often try to be clever and work out what abbreviations are rather than simply saying what is presented.
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Quentin,

Not to argue with you (as what you say is accurate), but I don't consider it "being clever" for a synth to try to work out what unpronouncable character sequences might mean, and pronounce the meaning, rather than always doing a character by character reading.

To me, any of the 2-character US State abbreviations are more likely to make the most sense when announced as their state names rather than the two characters.  There are, of course, exceptions.

We see the same sort of thing when it comes to numbers.  I'd rather hear fifteen pronounced as such rather than one five.  But there are definitely contexts where huge numbers are in constant use where it's more handy to have them announced digit-by-digit, which can be achieved, but that would be the exception case rather than the rule when handed to something to pronounce.  

And, of course, context always matters.  In the case of numbers, US ZIP Codes as well as Social Security Numbers are never pronounced by human readers as a numeric value, but as a digit sequence.

Synth writers are trying to apply certain rules about what to pronounce how, and when, based on how it's generally done by most speakers.  Mistakes are, of course, inevitable, and that's the beauty of dictionaries to be able to handle these mistakes on a case-by-case or, in the case of regular expressions, class-by-class, basis.
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Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed



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Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

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