Date   

Re: NVDA with WhatsApp.

Sim Kah Yong
 

Hi, have you tried the Whatsapp desktop add-on?

You can find it at this site:

https://nvda-addons.org/

Hope this help.

On 20/5/2022 11:05 pm, Ravindran V.S. wrote:
Hello Team,
Greetings!
NVDA accessibility with the What's App desktop application is very poor as at now.
As suggested by the NVDA Team earlier, I contacted the WA Support Team and they are very positive to improve on this area.
However, they requested me to send a video demo of the way it works in the desktop.
But, my several attempts to record the issues in short videos did not work. For some reason even videos of 7 minutes or 5 minutes could not be sent from my phone.
In the initial page, NVDA just says "Button" without the labels."
Also, opening any attachments, video or audio is not simple with a click.
Scrolling through the chat list is also a concern as at now.
There may be more.
Therefore, would someone here with technical expertise be able to do a video recording and send to the WA Support Team as the accessibility issues please?
Thank you, have a pleasant day!
Ravi.





Re: for the third time, filling out a PDF

Carlos Medrano
 

Yes; it still takes time to process. The painful part is that sometimes either the setup assistant dialogue that allows you to select the reading order or the progress indicator dialogue doesn't come into focus, so NVDA is in the parent window somehow I think.


I don't know of any other way other than turning on mouse tracking and clicking in the middle of the dialogue to let me use the keyboard.


- Carlos


On 5/20/2022 4:12 PM, Luke Davis wrote:
Brian Vogel wrote:

But whatever is happening it is NOT fast.  I can play around for at least 1 minute, possibly somewhat longer, whether via point and click or using tab to
move among the various fields.  Then, after waiting for a while, suddenly tabbing between the fields gives the field label, including the colon that's a
part of each label, when you land in the various fields.Very strange.  No rational person would expect a lag like this between opening a document and being
able to use it with a screen reader sans any sort of warning that they needed to wait for something to finish before they start.

Brian. There used to be some sort of delay, when the accessibility wizard was running, that asked you to wait while Adobe prepared the document for accessibility, or some such.
I used to have problems with NVDA crashing while this was happening on one of my machines, and the document still not being accessible upon restart. (It may have taken Acrobat with it, if I recall, but it's been a few years).

It was the main reason I ditched Adobe products for handling PDFs, and went mostly with Edge.

Are you saying that "preparation delay" no longer happens, but that it is effectively happening in the background?

Luke






Re: for the third time, filling out a PDF

Luke Davis
 

Brian Vogel wrote:

But whatever is happening it is NOT fast.  I can play around for at least 1 minute, possibly somewhat longer, whether via point and click or using tab to
move among the various fields.  Then, after waiting for a while, suddenly tabbing between the fields gives the field label, including the colon that's a
part of each label, when you land in the various fields.Very strange.  No rational person would expect a lag like this between opening a document and being
able to use it with a screen reader sans any sort of warning that they needed to wait for something to finish before they start.
Brian. There used to be some sort of delay, when the accessibility wizard was running, that asked you to wait while Adobe prepared the document for accessibility, or some such.
I used to have problems with NVDA crashing while this was happening on one of my machines, and the document still not being accessible upon restart. (It may have taken Acrobat with it, if I recall, but it's been a few years).

It was the main reason I ditched Adobe products for handling PDFs, and went mostly with Edge.

Are you saying that "preparation delay" no longer happens, but that it is effectively happening in the background?

Luke


Re: for the third time, filling out a PDF

Luke Davis
 

Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

ticket, which I will probably get to early next week if nobody else
wants to tackle it first, would be because I would expect NVDA to
behave the same way when filling out a form in Adobe Reader as it does
when in a web browser, which it currently does not.
If I understand you correctly, the approximate thrust/title of your issue would be:

When Automatic Focus Mode for Focus Changes is selected, focus mode is not automatically entered for form fields in Adobe Acrobat DC

If that is your issue, you are now best positioned to demonstrate it with a debug level log, and a sample PDF, uploaded to the bug issue.
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/new/choose

Luke


Re: for the third time, filling out a PDF

 

Well, when I open the form Bob gave the link for, I eventually end up having it act just like any random web form would in terms of tabbing through the form fields.  There are also a number of checkboxes to indicate a given piece of equipment in the list has been returned and these are on the second page of the form.

But note well, I said "eventually."  I can't make any sense of what's going on, and am not getting any useful status either from Adobe or from NVDA with regard to whether there is background processing going on by the Accessibility Wizard to hand information to NVDA that it would not otherwise have.  But whatever is happening it is NOT fast.  I can play around for at least 1 minute, possibly somewhat longer, whether via point and click or using tab to move among the various fields.  Then, after waiting for a while, suddenly tabbing between the fields gives the field label, including the colon that's a part of each label, when you land in the various fields.

Very strange.  No rational person would expect a lag like this between opening a document and being able to use it with a screen reader sans any sort of warning that they needed to wait for something to finish before they start.

I am using Windows 10, Version 21H2, Build 19044.1076
Adobe Reader DC 2022.001.20117
NVDA 2021.3.5
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


Re: for the third time, filling out a PDF

Sarah k Alawami
 

Well I have auto focus mode turned off, however some sites do not honor that such as trail head. I myself will have to do some playing as well.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Cavanaugh
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2022 3:22 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] for the third time, filling out a PDF

I don't think the form that initially started this discussion has any checkboxes, but I will look into that when I fill it out in a bit, I need to get some other work done first. I have yet to try it with the form I linked to last night, but if those on this list are really interested, I'll try it for you. The solution both Chris and Gene came up with is completely valid, and I thank both of you for that. The ticket, which I will probably get to early next week if nobody else wants to tackle it first, would be because I would expect NVDA to behave the same way when filling out a form in Adobe Reader as it does when in a web browser, which it currently does not.
On 5/20/22, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
On Fri, May 20, 2022 at 03:22 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:


everything worked as described.
-
Bob,

By that do you mean that you are able to tab your way through the
user-editable (whether checking unchecking, entering text, etc.) form
controls while using Adobe Reader DC?

If so, it sounds like the presenting problem is solved.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

*You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by
ignoring them.
* ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed






Re: for the third time, filling out a PDF

Bob Cavanaugh
 

I don't think the form that initially started this discussion has any
checkboxes, but I will look into that when I fill it out in a bit, I
need to get some other work done first. I have yet to try it with the
form I linked to last night, but if those on this list are really
interested, I'll try it for you. The solution both Chris and Gene came
up with is completely valid, and I thank both of you for that. The
ticket, which I will probably get to early next week if nobody else
wants to tackle it first, would be because I would expect NVDA to
behave the same way when filling out a form in Adobe Reader as it does
when in a web browser, which it currently does not.

On 5/20/22, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
On Fri, May 20, 2022 at 03:22 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:


everything worked as described.
-
Bob,

By that do you mean that you are able to tab your way through the
user-editable (whether checking unchecking, entering text, etc.) form
controls while using Adobe Reader DC?

If so, it sounds like the presenting problem is solved.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

*You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by
ignoring them.
* ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed






Re: NVDA with WhatsApp.

Fawaz Abdul rahman
 

Hi,
The whatsapp beta for windows 10 and above is quite accessible, but it is missing some functionalities such as the ability to record voice messages.
You can try it from here if you're on windows 10 or above:
good luck.


On Fri, May 20, 2022 at 6:16 PM Ravindran V.S. <ravivssl@...> wrote:
Hello Team,
Greetings!
NVDA accessibility with the What's App desktop application is very poor as at now.
As suggested by the NVDA Team earlier, I contacted the WA Support Team and they are very positive to improve on this area.
However, they requested me to send a video demo of the way it works in the desktop.
But, my several attempts to record the issues in short videos did not work. For some reason even videos of 7 minutes or 5 minutes could not be sent from my phone.
In the initial page, NVDA just says "Button" without the labels."
Also, opening any attachments, video or audio is not simple with a click.
Scrolling through the chat list is also a concern as at now.
There may be more.
Therefore, would someone here with technical expertise be able to do a video recording and send to the WA Support Team as the accessibility issues please?
     Thank you, have a pleasant day!
Ravi.







Re: for the third time, filling out a PDF

Chris Smart
 


If so, it sounds like the presenting problem is solved.

If there was even a problem to begin with.

Oops, OK, going back to my corner now.

 


Re: for the third time, filling out a PDF

 

On Fri, May 20, 2022 at 03:22 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
everything worked as described.
-
Bob,

By that do you mean that you are able to tab your way through the user-editable (whether checking unchecking, entering text, etc.) form controls while using Adobe Reader DC?

If so, it sounds like the presenting problem is solved.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


Re: for the third time, filling out a PDF

Bob Cavanaugh
 

I will take a look into both of these when I have more time, probably next week. I doubt though that anything in preferences will need to be changed, as when I followed the steps given on this list, everything worked as described.


On May 20, 2022, at 12:10 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Fri, May 20, 2022 at 02:35 PM, Chris Smart wrote:
I don’t recall you saying that you explored the relevant options in the NVDA Preferences
-
Yet another excellent point.

It often seems to be lost or ignored that when issues occur for one, or even some, people and not for others it is very, very seldom the result of a bug, but something that those who are humming along just fine and those with issues either have or have not done with regard to checking settings in their software, screen reader, etc.

And when attempting diagnostics, it's well nigh impossible to do anything accurate unless those being assisted actually follow through on checking whether settings specified are "as they should be" (or at least match what the assistant has) so that a level testing field exists.

I continue to beg people posting tech issues to this group to always supply the following data at the outset:
1. Windows version and build (where build is appropriate).
2. Software name and version number.

They also should do the following before either posting an issue or considering a GitHub Ticket, as these basic steps very often eliminate an issue or point directly to an add-on as the culprit:

1.        Restart your computer to see if your issue goes away.   (Use Restart rather than Shutdown to ensure a complete power down and Windows OS reload from disc occurs.)

2.       Run the COM Registry Fixing Tool from NVDA’s Tools Menu to see if that fixes your issue.

3.       Restart NVDA with Add-Ons disabled to see if your issue goes away.  If it does, one of the add-ons you use is the culprit.  You can restart NVDA with Add-Ons disabled via the NVDA exit dialog, which gives this as one of the options in the What would you like to do? Dropdown.  If your issue disappears, you will need to determine which Add-On is causing it, and the technique for doing this will be covered in a separate tutorial.

--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


Re: for the third time, filling out a PDF

 

On Fri, May 20, 2022 at 02:35 PM, Chris Smart wrote:
I don’t recall you saying that you explored the relevant options in the NVDA Preferences
-
Yet another excellent point.

It often seems to be lost or ignored that when issues occur for one, or even some, people and not for others it is very, very seldom the result of a bug, but something that those who are humming along just fine and those with issues either have or have not done with regard to checking settings in their software, screen reader, etc.

And when attempting diagnostics, it's well nigh impossible to do anything accurate unless those being assisted actually follow through on checking whether settings specified are "as they should be" (or at least match what the assistant has) so that a level testing field exists.

I continue to beg people posting tech issues to this group to always supply the following data at the outset:
1. Windows version and build (where build is appropriate).
2. Software name and version number.

They also should do the following before either posting an issue or considering a GitHub Ticket, as these basic steps very often eliminate an issue or point directly to an add-on as the culprit:

1.        Restart your computer to see if your issue goes away.   (Use Restart rather than Shutdown to ensure a complete power down and Windows OS reload from disc occurs.)

2.       Run the COM Registry Fixing Tool from NVDA’s Tools Menu to see if that fixes your issue.

3.       Restart NVDA with Add-Ons disabled to see if your issue goes away.  If it does, one of the add-ons you use is the culprit.  You can restart NVDA with Add-Ons disabled via the NVDA exit dialog, which gives this as one of the options in the What would you like to do? Dropdown.  If your issue disappears, you will need to determine which Add-On is causing it, and the technique for doing this will be covered in a separate tutorial.

--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


Re: for the third time, filling out a PDF

Chris Smart
 

Also bob, I don’t recall you saying that you explored the relevant options in the NVDA Preferences > Settings > Browse Mode to see how that affected the behavior in the PDF.

 


Re: for the third time, filling out a PDF

 

Bob,

For the love of heaven, if you think this is an NVDA problem, then get yourself over to GitHub, check if any related open issues exist, and comment on them if they do.  If not, then create a new issue.

Be sure you have done the requested diagnostic steps first, as these often solve problems.

Did you ever run the Adobe Accessibility Wizard?
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


Re: for the third time, filling out a PDF

Bob Cavanaugh
 

This is true, you can't fill out a form in browse mode or whatever
JAWS calls it. However, on a webpage, unless there's something very
strange about the way the form is set up, I can have NVDA in browse
mode, tab through the page, and it will automatically switch to focus
mode when it finds a form entry. This is what I'd expect in Adobe as
well. The fact that this behavior is different in Adobe is what has
generated now 72 messages to this list, which is more than enough for
a ticket.

On 5/20/22, Chris Smart <ve3rwj@...> wrote:
Focus mode is how I've always filled out forms, be they HTML or PDF. (That's
Forms Mode for the Jaws folks)



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Cavanaugh
Sent: May 20, 2022 1:55 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] for the third time, filling out a PDF

Thanks all for your help. I did as you suggested, putting NVDA in focus mode
and was able to tab through and fill out the form, also being able to see
what I was writing. Perhaps a Guithub issue should be created for this, as
this is not expected behavior, and generated nearly 40 messages to this list
before that solution was arrived at.

On 5/20/22, Chris Smart <ve3rwj@...> wrote:
That was probably a trial of Acrobat pro. Just say no to that.
I have Adobe Acrobat Reader DC, Version: 22.1.20117.0 I installed it
yesterday.



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert
Doc Wright godfearer
Sent: May 20, 2022 2:18 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] for the third time, filling out a PDF

Which version of Acrobat reader DC are you using? When I tried to edit
a field it wanted me to start the trial.
On 5/19/2022 7:47 PM, Chris Smart wrote:
With Acrobat Reader DC, I was able to press NVDA+Space on the first
edit field to go into Focus Mode, type my first name in the field,
then tab through and hear all other fields. I didn't bother filling them
out.
I didn't examine the form in detail, but there appear to be ten
unlabeled checkboxes at the end. If I had examined those in browse
Mode, I may have been able to determine what they were fore, but I
did not hear that as I tabbed through them.

But, yes, I was able to hear the names of and fill in edit fields as
I tabbed.

I also tried Jaws, and the overall experience was smoother, but I am
also more familiar with that screenreader.

So yes, I am quite confident I would be able to fill out that form
and email it back.
Chris






--
******
Sometimes I think I understand everything, and then I regain
consciousness.
---------
Family Times theatre
http://familytimes.wrighthere.net:9244/stream
or ask your smart speaker to play family times on tune-in























Re: for the third time, filling out a PDF

Chris Smart
 

Focus mode is how I've always filled out forms, be they HTML or PDF. (That's Forms Mode for the Jaws folks)

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Cavanaugh
Sent: May 20, 2022 1:55 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] for the third time, filling out a PDF

Thanks all for your help. I did as you suggested, putting NVDA in focus mode and was able to tab through and fill out the form, also being able to see what I was writing. Perhaps a Guithub issue should be created for this, as this is not expected behavior, and generated nearly 40 messages to this list before that solution was arrived at.

On 5/20/22, Chris Smart <ve3rwj@...> wrote:
That was probably a trial of Acrobat pro. Just say no to that.
I have Adobe Acrobat Reader DC, Version: 22.1.20117.0 I installed it
yesterday.



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert
Doc Wright godfearer
Sent: May 20, 2022 2:18 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] for the third time, filling out a PDF

Which version of Acrobat reader DC are you using? When I tried to edit
a field it wanted me to start the trial.
On 5/19/2022 7:47 PM, Chris Smart wrote:
With Acrobat Reader DC, I was able to press NVDA+Space on the first
edit field to go into Focus Mode, type my first name in the field,
then tab through and hear all other fields. I didn't bother filling them out.
I didn't examine the form in detail, but there appear to be ten
unlabeled checkboxes at the end. If I had examined those in browse
Mode, I may have been able to determine what they were fore, but I
did not hear that as I tabbed through them.

But, yes, I was able to hear the names of and fill in edit fields as
I tabbed.

I also tried Jaws, and the overall experience was smoother, but I am
also more familiar with that screenreader.

So yes, I am quite confident I would be able to fill out that form
and email it back.
Chris






--
******
Sometimes I think I understand everything, and then I regain
consciousness.
---------
Family Times theatre
http://familytimes.wrighthere.net:9244/stream
or ask your smart speaker to play family times on tune-in













Re: for the third time, filling out a PDF

Bob Cavanaugh
 

Okay, take that back, this message is #70 in this thread. I think 70
messages on a single topic warrants a ticket.

On 5/20/22, Bob Cavanaugh via groups.io <cavbob1993@...> wrote:
Thanks all for your help. I did as you suggested, putting NVDA in
focus mode and was able to tab through and fill out the form, also
being able to see what I was writing. Perhaps a Guithub issue should
be created for this, as this is not expected behavior, and generated
nearly 40 messages to this list before that solution was arrived at.

On 5/20/22, Chris Smart <ve3rwj@...> wrote:
That was probably a trial of Acrobat pro. Just say no to that.
I have Adobe Acrobat Reader DC, Version: 22.1.20117.0
I installed it yesterday.



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert Doc
Wright godfearer
Sent: May 20, 2022 2:18 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] for the third time, filling out a PDF

Which version of Acrobat reader DC are you using? When I tried to edit a
field it wanted me to start the trial.
On 5/19/2022 7:47 PM, Chris Smart wrote:
With Acrobat Reader DC, I was able to press NVDA+Space on the first edit
field to go into Focus Mode, type my first name in the field, then tab
through and hear all other fields. I didn't bother filling them out.
I didn't examine the form in detail, but there appear to be ten
unlabeled
checkboxes at the end. If I had examined those in browse Mode, I may
have
been able to determine what they were fore, but I did not hear that as I
tabbed through them.

But, yes, I was able to hear the names of and fill in edit fields as I
tabbed.

I also tried Jaws, and the overall experience was smoother, but I am
also
more familiar with that screenreader.

So yes, I am quite confident I would be able to fill out that form and
email it back.
Chris






--
******
Sometimes I think I understand everything, and then I regain
consciousness.
---------
Family Times theatre
http://familytimes.wrighthere.net:9244/stream
or ask your smart speaker to play family times on tune-in

















Re: for the third time, filling out a PDF

Bob Cavanaugh
 

Thanks all for your help. I did as you suggested, putting NVDA in
focus mode and was able to tab through and fill out the form, also
being able to see what I was writing. Perhaps a Guithub issue should
be created for this, as this is not expected behavior, and generated
nearly 40 messages to this list before that solution was arrived at.

On 5/20/22, Chris Smart <ve3rwj@...> wrote:
That was probably a trial of Acrobat pro. Just say no to that.
I have Adobe Acrobat Reader DC, Version: 22.1.20117.0
I installed it yesterday.



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert Doc
Wright godfearer
Sent: May 20, 2022 2:18 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] for the third time, filling out a PDF

Which version of Acrobat reader DC are you using? When I tried to edit a
field it wanted me to start the trial.
On 5/19/2022 7:47 PM, Chris Smart wrote:
With Acrobat Reader DC, I was able to press NVDA+Space on the first edit
field to go into Focus Mode, type my first name in the field, then tab
through and hear all other fields. I didn't bother filling them out.
I didn't examine the form in detail, but there appear to be ten unlabeled
checkboxes at the end. If I had examined those in browse Mode, I may have
been able to determine what they were fore, but I did not hear that as I
tabbed through them.

But, yes, I was able to hear the names of and fill in edit fields as I
tabbed.

I also tried Jaws, and the overall experience was smoother, but I am also
more familiar with that screenreader.

So yes, I am quite confident I would be able to fill out that form and
email it back.
Chris






--
******
Sometimes I think I understand everything, and then I regain
consciousness.
---------
Family Times theatre
http://familytimes.wrighthere.net:9244/stream
or ask your smart speaker to play family times on tune-in













Re: NVDA with WhatsApp.

Sarah k Alawami
 

No need to use yrou phone, use obs to record directg from from the pc. . I can if I'm not too busy do one later today. As I have a lot of issues, not as many as you do as I sort of know the kinks. I will send you the final result off list.


Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. .

For more info go to our website. . to subscribe to the feed click here

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On 20 May 2022, at 8:05, Ravindran V.S. wrote:

Hello Team,
Greetings!
NVDA accessibility with the What's App desktop application is very poor as at now.
As suggested by the NVDA Team earlier, I contacted the WA Support Team and they are very positive to improve on this area.
However, they requested me to send a video demo of the way it works in the desktop.
But, my several attempts to record the issues in short videos did not work. For some reason even videos of 7 minutes or 5 minutes could not be sent from my phone.
In the initial page, NVDA just says "Button" without the labels."
Also, opening any attachments, video or audio is not simple with a click.
Scrolling through the chat list is also a concern as at now.
There may be more.
Therefore, would someone here with technical expertise be able to do a video recording and send to the WA Support Team as the accessibility issues please?
Thank you, have a pleasant day!
Ravi.


Re: NVDA with WhatsApp.

 

The following 30 minute YouTube tutorial, How to access whatsapp in laptop or desktop using NVDA screen reader by Saagar SK, may prove helpful to you.  It dates from the end of 2021, so isn't very old.

The tutorial narration is not in English.  I am not "good enough" with the languages of India to say which one it actually is.  NVDA itself is announcing in English throughout.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed

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