Date   

Re: holding off on 2022.1 due to Code Factory dragging their feet

Lenron
 

No you are not alone. Anyone have a link for the latest VLC addon. I
am so over having to lose addons every time I need to update

On 5/23/22, Shaun Oliver <blindman75@...> wrote:
why do people insist on posting stuff that is questionable if not
outright illegal on this list?


We've all been asked time and time again to refrain from doing so.



On 24/05/2022 9:50 am, Curtis Delzer wrote:

I have the IBM update for NVDA, and it is working with this version of
NVDA 2022.1 just fine.

It is as good as any eloquence, in fact the creator of the same
algorithm made this one.

https://od.lk/d/NjRfMjg2MzEwMDlf/IBMTTS-V21.03-Alpha1%28By-BHP%29.NVDA-addon

so, check it out.

On 5/23/2022 2:31 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi everyone,

A few clarifications before I crash with another headache:

Code Factory add-ons: while I cannot go into specifics, there was a
last minute change made in NVDA 2022.1 to keep many add-ons
compatible (specifically, control types refactor). I'm not sure if
Code Factory is referring to this issue (a while ago someone posted
that CF told folks that they are awaiting word from NV Access about
code change in 2022.1), but I imagine that folks over there are
working on compatibility updates.

Add-on update delays: it is normal to receive compatibility updates
with a delay when stable NVDA versions are released, more so when we
have a year.1 version (compatibility breaking release) in front of
us. Without going into details, around the time NVDA 2022.1 beta 1
was around the corner, add-on authors wrote to NV Access about
control types refactor (see the list archive from last year for an
overview from me about this) and that can break more add-ons than
anticipated. Therefore, NV Access decided to include a compatibility
layer for old and new add-on releases, which is why add-ons may
appear to work when you edit the manifest (addressed below). But for
all practical purposes, NV Access recommends using the new control
types code introduced in NVDA 2021.2.

As for manifests, as you read from Brian V a few minutes ago, working
with manifests is a temporary workaround until the actual update
declaring compatibility with the just released NVDA version becomes
available. Why is this method a temporary workaround?

1. 32-bit versus 64-bit Python: the reason why NVDA is a 32-bit
application (for the most part) is because it is running on top
of a 32-bit Python interpreter. There has been talks about moving
to 64-bit Python (and consequently making NVDA a 64-bit screen
reader), which requires a huge coordination between NV Access,
add-ons community, users, and other stakeholders - similar to, or
more than the work required to move from Python 2 to Python 3 (by
the way, as of May 2022, building add-ons with Python 2 is no
longer supported). Moving from 32-bit to 64-bit is not a simple
matter of instaling a 64-bit Python interpreter and get it to run
NVDA - it requires working with dependencies, including
third-party libraries which can come in either 32-bit or 64-bit
flavors, or in some cases, libraries needed to let 64-bit NVDA
talk to 32-bit components and programs. Add-ons are not free from
this - I would say add-ons require more work than the screen
reader itself as they can come with components that are purely
32-bit (most notable being 32-bit speech synthesizer DLL's); on
64-bit Windows, you CANNOT let a 64-bit executable (.exe) talk to
32-bit DLL and vice versa without asking someone (another
executable) to serve as a bridge and translate things on the fly
(won't go into details as it is quite technical (low-level,
literally) and don't want to go to the hospital right now). This
becomes more important if your favorite add-on(s) use Python
libraries with the extension of .pyd (Python extension DLL), and
recent Python releases will load compatible DLL's (32-bit pyd for
32-bit Python and vice versa). So imagine a scenario where a
64-bit NVDA is released and you edit the add-on manifest,
thinking that your favorite add-on(s) will work beautifully on
both 32-bit and 64-bit NVDA. I'll leave it up to you to imagine
what would happen when you restart NVDA.
2. NVDA code can come and go: while the biggest under the hood
change in NVDA 2022.1 (among other things) is control types
refactor, there are things that can be introduced in future NVDA
(and Python) releases that can make add-ons inoperable without
editing the add-on source code. Imagine a new version of NVDA is
released which is powered by a newer Python release (say, 3.10).
Even if the add-on manifest edits appear to work and the add-on
source code looks fine, it may not work correctly if it turns out
it is using parts of Python that is no longer present or changed
in some way. This becomes complicated if the add-on uses pyd
files - Python will load pyd files that are compatible with: the
version of Python you have and bit compatibility (32-bit Python
3.7 will load pyd files specifically designed for 32-vbit Python
3.7).

The biggest takeaway: EDIT MANIFESTS AS A LAST RESORT OPTION! Or, for
that matter, DO NOT EDIT MANIFESTS, or if you must do it, first
contact the add-on author BEFORE following what Brian wrote to you
several minutes ago.

P.S. I once thought about instructing Add-on Updater (in the future)
to present a message to anyone using add-ons with modified manifests
but decided against as it is draconian and requires Internet access.
But my sentiment remains: unless you know what you are doing, editing
manifests should not be attempted prior to doing everything you can
to contact the add-on author about updates. After all, it is not NV
Access who has final authority on add-ons - the ultimate authority
with add-ons rest with authors (including NV Access if they wrote
add-ons you are using); my statement on who has final (and ultimate)
authority on add-ons should also answer a question posed earlier: who
to call when add-ons become unmaintained (contact the last known
maintainer and/or the original add-on author (contact info can be
found in Add-ons Manager) and then let the community know).

Thank you.

P.S. This might be the last time I will address this subject (for
now; NVDA 2022.1 development and coordinating add-on compatibility
while studying for grad seminars (which I passed, by the way) was
rewarding and stressful; I didn't feel this tired and out of energy
since 2016 while organizing NVDACon that year, ended up lying on my
bed for a few days then).

Cheers,

Joseph
--
Curtis Delzer
H.S.
K6VFO
Rialto, CA
curtis@...




--
Lenron Brown
Main cell 985-714-8446
Cell: 985-271-2832
Skype: ron.brown762


Re: Whether or not recommending new NVDA user to set Capslock as NVDA key

William
 

I do programming as well, many variables and function names include both upper case and lower case.

and many of my passwords used in login in include upper and lower case.

So personally I do not use Capslock as NVDA key.

But for new NVDA users, I will try to explain to them the possible benefits and problems of setting Capslock as NVDA key and let them choose.

But many of them are newly blind people, and they do not have the knowledge to decide on themselves on whether they should set Capslock as NVDA key or not.




Carlos Medrano 於 24/5/2022 01:55 寫道:

Hmm. I usually tell people to try it both ways. Keep in mind that I'm considering this from the perspective of having key echo turned off and being really aggravated to find out that I've been coding for the last 5 to 10 minutes in upper case. Most programming languages are case sensitive, and depending on the programming style used, it's rare for me to write anything in upper case.


Having Capslock used as a modifier by NVDA makes it much harder for me to accidentally enable it in this particular case.


Hope this is helpful.


On 5/23/2022 12:38 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Does JAWS have this option? The only reason I ask is because JAWS was
the first screen reader I used, and this was not the modifier.
Therefore, I've found it quite strange to use that key, even though
NVDA has had it as an option ever since I've been using it. It's also
why I wasn't a fan of the revamped Narrator when it came out, because
that was its only modifier. That being said, it's really user
preference as has been stated before.

On 5/23/22, Chris Mullins <cjmullins29@...> wrote:
Hi

I always set Caps Lock as an NVDA modifier Because as a touch typist, it is
more convenient to have a modifier key on each side of the keyboard to
facilitate command entry.   For the same reason, I always get an external
keyboard with 2 Windows keys.



I rarely type in all capitals so the double press of the Caps Lock to engage
capital input is not an issue as using the shift key is not difficult.



Cheers

                 Chris

Sent from Mail for Windows



From: William
Sent: 23 May 2022 04:14
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Whether or not recommending new NVDA user to set Capslock as
NVDA key



Hi all,



I would like to ask for your opinion.



Some new NVDA users, including desktop and laptop owners, will ask for

my opinion on whether they should set the Capslock as the NVDA key.



With regard to desktop and laptop environment, the logic that I have

provided them are as follows:



1. setting Capslock key as NVDA key, you have to press the key two times

in order to input capital letters. But if you have to frequently press

the Capslock key to type capital letters, then setting Capslock key as

NVDA key will not be a good option.



2. setting Capslock key as NVDA key, you have one more option of NVDA

key, which you can choose from using the Capslock key or Insert key as

the NVDA key. But if you do not set Capslock as NVDA key, you will most

probably have to limit to pressing Insert key (laptop) or Insert key or

Numpad 0 (desktop).





How would you advice new NVDA users if they own a desktop or laptop

regarding this issue? thanks.


































Re: NVDA 2022.1 and add-ons: compatibility updates

Rowen Cary
 

Hi,How about Word-Nav, is there a new version?


Re: NVDA 2022.1 and add-ons: compatibility updates

Louise Pfau
 

Hi.  I just installed NVDA 2022.1, and I've got a few add-ons that are listed as incompatible and were therefore disabled.  Will add-on updater still detect them at a later date and allow them to be reenabled?  The add-ons in question are Emoticons 14.7, Quick Dictionary 2.1.4, and Virtual Review 21.06.

Thanks,

Louise


Re: Whether or not recommending new NVDA user to set Capslock as NVDA key

Luke Davis
 

Monte Single wrote:

I have never seen a 15 inch laptop that did not have a number pad.
I have. The older HP 15 sitting in front of me doesn't.
A family member just bought either an otherwise normal (i.e. non-netbook) Acer or Asus 15 incher which doesn't.

And I picked up one, one of the big manufacturers but I forget which, back in 2020 that was a 15". It showed a numpad on Amazon, but didn't have one when it arrived. It turned out there were multiple versions of the model, and the picture was for a different one than shipped.

I decided that was too much of a grab-bag, returned it, and spent $300 more on an MSI instead. And never looked back.

Luke


Re: IMPORTANT: Clock and Calendar add-on is abandoned and end of support, no plans for future releases, use alternatives

Eduardo Fermiano Luccas
 

what version of windows are you using? I've always used windows 10, and he's never had problems like this but, I don't know how it would be on windows 11

Em seg., 23 de mai. de 2022 às 17:38, Robert Doc Wright godfearer <godfearer@...> escreveu:

I found it but it is not accessible.

On 5/23/2022 8:00 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Group,

When Joseph refers to other apps such as Windows 10/11 Alarms and Clock app, is this an NVDA app or is it something built into Windows itself?

On 5/23/2022 4:33 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi everyone,

I see that Clock and Calendar add-on is not showing as compatible with just released NVDA 2022.1. There is a story to that:

A few months ago, folks from NVDA add-ons community reached out to the original author of Clock add-on about add-on maintenance, and the author noted that he will not be able to maintain it. I, the last known maintainer of this add-on, have long ago abandoned maintenance of this add-on (back in December 2021) with no plans for NVDA 2022.1 compatibility then. The add-ons community was and still is looking for maintainers of this add-on. But for now:

I hereby announce that Clock and Calendar add-on is abandoned and end of support. There are no plans for future releases, and compatibility with future NVDA releases cannot be guaranteed. Please use alternatives such as Windows 10 and 11 Alarms and Clock app or other apps and services offering time keeping/calendar/stopwatch/timer features. The add-on may become supported again if new maintainers step forward to maintain this add-on.

Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph


-- 
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grevous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!
-- 
******
Sometimes I think I understand everything,  and then I regain consciousness. 
---------
Family Times theatre
http://familytimes.wrighthere.net:9244/stream 
or ask your smart speaker to play family times on tune-in



--
eduardo fermiano luccas
joinville, brasil
músico e editor de áldio iniciante


Re: holding off on 2022.1 due to Code Factory dragging their feet

Shaun Oliver
 

why do people insist on posting stuff that is questionable if not outright illegal on this list?


We've all been asked time and time again to refrain from doing so.



On 24/05/2022 9:50 am, Curtis Delzer wrote:

I have the IBM update for NVDA, and it is working with this version of NVDA 2022.1 just fine.

It is as good as any eloquence, in fact the creator of the same algorithm made this one.

https://od.lk/d/NjRfMjg2MzEwMDlf/IBMTTS-V21.03-Alpha1%28By-BHP%29.NVDA-addon

so, check it out.

On 5/23/2022 2:31 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi everyone,

A few clarifications before I crash with another headache:

Code Factory add-ons: while I cannot go into specifics, there was a last minute change made in NVDA 2022.1 to keep many add-ons compatible (specifically, control types refactor). I'm not sure if Code Factory is referring to this issue (a while ago someone posted that CF told folks that they are awaiting word from NV Access about code change in 2022.1), but I imagine that folks over there are working on compatibility updates.

Add-on update delays: it is normal to receive compatibility updates with a delay when stable NVDA versions are released, more so when we have a year.1 version (compatibility breaking release) in front of us. Without going into details, around the time NVDA 2022.1 beta 1 was around the corner, add-on authors wrote to NV Access about control types refactor (see the list archive from last year for an overview from me about this) and that can break more add-ons than anticipated. Therefore, NV Access decided to include a compatibility layer for old and new add-on releases, which is why add-ons may appear to work when you edit the manifest (addressed below). But for all practical purposes, NV Access recommends using the new control types code introduced in NVDA 2021.2.

As for manifests, as you read from Brian V a few minutes ago, working with manifests is a temporary workaround until the actual update declaring compatibility with the just released NVDA version becomes available. Why is this method a temporary workaround?

  1. 32-bit versus 64-bit Python: the reason why NVDA is a 32-bit application (for the most part) is because it is running on top of a 32-bit Python interpreter. There has been talks about moving to 64-bit Python (and consequently making NVDA a 64-bit screen reader), which requires a huge coordination between NV Access, add-ons community, users, and other stakeholders - similar to, or more than the work required to move from Python 2 to Python 3 (by the way, as of May 2022, building add-ons with Python 2 is no longer supported). Moving from 32-bit to 64-bit is not a simple matter of instaling a 64-bit Python interpreter and get it to run NVDA - it requires working with dependencies, including third-party libraries which can come in either 32-bit or 64-bit flavors, or in some cases, libraries needed to let 64-bit NVDA talk to 32-bit components and programs. Add-ons are not free from this - I would say add-ons require more work than the screen reader itself as they can come with components that are purely 32-bit (most notable being 32-bit speech synthesizer DLL's); on 64-bit Windows, you CANNOT let a 64-bit executable (.exe) talk to 32-bit DLL and vice versa without asking someone (another executable) to serve as a bridge and translate things on the fly (won't go into details as it is quite technical (low-level, literally) and don't want to go to the hospital right now). This becomes more important if your favorite add-on(s) use Python libraries with the extension of .pyd (Python extension DLL), and recent Python releases will load compatible DLL's (32-bit pyd for 32-bit Python and vice versa). So imagine a scenario where a 64-bit NVDA is released and you edit the add-on manifest, thinking that your favorite add-on(s) will work beautifully on both 32-bit and 64-bit NVDA. I'll leave it up to you to imagine what would happen when you restart NVDA.
  2. NVDA code can come and go: while the biggest under the hood change in NVDA 2022.1 (among other things) is control types refactor, there are things that can be introduced in future NVDA (and Python) releases that can make add-ons inoperable without editing the add-on source code. Imagine a new version of NVDA is released which is powered by a newer Python release (say, 3.10). Even if the add-on manifest edits appear to work and the add-on source code looks fine, it may not work correctly if it turns out it is using parts of Python that is no longer present or changed in some way. This becomes complicated if the add-on uses pyd files - Python will load pyd files that are compatible with: the version of Python you have and bit compatibility (32-bit Python 3.7 will load pyd files specifically designed for 32-vbit Python 3.7).

The biggest takeaway: EDIT MANIFESTS AS A LAST RESORT OPTION! Or, for that matter, DO NOT EDIT MANIFESTS, or if you must do it, first contact the add-on author BEFORE following what Brian wrote to you several minutes ago.

P.S. I once thought about instructing Add-on Updater (in the future) to present a message to anyone using add-ons with modified manifests but decided against as it is draconian and requires Internet access. But my sentiment remains: unless you know what you are doing, editing manifests should not be attempted prior to doing everything you can to contact the add-on author about updates. After all, it is not NV Access who has final authority on add-ons - the ultimate authority with add-ons rest with authors (including NV Access if they wrote add-ons you are using); my statement on who has final (and ultimate) authority on add-ons should also answer a question posed earlier: who to call when add-ons become unmaintained (contact the last known maintainer and/or the original add-on author (contact info can be found in Add-ons Manager) and then let the community know).

Thank you.

P.S. This might be the last time I will address this subject (for now; NVDA 2022.1 development and coordinating add-on compatibility while studying for grad seminars (which I passed, by the way) was rewarding and stressful; I didn't feel this tired and out of energy since 2016 while organizing NVDACon that year, ended up lying on my bed for a few days then).

Cheers,

Joseph

-- 
Curtis Delzer
H.S.
K6VFO
 Rialto, CA
curtis@...


Re: holding off on 2022.1 due to Code Factory dragging their feet

Curtis Delzer
 

I have the IBM update for NVDA, and it is working with this version of NVDA 2022.1 just fine.

It is as good as any eloquence, in fact the creator of the same algorithm made this one.

https://od.lk/d/NjRfMjg2MzEwMDlf/IBMTTS-V21.03-Alpha1%28By-BHP%29.NVDA-addon

so, check it out.

On 5/23/2022 2:31 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi everyone,

A few clarifications before I crash with another headache:

Code Factory add-ons: while I cannot go into specifics, there was a last minute change made in NVDA 2022.1 to keep many add-ons compatible (specifically, control types refactor). I'm not sure if Code Factory is referring to this issue (a while ago someone posted that CF told folks that they are awaiting word from NV Access about code change in 2022.1), but I imagine that folks over there are working on compatibility updates.

Add-on update delays: it is normal to receive compatibility updates with a delay when stable NVDA versions are released, more so when we have a year.1 version (compatibility breaking release) in front of us. Without going into details, around the time NVDA 2022.1 beta 1 was around the corner, add-on authors wrote to NV Access about control types refactor (see the list archive from last year for an overview from me about this) and that can break more add-ons than anticipated. Therefore, NV Access decided to include a compatibility layer for old and new add-on releases, which is why add-ons may appear to work when you edit the manifest (addressed below). But for all practical purposes, NV Access recommends using the new control types code introduced in NVDA 2021.2.

As for manifests, as you read from Brian V a few minutes ago, working with manifests is a temporary workaround until the actual update declaring compatibility with the just released NVDA version becomes available. Why is this method a temporary workaround?

  1. 32-bit versus 64-bit Python: the reason why NVDA is a 32-bit application (for the most part) is because it is running on top of a 32-bit Python interpreter. There has been talks about moving to 64-bit Python (and consequently making NVDA a 64-bit screen reader), which requires a huge coordination between NV Access, add-ons community, users, and other stakeholders - similar to, or more than the work required to move from Python 2 to Python 3 (by the way, as of May 2022, building add-ons with Python 2 is no longer supported). Moving from 32-bit to 64-bit is not a simple matter of instaling a 64-bit Python interpreter and get it to run NVDA - it requires working with dependencies, including third-party libraries which can come in either 32-bit or 64-bit flavors, or in some cases, libraries needed to let 64-bit NVDA talk to 32-bit components and programs. Add-ons are not free from this - I would say add-ons require more work than the screen reader itself as they can come with components that are purely 32-bit (most notable being 32-bit speech synthesizer DLL's); on 64-bit Windows, you CANNOT let a 64-bit executable (.exe) talk to 32-bit DLL and vice versa without asking someone (another executable) to serve as a bridge and translate things on the fly (won't go into details as it is quite technical (low-level, literally) and don't want to go to the hospital right now). This becomes more important if your favorite add-on(s) use Python libraries with the extension of .pyd (Python extension DLL), and recent Python releases will load compatible DLL's (32-bit pyd for 32-bit Python and vice versa). So imagine a scenario where a 64-bit NVDA is released and you edit the add-on manifest, thinking that your favorite add-on(s) will work beautifully on both 32-bit and 64-bit NVDA. I'll leave it up to you to imagine what would happen when you restart NVDA.
  2. NVDA code can come and go: while the biggest under the hood change in NVDA 2022.1 (among other things) is control types refactor, there are things that can be introduced in future NVDA (and Python) releases that can make add-ons inoperable without editing the add-on source code. Imagine a new version of NVDA is released which is powered by a newer Python release (say, 3.10). Even if the add-on manifest edits appear to work and the add-on source code looks fine, it may not work correctly if it turns out it is using parts of Python that is no longer present or changed in some way. This becomes complicated if the add-on uses pyd files - Python will load pyd files that are compatible with: the version of Python you have and bit compatibility (32-bit Python 3.7 will load pyd files specifically designed for 32-vbit Python 3.7).

The biggest takeaway: EDIT MANIFESTS AS A LAST RESORT OPTION! Or, for that matter, DO NOT EDIT MANIFESTS, or if you must do it, first contact the add-on author BEFORE following what Brian wrote to you several minutes ago.

P.S. I once thought about instructing Add-on Updater (in the future) to present a message to anyone using add-ons with modified manifests but decided against as it is draconian and requires Internet access. But my sentiment remains: unless you know what you are doing, editing manifests should not be attempted prior to doing everything you can to contact the add-on author about updates. After all, it is not NV Access who has final authority on add-ons - the ultimate authority with add-ons rest with authors (including NV Access if they wrote add-ons you are using); my statement on who has final (and ultimate) authority on add-ons should also answer a question posed earlier: who to call when add-ons become unmaintained (contact the last known maintainer and/or the original add-on author (contact info can be found in Add-ons Manager) and then let the community know).

Thank you.

P.S. This might be the last time I will address this subject (for now; NVDA 2022.1 development and coordinating add-on compatibility while studying for grad seminars (which I passed, by the way) was rewarding and stressful; I didn't feel this tired and out of energy since 2016 while organizing NVDACon that year, ended up lying on my bed for a few days then).

Cheers,

Joseph

-- 
Curtis Delzer
H.S.
K6VFO
 Rialto, CA
curtis@...


Re: Editing an NVDA Add-On Manifest file as a Temporary Workaround #adminnotice

Carlos Medrano
 

%appdata% is roaming, %localappdata% is local.


On 5/23/2022 5:09 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Mon, May 23, 2022 at 05:15 PM, George McCoy wrote:
I think you'll find that the path to the NVDA add-ons folder is %APPDATA%\Roaming\nvda\addons
-
No, it's not.  The Roaming folder is the last one in the path represented by %APPDATA%.

It's easy enough to check for yourself in Command Prompt by issuing the command:
echo %APPDATA%
if you don't believe me.  I don't post these instructions without having triple checked things first.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


Re: Editing an NVDA Add-On Manifest file as a Temporary Workaround #adminnotice

 

On Mon, May 23, 2022 at 05:15 PM, George McCoy wrote:
I think you'll find that the path to the NVDA add-ons folder is %APPDATA%\Roaming\nvda\addons
-
No, it's not.  The Roaming folder is the last one in the path represented by %APPDATA%.

It's easy enough to check for yourself in Command Prompt by issuing the command:
echo %APPDATA%
if you don't believe me.  I don't post these instructions without having triple checked things first.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


Re: Version 22.06 of Joseph Lee's add-ons posted: Add-on Updater, Windows App Essentials, Event Tracker (deep maintenance), Object Location Tones (deep maintenance), ObjPad (deep maintenance) #addonrelease

Bruno Aníbal Prieto González
 

Thank you very much Joseph! Object Location Tones is fundamental for
me. I don't know what I would do without that add-on to locate myself
by window elements. Have a great holidays!

2022-05-23 0:59 GMT-04:00, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...>:

Have a nice break.
I actually will for myself assuming I don't reaquire covid or
something else doesn't go wrong be out of the office for 4 days or so
on vacation.
I have not decided but I am seriously conciddering not taking my
workstation with me which means I won't be getting mail or anything at
all.
Just my recorder and shortwave reciever and thats about it.
Its hard to take a techbreak, luckily my phone aint smart so I don't
have to bother about that but yeah, seriously conciddering going
offline completely myself.

On 23/05/2022, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:
Hi all,

With the release of NVDA 2022.1 stable version, I'm delighted to announce
the immediate release of five add-on updates:

* Add-on Updater 22.06: internal changes.
* Event Tracker 22.06: compatibility update.
* Object Location Tones 22.06: compatibility update.
* ObjPad 22.06: compatibility update.
* Windows App Essentials 22.06: many goodies and bug fixes. Note that
the version offered will be 22.06.1 due to a last minute change requiring
a
version bump.



Of these add-ons, Event Tracker, Object Location Tones, and ObjPad are in
deep maintenance mode. I have no plans for future releases of these
add-ons,
and I cannot guarantee that these add-ons will be compatible with the
next
release of NVDA unless someone steps up to maintain them; consider them
abandoned and end of support.

Now that add-ons were updated (Add-on Updater should be offering them to
you
as of this moment), I can finally take a vacation I needed for some time.
Therefore, I will not release add-on updates of any kind throughout June
2022. Don't worry if I don't respond to you on a timely manner about my
add-ons - consider me offline.

See you all in July.

Cheers,

Joseph











Re: holding off on 2022.1 due to Code Factory dragging their feet

 

Hi everyone,

A few clarifications before I crash with another headache:

Code Factory add-ons: while I cannot go into specifics, there was a last minute change made in NVDA 2022.1 to keep many add-ons compatible (specifically, control types refactor). I'm not sure if Code Factory is referring to this issue (a while ago someone posted that CF told folks that they are awaiting word from NV Access about code change in 2022.1), but I imagine that folks over there are working on compatibility updates.

Add-on update delays: it is normal to receive compatibility updates with a delay when stable NVDA versions are released, more so when we have a year.1 version (compatibility breaking release) in front of us. Without going into details, around the time NVDA 2022.1 beta 1 was around the corner, add-on authors wrote to NV Access about control types refactor (see the list archive from last year for an overview from me about this) and that can break more add-ons than anticipated. Therefore, NV Access decided to include a compatibility layer for old and new add-on releases, which is why add-ons may appear to work when you edit the manifest (addressed below). But for all practical purposes, NV Access recommends using the new control types code introduced in NVDA 2021.2.

As for manifests, as you read from Brian V a few minutes ago, working with manifests is a temporary workaround until the actual update declaring compatibility with the just released NVDA version becomes available. Why is this method a temporary workaround?

  1. 32-bit versus 64-bit Python: the reason why NVDA is a 32-bit application (for the most part) is because it is running on top of a 32-bit Python interpreter. There has been talks about moving to 64-bit Python (and consequently making NVDA a 64-bit screen reader), which requires a huge coordination between NV Access, add-ons community, users, and other stakeholders - similar to, or more than the work required to move from Python 2 to Python 3 (by the way, as of May 2022, building add-ons with Python 2 is no longer supported). Moving from 32-bit to 64-bit is not a simple matter of instaling a 64-bit Python interpreter and get it to run NVDA - it requires working with dependencies, including third-party libraries which can come in either 32-bit or 64-bit flavors, or in some cases, libraries needed to let 64-bit NVDA talk to 32-bit components and programs. Add-ons are not free from this - I would say add-ons require more work than the screen reader itself as they can come with components that are purely 32-bit (most notable being 32-bit speech synthesizer DLL's); on 64-bit Windows, you CANNOT let a 64-bit executable (.exe) talk to 32-bit DLL and vice versa without asking someone (another executable) to serve as a bridge and translate things on the fly (won't go into details as it is quite technical (low-level, literally) and don't want to go to the hospital right now). This becomes more important if your favorite add-on(s) use Python libraries with the extension of .pyd (Python extension DLL), and recent Python releases will load compatible DLL's (32-bit pyd for 32-bit Python and vice versa). So imagine a scenario where a 64-bit NVDA is released and you edit the add-on manifest, thinking that your favorite add-on(s) will work beautifully on both 32-bit and 64-bit NVDA. I'll leave it up to you to imagine what would happen when you restart NVDA.
  2. NVDA code can come and go: while the biggest under the hood change in NVDA 2022.1 (among other things) is control types refactor, there are things that can be introduced in future NVDA (and Python) releases that can make add-ons inoperable without editing the add-on source code. Imagine a new version of NVDA is released which is powered by a newer Python release (say, 3.10). Even if the add-on manifest edits appear to work and the add-on source code looks fine, it may not work correctly if it turns out it is using parts of Python that is no longer present or changed in some way. This becomes complicated if the add-on uses pyd files - Python will load pyd files that are compatible with: the version of Python you have and bit compatibility (32-bit Python 3.7 will load pyd files specifically designed for 32-vbit Python 3.7).

The biggest takeaway: EDIT MANIFESTS AS A LAST RESORT OPTION! Or, for that matter, DO NOT EDIT MANIFESTS, or if you must do it, first contact the add-on author BEFORE following what Brian wrote to you several minutes ago.

P.S. I once thought about instructing Add-on Updater (in the future) to present a message to anyone using add-ons with modified manifests but decided against as it is draconian and requires Internet access. But my sentiment remains: unless you know what you are doing, editing manifests should not be attempted prior to doing everything you can to contact the add-on author about updates. After all, it is not NV Access who has final authority on add-ons - the ultimate authority with add-ons rest with authors (including NV Access if they wrote add-ons you are using); my statement on who has final (and ultimate) authority on add-ons should also answer a question posed earlier: who to call when add-ons become unmaintained (contact the last known maintainer and/or the original add-on author (contact info can be found in Add-ons Manager) and then let the community know).

Thank you.

P.S. This might be the last time I will address this subject (for now; NVDA 2022.1 development and coordinating add-on compatibility while studying for grad seminars (which I passed, by the way) was rewarding and stressful; I didn't feel this tired and out of energy since 2016 while organizing NVDACon that year, ended up lying on my bed for a few days then).

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: Editing an NVDA Add-On Manifest file as a Temporary Workaround #adminnotice

George McCoy
 

Brian,


I think you'll find that the path to the NVDA add-ons folder is %APPDATA%\Roaming\nvda\addons


George

On 5/23/2022 3:46 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Editing an NVDA Add-On Manifest file as a Temporary Workaround

Moderator's Note:
  This post is about exactly what it says, a temporary workaround.  This is NOT the way to truly fix add-on compatibility issues in many cases, but it will work as a temporary workaround for some in a pinch. You use these instructions completely at your own risk.

Note Well:  This will NOT always work when there is a backward compatibility breaking release of NVDA because, sometimes, add-on code must be changed.  But it sometimes works if nothing more than testing and certification is needed for a given add-on, and that’s a bit behind the actual NVDA release.  Also, the %APPDATA% folder is normally hidden, so if your machine objects to your trying to navigate there, you will have to take the steps to show hidden files and folders on your machine.

Your NVDA Add-Ons are found in the following folder:

%APPDATA%\nvda\addons

and you can type (or cut and paste) the exact path shown above into the Address combo box in File Explorer, and after hitting Enter that’s where you’ll be.  A list of folders corresponding to each of the add-ons you have installed will be in the file list.  Locate the add-on for which you wish to edit the manifest file and open its folder.

In the folder you will find a file with the name manifest.ini.  It is a plain text file, so can be opened for editing with any plain text editor of your choosing.  I use Notepad, but any text editor will do.

Once you have the file open for editing, search for the line that starts with:  lastTestedNVDAVersion =

You will be substituting the current NVDA version number for whatever is currently shown after the equal sign.  It is critical that there be a space after the ‘n’ in “version” as well as after the equal sign itself.  The NVDA version goes after that space after the equal sign.  If you check out the line character by character after the ‘n’ in “version” as you found it, you’ll encounter those spaces.  Just make sure that the equal sign has a space before it, and after it.

This will trick NVDA into believing that the add-on has been tested up to and including the current NVDA version number.

If an add-on crashes or otherwise misbehaves after using this workaround, then work on its code will be required.

If you use this workaround, and become aware that a version of your add-on that has actually been tested with the latest version of NVDA has become available, definitely take the time to install the real version.  Your doctored manifest.ini file will end up being overwritten as part of installing “the real thing.”

--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


Re: Update On My Incompatible Add-Ons

Robert Doc Wright godfearer
 

I tried it with no result.l

On 5/23/2022 8:46 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Group,

I took the radical step of simply changing the manifest.ini for some of my add-ons that are listed as incompatible with NVDA 2022.1.  I know this is somewhat dangerous, but for simple, non essential type things like Extended Winamp and phonetic reading, I gave it a go. The following add-ons work when using this inefficient method.

extended Winamp
enhanced phonetic reading
clock
day of the week.

Again, this is a radical step and over time, if these add-ons are not rewritten, there will probably be problems. But as a stop gap until people update, this might be something to consider. I advise doing this one at a time, exiting and restarting NVDA and seeing if there is any deleterious effect--not only for the add on itself, but for NVDA in general. Who knows what this kind of Gerry rigging might cause.
--
******
Sometimes I think I understand everything, and then I regain consciousness.
---------
Family Times theatre
http://familytimes.wrighthere.net:9244/stream
or ask your smart speaker to play family times on tune-in


Re: Editing an NVDA Add-On Manifest file as a Temporary Workaround #adminnotice

Tyler Spivey
 

A couple of tips:

1. There's another way to get to the NVDA user configuration directory for installed copies.
NVDA installs a shortcut in the start menu called Explore NVDA user configuration directory. Typing explore nvda into the search box should find it.
2. On nvda-addons.org, there's an addon that will do all the work for you called cricricri:
https://nvda-addons.org/addon.php?id=228
The documentation is in Spanish, but you simply have to install it, go to the NVDA menu, Tools, Date changer for manifests.
From there, check the addons you want, set the major version to 2022 and apply.

On 5/23/2022 1:46 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
*/Editing an NVDA Add-On Manifest file as a Temporary Workaround
Moderator's Note:/*  This post is about exactly what it says, a temporary workaround.  This is NOT the way to truly fix add-on compatibility issues in many cases, but it will work as a temporary workaround for some in a pinch. You use these instructions completely at your own risk.
*/Note Well:/*  This will NOT always work when there is a backward compatibility breaking release of NVDA because, sometimes, add-on code must be changed.  But it sometimes works if nothing more than testing and certification is needed for a given add-on, and that’s a bit behind the actual NVDA release.  Also, the %APPDATA% folder is normally hidden, so if your machine objects to your trying to navigate there, you will have to take the steps to show hidden files and folders on your machine.
Your NVDA Add-Ons are found in the following folder:
%APPDATA%\nvda\addons
and you can type (or cut and paste) the exact path shown above into the Address combo box in File Explorer, and after hitting Enter that’s where you’ll be.  A list of folders corresponding to each of the add-ons you have installed will be in the file list.  Locate the add-on for which you wish to edit the manifest file and open its folder.
In the folder you will find a file with the name manifest.ini.  It is a plain text file, so can be opened for editing with any plain text editor of your choosing.  I use Notepad, but any text editor will do.
Once you have the file open for editing, search for the line that starts with:  lastTestedNVDAVersion =
You will be substituting the current NVDA version number for whatever is currently shown after the equal sign.  It is critical that there be a space after the ‘n’ in “version” as well as after the equal sign itself.  The NVDA version goes after that space after the equal sign. If you check out the line character by character after the ‘n’ in “version” as you found it, you’ll encounter those spaces.  Just make sure that the equal sign has a space before it, and after it.
This will trick NVDA into believing that the add-on has been tested up to and including the current NVDA version number.
If an add-on crashes or otherwise misbehaves after using this workaround, then work on its code will be required.
If you use this workaround, and become aware that a version of your add-on that has actually been tested with the latest version of NVDA has become available, definitely take the time to install the real version. Your doctored manifest.ini file will end up being overwritten as part of installing “the real thing.”
--
Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044
*/You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
/*     ~ Ursula LeGuin, /The Dispossessed/


Editing an NVDA Add-On Manifest file as a Temporary Workaround #adminnotice

 

Editing an NVDA Add-On Manifest file as a Temporary Workaround

Moderator's Note:
  This post is about exactly what it says, a temporary workaround.  This is NOT the way to truly fix add-on compatibility issues in many cases, but it will work as a temporary workaround for some in a pinch. You use these instructions completely at your own risk.

Note Well:  This will NOT always work when there is a backward compatibility breaking release of NVDA because, sometimes, add-on code must be changed.  But it sometimes works if nothing more than testing and certification is needed for a given add-on, and that’s a bit behind the actual NVDA release.  Also, the %APPDATA% folder is normally hidden, so if your machine objects to your trying to navigate there, you will have to take the steps to show hidden files and folders on your machine.

Your NVDA Add-Ons are found in the following folder:

%APPDATA%\nvda\addons

and you can type (or cut and paste) the exact path shown above into the Address combo box in File Explorer, and after hitting Enter that’s where you’ll be.  A list of folders corresponding to each of the add-ons you have installed will be in the file list.  Locate the add-on for which you wish to edit the manifest file and open its folder.

In the folder you will find a file with the name manifest.ini.  It is a plain text file, so can be opened for editing with any plain text editor of your choosing.  I use Notepad, but any text editor will do.

Once you have the file open for editing, search for the line that starts with:  lastTestedNVDAVersion =

You will be substituting the current NVDA version number for whatever is currently shown after the equal sign.  It is critical that there be a space after the ‘n’ in “version” as well as after the equal sign itself.  The NVDA version goes after that space after the equal sign.  If you check out the line character by character after the ‘n’ in “version” as you found it, you’ll encounter those spaces.  Just make sure that the equal sign has a space before it, and after it.

This will trick NVDA into believing that the add-on has been tested up to and including the current NVDA version number.

If an add-on crashes or otherwise misbehaves after using this workaround, then work on its code will be required.

If you use this workaround, and become aware that a version of your add-on that has actually been tested with the latest version of NVDA has become available, definitely take the time to install the real version.  Your doctored manifest.ini file will end up being overwritten as part of installing “the real thing.”

--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


Re: IMPORTANT: Clock and Calendar add-on is abandoned and end of support, no plans for future releases, use alternatives

Robert Doc Wright godfearer
 

I found it but it is not accessible.

On 5/23/2022 8:00 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Group,

When Joseph refers to other apps such as Windows 10/11 Alarms and Clock app, is this an NVDA app or is it something built into Windows itself?

On 5/23/2022 4:33 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi everyone,

I see that Clock and Calendar add-on is not showing as compatible with just released NVDA 2022.1. There is a story to that:

A few months ago, folks from NVDA add-ons community reached out to the original author of Clock add-on about add-on maintenance, and the author noted that he will not be able to maintain it. I, the last known maintainer of this add-on, have long ago abandoned maintenance of this add-on (back in December 2021) with no plans for NVDA 2022.1 compatibility then. The add-ons community was and still is looking for maintainers of this add-on. But for now:

I hereby announce that Clock and Calendar add-on is abandoned and end of support. There are no plans for future releases, and compatibility with future NVDA releases cannot be guaranteed. Please use alternatives such as Windows 10 and 11 Alarms and Clock app or other apps and services offering time keeping/calendar/stopwatch/timer features. The add-on may become supported again if new maintainers step forward to maintain this add-on.

Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph


-- 
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grevous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!
-- 
******
Sometimes I think I understand everything,  and then I regain consciousness. 
---------
Family Times theatre
http://familytimes.wrighthere.net:9244/stream 
or ask your smart speaker to play family times on tune-in


Re: NVDA 2022.1 and add-ons: compatibility updates

 

Hi,

Update as of May 23, 2022 (the day NVDA 2022.1 stable version was released): over 60 percent of add-ons registered on community add-ons website are showing as compatible with more updates on the way (at least four add-on updates were queued for distribution on community add-ons website as of this moment, and if things go well, Add-on Updater will offer them to you around this time tomorrow). My task for the next few days before I officially go offline in June: asking Add-on Updater to offer add-on updates to users. There may or may not be such a task in June (highly unlikely for my own physical and mental well-being, so if you are an add-on author and reading this message, consider May 27, 2022 as the last day to queue add-on updates for broad distribution for this round).

I will address the question of manifests in a separate post - I'm sort of on a writing spree before I crash again, and I will show you why editing manifests is not a long-term solution (hint: Python advances).

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: incompatible addons

Kyle McRorey
 

Ring

On Mon, May 23, 2022 at 11:29 AM farhan israk <fahim.net.2014@...> wrote:
Hello everyone,
The following addons are incompatible with nvda 2022.1. They are enhanced phonetic reader, speech history, spell check, unigram and vlc media player. Addon updater did not update them. Where can I find compatible versions of these addons?

I completely agree with that idea about ad on alligators checking the latest version for updates and for any problems that may physically impact the usage of the add-on with NVDA


Re: holding off on 2022.1 due to Code Factory dragging their feet

 

Wander if there needs to be an addon checker that will check an addon based on the latest and say what is a problem.

If its critical, or needed or will physically impact a user then bam you need to action it.

But if its not going to or its a well could be better or performance thing, modify the manafest and then you can fix it later.

For example I just modified ifinterpretors manafest and yeah it does work to a point, could be better but it does work.

Of course I don't play that much interactive fiction so I have not updated my runners for at least a year now as most of my games for that type are on the web or in twine or twine java.



On 24/05/2022 7:23 am, Rui Fontes wrote:

Firstly, it only happens when updating to a newer major version...

In the present case, from 2021.3.5 to 2022.1...


In spite of the necessary work to keep the maintained add-ons, and they are a few of them, the work supporting the NVDA portuguese speaking community to handle the problem, I think it is necessary...


And I suppose it will be difficult to get an automated test to see wich add-ons may be considered compatible without updating manifest.ini, since their code it was not affected by NVDA core code changes...


So, to allow NVDA to be updated and its code bettered, we have to support this small inconvenient once a year...


Best regards,

Rui Fontes
NVDA portuguese team



Às 20:15 de 23/05/2022, Tyler Wood escreveu:

As a random interjection I find it quite disturbing how easily add ons are losing compatibility from one minor version to the next. This is a trend I as a user am not a fan of. It means more work for developers, more issues by the end user if add ons become unsupported, or at least, unsupported according to NVDA itself, and less time to actually make improvements for the developers who are already placing their doubtlessly limited and free time into this wonderful hobby of creating resources for NVDA to take advantage of.

I am truly curious to know what I, as a user, am benefiting from with this so called fragmentation. Previously add ons would work without issue, now it’s a guessing game as to which add ons will be disabled and stop working when I’d like to update NVDA from, again, one minor version to the next.

 

As it stands right now, I’m running a portable version of the latest NVDA due to the above, with my main install remaining an older version. Am I alone in viewing this slightly worrying trend?

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of mattias
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2022 10:38 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] holding off on 2022.1 due to Code Factory dragging their feet

 

Lol we got the same answer..

 

Skickades från E-post för Windows

 

Från: Supanut Leepaisomboon
Skickat: den 23 maj 2022 12:18
Till: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Ämne: Re: [nvda] holding off on 2022.1 due to Code Factory dragging their feet

 

So I just got a reply from Codefactory, to a ticket regarding compatibility with NVDA 2022.1 that I submitted way back in April. Below is their response:
Good morning,
We are aware that a breaking NVDA update was released today.
We've been working on the addon, but unfortunately our update will take a few more days to complete.
Thank you for your patience.
The Code Factory technical team.

 

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