Date   

Re: Speech History Add-On

Sarah k Alawami
 

Ok, yep I knew mine was disabled so I went to the page thinking that maybe I had  missed an update or 10, nope, I didn’t even miss an update or 10. I don’t see any contact information on the add on page, unless I missed it, so can who ever it is, if they are on here please look into this, or if not, can someone ping the author? I’ll also  look at that nvda add ons site, the store thing to see if maybe a beta is up there.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2022 11:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] speach history add on

 

I tried installing it in the current NVDA version and it was blocked because it isn't compatible.

Gene

On 5/28/2022 1:39 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

I know that James Scholes  was the one who coded the add on, but it does not appear to be compatible with the latest NVDA. Can someone please tell me I’m wrong here? Here is the link to the add on on the nvda page.

 

https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/speech_history.en.html

 

I didn’t see it under legacy which is making me curious now.

 

Thanks. I also didn’t see it update in the add on updater which is odd as it I think has before but don’t quote me on that.

 


Re: NVDA Add-Ons - About Updating

Steve Wettlaufer
 

If you install the Add-on Updater add-on it will check for any available updates for you and then you can choose to install them when you're ready.  This only works for add-ons that are on the official NVDA page, so if you're using the Codefactory voices, for instance, it won't catch that.

Steve

On 2022-05-28 1:56 p.m., Danny Park wrote:
Is there any way to have all incompatible add-ins automatically updated or do you have to update them one at a time.


Thanks,

Danny





Re: Speech History Add-On

 

And, based on this post by the author in the NVDA Add-Ons group, https://nvda-addons.groups.io/g/nvda-addons/message/18933, it would appear that the only update that was required was to the manifest, in this case, and that a pull request is pending so that Add-On Updater will recognize the latest version.

A direct link to the latest version is also in that post for those who want to manually update.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


Re: NVDA Add-Ons - About Updating

 

If the add-ons are part of the community add-ons, and you have the Add-On Updater add-on installed, when compatible versions become available you will be notified and you go through the standard process to update.

If they are third-party add-ons, then you have to take care of it yourself.  This means, of course, for each third-party add-on individually.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


Re: Speech History Add-On

 

What's available at this very moment for the Speech History add-on is not compatible with NVDA 2022.1.  Even the add-on file includes 2021.1 in its name, which is a big hint.

I believe that Mr. Scholes may have been just the tiniest bit "late to the party" in issuing his official update.  See the GitHub Page for Speech History, where, as of the moment I'm typing this, there are entries for making it compatible with NVDA 2022.1 logged 21 hours ago.  An update is clearly in the pipeline.  I can't say precisely when it will exit said pipeline.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


Re: Speech History Add-On

Gene
 

I tried installing it in the current NVDA version and it was blocked because it isn't compatible.

Gene

On 5/28/2022 1:39 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

I know that James Scholes  was the one who coded the add on, but it does not appear to be compatible with the latest NVDA. Can someone please tell me I’m wrong here? Here is the link to the add on on the nvda page.

 

https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/speech_history.en.html

 

I didn’t see it under legacy which is making me curious now.

 

Thanks. I also didn’t see it update in the add on updater which is odd as it I think has before but don’t quote me on that.



Speech History Add-On

Sarah k Alawami
 

I know that James Scholes  was the one who coded the add on, but it does not appear to be compatible with the latest NVDA. Can someone please tell me I’m wrong here? Here is the link to the add on on the nvda page.

 

https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/speech_history.en.html

 

I didn’t see it under legacy which is making me curious now.

 

Thanks. I also didn’t see it update in the add on updater which is odd as it I think has before but don’t quote me on that.


NVDA Add-Ons - About Updating

Danny Park
 

Is there any way to have all incompatible add-ins automatically updated or do you have to update them one at a time.


Thanks,

Danny


locked Announcement Only: IBM TTS is not to be discussed on the NVDA Group #adminnotice

 

I am now gratified that there are several members who point this out on those occasions where it is brought up.  There is no legal version of this for use in conjunction with NVDA, and discussion of hacked/cracked/otherwise legally questionable software not only breaks our Group Rules, but also the Groups.io terms of service.

I cannot control, and would not dream of trying to control, what anyone discusses "off group."   So if you wish to discuss IBM TTS then please do so off group.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


Re: NVDA Malfunctions In Read-Only Text Boxes In Google Chrome When In Focus Mode

Sarah k Alawami
 

However in focus mode if you curser through the field you should be able to read in it.  I’ll have to check the next time I publish a youtube video, as that has a read only link. I was going to show a page to a we transfer file  I had already uploaded to see if we could get it to brake but sadly I cannot.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2022 7:41 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Malfunctions In Read-Only Text Boxes In Google Chrome When In Focus Mode

 

I'm not sure what you are working with.  It appears to be some sort of source code.  When I go to the page, I hear something like welcome to and then the name of an editor.

However, it appears to me that NVDA is working as expected.  A read only edit field is read only, you can't write in it.  Focus mode doesn't let you move in a web page unless you are in a field that allows movement, such as an edit field that allows you to write when in focus mode.  When in structures like combo boxes, you can move as well or in a list of radio buttons.  But the structure on the actual web page must allow you to move and I would think that by definition, a read only edit field wouldn't.  There is no cursor provided in the underlying page for a read only field, I would think.

Gene

On 5/28/2022 9:27 AM, Luke Robinett wrote:

Hi Gene. If you check out the issue page I linked to, I provide steps for how to reproduce the issue. Let me know if that works for you. Thanks!



On May 27, 2022, at 5:01 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

 Can you provide a link to a page with a read only edit field?  I don't recall sites that have them.  I probably just read the content and don't pay attention much if the field says read only.  I would ordinarily read text where I am not writing in browse mode.

I just tried the Google search field and I had no problem but that isn't a read only edit field.

Gene

On 5/27/2022 6:44 PM, Luke Robinett wrote:

In Google Chrome running on Windows 10 Home Edition, NVDA only announces the first character of whatever text is present when in focus mode and using the arrow keys to navigate by character inside read-only text boxes. For example, if the text box contains the word “Hello,” pressing the left or right arrow keys just results in NVDA saying “H.”

 

Similar behavior occurs in Microsoft Edge except NVDA says the word “blank” instead of the first character in the text box. This suggests it may be a broader issue with Chromium browsers. In Firefox, NVDA functions normally in read-only text boxes.

 

I’ve also opened a GitHub ticket for this issue which can be found here:

https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/13745

 

I searched existing closed and open issues prior to opening a new one and didn’t find a previous report of this issue. Please refer to my bug report for more details and background.

 

Thanks,

Luke

 

 

 


Re: NVDA Malfunctions In Read-Only Text Boxes In Google Chrome When In Focus Mode

Gene
 

I'm not sure what you are working with.  It appears to be some sort of source code.  When I go to the page, I hear something like welcome to and then the name of an editor.

However, it appears to me that NVDA is working as expected.  A read only edit field is read only, you can't write in it.  Focus mode doesn't let you move in a web page unless you are in a field that allows movement, such as an edit field that allows you to write when in focus mode.  When in structures like combo boxes, you can move as well or in a list of radio buttons.  But the structure on the actual web page must allow you to move and I would think that by definition, a read only edit field wouldn't.  There is no cursor provided in the underlying page for a read only field, I would think.

Gene

On 5/28/2022 9:27 AM, Luke Robinett wrote:
Hi Gene. If you check out the issue page I linked to, I provide steps for how to reproduce the issue. Let me know if that works for you. Thanks!

On May 27, 2022, at 5:01 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

 Can you provide a link to a page with a read only edit field?  I don't recall sites that have them.  I probably just read the content and don't pay attention much if the field says read only.  I would ordinarily read text where I am not writing in browse mode.

I just tried the Google search field and I had no problem but that isn't a read only edit field.

Gene

On 5/27/2022 6:44 PM, Luke Robinett wrote:

In Google Chrome running on Windows 10 Home Edition, NVDA only announces the first character of whatever text is present when in focus mode and using the arrow keys to navigate by character inside read-only text boxes. For example, if the text box contains the word “Hello,” pressing the left or right arrow keys just results in NVDA saying “H.”

 

Similar behavior occurs in Microsoft Edge except NVDA says the word “blank” instead of the first character in the text box. This suggests it may be a broader issue with Chromium browsers. In Firefox, NVDA functions normally in read-only text boxes.

 

I’ve also opened a GitHub ticket for this issue which can be found here:

https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/13745

 

I searched existing closed and open issues prior to opening a new one and didn’t find a previous report of this issue. Please refer to my bug report for more details and background.

 

Thanks,

Luke

 




Re: Please read before suggesting new add-ons or NVDA screen reader features: a contributor's assessment of 2022.1 and add-ons situation, open-source, anxiety, and burnout

Sarah k Alawami
 

Please do not discuss the IBMTTS  add on on here, it is not legal. Thanks.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Devin Prater
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2022 4:19 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Please read before suggesting new add-ons or NVDA screen reader features: a contributor's assessment of 2022.1 and add-ons situation, open-source, anxiety, and burnout

 

IBM TTS has been updated.



On May 28, 2022, at 3:20 AM, Joshua Hendrickson <louvins@...> wrote:

 

I don't know much about how programs work and what it takes to
properly update them. However, I have been using NVDA for years and
it is a great program. For some reason, I can't get my IBM TTS addon
to work, but thanks to some help, I now have other voices to choose
from. I'll be saving up for a new computer and when I get one I'll
probably spend money on the code factory stuff. It was my fault for
not paying attention to the list of addons that wouldn't work when I
updated my NVDA. I do have the addon updater installed which is very
cool. I could understand if Joseph couldn't work on certain addons
because of school obligations. I feel others who have the knoledge of
how to work with the various addons, should step up and help out and
get them updated. NVDA is such a great program and just as good as
jaws in my opinion.

On 5/28/22, William <
xsuper.sillyx@...> wrote:

Once again, thank you Joseph as well as other developers.


I think if NVDA allow user to run "non-compatible" addon as a temporary
measure would greatly improve the situation.


If the new breaking release of nvda does not affect the methods of
functions that the addon is relying on, addon author can just edit the
manifest file and release to the community.


However, the present situation is, even if it is just editing the
manifest file, we user has to wait for the author to release the new
version, unless the user is "well-educated" that he or she can edit the
manifest file on his or her own.









Joseph Lee
28/5/2022 00:05 寫道:


[Edited Message Follows]
[Reason: Spelling error fix, clarified NV Access staff membership (I,
Joseph Lee, am not an NV Access staff).]

Edit: I know that my message is circulating around. Let me make one
thing clear: I do NOT work for NV Access.

Dear NVDA community,

The following is something I usually do not post, nor it’s a style I
rarely show in a public forum like this. But after consulting forum
owners about the below content, I believe being honest and candid up
front can serve many purposes: healing for me and the community,
educational moment for everyone, and something to contemplate for a
long time. While I present myself as a professional developer, one of
the forum admins advised against it for the following content because
you, as my friends and NVDA family members, have the right to know the
thoughts going through my head these days. I also put a disclaimer that:

1. First and foremost, I am a graduate student studying for his
   master’s degree in communication studies (rhetoric, persuasion and
   influence, mass media, organizations, teaching and public
   speaking) and just finished first year of study. As such, I
   approach the following from both academic and insider point of view.
2. Some of what I say is strictly my own and does not represent the
   views of NV Access and contributors (I do not work for NV Access).

Let me start by giving a really honest assessment of the current
situation with NVDA 2022.1 and add-on compatibility picture: messy,
abundant miscommunication, ineffective coordination. If I’m to give a
grade to this work, it’s a solid “D”. It didn’t earn a “Fail” because
at least some of the most significant add-ons were updated prior to
the release of NVDA 2022.1 this week. It didn’t earn a “C” (passing)
because the overall work showed missed opportunities to improve
communication and coordination.

First, I am a communication studies scholar in training. While I am
not up to the level of doctoral students and professors, what I can
say is that the overall work makes me shake my head. NV Access framed
add-on breaking release as part of a “norm in software development”
due to dependency updates and security (NV Access, 2022). But when we
look at changes for developers section in NVDA 2022.1, the most
notable change has to do with adoption of Python enumerations in
control types facility. While Python does provide enumeration support
(Python Software Foundation, 2022), it can break add-ons not written
to take advantage of the new syntax. After a public outcry from add-on
developers, NV Access decided to introduce a compatibility layer,
effectively backtracking on control types refactor for now (Turner,
2022). This is one of the biggest factors in NVDA 2022.1 being
delayed, with the other factor being security releases (NVDA 2021.3.x0.

Of these, the first factor caused most confusion for community
members. While the community operates within the framework of “equal
access to technology”, it is really centered on NV Access. NVDA’s own
source code and About dialog states that “NVDA is developed by NV
Access” (NVDA 2022.1 source code, 2022), a nonprofit promoting equal
access to technology. While NV Access does promote third-party
contributions and acknowledges the power of third-party add-ons
written by developers, the overall structure still centers around NV
Access. As such, as far as organizational structure is concerned, NV
Access is seen as the leader and coordinator attempting to attract
stakeholders.

Since NV Access is seen as a leader and coordinator, signals from the
leader play a role in persuading the public and determining the
reputation of a larger organization. “Leaders must communicate right”,
writes MIT senior lecturer Elsbeth Johnson (Johnson, 2017). A missed
or improper signal from organizational leaders can have destructive
impact on members.

So where did the signals about add-on breaking release came from?
Ultimately it stems from a “ever perpetuating myth of progress.” When
we think of myths, we think of foundation stories and grand narratives
that defines a society or a culture. A myth can also function to
persuade the public about the status quo and a better future – the
messaging from public health officials, for instance, is vaccination
is our “way back to the days before the pandemic”. In a similar way,
organizational and community myths can describe the status quo and an
“idealized future”, made more powerful if community members share
history, visions of the past, present, and future, and community
boundaries (Rawlins, 2017). The myth of progress and change
demonstrates this as communities must understand the need for change,
or for that matter, a need for constantly changing things to keep up
with others.

In the case of NV Access and the latest add-on breaking release, NV
Access operated under the notion that it can make progress on equal
access to technology by keeping dependencies and code up to date.
While this leadership signal did work in 2020 when Python 2 was
declared end of life (Python Software Foundation, 2020), when a major
change was proposed and then backtracked in 2022, the myth of progress
was shattered. This led to a different signal, way late in the
development of NVDA 2022.1: we are listening. By then the community
members were under the impression that add-ons must be edited to take
advantage of control types refactor, and with that “change” gone,
members found themselves asking, “why and what now?” NV Access seems
to have learned from it, changing the strategy used to denote
deprecations in NVDA 2022.2 alpha changelog.

But NV Access alone isn’t immune from criticism: members of the
community played a “vital” role in causing mass confusion. Members of
the community simply believed that NV Access and NVDA contributors
must make changes, a form of “myth perpetuation.” In other words, NV
Access, code contributors, add-on authors, users, and other
stakeholders were unified under the assumption that progress is
“strictly a good thing even if it can bring negative consequences if
managed right.” The keyword is “managed right” – while scholars can
critique NV Access’s approach for add-on breaking release this year,
unless specified in the documentation, organizations are not strictly
run by a single person or an entity. If NVDA community promotes “equal
access to technology” and centers their messaging on users, users, too
bare responsibility for this messy situation. While people can also
ask add-on authors to take responsibility (people are right in this
statement), users who constantly ask screen reader developers, add-on
authors, and community members  to make progress (in this case,
progress on add-on compatibility) even if it leads to additional
emotional labor and burnout are not immune from criticism. In this
sense, I (the analyst and a member of the NVDA community) am not
immune from criticism either due to my messaging about compatibility
releases last year and downplaying the severity of the situation up
until NVDA 2022.1 was finally released.

What could have made the compatibility messaging more effective and
lasting was Python upgrades. In early 2021, NV Access, I, and several
contributors actually worked on Python 3.8 upgrade, which ended in
failure after discovering stack overflow problems. Since then, NV
Access has decided to stay on Python 3.7 until the cause of the stack
overflow (ctypes FFI (foreign function interface) issue, to be exact)
is resolved. While the 2022.1 compatibility breaking release did
emphasize control types refactor (using Python enumeration), the fact
that we are staying on Python 3.7, coupled with the mixed messaging
around control types refactor in 2021 and 2022 has diminished the
“progress” aspect of these releases. Therefore, my biggest
recommendation is to either hold off on compatibility breaking
releases until 2024, or if Python upgrade or a major dependency
upgrade is a must due to security and other factors, communicate
things better.

Second, as some of you may have noticed, I kept asking add-ons
community to do something about add-on compatibility and the messaging
involved. This became more noticeable this week with the release of
NVDA 2022.1, even going so far as offering to post add-on
compatibility data on a repository on behalf of add-on authors. After
thinking about it, I realized that some of this messaging was caused
by anxiety and me sometimes being an “obsessive perfectionist,”
leading to more stress and burnout. In short, I was operating under
the assumption that I must find updates to add-ons that are marked by
authors as compatible as quickly as possible, knowing that users
wanted assurance that their favorite add-ons are compatible with
latest changes. Also, because many of you receive add-on updates
through Add-on Updater, I realized that I must act fast to get
compatible add-on updates to hands of users as soon as possible.
Coupled with the upcoming vacation, this led me to me “flying around”
the community to get more add-on updates to you. In the midst of all
this, yesterday I asked myself, “why can’t I let the add-on
compatibility picture take shape by itself,” to which the answer was,
“I have become an obsessed perfectionist,” which partly explains why
I’ve been feeling anxious and burnout recently (graduate school did
play some role in anxiety and burnout, but in the immediate context,
obsession with getting more compatible add-ons out to you consumed me).

Third, I’m aware that folks want updated Clock and Calendar add-on,
and am aware that you also want Extended Winamp update as well as I am
the last person to work on it (last year). After thinking about it, I
decided to stick with my original decision for the Clock add-on:
discontinuation, hoping that someone will take care of it. As for
Extended Winamp, after assessing the situation, I decided that it
wasn’t worth it to release what really amounts to manifest edits. My
(professional) answer is that I simply do not have time to continue
maintaining these add-ons – as I communicated to everyone last year,
these add-ons are now in the hands of the community.

My unfiltered answer: go ahead and take care of these add-ons
yourselves. This is my way of saying, “I’m done with these add-ons,”
and I SERIOUSLY DO NOT HAVE TIME to maintain them. I have asked the
community for months to find new maintainers for these add-ons to no
avail, and the fact that NVDA 2022.1 was marketed as a compatibility
breaking release caused more anxiety for me and community members. I
have offered (or rather, threatened) to release compatibility updates
if no-one stepped up by the time NVDA 2022.1 was finalized (I say
“threatened” to highlight what happens when a person becomes so
desperate to a point where he/she/they lose their sense of self and
reality). I will not go into additional stress caused by graduate
school and performing duties for my school as it will take a long post
to describe it (anyone who went through master’s or doctoral degrees
can understand what I’m talking about).

I realize that this is a really shocking response from someone
passionate about add-ons, but I believe that shocks sometimes work to
change a community. But I want you, my beloved NVDA community members,
to know why I’m saying this before I disconnect from NVDA community
for a while: to educate yourselves on the dark side of open-source
development and the resulting physical and psychological effects.
Among the articles on this subject, the following should offer a
glimpse into what I’m actually feeling right now:

Why Open-Source Developers Are Burning Out | by Clive Thompson |
Better Programming
<https://betterprogramming.pub/why-open-source-developers-are-burning-out-1a860854884c>

While I don’t agree fully with the economics section, the article
describes in part what I’m actually feeling. The anxiety from the just
released NVDA 2022.1 changes for add-ons community, coupled with
graduate school education and upcoming life events, put a strain on
what I can do physically and mentally for the NVDA community.

Before I disconnect, besides needing to recharge, here is the real
reason for my vacation: I am at a point in graduate education where I
must carefully choose what to study and where to go to refine my
skills for the next five years or so; I am, of course, talking about
Ph.D. applications (for fall 2023). Anyone who looked into and
experienced doctoral programs should recognize what I’m saying – you
must meet good dissertation supervisor in a supportive community that
values your humanness, teaching and research skills, and networking
opportunities in order to succeed as a scholar. When I began my
current M.A. (master of arts) program, I knew that researching Ph.D.
programs is not a joking matter, and there will come a day when NVDA
development (both the screen reader and add-ons) can actually become a
roadblock. In other words, I can fully disclose that I’ve been feeling
a smaller version of stress and burnout since last summer; thankfully
I was able to put my “obsessive perfectionist” attitude to good use by
trying to persuade Microsoft to consider accessibility feedback with
Windows 11. Not this time – I must recharge in order to prepare for
long-term life goals (I hope what you read above (going into scholar
mode) tells you what I hope to become five to ten years down the road;
and this time, I will ask for pay as a consultant).

As I close my “NVDA development lab” for a while, I humbly state what
I thought was unthinkable to say until now: I need help, I need
freedom from the perpetual myth of progress and change, I need help in
overcoming the obsessive perfectionist attitude I found myself in, and
I need a way to (finally) leave NVDA community in more positive terms.
We (the NVDA community) must recognize that not all progress is
beneficial, we must work on a solution that does not bring down the
reputation of NVDA, and we must get away from the attitude that
developers are superheroes. I ask and plead with each and every one of
you to consider the effects of stress and burnout, learn to critically
analyze messages from organizations, and realize that we are
collectively responsible for the messy affair we found ourselves in
and work together on ways to move forward. If we do not critically
analyze the situation, we will witness increasing skill and resource
drain.

One more recommendation (or rather, something to do or not do):
throughout June 2022, please do not suggest new add-ons or new NVDA
screen reader features. Please use that month as a period of
reflection throughout the NVDA community. Please do not (ever) contact
me throughout June if your question or comment has anything to do with
NVDA and/or add-ons (not just Add-on Updater and Windows App
Essentials, but others are also off-limits that month) – I want to
talk about something completely different that month. Feel free to
contact me if you have Ph.D. program recommendations (specifically,
communication studies), want to talk about public speaking, or need
advice on graduate school and other academic endeavors (I’m offering
to coach people (especially college students) public speaking and
impromptu speaking skills).

Thank you.

References:

Localized Myth: Creating and Maintaining Persuasive Power |
enculturation <https://www.enculturation.net/localized_myth>

How to Communicate Clearly During Organizational Change (hbr.org)
<https://hbr.org/2017/06/how-to-communicate-clearly-during-organizational-change>

NV Access | In-Process March 21st 2022
<https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-march-21st-2022/>

nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io | We listened, re-introducing
controlTypes aliases.
<https://nvda-addons.groups.io/g/nvda-addons/topic/90329930#18537>

Have a safe and healthy June.

Cheers,

Joseph








-- 
Joshua Hendrickson

Joshua Hendrickson



 


Re: NVDA Malfunctions In Read-Only Text Boxes In Google Chrome When In Focus Mode

Luke Robinett
 

Hi Gene. If you check out the issue page I linked to, I provide steps for how to reproduce the issue. Let me know if that works for you. Thanks!

On May 27, 2022, at 5:01 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

 Can you provide a link to a page with a read only edit field?  I don't recall sites that have them.  I probably just read the content and don't pay attention much if the field says read only.  I would ordinarily read text where I am not writing in browse mode.

I just tried the Google search field and I had no problem but that isn't a read only edit field.

Gene

On 5/27/2022 6:44 PM, Luke Robinett wrote:

In Google Chrome running on Windows 10 Home Edition, NVDA only announces the first character of whatever text is present when in focus mode and using the arrow keys to navigate by character inside read-only text boxes. For example, if the text box contains the word “Hello,” pressing the left or right arrow keys just results in NVDA saying “H.”

 

Similar behavior occurs in Microsoft Edge except NVDA says the word “blank” instead of the first character in the text box. This suggests it may be a broader issue with Chromium browsers. In Firefox, NVDA functions normally in read-only text boxes.

 

I’ve also opened a GitHub ticket for this issue which can be found here:

https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/13745

 

I searched existing closed and open issues prior to opening a new one and didn’t find a previous report of this issue. Please refer to my bug report for more details and background.

 

Thanks,

Luke

 



Re: Inconsistency of reporting of heading information

William
 

I see, thanks.


Gene 於 28/5/2022 20:11 寫道:

If you move in different ways, the order in which information is presented will differ.  If you move to a visited link in one way, you will hear visited link announced before the link is read.  If you move another way, you will hear the link read first. 

I don't know the technical reason, but that is expected behavior.

Gene

On 5/28/2022 6:53 AM, William wrote:
Hello all,

I wanna know if this is a bug or normal behavior.

I am using nvda portable 2022.1 without any addon, default configuration


1. visit file:///C:/Program%20Files%20(x86)/NVDA/documentation/en/userGuide.html using your web broswer

2. press t to jump to the first table

3. press , to by pass the table, this time, nvda says '4.7. Reporting System Information heading level 3'

4. press down arrow and up arrow

5. nvda this time says 'heading level 3 4.7. Reporting System Information'

In the first situation, the heading level 3 is reported at the end, whereas the second situation the heading information is reported at the beginning.











Re: Please read before suggesting new add-ons or NVDA screen reader features: a contributor's assessment of 2022.1 and add-ons situation, open-source, anxiety, and burnout

Gene
 

I'm trying e-mail on my feature phone and I accidentally sent a blank message.

Gene

On 5/28/2022 8:25 AM, Gene via groups.io wrote:
IBM TTS has been updated.

On May 28, 2022, at 3:20 AM, Joshua Hendrickson <louvins@...> wrote:

I don't know much about how programs work and what it takes to
properly update them. However, I have been using NVDA for years and
it is a great program. For some reason, I can't get my IBM TTS addon
to work, but thanks to some help, I now have other voices to choose
from. I'll be saving up for a new computer and when I get one I'll
probably spend money on the code factory stuff. It was my fault for
not paying attention to the list of addons that wouldn't work when I
updated my NVDA. I do have the addon updater installed which is very
cool. I could understand if Joseph couldn't work on certain addons
because of school obligations. I feel others who have the knoledge of
how to work with the various addons, should step up and help out and
get them updated. NVDA is such a great program and just as good as
jaws in my opinion.

On 5/28/22, William <xsuper.sillyx@...> wrote:
Once again, thank you Joseph as well as other developers.


I think if NVDA allow user to run "non-compatible" addon as a temporary
measure would greatly improve the situation.


If the new breaking release of nvda does not affect the methods of
functions that the addon is relying on, addon author can just edit the
manifest file and release to the community.


However, the present situation is, even if it is just editing the
manifest file, we user has to wait for the author to release the new
version, unless the user is "well-educated" that he or she can edit the
manifest file on his or her own.









Joseph Lee 於 28/5/2022 00:05 寫道:

[Edited Message Follows]
[Reason: Spelling error fix, clarified NV Access staff membership (I,
Joseph Lee, am not an NV Access staff).]

Edit: I know that my message is circulating around. Let me make one
thing clear: I do NOT work for NV Access.

Dear NVDA community,

The following is something I usually do not post, nor it’s a style I
rarely show in a public forum like this. But after consulting forum
owners about the below content, I believe being honest and candid up
front can serve many purposes: healing for me and the community,
educational moment for everyone, and something to contemplate for a
long time. While I present myself as a professional developer, one of
the forum admins advised against it for the following content because
you, as my friends and NVDA family members, have the right to know the
thoughts going through my head these days. I also put a disclaimer that:

1. First and foremost, I am a graduate student studying for his
   master’s degree in communication studies (rhetoric, persuasion and
   influence, mass media, organizations, teaching and public
   speaking) and just finished first year of study. As such, I
   approach the following from both academic and insider point of view.
2. Some of what I say is strictly my own and does not represent the
   views of NV Access and contributors (I do not work for NV Access).

Let me start by giving a really honest assessment of the current
situation with NVDA 2022.1 and add-on compatibility picture: messy,
abundant miscommunication, ineffective coordination. If I’m to give a
grade to this work, it’s a solid “D”. It didn’t earn a “Fail” because
at least some of the most significant add-ons were updated prior to
the release of NVDA 2022.1 this week. It didn’t earn a “C” (passing)
because the overall work showed missed opportunities to improve
communication and coordination.

First, I am a communication studies scholar in training. While I am
not up to the level of doctoral students and professors, what I can
say is that the overall work makes me shake my head. NV Access framed
add-on breaking release as part of a “norm in software development”
due to dependency updates and security (NV Access, 2022). But when we
look at changes for developers section in NVDA 2022.1, the most
notable change has to do with adoption of Python enumerations in
control types facility. While Python does provide enumeration support
(Python Software Foundation, 2022), it can break add-ons not written
to take advantage of the new syntax. After a public outcry from add-on
developers, NV Access decided to introduce a compatibility layer,
effectively backtracking on control types refactor for now (Turner,
2022). This is one of the biggest factors in NVDA 2022.1 being
delayed, with the other factor being security releases (NVDA 2021.3.x0.

Of these, the first factor caused most confusion for community
members. While the community operates within the framework of “equal
access to technology”, it is really centered on NV Access. NVDA’s own
source code and About dialog states that “NVDA is developed by NV
Access” (NVDA 2022.1 source code, 2022), a nonprofit promoting equal
access to technology. While NV Access does promote third-party
contributions and acknowledges the power of third-party add-ons
written by developers, the overall structure still centers around NV
Access. As such, as far as organizational structure is concerned, NV
Access is seen as the leader and coordinator attempting to attract
stakeholders.

Since NV Access is seen as a leader and coordinator, signals from the
leader play a role in persuading the public and determining the
reputation of a larger organization. “Leaders must communicate right”,
writes MIT senior lecturer Elsbeth Johnson (Johnson, 2017). A missed
or improper signal from organizational leaders can have destructive
impact on members.

So where did the signals about add-on breaking release came from?
Ultimately it stems from a “ever perpetuating myth of progress.” When
we think of myths, we think of foundation stories and grand narratives
that defines a society or a culture. A myth can also function to
persuade the public about the status quo and a better future – the
messaging from public health officials, for instance, is vaccination
is our “way back to the days before the pandemic”. In a similar way,
organizational and community myths can describe the status quo and an
“idealized future”, made more powerful if community members share
history, visions of the past, present, and future, and community
boundaries (Rawlins, 2017). The myth of progress and change
demonstrates this as communities must understand the need for change,
or for that matter, a need for constantly changing things to keep up
with others.

In the case of NV Access and the latest add-on breaking release, NV
Access operated under the notion that it can make progress on equal
access to technology by keeping dependencies and code up to date.
While this leadership signal did work in 2020 when Python 2 was
declared end of life (Python Software Foundation, 2020), when a major
change was proposed and then backtracked in 2022, the myth of progress
was shattered. This led to a different signal, way late in the
development of NVDA 2022.1: we are listening. By then the community
members were under the impression that add-ons must be edited to take
advantage of control types refactor, and with that “change” gone,
members found themselves asking, “why and what now?” NV Access seems
to have learned from it, changing the strategy used to denote
deprecations in NVDA 2022.2 alpha changelog.

But NV Access alone isn’t immune from criticism: members of the
community played a “vital” role in causing mass confusion. Members of
the community simply believed that NV Access and NVDA contributors
must make changes, a form of “myth perpetuation.” In other words, NV
Access, code contributors, add-on authors, users, and other
stakeholders were unified under the assumption that progress is
“strictly a good thing even if it can bring negative consequences if
managed right.” The keyword is “managed right” – while scholars can
critique NV Access’s approach for add-on breaking release this year,
unless specified in the documentation, organizations are not strictly
run by a single person or an entity. If NVDA community promotes “equal
access to technology” and centers their messaging on users, users, too
bare responsibility for this messy situation. While people can also
ask add-on authors to take responsibility (people are right in this
statement), users who constantly ask screen reader developers, add-on
authors, and community members  to make progress (in this case,
progress on add-on compatibility) even if it leads to additional
emotional labor and burnout are not immune from criticism. In this
sense, I (the analyst and a member of the NVDA community) am not
immune from criticism either due to my messaging about compatibility
releases last year and downplaying the severity of the situation up
until NVDA 2022.1 was finally released.

What could have made the compatibility messaging more effective and
lasting was Python upgrades. In early 2021, NV Access, I, and several
contributors actually worked on Python 3.8 upgrade, which ended in
failure after discovering stack overflow problems. Since then, NV
Access has decided to stay on Python 3.7 until the cause of the stack
overflow (ctypes FFI (foreign function interface) issue, to be exact)
is resolved. While the 2022.1 compatibility breaking release did
emphasize control types refactor (using Python enumeration), the fact
that we are staying on Python 3.7, coupled with the mixed messaging
around control types refactor in 2021 and 2022 has diminished the
“progress” aspect of these releases. Therefore, my biggest
recommendation is to either hold off on compatibility breaking
releases until 2024, or if Python upgrade or a major dependency
upgrade is a must due to security and other factors, communicate
things better.

Second, as some of you may have noticed, I kept asking add-ons
community to do something about add-on compatibility and the messaging
involved. This became more noticeable this week with the release of
NVDA 2022.1, even going so far as offering to post add-on
compatibility data on a repository on behalf of add-on authors. After
thinking about it, I realized that some of this messaging was caused
by anxiety and me sometimes being an “obsessive perfectionist,”
leading to more stress and burnout. In short, I was operating under
the assumption that I must find updates to add-ons that are marked by
authors as compatible as quickly as possible, knowing that users
wanted assurance that their favorite add-ons are compatible with
latest changes. Also, because many of you receive add-on updates
through Add-on Updater, I realized that I must act fast to get
compatible add-on updates to hands of users as soon as possible.
Coupled with the upcoming vacation, this led me to me “flying around”
the community to get more add-on updates to you. In the midst of all
this, yesterday I asked myself, “why can’t I let the add-on
compatibility picture take shape by itself,” to which the answer was,
“I have become an obsessed perfectionist,” which partly explains why
I’ve been feeling anxious and burnout recently (graduate school did
play some role in anxiety and burnout, but in the immediate context,
obsession with getting more compatible add-ons out to you consumed me).

Third, I’m aware that folks want updated Clock and Calendar add-on,
and am aware that you also want Extended Winamp update as well as I am
the last person to work on it (last year). After thinking about it, I
decided to stick with my original decision for the Clock add-on:
discontinuation, hoping that someone will take care of it. As for
Extended Winamp, after assessing the situation, I decided that it
wasn’t worth it to release what really amounts to manifest edits. My
(professional) answer is that I simply do not have time to continue
maintaining these add-ons – as I communicated to everyone last year,
these add-ons are now in the hands of the community.

My unfiltered answer: go ahead and take care of these add-ons
yourselves. This is my way of saying, “I’m done with these add-ons,”
and I SERIOUSLY DO NOT HAVE TIME to maintain them. I have asked the
community for months to find new maintainers for these add-ons to no
avail, and the fact that NVDA 2022.1 was marketed as a compatibility
breaking release caused more anxiety for me and community members. I
have offered (or rather, threatened) to release compatibility updates
if no-one stepped up by the time NVDA 2022.1 was finalized (I say
“threatened” to highlight what happens when a person becomes so
desperate to a point where he/she/they lose their sense of self and
reality). I will not go into additional stress caused by graduate
school and performing duties for my school as it will take a long post
to describe it (anyone who went through master’s or doctoral degrees
can understand what I’m talking about).

I realize that this is a really shocking response from someone
passionate about add-ons, but I believe that shocks sometimes work to
change a community. But I want you, my beloved NVDA community members,
to know why I’m saying this before I disconnect from NVDA community
for a while: to educate yourselves on the dark side of open-source
development and the resulting physical and psychological effects.
Among the articles on this subject, the following should offer a
glimpse into what I’m actually feeling right now:

Why Open-Source Developers Are Burning Out | by Clive Thompson |
Better Programming
<https://betterprogramming.pub/why-open-source-developers-are-burning-out-1a860854884c>

While I don’t agree fully with the economics section, the article
describes in part what I’m actually feeling. The anxiety from the just
released NVDA 2022.1 changes for add-ons community, coupled with
graduate school education and upcoming life events, put a strain on
what I can do physically and mentally for the NVDA community.

Before I disconnect, besides needing to recharge, here is the real
reason for my vacation: I am at a point in graduate education where I
must carefully choose what to study and where to go to refine my
skills for the next five years or so; I am, of course, talking about
Ph.D. applications (for fall 2023). Anyone who looked into and
experienced doctoral programs should recognize what I’m saying – you
must meet good dissertation supervisor in a supportive community that
values your humanness, teaching and research skills, and networking
opportunities in order to succeed as a scholar. When I began my
current M.A. (master of arts) program, I knew that researching Ph.D.
programs is not a joking matter, and there will come a day when NVDA
development (both the screen reader and add-ons) can actually become a
roadblock. In other words, I can fully disclose that I’ve been feeling
a smaller version of stress and burnout since last summer; thankfully
I was able to put my “obsessive perfectionist” attitude to good use by
trying to persuade Microsoft to consider accessibility feedback with
Windows 11. Not this time – I must recharge in order to prepare for
long-term life goals (I hope what you read above (going into scholar
mode) tells you what I hope to become five to ten years down the road;
and this time, I will ask for pay as a consultant).

As I close my “NVDA development lab” for a while, I humbly state what
I thought was unthinkable to say until now: I need help, I need
freedom from the perpetual myth of progress and change, I need help in
overcoming the obsessive perfectionist attitude I found myself in, and
I need a way to (finally) leave NVDA community in more positive terms.
We (the NVDA community) must recognize that not all progress is
beneficial, we must work on a solution that does not bring down the
reputation of NVDA, and we must get away from the attitude that
developers are superheroes. I ask and plead with each and every one of
you to consider the effects of stress and burnout, learn to critically
analyze messages from organizations, and realize that we are
collectively responsible for the messy affair we found ourselves in
and work together on ways to move forward. If we do not critically
analyze the situation, we will witness increasing skill and resource
drain.

One more recommendation (or rather, something to do or not do):
throughout June 2022, please do not suggest new add-ons or new NVDA
screen reader features. Please use that month as a period of
reflection throughout the NVDA community. Please do not (ever) contact
me throughout June if your question or comment has anything to do with
NVDA and/or add-ons (not just Add-on Updater and Windows App
Essentials, but others are also off-limits that month) – I want to
talk about something completely different that month. Feel free to
contact me if you have Ph.D. program recommendations (specifically,
communication studies), want to talk about public speaking, or need
advice on graduate school and other academic endeavors (I’m offering
to coach people (especially college students) public speaking and
impromptu speaking skills).

Thank you.

References:

Localized Myth: Creating and Maintaining Persuasive Power |
enculturation <https://www.enculturation.net/localized_myth>

How to Communicate Clearly During Organizational Change (hbr.org)
<https://hbr.org/2017/06/how-to-communicate-clearly-during-organizational-change>

NV Access | In-Process March 21st 2022
<https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-march-21st-2022/>

nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io | We listened, re-introducing
controlTypes aliases.
<https://nvda-addons.groups.io/g/nvda-addons/topic/90329930#18537>

Have a safe and healthy June.

Cheers,

Joseph










-- 
Joshua Hendrickson

Joshua Hendrickson





Re: Please read before suggesting new add-ons or NVDA screen reader features: a contributor's assessment of 2022.1 and add-ons situation, open-source, anxiety, and burnout

Gene
 



nvda@nvda.groups.io wrote:

IBM TTS has been updated.

On May 28, 2022, at 3:20 AM, Joshua Hendrickson <louvins@...> wrote:

I don't know much about how programs work and what it takes to
properly update them. However, I have been using NVDA for years and
it is a great program. For some reason, I can't get my IBM TTS addon
to work, but thanks to some help, I now have other voices to choose
from. I'll be saving up for a new computer and when I get one I'll
probably spend money on the code factory stuff. It was my fault for
not paying attention to the list of addons that wouldn't work when I
updated my NVDA. I do have the addon updater installed which is very
cool. I could understand if Joseph couldn't work on certain addons
because of school obligations. I feel others who have the knoledge of
how to work with the various addons, should step up and help out and
get them updated. NVDA is such a great program and just as good as
jaws in my opinion.

On 5/28/22, William <xsuper.sillyx@...> wrote:
Once again, thank you Joseph as well as other developers.


I think if NVDA allow user to run "non-compatible" addon as a temporary
measure would greatly improve the situation.


If the new breaking release of nvda does not affect the methods of
functions that the addon is relying on, addon author can just edit the
manifest file and release to the community.


However, the present situation is, even if it is just editing the
manifest file, we user has to wait for the author to release the new
version, unless the user is "well-educated" that he or she can edit the
manifest file on his or her own.









Joseph Lee 於 28/5/2022 00:05 寫道:

[Edited Message Follows]
[Reason: Spelling error fix, clarified NV Access staff membership (I,
Joseph Lee, am not an NV Access staff).]

Edit: I know that my message is circulating around. Let me make one
thing clear: I do NOT work for NV Access.

Dear NVDA community,

The following is something I usually do not post, nor it’s a style I
rarely show in a public forum like this. But after consulting forum
owners about the below content, I believe being honest and candid up
front can serve many purposes: healing for me and the community,
educational moment for everyone, and something to contemplate for a
long time. While I present myself as a professional developer, one of
the forum admins advised against it for the following content because
you, as my friends and NVDA family members, have the right to know the
thoughts going through my head these days. I also put a disclaimer that:

1. First and foremost, I am a graduate student studying for his
   master’s degree in communication studies (rhetoric, persuasion and
   influence, mass media, organizations, teaching and public
   speaking) and just finished first year of study. As such, I
   approach the following from both academic and insider point of view.
2. Some of what I say is strictly my own and does not represent the
   views of NV Access and contributors (I do not work for NV Access).

Let me start by giving a really honest assessment of the current
situation with NVDA 2022.1 and add-on compatibility picture: messy,
abundant miscommunication, ineffective coordination. If I’m to give a
grade to this work, it’s a solid “D”. It didn’t earn a “Fail” because
at least some of the most significant add-ons were updated prior to
the release of NVDA 2022.1 this week. It didn’t earn a “C” (passing)
because the overall work showed missed opportunities to improve
communication and coordination.

First, I am a communication studies scholar in training. While I am
not up to the level of doctoral students and professors, what I can
say is that the overall work makes me shake my head. NV Access framed
add-on breaking release as part of a “norm in software development”
due to dependency updates and security (NV Access, 2022). But when we
look at changes for developers section in NVDA 2022.1, the most
notable change has to do with adoption of Python enumerations in
control types facility. While Python does provide enumeration support
(Python Software Foundation, 2022), it can break add-ons not written
to take advantage of the new syntax. After a public outcry from add-on
developers, NV Access decided to introduce a compatibility layer,
effectively backtracking on control types refactor for now (Turner,
2022). This is one of the biggest factors in NVDA 2022.1 being
delayed, with the other factor being security releases (NVDA 2021.3.x0.

Of these, the first factor caused most confusion for community
members. While the community operates within the framework of “equal
access to technology”, it is really centered on NV Access. NVDA’s own
source code and About dialog states that “NVDA is developed by NV
Access” (NVDA 2022.1 source code, 2022), a nonprofit promoting equal
access to technology. While NV Access does promote third-party
contributions and acknowledges the power of third-party add-ons
written by developers, the overall structure still centers around NV
Access. As such, as far as organizational structure is concerned, NV
Access is seen as the leader and coordinator attempting to attract
stakeholders.

Since NV Access is seen as a leader and coordinator, signals from the
leader play a role in persuading the public and determining the
reputation of a larger organization. “Leaders must communicate right”,
writes MIT senior lecturer Elsbeth Johnson (Johnson, 2017). A missed
or improper signal from organizational leaders can have destructive
impact on members.

So where did the signals about add-on breaking release came from?
Ultimately it stems from a “ever perpetuating myth of progress.” When
we think of myths, we think of foundation stories and grand narratives
that defines a society or a culture. A myth can also function to
persuade the public about the status quo and a better future – the
messaging from public health officials, for instance, is vaccination
is our “way back to the days before the pandemic”. In a similar way,
organizational and community myths can describe the status quo and an
“idealized future”, made more powerful if community members share
history, visions of the past, present, and future, and community
boundaries (Rawlins, 2017). The myth of progress and change
demonstrates this as communities must understand the need for change,
or for that matter, a need for constantly changing things to keep up
with others.

In the case of NV Access and the latest add-on breaking release, NV
Access operated under the notion that it can make progress on equal
access to technology by keeping dependencies and code up to date.
While this leadership signal did work in 2020 when Python 2 was
declared end of life (Python Software Foundation, 2020), when a major
change was proposed and then backtracked in 2022, the myth of progress
was shattered. This led to a different signal, way late in the
development of NVDA 2022.1: we are listening. By then the community
members were under the impression that add-ons must be edited to take
advantage of control types refactor, and with that “change” gone,
members found themselves asking, “why and what now?” NV Access seems
to have learned from it, changing the strategy used to denote
deprecations in NVDA 2022.2 alpha changelog.

But NV Access alone isn’t immune from criticism: members of the
community played a “vital” role in causing mass confusion. Members of
the community simply believed that NV Access and NVDA contributors
must make changes, a form of “myth perpetuation.” In other words, NV
Access, code contributors, add-on authors, users, and other
stakeholders were unified under the assumption that progress is
“strictly a good thing even if it can bring negative consequences if
managed right.” The keyword is “managed right” – while scholars can
critique NV Access’s approach for add-on breaking release this year,
unless specified in the documentation, organizations are not strictly
run by a single person or an entity. If NVDA community promotes “equal
access to technology” and centers their messaging on users, users, too
bare responsibility for this messy situation. While people can also
ask add-on authors to take responsibility (people are right in this
statement), users who constantly ask screen reader developers, add-on
authors, and community members  to make progress (in this case,
progress on add-on compatibility) even if it leads to additional
emotional labor and burnout are not immune from criticism. In this
sense, I (the analyst and a member of the NVDA community) am not
immune from criticism either due to my messaging about compatibility
releases last year and downplaying the severity of the situation up
until NVDA 2022.1 was finally released.

What could have made the compatibility messaging more effective and
lasting was Python upgrades. In early 2021, NV Access, I, and several
contributors actually worked on Python 3.8 upgrade, which ended in
failure after discovering stack overflow problems. Since then, NV
Access has decided to stay on Python 3.7 until the cause of the stack
overflow (ctypes FFI (foreign function interface) issue, to be exact)
is resolved. While the 2022.1 compatibility breaking release did
emphasize control types refactor (using Python enumeration), the fact
that we are staying on Python 3.7, coupled with the mixed messaging
around control types refactor in 2021 and 2022 has diminished the
“progress” aspect of these releases. Therefore, my biggest
recommendation is to either hold off on compatibility breaking
releases until 2024, or if Python upgrade or a major dependency
upgrade is a must due to security and other factors, communicate
things better.

Second, as some of you may have noticed, I kept asking add-ons
community to do something about add-on compatibility and the messaging
involved. This became more noticeable this week with the release of
NVDA 2022.1, even going so far as offering to post add-on
compatibility data on a repository on behalf of add-on authors. After
thinking about it, I realized that some of this messaging was caused
by anxiety and me sometimes being an “obsessive perfectionist,”
leading to more stress and burnout. In short, I was operating under
the assumption that I must find updates to add-ons that are marked by
authors as compatible as quickly as possible, knowing that users
wanted assurance that their favorite add-ons are compatible with
latest changes. Also, because many of you receive add-on updates
through Add-on Updater, I realized that I must act fast to get
compatible add-on updates to hands of users as soon as possible.
Coupled with the upcoming vacation, this led me to me “flying around”
the community to get more add-on updates to you. In the midst of all
this, yesterday I asked myself, “why can’t I let the add-on
compatibility picture take shape by itself,” to which the answer was,
“I have become an obsessed perfectionist,” which partly explains why
I’ve been feeling anxious and burnout recently (graduate school did
play some role in anxiety and burnout, but in the immediate context,
obsession with getting more compatible add-ons out to you consumed me).

Third, I’m aware that folks want updated Clock and Calendar add-on,
and am aware that you also want Extended Winamp update as well as I am
the last person to work on it (last year). After thinking about it, I
decided to stick with my original decision for the Clock add-on:
discontinuation, hoping that someone will take care of it. As for
Extended Winamp, after assessing the situation, I decided that it
wasn’t worth it to release what really amounts to manifest edits. My
(professional) answer is that I simply do not have time to continue
maintaining these add-ons – as I communicated to everyone last year,
these add-ons are now in the hands of the community.

My unfiltered answer: go ahead and take care of these add-ons
yourselves. This is my way of saying, “I’m done with these add-ons,”
and I SERIOUSLY DO NOT HAVE TIME to maintain them. I have asked the
community for months to find new maintainers for these add-ons to no
avail, and the fact that NVDA 2022.1 was marketed as a compatibility
breaking release caused more anxiety for me and community members. I
have offered (or rather, threatened) to release compatibility updates
if no-one stepped up by the time NVDA 2022.1 was finalized (I say
“threatened” to highlight what happens when a person becomes so
desperate to a point where he/she/they lose their sense of self and
reality). I will not go into additional stress caused by graduate
school and performing duties for my school as it will take a long post
to describe it (anyone who went through master’s or doctoral degrees
can understand what I’m talking about).

I realize that this is a really shocking response from someone
passionate about add-ons, but I believe that shocks sometimes work to
change a community. But I want you, my beloved NVDA community members,
to know why I’m saying this before I disconnect from NVDA community
for a while: to educate yourselves on the dark side of open-source
development and the resulting physical and psychological effects.
Among the articles on this subject, the following should offer a
glimpse into what I’m actually feeling right now:

Why Open-Source Developers Are Burning Out | by Clive Thompson |
Better Programming
<https://betterprogramming.pub/why-open-source-developers-are-burning-out-1a860854884c>

While I don’t agree fully with the economics section, the article
describes in part what I’m actually feeling. The anxiety from the just
released NVDA 2022.1 changes for add-ons community, coupled with
graduate school education and upcoming life events, put a strain on
what I can do physically and mentally for the NVDA community.

Before I disconnect, besides needing to recharge, here is the real
reason for my vacation: I am at a point in graduate education where I
must carefully choose what to study and where to go to refine my
skills for the next five years or so; I am, of course, talking about
Ph.D. applications (for fall 2023). Anyone who looked into and
experienced doctoral programs should recognize what I’m saying – you
must meet good dissertation supervisor in a supportive community that
values your humanness, teaching and research skills, and networking
opportunities in order to succeed as a scholar. When I began my
current M.A. (master of arts) program, I knew that researching Ph.D.
programs is not a joking matter, and there will come a day when NVDA
development (both the screen reader and add-ons) can actually become a
roadblock. In other words, I can fully disclose that I’ve been feeling
a smaller version of stress and burnout since last summer; thankfully
I was able to put my “obsessive perfectionist” attitude to good use by
trying to persuade Microsoft to consider accessibility feedback with
Windows 11. Not this time – I must recharge in order to prepare for
long-term life goals (I hope what you read above (going into scholar
mode) tells you what I hope to become five to ten years down the road;
and this time, I will ask for pay as a consultant).

As I close my “NVDA development lab” for a while, I humbly state what
I thought was unthinkable to say until now: I need help, I need
freedom from the perpetual myth of progress and change, I need help in
overcoming the obsessive perfectionist attitude I found myself in, and
I need a way to (finally) leave NVDA community in more positive terms.
We (the NVDA community) must recognize that not all progress is
beneficial, we must work on a solution that does not bring down the
reputation of NVDA, and we must get away from the attitude that
developers are superheroes. I ask and plead with each and every one of
you to consider the effects of stress and burnout, learn to critically
analyze messages from organizations, and realize that we are
collectively responsible for the messy affair we found ourselves in
and work together on ways to move forward. If we do not critically
analyze the situation, we will witness increasing skill and resource
drain.

One more recommendation (or rather, something to do or not do):
throughout June 2022, please do not suggest new add-ons or new NVDA
screen reader features. Please use that month as a period of
reflection throughout the NVDA community. Please do not (ever) contact
me throughout June if your question or comment has anything to do with
NVDA and/or add-ons (not just Add-on Updater and Windows App
Essentials, but others are also off-limits that month) – I want to
talk about something completely different that month. Feel free to
contact me if you have Ph.D. program recommendations (specifically,
communication studies), want to talk about public speaking, or need
advice on graduate school and other academic endeavors (I’m offering
to coach people (especially college students) public speaking and
impromptu speaking skills).

Thank you.

References:

Localized Myth: Creating and Maintaining Persuasive Power |
enculturation <https://www.enculturation.net/localized_myth>

How to Communicate Clearly During Organizational Change (hbr.org)
<https://hbr.org/2017/06/how-to-communicate-clearly-during-organizational-change>

NV Access | In-Process March 21st 2022
<https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-march-21st-2022/>

nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io | We listened, re-introducing
controlTypes aliases.
<https://nvda-addons.groups.io/g/nvda-addons/topic/90329930#18537>

Have a safe and healthy June.

Cheers,

Joseph










-- 
Joshua Hendrickson

Joshua Hendrickson




Re: Inconsistency of reporting of heading information

Gene
 

If you move in different ways, the order in which information is presented will differ.  If you move to a visited link in one way, you will hear visited link announced before the link is read.  If you move another way, you will hear the link read first. 

I don't know the technical reason, but that is expected behavior.

Gene

On 5/28/2022 6:53 AM, William wrote:
Hello all,

I wanna know if this is a bug or normal behavior.

I am using nvda portable 2022.1 without any addon, default configuration


1. visit file:///C:/Program%20Files%20(x86)/NVDA/documentation/en/userGuide.html using your web broswer

2. press t to jump to the first table

3. press , to by pass the table, this time, nvda says '4.7. Reporting System Information heading level 3'

4. press down arrow and up arrow

5. nvda this time says 'heading level 3 4.7. Reporting System Information'

In the first situation, the heading level 3 is reported at the end, whereas the second situation the heading information is reported at the beginning.











Inconsistency of reporting of heading information

William
 

Hello all,

I wanna know if this is a bug or normal behavior.

I am using nvda portable 2022.1 without any addon, default configuration


1. visit file:///C:/Program%20Files%20(x86)/NVDA/documentation/en/userGuide.html using your web broswer

2. press t to jump to the first table

3. press , to by pass the table, this time, nvda says '4.7. Reporting System Information heading level 3'

4. press down arrow and up arrow

5. nvda this time says 'heading level 3 4.7. Reporting System Information'

In the first situation, the heading level 3 is reported at the end, whereas the second situation the heading information is reported at the beginning.


Re: Please read before suggesting new add-ons or NVDA screen reader features: a contributor's assessment of 2022.1 and add-ons situation, open-source, anxiety, and burnout

Devin Prater
 

IBM TTS has been updated.

On May 28, 2022, at 3:20 AM, Joshua Hendrickson <louvins@...> wrote:

I don't know much about how programs work and what it takes to
properly update them. However, I have been using NVDA for years and
it is a great program. For some reason, I can't get my IBM TTS addon
to work, but thanks to some help, I now have other voices to choose
from. I'll be saving up for a new computer and when I get one I'll
probably spend money on the code factory stuff. It was my fault for
not paying attention to the list of addons that wouldn't work when I
updated my NVDA. I do have the addon updater installed which is very
cool. I could understand if Joseph couldn't work on certain addons
because of school obligations. I feel others who have the knoledge of
how to work with the various addons, should step up and help out and
get them updated. NVDA is such a great program and just as good as
jaws in my opinion.

On 5/28/22, William <xsuper.sillyx@...> wrote:
Once again, thank you Joseph as well as other developers.


I think if NVDA allow user to run "non-compatible" addon as a temporary
measure would greatly improve the situation.


If the new breaking release of nvda does not affect the methods of
functions that the addon is relying on, addon author can just edit the
manifest file and release to the community.


However, the present situation is, even if it is just editing the
manifest file, we user has to wait for the author to release the new
version, unless the user is "well-educated" that he or she can edit the
manifest file on his or her own.









Joseph Lee 於 28/5/2022 00:05 寫道:

[Edited Message Follows]
[Reason: Spelling error fix, clarified NV Access staff membership (I,
Joseph Lee, am not an NV Access staff).]

Edit: I know that my message is circulating around. Let me make one
thing clear: I do NOT work for NV Access.

Dear NVDA community,

The following is something I usually do not post, nor it’s a style I
rarely show in a public forum like this. But after consulting forum
owners about the below content, I believe being honest and candid up
front can serve many purposes: healing for me and the community,
educational moment for everyone, and something to contemplate for a
long time. While I present myself as a professional developer, one of
the forum admins advised against it for the following content because
you, as my friends and NVDA family members, have the right to know the
thoughts going through my head these days. I also put a disclaimer that:

1. First and foremost, I am a graduate student studying for his
   master’s degree in communication studies (rhetoric, persuasion and
   influence, mass media, organizations, teaching and public
   speaking) and just finished first year of study. As such, I
   approach the following from both academic and insider point of view.
2. Some of what I say is strictly my own and does not represent the
   views of NV Access and contributors (I do not work for NV Access).

Let me start by giving a really honest assessment of the current
situation with NVDA 2022.1 and add-on compatibility picture: messy,
abundant miscommunication, ineffective coordination. If I’m to give a
grade to this work, it’s a solid “D”. It didn’t earn a “Fail” because
at least some of the most significant add-ons were updated prior to
the release of NVDA 2022.1 this week. It didn’t earn a “C” (passing)
because the overall work showed missed opportunities to improve
communication and coordination.

First, I am a communication studies scholar in training. While I am
not up to the level of doctoral students and professors, what I can
say is that the overall work makes me shake my head. NV Access framed
add-on breaking release as part of a “norm in software development”
due to dependency updates and security (NV Access, 2022). But when we
look at changes for developers section in NVDA 2022.1, the most
notable change has to do with adoption of Python enumerations in
control types facility. While Python does provide enumeration support
(Python Software Foundation, 2022), it can break add-ons not written
to take advantage of the new syntax. After a public outcry from add-on
developers, NV Access decided to introduce a compatibility layer,
effectively backtracking on control types refactor for now (Turner,
2022). This is one of the biggest factors in NVDA 2022.1 being
delayed, with the other factor being security releases (NVDA 2021.3.x0.

Of these, the first factor caused most confusion for community
members. While the community operates within the framework of “equal
access to technology”, it is really centered on NV Access. NVDA’s own
source code and About dialog states that “NVDA is developed by NV
Access” (NVDA 2022.1 source code, 2022), a nonprofit promoting equal
access to technology. While NV Access does promote third-party
contributions and acknowledges the power of third-party add-ons
written by developers, the overall structure still centers around NV
Access. As such, as far as organizational structure is concerned, NV
Access is seen as the leader and coordinator attempting to attract
stakeholders.

Since NV Access is seen as a leader and coordinator, signals from the
leader play a role in persuading the public and determining the
reputation of a larger organization. “Leaders must communicate right”,
writes MIT senior lecturer Elsbeth Johnson (Johnson, 2017). A missed
or improper signal from organizational leaders can have destructive
impact on members.

So where did the signals about add-on breaking release came from?
Ultimately it stems from a “ever perpetuating myth of progress.” When
we think of myths, we think of foundation stories and grand narratives
that defines a society or a culture. A myth can also function to
persuade the public about the status quo and a better future – the
messaging from public health officials, for instance, is vaccination
is our “way back to the days before the pandemic”. In a similar way,
organizational and community myths can describe the status quo and an
“idealized future”, made more powerful if community members share
history, visions of the past, present, and future, and community
boundaries (Rawlins, 2017). The myth of progress and change
demonstrates this as communities must understand the need for change,
or for that matter, a need for constantly changing things to keep up
with others.

In the case of NV Access and the latest add-on breaking release, NV
Access operated under the notion that it can make progress on equal
access to technology by keeping dependencies and code up to date.
While this leadership signal did work in 2020 when Python 2 was
declared end of life (Python Software Foundation, 2020), when a major
change was proposed and then backtracked in 2022, the myth of progress
was shattered. This led to a different signal, way late in the
development of NVDA 2022.1: we are listening. By then the community
members were under the impression that add-ons must be edited to take
advantage of control types refactor, and with that “change” gone,
members found themselves asking, “why and what now?” NV Access seems
to have learned from it, changing the strategy used to denote
deprecations in NVDA 2022.2 alpha changelog.

But NV Access alone isn’t immune from criticism: members of the
community played a “vital” role in causing mass confusion. Members of
the community simply believed that NV Access and NVDA contributors
must make changes, a form of “myth perpetuation.” In other words, NV
Access, code contributors, add-on authors, users, and other
stakeholders were unified under the assumption that progress is
“strictly a good thing even if it can bring negative consequences if
managed right.” The keyword is “managed right” – while scholars can
critique NV Access’s approach for add-on breaking release this year,
unless specified in the documentation, organizations are not strictly
run by a single person or an entity. If NVDA community promotes “equal
access to technology” and centers their messaging on users, users, too
bare responsibility for this messy situation. While people can also
ask add-on authors to take responsibility (people are right in this
statement), users who constantly ask screen reader developers, add-on
authors, and community members  to make progress (in this case,
progress on add-on compatibility) even if it leads to additional
emotional labor and burnout are not immune from criticism. In this
sense, I (the analyst and a member of the NVDA community) am not
immune from criticism either due to my messaging about compatibility
releases last year and downplaying the severity of the situation up
until NVDA 2022.1 was finally released.

What could have made the compatibility messaging more effective and
lasting was Python upgrades. In early 2021, NV Access, I, and several
contributors actually worked on Python 3.8 upgrade, which ended in
failure after discovering stack overflow problems. Since then, NV
Access has decided to stay on Python 3.7 until the cause of the stack
overflow (ctypes FFI (foreign function interface) issue, to be exact)
is resolved. While the 2022.1 compatibility breaking release did
emphasize control types refactor (using Python enumeration), the fact
that we are staying on Python 3.7, coupled with the mixed messaging
around control types refactor in 2021 and 2022 has diminished the
“progress” aspect of these releases. Therefore, my biggest
recommendation is to either hold off on compatibility breaking
releases until 2024, or if Python upgrade or a major dependency
upgrade is a must due to security and other factors, communicate
things better.

Second, as some of you may have noticed, I kept asking add-ons
community to do something about add-on compatibility and the messaging
involved. This became more noticeable this week with the release of
NVDA 2022.1, even going so far as offering to post add-on
compatibility data on a repository on behalf of add-on authors. After
thinking about it, I realized that some of this messaging was caused
by anxiety and me sometimes being an “obsessive perfectionist,”
leading to more stress and burnout. In short, I was operating under
the assumption that I must find updates to add-ons that are marked by
authors as compatible as quickly as possible, knowing that users
wanted assurance that their favorite add-ons are compatible with
latest changes. Also, because many of you receive add-on updates
through Add-on Updater, I realized that I must act fast to get
compatible add-on updates to hands of users as soon as possible.
Coupled with the upcoming vacation, this led me to me “flying around”
the community to get more add-on updates to you. In the midst of all
this, yesterday I asked myself, “why can’t I let the add-on
compatibility picture take shape by itself,” to which the answer was,
“I have become an obsessed perfectionist,” which partly explains why
I’ve been feeling anxious and burnout recently (graduate school did
play some role in anxiety and burnout, but in the immediate context,
obsession with getting more compatible add-ons out to you consumed me).

Third, I’m aware that folks want updated Clock and Calendar add-on,
and am aware that you also want Extended Winamp update as well as I am
the last person to work on it (last year). After thinking about it, I
decided to stick with my original decision for the Clock add-on:
discontinuation, hoping that someone will take care of it. As for
Extended Winamp, after assessing the situation, I decided that it
wasn’t worth it to release what really amounts to manifest edits. My
(professional) answer is that I simply do not have time to continue
maintaining these add-ons – as I communicated to everyone last year,
these add-ons are now in the hands of the community.

My unfiltered answer: go ahead and take care of these add-ons
yourselves. This is my way of saying, “I’m done with these add-ons,”
and I SERIOUSLY DO NOT HAVE TIME to maintain them. I have asked the
community for months to find new maintainers for these add-ons to no
avail, and the fact that NVDA 2022.1 was marketed as a compatibility
breaking release caused more anxiety for me and community members. I
have offered (or rather, threatened) to release compatibility updates
if no-one stepped up by the time NVDA 2022.1 was finalized (I say
“threatened” to highlight what happens when a person becomes so
desperate to a point where he/she/they lose their sense of self and
reality). I will not go into additional stress caused by graduate
school and performing duties for my school as it will take a long post
to describe it (anyone who went through master’s or doctoral degrees
can understand what I’m talking about).

I realize that this is a really shocking response from someone
passionate about add-ons, but I believe that shocks sometimes work to
change a community. But I want you, my beloved NVDA community members,
to know why I’m saying this before I disconnect from NVDA community
for a while: to educate yourselves on the dark side of open-source
development and the resulting physical and psychological effects.
Among the articles on this subject, the following should offer a
glimpse into what I’m actually feeling right now:

Why Open-Source Developers Are Burning Out | by Clive Thompson |
Better Programming
<https://betterprogramming.pub/why-open-source-developers-are-burning-out-1a860854884c>

While I don’t agree fully with the economics section, the article
describes in part what I’m actually feeling. The anxiety from the just
released NVDA 2022.1 changes for add-ons community, coupled with
graduate school education and upcoming life events, put a strain on
what I can do physically and mentally for the NVDA community.

Before I disconnect, besides needing to recharge, here is the real
reason for my vacation: I am at a point in graduate education where I
must carefully choose what to study and where to go to refine my
skills for the next five years or so; I am, of course, talking about
Ph.D. applications (for fall 2023). Anyone who looked into and
experienced doctoral programs should recognize what I’m saying – you
must meet good dissertation supervisor in a supportive community that
values your humanness, teaching and research skills, and networking
opportunities in order to succeed as a scholar. When I began my
current M.A. (master of arts) program, I knew that researching Ph.D.
programs is not a joking matter, and there will come a day when NVDA
development (both the screen reader and add-ons) can actually become a
roadblock. In other words, I can fully disclose that I’ve been feeling
a smaller version of stress and burnout since last summer; thankfully
I was able to put my “obsessive perfectionist” attitude to good use by
trying to persuade Microsoft to consider accessibility feedback with
Windows 11. Not this time – I must recharge in order to prepare for
long-term life goals (I hope what you read above (going into scholar
mode) tells you what I hope to become five to ten years down the road;
and this time, I will ask for pay as a consultant).

As I close my “NVDA development lab” for a while, I humbly state what
I thought was unthinkable to say until now: I need help, I need
freedom from the perpetual myth of progress and change, I need help in
overcoming the obsessive perfectionist attitude I found myself in, and
I need a way to (finally) leave NVDA community in more positive terms.
We (the NVDA community) must recognize that not all progress is
beneficial, we must work on a solution that does not bring down the
reputation of NVDA, and we must get away from the attitude that
developers are superheroes. I ask and plead with each and every one of
you to consider the effects of stress and burnout, learn to critically
analyze messages from organizations, and realize that we are
collectively responsible for the messy affair we found ourselves in
and work together on ways to move forward. If we do not critically
analyze the situation, we will witness increasing skill and resource
drain.

One more recommendation (or rather, something to do or not do):
throughout June 2022, please do not suggest new add-ons or new NVDA
screen reader features. Please use that month as a period of
reflection throughout the NVDA community. Please do not (ever) contact
me throughout June if your question or comment has anything to do with
NVDA and/or add-ons (not just Add-on Updater and Windows App
Essentials, but others are also off-limits that month) – I want to
talk about something completely different that month. Feel free to
contact me if you have Ph.D. program recommendations (specifically,
communication studies), want to talk about public speaking, or need
advice on graduate school and other academic endeavors (I’m offering
to coach people (especially college students) public speaking and
impromptu speaking skills).

Thank you.

References:

Localized Myth: Creating and Maintaining Persuasive Power |
enculturation <https://www.enculturation.net/localized_myth>

How to Communicate Clearly During Organizational Change (hbr.org)
<https://hbr.org/2017/06/how-to-communicate-clearly-during-organizational-change>

NV Access | In-Process March 21st 2022
<https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-march-21st-2022/>

nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io | We listened, re-introducing
controlTypes aliases.
<https://nvda-addons.groups.io/g/nvda-addons/topic/90329930#18537>

Have a safe and healthy June.

Cheers,

Joseph










-- 
Joshua Hendrickson

Joshua Hendrickson




Re: Please read before suggesting new add-ons or NVDA screen reader features: a contributor's assessment of 2022.1 and add-ons situation, open-source, anxiety, and burnout

Joshua Hendrickson
 

I don't know much about how programs work and what it takes to
properly update them. However, I have been using NVDA for years and
it is a great program. For some reason, I can't get my IBM TTS addon
to work, but thanks to some help, I now have other voices to choose
from. I'll be saving up for a new computer and when I get one I'll
probably spend money on the code factory stuff. It was my fault for
not paying attention to the list of addons that wouldn't work when I
updated my NVDA. I do have the addon updater installed which is very
cool. I could understand if Joseph couldn't work on certain addons
because of school obligations. I feel others who have the knoledge of
how to work with the various addons, should step up and help out and
get them updated. NVDA is such a great program and just as good as
jaws in my opinion.

On 5/28/22, William <xsuper.sillyx@...> wrote:
Once again, thank you Joseph as well as other developers.


I think if NVDA allow user to run "non-compatible" addon as a temporary
measure would greatly improve the situation.


If the new breaking release of nvda does not affect the methods of
functions that the addon is relying on, addon author can just edit the
manifest file and release to the community.


However, the present situation is, even if it is just editing the
manifest file, we user has to wait for the author to release the new
version, unless the user is "well-educated" that he or she can edit the
manifest file on his or her own.









Joseph Lee 於 28/5/2022 00:05 寫道:

[Edited Message Follows]
[Reason: Spelling error fix, clarified NV Access staff membership (I,
Joseph Lee, am not an NV Access staff).]

Edit: I know that my message is circulating around. Let me make one
thing clear: I do NOT work for NV Access.

Dear NVDA community,

The following is something I usually do not post, nor it’s a style I
rarely show in a public forum like this. But after consulting forum
owners about the below content, I believe being honest and candid up
front can serve many purposes: healing for me and the community,
educational moment for everyone, and something to contemplate for a
long time. While I present myself as a professional developer, one of
the forum admins advised against it for the following content because
you, as my friends and NVDA family members, have the right to know the
thoughts going through my head these days. I also put a disclaimer that:

1. First and foremost, I am a graduate student studying for his
master’s degree in communication studies (rhetoric, persuasion and
influence, mass media, organizations, teaching and public
speaking) and just finished first year of study. As such, I
approach the following from both academic and insider point of view.
2. Some of what I say is strictly my own and does not represent the
views of NV Access and contributors (I do not work for NV Access).

Let me start by giving a really honest assessment of the current
situation with NVDA 2022.1 and add-on compatibility picture: messy,
abundant miscommunication, ineffective coordination. If I’m to give a
grade to this work, it’s a solid “D”. It didn’t earn a “Fail” because
at least some of the most significant add-ons were updated prior to
the release of NVDA 2022.1 this week. It didn’t earn a “C” (passing)
because the overall work showed missed opportunities to improve
communication and coordination.

First, I am a communication studies scholar in training. While I am
not up to the level of doctoral students and professors, what I can
say is that the overall work makes me shake my head. NV Access framed
add-on breaking release as part of a “norm in software development”
due to dependency updates and security (NV Access, 2022). But when we
look at changes for developers section in NVDA 2022.1, the most
notable change has to do with adoption of Python enumerations in
control types facility. While Python does provide enumeration support
(Python Software Foundation, 2022), it can break add-ons not written
to take advantage of the new syntax. After a public outcry from add-on
developers, NV Access decided to introduce a compatibility layer,
effectively backtracking on control types refactor for now (Turner,
2022). This is one of the biggest factors in NVDA 2022.1 being
delayed, with the other factor being security releases (NVDA 2021.3.x0.

Of these, the first factor caused most confusion for community
members. While the community operates within the framework of “equal
access to technology”, it is really centered on NV Access. NVDA’s own
source code and About dialog states that “NVDA is developed by NV
Access” (NVDA 2022.1 source code, 2022), a nonprofit promoting equal
access to technology. While NV Access does promote third-party
contributions and acknowledges the power of third-party add-ons
written by developers, the overall structure still centers around NV
Access. As such, as far as organizational structure is concerned, NV
Access is seen as the leader and coordinator attempting to attract
stakeholders.

Since NV Access is seen as a leader and coordinator, signals from the
leader play a role in persuading the public and determining the
reputation of a larger organization. “Leaders must communicate right”,
writes MIT senior lecturer Elsbeth Johnson (Johnson, 2017). A missed
or improper signal from organizational leaders can have destructive
impact on members.

So where did the signals about add-on breaking release came from?
Ultimately it stems from a “ever perpetuating myth of progress.” When
we think of myths, we think of foundation stories and grand narratives
that defines a society or a culture. A myth can also function to
persuade the public about the status quo and a better future – the
messaging from public health officials, for instance, is vaccination
is our “way back to the days before the pandemic”. In a similar way,
organizational and community myths can describe the status quo and an
“idealized future”, made more powerful if community members share
history, visions of the past, present, and future, and community
boundaries (Rawlins, 2017). The myth of progress and change
demonstrates this as communities must understand the need for change,
or for that matter, a need for constantly changing things to keep up
with others.

In the case of NV Access and the latest add-on breaking release, NV
Access operated under the notion that it can make progress on equal
access to technology by keeping dependencies and code up to date.
While this leadership signal did work in 2020 when Python 2 was
declared end of life (Python Software Foundation, 2020), when a major
change was proposed and then backtracked in 2022, the myth of progress
was shattered. This led to a different signal, way late in the
development of NVDA 2022.1: we are listening. By then the community
members were under the impression that add-ons must be edited to take
advantage of control types refactor, and with that “change” gone,
members found themselves asking, “why and what now?” NV Access seems
to have learned from it, changing the strategy used to denote
deprecations in NVDA 2022.2 alpha changelog.

But NV Access alone isn’t immune from criticism: members of the
community played a “vital” role in causing mass confusion. Members of
the community simply believed that NV Access and NVDA contributors
must make changes, a form of “myth perpetuation.” In other words, NV
Access, code contributors, add-on authors, users, and other
stakeholders were unified under the assumption that progress is
“strictly a good thing even if it can bring negative consequences if
managed right.” The keyword is “managed right” – while scholars can
critique NV Access’s approach for add-on breaking release this year,
unless specified in the documentation, organizations are not strictly
run by a single person or an entity. If NVDA community promotes “equal
access to technology” and centers their messaging on users, users, too
bare responsibility for this messy situation. While people can also
ask add-on authors to take responsibility (people are right in this
statement), users who constantly ask screen reader developers, add-on
authors, and community members  to make progress (in this case,
progress on add-on compatibility) even if it leads to additional
emotional labor and burnout are not immune from criticism. In this
sense, I (the analyst and a member of the NVDA community) am not
immune from criticism either due to my messaging about compatibility
releases last year and downplaying the severity of the situation up
until NVDA 2022.1 was finally released.

What could have made the compatibility messaging more effective and
lasting was Python upgrades. In early 2021, NV Access, I, and several
contributors actually worked on Python 3.8 upgrade, which ended in
failure after discovering stack overflow problems. Since then, NV
Access has decided to stay on Python 3.7 until the cause of the stack
overflow (ctypes FFI (foreign function interface) issue, to be exact)
is resolved. While the 2022.1 compatibility breaking release did
emphasize control types refactor (using Python enumeration), the fact
that we are staying on Python 3.7, coupled with the mixed messaging
around control types refactor in 2021 and 2022 has diminished the
“progress” aspect of these releases. Therefore, my biggest
recommendation is to either hold off on compatibility breaking
releases until 2024, or if Python upgrade or a major dependency
upgrade is a must due to security and other factors, communicate
things better.

Second, as some of you may have noticed, I kept asking add-ons
community to do something about add-on compatibility and the messaging
involved. This became more noticeable this week with the release of
NVDA 2022.1, even going so far as offering to post add-on
compatibility data on a repository on behalf of add-on authors. After
thinking about it, I realized that some of this messaging was caused
by anxiety and me sometimes being an “obsessive perfectionist,”
leading to more stress and burnout. In short, I was operating under
the assumption that I must find updates to add-ons that are marked by
authors as compatible as quickly as possible, knowing that users
wanted assurance that their favorite add-ons are compatible with
latest changes. Also, because many of you receive add-on updates
through Add-on Updater, I realized that I must act fast to get
compatible add-on updates to hands of users as soon as possible.
Coupled with the upcoming vacation, this led me to me “flying around”
the community to get more add-on updates to you. In the midst of all
this, yesterday I asked myself, “why can’t I let the add-on
compatibility picture take shape by itself,” to which the answer was,
“I have become an obsessed perfectionist,” which partly explains why
I’ve been feeling anxious and burnout recently (graduate school did
play some role in anxiety and burnout, but in the immediate context,
obsession with getting more compatible add-ons out to you consumed me).

Third, I’m aware that folks want updated Clock and Calendar add-on,
and am aware that you also want Extended Winamp update as well as I am
the last person to work on it (last year). After thinking about it, I
decided to stick with my original decision for the Clock add-on:
discontinuation, hoping that someone will take care of it. As for
Extended Winamp, after assessing the situation, I decided that it
wasn’t worth it to release what really amounts to manifest edits. My
(professional) answer is that I simply do not have time to continue
maintaining these add-ons – as I communicated to everyone last year,
these add-ons are now in the hands of the community.

My unfiltered answer: go ahead and take care of these add-ons
yourselves. This is my way of saying, “I’m done with these add-ons,”
and I SERIOUSLY DO NOT HAVE TIME to maintain them. I have asked the
community for months to find new maintainers for these add-ons to no
avail, and the fact that NVDA 2022.1 was marketed as a compatibility
breaking release caused more anxiety for me and community members. I
have offered (or rather, threatened) to release compatibility updates
if no-one stepped up by the time NVDA 2022.1 was finalized (I say
“threatened” to highlight what happens when a person becomes so
desperate to a point where he/she/they lose their sense of self and
reality). I will not go into additional stress caused by graduate
school and performing duties for my school as it will take a long post
to describe it (anyone who went through master’s or doctoral degrees
can understand what I’m talking about).

I realize that this is a really shocking response from someone
passionate about add-ons, but I believe that shocks sometimes work to
change a community. But I want you, my beloved NVDA community members,
to know why I’m saying this before I disconnect from NVDA community
for a while: to educate yourselves on the dark side of open-source
development and the resulting physical and psychological effects.
Among the articles on this subject, the following should offer a
glimpse into what I’m actually feeling right now:

Why Open-Source Developers Are Burning Out | by Clive Thompson |
Better Programming
<https://betterprogramming.pub/why-open-source-developers-are-burning-out-1a860854884c>

While I don’t agree fully with the economics section, the article
describes in part what I’m actually feeling. The anxiety from the just
released NVDA 2022.1 changes for add-ons community, coupled with
graduate school education and upcoming life events, put a strain on
what I can do physically and mentally for the NVDA community.

Before I disconnect, besides needing to recharge, here is the real
reason for my vacation: I am at a point in graduate education where I
must carefully choose what to study and where to go to refine my
skills for the next five years or so; I am, of course, talking about
Ph.D. applications (for fall 2023). Anyone who looked into and
experienced doctoral programs should recognize what I’m saying – you
must meet good dissertation supervisor in a supportive community that
values your humanness, teaching and research skills, and networking
opportunities in order to succeed as a scholar. When I began my
current M.A. (master of arts) program, I knew that researching Ph.D.
programs is not a joking matter, and there will come a day when NVDA
development (both the screen reader and add-ons) can actually become a
roadblock. In other words, I can fully disclose that I’ve been feeling
a smaller version of stress and burnout since last summer; thankfully
I was able to put my “obsessive perfectionist” attitude to good use by
trying to persuade Microsoft to consider accessibility feedback with
Windows 11. Not this time – I must recharge in order to prepare for
long-term life goals (I hope what you read above (going into scholar
mode) tells you what I hope to become five to ten years down the road;
and this time, I will ask for pay as a consultant).

As I close my “NVDA development lab” for a while, I humbly state what
I thought was unthinkable to say until now: I need help, I need
freedom from the perpetual myth of progress and change, I need help in
overcoming the obsessive perfectionist attitude I found myself in, and
I need a way to (finally) leave NVDA community in more positive terms.
We (the NVDA community) must recognize that not all progress is
beneficial, we must work on a solution that does not bring down the
reputation of NVDA, and we must get away from the attitude that
developers are superheroes. I ask and plead with each and every one of
you to consider the effects of stress and burnout, learn to critically
analyze messages from organizations, and realize that we are
collectively responsible for the messy affair we found ourselves in
and work together on ways to move forward. If we do not critically
analyze the situation, we will witness increasing skill and resource
drain.

One more recommendation (or rather, something to do or not do):
throughout June 2022, please do not suggest new add-ons or new NVDA
screen reader features. Please use that month as a period of
reflection throughout the NVDA community. Please do not (ever) contact
me throughout June if your question or comment has anything to do with
NVDA and/or add-ons (not just Add-on Updater and Windows App
Essentials, but others are also off-limits that month) – I want to
talk about something completely different that month. Feel free to
contact me if you have Ph.D. program recommendations (specifically,
communication studies), want to talk about public speaking, or need
advice on graduate school and other academic endeavors (I’m offering
to coach people (especially college students) public speaking and
impromptu speaking skills).

Thank you.

References:

Localized Myth: Creating and Maintaining Persuasive Power |
enculturation <https://www.enculturation.net/localized_myth>

How to Communicate Clearly During Organizational Change (hbr.org)
<https://hbr.org/2017/06/how-to-communicate-clearly-during-organizational-change>

NV Access | In-Process March 21st 2022
<https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-march-21st-2022/>

nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io | We listened, re-introducing
controlTypes aliases.
<https://nvda-addons.groups.io/g/nvda-addons/topic/90329930#18537>

Have a safe and healthy June.

Cheers,

Joseph





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Joshua Hendrickson

Joshua Hendrickson

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