Date   

Re: help with an edit field

Sarah k Alawami
 

By this point I would just call aira and have them fill out the form for you, you would have gotten it done much much faster, then you can advocate to the company as to why x and or y needs fixing.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Carlos Medrano
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 11:55 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

You may be able to use NVDA's mouse tracking feature with positional tones to help you draw it, but it's not perfect / really convenient to do so. Positional tones can be toggled in the mouse category in the NVDA settings dialogue.


On 5/29/2022 1:45 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Using David's method, I managed to get it to work, but what I was
hoping to have happen, which was the address fields already being
populated, did not happen even with the fields chosen as hoped. Quick
question, the site requires a signature, either printed and sent back
to them, or electronically. The problem is the signature has to be
drawn with the mouse. Is there a way to sign such documents with NVDA,
or do I need to use the print copy?

On 5/29/22, Carlos Medrano <crlsmdrn@...> wrote:
Nice idea to try object navigation. I tried document review mode, but
that really didn't help me; it's something worth trying.


Regarding bug versus flaw: The reason why I stated it as a bug was
because an attempt was done to try and make the field accessible as
shown by the ARIA help messages. Maybe the field was accessible once
upon a time, but an update to part of the stack they're using broke
the field's accessibility. This is pure speculation on my part, but
I'm speaking from personal experience that updates to code libraries
can cause things to break in strange and unusual ways sometimes.
Moreover, when hitting the arrows to go up and down the list would
just say undefined for me. In JavaScript, `undefined` is a data type
that uninitialized variables have by default.


On 5/29/2022 1:06 PM, Gene wrote:
You can use the method David described in both edit fields but you
may get more results in the key word field. I typed Chicago in the
other edit field and only got one. I typed Chicago in the key word
field and got four.

Gene

On 5/29/2022 12:52 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Thanks David, I'll try that. Btw, as someone trying to get into the
accessibility testing field, I completely agree with you.

On 5/29/22, David Goldfield<david.goldfield@...> wrote:
This is a terribly designed autocomplete. However, there is a
workaround but it involves using object navigation.
Start typing in the first few letters of the desired school. Once
you do this use your numeric keypad, assuming that you have a
full-size keyboard, and press insert numpad-4 to move across the
objects until you hear NVDA announce the word "list."
Once you hear this press insert numpad-2 to drill down into that list.
Insert numpad-6 should move from one item to the next in the list
of schools.
When you hear the school that you want press insert numpad-enter
to select it.
Next, navigate with the tab key to the Continue button and select it.
If you don't have a full-size keyboard I'm afraid you'll either
need to look up the laptop equivalents for these hotkeys or use a
full-size keyboard as I will admit that I never learned the laptop
layout.



David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist [JAWS Certified,
2022]<https://www.freedomscientific.com/Training/Certification>
NVDA Certified Expert<https://certification.nvaccess.org/>

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events
and information regarding the blindness assistive technology field.
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io> www.DavidGoldfield.org<http://www.DavidGoldfield.org>

From:nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 12:19 PM To:nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

You didn't cause one. it isn't your responsibility if people
disagree about something you said if you aren't expressing
something you think is controversial. In addition, a little
controversy even if you say something people may disagree with, is
alright as long as you are staying within the list rules. I may
express an opinion about a program, for example, that is
controversial. There are going to be disagreements.

Gene
On 5/29/2022 11:13 AM, mike mcglashon wrote:
I apologize;
I did not mean to cause a rift.

Please advise as you like.

Mike M.

Mike mcglashon
Email:Michael.mcglashon@...<mailto:Michael.mcglashon@comca
st.net>
Ph: 618 783 9331

From:nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 12:04 PM
To:nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

That's a real example of both civility and intellectual open mindedness.
I
didn't know you harbor such hostility toward me.

If you can't be civil and you refuse to discuss what I say without
attacking me, don't bother.

Your last message displays a logical fallacy. You said that you
are confident no one in the accessibility field will agree with
me. So what?
That is arguing from authority and doesn't prove anything. How
many people believed the world was flat before Columbuss?

You have not, in either answer, presented any reasons for
believing what you believe. You just say what you believe.

Gene
On 5/29/2022 10:51 AM, David Goldfield wrote:
Lack of accessibility isn't an error? I am quite certain that
nobody in the accessibility field will agree with you but I am
done with this conversation. You are free to respond to this if
you like but I will, unfortunately, resume my habit of skipping
your messages so your response will not be read by me.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist [JAWS Certified,
2022]<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A
%2F%2Fwww.freedomscientific.com%2FTraining%2FCertification&data=05
%7C01%7C%7C1baaf78b57114cc6394608da418ef031%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435
aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637894379430394978%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8
eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D
%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=SHZjCk2t46f9R5TLLSOWj7G8zlHe9Kw%2FMKan51aQD
Cg%3D&reserved=0>
NVDA Certified
Expert<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3
A%2F%2Fcertification.nvaccess.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7C1baaf78b571
14cc6394608da418ef031%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7
C637894379430394978%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLC
JQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata
=%2BNmyxupOiXNI0qDvNpKXcHM59JaxOnCwDiJbajrp%2BOA%3D&reserved=0>

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com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidgoldfield.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7C
1baaf78b57114cc6394608da418ef031%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaa
a%7C1%7C0%7C637894379430394978%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4
wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%
7C%7C&sdata=wriqv0LU5qL5sQ3NXv6oJ%2BXIMYrzD2%2BwwXM6fIkUGqE%3D&res
erved=0>

From:nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 11:46 AM
To:nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

I didn't say anything about what other words someone might want to
use, but bug is not correct. You might want to call it a flaw or
an omission, or use some sort of word or phrase that indicates
that it is no longer acceptable not to include accessibility, but
it isn't a bug.

One definition from Google I just looked up is:
"an error in a computer program or system."

Lack of accessibility isn't an error. It may be unconscionable,
unacceptable or you may wish to use other wording, but it is not
an error.

Gene
On 5/29/2022 10:27 AM, David Goldfield wrote:
Gene wrote:
I don't consider lack of accessibility to be a bug.
As an accessibility tester I disagree. I understand what you are
saying in your example of a stove which doesn't take inclusive
design into account.
However, if you have a Web site which has no labels on form fields
or which doesn't expose an edit field to a screen reader this is
definitely considered a bug or defect and needs to be treated as
such.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist [JAWS Certified,
2022]<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A
%2F%2Fwww.freedomscientific.com%2FTraining%2FCertification&data=05
%7C01%7C%7C1baaf78b57114cc6394608da418ef031%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435
aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637894379430394978%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8
eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D
%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=SHZjCk2t46f9R5TLLSOWj7G8zlHe9Kw%2FMKan51aQD
Cg%3D&reserved=0>
NVDA Certified
Expert<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3
A%2F%2Fcertification.nvaccess.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7C1baaf78b571
14cc6394608da418ef031%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7
C637894379430394978%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLC
JQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata
=%2BNmyxupOiXNI0qDvNpKXcHM59JaxOnCwDiJbajrp%2BOA%3D&reserved=0>

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com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidgoldfield.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7C
1baaf78b57114cc6394608da418ef031%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaa
a%7C1%7C0%7C637894379430394978%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4
wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%
7C%7C&sdata=wriqv0LU5qL5sQ3NXv6oJ%2BXIMYrzD2%2BwwXM6fIkUGqE%3D&res
erved=0>

From:nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 9:03 AM
To:nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

I don't consider lack of accessibility to be a bug. A bug is an
unintended behavior. Saying a lack of accessibility is a bug
implies that the item was intended to be accessible but isn't
because of unanticipated problem or problems.

If a stove isn't accessible and isn't designed to be, that isn't a bug.
You
may call it a flaw, a serious flaw, you may describe it as you
wish in terms of advocating for more accessibility, but it isn't a
bug. It is operating as designed.

If my stove is designed to be accessible and the speech is giving
inaccurate numbers as I move through settings, that is a bug.

Gene
On 5/29/2022 7:49 AM, mike mcglashon wrote:
Quoting:
On considering this further, I don't know if this is a bug in anything.
It may be that the results shown as you move aren't announced
because the function isn't designed to be accessible.
end quote:

Wow, wouldn't that be considered a "major" bug then? Or, At least
a "big flaw"?
Isn't that bad if someone designs a control on a page to be
purposefully inaccessible?
(especially a school clearing house)?

Just curious?

Please advise as you like.

Mike M.

Mike mcglashon
Email:Michael.mcglashon@...<mailto:Michael.mcglashon@comca
st.net>
Ph: 618 783 9331

From:nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 8:41 AM
To:nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

It appears i was wrong about the edit field. It appears to be a
standard edit field. I didn't hear anything about number of
results and moving up and down, as I recall. I did try using the
search field where you enter a key word to find your school and I
then got results like yours.

I figured out how to find a school name. Its a little work but
you can accomplish this in the following way:
Follow the key word search link.
An edit field will become available. If you are not in forms mode
go into forms mode. Just pressing enter where you are after
following the link should do it.
Be in forms mode in the key word search edit field.
Type a word such as Chicago.
You will hear how many results there are.
Down arrow to the first one. You won't hear the school read but
you will hear that you are on the first result.
Press enter. You have now placed the name in the field you are in
and it can be read while in forms mode. I don't recall if you
automatically hear it but you can use read current line or maybe
just pressing the down or up arrow will read it.
If that is not the result you want, select all, control a, and
press delete.
Write Chicago again.
Down arrow to the second result and press enter.
Again, you will be able to hear the word.
Follow this procedure until you hear the name you want.
Once you do, it is in the field it should be in and you can then
activate the continue button, which will now be available.

On considering this further, I don't know if this is a bug in anything.
It
may be that the results shown as you move aren't announced because
the function isn't designed to be accessible.

Gene
On 5/29/2022 7:07 AM, Gene via groups.io wrote:
No, it isn't standard. I had to press enter on select a school to
make the field editable in the first place. Then I had to press
enter again, since I am using manual switching in NVDA, to go into
forms mode. You may have to as well, since you are in a field
that is not initially editable.

As far as the select a school edit field is concerned, is that the
field you are discussing? I'll look at the field again but I
thought I heard select a number when I was

Gene
On 5/28/2022 11:36 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Yes, that's standard edit commands. However, when I start typing
the

name of a school, NVDA says "this is an auto complete element and

there are # results available. Keyboard users, use up and down
arrows

to select an option." The # in the example is, as one might guess,
an

actual number. However, when using up and down arrow with NVDA in

focus mode, I just get the same auto complete message and NVDA
reads

what I've already typed in, it won't let me actually choose a result.

The question is how do I actually choose a result as intended?



On 5/28/22, Gene<gsasner@...><mailto:gsasner@...> wrote:

When you are on the line that says enter the name of the school,
press

enter. That makes the field editable and you can then press enter
again

to go into focus mode if you aren't automatically placed in it.



Gene



On 5/28/2022 10:07 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Hi all,

Is the edit field on this page not a conventional one? I play
Heardle

every day, and it looks like the edit box on this page should work

similar to that one, but I can't seem to get the one here to work.
All

I hear is NVDA telling me that this is an edit box that contains

multiple selections, and how many results are available, but I
can't

seem to choose any results. The same happens when you're trying to

select a school to send to, and I suspect I won't have to enter as

much information as it's asking for if I could choose a result.
Any

help on this would be appreciated, as I've put this off for two
weeks

already. The link is

https://tsorder.studentclearinghouse.org/school/select<https://nam
12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftsorder.stu
dentclearinghouse.org%2Fschool%2Fselect&data=05%7C01%7C%7C1baaf78b
57114cc6394608da418ef031%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C
0%7C637894379430394978%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDA
iLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sd
ata=ppsCr2d3mM8hzU%2BJodqelW%2FhHgQl5exhAolXaB%2FYiSU%3D&reserved=
0>

Thanks,

Bob



























.


















Re: Code Factory Add-on

Sarah k Alawami
 

If you bought from AtGuys sign in, go to account and drill down the table until you find your cf item, then click the link.

Good luckl.l

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of E.T. via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 10:49 AM
To: NVDA <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] Code Factory Add-on

Hi all,
Just updated to 2022/1 and my Code Factory add-on is gone again.
Couple questions. One, is Code Factory still available for this version?
If so, can someone give me a link to download a compatible Code Factory version? Thought I had link but it points me to an old version of Code Factory. Thanks.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
--John F. Kennedy
My e-Mail:
Ancient.Aliens@...


Re: help with an edit field

Carlos Medrano
 

You may be able to use NVDA's mouse tracking feature with positional tones to help you draw it, but it's not perfect / really convenient to do so. Positional tones can be toggled in the mouse category in the NVDA settings dialogue.

On 5/29/2022 1:45 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Using David's method, I managed to get it to work, but what I was
hoping to have happen, which was the address fields already being
populated, did not happen even with the fields chosen as hoped. Quick
question, the site requires a signature, either printed and sent back
to them, or electronically. The problem is the signature has to be
drawn with the mouse. Is there a way to sign such documents with NVDA,
or do I need to use the print copy?

On 5/29/22, Carlos Medrano <crlsmdrn@...> wrote:
Nice idea to try object navigation. I tried document review mode, but
that really didn't help me; it's something worth trying.


Regarding bug versus flaw: The reason why I stated it as a bug was
because an attempt was done to try and make the field accessible as
shown by the ARIA help messages. Maybe the field was accessible once
upon a time, but an update to part of the stack they're using broke the
field's accessibility. This is pure speculation on my part, but I'm
speaking from personal experience that updates to code libraries can
cause things to break in strange and unusual ways sometimes. Moreover,
when hitting the arrows to go up and down the list would just say
undefined for me. In JavaScript, `undefined` is a data type that
uninitialized variables have by default.


On 5/29/2022 1:06 PM, Gene wrote:
You can use the method David described in both edit fields but you may
get more results in the key word field.  I typed Chicago in the other
edit field and only got one.  I typed Chicago in the key word field
and got four.

Gene

On 5/29/2022 12:52 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Thanks David, I'll try that. Btw, as someone trying to get into the
accessibility testing field, I completely agree with you.

On 5/29/22, David Goldfield<david.goldfield@...> wrote:
This is a terribly designed autocomplete. However, there is a workaround
but
it involves using object navigation.
Start typing in the first few letters of the desired school. Once you
do
this use your numeric keypad, assuming that you have a full-size
keyboard,
and press insert numpad-4 to move across the objects until you hear
NVDA
announce the word "list."
Once you hear this press insert numpad-2 to drill down into that list.
Insert numpad-6 should move from one item to the next in the list of
schools.
When you hear the school that you want press insert numpad-enter to
select
it.
Next, navigate with the tab key to the Continue button and select it.
If you don't have a full-size keyboard I'm afraid you'll either need to
look
up the laptop equivalents for these hotkeys or use a full-size keyboard
as I
will admit that I never learned the laptop layout.



David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
[JAWS Certified,
2022]<https://www.freedomscientific.com/Training/Certification>
NVDA Certified Expert<https://certification.nvaccess.org/>

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and
information regarding the blindness assistive technology field.
Email:tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io<mailto:tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io>
www.DavidGoldfield.org<http://www.DavidGoldfield.org>

From:nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 12:19 PM
To:nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

You didn't cause one. it isn't your responsibility if people disagree
about
something you said if you aren't expressing something you think is
controversial. In addition, a little controversy even if you say
something
people may disagree with, is alright as long as you are staying within
the
list rules. I may express an opinion about a program, for example, that
is
controversial. There are going to be disagreements.

Gene
On 5/29/2022 11:13 AM, mike mcglashon wrote:
I apologize;
I did not mean to cause a rift.

Please advise as you like.

Mike M.

Mike mcglashon
Email:Michael.mcglashon@...<mailto:Michael.mcglashon@...>
Ph: 618 783 9331

From:nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 12:04 PM
To:nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

That's a real example of both civility and intellectual open mindedness.
I
didn't know you harbor such hostility toward me.

If you can't be civil and you refuse to discuss what I say without
attacking
me, don't bother.

Your last message displays a logical fallacy. You said that you are
confident no one in the accessibility field will agree with me. So
what?
That is arguing from authority and doesn't prove anything. How many
people
believed the world was flat before Columbuss?

You have not, in either answer, presented any reasons for believing what
you
believe. You just say what you believe.

Gene
On 5/29/2022 10:51 AM, David Goldfield wrote:
Lack of accessibility isn't an error? I am quite certain that nobody in
the
accessibility field will agree with you but I am done with this
conversation. You are free to respond to this if you like but I will,
unfortunately, resume my habit of skipping your messages so your
response
will not be read by me.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
[JAWS Certified,
2022]<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.freedomscientific.com%2FTraining%2FCertification&data=05%7C01%7C%7C1baaf78b57114cc6394608da418ef031%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637894379430394978%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=SHZjCk2t46f9R5TLLSOWj7G8zlHe9Kw%2FMKan51aQDCg%3D&reserved=0>
NVDA Certified
Expert<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcertification.nvaccess.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7C1baaf78b57114cc6394608da418ef031%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637894379430394978%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=%2BNmyxupOiXNI0qDvNpKXcHM59JaxOnCwDiJbajrp%2BOA%3D&reserved=0>

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From:nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 11:46 AM
To:nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

I didn't say anything about what other words someone might want to use,
but
bug is not correct. You might want to call it a flaw or an omission, or
use
some sort of word or phrase that indicates that it is no longer
acceptable
not to include accessibility, but it isn't a bug.

One definition from Google I just looked up is:
"an error in a computer program or system."

Lack of accessibility isn't an error. It may be unconscionable,
unacceptable or you may wish to use other wording, but it is not an
error.

Gene
On 5/29/2022 10:27 AM, David Goldfield wrote:
Gene wrote:
I don't consider lack of accessibility to be a bug.
As an accessibility tester I disagree. I understand what you are saying
in
your example of a stove which doesn't take inclusive design into
account.
However, if you have a Web site which has no labels on form fields or
which
doesn't expose an edit field to a screen reader this is definitely
considered a bug or defect and needs to be treated as such.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
[JAWS Certified,
2022]<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.freedomscientific.com%2FTraining%2FCertification&data=05%7C01%7C%7C1baaf78b57114cc6394608da418ef031%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637894379430394978%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=SHZjCk2t46f9R5TLLSOWj7G8zlHe9Kw%2FMKan51aQDCg%3D&reserved=0>
NVDA Certified
Expert<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcertification.nvaccess.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7C1baaf78b57114cc6394608da418ef031%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637894379430394978%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=%2BNmyxupOiXNI0qDvNpKXcHM59JaxOnCwDiJbajrp%2BOA%3D&reserved=0>

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From:nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 9:03 AM
To:nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

I don't consider lack of accessibility to be a bug. A bug is an
unintended
behavior. Saying a lack of accessibility is a bug implies that the item
was
intended to be accessible but isn't because of unanticipated problem or
problems.

If a stove isn't accessible and isn't designed to be, that isn't a bug.
You
may call it a flaw, a serious flaw, you may describe it as you wish in
terms
of advocating for more accessibility, but it isn't a bug. It is
operating
as designed.

If my stove is designed to be accessible and the speech is giving
inaccurate
numbers as I move through settings, that is a bug.

Gene
On 5/29/2022 7:49 AM, mike mcglashon wrote:
Quoting:
On considering this further, I don't know if this is a bug in anything.
It may be that the results shown as you move aren't announced because
the
function isn't designed to be accessible.
end quote:

Wow, wouldn't that be considered a "major" bug then? Or,
At least a "big flaw"?
Isn't that bad if someone designs a control on a page to be
purposefully
inaccessible?
(especially a school clearing house)?

Just curious?

Please advise as you like.

Mike M.

Mike mcglashon
Email:Michael.mcglashon@...<mailto:Michael.mcglashon@...>
Ph: 618 783 9331

From:nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 8:41 AM
To:nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

It appears i was wrong about the edit field. It appears to be a
standard
edit field. I didn't hear anything about number of results and moving
up
and down, as I recall. I did try using the search field where you enter
a
key word to find your school and I then got results like yours.

I figured out how to find a school name. Its a little work but you can
accomplish this in the following way:
Follow the key word search link.
An edit field will become available. If you are not in forms mode go
into
forms mode. Just pressing enter where you are after following the link
should do it.
Be in forms mode in the key word search edit field.
Type a word such as Chicago.
You will hear how many results there are.
Down arrow to the first one. You won't hear the school read but you
will
hear that you are on the first result.
Press enter. You have now placed the name in the field you are in and
it
can be read while in forms mode. I don't recall if you automatically
hear
it but you can use read current line or maybe just pressing the down or
up
arrow will read it.
If that is not the result you want, select all, control a, and press
delete.
Write Chicago again.
Down arrow to the second result and press enter.
Again, you will be able to hear the word.
Follow this procedure until you hear the name you want.
Once you do, it is in the field it should be in and you can then
activate
the continue button, which will now be available.

On considering this further, I don't know if this is a bug in anything.
It
may be that the results shown as you move aren't announced because the
function isn't designed to be accessible.

Gene
On 5/29/2022 7:07 AM, Gene via groups.io wrote:
No, it isn't standard. I had to press enter on select a school to make
the
field editable in the first place. Then I had to press enter again,
since
I am using manual switching in NVDA, to go into forms mode. You may
have to
as well, since you are in a field that is not initially editable.

As far as the select a school edit field is concerned, is that the field
you
are discussing? I'll look at the field again but I thought I heard
select
a number when I was

Gene
On 5/28/2022 11:36 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Yes, that's standard edit commands. However, when I start typing the

name of a school, NVDA says "this is an auto complete element and

there are # results available. Keyboard users, use up and down arrows

to select an option." The # in the example is, as one might guess, an

actual number. However, when using up and down arrow with NVDA in

focus mode, I just get the same auto complete message and NVDA reads

what I've already typed in, it won't let me actually choose a result.

The question is how do I actually choose a result as intended?



On 5/28/22, Gene<gsasner@...><mailto:gsasner@...> wrote:

When you are on the line that says enter the name of the school, press

enter. That makes the field editable and you can then press enter
again

to go into focus mode if you aren't automatically placed in it.



Gene



On 5/28/2022 10:07 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Hi all,

Is the edit field on this page not a conventional one? I play Heardle

every day, and it looks like the edit box on this page should work

similar to that one, but I can't seem to get the one here to work. All

I hear is NVDA telling me that this is an edit box that contains

multiple selections, and how many results are available, but I can't

seem to choose any results. The same happens when you're trying to

select a school to send to, and I suspect I won't have to enter as

much information as it's asking for if I could choose a result. Any

help on this would be appreciated, as I've put this off for two weeks

already. The link is

https://tsorder.studentclearinghouse.org/school/select<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftsorder.studentclearinghouse.org%2Fschool%2Fselect&data=05%7C01%7C%7C1baaf78b57114cc6394608da418ef031%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637894379430394978%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ppsCr2d3mM8hzU%2BJodqelW%2FhHgQl5exhAolXaB%2FYiSU%3D&reserved=0>

Thanks,

Bob



























.

















Re: help with an edit field

Gene
 

In that context, I don't quarrel with the term.  I know that at least some accessibility workers and advocates refer to accessibility bugs and I strongly disagree with that. 

Gene

On 5/29/2022 1:25 PM, Carlos Medrano wrote:

Nice idea to try object navigation. I tried document review mode, but that really didn't help me; it's something worth trying.


Regarding bug versus flaw: The reason why I stated it as a bug was because an attempt was done to try and make the field accessible as shown by the ARIA help messages. Maybe the field was accessible once upon a time, but an update to part of the stack they're using broke the field's accessibility. This is pure speculation on my part, but I'm speaking from personal experience that updates to code libraries can cause things to break in strange and unusual ways sometimes. Moreover, when hitting the arrows to go up and down the list would just say undefined for me. In JavaScript, `undefined` is a data type that uninitialized variables have by default.


On 5/29/2022 1:06 PM, Gene wrote:
You can use the method David described in both edit fields but you may get more results in the key word field.  I typed Chicago in the other edit field and only got one.  I typed Chicago in the key word field and got four.

Gene

On 5/29/2022 12:52 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Thanks David, I'll try that. Btw, as someone trying to get into the
accessibility testing field, I completely agree with you.

On 5/29/22, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:
This is a terribly designed autocomplete. However, there is a workaround but
it involves using object navigation.
Start typing in the first few letters of the desired school. Once you do
this use your numeric keypad, assuming that you have a full-size keyboard,
and press insert numpad-4 to move across the objects until you hear NVDA
announce the word "list."
Once you hear this press insert numpad-2 to drill down into that list.
Insert numpad-6 should move from one item to the next in the list of
schools.
When you hear the school that you want press insert numpad-enter to select
it.
Next, navigate with the tab key to the Continue button and select it.
If you don't have a full-size keyboard I'm afraid you'll either need to look
up the laptop equivalents for these hotkeys or use a full-size keyboard as I
will admit that I never learned the laptop layout.



David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
[JAWS Certified,
2022]<https://www.freedomscientific.com/Training/Certification>
NVDA Certified Expert<https://certification.nvaccess.org/>

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and
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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 12:19 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

You didn't cause one.  it isn't your responsibility if people disagree about
something you said if you aren't expressing something you think is
controversial.  In addition, a little controversy even if you say something
people may disagree with, is alright as long as you are staying within the
list rules.  I may express an opinion about a program, for example, that is
controversial.  There are going to be disagreements.

Gene
On 5/29/2022 11:13 AM, mike mcglashon wrote:
I apologize;
I did not mean to cause a rift.

Please advise as you like.

Mike M.

Mike mcglashon
Email: Michael.mcglashon@...<mailto:Michael.mcglashon@...>
Ph: 618 783 9331

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 12:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

That's a real example of both civility and intellectual open mindedness.  I
didn't know you harbor such hostility toward me.

If you can't be civil and you refuse to discuss what I say without attacking
me, don't bother.

Your last message displays a logical fallacy.  You said that you are
confident no one in the accessibility field will agree with me.  So what?
That is arguing from authority and doesn't prove anything.  How many people
believed the world was flat before Columbuss?

You have not, in either answer, presented any reasons for believing what you
believe.  You just say what you believe.

Gene
On 5/29/2022 10:51 AM, David Goldfield wrote:
Lack of accessibility isn't an error? I am quite certain that nobody in the
accessibility field will agree with you but I am done with this
conversation. You are free to respond to this if you like but I will,
unfortunately, resume my habit of skipping your messages so your response
will not be read by me.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
[JAWS Certified,
2022]<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.freedomscientific.com%2FTraining%2FCertification&data=05%7C01%7C%7C1baaf78b57114cc6394608da418ef031%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637894379430394978%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=SHZjCk2t46f9R5TLLSOWj7G8zlHe9Kw%2FMKan51aQDCg%3D&reserved=0>
NVDA Certified
Expert<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcertification.nvaccess.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7C1baaf78b57114cc6394608da418ef031%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637894379430394978%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=%2BNmyxupOiXNI0qDvNpKXcHM59JaxOnCwDiJbajrp%2BOA%3D&reserved=0>

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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 11:46 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

I didn't say anything about what other words someone might want to use, but
bug is not correct.  You might want to call it a flaw or an omission, or use
some sort of word or phrase that indicates that it is no longer acceptable
not to include accessibility, but it isn't a bug.

One definition from Google I just looked up is:
"an error in a computer program or system."

Lack of accessibility isn't an error.  It may be unconscionable,
unacceptable or you may wish to use other wording, but it is not an error.

Gene
On 5/29/2022 10:27 AM, David Goldfield wrote:
Gene wrote:
I don't consider lack of accessibility to be a bug.
As an accessibility tester I disagree. I understand what you are saying in
your example of a stove which doesn't take inclusive design into account.
However, if you have a Web site which has no labels on form fields or which
doesn't expose an edit field to a screen reader this is definitely
considered a bug or defect and needs to be treated as such.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
[JAWS Certified,
2022]<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.freedomscientific.com%2FTraining%2FCertification&data=05%7C01%7C%7C1baaf78b57114cc6394608da418ef031%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637894379430394978%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=SHZjCk2t46f9R5TLLSOWj7G8zlHe9Kw%2FMKan51aQDCg%3D&reserved=0>
NVDA Certified
Expert<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcertification.nvaccess.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7C1baaf78b57114cc6394608da418ef031%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637894379430394978%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=%2BNmyxupOiXNI0qDvNpKXcHM59JaxOnCwDiJbajrp%2BOA%3D&reserved=0>

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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 9:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

I don't consider lack of accessibility to be a bug.  A bug is an unintended
behavior.  Saying a lack of accessibility is a bug implies that the item was
intended to be accessible but isn't because of unanticipated problem or
problems.

If a stove isn't accessible and isn't designed to be, that isn't a bug.  You
may call it a flaw, a serious flaw, you may describe it as you wish in terms
of advocating for more accessibility, but it isn't a bug.  It is operating
as designed.

If my stove is designed to be accessible and the speech is giving inaccurate
numbers as I move through settings, that is a bug.

Gene
On 5/29/2022 7:49 AM, mike mcglashon wrote:
Quoting:
On considering this further, I don't know if this is a bug in anything.
It may be that the results shown as you move aren't announced because the
function isn't designed to be accessible.
end quote:

Wow, wouldn't that be considered a "major" bug then? Or,
At least a "big flaw"?
Isn't that bad if someone designs a control on a page to be purposefully
inaccessible?
(especially a school clearing house)?

Just curious?

Please advise as you like.

Mike M.

Mike mcglashon
Email: Michael.mcglashon@...<mailto:Michael.mcglashon@...>
Ph: 618 783 9331

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 8:41 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

It appears i was wrong about the edit field.  It appears to be a standard
edit field.  I didn't hear anything about number of results and moving up
and down, as I recall.  I did try using the search field where you enter a
key word to find your school and I then got results like yours.

I figured out how to find a school name.  Its a little work but you can
accomplish this in the following way:
Follow the key word search link.
An edit field will become available.  If you are not in forms mode go into
forms mode.  Just pressing enter where you are after following the link
should do it.
Be in forms mode in the key word search edit field.
Type a word such as Chicago.
You will hear how many results there are.
Down arrow to the first one.  You won't hear the school read but you will
hear that you are on the first result.
Press enter.  You have now placed the name in the field you are in and it
can be read while in forms mode.  I don't recall if you automatically hear
it but you can use read current line or maybe just pressing the down or up
arrow will read it.
If that is not the result you want, select all, control a, and press
delete.
Write Chicago again.
Down arrow to the second result and press enter.
Again, you will be able to hear the word.
Follow this procedure until you hear the name you want.
Once you do, it is in the field it should be in and you can then activate
the continue button, which will now be available.

On considering this further, I don't know if this is a bug in anything.  It
may be that the results shown as you move aren't announced because the
function isn't designed to be accessible.

Gene
On 5/29/2022 7:07 AM, Gene via groups.io wrote:
No, it isn't standard.  I had to press enter on select a school to make the
field editable in the first place.  Then I had to press enter again, since
I am using manual switching in NVDA, to go into forms mode.  You may have to
as well, since you are in a field that is not initially editable.

As far as the select a school edit field is concerned, is that the field you
are discussing?  I'll look at the field again but I thought I heard select
a number when I was

Gene
On 5/28/2022 11:36 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Yes, that's standard edit commands. However, when I start typing the

name of a school, NVDA says "this is an auto complete element and

there are # results available. Keyboard users, use up and down arrows

to select an option." The # in the example is, as one might guess, an

actual number. However, when using up and down arrow with NVDA in

focus mode, I just get the same auto complete message and NVDA reads

what I've already typed in, it won't let me actually choose a result.

The question is how do I actually choose a result as intended?



On 5/28/22, Gene <gsasner@...><mailto:gsasner@...> wrote:

When you are on the line that says enter the name of the school, press

enter.  That makes the field editable and you can then press enter again

to go into focus mode if you aren't automatically placed in it.



Gene



On 5/28/2022 10:07 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Hi all,

Is the edit field on this page not a conventional one? I play Heardle

every day, and it looks like the edit box on this page should work

similar to that one, but I can't seem to get the one here to work. All

I hear is NVDA telling me that this is an edit box that contains

multiple selections, and how many results are available, but I can't

seem to choose any results. The same happens when you're trying to

select a school to send to, and I suspect I won't have to enter as

much information as it's asking for if I could choose a result. Any

help on this would be appreciated, as I've put this off for two weeks

already. The link is

https://tsorder.studentclearinghouse.org/school/select<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftsorder.studentclearinghouse.org%2Fschool%2Fselect&data=05%7C01%7C%7C1baaf78b57114cc6394608da418ef031%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637894379430394978%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ppsCr2d3mM8hzU%2BJodqelW%2FhHgQl5exhAolXaB%2FYiSU%3D&reserved=0>

Thanks,

Bob



























.
















Re: help with an edit field

Bob Cavanaugh
 

Using David's method, I managed to get it to work, but what I was
hoping to have happen, which was the address fields already being
populated, did not happen even with the fields chosen as hoped. Quick
question, the site requires a signature, either printed and sent back
to them, or electronically. The problem is the signature has to be
drawn with the mouse. Is there a way to sign such documents with NVDA,
or do I need to use the print copy?

On 5/29/22, Carlos Medrano <crlsmdrn@...> wrote:
Nice idea to try object navigation. I tried document review mode, but
that really didn't help me; it's something worth trying.


Regarding bug versus flaw: The reason why I stated it as a bug was
because an attempt was done to try and make the field accessible as
shown by the ARIA help messages. Maybe the field was accessible once
upon a time, but an update to part of the stack they're using broke the
field's accessibility. This is pure speculation on my part, but I'm
speaking from personal experience that updates to code libraries can
cause things to break in strange and unusual ways sometimes. Moreover,
when hitting the arrows to go up and down the list would just say
undefined for me. In JavaScript, `undefined` is a data type that
uninitialized variables have by default.


On 5/29/2022 1:06 PM, Gene wrote:
You can use the method David described in both edit fields but you may
get more results in the key word field.  I typed Chicago in the other
edit field and only got one.  I typed Chicago in the key word field
and got four.

Gene

On 5/29/2022 12:52 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Thanks David, I'll try that. Btw, as someone trying to get into the
accessibility testing field, I completely agree with you.

On 5/29/22, David Goldfield<david.goldfield@...> wrote:
This is a terribly designed autocomplete. However, there is a workaround
but
it involves using object navigation.
Start typing in the first few letters of the desired school. Once you
do
this use your numeric keypad, assuming that you have a full-size
keyboard,
and press insert numpad-4 to move across the objects until you hear
NVDA
announce the word "list."
Once you hear this press insert numpad-2 to drill down into that list.
Insert numpad-6 should move from one item to the next in the list of
schools.
When you hear the school that you want press insert numpad-enter to
select
it.
Next, navigate with the tab key to the Continue button and select it.
If you don't have a full-size keyboard I'm afraid you'll either need to
look
up the laptop equivalents for these hotkeys or use a full-size keyboard
as I
will admit that I never learned the laptop layout.



David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
[JAWS Certified,
2022]<https://www.freedomscientific.com/Training/Certification>
NVDA Certified Expert<https://certification.nvaccess.org/>

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and
information regarding the blindness assistive technology field.
Email:tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io<mailto:tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io>
www.DavidGoldfield.org<http://www.DavidGoldfield.org>

From:nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 12:19 PM
To:nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

You didn't cause one. it isn't your responsibility if people disagree
about
something you said if you aren't expressing something you think is
controversial. In addition, a little controversy even if you say
something
people may disagree with, is alright as long as you are staying within
the
list rules. I may express an opinion about a program, for example, that
is
controversial. There are going to be disagreements.

Gene
On 5/29/2022 11:13 AM, mike mcglashon wrote:
I apologize;
I did not mean to cause a rift.

Please advise as you like.

Mike M.

Mike mcglashon
Email:Michael.mcglashon@...<mailto:Michael.mcglashon@...>
Ph: 618 783 9331

From:nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 12:04 PM
To:nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

That's a real example of both civility and intellectual open mindedness.
I
didn't know you harbor such hostility toward me.

If you can't be civil and you refuse to discuss what I say without
attacking
me, don't bother.

Your last message displays a logical fallacy. You said that you are
confident no one in the accessibility field will agree with me. So
what?
That is arguing from authority and doesn't prove anything. How many
people
believed the world was flat before Columbuss?

You have not, in either answer, presented any reasons for believing what
you
believe. You just say what you believe.

Gene
On 5/29/2022 10:51 AM, David Goldfield wrote:
Lack of accessibility isn't an error? I am quite certain that nobody in
the
accessibility field will agree with you but I am done with this
conversation. You are free to respond to this if you like but I will,
unfortunately, resume my habit of skipping your messages so your
response
will not be read by me.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
[JAWS Certified,
2022]<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.freedomscientific.com%2FTraining%2FCertification&data=05%7C01%7C%7C1baaf78b57114cc6394608da418ef031%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637894379430394978%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=SHZjCk2t46f9R5TLLSOWj7G8zlHe9Kw%2FMKan51aQDCg%3D&reserved=0>
NVDA Certified
Expert<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcertification.nvaccess.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7C1baaf78b57114cc6394608da418ef031%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637894379430394978%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=%2BNmyxupOiXNI0qDvNpKXcHM59JaxOnCwDiJbajrp%2BOA%3D&reserved=0>

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and
information regarding the blindness assistive technology field.
Email:tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io<mailto:tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io>
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From:nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 11:46 AM
To:nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

I didn't say anything about what other words someone might want to use,
but
bug is not correct. You might want to call it a flaw or an omission, or
use
some sort of word or phrase that indicates that it is no longer
acceptable
not to include accessibility, but it isn't a bug.

One definition from Google I just looked up is:
"an error in a computer program or system."

Lack of accessibility isn't an error. It may be unconscionable,
unacceptable or you may wish to use other wording, but it is not an
error.

Gene
On 5/29/2022 10:27 AM, David Goldfield wrote:
Gene wrote:
I don't consider lack of accessibility to be a bug.
As an accessibility tester I disagree. I understand what you are saying
in
your example of a stove which doesn't take inclusive design into
account.
However, if you have a Web site which has no labels on form fields or
which
doesn't expose an edit field to a screen reader this is definitely
considered a bug or defect and needs to be treated as such.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
[JAWS Certified,
2022]<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.freedomscientific.com%2FTraining%2FCertification&data=05%7C01%7C%7C1baaf78b57114cc6394608da418ef031%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637894379430394978%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=SHZjCk2t46f9R5TLLSOWj7G8zlHe9Kw%2FMKan51aQDCg%3D&reserved=0>
NVDA Certified
Expert<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcertification.nvaccess.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7C1baaf78b57114cc6394608da418ef031%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637894379430394978%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=%2BNmyxupOiXNI0qDvNpKXcHM59JaxOnCwDiJbajrp%2BOA%3D&reserved=0>

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and
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From:nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 9:03 AM
To:nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

I don't consider lack of accessibility to be a bug. A bug is an
unintended
behavior. Saying a lack of accessibility is a bug implies that the item
was
intended to be accessible but isn't because of unanticipated problem or
problems.

If a stove isn't accessible and isn't designed to be, that isn't a bug.
You
may call it a flaw, a serious flaw, you may describe it as you wish in
terms
of advocating for more accessibility, but it isn't a bug. It is
operating
as designed.

If my stove is designed to be accessible and the speech is giving
inaccurate
numbers as I move through settings, that is a bug.

Gene
On 5/29/2022 7:49 AM, mike mcglashon wrote:
Quoting:
On considering this further, I don't know if this is a bug in anything.
It may be that the results shown as you move aren't announced because
the
function isn't designed to be accessible.
end quote:

Wow, wouldn't that be considered a "major" bug then? Or,
At least a "big flaw"?
Isn't that bad if someone designs a control on a page to be
purposefully
inaccessible?
(especially a school clearing house)?

Just curious?

Please advise as you like.

Mike M.

Mike mcglashon
Email:Michael.mcglashon@...<mailto:Michael.mcglashon@...>
Ph: 618 783 9331

From:nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 8:41 AM
To:nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

It appears i was wrong about the edit field. It appears to be a
standard
edit field. I didn't hear anything about number of results and moving
up
and down, as I recall. I did try using the search field where you enter
a
key word to find your school and I then got results like yours.

I figured out how to find a school name. Its a little work but you can
accomplish this in the following way:
Follow the key word search link.
An edit field will become available. If you are not in forms mode go
into
forms mode. Just pressing enter where you are after following the link
should do it.
Be in forms mode in the key word search edit field.
Type a word such as Chicago.
You will hear how many results there are.
Down arrow to the first one. You won't hear the school read but you
will
hear that you are on the first result.
Press enter. You have now placed the name in the field you are in and
it
can be read while in forms mode. I don't recall if you automatically
hear
it but you can use read current line or maybe just pressing the down or
up
arrow will read it.
If that is not the result you want, select all, control a, and press
delete.
Write Chicago again.
Down arrow to the second result and press enter.
Again, you will be able to hear the word.
Follow this procedure until you hear the name you want.
Once you do, it is in the field it should be in and you can then
activate
the continue button, which will now be available.

On considering this further, I don't know if this is a bug in anything.
It
may be that the results shown as you move aren't announced because the
function isn't designed to be accessible.

Gene
On 5/29/2022 7:07 AM, Gene via groups.io wrote:
No, it isn't standard. I had to press enter on select a school to make
the
field editable in the first place. Then I had to press enter again,
since
I am using manual switching in NVDA, to go into forms mode. You may
have to
as well, since you are in a field that is not initially editable.

As far as the select a school edit field is concerned, is that the field
you
are discussing? I'll look at the field again but I thought I heard
select
a number when I was

Gene
On 5/28/2022 11:36 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Yes, that's standard edit commands. However, when I start typing the

name of a school, NVDA says "this is an auto complete element and

there are # results available. Keyboard users, use up and down arrows

to select an option." The # in the example is, as one might guess, an

actual number. However, when using up and down arrow with NVDA in

focus mode, I just get the same auto complete message and NVDA reads

what I've already typed in, it won't let me actually choose a result.

The question is how do I actually choose a result as intended?



On 5/28/22, Gene<gsasner@...><mailto:gsasner@...> wrote:

When you are on the line that says enter the name of the school, press

enter. That makes the field editable and you can then press enter
again

to go into focus mode if you aren't automatically placed in it.



Gene



On 5/28/2022 10:07 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Hi all,

Is the edit field on this page not a conventional one? I play Heardle

every day, and it looks like the edit box on this page should work

similar to that one, but I can't seem to get the one here to work. All

I hear is NVDA telling me that this is an edit box that contains

multiple selections, and how many results are available, but I can't

seem to choose any results. The same happens when you're trying to

select a school to send to, and I suspect I won't have to enter as

much information as it's asking for if I could choose a result. Any

help on this would be appreciated, as I've put this off for two weeks

already. The link is

https://tsorder.studentclearinghouse.org/school/select<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftsorder.studentclearinghouse.org%2Fschool%2Fselect&data=05%7C01%7C%7C1baaf78b57114cc6394608da418ef031%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637894379430394978%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ppsCr2d3mM8hzU%2BJodqelW%2FhHgQl5exhAolXaB%2FYiSU%3D&reserved=0>

Thanks,

Bob



























.

















Re: help with an edit field

Carlos Medrano
 

Nice idea to try object navigation. I tried document review mode, but that really didn't help me; it's something worth trying.


Regarding bug versus flaw: The reason why I stated it as a bug was because an attempt was done to try and make the field accessible as shown by the ARIA help messages. Maybe the field was accessible once upon a time, but an update to part of the stack they're using broke the field's accessibility. This is pure speculation on my part, but I'm speaking from personal experience that updates to code libraries can cause things to break in strange and unusual ways sometimes. Moreover, when hitting the arrows to go up and down the list would just say undefined for me. In JavaScript, `undefined` is a data type that uninitialized variables have by default.


On 5/29/2022 1:06 PM, Gene wrote:
You can use the method David described in both edit fields but you may get more results in the key word field.  I typed Chicago in the other edit field and only got one.  I typed Chicago in the key word field and got four.

Gene

On 5/29/2022 12:52 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Thanks David, I'll try that. Btw, as someone trying to get into the
accessibility testing field, I completely agree with you.

On 5/29/22, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:
This is a terribly designed autocomplete. However, there is a workaround but
it involves using object navigation.
Start typing in the first few letters of the desired school. Once you do
this use your numeric keypad, assuming that you have a full-size keyboard,
and press insert numpad-4 to move across the objects until you hear NVDA
announce the word "list."
Once you hear this press insert numpad-2 to drill down into that list.
Insert numpad-6 should move from one item to the next in the list of
schools.
When you hear the school that you want press insert numpad-enter to select
it.
Next, navigate with the tab key to the Continue button and select it.
If you don't have a full-size keyboard I'm afraid you'll either need to look
up the laptop equivalents for these hotkeys or use a full-size keyboard as I
will admit that I never learned the laptop layout.



David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
[JAWS Certified,
2022]<https://www.freedomscientific.com/Training/Certification>
NVDA Certified Expert<https://certification.nvaccess.org/>

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and
information regarding the blindness assistive technology field.
Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io<mailto:tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io>
www.DavidGoldfield.org<http://www.DavidGoldfield.org>

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 12:19 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

You didn't cause one.  it isn't your responsibility if people disagree about
something you said if you aren't expressing something you think is
controversial.  In addition, a little controversy even if you say something
people may disagree with, is alright as long as you are staying within the
list rules.  I may express an opinion about a program, for example, that is
controversial.  There are going to be disagreements.

Gene
On 5/29/2022 11:13 AM, mike mcglashon wrote:
I apologize;
I did not mean to cause a rift.

Please advise as you like.

Mike M.

Mike mcglashon
Email: Michael.mcglashon@...<mailto:Michael.mcglashon@...>
Ph: 618 783 9331

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 12:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

That's a real example of both civility and intellectual open mindedness.  I
didn't know you harbor such hostility toward me.

If you can't be civil and you refuse to discuss what I say without attacking
me, don't bother.

Your last message displays a logical fallacy.  You said that you are
confident no one in the accessibility field will agree with me.  So what?
That is arguing from authority and doesn't prove anything.  How many people
believed the world was flat before Columbuss?

You have not, in either answer, presented any reasons for believing what you
believe.  You just say what you believe.

Gene
On 5/29/2022 10:51 AM, David Goldfield wrote:
Lack of accessibility isn't an error? I am quite certain that nobody in the
accessibility field will agree with you but I am done with this
conversation. You are free to respond to this if you like but I will,
unfortunately, resume my habit of skipping your messages so your response
will not be read by me.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
[JAWS Certified,
2022]<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.freedomscientific.com%2FTraining%2FCertification&data=05%7C01%7C%7C1baaf78b57114cc6394608da418ef031%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637894379430394978%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=SHZjCk2t46f9R5TLLSOWj7G8zlHe9Kw%2FMKan51aQDCg%3D&reserved=0>
NVDA Certified
Expert<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcertification.nvaccess.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7C1baaf78b57114cc6394608da418ef031%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637894379430394978%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=%2BNmyxupOiXNI0qDvNpKXcHM59JaxOnCwDiJbajrp%2BOA%3D&reserved=0>

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and
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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 11:46 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

I didn't say anything about what other words someone might want to use, but
bug is not correct.  You might want to call it a flaw or an omission, or use
some sort of word or phrase that indicates that it is no longer acceptable
not to include accessibility, but it isn't a bug.

One definition from Google I just looked up is:
"an error in a computer program or system."

Lack of accessibility isn't an error.  It may be unconscionable,
unacceptable or you may wish to use other wording, but it is not an error.

Gene
On 5/29/2022 10:27 AM, David Goldfield wrote:
Gene wrote:
I don't consider lack of accessibility to be a bug.
As an accessibility tester I disagree. I understand what you are saying in
your example of a stove which doesn't take inclusive design into account.
However, if you have a Web site which has no labels on form fields or which
doesn't expose an edit field to a screen reader this is definitely
considered a bug or defect and needs to be treated as such.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
[JAWS Certified,
2022]<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.freedomscientific.com%2FTraining%2FCertification&data=05%7C01%7C%7C1baaf78b57114cc6394608da418ef031%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637894379430394978%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=SHZjCk2t46f9R5TLLSOWj7G8zlHe9Kw%2FMKan51aQDCg%3D&reserved=0>
NVDA Certified
Expert<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcertification.nvaccess.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7C1baaf78b57114cc6394608da418ef031%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637894379430394978%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=%2BNmyxupOiXNI0qDvNpKXcHM59JaxOnCwDiJbajrp%2BOA%3D&reserved=0>

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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 9:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

I don't consider lack of accessibility to be a bug.  A bug is an unintended
behavior.  Saying a lack of accessibility is a bug implies that the item was
intended to be accessible but isn't because of unanticipated problem or
problems.

If a stove isn't accessible and isn't designed to be, that isn't a bug.  You
may call it a flaw, a serious flaw, you may describe it as you wish in terms
of advocating for more accessibility, but it isn't a bug.  It is operating
as designed.

If my stove is designed to be accessible and the speech is giving inaccurate
numbers as I move through settings, that is a bug.

Gene
On 5/29/2022 7:49 AM, mike mcglashon wrote:
Quoting:
On considering this further, I don't know if this is a bug in anything.
It may be that the results shown as you move aren't announced because the
function isn't designed to be accessible.
end quote:

Wow, wouldn't that be considered a "major" bug then? Or,
At least a "big flaw"?
Isn't that bad if someone designs a control on a page to be purposefully
inaccessible?
(especially a school clearing house)?

Just curious?

Please advise as you like.

Mike M.

Mike mcglashon
Email: Michael.mcglashon@...<mailto:Michael.mcglashon@...>
Ph: 618 783 9331

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 8:41 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

It appears i was wrong about the edit field.  It appears to be a standard
edit field.  I didn't hear anything about number of results and moving up
and down, as I recall.  I did try using the search field where you enter a
key word to find your school and I then got results like yours.

I figured out how to find a school name.  Its a little work but you can
accomplish this in the following way:
Follow the key word search link.
An edit field will become available.  If you are not in forms mode go into
forms mode.  Just pressing enter where you are after following the link
should do it.
Be in forms mode in the key word search edit field.
Type a word such as Chicago.
You will hear how many results there are.
Down arrow to the first one.  You won't hear the school read but you will
hear that you are on the first result.
Press enter.  You have now placed the name in the field you are in and it
can be read while in forms mode.  I don't recall if you automatically hear
it but you can use read current line or maybe just pressing the down or up
arrow will read it.
If that is not the result you want, select all, control a, and press
delete.
Write Chicago again.
Down arrow to the second result and press enter.
Again, you will be able to hear the word.
Follow this procedure until you hear the name you want.
Once you do, it is in the field it should be in and you can then activate
the continue button, which will now be available.

On considering this further, I don't know if this is a bug in anything.  It
may be that the results shown as you move aren't announced because the
function isn't designed to be accessible.

Gene
On 5/29/2022 7:07 AM, Gene via groups.io wrote:
No, it isn't standard.  I had to press enter on select a school to make the
field editable in the first place.  Then I had to press enter again, since
I am using manual switching in NVDA, to go into forms mode.  You may have to
as well, since you are in a field that is not initially editable.

As far as the select a school edit field is concerned, is that the field you
are discussing?  I'll look at the field again but I thought I heard select
a number when I was

Gene
On 5/28/2022 11:36 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Yes, that's standard edit commands. However, when I start typing the

name of a school, NVDA says "this is an auto complete element and

there are # results available. Keyboard users, use up and down arrows

to select an option." The # in the example is, as one might guess, an

actual number. However, when using up and down arrow with NVDA in

focus mode, I just get the same auto complete message and NVDA reads

what I've already typed in, it won't let me actually choose a result.

The question is how do I actually choose a result as intended?



On 5/28/22, Gene <gsasner@...><mailto:gsasner@...> wrote:

When you are on the line that says enter the name of the school, press

enter.  That makes the field editable and you can then press enter again

to go into focus mode if you aren't automatically placed in it.



Gene



On 5/28/2022 10:07 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Hi all,

Is the edit field on this page not a conventional one? I play Heardle

every day, and it looks like the edit box on this page should work

similar to that one, but I can't seem to get the one here to work. All

I hear is NVDA telling me that this is an edit box that contains

multiple selections, and how many results are available, but I can't

seem to choose any results. The same happens when you're trying to

select a school to send to, and I suspect I won't have to enter as

much information as it's asking for if I could choose a result. Any

help on this would be appreciated, as I've put this off for two weeks

already. The link is

https://tsorder.studentclearinghouse.org/school/select<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftsorder.studentclearinghouse.org%2Fschool%2Fselect&data=05%7C01%7C%7C1baaf78b57114cc6394608da418ef031%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637894379430394978%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ppsCr2d3mM8hzU%2BJodqelW%2FhHgQl5exhAolXaB%2FYiSU%3D&reserved=0>

Thanks,

Bob



























.
















Re: help with an edit field

Gene
 

You can use the method David described in both edit fields but you may get more results in the key word field.  I typed Chicago in the other edit field and only got one.  I typed Chicago in the key word field and got four.

Gene

On 5/29/2022 12:52 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Thanks David, I'll try that. Btw, as someone trying to get into the
accessibility testing field, I completely agree with you.

On 5/29/22, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:
This is a terribly designed autocomplete. However, there is a workaround but
it involves using object navigation.
Start typing in the first few letters of the desired school. Once you do
this use your numeric keypad, assuming that you have a full-size keyboard,
and press insert numpad-4 to move across the objects until you hear NVDA
announce the word "list."
Once you hear this press insert numpad-2 to drill down into that list.
Insert numpad-6 should move from one item to the next in the list of
schools.
When you hear the school that you want press insert numpad-enter to select
it.
Next, navigate with the tab key to the Continue button and select it.
If you don't have a full-size keyboard I'm afraid you'll either need to look
up the laptop equivalents for these hotkeys or use a full-size keyboard as I
will admit that I never learned the laptop layout.



David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
[JAWS Certified,
2022]<https://www.freedomscientific.com/Training/Certification>
NVDA Certified Expert<https://certification.nvaccess.org/>

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and
information regarding the blindness assistive technology field.
Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io<mailto:tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io>
www.DavidGoldfield.org<http://www.DavidGoldfield.org>

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 12:19 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

You didn't cause one.  it isn't your responsibility if people disagree about
something you said if you aren't expressing something you think is
controversial.  In addition, a little controversy even if you say something
people may disagree with, is alright as long as you are staying within the
list rules.  I may express an opinion about a program, for example, that is
controversial.  There are going to be disagreements.

Gene
On 5/29/2022 11:13 AM, mike mcglashon wrote:
I apologize;
I did not mean to cause a rift.

Please advise as you like.

Mike M.

Mike mcglashon
Email: Michael.mcglashon@...<mailto:Michael.mcglashon@...>
Ph: 618 783 9331

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 12:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

That's a real example of both civility and intellectual open mindedness.  I
didn't know you harbor such hostility toward me.

If you can't be civil and you refuse to discuss what I say without attacking
me, don't bother.

Your last message displays a logical fallacy.  You said that you are
confident no one in the accessibility field will agree with me.  So what?
That is arguing from authority and doesn't prove anything.  How many people
believed the world was flat before Columbuss?

You have not, in either answer, presented any reasons for believing what you
believe.  You just say what you believe.

Gene
On 5/29/2022 10:51 AM, David Goldfield wrote:
Lack of accessibility isn't an error? I am quite certain that nobody in the
accessibility field will agree with you but I am done with this
conversation. You are free to respond to this if you like but I will,
unfortunately, resume my habit of skipping your messages so your response
will not be read by me.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
[JAWS Certified,
2022]<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.freedomscientific.com%2FTraining%2FCertification&data=05%7C01%7C%7C1baaf78b57114cc6394608da418ef031%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637894379430394978%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=SHZjCk2t46f9R5TLLSOWj7G8zlHe9Kw%2FMKan51aQDCg%3D&reserved=0>
NVDA Certified
Expert<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcertification.nvaccess.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7C1baaf78b57114cc6394608da418ef031%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637894379430394978%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=%2BNmyxupOiXNI0qDvNpKXcHM59JaxOnCwDiJbajrp%2BOA%3D&reserved=0>

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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 11:46 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

I didn't say anything about what other words someone might want to use, but
bug is not correct.  You might want to call it a flaw or an omission, or use
some sort of word or phrase that indicates that it is no longer acceptable
not to include accessibility, but it isn't a bug.

One definition from Google I just looked up is:
"an error in a computer program or system."

Lack of accessibility isn't an error.  It may be unconscionable,
unacceptable or you may wish to use other wording, but it is not an error.

Gene
On 5/29/2022 10:27 AM, David Goldfield wrote:
Gene wrote:
I don't consider lack of accessibility to be a bug.
As an accessibility tester I disagree. I understand what you are saying in
your example of a stove which doesn't take inclusive design into account.
However, if you have a Web site which has no labels on form fields or which
doesn't expose an edit field to a screen reader this is definitely
considered a bug or defect and needs to be treated as such.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
[JAWS Certified,
2022]<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.freedomscientific.com%2FTraining%2FCertification&data=05%7C01%7C%7C1baaf78b57114cc6394608da418ef031%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637894379430394978%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=SHZjCk2t46f9R5TLLSOWj7G8zlHe9Kw%2FMKan51aQDCg%3D&reserved=0>
NVDA Certified
Expert<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcertification.nvaccess.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7C1baaf78b57114cc6394608da418ef031%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637894379430394978%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=%2BNmyxupOiXNI0qDvNpKXcHM59JaxOnCwDiJbajrp%2BOA%3D&reserved=0>

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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 9:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

I don't consider lack of accessibility to be a bug.  A bug is an unintended
behavior.  Saying a lack of accessibility is a bug implies that the item was
intended to be accessible but isn't because of unanticipated problem or
problems.

If a stove isn't accessible and isn't designed to be, that isn't a bug.  You
may call it a flaw, a serious flaw, you may describe it as you wish in terms
of advocating for more accessibility, but it isn't a bug.  It is operating
as designed.

If my stove is designed to be accessible and the speech is giving inaccurate
numbers as I move through settings, that is a bug.

Gene
On 5/29/2022 7:49 AM, mike mcglashon wrote:
Quoting:
On considering this further, I don't know if this is a bug in anything.
It may be that the results shown as you move aren't announced because the
function isn't designed to be accessible.
end quote:

Wow, wouldn't that be considered a "major" bug then? Or,
At least a "big flaw"?
Isn't that bad if someone designs a control on a page to be purposefully
inaccessible?
(especially a school clearing house)?

Just curious?

Please advise as you like.

Mike M.

Mike mcglashon
Email: Michael.mcglashon@...<mailto:Michael.mcglashon@...>
Ph: 618 783 9331

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 8:41 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

It appears i was wrong about the edit field.  It appears to be a standard
edit field.  I didn't hear anything about number of results and moving up
and down, as I recall.  I did try using the search field where you enter a
key word to find your school and I then got results like yours.

I figured out how to find a school name.  Its a little work but you can
accomplish this in the following way:
Follow the key word search link.
An edit field will become available.  If you are not in forms mode go into
forms mode.  Just pressing enter where you are after following the link
should do it.
Be in forms mode in the key word search edit field.
Type a word such as Chicago.
You will hear how many results there are.
Down arrow to the first one.  You won't hear the school read but you will
hear that you are on the first result.
Press enter.  You have now placed the name in the field you are in and it
can be read while in forms mode.  I don't recall if you automatically hear
it but you can use read current line or maybe just pressing the down or up
arrow will read it.
If that is not the result you want, select all, control a, and press
delete.
Write Chicago again.
Down arrow to the second result and press enter.
Again, you will be able to hear the word.
Follow this procedure until you hear the name you want.
Once you do, it is in the field it should be in and you can then activate
the continue button, which will now be available.

On considering this further, I don't know if this is a bug in anything.  It
may be that the results shown as you move aren't announced because the
function isn't designed to be accessible.

Gene
On 5/29/2022 7:07 AM, Gene via groups.io wrote:
No, it isn't standard.  I had to press enter on select a school to make the
field editable in the first place.  Then I had to press enter again, since
I am using manual switching in NVDA, to go into forms mode.  You may have to
as well, since you are in a field that is not initially editable.

As far as the select a school edit field is concerned, is that the field you
are discussing?  I'll look at the field again but I thought I heard select
a number when I was

Gene
On 5/28/2022 11:36 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Yes, that's standard edit commands. However, when I start typing the

name of a school, NVDA says "this is an auto complete element and

there are # results available. Keyboard users, use up and down arrows

to select an option." The # in the example is, as one might guess, an

actual number. However, when using up and down arrow with NVDA in

focus mode, I just get the same auto complete message and NVDA reads

what I've already typed in, it won't let me actually choose a result.

The question is how do I actually choose a result as intended?



On 5/28/22, Gene <gsasner@...><mailto:gsasner@...> wrote:

When you are on the line that says enter the name of the school, press

enter.  That makes the field editable and you can then press enter again

to go into focus mode if you aren't automatically placed in it.



Gene



On 5/28/2022 10:07 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Hi all,

Is the edit field on this page not a conventional one? I play Heardle

every day, and it looks like the edit box on this page should work

similar to that one, but I can't seem to get the one here to work. All

I hear is NVDA telling me that this is an edit box that contains

multiple selections, and how many results are available, but I can't

seem to choose any results. The same happens when you're trying to

select a school to send to, and I suspect I won't have to enter as

much information as it's asking for if I could choose a result. Any

help on this would be appreciated, as I've put this off for two weeks

already. The link is

https://tsorder.studentclearinghouse.org/school/select<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftsorder.studentclearinghouse.org%2Fschool%2Fselect&data=05%7C01%7C%7C1baaf78b57114cc6394608da418ef031%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637894379430394978%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ppsCr2d3mM8hzU%2BJodqelW%2FhHgQl5exhAolXaB%2FYiSU%3D&reserved=0>

Thanks,

Bob



























.



















Re: help with an edit field

Bob Cavanaugh
 

Thanks David, I'll try that. Btw, as someone trying to get into the
accessibility testing field, I completely agree with you.

On 5/29/22, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:
This is a terribly designed autocomplete. However, there is a workaround but
it involves using object navigation.
Start typing in the first few letters of the desired school. Once you do
this use your numeric keypad, assuming that you have a full-size keyboard,
and press insert numpad-4 to move across the objects until you hear NVDA
announce the word "list."
Once you hear this press insert numpad-2 to drill down into that list.
Insert numpad-6 should move from one item to the next in the list of
schools.
When you hear the school that you want press insert numpad-enter to select
it.
Next, navigate with the tab key to the Continue button and select it.
If you don't have a full-size keyboard I'm afraid you'll either need to look
up the laptop equivalents for these hotkeys or use a full-size keyboard as I
will admit that I never learned the laptop layout.



David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
[JAWS Certified,
2022]<https://www.freedomscientific.com/Training/Certification>
NVDA Certified Expert<https://certification.nvaccess.org/>

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and
information regarding the blindness assistive technology field.
Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io<mailto:tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io>
www.DavidGoldfield.org<http://www.DavidGoldfield.org>

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 12:19 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

You didn't cause one. it isn't your responsibility if people disagree about
something you said if you aren't expressing something you think is
controversial. In addition, a little controversy even if you say something
people may disagree with, is alright as long as you are staying within the
list rules. I may express an opinion about a program, for example, that is
controversial. There are going to be disagreements.

Gene
On 5/29/2022 11:13 AM, mike mcglashon wrote:
I apologize;
I did not mean to cause a rift.

Please advise as you like.

Mike M.

Mike mcglashon
Email: Michael.mcglashon@...<mailto:Michael.mcglashon@...>
Ph: 618 783 9331

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 12:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

That's a real example of both civility and intellectual open mindedness. I
didn't know you harbor such hostility toward me.

If you can't be civil and you refuse to discuss what I say without attacking
me, don't bother.

Your last message displays a logical fallacy. You said that you are
confident no one in the accessibility field will agree with me. So what?
That is arguing from authority and doesn't prove anything. How many people
believed the world was flat before Columbuss?

You have not, in either answer, presented any reasons for believing what you
believe. You just say what you believe.

Gene
On 5/29/2022 10:51 AM, David Goldfield wrote:
Lack of accessibility isn't an error? I am quite certain that nobody in the
accessibility field will agree with you but I am done with this
conversation. You are free to respond to this if you like but I will,
unfortunately, resume my habit of skipping your messages so your response
will not be read by me.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
[JAWS Certified,
2022]<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.freedomscientific.com%2FTraining%2FCertification&data=05%7C01%7C%7C1baaf78b57114cc6394608da418ef031%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637894379430394978%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=SHZjCk2t46f9R5TLLSOWj7G8zlHe9Kw%2FMKan51aQDCg%3D&reserved=0>
NVDA Certified
Expert<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcertification.nvaccess.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7C1baaf78b57114cc6394608da418ef031%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637894379430394978%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=%2BNmyxupOiXNI0qDvNpKXcHM59JaxOnCwDiJbajrp%2BOA%3D&reserved=0>

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and
information regarding the blindness assistive technology field.
Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io<mailto:tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io>
www.DavidGoldfield.org<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidgoldfield.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7C1baaf78b57114cc6394608da418ef031%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637894379430394978%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=wriqv0LU5qL5sQ3NXv6oJ%2BXIMYrzD2%2BwwXM6fIkUGqE%3D&reserved=0>

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 11:46 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

I didn't say anything about what other words someone might want to use, but
bug is not correct. You might want to call it a flaw or an omission, or use
some sort of word or phrase that indicates that it is no longer acceptable
not to include accessibility, but it isn't a bug.

One definition from Google I just looked up is:
"an error in a computer program or system."

Lack of accessibility isn't an error. It may be unconscionable,
unacceptable or you may wish to use other wording, but it is not an error.

Gene
On 5/29/2022 10:27 AM, David Goldfield wrote:
Gene wrote:
I don't consider lack of accessibility to be a bug.
As an accessibility tester I disagree. I understand what you are saying in
your example of a stove which doesn't take inclusive design into account.
However, if you have a Web site which has no labels on form fields or which
doesn't expose an edit field to a screen reader this is definitely
considered a bug or defect and needs to be treated as such.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
[JAWS Certified,
2022]<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.freedomscientific.com%2FTraining%2FCertification&data=05%7C01%7C%7C1baaf78b57114cc6394608da418ef031%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637894379430394978%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=SHZjCk2t46f9R5TLLSOWj7G8zlHe9Kw%2FMKan51aQDCg%3D&reserved=0>
NVDA Certified
Expert<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcertification.nvaccess.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7C1baaf78b57114cc6394608da418ef031%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637894379430394978%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=%2BNmyxupOiXNI0qDvNpKXcHM59JaxOnCwDiJbajrp%2BOA%3D&reserved=0>

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and
information regarding the blindness assistive technology field.
Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io<mailto:tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io>
www.DavidGoldfield.org<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidgoldfield.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7C1baaf78b57114cc6394608da418ef031%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637894379430394978%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=wriqv0LU5qL5sQ3NXv6oJ%2BXIMYrzD2%2BwwXM6fIkUGqE%3D&reserved=0>

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 9:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

I don't consider lack of accessibility to be a bug. A bug is an unintended
behavior. Saying a lack of accessibility is a bug implies that the item was
intended to be accessible but isn't because of unanticipated problem or
problems.

If a stove isn't accessible and isn't designed to be, that isn't a bug. You
may call it a flaw, a serious flaw, you may describe it as you wish in terms
of advocating for more accessibility, but it isn't a bug. It is operating
as designed.

If my stove is designed to be accessible and the speech is giving inaccurate
numbers as I move through settings, that is a bug.

Gene
On 5/29/2022 7:49 AM, mike mcglashon wrote:
Quoting:
On considering this further, I don't know if this is a bug in anything.
It may be that the results shown as you move aren't announced because the
function isn't designed to be accessible.
end quote:

Wow, wouldn't that be considered a "major" bug then? Or,
At least a "big flaw"?
Isn't that bad if someone designs a control on a page to be purposefully
inaccessible?
(especially a school clearing house)?

Just curious?

Please advise as you like.

Mike M.

Mike mcglashon
Email: Michael.mcglashon@...<mailto:Michael.mcglashon@...>
Ph: 618 783 9331

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 8:41 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

It appears i was wrong about the edit field. It appears to be a standard
edit field. I didn't hear anything about number of results and moving up
and down, as I recall. I did try using the search field where you enter a
key word to find your school and I then got results like yours.

I figured out how to find a school name. Its a little work but you can
accomplish this in the following way:
Follow the key word search link.
An edit field will become available. If you are not in forms mode go into
forms mode. Just pressing enter where you are after following the link
should do it.
Be in forms mode in the key word search edit field.
Type a word such as Chicago.
You will hear how many results there are.
Down arrow to the first one. You won't hear the school read but you will
hear that you are on the first result.
Press enter. You have now placed the name in the field you are in and it
can be read while in forms mode. I don't recall if you automatically hear
it but you can use read current line or maybe just pressing the down or up
arrow will read it.
If that is not the result you want, select all, control a, and press
delete.
Write Chicago again.
Down arrow to the second result and press enter.
Again, you will be able to hear the word.
Follow this procedure until you hear the name you want.
Once you do, it is in the field it should be in and you can then activate
the continue button, which will now be available.

On considering this further, I don't know if this is a bug in anything. It
may be that the results shown as you move aren't announced because the
function isn't designed to be accessible.

Gene
On 5/29/2022 7:07 AM, Gene via groups.io wrote:
No, it isn't standard. I had to press enter on select a school to make the
field editable in the first place. Then I had to press enter again, since
I am using manual switching in NVDA, to go into forms mode. You may have to
as well, since you are in a field that is not initially editable.

As far as the select a school edit field is concerned, is that the field you
are discussing? I'll look at the field again but I thought I heard select
a number when I was

Gene
On 5/28/2022 11:36 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Yes, that's standard edit commands. However, when I start typing the

name of a school, NVDA says "this is an auto complete element and

there are # results available. Keyboard users, use up and down arrows

to select an option." The # in the example is, as one might guess, an

actual number. However, when using up and down arrow with NVDA in

focus mode, I just get the same auto complete message and NVDA reads

what I've already typed in, it won't let me actually choose a result.

The question is how do I actually choose a result as intended?



On 5/28/22, Gene <gsasner@...><mailto:gsasner@...> wrote:

When you are on the line that says enter the name of the school, press

enter. That makes the field editable and you can then press enter again

to go into focus mode if you aren't automatically placed in it.



Gene



On 5/28/2022 10:07 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Hi all,

Is the edit field on this page not a conventional one? I play Heardle

every day, and it looks like the edit box on this page should work

similar to that one, but I can't seem to get the one here to work. All

I hear is NVDA telling me that this is an edit box that contains

multiple selections, and how many results are available, but I can't

seem to choose any results. The same happens when you're trying to

select a school to send to, and I suspect I won't have to enter as

much information as it's asking for if I could choose a result. Any

help on this would be appreciated, as I've put this off for two weeks

already. The link is

https://tsorder.studentclearinghouse.org/school/select<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftsorder.studentclearinghouse.org%2Fschool%2Fselect&data=05%7C01%7C%7C1baaf78b57114cc6394608da418ef031%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637894379430394978%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ppsCr2d3mM8hzU%2BJodqelW%2FhHgQl5exhAolXaB%2FYiSU%3D&reserved=0>

Thanks,

Bob



























.













clock V 21.06 #addonrelease

zvonimir stanečić, 9a5dsz <zvonimirek222@...>
 

Hi!

I am notifying you all, that I am releasing clock version 22.06, making it compatible with NVDA 2022.1

Please, who can, update the evidence in the NVDA addons repo and on the NVDA addon updater side.

The link to this release is as follows:

https://github.com/hkatic/clock/releases/download/21.06/clock-22.06.nvda-addon

Best,

Zvonimir

P.s, I did one mistake, but it’s ok. The tag for the stable is called 21.06 but the release is 22.06, respectively


Code Factory Add-on

E.T.
 

Hi all,
Just updated to 2022/1 and my Code Factory add-on is gone again. Couple questions. One, is Code Factory still available for this version? If so, can someone give me a link to download a compatible Code Factory version? Thought I had link but it points me to an old version of Code Factory. Thanks.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible
will make violent revolution inevitable."
--John F. Kennedy
My e-Mail:
Ancient.Aliens@...


Re: help with an edit field

David Goldfield
 

This is a terribly designed autocomplete. However, there is a workaround but it involves using object navigation.

Start typing in the first few letters of the desired school. Once you do this use your numeric keypad, assuming that you have a full-size keyboard, and press insert numpad-4 to move across the objects until you hear NVDA announce the word “list.”

Once you hear this press insert numpad-2 to drill down into that list. Insert numpad-6 should move from one item to the next in the list of schools.

When you hear the school that you want press insert numpad-enter to select it.

Next, navigate with the tab key to the Continue button and select it.

If you don’t have a full-size keyboard I’m afraid you’ll either need to look up the laptop equivalents for these hotkeys or use a full-size keyboard as I will admit that I never learned the laptop layout.

 

 

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

NVDA Certified Expert

 

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and information regarding the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 12:19 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

 

You didn't cause one.  it isn't your responsibility if people disagree about something you said if you aren't expressing something you think is controversial.  In addition, a little controversy even if you say something people may disagree with, is alright as long as you are staying within the list rules.  I may express an opinion about a program, for example, that is controversial.  There are going to be disagreements.

Gene

On 5/29/2022 11:13 AM, mike mcglashon wrote:

I apologize;

I did not mean to cause a rift.

 

Please advise as you like.

 

Mike M.

 

Mike mcglashon

Email: Michael.mcglashon@...

Ph: 618 783 9331

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 12:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

 

That's a real example of both civility and intellectual open mindedness.  I didn't know you harbor such hostility toward me. 

If you can't be civil and you refuse to discuss what I say without attacking me, don't bother.

Your last message displays a logical fallacy.  You said that you are confident no one in the accessibility field will agree with me.  So what?  That is arguing from authority and doesn't prove anything.  How many people believed the world was flat before Columbuss? 

You have not, in either answer, presented any reasons for believing what you believe.  You just say what you believe. 

Gene

On 5/29/2022 10:51 AM, David Goldfield wrote:

Lack of accessibility isn’t an error? I am quite certain that nobody in the accessibility field will agree with you but I am done with this conversation. You are free to respond to this if you like but I will, unfortunately, resume my habit of skipping your messages so your response will not be read by me.

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

NVDA Certified Expert

 

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and information regarding the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 11:46 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

 

I didn't say anything about what other words someone might want to use, but bug is not correct.  You might want to call it a flaw or an omission, or use some sort of word or phrase that indicates that it is no longer acceptable not to include accessibility, but it isn't a bug. 

One definition from Google I just looked up is:
"an error in a computer program or system."

Lack of accessibility isn't an error.  It may be unconscionable, unacceptable or you may wish to use other wording, but it is not an error.

Gene

On 5/29/2022 10:27 AM, David Goldfield wrote:

Gene wrote:

> I don't consider lack of accessibility to be a bug. 

 

As an accessibility tester I disagree. I understand what you are saying in your example of a stove which doesn’t take inclusive design into account. However, if you have a Web site which has no labels on form fields or which doesn’t expose an edit field to a screen reader this is definitely considered a bug or defect and needs to be treated as such.

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

NVDA Certified Expert

 

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and information regarding the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 9:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

 

I don't consider lack of accessibility to be a bug.  A bug is an unintended behavior.  Saying a lack of accessibility is a bug implies that the item was intended to be accessible but isn't because of unanticipated problem or problems. 

If a stove isn't accessible and isn't designed to be, that isn't a bug.  You may call it a flaw, a serious flaw, you may describe it as you wish in terms of advocating for more accessibility, but it isn't a bug.  It is operating as designed. 

If my stove is designed to be accessible and the speech is giving inaccurate numbers as I move through settings, that is a bug. 

Gene

On 5/29/2022 7:49 AM, mike mcglashon wrote:

Quoting:

On considering this further, I don't know if this is a bug in anything. 

It may be that the results shown as you move aren't announced because the function isn't designed to be accessible.
end quote:

 

Wow, wouldn’t that be considered a “major” bug then? Or,

At least a “big flaw”?

Isn’t that bad if someone designs a control on a page to be purposefully inaccessible?

(especially a school clearing house)?

 

Just curious?

 

Please advise as you like.

 

Mike M.

 

Mike mcglashon

Email: Michael.mcglashon@...

Ph: 618 783 9331

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 8:41 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

 

It appears i was wrong about the edit field.  It appears to be a standard edit field.  I didn't hear anything about number of results and moving up and down, as I recall.  I did try using the search field where you enter a key word to find your school and I then got results like yours. 

I figured out how to find a school name.  Its a little work but you can accomplish this in the following way:
Follow the key word search link.
An edit field will become available.  If you are not in forms mode go into forms mode.  Just pressing enter where you are after following the link should do it.
Be in forms mode in the key word search edit field.
Type a word such as Chicago.
You will hear how many results there are.
Down arrow to the first one.  You won't hear the school read but you will hear that you are on the first result.
Press enter.  You have now placed the name in the field you are in and it can be read while in forms mode.  I don't recall if you automatically hear it but you can use read current line or maybe just pressing the down or up arrow will read it.
If that is not the result you want, select all, control a, and press delete.
Write Chicago again.
Down arrow to the second result and press enter.
Again, you will be able to hear the word.
Follow this procedure until you hear the name you want.
Once you do, it is in the field it should be in and you can then activate the continue button, which will now be available.

On considering this further, I don't know if this is a bug in anything.  It may be that the results shown as you move aren't announced because the function isn't designed to be accessible.

Gene

On 5/29/2022 7:07 AM, Gene via groups.io wrote:

No, it isn't standard.  I had to press enter on select a school to make the field editable in the first place.  Then I had to press enter again, since  I am using manual switching in NVDA, to go into forms mode.  You may have to as well, since you are in a field that is not initially editable. 

As far as the select a school edit field is concerned, is that the field you are discussing?  I'll look at the field again but I thought I heard select  a number when I was

Gene

On 5/28/2022 11:36 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Yes, that's standard edit commands. However, when I start typing the
name of a school, NVDA says "this is an auto complete element and
there are # results available. Keyboard users, use up and down arrows
to select an option." The # in the example is, as one might guess, an
actual number. However, when using up and down arrow with NVDA in
focus mode, I just get the same auto complete message and NVDA reads
what I've already typed in, it won't let me actually choose a result.
The question is how do I actually choose a result as intended?
 
On 5/28/22, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
When you are on the line that says enter the name of the school, press
enter.  That makes the field editable and you can then press enter again
to go into focus mode if you aren't automatically placed in it.
 
Gene
 
On 5/28/2022 10:07 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Hi all,
Is the edit field on this page not a conventional one? I play Heardle
every day, and it looks like the edit box on this page should work
similar to that one, but I can't seem to get the one here to work. All
I hear is NVDA telling me that this is an edit box that contains
multiple selections, and how many results are available, but I can't
seem to choose any results. The same happens when you're trying to
select a school to send to, and I suspect I won't have to enter as
much information as it's asking for if I could choose a result. Any
help on this would be appreciated, as I've put this off for two weeks
already. The link is
https://tsorder.studentclearinghouse.org/school/select
Thanks,
Bob
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
.

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: help with an edit field

Gene
 

You didn't cause one.  it isn't your responsibility if people disagree about something you said if you aren't expressing something you think is controversial.  In addition, a little controversy even if you say something people may disagree with, is alright as long as you are staying within the list rules.  I may express an opinion about a program, for example, that is controversial.  There are going to be disagreements.

Gene

On 5/29/2022 11:13 AM, mike mcglashon wrote:

I apologize;

I did not mean to cause a rift.

 

Please advise as you like.

 

Mike M.

 

Mike mcglashon

Email: Michael.mcglashon@...

Ph: 618 783 9331

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 12:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

 

That's a real example of both civility and intellectual open mindedness.  I didn't know you harbor such hostility toward me. 

If you can't be civil and you refuse to discuss what I say without attacking me, don't bother.

Your last message displays a logical fallacy.  You said that you are confident no one in the accessibility field will agree with me.  So what?  That is arguing from authority and doesn't prove anything.  How many people believed the world was flat before Columbuss? 

You have not, in either answer, presented any reasons for believing what you believe.  You just say what you believe. 

Gene

On 5/29/2022 10:51 AM, David Goldfield wrote:

Lack of accessibility isn’t an error? I am quite certain that nobody in the accessibility field will agree with you but I am done with this conversation. You are free to respond to this if you like but I will, unfortunately, resume my habit of skipping your messages so your response will not be read by me.

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

NVDA Certified Expert

 

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and information regarding the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 11:46 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

 

I didn't say anything about what other words someone might want to use, but bug is not correct.  You might want to call it a flaw or an omission, or use some sort of word or phrase that indicates that it is no longer acceptable not to include accessibility, but it isn't a bug. 

One definition from Google I just looked up is:
"an error in a computer program or system."

Lack of accessibility isn't an error.  It may be unconscionable, unacceptable or you may wish to use other wording, but it is not an error.

Gene

On 5/29/2022 10:27 AM, David Goldfield wrote:

Gene wrote:

> I don't consider lack of accessibility to be a bug. 

 

As an accessibility tester I disagree. I understand what you are saying in your example of a stove which doesn’t take inclusive design into account. However, if you have a Web site which has no labels on form fields or which doesn’t expose an edit field to a screen reader this is definitely considered a bug or defect and needs to be treated as such.

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

NVDA Certified Expert

 

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and information regarding the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 9:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

 

I don't consider lack of accessibility to be a bug.  A bug is an unintended behavior.  Saying a lack of accessibility is a bug implies that the item was intended to be accessible but isn't because of unanticipated problem or problems. 

If a stove isn't accessible and isn't designed to be, that isn't a bug.  You may call it a flaw, a serious flaw, you may describe it as you wish in terms of advocating for more accessibility, but it isn't a bug.  It is operating as designed. 

If my stove is designed to be accessible and the speech is giving inaccurate numbers as I move through settings, that is a bug. 

Gene

On 5/29/2022 7:49 AM, mike mcglashon wrote:

Quoting:

On considering this further, I don't know if this is a bug in anything. 

It may be that the results shown as you move aren't announced because the function isn't designed to be accessible.
end quote:

 

Wow, wouldn’t that be considered a “major” bug then? Or,

At least a “big flaw”?

Isn’t that bad if someone designs a control on a page to be purposefully inaccessible?

(especially a school clearing house)?

 

Just curious?

 

Please advise as you like.

 

Mike M.

 

Mike mcglashon

Email: Michael.mcglashon@...

Ph: 618 783 9331

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 8:41 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

 

It appears i was wrong about the edit field.  It appears to be a standard edit field.  I didn't hear anything about number of results and moving up and down, as I recall.  I did try using the search field where you enter a key word to find your school and I then got results like yours. 

I figured out how to find a school name.  Its a little work but you can accomplish this in the following way:
Follow the key word search link.
An edit field will become available.  If you are not in forms mode go into forms mode.  Just pressing enter where you are after following the link should do it.
Be in forms mode in the key word search edit field.
Type a word such as Chicago.
You will hear how many results there are.
Down arrow to the first one.  You won't hear the school read but you will hear that you are on the first result.
Press enter.  You have now placed the name in the field you are in and it can be read while in forms mode.  I don't recall if you automatically hear it but you can use read current line or maybe just pressing the down or up arrow will read it.
If that is not the result you want, select all, control a, and press delete.
Write Chicago again.
Down arrow to the second result and press enter.
Again, you will be able to hear the word.
Follow this procedure until you hear the name you want.
Once you do, it is in the field it should be in and you can then activate the continue button, which will now be available.

On considering this further, I don't know if this is a bug in anything.  It may be that the results shown as you move aren't announced because the function isn't designed to be accessible.

Gene

On 5/29/2022 7:07 AM, Gene via groups.io wrote:

No, it isn't standard.  I had to press enter on select a school to make the field editable in the first place.  Then I had to press enter again, since  I am using manual switching in NVDA, to go into forms mode.  You may have to as well, since you are in a field that is not initially editable. 

As far as the select a school edit field is concerned, is that the field you are discussing?  I'll look at the field again but I thought I heard select  a number when I was

Gene

On 5/28/2022 11:36 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Yes, that's standard edit commands. However, when I start typing the
name of a school, NVDA says "this is an auto complete element and
there are # results available. Keyboard users, use up and down arrows
to select an option." The # in the example is, as one might guess, an
actual number. However, when using up and down arrow with NVDA in
focus mode, I just get the same auto complete message and NVDA reads
what I've already typed in, it won't let me actually choose a result.
The question is how do I actually choose a result as intended?
 
On 5/28/22, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
When you are on the line that says enter the name of the school, press
enter.  That makes the field editable and you can then press enter again
to go into focus mode if you aren't automatically placed in it.
 
Gene
 
On 5/28/2022 10:07 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Hi all,
Is the edit field on this page not a conventional one? I play Heardle
every day, and it looks like the edit box on this page should work
similar to that one, but I can't seem to get the one here to work. All
I hear is NVDA telling me that this is an edit box that contains
multiple selections, and how many results are available, but I can't
seem to choose any results. The same happens when you're trying to
select a school to send to, and I suspect I won't have to enter as
much information as it's asking for if I could choose a result. Any
help on this would be appreciated, as I've put this off for two weeks
already. The link is
https://tsorder.studentclearinghouse.org/school/select
Thanks,
Bob
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
.

 

 

 

 

 



Re: help with an edit field

mike mcglashon
 

I apologize;

I did not mean to cause a rift.

 

Please advise as you like.

 

Mike M.

 

Mike mcglashon

Email: Michael.mcglashon@...

Ph: 618 783 9331

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 12:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

 

That's a real example of both civility and intellectual open mindedness.  I didn't know you harbor such hostility toward me. 

If you can't be civil and you refuse to discuss what I say without attacking me, don't bother.

Your last message displays a logical fallacy.  You said that you are confident no one in the accessibility field will agree with me.  So what?  That is arguing from authority and doesn't prove anything.  How many people believed the world was flat before Columbuss? 

You have not, in either answer, presented any reasons for believing what you believe.  You just say what you believe. 

Gene

On 5/29/2022 10:51 AM, David Goldfield wrote:

Lack of accessibility isn’t an error? I am quite certain that nobody in the accessibility field will agree with you but I am done with this conversation. You are free to respond to this if you like but I will, unfortunately, resume my habit of skipping your messages so your response will not be read by me.

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

NVDA Certified Expert

 

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and information regarding the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 11:46 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

 

I didn't say anything about what other words someone might want to use, but bug is not correct.  You might want to call it a flaw or an omission, or use some sort of word or phrase that indicates that it is no longer acceptable not to include accessibility, but it isn't a bug. 

One definition from Google I just looked up is:
"an error in a computer program or system."

Lack of accessibility isn't an error.  It may be unconscionable, unacceptable or you may wish to use other wording, but it is not an error.

Gene

On 5/29/2022 10:27 AM, David Goldfield wrote:

Gene wrote:

> I don't consider lack of accessibility to be a bug. 

 

As an accessibility tester I disagree. I understand what you are saying in your example of a stove which doesn’t take inclusive design into account. However, if you have a Web site which has no labels on form fields or which doesn’t expose an edit field to a screen reader this is definitely considered a bug or defect and needs to be treated as such.

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

NVDA Certified Expert

 

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and information regarding the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 9:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

 

I don't consider lack of accessibility to be a bug.  A bug is an unintended behavior.  Saying a lack of accessibility is a bug implies that the item was intended to be accessible but isn't because of unanticipated problem or problems. 

If a stove isn't accessible and isn't designed to be, that isn't a bug.  You may call it a flaw, a serious flaw, you may describe it as you wish in terms of advocating for more accessibility, but it isn't a bug.  It is operating as designed. 

If my stove is designed to be accessible and the speech is giving inaccurate numbers as I move through settings, that is a bug. 

Gene

On 5/29/2022 7:49 AM, mike mcglashon wrote:

Quoting:

On considering this further, I don't know if this is a bug in anything. 

It may be that the results shown as you move aren't announced because the function isn't designed to be accessible.
end quote:

 

Wow, wouldn’t that be considered a “major” bug then? Or,

At least a “big flaw”?

Isn’t that bad if someone designs a control on a page to be purposefully inaccessible?

(especially a school clearing house)?

 

Just curious?

 

Please advise as you like.

 

Mike M.

 

Mike mcglashon

Email: Michael.mcglashon@...

Ph: 618 783 9331

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 8:41 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

 

It appears i was wrong about the edit field.  It appears to be a standard edit field.  I didn't hear anything about number of results and moving up and down, as I recall.  I did try using the search field where you enter a key word to find your school and I then got results like yours. 

I figured out how to find a school name.  Its a little work but you can accomplish this in the following way:
Follow the key word search link.
An edit field will become available.  If you are not in forms mode go into forms mode.  Just pressing enter where you are after following the link should do it.
Be in forms mode in the key word search edit field.
Type a word such as Chicago.
You will hear how many results there are.
Down arrow to the first one.  You won't hear the school read but you will hear that you are on the first result.
Press enter.  You have now placed the name in the field you are in and it can be read while in forms mode.  I don't recall if you automatically hear it but you can use read current line or maybe just pressing the down or up arrow will read it.
If that is not the result you want, select all, control a, and press delete.
Write Chicago again.
Down arrow to the second result and press enter.
Again, you will be able to hear the word.
Follow this procedure until you hear the name you want.
Once you do, it is in the field it should be in and you can then activate the continue button, which will now be available.

On considering this further, I don't know if this is a bug in anything.  It may be that the results shown as you move aren't announced because the function isn't designed to be accessible.

Gene

On 5/29/2022 7:07 AM, Gene via groups.io wrote:

No, it isn't standard.  I had to press enter on select a school to make the field editable in the first place.  Then I had to press enter again, since  I am using manual switching in NVDA, to go into forms mode.  You may have to as well, since you are in a field that is not initially editable. 

As far as the select a school edit field is concerned, is that the field you are discussing?  I'll look at the field again but I thought I heard select  a number when I was

Gene

On 5/28/2022 11:36 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Yes, that's standard edit commands. However, when I start typing the
name of a school, NVDA says "this is an auto complete element and
there are # results available. Keyboard users, use up and down arrows
to select an option." The # in the example is, as one might guess, an
actual number. However, when using up and down arrow with NVDA in
focus mode, I just get the same auto complete message and NVDA reads
what I've already typed in, it won't let me actually choose a result.
The question is how do I actually choose a result as intended?
 
On 5/28/22, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
When you are on the line that says enter the name of the school, press
enter.  That makes the field editable and you can then press enter again
to go into focus mode if you aren't automatically placed in it.
 
Gene
 
On 5/28/2022 10:07 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Hi all,
Is the edit field on this page not a conventional one? I play Heardle
every day, and it looks like the edit box on this page should work
similar to that one, but I can't seem to get the one here to work. All
I hear is NVDA telling me that this is an edit box that contains
multiple selections, and how many results are available, but I can't
seem to choose any results. The same happens when you're trying to
select a school to send to, and I suspect I won't have to enter as
much information as it's asking for if I could choose a result. Any
help on this would be appreciated, as I've put this off for two weeks
already. The link is
https://tsorder.studentclearinghouse.org/school/select
Thanks,
Bob
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
.

 

 

 

 

 


Re: help with an edit field

Gene
 

That's a real example of both civility and intellectual open mindedness.  I didn't know you harbor such hostility toward me. 

If you can't be civil and you refuse to discuss what I say without attacking me, don't bother.

Your last message displays a logical fallacy.  You said that you are confident no one in the accessibility field will agree with me.  So what?  That is arguing from authority and doesn't prove anything.  How many people believed the world was flat before Columbuss? 

You have not, in either answer, presented any reasons for believing what you believe.  You just say what you believe. 

Gene

On 5/29/2022 10:51 AM, David Goldfield wrote:

Lack of accessibility isn’t an error? I am quite certain that nobody in the accessibility field will agree with you but I am done with this conversation. You are free to respond to this if you like but I will, unfortunately, resume my habit of skipping your messages so your response will not be read by me.

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

NVDA Certified Expert

 

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and information regarding the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 11:46 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

 

I didn't say anything about what other words someone might want to use, but bug is not correct.  You might want to call it a flaw or an omission, or use some sort of word or phrase that indicates that it is no longer acceptable not to include accessibility, but it isn't a bug. 

One definition from Google I just looked up is:
"an error in a computer program or system."

Lack of accessibility isn't an error.  It may be unconscionable, unacceptable or you may wish to use other wording, but it is not an error.

Gene

On 5/29/2022 10:27 AM, David Goldfield wrote:

Gene wrote:

> I don't consider lack of accessibility to be a bug. 

 

As an accessibility tester I disagree. I understand what you are saying in your example of a stove which doesn’t take inclusive design into account. However, if you have a Web site which has no labels on form fields or which doesn’t expose an edit field to a screen reader this is definitely considered a bug or defect and needs to be treated as such.

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

NVDA Certified Expert

 

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and information regarding the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 9:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

 

I don't consider lack of accessibility to be a bug.  A bug is an unintended behavior.  Saying a lack of accessibility is a bug implies that the item was intended to be accessible but isn't because of unanticipated problem or problems. 

If a stove isn't accessible and isn't designed to be, that isn't a bug.  You may call it a flaw, a serious flaw, you may describe it as you wish in terms of advocating for more accessibility, but it isn't a bug.  It is operating as designed. 

If my stove is designed to be accessible and the speech is giving inaccurate numbers as I move through settings, that is a bug. 

Gene

On 5/29/2022 7:49 AM, mike mcglashon wrote:

Quoting:

On considering this further, I don't know if this is a bug in anything. 

It may be that the results shown as you move aren't announced because the function isn't designed to be accessible.
end quote:

 

Wow, wouldn’t that be considered a “major” bug then? Or,

At least a “big flaw”?

Isn’t that bad if someone designs a control on a page to be purposefully inaccessible?

(especially a school clearing house)?

 

Just curious?

 

Please advise as you like.

 

Mike M.

 

Mike mcglashon

Email: Michael.mcglashon@...

Ph: 618 783 9331

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 8:41 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

 

It appears i was wrong about the edit field.  It appears to be a standard edit field.  I didn't hear anything about number of results and moving up and down, as I recall.  I did try using the search field where you enter a key word to find your school and I then got results like yours. 

I figured out how to find a school name.  Its a little work but you can accomplish this in the following way:
Follow the key word search link.
An edit field will become available.  If you are not in forms mode go into forms mode.  Just pressing enter where you are after following the link should do it.
Be in forms mode in the key word search edit field.
Type a word such as Chicago.
You will hear how many results there are.
Down arrow to the first one.  You won't hear the school read but you will hear that you are on the first result.
Press enter.  You have now placed the name in the field you are in and it can be read while in forms mode.  I don't recall if you automatically hear it but you can use read current line or maybe just pressing the down or up arrow will read it.
If that is not the result you want, select all, control a, and press delete.
Write Chicago again.
Down arrow to the second result and press enter.
Again, you will be able to hear the word.
Follow this procedure until you hear the name you want.
Once you do, it is in the field it should be in and you can then activate the continue button, which will now be available.

On considering this further, I don't know if this is a bug in anything.  It may be that the results shown as you move aren't announced because the function isn't designed to be accessible.

Gene

On 5/29/2022 7:07 AM, Gene via groups.io wrote:

No, it isn't standard.  I had to press enter on select a school to make the field editable in the first place.  Then I had to press enter again, since  I am using manual switching in NVDA, to go into forms mode.  You may have to as well, since you are in a field that is not initially editable. 

As far as the select a school edit field is concerned, is that the field you are discussing?  I'll look at the field again but I thought I heard select  a number when I was

Gene

On 5/28/2022 11:36 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Yes, that's standard edit commands. However, when I start typing the
name of a school, NVDA says "this is an auto complete element and
there are # results available. Keyboard users, use up and down arrows
to select an option." The # in the example is, as one might guess, an
actual number. However, when using up and down arrow with NVDA in
focus mode, I just get the same auto complete message and NVDA reads
what I've already typed in, it won't let me actually choose a result.
The question is how do I actually choose a result as intended?
 
On 5/28/22, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
When you are on the line that says enter the name of the school, press
enter.  That makes the field editable and you can then press enter again
to go into focus mode if you aren't automatically placed in it.
 
Gene
 
On 5/28/2022 10:07 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Hi all,
Is the edit field on this page not a conventional one? I play Heardle
every day, and it looks like the edit box on this page should work
similar to that one, but I can't seem to get the one here to work. All
I hear is NVDA telling me that this is an edit box that contains
multiple selections, and how many results are available, but I can't
seem to choose any results. The same happens when you're trying to
select a school to send to, and I suspect I won't have to enter as
much information as it's asking for if I could choose a result. Any
help on this would be appreciated, as I've put this off for two weeks
already. The link is
https://tsorder.studentclearinghouse.org/school/select
Thanks,
Bob
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
.

 

 

 

 



Re: help with an edit field

David Goldfield
 

Lack of accessibility isn’t an error? I am quite certain that nobody in the accessibility field will agree with you but I am done with this conversation. You are free to respond to this if you like but I will, unfortunately, resume my habit of skipping your messages so your response will not be read by me.

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

NVDA Certified Expert

 

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and information regarding the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 11:46 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

 

I didn't say anything about what other words someone might want to use, but bug is not correct.  You might want to call it a flaw or an omission, or use some sort of word or phrase that indicates that it is no longer acceptable not to include accessibility, but it isn't a bug. 

One definition from Google I just looked up is:
"an error in a computer program or system."

Lack of accessibility isn't an error.  It may be unconscionable, unacceptable or you may wish to use other wording, but it is not an error.

Gene

On 5/29/2022 10:27 AM, David Goldfield wrote:

Gene wrote:

> I don't consider lack of accessibility to be a bug. 

 

As an accessibility tester I disagree. I understand what you are saying in your example of a stove which doesn’t take inclusive design into account. However, if you have a Web site which has no labels on form fields or which doesn’t expose an edit field to a screen reader this is definitely considered a bug or defect and needs to be treated as such.

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

NVDA Certified Expert

 

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and information regarding the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 9:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

 

I don't consider lack of accessibility to be a bug.  A bug is an unintended behavior.  Saying a lack of accessibility is a bug implies that the item was intended to be accessible but isn't because of unanticipated problem or problems. 

If a stove isn't accessible and isn't designed to be, that isn't a bug.  You may call it a flaw, a serious flaw, you may describe it as you wish in terms of advocating for more accessibility, but it isn't a bug.  It is operating as designed. 

If my stove is designed to be accessible and the speech is giving inaccurate numbers as I move through settings, that is a bug. 

Gene

On 5/29/2022 7:49 AM, mike mcglashon wrote:

Quoting:

On considering this further, I don't know if this is a bug in anything. 

It may be that the results shown as you move aren't announced because the function isn't designed to be accessible.
end quote:

 

Wow, wouldn’t that be considered a “major” bug then? Or,

At least a “big flaw”?

Isn’t that bad if someone designs a control on a page to be purposefully inaccessible?

(especially a school clearing house)?

 

Just curious?

 

Please advise as you like.

 

Mike M.

 

Mike mcglashon

Email: Michael.mcglashon@...

Ph: 618 783 9331

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 8:41 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

 

It appears i was wrong about the edit field.  It appears to be a standard edit field.  I didn't hear anything about number of results and moving up and down, as I recall.  I did try using the search field where you enter a key word to find your school and I then got results like yours. 

I figured out how to find a school name.  Its a little work but you can accomplish this in the following way:
Follow the key word search link.
An edit field will become available.  If you are not in forms mode go into forms mode.  Just pressing enter where you are after following the link should do it.
Be in forms mode in the key word search edit field.
Type a word such as Chicago.
You will hear how many results there are.
Down arrow to the first one.  You won't hear the school read but you will hear that you are on the first result.
Press enter.  You have now placed the name in the field you are in and it can be read while in forms mode.  I don't recall if you automatically hear it but you can use read current line or maybe just pressing the down or up arrow will read it.
If that is not the result you want, select all, control a, and press delete.
Write Chicago again.
Down arrow to the second result and press enter.
Again, you will be able to hear the word.
Follow this procedure until you hear the name you want.
Once you do, it is in the field it should be in and you can then activate the continue button, which will now be available.

On considering this further, I don't know if this is a bug in anything.  It may be that the results shown as you move aren't announced because the function isn't designed to be accessible.

Gene

On 5/29/2022 7:07 AM, Gene via groups.io wrote:

No, it isn't standard.  I had to press enter on select a school to make the field editable in the first place.  Then I had to press enter again, since  I am using manual switching in NVDA, to go into forms mode.  You may have to as well, since you are in a field that is not initially editable. 

As far as the select a school edit field is concerned, is that the field you are discussing?  I'll look at the field again but I thought I heard select  a number when I was

Gene

On 5/28/2022 11:36 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Yes, that's standard edit commands. However, when I start typing the
name of a school, NVDA says "this is an auto complete element and
there are # results available. Keyboard users, use up and down arrows
to select an option." The # in the example is, as one might guess, an
actual number. However, when using up and down arrow with NVDA in
focus mode, I just get the same auto complete message and NVDA reads
what I've already typed in, it won't let me actually choose a result.
The question is how do I actually choose a result as intended?
 
On 5/28/22, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
When you are on the line that says enter the name of the school, press
enter.  That makes the field editable and you can then press enter again
to go into focus mode if you aren't automatically placed in it.
 
Gene
 
On 5/28/2022 10:07 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Hi all,
Is the edit field on this page not a conventional one? I play Heardle
every day, and it looks like the edit box on this page should work
similar to that one, but I can't seem to get the one here to work. All
I hear is NVDA telling me that this is an edit box that contains
multiple selections, and how many results are available, but I can't
seem to choose any results. The same happens when you're trying to
select a school to send to, and I suspect I won't have to enter as
much information as it's asking for if I could choose a result. Any
help on this would be appreciated, as I've put this off for two weeks
already. The link is
https://tsorder.studentclearinghouse.org/school/select
Thanks,
Bob
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
.

 

 

 

 


Re: help with an edit field

Gene
 

Also, consider that referring to lack of accessibility aws  a bug makes it sound benign, it was just an unforeseen and unforeseeable error that didn't become evident through testing and evaluation until now.  Lack of accessibility is either a lack of knowledge or a lack of concern or a belief that it isn't necessary for your product.  A bug is something that is in a program that isn't known until testing brings it out.

Gene

On 5/29/2022 10:46 AM, Gene via groups.io wrote:
I didn't say anything about what other words someone might want to use, but bug is not correct.  You might want to call it a flaw or an omission, or use some sort of word or phrase that indicates that it is no longer acceptable not to include accessibility, but it isn't a bug. 

One definition from Google I just looked up is:
"an error in a computer program or system."

Lack of accessibility isn't an error.  It may be unconscionable, unacceptable or you may wish to use other wording, but it is not an error.

Gene

On 5/29/2022 10:27 AM, David Goldfield wrote:

Gene wrote:

> I don't consider lack of accessibility to be a bug. 

 

As an accessibility tester I disagree. I understand what you are saying in your example of a stove which doesn’t take inclusive design into account. However, if you have a Web site which has no labels on form fields or which doesn’t expose an edit field to a screen reader this is definitely considered a bug or defect and needs to be treated as such.

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

NVDA Certified Expert

 

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and information regarding the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 9:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

 

I don't consider lack of accessibility to be a bug.  A bug is an unintended behavior.  Saying a lack of accessibility is a bug implies that the item was intended to be accessible but isn't because of unanticipated problem or problems. 

If a stove isn't accessible and isn't designed to be, that isn't a bug.  You may call it a flaw, a serious flaw, you may describe it as you wish in terms of advocating for more accessibility, but it isn't a bug.  It is operating as designed. 

If my stove is designed to be accessible and the speech is giving inaccurate numbers as I move through settings, that is a bug. 

Gene

On 5/29/2022 7:49 AM, mike mcglashon wrote:

Quoting:

On considering this further, I don't know if this is a bug in anything. 

It may be that the results shown as you move aren't announced because the function isn't designed to be accessible.
end quote:

 

Wow, wouldn’t that be considered a “major” bug then? Or,

At least a “big flaw”?

Isn’t that bad if someone designs a control on a page to be purposefully inaccessible?

(especially a school clearing house)?

 

Just curious?

 

Please advise as you like.

 

Mike M.

 

Mike mcglashon

Email: Michael.mcglashon@...

Ph: 618 783 9331

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 8:41 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

 

It appears i was wrong about the edit field.  It appears to be a standard edit field.  I didn't hear anything about number of results and moving up and down, as I recall.  I did try using the search field where you enter a key word to find your school and I then got results like yours. 

I figured out how to find a school name.  Its a little work but you can accomplish this in the following way:
Follow the key word search link.
An edit field will become available.  If you are not in forms mode go into forms mode.  Just pressing enter where you are after following the link should do it.
Be in forms mode in the key word search edit field.
Type a word such as Chicago.
You will hear how many results there are.
Down arrow to the first one.  You won't hear the school read but you will hear that you are on the first result.
Press enter.  You have now placed the name in the field you are in and it can be read while in forms mode.  I don't recall if you automatically hear it but you can use read current line or maybe just pressing the down or up arrow will read it.
If that is not the result you want, select all, control a, and press delete.
Write Chicago again.
Down arrow to the second result and press enter.
Again, you will be able to hear the word.
Follow this procedure until you hear the name you want.
Once you do, it is in the field it should be in and you can then activate the continue button, which will now be available.

On considering this further, I don't know if this is a bug in anything.  It may be that the results shown as you move aren't announced because the function isn't designed to be accessible.

Gene

On 5/29/2022 7:07 AM, Gene via groups.io wrote:

No, it isn't standard.  I had to press enter on select a school to make the field editable in the first place.  Then I had to press enter again, since  I am using manual switching in NVDA, to go into forms mode.  You may have to as well, since you are in a field that is not initially editable. 

As far as the select a school edit field is concerned, is that the field you are discussing?  I'll look at the field again but I thought I heard select  a number when I was

Gene

On 5/28/2022 11:36 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Yes, that's standard edit commands. However, when I start typing the
name of a school, NVDA says "this is an auto complete element and
there are # results available. Keyboard users, use up and down arrows
to select an option." The # in the example is, as one might guess, an
actual number. However, when using up and down arrow with NVDA in
focus mode, I just get the same auto complete message and NVDA reads
what I've already typed in, it won't let me actually choose a result.
The question is how do I actually choose a result as intended?
 
On 5/28/22, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
When you are on the line that says enter the name of the school, press
enter.  That makes the field editable and you can then press enter again
to go into focus mode if you aren't automatically placed in it.
 
Gene
 
On 5/28/2022 10:07 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Hi all,
Is the edit field on this page not a conventional one? I play Heardle
every day, and it looks like the edit box on this page should work
similar to that one, but I can't seem to get the one here to work. All
I hear is NVDA telling me that this is an edit box that contains
multiple selections, and how many results are available, but I can't
seem to choose any results. The same happens when you're trying to
select a school to send to, and I suspect I won't have to enter as
much information as it's asking for if I could choose a result. Any
help on this would be appreciated, as I've put this off for two weeks
already. The link is
https://tsorder.studentclearinghouse.org/school/select
Thanks,
Bob
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
.

 

 

 




Re: help with an edit field

Gene
 

I didn't say anything about what other words someone might want to use, but bug is not correct.  You might want to call it a flaw or an omission, or use some sort of word or phrase that indicates that it is no longer acceptable not to include accessibility, but it isn't a bug. 

One definition from Google I just looked up is:
"an error in a computer program or system."

Lack of accessibility isn't an error.  It may be unconscionable, unacceptable or you may wish to use other wording, but it is not an error.

Gene

On 5/29/2022 10:27 AM, David Goldfield wrote:

Gene wrote:

> I don't consider lack of accessibility to be a bug. 

 

As an accessibility tester I disagree. I understand what you are saying in your example of a stove which doesn’t take inclusive design into account. However, if you have a Web site which has no labels on form fields or which doesn’t expose an edit field to a screen reader this is definitely considered a bug or defect and needs to be treated as such.

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

NVDA Certified Expert

 

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and information regarding the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 9:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

 

I don't consider lack of accessibility to be a bug.  A bug is an unintended behavior.  Saying a lack of accessibility is a bug implies that the item was intended to be accessible but isn't because of unanticipated problem or problems. 

If a stove isn't accessible and isn't designed to be, that isn't a bug.  You may call it a flaw, a serious flaw, you may describe it as you wish in terms of advocating for more accessibility, but it isn't a bug.  It is operating as designed. 

If my stove is designed to be accessible and the speech is giving inaccurate numbers as I move through settings, that is a bug. 

Gene

On 5/29/2022 7:49 AM, mike mcglashon wrote:

Quoting:

On considering this further, I don't know if this is a bug in anything. 

It may be that the results shown as you move aren't announced because the function isn't designed to be accessible.
end quote:

 

Wow, wouldn’t that be considered a “major” bug then? Or,

At least a “big flaw”?

Isn’t that bad if someone designs a control on a page to be purposefully inaccessible?

(especially a school clearing house)?

 

Just curious?

 

Please advise as you like.

 

Mike M.

 

Mike mcglashon

Email: Michael.mcglashon@...

Ph: 618 783 9331

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 8:41 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

 

It appears i was wrong about the edit field.  It appears to be a standard edit field.  I didn't hear anything about number of results and moving up and down, as I recall.  I did try using the search field where you enter a key word to find your school and I then got results like yours. 

I figured out how to find a school name.  Its a little work but you can accomplish this in the following way:
Follow the key word search link.
An edit field will become available.  If you are not in forms mode go into forms mode.  Just pressing enter where you are after following the link should do it.
Be in forms mode in the key word search edit field.
Type a word such as Chicago.
You will hear how many results there are.
Down arrow to the first one.  You won't hear the school read but you will hear that you are on the first result.
Press enter.  You have now placed the name in the field you are in and it can be read while in forms mode.  I don't recall if you automatically hear it but you can use read current line or maybe just pressing the down or up arrow will read it.
If that is not the result you want, select all, control a, and press delete.
Write Chicago again.
Down arrow to the second result and press enter.
Again, you will be able to hear the word.
Follow this procedure until you hear the name you want.
Once you do, it is in the field it should be in and you can then activate the continue button, which will now be available.

On considering this further, I don't know if this is a bug in anything.  It may be that the results shown as you move aren't announced because the function isn't designed to be accessible.

Gene

On 5/29/2022 7:07 AM, Gene via groups.io wrote:

No, it isn't standard.  I had to press enter on select a school to make the field editable in the first place.  Then I had to press enter again, since  I am using manual switching in NVDA, to go into forms mode.  You may have to as well, since you are in a field that is not initially editable. 

As far as the select a school edit field is concerned, is that the field you are discussing?  I'll look at the field again but I thought I heard select  a number when I was

Gene

On 5/28/2022 11:36 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Yes, that's standard edit commands. However, when I start typing the
name of a school, NVDA says "this is an auto complete element and
there are # results available. Keyboard users, use up and down arrows
to select an option." The # in the example is, as one might guess, an
actual number. However, when using up and down arrow with NVDA in
focus mode, I just get the same auto complete message and NVDA reads
what I've already typed in, it won't let me actually choose a result.
The question is how do I actually choose a result as intended?
 
On 5/28/22, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
When you are on the line that says enter the name of the school, press
enter.  That makes the field editable and you can then press enter again
to go into focus mode if you aren't automatically placed in it.
 
Gene
 
On 5/28/2022 10:07 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Hi all,
Is the edit field on this page not a conventional one? I play Heardle
every day, and it looks like the edit box on this page should work
similar to that one, but I can't seem to get the one here to work. All
I hear is NVDA telling me that this is an edit box that contains
multiple selections, and how many results are available, but I can't
seem to choose any results. The same happens when you're trying to
select a school to send to, and I suspect I won't have to enter as
much information as it's asking for if I could choose a result. Any
help on this would be appreciated, as I've put this off for two weeks
already. The link is
https://tsorder.studentclearinghouse.org/school/select
Thanks,
Bob
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
.

 

 

 



Re: NVDA Add-Ons - About Updating

anthony borg
 

Hi Joesph

 

I really wishing you a good vacation. You really deserve it.

 

Hth

 

Anthony

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: 28 May 2022 23:22
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Add-Ons - About Updating

 

Hi,

Two things:

  1. Add-on Updater will update disabled add-ons (do not confuse this with incompatible add-ons). An add-on update will be shown if: there is an actual update (version differences) and the add-on is seen as compatible with the NVDA version you have.
  2. As for add-ons mentioned in recent thread such as Speech History (see a different thread on that add-on), all I can say is that a birdy told me that significant events are on the horizon (shhh, not here).

Cheers,

Joseph (my official vacation starts on May 31, 2022)


Re: help with an edit field

David Goldfield
 

Gene wrote:

> I don't consider lack of accessibility to be a bug. 

 

As an accessibility tester I disagree. I understand what you are saying in your example of a stove which doesn’t take inclusive design into account. However, if you have a Web site which has no labels on form fields or which doesn’t expose an edit field to a screen reader this is definitely considered a bug or defect and needs to be treated as such.

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

NVDA Certified Expert

 

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and information regarding the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 9:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

 

I don't consider lack of accessibility to be a bug.  A bug is an unintended behavior.  Saying a lack of accessibility is a bug implies that the item was intended to be accessible but isn't because of unanticipated problem or problems. 

If a stove isn't accessible and isn't designed to be, that isn't a bug.  You may call it a flaw, a serious flaw, you may describe it as you wish in terms of advocating for more accessibility, but it isn't a bug.  It is operating as designed. 

If my stove is designed to be accessible and the speech is giving inaccurate numbers as I move through settings, that is a bug. 

Gene

On 5/29/2022 7:49 AM, mike mcglashon wrote:

Quoting:

On considering this further, I don't know if this is a bug in anything. 

It may be that the results shown as you move aren't announced because the function isn't designed to be accessible.
end quote:

 

Wow, wouldn’t that be considered a “major” bug then? Or,

At least a “big flaw”?

Isn’t that bad if someone designs a control on a page to be purposefully inaccessible?

(especially a school clearing house)?

 

Just curious?

 

Please advise as you like.

 

Mike M.

 

Mike mcglashon

Email: Michael.mcglashon@...

Ph: 618 783 9331

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 8:41 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

 

It appears i was wrong about the edit field.  It appears to be a standard edit field.  I didn't hear anything about number of results and moving up and down, as I recall.  I did try using the search field where you enter a key word to find your school and I then got results like yours. 

I figured out how to find a school name.  Its a little work but you can accomplish this in the following way:
Follow the key word search link.
An edit field will become available.  If you are not in forms mode go into forms mode.  Just pressing enter where you are after following the link should do it.
Be in forms mode in the key word search edit field.
Type a word such as Chicago.
You will hear how many results there are.
Down arrow to the first one.  You won't hear the school read but you will hear that you are on the first result.
Press enter.  You have now placed the name in the field you are in and it can be read while in forms mode.  I don't recall if you automatically hear it but you can use read current line or maybe just pressing the down or up arrow will read it.
If that is not the result you want, select all, control a, and press delete.
Write Chicago again.
Down arrow to the second result and press enter.
Again, you will be able to hear the word.
Follow this procedure until you hear the name you want.
Once you do, it is in the field it should be in and you can then activate the continue button, which will now be available.

On considering this further, I don't know if this is a bug in anything.  It may be that the results shown as you move aren't announced because the function isn't designed to be accessible.

Gene

On 5/29/2022 7:07 AM, Gene via groups.io wrote:

No, it isn't standard.  I had to press enter on select a school to make the field editable in the first place.  Then I had to press enter again, since  I am using manual switching in NVDA, to go into forms mode.  You may have to as well, since you are in a field that is not initially editable. 

As far as the select a school edit field is concerned, is that the field you are discussing?  I'll look at the field again but I thought I heard select  a number when I was

Gene

On 5/28/2022 11:36 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Yes, that's standard edit commands. However, when I start typing the
name of a school, NVDA says "this is an auto complete element and
there are # results available. Keyboard users, use up and down arrows
to select an option." The # in the example is, as one might guess, an
actual number. However, when using up and down arrow with NVDA in
focus mode, I just get the same auto complete message and NVDA reads
what I've already typed in, it won't let me actually choose a result.
The question is how do I actually choose a result as intended?
 
On 5/28/22, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
When you are on the line that says enter the name of the school, press
enter.  That makes the field editable and you can then press enter again
to go into focus mode if you aren't automatically placed in it.
 
Gene
 
On 5/28/2022 10:07 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Hi all,
Is the edit field on this page not a conventional one? I play Heardle
every day, and it looks like the edit box on this page should work
similar to that one, but I can't seem to get the one here to work. All
I hear is NVDA telling me that this is an edit box that contains
multiple selections, and how many results are available, but I can't
seem to choose any results. The same happens when you're trying to
select a school to send to, and I suspect I won't have to enter as
much information as it's asking for if I could choose a result. Any
help on this would be appreciated, as I've put this off for two weeks
already. The link is
https://tsorder.studentclearinghouse.org/school/select
Thanks,
Bob
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
.

 

 

 


Re: help with an edit field

mike mcglashon
 

Fair enough,

Point well taken.

 

 

Please advise as you like.

 

Mike M.

 

Mike mcglashon

Email: Michael.mcglashon@...

Ph: 618 783 9331

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 9:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

 

I don't consider lack of accessibility to be a bug.  A bug is an unintended behavior.  Saying a lack of accessibility is a bug implies that the item was intended to be accessible but isn't because of unanticipated problem or problems. 

If a stove isn't accessible and isn't designed to be, that isn't a bug.  You may call it a flaw, a serious flaw, you may describe it as you wish in terms of advocating for more accessibility, but it isn't a bug.  It is operating as designed. 

If my stove is designed to be accessible and the speech is giving inaccurate numbers as I move through settings, that is a bug. 

Gene

On 5/29/2022 7:49 AM, mike mcglashon wrote:

Quoting:

On considering this further, I don't know if this is a bug in anything. 

It may be that the results shown as you move aren't announced because the function isn't designed to be accessible.
end quote:

 

Wow, wouldn’t that be considered a “major” bug then? Or,

At least a “big flaw”?

Isn’t that bad if someone designs a control on a page to be purposefully inaccessible?

(especially a school clearing house)?

 

Just curious?

 

Please advise as you like.

 

Mike M.

 

Mike mcglashon

Email: Michael.mcglashon@...

Ph: 618 783 9331

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2022 8:41 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] help with an edit field

 

It appears i was wrong about the edit field.  It appears to be a standard edit field.  I didn't hear anything about number of results and moving up and down, as I recall.  I did try using the search field where you enter a key word to find your school and I then got results like yours. 

I figured out how to find a school name.  Its a little work but you can accomplish this in the following way:
Follow the key word search link.
An edit field will become available.  If you are not in forms mode go into forms mode.  Just pressing enter where you are after following the link should do it.
Be in forms mode in the key word search edit field.
Type a word such as Chicago.
You will hear how many results there are.
Down arrow to the first one.  You won't hear the school read but you will hear that you are on the first result.
Press enter.  You have now placed the name in the field you are in and it can be read while in forms mode.  I don't recall if you automatically hear it but you can use read current line or maybe just pressing the down or up arrow will read it.
If that is not the result you want, select all, control a, and press delete.
Write Chicago again.
Down arrow to the second result and press enter.
Again, you will be able to hear the word.
Follow this procedure until you hear the name you want.
Once you do, it is in the field it should be in and you can then activate the continue button, which will now be available.

On considering this further, I don't know if this is a bug in anything.  It may be that the results shown as you move aren't announced because the function isn't designed to be accessible.

Gene

On 5/29/2022 7:07 AM, Gene via groups.io wrote:

No, it isn't standard.  I had to press enter on select a school to make the field editable in the first place.  Then I had to press enter again, since  I am using manual switching in NVDA, to go into forms mode.  You may have to as well, since you are in a field that is not initially editable. 

As far as the select a school edit field is concerned, is that the field you are discussing?  I'll look at the field again but I thought I heard select  a number when I was

Gene

On 5/28/2022 11:36 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Yes, that's standard edit commands. However, when I start typing the
name of a school, NVDA says "this is an auto complete element and
there are # results available. Keyboard users, use up and down arrows
to select an option." The # in the example is, as one might guess, an
actual number. However, when using up and down arrow with NVDA in
focus mode, I just get the same auto complete message and NVDA reads
what I've already typed in, it won't let me actually choose a result.
The question is how do I actually choose a result as intended?
 
On 5/28/22, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
When you are on the line that says enter the name of the school, press
enter.  That makes the field editable and you can then press enter again
to go into focus mode if you aren't automatically placed in it.
 
Gene
 
On 5/28/2022 10:07 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Hi all,
Is the edit field on this page not a conventional one? I play Heardle
every day, and it looks like the edit box on this page should work
similar to that one, but I can't seem to get the one here to work. All
I hear is NVDA telling me that this is an edit box that contains
multiple selections, and how many results are available, but I can't
seem to choose any results. The same happens when you're trying to
select a school to send to, and I suspect I won't have to enter as
much information as it's asking for if I could choose a result. Any
help on this would be appreciated, as I've put this off for two weeks
already. The link is
https://tsorder.studentclearinghouse.org/school/select
Thanks,
Bob
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
.

 

 

 

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