Date   

Re: Article on Screen Reader History (including NVDA)

David Goldfield
 

Brett, as the focus of the article seemed to be on Windows screen readers it’s somewhat understandable that Larry Skutchan’s contributions to the field weren’t mentioned. He did develop a Windows screen reader called ASAW which I did use but it never lasted past the Windows 95 era.

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

NVDA Certified Expert

 

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and information regarding the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brett Boyer
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2022 10:13 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Article on Screen Reader History (including NVDA)

 

If an article on screen leader history doesn’t include window eyes or ASAP, as well as some of the international screen readers we’re hearing about from some of your great folks, this article cannot be that great. I know, I need to go read it. I will. But, just looking at this thread, I’m feeling already that this article is not as good as it could be. I will go read it now and shut up.

Thanks

 



On Jul 19, 2022, at 6:13 AM, Pamela Dominguez <pammygirl99@...> wrote:



Because it doesn’t work anywhere near as well as window eyes, and it keeps crapping out.  I’ll be in the middle of something, and it will shut up like somebody pulled the plug.  Part of it is because I’m used to window eyes, and the rest of it is just because it keeps malfunctioning.  Pam.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Gene
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2022 8:08 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Article on Screen Reader History (including NVDA)

 

Is that because you are used to doing some things another way such as use the WE cursor?  Most of what you do with any screen-reader is to issue program and Windows commands and certain screen-reader commands such as read to end, read title bar, and quick navigation keys on web pages.

In short, since most of what is done with a screen-reader doesn't involve screen-reader commands, why do you dislike it so much?

Gene

On 7/19/2022 7:02 AM, Pamela Dominguez wrote:

I used window eyes from about 2002 until a couple of months ago.  I still have the windows seven computer that has it on it.  I like that screenreader.  I have jaws on this windows ten box, and I hate jaws with a passion!  Pam.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Michael Munn
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2022 7:26 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Article on Screen Reader History (including NVDA)

 

I was a user of Window-eyes for several years before they sentenced that screen reader to death. Window-eyes is one the only screen reader is far I know of ever made a deal with Microsoft so this way it’s user can use Office for free. Heck, that was the screen reader my school taught me to use when I was in seventh grade because they have the latest version of Office. Right now I’m a heavy user of Jaws in Windows, and I just recently getting in to Voice Over on the Mac. I do use NVDA but I’m not a full time user of it.  It is good for an operating system to be open sourced so this way the end user with vision problem can have multiple choice to what screen reader they choose to install on their machine.

Best regards

Michael H> Munn

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shawn via groups.io
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2022 9:57 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Article on Screen Reader History (including NVDA)

 

Yeah, I couldn't get that because you have to have a Brazilian bank account in a certain bank to get it. I thought it would be cool to try it. I did have DosVox though for a while and played around with it some years ago. There were some cool games, I especially liked the one where you have to try to land on the moon. But I had to use a different voice, the native voice was incomprehensible to me as it was just made up of a bunch of syllables in wav files. Sounded like an alien robot. For native speakers it wasn't a problem, but for me I hated it. Luckily you could use a Sapi voice with it. It was basically a screen reader for people who didn't want to have to learn windows. It had loads of parts like a word processor, dictionaries, a telnet type client, and a file manager and I forget what else. Lots of people say it makes its users lazy for that reason, and they don't bother learning how to do things with windows and other programs.

Shawn Klein

On 7/18/2022 6:35 PM, Rui Fontes wrote:

And everybody have forgoten a screen reader developed in Brasil, named Virtual Vision...

 

Rui Fontes

 

Às 00:28 de 19/07/2022, Gene escreveu:

the article is interesting and it has good information about JAWS and NVDA.  But it has problems.  It should have said something about Window-eyes because a lot of people used it and it was a good screen-reader.  It helped in development of screen-reader innovations in ways that should have been noted.

But a serious problem in the article is that it gives the reader the impression that there shouldn't need to be independently developed screen-readers if developers of software built accessibility into them.  This is erroneous for two reasons.

First, yes, accessibility should be built into programs and operating systems but we have been better served by screen-readers being developed outside of operating system programmers.  We are much better off having choices when it  comes  to Windows screen-readers.  It is a constantly stated truism that some screen-readers work better with some programs than others.  If Microsoft had developed a good screen-reader from the outset, we would probably only have one screen-reader and even if we would benefit from having more, we wouldn't. 

The article doesn't discuss this at all and the author is evidently completely unaware of the arguments about which is better, one screen-reader developed by the developers of an operating system or what exists regarding Windows.

I think we are much better off as things are. 

Gene

On 7/14/2022 10:06 PM, Laurie Mehta via groups.io wrote:

Hi,

I came across this today and am sharing it here because I think that many here will find it interesting. (Link below my name…)

-Laurie

 

The hidden history of screen readers

 

 

https://www.theverge.com/23203911/screen-readers-history-blind-henter-curran-teh-nvda

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: Reading Japanese with NVDA 2022.2

Sharni-Lee Ward
 

Since Eloquence is paid and I don't like it anyways, that's not an option for me. I dunno how, if at all, those packs would help, and I don't want to change synths. Anything without inflection settings (including most paid synths) sounds woeful to my discerning ears.

On 25/07/2022 6:30 am, Shawn via groups.io wrote:
The question is did you switch ESpeak's language to Japanese. With some synths, they just won't work with Japanese or some other foreign alphabets at all unless you add language packs in Windows. I just opened a Japanese Wikipedia page with the following results. Japanese Eloquence read it in Japanese. ESpeak Japanese read Japanese letter this, Chinese letter that. You may want to check out this page about installing language packs in Windows, or find a synth that will work without them.

https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsupport.microsoft.com%2Fen-us%2Fwindows%2Flanguage-packs-for-windows-a5094319-a92d-18de-5b53-1cfc697cfca8&;data=05%7C01%7C%7Ca7bb77b5ae214a5c60df08da6db3539e%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637942914239707766%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=8LExDKrMOyFnZ6j5bx0i0zGGWO3dkvo48rzzfzWFD%2BA%3D&amp;reserved=0

Shawn Klein

On 7/24/2022 12:58 PM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:
The New Releases page said that Japanese was added to Espeak as well as the packaged Braille Tables. I want to learn Japanese (I started learning in school, then left school, and that was a good fifteen years ago now), and just found out the browser version of Duolingo is accessible with NVDA.


However, I've checked with a couple things (I'm a part of a number of anime fandoms), and NVDA doesn't switch to Japanese when reading passages, instead continuing to say "Japanese-letter" several times, or if I'm scrolling over it, "Japanese-letter" plus several numbers that I suppose are it's unicode designation? But anyways, it is not reflecting the addition of the language bank in Espeak NG. And I know the ProTalker addon has not been compatible for years, though even if it were, there were some weird pronunciation issues with even that.


Is there something I am missing here?








Re: Reading Japanese with NVDA 2022.2

Sharni-Lee Ward
 

This makes me sad. I just wanna learn the language I had to drop in school because I couldn't afford to take the course then, and Duolingo is free... But also there is the problem of Kanji symbols, which are interpreted as Chinese characters (which to be fair, they were first, but not in the context I need them in). Getting NVDA to do two languages simultaneously seems to be beyond us and I am saddened.

On 25/07/2022 4:25 am, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Sun, Jul 24, 2022 at 02:13 PM, David Goldfield wrote:
Also, if we’re talking about a Web page the developer(s) of the page need to be using the language attribute correctly. Just having the page being written or displayed in the Japanese language won’t switch the synth language to Japanese if English is still being used as the default or primary language.
-
I'll just say that this completely accurate observation can be extended to any document where multiple languages are used.  It is up to the author(s) of said material to correctly specify when a language is switching away from, and back to, the primary language and to specify correctly what language is being switched to.

If none of that's in place there is currently no AI involved as far as knowing that a language has switched.  Switching is directly dependent on the necessary markers being present in the source material.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard


Re: Article on Screen Reader History (including NVDA)

David Goldfield
 

Eloquence continues to be popular for some valid reasons. It is easy to understand at extremely high speech rates, its pronunciation is usually excellent and the pronunciation is also consistent and predictable. It also doesn’t tend to interpret most abbreviations, such as reading dr. as drive or Doctor. The same cannot be said for more human-sounding synths which are not always consistent in their pronunciation, even adding extra phonemes or letters to certain text strings not in the text.

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

NVDA Certified Expert

 

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and information regarding the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kim Vaughn
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2022 8:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Article on Screen Reader History (including NVDA)

 

I like Eloquence. It is the easiest to understand with my hearing loss.   

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2022 9:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Article on Screen Reader History (including NVDA)

 

That may account for its initial popularity but it doesn't account for its continued popularity when so many other synthesizers are available.  It is popular because it does what the most people want it to do the best.  It is responsive, pronounces more words than other synthesizers I've tried correctly out of the box, allows for rapid listening while keeping speech more intelligible than other synthesizers I've tried and it is light on computer resources.

I used DeccTalk before there was an Eloquence and, though it has a more pleasant voice, it is not as easy to listen to speech rapidly and miss as few words as with Eloquence.

Some people may say that other less human and more mechanical sounding synthesizers allow faster listening.  I can't say.  But if that is true, it is also evidently true, that one reason Eloquence is so popular is that it allows a good compromise between the sound of the voice and rapid speech intelligibility.  I suspect a lot of users don't want to use a mechanical sounding synthesizer to get faster reading speed.

Gene

On 7/22/2022 9:43 AM, Josh Kennedy wrote:

I also find it interesting that the eloquence voice many people like that is also now on iPhone is now 27 or so years old already. and I think the only reason it became so popular is that Jaws started implementing it and encouraging its use back in early to mid 1996. Jaws 3.2 was the first Jaws for windows version to have eloquence. I got in on cd in the mail in July of 1996 and I thought it was amazing that you just needed a computer with a sound card and no external speech box plugged into the computer. So then eloquence took over, decTalk and Keynote gold software went away because I think eloquence was free with jaws while decTalk software and Keynote were paid products. And eloquence I guess sounded better than both of those. 

 


Re: Reading Japanese with NVDA 2022.2

Sharni-Lee Ward
 

I need it to read the English text as normal and the Japanese text as Japanese, be it a single line or a passage in the midst of English instructions. It does not currently do this and this could pose problems when learning. The ProTalker addon used to do it but alas...

On 25/07/2022 4:13 am, David Goldfield wrote:

Also, if we’re talking about a Web page the developer(s) of the page need to be using the language attribute correctly. Just having the page being written or displayed in the Japanese language won’t switch the synth language to Japanese if English is still being used as the default or primary language.

Of course, if the synth has been set to Japanese and if it’s still not speaking correctly then this is a bit outside of my wheelhouse.

 

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

NVDA Certified Expert

 

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and information regarding the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2022 2:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Reading Japanese with NVDA 2022.2

 

Do you have automatic language switching turned on in Speech settings?

Also, and this is not meant as snarky, are you certain you are using Espeak as your synth?  I'd also suggest, once you're certain that automatic language switching is turned on in NVDA, that you give the Microsoft OneCore Japanese a try, if for no other reason than testing.  It does support text to speech.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard


Re: Reading Japanese with NVDA 2022.2

Sharni-Lee Ward
 

Espeak NG, yes. It's the only one now so I just call it Espeak out of habit. And yes, I know I'm using it, as I am very familiar with the voices and what they're capable of. :)


I do have automatic language switching turned on, but not automatic dialect switching. Is this important?


I don't have any non-English 1Core voices installed and truth be told, don't know how I might get more. There was this lovely British guy called George who got installed one update and disappeared in another, and I miss him. :(

On 25/07/2022 4:08 am, Brian Vogel wrote:

Do you have automatic language switching turned on in Speech settings?

Also, and this is not meant as snarky, are you certain you are using Espeak as your synth?  I'd also suggest, once you're certain that automatic language switching is turned on in NVDA, that you give the Microsoft OneCore Japanese a try, if for no other reason than testing.  It does support text to speech.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard


Re: Article on Screen Reader History (including NVDA)

David Goldfield
 

I have wanted to participate in this discussion since it started as I clearly remember many of the DOS screen readers and how the Windows accessibility landscape unfolded as I was working in the a.t. industry during that time I avoided doing so as I saw it not relevant to the purpose of this list. However, since Brian has made it clear that he’s permitting it I’m going to respond to messages in this thread.

 

As for browse mode and virtual cursor functions not being available in early screen readers I think this depends on how you define early. Window-Eyes was the first screen reader that I remember using this paradigm in the late ‘90s and JAWS added it in version 3.3. Window-Eyes implemented it using MSAA and it was so slow that waiting for pages to load was unbearable. JAWS added the capability a year or so later but pages were rendered much faster even on computers which we would now consider to be painfully slow. When I wrote a blog post paying tribute to Window-Eyes I was also advised by a reader that Artic Winvision added a similar feature but not being a Winvision user I can’t verify this.

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

NVDA Certified Expert

 

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and information regarding the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2022 5:21 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Article on Screen Reader History (including NVDA)

 

I'm not sure this is the place to go into at length how much screen-readers have advanced since they first came out but they have advanced enormously.  For just one example, there was no Browse Mode or Virtual PC Cursor in early screen-readers. 

Gene

On 7/24/2022 4:00 AM, Sean Murphy wrote:

The screen reader for OS2 was released in 1992 Sept. Not sure if this was before Window Bridge or not. The wiki article on Outspoken indicated it was released for the Mac in 1989. This is interesting. Has screen readers really developed beyond what they were like in the 90’s?

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, 20 July 2022 1:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Article on Screen Reader History (including NVDA)

 

On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 10:41 PM, Dan Thompson wrote:

I would love to read the article on screen readers when it is available.

-
Uh, it's what started this entire topic.

The Hidden History of Screen Readers: For decades, blind programmers have been creating the tools their community needs
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

        ~ Dorothy Nevill

 


Re: Reading Japanese with NVDA 2022.2

Shawn
 

The question is did you switch ESpeak's language to Japanese. With some synths, they just won't work with Japanese or some other foreign alphabets at all unless you add language packs in Windows. I just opened a Japanese Wikipedia page with the following results. Japanese Eloquence read it in Japanese. ESpeak Japanese read Japanese letter this, Chinese letter that. You may want to check out this page about installing language packs in Windows, or find a synth that will work without them.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/language-packs-for-windows-a5094319-a92d-18de-5b53-1cfc697cfca8

Shawn Klein

On 7/24/2022 12:58 PM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:
The New Releases page said that Japanese was added to Espeak as well as the packaged Braille Tables. I want to learn Japanese (I started learning in school, then left school, and that was a good fifteen years ago now), and just found out the browser version of Duolingo is accessible with NVDA.


However, I've checked with a couple things (I'm a part of a number of anime fandoms), and NVDA doesn't switch to Japanese when reading passages, instead continuing to say "Japanese-letter" several times, or if I'm scrolling over it, "Japanese-letter" plus several numbers that I suppose are it's unicode designation? But anyways, it is not reflecting the addition of the language bank in Espeak NG. And I know the ProTalker addon has not been compatible for years, though even if it were, there were some weird pronunciation issues with even that.


Is there something I am missing here?





Re: Article on Screen Reader History (including NVDA)

 

On Sun, Jul 24, 2022 at 05:20 AM, Gene wrote:
I'm not sure this is the place to go into at length how much screen-readers have advanced since they first came out but they have advanced enormously.
-
I have allowed this topic to go on well past any direct involvement with NVDA, and that's because it is of clear interest to a large number among the readership and this "walk down memory lane" has blessedly remained constrained to this single topic.  I see no point in shutting it down now, nor of trying to steer it back to NVDA, either.  We're so deep into thread drift territory that there's no turning back.  I can't recall the last topic that made it to over 110 posts and counting.

If anyone has tired of this topic, and would rather not see one more post from it, that's what the "Mute this Topic" link at the end of every message that gets sent was put there for.  Activate it.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard


Re: Reading Japanese with NVDA 2022.2

 

On Sun, Jul 24, 2022 at 02:13 PM, David Goldfield wrote:
Also, if we’re talking about a Web page the developer(s) of the page need to be using the language attribute correctly. Just having the page being written or displayed in the Japanese language won’t switch the synth language to Japanese if English is still being used as the default or primary language.
-
I'll just say that this completely accurate observation can be extended to any document where multiple languages are used.  It is up to the author(s) of said material to correctly specify when a language is switching away from, and back to, the primary language and to specify correctly what language is being switched to.

If none of that's in place there is currently no AI involved as far as knowing that a language has switched.  Switching is directly dependent on the necessary markers being present in the source material.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard


Re: Reading Japanese with NVDA 2022.2

David Goldfield
 

Also, if we’re talking about a Web page the developer(s) of the page need to be using the language attribute correctly. Just having the page being written or displayed in the Japanese language won’t switch the synth language to Japanese if English is still being used as the default or primary language.

Of course, if the synth has been set to Japanese and if it’s still not speaking correctly then this is a bit outside of my wheelhouse.

 

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

NVDA Certified Expert

 

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and information regarding the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2022 2:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Reading Japanese with NVDA 2022.2

 

Do you have automatic language switching turned on in Speech settings?

Also, and this is not meant as snarky, are you certain you are using Espeak as your synth?  I'd also suggest, once you're certain that automatic language switching is turned on in NVDA, that you give the Microsoft OneCore Japanese a try, if for no other reason than testing.  It does support text to speech.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard


Re: Reading Japanese with NVDA 2022.2

 

Do you have automatic language switching turned on in Speech settings?

Also, and this is not meant as snarky, are you certain you are using Espeak as your synth?  I'd also suggest, once you're certain that automatic language switching is turned on in NVDA, that you give the Microsoft OneCore Japanese a try, if for no other reason than testing.  It does support text to speech.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard


Add-on Updater and Windows Ap Essentials 22.08 #addonrelease

 

Hello NVDA community,

After weeks of hard work, I’m delighted to announce the immediate release of Add-on Updater and Windows App Essentials 22.08. Add-on Updater 22.08 is a major update, while Windows App Essentials 22.08 is a minor release filled with bug fixes. For now you must download these releases manually (I have queued these add-ons for distribution on community add-ons website):

 

Key highlights:

  • Add-on Updater: this add-on has gone through a significant rewrite. In particular, the assumptions from the past four years have been revised, reimagined, and refined. Three changes are notable: first, you can now ask NVDA to check for, download, and update add-ons in the background provided that: you are using Windows 10 or later, NVDA is actually installed, and update notification is set to toast (default). This will be a welcome change for people working on tasks and do not wish to be interrupted with a dialog telling you that NVDA add-ons are available – you will see toasts instead. In relation to this, the menu item you will see after checking for updates is now called “review add-on updates”, and as a bonus, NVDA will tell you exactly how many add-on updates are available. Second, if you have one or more add-ons disabled, Add-on Updater will no longer update them automatically, or if add-on updates list is showing, disabled add-ons will not be checked by default. This is because in recent NVDA releases, updating disabled add-ons will actually enable them after NVDA restarts. Third, you can now check for add-on updates from multiple sources (internally called “protocols”). This is perhaps the most significant change to Add-on Updater in years – previously Add-on Updater checked for updates for add-ons registered on community add-ons website (addons.nvda-project.org). Starting from version 22.08, you can ask Add-on Updater to check for add-ons registered on Spanish NVDA community website in addition to the international add-ons website, and you can choose which sources to obtain updates from. As always, the default source is the international website, but for folks using add-ons from other sources, this will be a welcome change (a special thank you to members of the Spanish NVDA community for keeping their add-ons website up to date and for giving me guidance on implementing this change; this change does not replace Tienda add-on). There are other changes under the hood, including removing what I hope to be the last remnants of Python 2 from 2018.
  • Windows App Essentials: version 22.08 is filled with refinements and bug fixes. Notably, changes were made to support more Windows 11 Version 22H2 (preview) features and changes. For Solitaire Collection fans, version 4.13 of this game improves accessibility, notably card suits and ranks are announced thanks to information coming from the game itself. As a result, future versions of Windows app Essentials will remove workarounds for Solitaire Collection (later this year).

 

IMPORTANT NOTES:

  • These will be the last add-on releases (from me) to support NVDA 2021.3. From September 2022 releases, Add-on Updater and Windows App Essentials will require newer NVDA releases (Add-on Updater = 2022.2, Windows App Essentials = 2022.1). In late August, Add-on Updater will not offer updates for folks running 2021.3, so I advise updating to newer NVDA releases as soon as possible (ideally yes if add-ons are compatible).
  • Add-on Updater: version 22.08 does not replace Tienda from Spanish community. Also, if you do switch add-on update sources, you will be asked to confirm if you wish to do so.
  • Windows App Essentials: version 22.08 will be the last version to support Windows 10 Version 21H1 (May 2021 Update/build 19043). Starting from September, Windows 21H2 releases will be required (Windows 10/build 19044/November 2021 Update, Windows Server 2022/build 20348, Windows 11/original release/build 22000). If you are indeed running Windows 10 May 2021 Update, PLEASE UPGRADE ASAP to the latest Windows 10 or 11 release as Microsoft will end support for May 2021 Update this December.

 

Enjoy the new add-on releases.

Cheers,

Joseph


Reading Japanese with NVDA 2022.2

Sharni-Lee Ward
 

The New Releases page said that Japanese was added to Espeak as well as the packaged Braille Tables. I want to learn Japanese (I started learning in school, then left school, and that was a good fifteen years ago now), and just found out the browser version of Duolingo is accessible with NVDA.


However, I've checked with a couple things (I'm a part of a number of anime fandoms), and NVDA doesn't switch to Japanese when reading passages, instead continuing to say "Japanese-letter" several times, or if I'm scrolling over it, "Japanese-letter" plus several numbers that I suppose are it's unicode designation? But anyways, it is not reflecting the addition of the language bank in Espeak NG. And I know the ProTalker addon has not been compatible for years, though even if it were, there were some weird pronunciation issues with even that.


Is there something I am missing here?


How does NVDA process the Tab key in browse mode?

Adlevision
 

I’m in the process of designing a course on web accessibility from a screen reader perspective. After using almost every screen reader that has ever existed since the late 80s, I thought I had a good handle on how they worked until now.

I’m flummoxed as to how NVDA (and JAWS and Narrator) is able to synchronize the Tab key in browse mode, such that if the virtual focus is within a normally non-focusable object like a paragraph, system focus moves to the nearest tab-focusable object relative to the virtual caret, rather than relative to the last synchronized browser focus. I can’t tell if and in what manner NVDA is intercepting the Tab key.

For example, assume the following code:
element 1: <button>Hit me</button>
Element 2: <p>I’m only focusable in browse mode</p>
Element 3: <a href=“http://knowbility.org”>These are the folks I’m designing the course for</a>
Element 4: <p>I’m some more text</p>

NVDA behavior: arrowing down from Element 1 to element 4 then pressing Shift-Tab moves focus to element 3, as God intended.

VoiceOver behavior in Safari (an often reliable case for something broken): arrowing from Element 1 to Element 4, then pressing Shift+Tab, moves focus to Element 1, because Element 3 was the last system focus.

I don’t know of any way for the screen reader to send an action to the accessibility API that sets a “here I am” pointer to an object that can’t receive keyboard focus in the absence of a screen reader.

I ran into this puzzle when I realized that web pages can script the Tab key. In the <dialog> element or role=“dialog”, JavaScript can capture the Tab key and make it wrap within the dialog. To me, this implies that screen readers (any of them) are not intercepting the Tab key. Yet, they have to also set keyboard focus relative to the browse mode position when the Tab key is pressed, which requires some sort of processing.

I’m sure the answer is something simple, and I’m overthinking it. But Every possibility I can overthink of wouldn’t work in either the above code example or in a tab ring scripted for a modal.

Thanks in advance,
Neill


Re: NVDA 2022.2 and Vocalizer Driver Version 5

Daniel Sommerfeld
 

Hi Abbie and all.


Sorry if i wasn't very clear. I will copy the list entry here so you know what i mean.


Nuance Vocalizer 5.5 driver; Status: Incompatible; Version: 2.1.2; Autor: Tiflotecnia, LDA.


So i am really talking about the version 2. You can activate your license with a key file. I am using this old driver also, because there is a german voice, wich is not available on version 3.

What confuses me is, that at the beginning of the list entry it sais version 5. Sorry for confusing you. :-)


Regards

Daniel

Am 23.07.2022 um 23:25 schrieb Abbie Taylor:

Hello. I use Code Factory's Vocalizer. When I upgraded to the latest version of NVDA, there was no problem. It still works. I hope that helps.


Re: update eloquence/vocaliser codefactory add-on

David Goldfield
 

Hi. You can download the latest Eloquence/Vocalizer software from the following link.

https://codefactoryglobal.com/app-store/voices-for-nvda/

 

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

NVDA Certified Expert

 

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and information regarding the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Michael Micallef at FITA
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2022 1:32 AM
To: nvda mailing list (nvda@nvda.groups.io) <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] update eloquence/vocaliser codefactory add-on
Sensitivity: Personal

 

Dear NVDA Users,

 

I have the nvda2022.2 installed on my syste m but now I need to update my eloquence/vocaliser add-on from codefactory.es.

 

So how I  can get the eloquence/vocaliser fully compatible with the latest nvda2022.2 version?

 

Kind regards


Re: update eloquence/vocaliser codefactory add-on

Brian's Mail list account
 

This is what happens when there is more than one version of the same fish in the sea?
Brian

--
bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.(Virgin media)
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian's Mail list account via groups.io" <bglists@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2022 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] update eloquence/vocaliser codefactory add-on


Did you read this message before you asked this??
Hello!


NVDA 2022.2 is not a add-on breaking compatibility version...

If you mean Vocalizer-Expressive from Tiflotecnia, the last driver is
version 3.1.7 and it is compatible with NVDA 2022.1 and beyond...


The direct link for download is:

https://www.tiflotecnia.net/ftp/vocalizer_expressive_driver-3.1.7.nvda-addon


Best regards,

Rui Fontes
Tiflotecnia, Lda.




Às 20:48 de 22/07/2022, Daniel Sommerfeld escreveu:
Hi all.


I was on vacation the last days and so i don't know, if there are new
compatible drivers for the vocalizer drivers for NVDA 2022.2. Does
anyone know more about that?


And one more question. Isn't there something like an automatic update
feature for those things? I find it really hard to always keep track
of these things.


Thanks for help.


Regards

Daniel















Re: update eloquence/vocaliser codefactory add-on

Brian's Mail list account
 

Did you read this message before you asked this??
Hello!


NVDA 2022.2 is not a add-on breaking compatibility version...

If you mean Vocalizer-Expressive from Tiflotecnia, the last driver is
version 3.1.7 and it is compatible with NVDA 2022.1 and beyond...


The direct link for download is:

https://www.tiflotecnia.net/ftp/vocalizer_expressive_driver-3.1.7.nvda-addon


Best regards,

Rui Fontes
Tiflotecnia, Lda.




Às 20:48 de 22/07/2022, Daniel Sommerfeld escreveu:

Hi all.


I was on vacation the last days and so i don't know, if there are new
compatible drivers for the vocalizer drivers for NVDA 2022.2. Does
anyone know more about that?


And one more question. Isn't there something like an automatic update
feature for those things? I find it really hard to always keep track
of these things.


Thanks for help.


Regards

Daniel






Re: NVDA 2022.2 Losing Focus

Brian's Mail list account
 

I mentioned this when it appeared to be saying it was running a portable version after an update and doing a complete shut down and a restart fixed this. Some system labelled files just don't like to be deleted. This was a problem even in old XP.

Another thing always worth a try is to see if the registry fixing tool can sort it out. Yet another is to see what else is running when the software giving the problems is running.
Sometimes if part of office is stuck running and you open something all sorts of funny stuff can happen.
Brian

--
bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.(Virgin media)
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2022 11:38 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA 2022.2 Losing Focus


I’m the victim of that for the first time in 12 years of running nvda. I rebooted last time, and, it worked. Give that a try.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eduardo Fermiano Luccas
Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2022 3:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA 2022.2 Losing Focus



Please note, after updating any software, it is a good idea to restart the computer. Restart by going to the Shutdown dialog, selecting “restart” and pressing ENTER. Updating software can change files which are in use. This can lead to instability and strange behaviour which is resolved by rebooting. This is the first thing to try if you do notice anything odd after updating.



Em sáb., 23 de jul. de 2022 às 14:34, Dzhovani <dzhovani.chemishanov@... <mailto:dzhovani.chemishanov@...> > escreveu:

Hi all,
Recently I installed the new NVDA version, but it started causing problems. For some apps, it announces the windows, but nothing inside it. The process of the app must be killed and the app started again so that it might work. This solution does not work in one particular case described below so I had to downgrade NVDA.
Conditions:
NVDA 2022.2
Windows 10
user account control is active
OpenVPNConnectGUI installed

scenario:
start open vpn gui
click "yes" on the uac security dialog
the window of the app is no longer accessible.

Downgrading NVDA resolved the issue, so it is the new version. Does anyone had such issues or are they able to replicate this one? I'm asking so that I'm sure before opening an issue on Github.






--

eduardo fermiano luccas

joinville, brasil

músico e editor de áldio iniciante

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