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Re: NVDA and Fractions

Quentin Christensen
 

I expect whoever was designing the lock screen, looked at their mock up with the time written in whatever font it's in, came across the ratio character and visually liked the placement of it a little bit better - it never occurred to them that anyone would do anything other than visually look at that screen.  Definitely odd that it was allowed though.

On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 10:03 AM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Quentin,

        Thanks.  I agree that it's bizarre that Microsoft decided to use the ratio symbol in time.  It actually looks like a colon set slightly lower than center, but it's not something I would ever have thought of, nor thought it was not a colon, until you mentioned this.

         I also confirmed that my regular expression and replacement make NVDA stop saying "ratio" as part of time (at least when I have it written out in a MS-Word document using the ratio symbol as the separator).  But since AM and PM are read as on would expect one can simplify the regular expression to:

([1]*[0-9]+)(.)([0-5]{1}[0-9]{1}) ([a,A,p,P][m,M])

and the replacement expression to:  \1 \3 \4

since there's no need to separate the A or P from the M to get things announced as one would expect.

It's been some years since I had to use regular expressions with any regularity but they're somewhat like riding a bicycle in that once you've done that you can pick it up again pretty much anytime later on.

 
-- 
Brian

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.

    ~ Lauren Bacall

    





--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 
Re: NVDA and Fractions

Brian Vogel
 

Quentin,

        Thanks.  I agree that it's bizarre that Microsoft decided to use the ratio symbol in time.  It actually looks like a colon set slightly lower than center, but it's not something I would ever have thought of, nor thought it was not a colon, until you mentioned this.

         I also confirmed that my regular expression and replacement make NVDA stop saying "ratio" as part of time (at least when I have it written out in a MS-Word document using the ratio symbol as the separator).  But since AM and PM are read as on would expect one can simplify the regular expression to:

([1]*[0-9]+)(.)([0-5]{1}[0-9]{1}) ([a,A,p,P][m,M])

and the replacement expression to:  \1 \3 \4

since there's no need to separate the A or P from the M to get things announced as one would expect.

It's been some years since I had to use regular expressions with any regularity but they're somewhat like riding a bicycle in that once you've done that you can pick it up again pretty much anytime later on.

 
-- 
Brian

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.

    ~ Lauren Bacall

    
Re: NVDA and Fractions

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Brian,

This is the character
∶
Visually, it looks very similar to a regular colon : - to be honest, I don't really understand why there is a character devoted to it when visually 99% of people would never know the difference.  In fact though, used properly, it is the kind of character that could be beneficial to screen reader users - as the synthesizer or screen reader then doesn't need to try and ascertain the context of two dots on top of each other to work out whether it is a colon or a ratio.  As we've seen in the case of the time on the Windows lock screen however, if you give people the option to mess something up....

Here's a page with all the characteristics of the ratio symbol: http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/2236/index.htm

Regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 9:38 AM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Quentin,

            Are you able to snag the ratio character you refer to and send it to me via e-mail?

            In any case, the following regular expression should catch the time as shown by Microsoft no matter what the character used between the hour and the minute:

                        ([1]*[0-9]+)(.)([0-5]{1}[0-9]{1}) ([a,A,p,P])([m,M])

and use the following replace string to get it pronounced correctly (note, I am going to presume that the backslash is used as the match string notation, if you regular expression interpreter uses the dollar sign substitute it where I have a backslash):

                        \1 \3 \4 \5


this would take the string "6:37 PM" and break it up as "6 37 P M" for the synthesizer.
--
Brian

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.

    ~ Lauren Bacall

    





--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 
Re: NVDA and Fractions

Brian Vogel
 

Quentin,

            Are you able to snag the ratio character you refer to and send it to me via e-mail?

            In any case, the following regular expression should catch the time as shown by Microsoft no matter what the character used between the hour and the minute:

                        ([1]*[0-9]+)(.)([0-5]{1}[0-9]{1}) ([a,A,p,P])([m,M])

and use the following replace string to get it pronounced correctly (note, I am going to presume that the backslash is used as the match string notation, if you regular expression interpreter uses the dollar sign substitute it where I have a backslash):

                        \1 \3 \4 \5


this would take the string "6:37 PM" and break it up as "6 37 P M" for the synthesizer.
--
Brian

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.

    ~ Lauren Bacall

    
Re: i've a problem with webvisum

Marco Oros
 

OK, I've tried this link, what did You've posted and It works.
But, why this happened?
Marco
Re: i've a problem with webvisum

Marco Oros
 

Yes, but It means, that old version of webvisum doesn't work with current Firefox.
I tried this new version.
Re: NVDA and Fractions

Quentin Christensen
 

Looks like Brian sorted out the cup issue, but I can answer the one ratio 48 thing on Windows startup.  Normally a clock would be displayed as 1:48, that is 1 colon 48.  Ratios are written very similarly - I always thought it was the same symbol, so computer monitors are often 16:9 which is for every 16 pixels they are wide, they are 9 high.  It turns out there is a "ratio" symbol, which looks exactly like a colon, only set slightly higher.  For reasons known only to Microsoft, they chose to use that symbol to display the clock on the Windows lock screen.  I've raised it with them, but really the best way to influence change (on this or other issues) is for as many people to be heard as possible and also write to them - either to @msftenable on twitter, the disability answer desk, or accessibility feedback page: https://microsoftaccessibility.uservoice.com/forums/307429-microsoft-accessibility-feedback

Regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 4:50 AM, John Sanfilippo <johnsanfilippo@...> wrote:
Hi,

I have no solution, but do also experience this and similar odd "super
interpretations" which are annoying.

I'm not sure if the problem is with NVDA or with the chosen speech
synth. For instance, I'm using Microsoft's SAPI5, David.

O, and when my Mac boots in win10 the logon voice is e-speak. It says
"one ratio 48" instead of "thirteen 48" or "one 48 PM".

John S




On 10/17/16 13:30, Brian Vogel wrote:
> Hello All,
>
>          On the JFW group a thread has started entitled, How to insert a
> 1-digit fraction into a 2013 word document
> <https://jfw.groups.io/g/main/topic/how_to_insert_a_1_digit/2911704?p=,,,100,0,0,0::RecentPostDate%2FSticky,,,100,2,0,2911704>
>
>           I started playing with NVDA and Window-Eyes to see how they'd
> handle three-character fraction designations versus single vulgar
> fraction characters for vulgar fractions other than one fourth, one
> half, and three quarters.  With NVDA I've run into an interesting issue
> that I cannot seem to fix in the context of writing something incredibly
> common:  a recipe.   Virtually any recipe you name might contain a
> fraction of a cup of something.  When I use one slash three for one
> third, or two slash three for two thirds, the word cup that follows it
> is consistently announced as Cuban Pesos, not cup.  This is not true
> when I use a vulgar fraction character ahead of the word cup, and NVDA
> does what I consider the more natural thing and doesn't announce
> "vulgar" or "vulgar fraction" followed by one third or two thirds, but
> just says the fractional amount and the word cup gets said as cup.
>
>           I have tried tweaking the default and voice dictionaries, but
> must be doing something wrong.  The pattern I'm using is the word cup,
> and the replacement is the word cup, and I make sure that it's set for
> whole word only.  Even after doing this I still get "Cuban pesos" after
> the three-character version of a vulgar fraction.  I have exited NVDA
> and restarted it and it makes no difference.
>
>           I either don't have the format down correctly for what I need
> to put in for the dictionary, have the wrong dictionary, or there's some
> sort of bug here as I can't imagine "Cuban pesos" to be something you'd
> want said for "cup" except in the very rarest of circumstances.
>
>           Can anyone help me out here?
> --
> */Brian/*
>
> */Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.
>  If you’re alive, it isn’t./*
>
> /    /~ Lauren Bacall
>
>
>
>
>






--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 
Re: i've a problem with webvisum

P. Otter
 

yes, that's correct, but the new webvisum add-on from firefox seems to be the problem.
when i remove the new version cames from firefox and i reinstall the old version that was mentioned before, the problem was solved.
cheers
paul otter

----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2016 10:08 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] i've a problem with webvisum


No I am having the same thing to.
I did go to webvisum.com and logged in just fine so the site is still up.



On 18/10/2016 2:12 a.m., P. Otter wrote:
hello all, i've a problem with webvisum.
the username is correct, and also the password but webvisum add-on comes with the message server connection error.
is this only in my situation or are there more who has problems with webvisum?
if so, i have to wait until there is a solution, if not, i have to try to solve the problem on my computer.
cheers
paul otter
Re: NVDA and Fractions

Gene
 

It sounds like a synthesizer issue.  Cup is read properly by synthesizers I've used.  I would expect the speech dictionary to cause it to be spoken correctly but your message appears to indicate that it isn't.  You might try the synthesizer dictionary instead of the default.  For unknown reasons, I can't change how something is spoken at times with the default dictionary but the change is honored if I use the synthesizer dictionary.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2016 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Fractions

John,

           I'm using Microsoft SAPI5 David as well.  I hadn't thought about changing synthesizers but there had still ought to be a way to force an exception such that anytime the whole word "cup" is seen, which requires a white space character before the C and after the P, it's pronounced as "cup" because that's what I want it to be pronounced as.  I thought that was the whole idea behind the dictionaries.  There are lots of people who work with jargon of various sorts who want to force certain abbreviations to be read as though they're the whole word, and the like.  There has got to be a way to tell NVDA to tell whatever gets passed "cup" that it's always cup, but I'll be darned if I can figure out what!

--
Brian

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.

    ~ Lauren Bacall

    
Re: orbit20 prototype recording

Shaun Everiss
 

a .ogg file is an ogg vorbis encoded file.
First go to codecguide.com and get their latest mega codec package.
also get vlc from that site.
vlc, winamp, foobar, windows media player, media player classic media player home cinimar, and many other players will run ogg files.
The klite codec pack will install and enable codecs for most other things and is what I load on all systems I maintain.
Its just about every codec you can have.
Note there is some unwanted things, don't accept every licence, and click the no thanks checkboxes which are displayed.
if unsure unchecky.com is you friend here.

On 18/10/2016 4:27 a.m., Kevin Huber wrote:
HI Josh:

What is a .ogg file and what software do you need to run it?


On 10/14/16, Josh Kennedy <joshknnd1982@...> wrote:
hello

here is a recording i made of the orbit20 prototype device. let me know
what you all think by emailing joshknnd1982@...


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5454959/2016_10_14-18_00_58.ogg




--
mozilla thunderbird email client





.
Re: i've a problem with webvisum

Roger Stewart
 

I've been getting this here for the last 2 days. I suspect it's a problem at Webvisum itself and they'll get it sorted soon.



Roger

On 10/17/2016 3:08 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
No I am having the same thing to.
I did go to webvisum.com and logged in just fine so the site is still up.



On 18/10/2016 2:12 a.m., P. Otter wrote:
hello all, i've a problem with webvisum.
the username is correct, and also the password but webvisum add-on comes with the message server connection error.
is this only in my situation or are there more who has problems with webvisum?
if so, i have to wait until there is a solution, if not, i have to try to solve the problem on my computer.
cheers
paul otter
Re: Remote Access Download

Hicks Steven (ROYAL CORNWALL HOSPITALS NHS TRUST) <steven.hicks@...>
 

Thanks so much, so I can put in the name of a remote machine on our network and connect to that?
Does it read the logon screen or any errors if the password is incorrect etc?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of P. Otter
Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2016 2:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Remote Access Download

yes, it is very easy.
goto http://www.nvdaremote.com
there you can download it if you enter on it, choose open then it will be opened by nvda.
nvda asks you if you want to install this add-on.
press on yes then it will install it.
after that you have to restart nvda then all is done.
after this, you can open it, you can find it under extra.
press connect there you find client, keep that setting.
under it you can tell if you wish to controll another machine or this machine will be controlled by another machine.
then address, there you can fill in, nvdaremote.com.
the password you choose has to be the same as on the other machine.
now you can connect and all is done.
it works great!!!!!
cheers
paul otter

----- Original Message -----
From: "Hicks Steven (CORNWALL IT SERVICES)" <steven.hicks@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2016 2:33 PM
Subject: [nvda] Remote Access Download


Hi friends,

Can anyone point me in the right direction for infomratio/downloads on how
to do this with NVDA?



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********************************************************************************************************************

This message may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient please inform the
sender that you have received the message in error before deleting it.
Please do not disclose, copy or distribute information in this e-mail or take any action in reliance on its contents:
to do so is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.

Thank you for your co-operation.

NHSmail is the secure email and directory service available for all NHS staff in England and Scotland
NHSmail is approved for exchanging patient data and other sensitive information with NHSmail and GSi recipients
NHSmail provides an email address for your career in the NHS and can be accessed anywhere
For more information and to find out how you can switch, visit www.nhsdigital.nhs.uk/nhsmail

********************************************************************************************************************
Re: i've a problem with webvisum

Shaun Everiss
 

No I am having the same thing to.
I did go to webvisum.com and logged in just fine so the site is still up.

On 18/10/2016 2:12 a.m., P. Otter wrote:
hello all, i've a problem with webvisum.
the username is correct, and also the password but webvisum add-on comes with the message server connection error.
is this only in my situation or are there more who has problems with webvisum?
if so, i have to wait until there is a solution, if not, i have to try to solve the problem on my computer.
cheers
paul otter
Re: NVDA and Fractions

Brian Vogel
 

Tyler,

          For those not familiar with regular expressions feel free to skip this post.

          I found the way to limit this to something that has some multi character typed fraction ahead of the word "cup" by using a regular expression match for the following regular expression:

([1-9]+/[1-9]+[0-9]*) cup

and replacing it with the regular expression:

\1 Cup

and it works like a charm.  This is entered into the NVDA default dictionary.  Thanks much for the bit about cup with a capital C always being said as "cup."  

I would have thought that Cuban Pesos would have required an all caps abbreviation akin to USD for U.S. dollars or GBP for Great Britain Pounds.

It's also handy to know that the implementation of regular expressions used under NVDA uses the backslash character, and not the dollar sign character, to denote the actual string matched by the numbered parentheses enclosed matching string.

--
Brian

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.

    ~ Lauren Bacall

    
Re: NVDA and Fractions

Tyler Spivey
 

This is your synth.
If you're using one of the Microsoft voices, try this dictionary entry:
Pattern: cup
Replacement: Cup
Type: Whole Word
We replace cup (lowercase) with Cup (capital C). This is enough to get the synth to not turn it into an abbreviation. However, if it changes the stress of the word cup, you might not want to do it so broadly, and only replace after fractions or digits.

On 10/17/2016 10:50 AM, John Sanfilippo wrote:
Hi,

I have no solution, but do also experience this and similar odd "super
interpretations" which are annoying.

I'm not sure if the problem is with NVDA or with the chosen speech
synth. For instance, I'm using Microsoft's SAPI5, David.

O, and when my Mac boots in win10 the logon voice is e-speak. It says
"one ratio 48" instead of "thirteen 48" or "one 48 PM".

John S




On 10/17/16 13:30, Brian Vogel wrote:
Hello All,

On the JFW group a thread has started entitled, How to insert a
1-digit fraction into a 2013 word document
<https://jfw.groups.io/g/main/topic/how_to_insert_a_1_digit/2911704?p=,,,100,0,0,0::RecentPostDate%2FSticky,,,100,2,0,2911704>

I started playing with NVDA and Window-Eyes to see how they'd
handle three-character fraction designations versus single vulgar
fraction characters for vulgar fractions other than one fourth, one
half, and three quarters. With NVDA I've run into an interesting issue
that I cannot seem to fix in the context of writing something incredibly
common: a recipe. Virtually any recipe you name might contain a
fraction of a cup of something. When I use one slash three for one
third, or two slash three for two thirds, the word cup that follows it
is consistently announced as Cuban Pesos, not cup. This is not true
when I use a vulgar fraction character ahead of the word cup, and NVDA
does what I consider the more natural thing and doesn't announce
"vulgar" or "vulgar fraction" followed by one third or two thirds, but
just says the fractional amount and the word cup gets said as cup.

I have tried tweaking the default and voice dictionaries, but
must be doing something wrong. The pattern I'm using is the word cup,
and the replacement is the word cup, and I make sure that it's set for
whole word only. Even after doing this I still get "Cuban pesos" after
the three-character version of a vulgar fraction. I have exited NVDA
and restarted it and it makes no difference.

I either don't have the format down correctly for what I need
to put in for the dictionary, have the wrong dictionary, or there's some
sort of bug here as I can't imagine "Cuban pesos" to be something you'd
want said for "cup" except in the very rarest of circumstances.

Can anyone help me out here?
--
*/Brian/*

*/Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.
If you’re alive, it isn’t./*

/ /~ Lauren Bacall
Re: NVDA and Fractions

Brian Vogel
 

John,

           I'm using Microsoft SAPI5 David as well.  I hadn't thought about changing synthesizers but there had still ought to be a way to force an exception such that anytime the whole word "cup" is seen, which requires a white space character before the C and after the P, it's pronounced as "cup" because that's what I want it to be pronounced as.  I thought that was the whole idea behind the dictionaries.  There are lots of people who work with jargon of various sorts who want to force certain abbreviations to be read as though they're the whole word, and the like.  There has got to be a way to tell NVDA to tell whatever gets passed "cup" that it's always cup, but I'll be darned if I can figure out what!

--
Brian

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.

    ~ Lauren Bacall

    
Re: NVDA and Fractions

John Sanfilippo
 

Hi,

I have no solution, but do also experience this and similar odd "super
interpretations" which are annoying.

I'm not sure if the problem is with NVDA or with the chosen speech
synth. For instance, I'm using Microsoft's SAPI5, David.

O, and when my Mac boots in win10 the logon voice is e-speak. It says
"one ratio 48" instead of "thirteen 48" or "one 48 PM".

John S

On 10/17/16 13:30, Brian Vogel wrote:
Hello All,

On the JFW group a thread has started entitled, How to insert a
1-digit fraction into a 2013 word document
<https://jfw.groups.io/g/main/topic/how_to_insert_a_1_digit/2911704?p=,,,100,0,0,0::RecentPostDate%2FSticky,,,100,2,0,2911704>

I started playing with NVDA and Window-Eyes to see how they'd
handle three-character fraction designations versus single vulgar
fraction characters for vulgar fractions other than one fourth, one
half, and three quarters. With NVDA I've run into an interesting issue
that I cannot seem to fix in the context of writing something incredibly
common: a recipe. Virtually any recipe you name might contain a
fraction of a cup of something. When I use one slash three for one
third, or two slash three for two thirds, the word cup that follows it
is consistently announced as Cuban Pesos, not cup. This is not true
when I use a vulgar fraction character ahead of the word cup, and NVDA
does what I consider the more natural thing and doesn't announce
"vulgar" or "vulgar fraction" followed by one third or two thirds, but
just says the fractional amount and the word cup gets said as cup.

I have tried tweaking the default and voice dictionaries, but
must be doing something wrong. The pattern I'm using is the word cup,
and the replacement is the word cup, and I make sure that it's set for
whole word only. Even after doing this I still get "Cuban pesos" after
the three-character version of a vulgar fraction. I have exited NVDA
and restarted it and it makes no difference.

I either don't have the format down correctly for what I need
to put in for the dictionary, have the wrong dictionary, or there's some
sort of bug here as I can't imagine "Cuban pesos" to be something you'd
want said for "cup" except in the very rarest of circumstances.

Can anyone help me out here?
--
*/Brian/*

*/Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.
If you’re alive, it isn’t./*

/ /~ Lauren Bacall
NVDA and Fractions

Brian Vogel
 

Hello All,

         On the JFW group a thread has started entitled, How to insert a 1-digit fraction into a 2013 word document

          I started playing with NVDA and Window-Eyes to see how they'd handle three-character fraction designations versus single vulgar fraction characters for vulgar fractions other than one fourth, one half, and three quarters.  With NVDA I've run into an interesting issue that I cannot seem to fix in the context of writing something incredibly common:  a recipe.   Virtually any recipe you name might contain a fraction of a cup of something.  When I use one slash three for one third, or two slash three for two thirds, the word cup that follows it is consistently announced as Cuban Pesos, not cup.  This is not true when I use a vulgar fraction character ahead of the word cup, and NVDA does what I consider the more natural thing and doesn't announce "vulgar" or "vulgar fraction" followed by one third or two thirds, but just says the fractional amount and the word cup gets said as cup.

          I have tried tweaking the default and voice dictionaries, but must be doing something wrong.  The pattern I'm using is the word cup, and the replacement is the word cup, and I make sure that it's set for whole word only.  Even after doing this I still get "Cuban pesos" after the three-character version of a vulgar fraction.  I have exited NVDA and restarted it and it makes no difference.

          I either don't have the format down correctly for what I need to put in for the dictionary, have the wrong dictionary, or there's some sort of bug here as I can't imagine "Cuban pesos" to be something you'd want said for "cup" except in the very rarest of circumstances.

          Can anyone help me out here?
--
Brian

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.

    ~ Lauren Bacall

    
Re: orbit20 prototype recording

Antony Stone
 

Ogg Vorbis is a lossy compression format for audio, rather like mp3 but
without the doubtful licensing status.

The majority of media players can handle it quite happily.


Antony.

On Monday 17 October 2016 at 17:27:16, Kevin Huber wrote:

HI Josh:

What is a .ogg file and what software do you need to run it?

On 10/14/16, Josh Kennedy <joshknnd1982@...> wrote:
hello

here is a recording i made of the orbit20 prototype device. let me know
what you all think by emailing joshknnd1982@...

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5454959/2016_10_14-18_00_58.ogg
--
"I estimate there's a world market for about five computers."

- Thomas J Watson, Chairman of IBM

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.
Re: orbit20 prototype recording

Kevin Huber
 

HI Josh:

What is a .ogg file and what software do you need to run it?

On 10/14/16, Josh Kennedy <joshknnd1982@...> wrote:
hello

here is a recording i made of the orbit20 prototype device. let me know
what you all think by emailing joshknnd1982@...


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5454959/2016_10_14-18_00_58.ogg




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