On Oct 22, 2020, at 3:21 PM, David Moore <jesusloves1966@...> wrote:



The mail app for Windows 10 works beautifully! I work with a thousand emails per day between three accounts! I wrote a tutorial for the mail app that I can send you! David Moore

On Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 9:06 AM John Sanfilippo <johnsanfilippo@...> wrote:

Hi, which PC app do you like for mail. I'm watching out for something to replace Thunderbird. Thanks.

John Sanfilippo

Hi,
Had to dig into C++ part of NvDA to figure this out:
This setting sets browse mode line length, so yes, it applies to when reading by line. Specifically, based on what I can tell, it will do its best to break at word boundaries. This is one of the reasons why links can "span" across multiple lines in browse mode.
In terms of documenting this, one way to improve this is taking Brian's suggestions into account: expand that section and give practical examples, like the following:

This field sets the maximum length of a line in browse mode (in characters) for reading by line purposes.
Unlike documents in programs such as Word and Notepad, browse mode documents do not have a specific line length or a new line character to denote ends of lines.
Because of this, you can set arbitrary line lengths between 10 and 250 characters, and NVDA will try to split lines at word boundaries.
A side effect of this setting is that links and other elements will be split onto multiple browse mode lines.

I'm sure we can make it better, but at least the one I wrote above might be a useful starting point and captures the discussion so far.
Cheers,
Joseph



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2020 9:23 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Settings Documentation

We'll see what others say but I know it applies to moving by lines. If I do something else that causes a line to be read, such as move by screen, with page up or down, or move to beginning or end of a document or tab, I would think it would apply in all those contexts, but we'll see what others say.

The intelligent question is a very interesting one and One I haven't thought of. Based on my experience, I don't recall ever having words split when I read in browse mode and the document has no such splitting, I think it is intelligent.

Just how much of such discussions should be in the user guide depends on what the purpose of the guide is. Perhaps some of these stipulations should be in some sort of document for developers or a wiki rather than in a user guide.

I wonder if this or that effect of a command my not be considered when discussing it by those who really know details. A wiki might be a good way to address this. I just found this very interesting discrepancy:
If I set the line length to a short amount, moving using k to move by link will cause an entire link to be read, no matter how long. Moving by arrow or tab and shift tab, will cause the line length stipulated to be read with more of the link being read as I move in the link. Its an interesting discrepancy and one I wonder if those knowledgeable in the matter have given any thought about as to implementation and what is desirable.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2020 10:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Settings Documentation

On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 10:32 PM, Gene wrote:
I would compare it to Word Wrap in Notepad except that you define the number of characters before the wrap occurs.- Gene, that is a good analogy. But what I want to know is what "reading command context(s)" this has an effect on. I'm imagining only line-by-line reading, but . . .

Having something under the setting such as, "If a document has a line longer than the number of characters you set, for line reading it will be split into multiple virtual lines of the maximum length you specify."

I also wonder if it's intelligent as far as splitting at word boundaries, not hard and fast character counts. Mid-word splits would make things potentially very ugly.

That setting, naked as it is, is not something that's intuitive, clearly, just based on this topic. And I'm not saying that you're arguing that it is, just restating the need for some context regarding settings where the effect of same is in no way immediately obvious to the uninitiated (and even the initiated, much later on).

It's interesting that this topic has come up. I've been using Thunderbird for around ten years and I'm currently running it on a system that was probably build around 2007 or 2008 which I bought refurbished and TB is almost as snappy and responsive on that system as Notepad. Yet I remember a dialog that I had with someone with a much more modern system with 32 GB of RAM who reported that TB was very slow, which truly mystified me. In fact, I recently read an article describing Mozilla's plans to improve and modernize Thunderbird with responsiveness being one of the items they wanted to address. This really surprised me as I wondered what they could possibly do to improve TB's performance. Yet this tells me that TB, on some systems, does present noticeable performance issues. I wish I knew more about what those systems have in common but Mozilla is clearly asking the same question and I suspect they'll come closer to finding the answer much faster than I will.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 10/22/2020 3:35 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 03:03 PM, Gene wrote:

It may be that on some systems, Thunderbird doesn't work correctly.

-
Oh, just based on repeated comments over time on the blind-tech-related groups about sluggishness and Tbird I am quite certain that's the case.

But what I believe, personally, is that the issue does not lie with Thunderbird itself, but something about how those systems are configured, and whatever it is seems to be in some deep, dark, non-obvious corner.  As I said in another topic earlier today, real bugs hit a huge number of users in the same way, and the sluggishness with Tbird, while not isolated to one person, is definitely isolated to a very small number.  It seems dependent on the machine it's being run on.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 

Hi,
Had to dig into C++ part of NvDA to figure this out:
This setting sets browse mode line length, so yes, it applies to when reading by line. Specifically, based on what I can tell, it will do its best to break at word boundaries. This is one of the reasons why links can "span" across multiple lines in browse mode.
In terms of documenting this, one way to improve this is taking Brian's suggestions into account: expand that section and give practical examples, like the following:

This field sets the maximum length of a line in browse mode (in characters) for reading by line purposes.
Unlike documents in programs such as Word and Notepad, browse mode documents do not have a specific line length or a new line character to denote ends of lines.
Because of this, you can set arbitrary line lengths between 10 and 250 characters, and NVDA will try to split lines at word boundaries.
A side effect of this setting is that links and other elements will be split onto multiple browse mode lines.

I'm sure we can make it better, but at least the one I wrote above might be a useful starting point and captures the discussion so far.
Cheers,
Joseph



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2020 9:23 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Settings Documentation

We'll see what others say but I know it applies to moving by lines. If I do something else that causes a line to be read, such as move by screen, with page up or down, or move to beginning or end of a document or tab, I would think it would apply in all those contexts, but we'll see what others say.

The intelligent question is a very interesting one and One I haven't thought of. Based on my experience, I don't recall ever having words split when I read in browse mode and the document has no such splitting, I think it is intelligent.

Just how much of such discussions should be in the user guide depends on what the purpose of the guide is. Perhaps some of these stipulations should be in some sort of document for developers or a wiki rather than in a user guide.

I wonder if this or that effect of a command my not be considered when discussing it by those who really know details. A wiki might be a good way to address this. I just found this very interesting discrepancy:
If I set the line length to a short amount, moving using k to move by link will cause an entire link to be read, no matter how long. Moving by arrow or tab and shift tab, will cause the line length stipulated to be read with more of the link being read as I move in the link. Its an interesting discrepancy and one I wonder if those knowledgeable in the matter have given any thought about as to implementation and what is desirable.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2020 10:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Settings Documentation

On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 10:32 PM, Gene wrote:
I would compare it to Word Wrap in Notepad except that you define the number of characters before the wrap occurs.- Gene, that is a good analogy. But what I want to know is what "reading command context(s)" this has an effect on. I'm imagining only line-by-line reading, but . . .

Having something under the setting such as, "If a document has a line longer than the number of characters you set, for line reading it will be split into multiple virtual lines of the maximum length you specify."

I also wonder if it's intelligent as far as splitting at word boundaries, not hard and fast character counts. Mid-word splits would make things potentially very ugly.

That setting, naked as it is, is not something that's intuitive, clearly, just based on this topic. And I'm not saying that you're arguing that it is, just restating the need for some context regarding settings where the effect of same is in no way immediately obvious to the uninitiated (and even the initiated, much later on).

On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 10:32 PM, Gene wrote:

I would compare it to Word Wrap in Notepad except that you define the number of characters before the wrap occurs.

-
Gene, that is a good analogy.  But what I want to know is what "reading command context(s)" this has an effect on.  I'm imagining only line-by-line reading, but . . .

Having something under the setting such as, "If a document has a line longer than the number of characters you set, for line reading it will be split into multiple virtual lines of the maximum length you specify."

I also wonder if it's intelligent as far as splitting at word boundaries, not hard and fast character counts.  Mid-word splits would make things potentially very ugly.

That setting, naked as it is, is not something that's intuitive, clearly, just based on this topic.  And I'm not saying that you're arguing that it is, just restating the need for some context regarding settings where the effect of same is in no way immediately obvious to the uninitiated (and even the initiated, much later on).
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 

On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 03:03 PM, Gene wrote:

It may be that on some systems, Thunderbird doesn't work correctly.

-
Oh, just based on repeated comments over time on the blind-tech-related groups about sluggishness and Tbird I am quite certain that's the case.

But what I believe, personally, is that the issue does not lie with Thunderbird itself, but something about how those systems are configured, and whatever it is seems to be in some deep, dark, non-obvious corner.  As I said in another topic earlier today, real bugs hit a huge number of users in the same way, and the sluggishness with Tbird, while not isolated to one person, is definitely isolated to a very small number.  It seems dependent on the machine it's being run on.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 

Hi all,

<snip I guess when working out where best to add information, what would you suggest needs adding?  That seems to describe the feature to me, but maybe I am too familiar with it to see what is missing?

PL] When would I want to alter this setting?

 

Pranav

Quentin,

         Here's some input in the form of questions.

         What constitutes a line?

          Does the maximum number of characters result in truncation and, if so, under what reading conditions?  (I can't imagine this setting affects read all behavior, for instance).

          If a line (after defined) is longer than that maximum, what happens when that occurs during browse mode?

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 

Hi folks,

I am now using NVDA 20.3> However, I noticed when I go to websites using firefox and read through the text, NVDA constantly tell me emphasized and not emphasized. I assume it is referring to either underlined or bold text. Is this a new default setting in NVDA? How can I turn this feature off> I just want to read the text and most of the time I care less if a text is underlined or bold. So telling me emphasized or not emphasized several times in one line or one sentence of text makes it hard to focus on the content of this line or sentence.

Any suggestion will be appreciated.

Regards,

Ibrahim

Hello nvda community! I am facing an issue with NVDA screen reader software. Yesterday I update my Windows 10 version 2018.3 to 2020.
So when I updated my Windows nvda software does not work properly.
It doesn't speak some buttons example when I press the tab button start button cortana button show desktop button and some more buttons but nvda hasn't speak some buttons and dialogue boxes.
When I going to Chrome browser in every time nvda has not responded.
I have to reset the all nvda settings but my problem is not solved.
I already uninstall the software and reinstall it but no change.
Narrator and jaws both are working properly.
How can I solve my problem please help me. Thank you

Hey Sara, you'll only get "blank" when you are trying to read the callsign you just entered.

In that case, hit Numpad 4, then a few quick taps of Numpad 5. I'm using a PC keyboard, so you'll have to change those to their Laptop equivalents.

when simply arrowing up and down through a pre-existing list of check-ins, Numpad 5 works every time here.

On 2020-10-22 4:00 p.m., Sarah k Alawami wrote:

I can't do that. I use an app called "netlogger." and using what ever that would be in laptop keys yields "blank blank blank" even though I typed in the stuff. So that won't work. You can find out more about netlogger here. and it's free so feel free to download and see what I mean.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 22 Oct 2020, at 11:57, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hi Sara,

Using JAWS, there was a setting to 'spell alpha numeric expressions.'  NVDA does  not have this option. What I do when running nets is to highlight the callsign and then use the keypad 5 key to read the callsign and if I can't tell what the call is initially, I double punch the 5 key to have the expression spelled alpha numerically as in alpha alpha 2 victor Mike.

On 10/22/2020 1:26 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

Hello to all. For those that don't know, I'm an amateur radio operator, and in a week I'm due to run a net. Fine, except I struggle with reading ham calls. I know on the BNS there was a ham calls option where it would read those such as ke7zum. Is there such a thing for nvda? Or can an option be thought of, an add on that could be turned on and off at will to allow for such? I know this won't happen by the 27th when I'm due to control, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like this.

I'm using the ibm tts voices but espeak and david does this as well. I can't code or I would find a way to do this myself.

The thing that makes this harder is not all call signs are 2 by 3 like mine. Some are a 1 by 1, or a 1 by 2. I've even seen some 2 by 2 calls.

Thanks all.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

I can't do that. I use an app called "netlogger." and using what ever that would be in laptop keys yields "blank blank blank" even though I typed in the stuff. So that won't work. You can find out more about netlogger here. and it's free so feel free to download and see what I mean.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 22 Oct 2020, at 11:57, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hi Sara,

Using JAWS, there was a setting to 'spell alpha numeric expressions.'  NVDA does  not have this option. What I do when running nets is to highlight the callsign and then use the keypad 5 key to read the callsign and if I can't tell what the call is initially, I double punch the 5 key to have the expression spelled alpha numerically as in alpha alpha 2 victor Mike.

On 10/22/2020 1:26 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

Hello to all. For those that don't know, I'm an amateur radio operator, and in a week I'm due to run a net. Fine, except I struggle with reading ham calls. I know on the BNS there was a ham calls option where it would read those such as ke7zum. Is there such a thing for nvda? Or can an option be thought of, an add on that could be turned on and off at will to allow for such? I know this won't happen by the 27th when I'm due to control, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like this.

I'm using the ibm tts voices but espeak and david does this as well. I can't code or I would find a way to do this myself.

The thing that makes this harder is not all call signs are 2 by 3 like mine. Some are a 1 by 1, or a 1 by 2. I've even seen some 2 by 2 calls.

Thanks all.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

Hi Sara,

Using JAWS, there was a setting to 'spell alpha numeric expressions.'  NVDA does  not have this option. What I do when running nets is to highlight the callsign and then use the keypad 5 key to read the callsign and if I can't tell what the call is initially, I double punch the 5 key to have the expression spelled alpha numerically as in alpha alpha 2 victor Mike.

On 10/22/2020 1:26 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

Hello to all. For those that don't know, I'm an amateur radio operator, and in a week I'm due to run a net. Fine, except I struggle with reading ham calls. I know on the BNS there was a ham calls option where it would read those such as ke7zum. Is there such a thing for nvda? Or can an option be thought of, an add on that could be turned on and off at will to allow for such? I know this won't happen by the 27th when I'm due to control, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like this.

I'm using the ibm tts voices but espeak and david does this as well. I can't code or I would find a way to do this myself.

The thing that makes this harder is not all call signs are 2 by 3 like mine. Some are a 1 by 1, or a 1 by 2. I've even seen some 2 by 2 calls.

Thanks all.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"