Date   

Re: Reading printed landscape sheet

 

Farhan,

          Check the Canon support pages for your device.  I have several clients using Canon multi-functions with NVDA, one of whom uses that method exclusively for her scanning needs.   The software interface is accessible.  

           There is probably an updated version of the full package of software for your device unless it is quite old.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: Golden Cursor question

 

Gene,

             Whether you wish to believe it or not, I can definitively state that mouse routing as you describe it and the actual ability to move the mouse as a sighted person does are not, in any way, shape, or form, even roughly analogous.   The whole reason for an add-on such as Golden Cursor is because this is the case and Golden Cursor is doing physical movement of the mouse pointer on the screen just as happens when using the mouse in the conventional way.

              It's not that there is not quite a bit of functional overlap between what can be accomplished by either method, but there are some things, usually for sites with accessibility problems, that can be achieved with Golden Cursor that cannot otherwise be achieved.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: Reading printed landscape sheet

farhan israk
 

Thank you. Though I have cannon scanner, I use open book to scan documents. I don't use in build software of cannon because nvda doesn't say any option of that software.


On Tue, 19 Feb 2019, 12:39 am Brian Vogel <britechguy@... wrote:
On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 03:00 AM, Brian's Mail list account wrote:
Often its the formatting that gets mangled when you do this I find.
Seriously, then the time has come to invest in a multi-function machine that can do the job, and with ease.

All of my Canon multi-functions for the last 15 years or so have been able to scan a document in either landscape or portrait format and create the corresponding OCRed and fully readable PDF.   I seem to recall recently it having actually scanned one that was portrait, but with a landscape banner running up the left side of the page, such that the banner was recognized.  This wasn't a good thing, though, so we ended up covering it up.

I think the top price, new, I've paid is around $80 and the cheapest one, now long gone was $29.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: Golden Cursor question

Gene
 

I know that Window-eyes and JAWS have ways of moving the mouse such as by pixels and in the case of Window-eyes, in some other way that I don't recall now, sort of by structure.  I remembered the term while reviewing my message.  it is by clip, as Window-eyes called it.  But both also allow for moving the mouse around the screen as you do in NVDA.  The difference is that in NVDA, you move the review position, then route the mouse to where you stop the review navigator. 
 
In JAWS, you could move the mouse to the word click.  In NVDA, you would move the review navigator to the word click, then route the mouse.  the mouse ends up in the same place.  I'm simply saying that your statement that the mouse can't be moved from the keyboard in NVDA is factually, not a matter of opinion, not correct.  I am not disagreeing that JAWS and
Window-eyes allow for different, more precise movements.  I'm also not arguing that the Golden Cursor add-on is necessary in NVDA to move the mouse in finer and more varied ways.  But your statement is factually incorrect. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Nutt
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2019 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Golden Cursor question

Hi Jean,

 

But again, although you answered my question, it just proves to me that I couldn’t find what I wanted, because it is not there, that is moving the mouse using the keyboard.  This is there, if you download Golden Cursor, but I’ve had this in Window-Eyes for years, so I couldn’t imagine managing without it now.  It even exists in JAWS.  Even mouse search doesn’t currently exist in NVDA, so to me, this isn’t screen reading at its best at the moment.  That’s only to me, remember, just one guy who is an advanced screen reader user, and in that respect, as I’ve always said, NVDA, isn’t there yet.  I wish it would be.

 

Another example of this problem is the Izotope plug in installer.  NVDA doesn’t see the screen at all, nothing is read, so you have to OCR it.  When I install with JAWS, it sees the screen, and I can move the mouse to the Next button, but I can’t click it by tabbing nor object naving to it, because NVDA simply doesn’t see the screen, unless I OCR it.  JAWS sees it out of the box.  This is why I still maintain that video hooking is a necessary evil.

 

I know now that many programs use UIA now, so it’s less important, but the ability to manipulate the mouse via the keyboard, is still much needed when using custom apps.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 18 February 2019 17:00
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Golden Cursor question

 

In the following response, I shall give desktop layout commands.  I don't use the laptop layout and don't know those commands for what we are discussing.

 

There aren't specifically mouse movement keys such as in JAWS.  Read the review section of the manual or the relevant parts.  5.5 is a relevant section.  I'm not sure if there are any others.  You will see such commands as num[pad 9, move to next line, numpad 8, read current line, numpad 7 move to and read previous line.  These are review keys and don't affect the application, they review the screen.  I'm talking about what they do in screen review mode.  They have similar functions when in object navigation but they apply to the object that has focus.

 

To move the mouse to the review position, use the command numpad insert numpad slash.  To left click the mouse, use numpad slash. To right click, use numpad Times, which I believe is also the asterisk.  It's immediately to the right of numpad slash.  

 

If you can't find how to do something in NVDA, it is not good methodology or procedure to assume that it can't be done.  Asking here may provide information about how to do it or of an add-on that does.

 

Gene  

----- Original Message -----

From: Steve Nutt

Sent: Monday, February 18, 2019 4:47 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Golden Cursor question

 

Hello Jean,

 

So what are the mouse movement keys via the keyboard then?  I’m sorry I can’t find them.

 

Thanks.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 18 February 2019 08:47
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Golden Cursor question

 

You can move the mouse with the keyboard now.  You can't move it as precisely.  I don't have an opinion about whether the Golden Cursor features should be incorporated into the source code.  But your implication that the mouse can't be moved without the Golden Cursor is not correct.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Steve Nutt

Sent: Monday, February 18, 2019 2:27 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Golden Cursor question

 

Jean,

 

I think the whole Golden Cursor thing should be in NVDA to be honest.  The ability to move the mouse using the keyboard has been in screen readers, since the invention of Windows.

 

Supernova has it, System Access has it, JAWS has it, Window-Eyes was best at it, and so on.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 17 February 2019 20:08
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Golden Cursor question

 

The search feature should, I think, be in NVDA, not in the Golden Cursor. This is important funcionality and is too important to depend on a user downloading an add-on to have it available.

 

Gene 

----- Original Message -----

From: Steve Nutt

Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2019 1:58 PM

Subject: [nvda] Golden Cursor question

 

Hi,

 

In my efforts to find out if Golden Cursor is as good as the mouse with JAWS, I’d say not quite.  Let me explain.

 

I just downloaded it, and there seems to be no way to search for a string of text within GC and have the mouse land on that text, so you can just click it, without routing, saving positions, etc.

 

Could this possibly be added?  A Mouse Search in NVDA?  I use Search in JAWS cursor all the time, and it moves the mouse to where I want it.

 

Or am I really stupid and missing it?

 

Someone suggested that GC does more than the JAWS cursor, but I don’t really see that.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

--

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

Tel: +44(0)1438-742286

Mob: +44(0)7956-334938

Fax: +44(0)1438-759589

Email: steve@...

Web: http://www.comproom.co.uk

 


Re: Golden Cursor question

 

On Tue, Feb 19, 2019 at 10:47 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:
I also imagine that the use of Mouse Keys with a screen reader using desktop layout would be a fraught proposition.
Well, since the 8, 4, 6, and 2 keys get used for all sorts of things (yes, most often in combination with a modifier, but still) when you're using a desktop layout the probability of what I call "fat fingering" and getting some pretty interesting (as in the ancient Chinese curse, "May you live an interesting life,") results are pretty high.

When it comes to combining lots of mixed use in to a very confined space, and given what I've observed over 10 years of tutoring, I would be very hesitant to go that route.  Others, of course, may differ.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: Golden Cursor question

Steve Nutt
 

But none of your keystrokes do actually move the mouse, other than routing to focus.  This is not precise mouse movement.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 18 February 2019 17:56
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Golden Cursor question

 

I understand that.  But using the JAWS cursor if you don't know the very small movement commands, and most JAWS users don't, is equivalent to screen review in NVDA.  I wasn't talking about various more precise ways to move the mouse.  I was answering the question of how you move the mouse in NVDA, not discussing the limits of that movement.  And you can also move the mouse when in object navigation mode.  I have done so in the past to work with a program I couldn't gain proper access to using screen review.  In JAWS, the Touch Cursor would have had to be used for that program.  and, just as in JAWS, you can move by word or character when moving the mouse with the NVDA review commands.  As I said, these are equivalent to moving the JAWS cursor using the commands most JAWS users know about.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, February 18, 2019 11:06 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Golden Cursor question

 

On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 12:00 PM, Gene wrote:

To move the mouse to the review position, use the command numpad insert numpad slash.  To left click the mouse, use numpad slash. To right click, use numpad Times, which I believe is also the asterisk.  It's immediately to the right of numpad slash.  

Gene, these are, at best, distant approximations of actually moving the mouse around, and I'm aware of all of the mouse "snap to" commands in both NVDA and JAWS.

What Golden Cursor does is entirely different, and actually allows the movement of the native mouse pointer around the screen to specific positions.  I don't even know how, exactly, I can describe the difference accurately, but the "Move Mouse to Current Navigator Object" and corresponding "Navigate to object under the mouse" aren't even necessarily moving the mouse pointer at all.  Actions by Golden Cursor literally do.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: Golden Cursor question

Steve Nutt
 

Hi Jean,

 

But again, although you answered my question, it just proves to me that I couldn’t find what I wanted, because it is not there, that is moving the mouse using the keyboard.  This is there, if you download Golden Cursor, but I’ve had this in Window-Eyes for years, so I couldn’t imagine managing without it now.  It even exists in JAWS.  Even mouse search doesn’t currently exist in NVDA, so to me, this isn’t screen reading at its best at the moment.  That’s only to me, remember, just one guy who is an advanced screen reader user, and in that respect, as I’ve always said, NVDA, isn’t there yet.  I wish it would be.

 

Another example of this problem is the Izotope plug in installer.  NVDA doesn’t see the screen at all, nothing is read, so you have to OCR it.  When I install with JAWS, it sees the screen, and I can move the mouse to the Next button, but I can’t click it by tabbing nor object naving to it, because NVDA simply doesn’t see the screen, unless I OCR it.  JAWS sees it out of the box.  This is why I still maintain that video hooking is a necessary evil.

 

I know now that many programs use UIA now, so it’s less important, but the ability to manipulate the mouse via the keyboard, is still much needed when using custom apps.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 18 February 2019 17:00
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Golden Cursor question

 

In the following response, I shall give desktop layout commands.  I don't use the laptop layout and don't know those commands for what we are discussing.

 

There aren't specifically mouse movement keys such as in JAWS.  Read the review section of the manual or the relevant parts.  5.5 is a relevant section.  I'm not sure if there are any others.  You will see such commands as num[pad 9, move to next line, numpad 8, read current line, numpad 7 move to and read previous line.  These are review keys and don't affect the application, they review the screen.  I'm talking about what they do in screen review mode.  They have similar functions when in object navigation but they apply to the object that has focus.

 

To move the mouse to the review position, use the command numpad insert numpad slash.  To left click the mouse, use numpad slash. To right click, use numpad Times, which I believe is also the asterisk.  It's immediately to the right of numpad slash.  

 

If you can't find how to do something in NVDA, it is not good methodology or procedure to assume that it can't be done.  Asking here may provide information about how to do it or of an add-on that does.

 

Gene  

----- Original Message -----

From: Steve Nutt

Sent: Monday, February 18, 2019 4:47 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Golden Cursor question

 

Hello Jean,

 

So what are the mouse movement keys via the keyboard then?  I’m sorry I can’t find them.

 

Thanks.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 18 February 2019 08:47
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Golden Cursor question

 

You can move the mouse with the keyboard now.  You can't move it as precisely.  I don't have an opinion about whether the Golden Cursor features should be incorporated into the source code.  But your implication that the mouse can't be moved without the Golden Cursor is not correct.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Steve Nutt

Sent: Monday, February 18, 2019 2:27 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Golden Cursor question

 

Jean,

 

I think the whole Golden Cursor thing should be in NVDA to be honest.  The ability to move the mouse using the keyboard has been in screen readers, since the invention of Windows.

 

Supernova has it, System Access has it, JAWS has it, Window-Eyes was best at it, and so on.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 17 February 2019 20:08
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Golden Cursor question

 

The search feature should, I think, be in NVDA, not in the Golden Cursor. This is important funcionality and is too important to depend on a user downloading an add-on to have it available.

 

Gene 

----- Original Message -----

From: Steve Nutt

Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2019 1:58 PM

Subject: [nvda] Golden Cursor question

 

Hi,

 

In my efforts to find out if Golden Cursor is as good as the mouse with JAWS, I’d say not quite.  Let me explain.

 

I just downloaded it, and there seems to be no way to search for a string of text within GC and have the mouse land on that text, so you can just click it, without routing, saving positions, etc.

 

Could this possibly be added?  A Mouse Search in NVDA?  I use Search in JAWS cursor all the time, and it moves the mouse to where I want it.

 

Or am I really stupid and missing it?

 

Someone suggested that GC does more than the JAWS cursor, but I don’t really see that.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

--

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

Tel: +44(0)1438-742286

Mob: +44(0)7956-334938

Fax: +44(0)1438-759589

Email: steve@...

Web: http://www.comproom.co.uk

 


Re: Golden Cursor question

Steve Nutt
 

Hi Brian,

 

You said:-

 

I also imagine that the use of Mouse Keys with a screen reader using desktop layout would be a fraught proposition.

 

Why?  Other screen readers do it.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: 18 February 2019 14:58
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Golden Cursor question

 

On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 09:52 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:

What I didn’t know is you can move the mouse with the keyboard without GC involved.

Well, barring the use of accessibility software (and, yes, I count the built-in option of Mouse Keys), you can't.

I also imagine that the use of Mouse Keys with a screen reader using desktop layout would be a fraught proposition.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


Re: CLARITY OF TERMINOLOGY AND DOCUMENTATION

Gene
 

I don't think the statement about being a native speaker when translating to or from a language is correct either way.  It depends on how knowledgeable the person is in both languages.  It is probably necessary that the person has lived in countries where both languages are spoken if you are going to translate informal language.  In the case of a user guide such as the NVDA guide, I expect you don't need the kind of knowledge of informal English you would in other cases, so living in the country is, I suspect, not necessary.  This is not ideomatic English. 
 
Also, you don't have to be a native speaker of the languages you are either translating to or from.  You can be very fluent in a language and not be a native speaker of the language.  And there people who have the talent or ability to master languages more quickly and easily than many other people do.  You can master a language by study and by living among native speakers of a language. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2019 4:55 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] CLARITY OF TERMINOLOGY AND DOCUMENTATION

I believe this to be completely the wrong way round.

A professional translator should be a native speaker of the language they are
translating TO, and a very competent speaker of the language/s they are
translating FROM.

The reason is simple - they are creating their own work in the destination
language, and that needs to be flawless to another native speaker of that
language.  Anyone writing in a second language is going to make more mistakes
or come up with more curious constructions than a native speaker is.


Antony.

On Tuesday 19 February 2019 at 11:14:18, Brian K. Lingard wrote:

> Dear Rui & List:
> Professional translators or interpreters and revisers, editors of
> translated work, need to speak, read & write the language they are
> interpreting from, normally their "A" language, their Mother Tongue as
> well as their "B" or "C" language they are translating to.
>
> For this reason, a person translating an English user manual needs to
> speak, read & write English as their Mother tongue. They would not
> normally be Portuguese. They must recognize the idioms of the language.
>
> For example, a radio station with the slogan:
> New York Spells NEWS might translate this into {Portuguese as New York
> means NEWS, or New York is always newsworthy! As opposed to the literal
> translation, New York spells NEWS!
>
> In Spanish, it would be Nuevo York espelle Noticia! However, saying Nuevo
> York is always worthy of Noticia might get the meaning across more
> accurately.
>
> Friend of mine, a professional Interpreter translator & reviser, Engl0ish
> into French, interpreted a meeting about the switch as being about le
> Commutator, a light switch. Partway through the meeting, it dawned on him
> they were discussing a telephone switching machine, not a light switch!
> True it switches, but it connects telephone calls, does not turn the
> lights on or off! He said man, did he feel dumb@!
>
> If the meeting had been about railways, it might have talked about the
> switch, however a railway switch which lets a train go from one track to
> another, is also called Points or Track Points! If you hand a railway
> locomotive engineer a LIGHTSWITCH when he says he needs a switch, he will
> explain he needs Points to go to another track, not something to turn the
> lights on and off! Brian K. Lingard VE3YI, Ab2JI, B. A., C. T. M.
>
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf of Rui
> Fontes Sent: February 16, 2019 11:15 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] CLARITY OF TERMINOLOGY AND DOCUMENTATION
>
> Yes, if I can find a professional translator specialized in assistive
> technology the result should be good, but at least in Portugal we do not
> have that...
>
> Rui
>
> Às 15:57 de 16/02/2019, Brian Vogel escreveu:
> > Rui,
> >
> >           No criticism of you, but of the "professional" translators
> >
> > You
> > used:  Attempts to do "literal translation" are about as
> > Unprofessional as you can get.
> >
> >           The job of a professional translator, which you are showing
> >
> > Yourself to be in this context, is to bring the concept, in as much
> > Fullness as possible, across languages.  That often involved very
> > Intentional choices to dump literal, word by word or even phrase by
> > Phrase translation.  The object is to convey shared understanding, and
> > You are trying to do that admirably.
> >
> >            Then again, to give professional translators who may be
> >
> > having difficulty here some credit, they are not tech geeks, either.
> > How would someone who has no idea of what "input gestures" is supposed
> > To convey be able to accurately translate it conceptually?   In
> > Order to translate well you have to have some idea of the meaning, not
> > Just the written structure, of what it is you are translating.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Brian

--
#define SIX 1+5
#define NINE 8+1

int main() {
    printf("%d\n", SIX * NINE);
}
- thanks to ECB for bringing this to my attention

                                                   Please reply to the list;
                                                         please *don't* CC me.



Re: android studio problem with NVDA

Diego Ricardo Matos <diegoricardomatosm4@...>
 

Hello guys!
I was able to read the message screen, but the problem is that it only
shows the following error regardless of what it is:

/com.reecedunn.espeak E / eSpeakService: espeak_SetParameter: internal error.
How to make it read the same specific mistakes? Like for example, a
semicolon is missing.

2019-02-18 20:14 GMT-03:00, Jaffar Sidek <jaffar.sidek10@gmail.com>:

Hi.  Press Control+Tab until you here event log.  Tab to the "Editor"
and arrow down the list of messages.  Cheers!

On 2/18/2019 9:17 PM, Diego Ricardo Matos wrote:
Hello guys!
I'm using android studio but I'm having problems with NVDA.
It turns out that the compiler and messages are not read by NVDA, with
java access bridge enabled and working.

What can I do?
I'm running android studio 3.2, with NVDA 2018.4.1 on windows 10 64 bit.





Re: Microsoft refresh tool.

 

I did find it on the ACER site, actually. I had to narrow down a lot of parameters and compare numbers, but I did finally find the right laptop. Although, stupid me, I bought it from wallmart rather than directly from ACER. Oh well, live and learn! By the way, random aside, in my soon to be published short story in clarkesworld magazine, that link goes to the podcast, characters use NVDA and JAWS. Do any need a trademark?

Like my fiction or journalism? Donate to my Patreon!


Re: CLARITY OF TERMINOLOGY AND DOCUMENTATION

Antony Stone
 

I believe this to be completely the wrong way round.

A professional translator should be a native speaker of the language they are
translating TO, and a very competent speaker of the language/s they are
translating FROM.

The reason is simple - they are creating their own work in the destination
language, and that needs to be flawless to another native speaker of that
language. Anyone writing in a second language is going to make more mistakes
or come up with more curious constructions than a native speaker is.


Antony.

On Tuesday 19 February 2019 at 11:14:18, Brian K. Lingard wrote:

Dear Rui & List:
Professional translators or interpreters and revisers, editors of
translated work, need to speak, read & write the language they are
interpreting from, normally their "A" language, their Mother Tongue as
well as their "B" or "C" language they are translating to.

For this reason, a person translating an English user manual needs to
speak, read & write English as their Mother tongue. They would not
normally be Portuguese. They must recognize the idioms of the language.

For example, a radio station with the slogan:
New York Spells NEWS might translate this into {Portuguese as New York
means NEWS, or New York is always newsworthy! As opposed to the literal
translation, New York spells NEWS!

In Spanish, it would be Nuevo York espelle Noticia! However, saying Nuevo
York is always worthy of Noticia might get the meaning across more
accurately.

Friend of mine, a professional Interpreter translator & reviser, Engl0ish
into French, interpreted a meeting about the switch as being about le
Commutator, a light switch. Partway through the meeting, it dawned on him
they were discussing a telephone switching machine, not a light switch!
True it switches, but it connects telephone calls, does not turn the
lights on or off! He said man, did he feel dumb@!

If the meeting had been about railways, it might have talked about the
switch, however a railway switch which lets a train go from one track to
another, is also called Points or Track Points! If you hand a railway
locomotive engineer a LIGHTSWITCH when he says he needs a switch, he will
explain he needs Points to go to another track, not something to turn the
lights on and off! Brian K. Lingard VE3YI, Ab2JI, B. A., C. T. M.

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf of Rui
Fontes Sent: February 16, 2019 11:15 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] CLARITY OF TERMINOLOGY AND DOCUMENTATION

Yes, if I can find a professional translator specialized in assistive
technology the result should be good, but at least in Portugal we do not
have that...

Rui

Às 15:57 de 16/02/2019, Brian Vogel escreveu:
Rui,

No criticism of you, but of the "professional" translators

You
used: Attempts to do "literal translation" are about as
Unprofessional as you can get.

The job of a professional translator, which you are showing

Yourself to be in this context, is to bring the concept, in as much
Fullness as possible, across languages. That often involved very
Intentional choices to dump literal, word by word or even phrase by
Phrase translation. The object is to convey shared understanding, and
You are trying to do that admirably.

Then again, to give professional translators who may be

having difficulty here some credit, they are not tech geeks, either.
How would someone who has no idea of what "input gestures" is supposed
To convey be able to accurately translate it conceptually? In
Order to translate well you have to have some idea of the meaning, not
Just the written structure, of what it is you are translating.

--

Brian
--
#define SIX 1+5
#define NINE 8+1

int main() {
printf("%d\n", SIX * NINE);
}
- thanks to ECB for bringing this to my attention

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Applications Dictionary add on

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Is anyone maintaining this one. I just had to add the manifest bits manually for it to work in Alpha, but of course have no idea about whether its code is going to fall foul of future updates.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.


Re: Question on Chrome, Re: [nvda] Can we pass graphics while navigating web pages using NVDA?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes of course page designers could help a lot by not hiding links under the text of pages that when read by us do not seem to be links unless we look at them, and you cannot get to the link address if you wanted, as I often do, to put the link in a text script for humans to read for an audio publication!
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2019 1:46 PM
Subject: Re: Question on Chrome, Re: [nvda] Can we pass graphics while navigating web pages using NVDA?


On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 03:15 AM, Brian's Mail list account wrote:


What would be nice is to be able to cut and paste the uncluttered text so
one can keep it in a normal text file
You can certainly do this with the page that results from using the Chrome Reader mode. After looking at the result of Chrome's native reader mode and the Reader add-on I far prefer the result from the former to the latter, particularly if cut and paste is desired. The Reader add-on retains far more links along with other web objects like edit boxes, etc., that make no sense to me to have kept in the first place.

--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763

*A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.*

~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back


Re: CLARITY OF TERMINOLOGY AND DOCUMENTATION

Brian K. Lingard
 

Dear Rui & List:
Professional translators or interpreters and revisers, editors of translated work, need to speak, read & write the language they are interpreting from, normally their "A" language, their Mother Tongue as well as their "B" or "C" language they are translating to.

For this reason, a person translating an English user manual needs to speak, read & write English as their Mother tongue. They would not normally be Portuguese. They must recognize the idioms of the language.

For example, a radio station with the slogan:
New York Spells NEWS might translate this into {Portuguese as New York means NEWS, or New York is always newsworthy! As opposed to the literal translation, New York spells NEWS!

In Spanish, it would be Nuevo York espelle Noticia! However, saying Nuevo York is always worthy of Noticia might get the meaning across more accurately.

Friend of mine, a professional Interpreter translator & reviser, Engl0ish into French, interpreted a meeting about the switch as being about le Commutator, a light switch. Partway through the meeting, it dawned on him they were discussing a telephone switching machine, not a light switch! True it switches, but it connects telephone calls, does not turn the lights on or off! He said man, did he feel dumb@!

If the meeting had been about railways, it might have talked about the switch, however a railway switch which lets a train go from one track to another, is also called Points or Track Points! If you hand a railway locomotive engineer a LIGHTSWITCH when he says he needs a switch, he will explain he needs Points to go to another track, not something to turn the lights on and off!
Brian K. Lingard VE3YI, Ab2JI, B. A., C. T. M.

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf of Rui Fontes
Sent: February 16, 2019 11:15 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] CLARITY OF TERMINOLOGY AND DOCUMENTATION

Yes, if I can find a professional translator specialized in assistive technology the result should be good, but at least in Portugal we do not have that...

Rui


Às 15:57 de 16/02/2019, Brian Vogel escreveu:
Rui,

No criticism of you, but of the "professional" translators
You
used: Attempts to do "literal translation" are about as
Unprofessional as you can get.

The job of a professional translator, which you are showing
Yourself to be in this context, is to bring the concept, in as much
Fullness as possible, across languages. That often involved very
Intentional choices to dump literal, word by word or even phrase by
Phrase translation. The object is to convey shared understanding, and
You are trying to do that admirably.

Then again, to give professional translators who may be
having difficulty here some credit, they are not tech geeks, either.
How would someone who has no idea of what "input gestures" is supposed
To convey be able to accurately translate it conceptually? In
Order to translate well you have to have some idea of the meaning, not
Just the written structure, of what it is you are translating.

--

Brian *-*Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763

*/A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the
need for illusion is deep./*

~ Saul Bellow, /To Jerusalem and Back/


Re: two questions on Windows10: notifications and skype

Chris
 

I think in nvda settings > object presentation > report notifications

Is the setting to turn notifications on or off

 

 

 

From: Simone Dal Maso
Sent: 19 February 2019 08:33
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] two questions on Windows10: notifications and skype

 

Hello,

Does NVDA read incoming notifications on your Windows10?

On my pc it worked a while, but in the last 2 months it stopped. Perhaps

some windows update?

Same problem on skype, where the dedicated hotkeys don't work anymore.

Do you confirm this issues?

 

 

 


Re: two questions on Windows10: notifications and skype

Sylvie Duchateau
 

It happened to me for another checkbox, in the same dialog, on reporting text description. I never unchecked this box, but it was unchecked.

A mystery of NVDAs settings...

Sylvie

Le 19/02/2019 à 09:48, Simone Dal Maso a écrit :

Oh my God,
The report notification was disabled!
I have no words...
What a silly mistake... thank you very much!





Il 19/02/2019 09:40, Sylvie Duchateau ha scritto:
Hello Simone,

In NVDA menu, if you go to settings, object presentation, is report notifications and report tooltips checked?

For Skype, what does not work?

Best

Sylvie

Le 19/02/2019 à 09:33, Simone Dal Maso a écrit :

Hello,
Does NVDA read incoming notifications on your Windows10?
On my pc it worked a while, but in the last 2 months it stopped. Perhaps some windows update?
Same problem on skype, where the dedicated hotkeys don't work anymore.
Do you confirm this issues?





Re: two questions on Windows10: notifications and skype

Simone Dal Maso
 

Oh my God,
The report notification was disabled!
I have no words...
What a silly mistake... thank you very much!

Il 19/02/2019 09:40, Sylvie Duchateau ha scritto:
Hello Simone,
In NVDA menu, if you go to settings, object presentation, is report notifications and report tooltips checked?
For Skype, what does not work?
Best
Sylvie
Le 19/02/2019 à 09:33, Simone Dal Maso a écrit :

Hello,
Does NVDA read incoming notifications on your Windows10?
On my pc it worked a while, but in the last 2 months it stopped. Perhaps some windows update?
Same problem on skype, where the dedicated hotkeys don't work anymore.
Do you confirm this issues?



Re: two questions on Windows10: notifications and skype

Sylvie Duchateau
 

Hello Simone,

In NVDA menu, if you go to settings, object presentation, is report notifications and report tooltips checked?

For Skype, what does not work?

Best

Sylvie

Le 19/02/2019 à 09:33, Simone Dal Maso a écrit :

Hello,
Does NVDA read incoming notifications on your Windows10?
On my pc it worked a while, but in the last 2 months it stopped. Perhaps some windows update?
Same problem on skype, where the dedicated hotkeys don't work anymore.
Do you confirm this issues?


two questions on Windows10: notifications and skype

Simone Dal Maso
 

Hello,
Does NVDA read incoming notifications on your Windows10?
On my pc it worked a while, but in the last 2 months it stopped. Perhaps some windows update?
Same problem on skype, where the dedicated hotkeys don't work anymore.
Do you confirm this issues?