Date   

Re: Sluggish user experience on Facebook

Annette Moore
 

Because firefox tends to be sluggish anyway, and Amazon is becoming more and more cluttered. It's like that with System Access too, not just NVDA. I don't use JAWS so I can't comment there. And if NVDA were totally to blame, I would think it would be sluggish in other areas as well. Of course, my laptop is over five years old now, so that could be a contributing factor as well. Computers tend to slow down somewhat as they age. It's nothing I can't live with, though, and since I like the layout of Firefox, I just deal with the occasional sluggishness, especially when it first opens. I wish you the best in finding a solution to the sluggishness you're experiencing, whatever the cause of the issue. If it is on the part of NVDA, I'm sure it'll be addressed. Everyone out here seems to be very gracious and helpful.

Annette

On 12/28/2018 4:29 PM, Tony Malykh wrote:

Annette,
Why do you think it's Amazon or Firefox to blame for sluggishness and
not NVDA? Why do you think it's the website that decides to play nice
occasionally, and not NVDA?

--Tony


On 12/28/18, Annette Moore <angelgirl52376@gmail.com> wrote:
I use the Facebook mobile site with Firefox, and I have no problems.
amazon can be a bit sluggish at times, but I think that's just amazon or
firefox, or maybe just a combination of the two. I don't think it has
anything to do with NVDA itself because when the site decides to play
nice, NVDA works beautifully with it. there's still the issue with the
"buy now with one click button" on Kindle material, but I know how to
get around that. Getting back to Facebook, though, the main site is way
too cluttered no matter what screen reader or browser you use. I don't
like it at all, so I don't use it.

Annette

On 12/28/2018 11:43 AM, Monte Single wrote:
I do not experience sluggishness with nvda; I type at and average or
faster speed. I do not use facebook so I cannot comment on that. I use
all kinds of websites; n g os, corporate, government and private.
N v d a is not perfect, but it does 99 percent of what I need.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony
Malykh
Sent: December-28-18 11:32 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Sluggish user experience on Facebook

Hi Felix,
I'm on your side - I think sluggishness in NVDA is a problem, in fact a
big one, and I wish NVDA developers could do something about that.
Facebook is not the only web site that has these issues, I experience the
same problems on gmail and private web sites of company I work for. I have
to switch to JAWS to browse these sites every time just because all these
symptoms with NVDA are unbearable and makes these web sites completely
unusable.

I think another problem with these issues is that the majority of NVDA
users don't seem to be bothered by this issue, judging from reaction on
this list. I think that:

1. People's typing speed differs a lot. I tend to type very fast, which
probably exacerbates this issue for me. People who type slower might not
be that annoyed by this issue, as for example the focus is sucked into
edit boxes only when you're going through them quickly.
Felix, are you a quick typer as well?
2. Maybe people tend to stay away from these web sites that they cannot
figure out how to use. Since Facebook is glitching with NVDA, blind people
will have hard time to learn it and will use for example twitter instead.
It becomes a chicken and egg problem. NVDA devs won't fix an issue that
doesn't affect many users. And it won't affect many users because the
issue is there to begin with.
3. In my experience the severity of this problem depends on the browser.
Glitching in Google Chrome seems to be several times worse that in
Firefox.

Anyway, these are just some thoughts. I wish I could help convince NVDA
devs to have a closer look into this, but looking at github issues, this
problem has been known since at least 2012 so I think it's unlikely it's
going to be fixed any time soon. Unless we can find enough people bothered
by this and maybe like file a petition. If I had more time, I might have
tried to fix it myself, but unfortunatley I don't have much spare time. So
in the meantime - I'll have to switch back and forth to Jaws.

Best
Tony



On 12/28/18, Felix G. <constantlyvariable@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Enes and list,
sorry for my potentially confusing remark. I was not contrasting our
user experience with that of sighted users. Rather, I was implying
that some peculiarity of Facebook or the affected browsers might give
screen readers in general a hard time, and not just NVDA specifically.
So I did some testing, that is, I performed some comparative screen
reader theology, with the following results:
The late Window-Eyes, digital peace be upon it, occupies the slow end
of the speed scale combined with the high end of the accuracy scale.
You tend to get to wait quite some time for an answer, but when that
answer finally arrives, it is accurate to the degree of fully
supporting the weight of subsequent interactions.
JAWS seems to take quite the opposite approach, erring, when it does,
in favor of speed. There is the occasional unsolicited switch to focus
mode, as well as the occasional double-speaking of text, but the
snappy experience minimizes these frustrations.
NVDA currently takes what I call, from my perspective, the unfortunate
middle ground of this tradeoff. Applying this observation to Facebook,
it means that the experience is slow enough to feel sluggish, and just
unpredictable enough to feel nondeterministic as well. One can clearly
spot all the good intentions with which this particular road to hell
has been paved, so I wouldn't consider this proof that anything is
being consciously ignored, but the result, at least for me, combines
the worst of both worlds enough to make me switch screen readers when
using Facebook.
If, as Enes suggests, this observation applies to a broader category
of websites of which Facebook is just one prominent example, the
approach taken by NVDA in interacting with browsers deserves
reconsideration. Given the dynamic nature of todays's web, I strongly
suggest favoring speed over complete consistency. Selectively
decoupling focus from virtual cursor position, and re-coupling them on
demand, may be an effective first step in the right direction, as some
isolated speed cost when activating an element is allowable while a
permanent speed cost while navigating is clearly not.
All the best,
Felix

Am Do., 27. Dez. 2018 um 22:28 Uhr schrieb enes sarıbaş
<enes.saribas@gmail.com>:
hi,

Yes, as sighted obviously do not have this problem, or we would've
heard more about by now.

On 12/27/2018 7:49 PM, Felix G. wrote:
Hi,
so you're certain it's an NVDA issue rather than a Facebook or
browser one?
Best,
Felix

Am Do., 27. Dez. 2018 um 20:43 Uhr schrieb enes sarıbaş
<enes.saribas@gmail.com>:
hi,

This is an NVDA issue which has existed for about a few centuries,
which is also ignored by the devs. This happens not only in
facebook, but in many websites with dynamically changing content,
or with dialogues, for instance, the Oxford scholarship online
database my university subscribes to. This has to do with the way
NVDA interacts with the browser, however a better way was not
implemented.

On 12/27/2018 7:29 PM, Felix G. wrote:
Hi everyone,
is anyone else noticing that when arrowing or otherwise
navigating Facebook's standard view, the interface tends to slow
down to a crawl?
In addition, I am experiencing the virtual cursor randomly
jumping back a few lines, resulting in lines being read twice,
and random switches to focus mode.
Are there any known remedies, except of course switching to
mobile view, which is not even recommended to blind users by
Facebook itself?
All the best,
Felix







Re: Sluggish user experience on Facebook

Abbie Taylor <abbietaylor945@...>
 

Try m.facebook.com with Firefox. That works best for me.
--
Abbie Johnson Taylor, Author
http://www.abbiejohnsontaylor.com
http://abbiescorner.wordpress.com
abbietaylor945@...


Re: Sluggish user experience on Facebook

Tony Malykh
 

Annette,
Why do you think it's Amazon or Firefox to blame for sluggishness and
not NVDA? Why do you think it's the website that decides to play nice
occasionally, and not NVDA?

--Tony

On 12/28/18, Annette Moore <angelgirl52376@gmail.com> wrote:
I use the Facebook mobile site with Firefox, and I have no problems.
amazon can be a bit sluggish at times, but I think that's just amazon or
firefox, or maybe just a combination of the two. I don't think it has
anything to do with NVDA itself because when the site decides to play
nice, NVDA works beautifully with it. there's still the issue with the
"buy now with one click button" on Kindle material, but I know how to
get around that. Getting back to Facebook, though, the main site is way
too cluttered no matter what screen reader or browser you use. I don't
like it at all, so I don't use it.

Annette

On 12/28/2018 11:43 AM, Monte Single wrote:
I do not experience sluggishness with nvda; I type at and average or
faster speed. I do not use facebook so I cannot comment on that. I use
all kinds of websites; n g os, corporate, government and private.
N v d a is not perfect, but it does 99 percent of what I need.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony
Malykh
Sent: December-28-18 11:32 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Sluggish user experience on Facebook

Hi Felix,
I'm on your side - I think sluggishness in NVDA is a problem, in fact a
big one, and I wish NVDA developers could do something about that.
Facebook is not the only web site that has these issues, I experience the
same problems on gmail and private web sites of company I work for. I have
to switch to JAWS to browse these sites every time just because all these
symptoms with NVDA are unbearable and makes these web sites completely
unusable.

I think another problem with these issues is that the majority of NVDA
users don't seem to be bothered by this issue, judging from reaction on
this list. I think that:

1. People's typing speed differs a lot. I tend to type very fast, which
probably exacerbates this issue for me. People who type slower might not
be that annoyed by this issue, as for example the focus is sucked into
edit boxes only when you're going through them quickly.
Felix, are you a quick typer as well?
2. Maybe people tend to stay away from these web sites that they cannot
figure out how to use. Since Facebook is glitching with NVDA, blind people
will have hard time to learn it and will use for example twitter instead.
It becomes a chicken and egg problem. NVDA devs won't fix an issue that
doesn't affect many users. And it won't affect many users because the
issue is there to begin with.
3. In my experience the severity of this problem depends on the browser.
Glitching in Google Chrome seems to be several times worse that in
Firefox.

Anyway, these are just some thoughts. I wish I could help convince NVDA
devs to have a closer look into this, but looking at github issues, this
problem has been known since at least 2012 so I think it's unlikely it's
going to be fixed any time soon. Unless we can find enough people bothered
by this and maybe like file a petition. If I had more time, I might have
tried to fix it myself, but unfortunatley I don't have much spare time. So
in the meantime - I'll have to switch back and forth to Jaws.

Best
Tony



On 12/28/18, Felix G. <constantlyvariable@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Enes and list,
sorry for my potentially confusing remark. I was not contrasting our
user experience with that of sighted users. Rather, I was implying
that some peculiarity of Facebook or the affected browsers might give
screen readers in general a hard time, and not just NVDA specifically.
So I did some testing, that is, I performed some comparative screen
reader theology, with the following results:
The late Window-Eyes, digital peace be upon it, occupies the slow end
of the speed scale combined with the high end of the accuracy scale.
You tend to get to wait quite some time for an answer, but when that
answer finally arrives, it is accurate to the degree of fully
supporting the weight of subsequent interactions.
JAWS seems to take quite the opposite approach, erring, when it does,
in favor of speed. There is the occasional unsolicited switch to focus
mode, as well as the occasional double-speaking of text, but the
snappy experience minimizes these frustrations.
NVDA currently takes what I call, from my perspective, the unfortunate
middle ground of this tradeoff. Applying this observation to Facebook,
it means that the experience is slow enough to feel sluggish, and just
unpredictable enough to feel nondeterministic as well. One can clearly
spot all the good intentions with which this particular road to hell
has been paved, so I wouldn't consider this proof that anything is
being consciously ignored, but the result, at least for me, combines
the worst of both worlds enough to make me switch screen readers when
using Facebook.
If, as Enes suggests, this observation applies to a broader category
of websites of which Facebook is just one prominent example, the
approach taken by NVDA in interacting with browsers deserves
reconsideration. Given the dynamic nature of todays's web, I strongly
suggest favoring speed over complete consistency. Selectively
decoupling focus from virtual cursor position, and re-coupling them on
demand, may be an effective first step in the right direction, as some
isolated speed cost when activating an element is allowable while a
permanent speed cost while navigating is clearly not.
All the best,
Felix

Am Do., 27. Dez. 2018 um 22:28 Uhr schrieb enes sarıbaş
<enes.saribas@gmail.com>:
hi,

Yes, as sighted obviously do not have this problem, or we would've
heard more about by now.

On 12/27/2018 7:49 PM, Felix G. wrote:
Hi,
so you're certain it's an NVDA issue rather than a Facebook or
browser one?
Best,
Felix

Am Do., 27. Dez. 2018 um 20:43 Uhr schrieb enes sarıbaş
<enes.saribas@gmail.com>:
hi,

This is an NVDA issue which has existed for about a few centuries,
which is also ignored by the devs. This happens not only in
facebook, but in many websites with dynamically changing content,
or with dialogues, for instance, the Oxford scholarship online
database my university subscribes to. This has to do with the way
NVDA interacts with the browser, however a better way was not
implemented.

On 12/27/2018 7:29 PM, Felix G. wrote:
Hi everyone,
is anyone else noticing that when arrowing or otherwise
navigating Facebook's standard view, the interface tends to slow
down to a crawl?
In addition, I am experiencing the virtual cursor randomly
jumping back a few lines, resulting in lines being read twice,
and random switches to focus mode.
Are there any known remedies, except of course switching to
mobile view, which is not even recommended to blind users by
Facebook itself?
All the best,
Felix










Re: weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

Gene
 

If I had a laptop without a numpad, I would use a USB numpad.  I really don't like the laptop layout and since the external numpad would have an insert, that would be much more convenient than using other possible mapped keys or caps lock for most things.  I use caps lock but only for the speak to end command.  I use numpad insert for the NVDA key for all other commands that use the NVDA key.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 4:04 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

Do you think it could be the keyboard that is an issue if that is the case I wonder if it’s worth while just to prove a point trying an external one?

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: 28 December 2018 21:59
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

 

Sharp keys is an app that allows you to map a lot of keys. It is a bit daunting to set up but very doable if u just go slowly through the process. I can't remember the dev at this time but if you search for "sharpkeys" on google you should be able to find it.

On 28 Dec 2018, at 13:50, Darren Harris via Groups.Io wrote:

So how do I remap keys then? I know nothing about this side of NVDA if that’s what you are talking about?

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: 28 December 2018 21:24
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

 

Would sharp keys help remap that left shift key to somethingn else? I would not know what that could be, but aybe try that out?

On 28 Dec 2018, at 13:07, Tyler Spivey wrote:

No it's not. Some keyboards simply can't send some keys if pressed
together. Remap them in the gesture editor to something your keyboard
can send, or use the other shift key.
On 12/28/2018 1:00 PM, Gene wrote:

I see that you looked for the insert key using NVDA.  I didn't think of
that.  When you pressed left shift, did NVDA announce left shift?  If
so, that's very odd that you can't use it as intended. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Darren Harris via Groups.Io
<mailto:darren_g_harris@...>
*Sent:* Friday, December 28, 2018 2:56 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

I tried that also left shift and right shift. That’s how I know there’s
no insert key on the unit. It’s a very small device so the keyboard is
quite condensed. I was wondering if you can keymap commands with NVDA
like you can with other screen readers but I haven’t yet found a way to
do this. If there is a way then I might try that and resolve it.

 

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> *On Behalf Of *Gene
*Sent:* 28 December 2018 20:36
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

 

If you turn input help on and press each shift key, what do you hear? 
The right should be announced as right shift and the left should be
announced as left shift.  It sounds as though that computer keyboard
isn't sending the standard code and NVDA doesn't recognize it, though
the computer does.  I don't think this problem has anything to do with
the caps lock being used as the NVDA key. 

 

How do you know there is no insert key?  Laptops often don't have the
insert key in the usual place.  My impression is that the insert key is
often a small key at the top of the keyboard.  But others who know a lot
more about laptop keyboard layouts can comment much more knowledgeably
about that.  But if a sighted person didn't check, I wouldn't reach any
conclusion.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

*From:*Darren Harris via Groups.Io
<mailto:darren_g_harris@...>

*Sent:*Friday, December 28, 2018 2:24 PM

*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

*Subject:*[nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

 

Greetings all,

 

For Christmas my partner bought me a gpd win 2 which actually I quite
like. it’s a windows 10 machine.

 

I’ve put the latest NVDA on it. It was a fresh download. I’ve
encountered a weird issue and I don’t quite know what to make of it.
With the NVDA key set to caps lock as there’s no insert key on the unit,
I can only get things like the battery percentages to work by using the
right shift key with NVDA. the left shift key does work I’ve tested it.
I can do capital letters with it I can also do tab shift tab etc with it
so I know the shift key itself is working so that in itself isn’t the
issue. I’ve also tried switching from laptop to desktop layouts and
switching back again it makes no difference.

If anybody has any ideas as to what this could be then I would indeed be
most greatful.


Re: weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

Darren Harris
 

Do you think it could be the keyboard that is an issue if that is the case I wonder if it’s worth while just to prove a point trying an external one?

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: 28 December 2018 21:59
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

 

Sharp keys is an app that allows you to map a lot of keys. It is a bit daunting to set up but very doable if u just go slowly through the process. I can't remember the dev at this time but if you search for "sharpkeys" on google you should be able to find it.

On 28 Dec 2018, at 13:50, Darren Harris via Groups.Io wrote:

So how do I remap keys then? I know nothing about this side of NVDA if that’s what you are talking about?

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: 28 December 2018 21:24
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

 

Would sharp keys help remap that left shift key to somethingn else? I would not know what that could be, but aybe try that out?

On 28 Dec 2018, at 13:07, Tyler Spivey wrote:

No it's not. Some keyboards simply can't send some keys if pressed
together. Remap them in the gesture editor to something your keyboard
can send, or use the other shift key.
On 12/28/2018 1:00 PM, Gene wrote:

I see that you looked for the insert key using NVDA.  I didn't think of
that.  When you pressed left shift, did NVDA announce left shift?  If
so, that's very odd that you can't use it as intended. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Darren Harris via Groups.Io
<mailto:darren_g_harris@...>
*Sent:* Friday, December 28, 2018 2:56 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

I tried that also left shift and right shift. That’s how I know there’s
no insert key on the unit. It’s a very small device so the keyboard is
quite condensed. I was wondering if you can keymap commands with NVDA
like you can with other screen readers but I haven’t yet found a way to
do this. If there is a way then I might try that and resolve it.

 

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> *On Behalf Of *Gene
*Sent:* 28 December 2018 20:36
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

 

If you turn input help on and press each shift key, what do you hear? 
The right should be announced as right shift and the left should be
announced as left shift.  It sounds as though that computer keyboard
isn't sending the standard code and NVDA doesn't recognize it, though
the computer does.  I don't think this problem has anything to do with
the caps lock being used as the NVDA key. 

 

How do you know there is no insert key?  Laptops often don't have the
insert key in the usual place.  My impression is that the insert key is
often a small key at the top of the keyboard.  But others who know a lot
more about laptop keyboard layouts can comment much more knowledgeably
about that.  But if a sighted person didn't check, I wouldn't reach any
conclusion.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

*From:*Darren Harris via Groups.Io
<mailto:darren_g_harris@...>

*Sent:*Friday, December 28, 2018 2:24 PM

*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

*Subject:*[nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

 

Greetings all,

 

For Christmas my partner bought me a gpd win 2 which actually I quite
like. it’s a windows 10 machine.

 

I’ve put the latest NVDA on it. It was a fresh download. I’ve
encountered a weird issue and I don’t quite know what to make of it.
With the NVDA key set to caps lock as there’s no insert key on the unit,
I can only get things like the battery percentages to work by using the
right shift key with NVDA. the left shift key does work I’ve tested it.
I can do capital letters with it I can also do tab shift tab etc with it
so I know the shift key itself is working so that in itself isn’t the
issue. I’ve also tried switching from laptop to desktop layouts and
switching back again it makes no difference.

If anybody has any ideas as to what this could be then I would indeed be
most greatful.


Re: weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

Sarah k Alawami
 

Sharp keys is an app that allows you to map a lot of keys. It is a bit daunting to set up but very doable if u just go slowly through the process. I can't remember the dev at this time but if you search for "sharpkeys" on google you should be able to find it.

On 28 Dec 2018, at 13:50, Darren Harris via Groups.Io wrote:

So how do I remap keys then? I know nothing about this side of NVDA if that’s what you are talking about?

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: 28 December 2018 21:24
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

 

Would sharp keys help remap that left shift key to somethingn else? I would not know what that could be, but aybe try that out?

On 28 Dec 2018, at 13:07, Tyler Spivey wrote:

No it's not. Some keyboards simply can't send some keys if pressed
together. Remap them in the gesture editor to something your keyboard
can send, or use the other shift key.
On 12/28/2018 1:00 PM, Gene wrote:

I see that you looked for the insert key using NVDA.  I didn't think of
that.  When you pressed left shift, did NVDA announce left shift?  If
so, that's very odd that you can't use it as intended. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Darren Harris via Groups.Io
<mailto:darren_g_harris@...>
*Sent:* Friday, December 28, 2018 2:56 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

I tried that also left shift and right shift. That’s how I know there’s
no insert key on the unit. It’s a very small device so the keyboard is
quite condensed. I was wondering if you can keymap commands with NVDA
like you can with other screen readers but I haven’t yet found a way to
do this. If there is a way then I might try that and resolve it.

 

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> *On Behalf Of *Gene
*Sent:* 28 December 2018 20:36
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

 

If you turn input help on and press each shift key, what do you hear? 
The right should be announced as right shift and the left should be
announced as left shift.  It sounds as though that computer keyboard
isn't sending the standard code and NVDA doesn't recognize it, though
the computer does.  I don't think this problem has anything to do with
the caps lock being used as the NVDA key. 

 

How do you know there is no insert key?  Laptops often don't have the
insert key in the usual place.  My impression is that the insert key is
often a small key at the top of the keyboard.  But others who know a lot
more about laptop keyboard layouts can comment much more knowledgeably
about that.  But if a sighted person didn't check, I wouldn't reach any
conclusion.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

*From:*Darren Harris via Groups.Io
<mailto:darren_g_harris@...>

*Sent:*Friday, December 28, 2018 2:24 PM

*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

*Subject:*[nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

 

Greetings all,

 

For Christmas my partner bought me a gpd win 2 which actually I quite
like. it’s a windows 10 machine.

 

I’ve put the latest NVDA on it. It was a fresh download. I’ve
encountered a weird issue and I don’t quite know what to make of it.
With the NVDA key set to caps lock as there’s no insert key on the unit,
I can only get things like the battery percentages to work by using the
right shift key with NVDA. the left shift key does work I’ve tested it.
I can do capital letters with it I can also do tab shift tab etc with it
so I know the shift key itself is working so that in itself isn’t the
issue. I’ve also tried switching from laptop to desktop layouts and
switching back again it makes no difference.

If anybody has any ideas as to what this could be then I would indeed be
most greatful.


Re: weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

Darren Harris
 

So how do I remap keys then? I know nothing about this side of NVDA if that’s what you are talking about?

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: 28 December 2018 21:24
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

 

Would sharp keys help remap that left shift key to somethingn else? I would not know what that could be, but aybe try that out?

On 28 Dec 2018, at 13:07, Tyler Spivey wrote:

No it's not. Some keyboards simply can't send some keys if pressed
together. Remap them in the gesture editor to something your keyboard
can send, or use the other shift key.
On 12/28/2018 1:00 PM, Gene wrote:

I see that you looked for the insert key using NVDA.  I didn't think of
that.  When you pressed left shift, did NVDA announce left shift?  If
so, that's very odd that you can't use it as intended. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Darren Harris via Groups.Io
<mailto:darren_g_harris@...>
*Sent:* Friday, December 28, 2018 2:56 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

I tried that also left shift and right shift. That’s how I know there’s
no insert key on the unit. It’s a very small device so the keyboard is
quite condensed. I was wondering if you can keymap commands with NVDA
like you can with other screen readers but I haven’t yet found a way to
do this. If there is a way then I might try that and resolve it.

 

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> *On Behalf Of *Gene
*Sent:* 28 December 2018 20:36
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

 

If you turn input help on and press each shift key, what do you hear? 
The right should be announced as right shift and the left should be
announced as left shift.  It sounds as though that computer keyboard
isn't sending the standard code and NVDA doesn't recognize it, though
the computer does.  I don't think this problem has anything to do with
the caps lock being used as the NVDA key. 

 

How do you know there is no insert key?  Laptops often don't have the
insert key in the usual place.  My impression is that the insert key is
often a small key at the top of the keyboard.  But others who know a lot
more about laptop keyboard layouts can comment much more knowledgeably
about that.  But if a sighted person didn't check, I wouldn't reach any
conclusion.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

*From:*Darren Harris via Groups.Io
<mailto:darren_g_harris@...>

*Sent:*Friday, December 28, 2018 2:24 PM

*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

*Subject:*[nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

 

Greetings all,

 

For Christmas my partner bought me a gpd win 2 which actually I quite
like. it’s a windows 10 machine.

 

I’ve put the latest NVDA on it. It was a fresh download. I’ve
encountered a weird issue and I don’t quite know what to make of it.
With the NVDA key set to caps lock as there’s no insert key on the unit,
I can only get things like the battery percentages to work by using the
right shift key with NVDA. the left shift key does work I’ve tested it.
I can do capital letters with it I can also do tab shift tab etc with it
so I know the shift key itself is working so that in itself isn’t the
issue. I’ve also tried switching from laptop to desktop layouts and
switching back again it makes no difference.

If anybody has any ideas as to what this could be then I would indeed be
most greatful.


Re: weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

Sarah k Alawami
 

Would sharp keys help remap that left shift key to somethingn else? I would not know what that could be, but aybe try that out?

On 28 Dec 2018, at 13:07, Tyler Spivey wrote:

No it's not. Some keyboards simply can't send some keys if pressed
together. Remap them in the gesture editor to something your keyboard
can send, or use the other shift key.
On 12/28/2018 1:00 PM, Gene wrote:

I see that you looked for the insert key using NVDA.  I didn't think of
that.  When you pressed left shift, did NVDA announce left shift?  If
so, that's very odd that you can't use it as intended. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Darren Harris via Groups.Io
<mailto:darren_g_harris@...>
*Sent:* Friday, December 28, 2018 2:56 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

I tried that also left shift and right shift. That’s how I know there’s
no insert key on the unit. It’s a very small device so the keyboard is
quite condensed. I was wondering if you can keymap commands with NVDA
like you can with other screen readers but I haven’t yet found a way to
do this. If there is a way then I might try that and resolve it.

 

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> *On Behalf Of *Gene
*Sent:* 28 December 2018 20:36
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

 

If you turn input help on and press each shift key, what do you hear? 
The right should be announced as right shift and the left should be
announced as left shift.  It sounds as though that computer keyboard
isn't sending the standard code and NVDA doesn't recognize it, though
the computer does.  I don't think this problem has anything to do with
the caps lock being used as the NVDA key. 

 

How do you know there is no insert key?  Laptops often don't have the
insert key in the usual place.  My impression is that the insert key is
often a small key at the top of the keyboard.  But others who know a lot
more about laptop keyboard layouts can comment much more knowledgeably
about that.  But if a sighted person didn't check, I wouldn't reach any
conclusion.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

*From:*Darren Harris via Groups.Io
<mailto:darren_g_harris@...>

*Sent:*Friday, December 28, 2018 2:24 PM

*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

*Subject:*[nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

 

Greetings all,

 

For Christmas my partner bought me a gpd win 2 which actually I quite
like. it’s a windows 10 machine.

 

I’ve put the latest NVDA on it. It was a fresh download. I’ve
encountered a weird issue and I don’t quite know what to make of it.
With the NVDA key set to caps lock as there’s no insert key on the unit,
I can only get things like the battery percentages to work by using the
right shift key with NVDA. the left shift key does work I’ve tested it.
I can do capital letters with it I can also do tab shift tab etc with it
so I know the shift key itself is working so that in itself isn’t the
issue. I’ve also tried switching from laptop to desktop layouts and
switching back again it makes no difference.

If anybody has any ideas as to what this could be then I would indeed be
most greatful.


Re: weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

Tyler Spivey
 

No it's not. Some keyboards simply can't send some keys if pressed
together. Remap them in the gesture editor to something your keyboard
can send, or use the other shift key.

On 12/28/2018 1:00 PM, Gene wrote:
I see that you looked for the insert key using NVDA.  I didn't think of
that.  When you pressed left shift, did NVDA announce left shift?  If
so, that's very odd that you can't use it as intended. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Darren Harris via Groups.Io
<mailto:darren_g_harris=btinternet.com@groups.io>
*Sent:* Friday, December 28, 2018 2:56 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

I tried that also left shift and right shift. That’s how I know there’s
no insert key on the unit. It’s a very small device so the keyboard is
quite condensed. I was wondering if you can keymap commands with NVDA
like you can with other screen readers but I haven’t yet found a way to
do this. If there is a way then I might try that and resolve it.

 

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> *On Behalf Of *Gene
*Sent:* 28 December 2018 20:36
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

 

If you turn input help on and press each shift key, what do you hear? 
The right should be announced as right shift and the left should be
announced as left shift.  It sounds as though that computer keyboard
isn't sending the standard code and NVDA doesn't recognize it, though
the computer does.  I don't think this problem has anything to do with
the caps lock being used as the NVDA key. 

 

How do you know there is no insert key?  Laptops often don't have the
insert key in the usual place.  My impression is that the insert key is
often a small key at the top of the keyboard.  But others who know a lot
more about laptop keyboard layouts can comment much more knowledgeably
about that.  But if a sighted person didn't check, I wouldn't reach any
conclusion.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

*From:*Darren Harris via Groups.Io
<mailto:darren_g_harris=btinternet.com@groups.io>

*Sent:*Friday, December 28, 2018 2:24 PM

*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

*Subject:*[nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

 

Greetings all,

 

For Christmas my partner bought me a gpd win 2 which actually I quite
like. it’s a windows 10 machine.

 

I’ve put the latest NVDA on it. It was a fresh download. I’ve
encountered a weird issue and I don’t quite know what to make of it.
With the NVDA key set to caps lock as there’s no insert key on the unit,
I can only get things like the battery percentages to work by using the
right shift key with NVDA. the left shift key does work I’ve tested it.
I can do capital letters with it I can also do tab shift tab etc with it
so I know the shift key itself is working so that in itself isn’t the
issue. I’ve also tried switching from laptop to desktop layouts and
switching back again it makes no difference.

If anybody has any ideas as to what this could be then I would indeed be
most greatful.


Re: weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

Gene
 

I see that you looked for the insert key using NVDA.  I didn't think of that.  When you pressed left shift, did NVDA announce left shift?  If so, that's very odd that you can't use it as intended. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

I tried that also left shift and right shift. That’s how I know there’s no insert key on the unit. It’s a very small device so the keyboard is quite condensed. I was wondering if you can keymap commands with NVDA like you can with other screen readers but I haven’t yet found a way to do this. If there is a way then I might try that and resolve it.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 28 December 2018 20:36
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

 

If you turn input help on and press each shift key, what do you hear?  The right should be announced as right shift and the left should be announced as left shift.  It sounds as though that computer keyboard isn't sending the standard code and NVDA doesn't recognize it, though the computer does.  I don't think this problem has anything to do with the caps lock being used as the NVDA key. 

 

How do you know there is no insert key?  Laptops often don't have the insert key in the usual place.  My impression is that the insert key is often a small key at the top of the keyboard.  But others who know a lot more about laptop keyboard layouts can comment much more knowledgeably about that.  But if a sighted person didn't check, I wouldn't reach any conclusion.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 2:24 PM

Subject: [nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

 

Greetings all,

 

For Christmas my partner bought me a gpd win 2 which actually I quite like. it’s a windows 10 machine.

 

I’ve put the latest NVDA on it. It was a fresh download. I’ve encountered a weird issue and I don’t quite know what to make of it. With the NVDA key set to caps lock as there’s no insert key on the unit, I can only get things like the battery percentages to work by using the right shift key with NVDA. the left shift key does work I’ve tested it. I can do capital letters with it I can also do tab shift tab etc with it so I know the shift key itself is working so that in itself isn’t the issue. I’ve also tried switching from laptop to desktop layouts and switching back again it makes no difference.

If anybody has any ideas as to what this could be then I would indeed be most greatful.


Re: weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

Darren Harris
 

I tried that also left shift and right shift. That’s how I know there’s no insert key on the unit. It’s a very small device so the keyboard is quite condensed. I was wondering if you can keymap commands with NVDA like you can with other screen readers but I haven’t yet found a way to do this. If there is a way then I might try that and resolve it.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 28 December 2018 20:36
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

 

If you turn input help on and press each shift key, what do you hear?  The right should be announced as right shift and the left should be announced as left shift.  It sounds as though that computer keyboard isn't sending the standard code and NVDA doesn't recognize it, though the computer does.  I don't think this problem has anything to do with the caps lock being used as the NVDA key. 

 

How do you know there is no insert key?  Laptops often don't have the insert key in the usual place.  My impression is that the insert key is often a small key at the top of the keyboard.  But others who know a lot more about laptop keyboard layouts can comment much more knowledgeably about that.  But if a sighted person didn't check, I wouldn't reach any conclusion.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 2:24 PM

Subject: [nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

 

Greetings all,

 

For Christmas my partner bought me a gpd win 2 which actually I quite like. it’s a windows 10 machine.

 

I’ve put the latest NVDA on it. It was a fresh download. I’ve encountered a weird issue and I don’t quite know what to make of it. With the NVDA key set to caps lock as there’s no insert key on the unit, I can only get things like the battery percentages to work by using the right shift key with NVDA. the left shift key does work I’ve tested it. I can do capital letters with it I can also do tab shift tab etc with it so I know the shift key itself is working so that in itself isn’t the issue. I’ve also tried switching from laptop to desktop layouts and switching back again it makes no difference.

If anybody has any ideas as to what this could be then I would indeed be most greatful.


Re: weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

Gene
 

If you turn input help on and press each shift key, what do you hear?  The right should be announced as right shift and the left should be announced as left shift.  It sounds as though that computer keyboard isn't sending the standard code and NVDA doesn't recognize it, though the computer does.  I don't think this problem has anything to do with the caps lock being used as the NVDA key. 
 
How do you know there is no insert key?  Laptops often don't have the insert key in the usual place.  My impression is that the insert key is often a small key at the top of the keyboard.  But others who know a lot more about laptop keyboard layouts can comment much more knowledgeably about that.  But if a sighted person didn't check, I wouldn't reach any conclusion.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 2:24 PM
Subject: [nvda] weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

Greetings all,

 

For Christmas my partner bought me a gpd win 2 which actually I quite like. it’s a windows 10 machine.

 

I’ve put the latest NVDA on it. It was a fresh download. I’ve encountered a weird issue and I don’t quite know what to make of it. With the NVDA key set to caps lock as there’s no insert key on the unit, I can only get things like the battery percentages to work by using the right shift key with NVDA. the left shift key does work I’ve tested it. I can do capital letters with it I can also do tab shift tab etc with it so I know the shift key itself is working so that in itself isn’t the issue. I’ve also tried switching from laptop to desktop layouts and switching back again it makes no difference.

If anybody has any ideas as to what this could be then I would indeed be most greatful.


weird NVDA problem on my gpd win 2

Darren Harris
 

Greetings all,

 

For Christmas my partner bought me a gpd win 2 which actually I quite like. it’s a windows 10 machine.

 

I’ve put the latest NVDA on it. It was a fresh download. I’ve encountered a weird issue and I don’t quite know what to make of it. With the NVDA key set to caps lock as there’s no insert key on the unit, I can only get things like the battery percentages to work by using the right shift key with NVDA. the left shift key does work I’ve tested it. I can do capital letters with it I can also do tab shift tab etc with it so I know the shift key itself is working so that in itself isn’t the issue. I’ve also tried switching from laptop to desktop layouts and switching back again it makes no difference.

If anybody has any ideas as to what this could be then I would indeed be most greatful.


Re: NVDA going silent.

Gene
 

What you are describing regarding popups are all signs of adware.  Chrome has its own popup blocker and adware can show popups anyway.  If you install a popup blocker, adware can show popups. 
 
Firefox has menus.  If you pressed alt and no menus came up, the browser was set to full screen.  If a program has a full screen setting and its on, you can't bring up menus because the entire screen is used for the displayed content.  Sighted people wouldn't see menus either.  To put the program back to normal, press f11.  That is the standard key in Windows programs to toggle between full screen on and off.  Full screen isn't the same as maximizing a program.  You can maximize a program with no problems. 
 
As far as a bookmark bar is concerned, if you mean the one in Chrome you can get to with f6, there isn't one in Firefox.  But Firefox works very well with bookmarks.  Use control b and you will bring up a bookmarks menu very similar to that in internet Explorer.  There is also a very good search bookmarks feature in firefox.  I won't explain that in this message but I will if you want to try it. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: MAX
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.

Yes, we had a discussion about popups in Chrome and I set the option to no popups with no results.  I also installed a popup blocker but it didn’t do anything to solve the problem.  The last time I tried Firefox I couldn’t find any kind of menu navigation.  Without that I couldn’t set it as the default browser or import bookmarks.  Also I don’t think it has a favorites bar which I use all the time. 

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2018 8:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.

 

I seem to recall we may have discussed popups with Chrome before.  I think its adware.  I don't recall hearing about what you are discussing in Chrome in cases other than adware.

 

If you don't want to investigate that problem, then it would be a good good idea to start using Firefox.  If you can use Internet Explorer and if it works properly on the sites you want to use, you may want to just use it for now, but over time, Internet Explorer will work with increasingly fewer sites.

 

Gene

----- Original message -----

From: MAX

Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2018 7:56 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.

 

It happened just now.  When I pressed nvda key + N the menu came up.  I arrowed around the menu and speech came back on.  So there is another way to restore it.  The two programs I had running were outlook 2013 and internet explorer.  Chrome has become unusable because of the popups Which are greater in number every time I open it.

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2018 10:10 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.

 

We don't know if there is a problem with speech or if the program stops running.  You can't assume that just because speech stops, that the problem is with speech.  When this happens, run Narrator or another screen-reader.  Then try opening the NVDA menu.  Does the menu open?  If so, the problem has something to do with speech while NVDA is running.  It may be a synthesizer problem or it may be an NVDA problem.  If the menu doesn't open, then NVDA is no longer running which is an entirely different problem. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: MAX

Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2018 10:00 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.

 

I don't understand what you mean by sleep mode.  I turned off character speak using nvda key 2 but it didn't keep it from going into its silent mode.  It's in it right now.  I hope this message will make sense as I am not getting any beeping feedback.  Or reading of lines as I up and down arrow.


73 (Regards).

Max K 4 O D S.

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2018 8:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.

Actually if you toggle it to sleep mode and turn off typing letters its actually able to work for you if you run long passages as long as you don't hit control



On 12/26/2018 2:47 PM, MAX wrote:
> I got a wry smile out of the recent thread from people who wanted to
> keep NVDA from speaking.  It does that all the time to me although I
> don't want it too. I have found that if I am running two or more
> programs in windows
> 10 that at some random time after starting the second program that
> NVDA will go silent.  No amount of tabbing or arrowing will cure its case of
> laryngitis.   So far the only way I can restore its voice is to press
> control alt N to restart it.  Is there a quicker way to start it
> talking again?
>
>
> 73 (Regards).
>
> Max.  K 4 O DS.
>
> I've Never Lost the Wonder.
>
> Email: max@...
>
> Vacuum Tube  Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/
> Transistor site: http://www.angelfire.com/planet/funwithtransistors/
> Woodworking site:
> http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.h
> tml Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com
>
> To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to.
> Funwithtransistors+subscribe@groups.io
>
> To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to,
> funwithtubes+subscribe@groups.io
>
> To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to
> funwithwood+subscribe@groups.io
>
>
>
>
>
>




StationPlaylist and Windows 10 App Essentials 19.01 are on their way #addonrelease

 

Hi everyone,

 

First, for those celebrating it, hope your New Year’s Day preparation is going well. May 2019 be a great year for the NVDA community.

 

I’m delighted to announce the release of StationPlaylist Studio and Windows 10 App Essentials 19.01. StationPlaylist Studio add-on is used to help broadcasters using SPL suite of application with producing their shows, and Windows 10 App Essentials is a must have add-on for improved usability of Windows 10.

 

The most important thing you’ll notice with these releases is saying goodbye to standalone add-on update checks. Until Add-on Updater appeared, these two were part of a handful of add-ons that can check for updated versions of themselves. Now that Add-on Updater is stable and recommended by add-on authors, I hereby announce that, starting from this release, the ability to check for updated versions of these add-ons will be assumed by Add-on Updater, not by these add-ons. As a consequence of this, when you restart NVDA after installing these releases for the first time, you’ll get a message informing you of this change (for those using StationPlaylist add-on, the first time you start Studio after installing add-on 19.01).

 

Additional notes:

 

StationPlaylist Studio:

  • Version 19.01 isn’t the only release today – if you’re using 18.09.5-LTS (longterm channel) release, you’ll be asked to update to 18.09.6-LTS. Just like 19.01, 18.09.6-LTS will also present add-on update check warning.
  • The source code that powers standalone add-on update checks will be removed in 19.02; it’ll be kept in 18.09.x series (although to be disabled in the next LTS release) to serve as a reference for anyone wishing to learn how Add-on Updater’s update check facility came to be.
  • Version 19.01 (for LTS people, 18.09.6-LTS) is first of two mandatory updates (the next one is 19.02, and for LTS, 18.09.7 in March 2019).
  • Today’s releases require NVDA 2018.4 or later. In terms of Studio, 19.01 requires 5.11, whereas 18.09.6 will run happily on 5.10.
  • Sometime in 2019, a 19.x version will ask you to update to studio 5.20 or later. I’ll give you sixty days’ notice before making the switch.
  • For those on longterm (LTS) channel, 18.09.6 is one of the last mainstream maintenance versions where features from 19.x can be backported. After NVDA 2019.1 is released (later in 2019), 18.09.x will enter bug fix only mode.

 

Windows 10 App Essentials:

  • Version 19.01.x is the last release series to run on Windows 10 Version 1709 (Fall Creators Update/build 16299). Version 19.02 will require Version 1803 (April 2018 Update/build 17134) or later.
  • Although this release supports expanded input panel in latest Windows Insider Preview build, things can change without notice.

 

Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: Sluggish user experience on Facebook

molly the blind tech lover
 

Hi.
I just use the facebook app on my smartphone. Way easier. I too feel that the facebook website is hard to navigate on a computer. It is cluttered, like you said.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Annette Moore
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 2:28 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Sluggish user experience on Facebook

I use the Facebook mobile site with Firefox, and I have no problems.
amazon can be a bit sluggish at times, but I think that's just amazon or firefox, or maybe just a combination of the two. I don't think it has anything to do with NVDA itself because when the site decides to play nice, NVDA works beautifully with it. there's still the issue with the "buy now with one click button" on Kindle material, but I know how to get around that. Getting back to Facebook, though, the main site is way too cluttered no matter what screen reader or browser you use. I don't like it at all, so I don't use it.

Annette

On 12/28/2018 11:43 AM, Monte Single wrote:
I do not experience sluggishness with nvda; I type at and average or faster speed. I do not use facebook so I cannot comment on that. I use all kinds of websites; n g os, corporate, government and private.
N v d a is not perfect, but it does 99 percent of what I need.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Tony Malykh
Sent: December-28-18 11:32 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Sluggish user experience on Facebook

Hi Felix,
I'm on your side - I think sluggishness in NVDA is a problem, in fact a big one, and I wish NVDA developers could do something about that.
Facebook is not the only web site that has these issues, I experience the same problems on gmail and private web sites of company I work for. I have to switch to JAWS to browse these sites every time just because all these symptoms with NVDA are unbearable and makes these web sites completely unusable.

I think another problem with these issues is that the majority of NVDA users don't seem to be bothered by this issue, judging from reaction on this list. I think that:

1. People's typing speed differs a lot. I tend to type very fast, which probably exacerbates this issue for me. People who type slower might not be that annoyed by this issue, as for example the focus is sucked into edit boxes only when you're going through them quickly.
Felix, are you a quick typer as well?
2. Maybe people tend to stay away from these web sites that they cannot figure out how to use. Since Facebook is glitching with NVDA, blind people will have hard time to learn it and will use for example twitter instead. It becomes a chicken and egg problem. NVDA devs won't fix an issue that doesn't affect many users. And it won't affect many users because the issue is there to begin with.
3. In my experience the severity of this problem depends on the browser. Glitching in Google Chrome seems to be several times worse that in Firefox.

Anyway, these are just some thoughts. I wish I could help convince NVDA devs to have a closer look into this, but looking at github issues, this problem has been known since at least 2012 so I think it's unlikely it's going to be fixed any time soon. Unless we can find enough people bothered by this and maybe like file a petition. If I had more time, I might have tried to fix it myself, but unfortunatley I don't have much spare time. So in the meantime - I'll have to switch back and forth to Jaws.

Best
Tony



On 12/28/18, Felix G. <constantlyvariable@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Enes and list,
sorry for my potentially confusing remark. I was not contrasting our
user experience with that of sighted users. Rather, I was implying
that some peculiarity of Facebook or the affected browsers might give
screen readers in general a hard time, and not just NVDA specifically.
So I did some testing, that is, I performed some comparative screen
reader theology, with the following results:
The late Window-Eyes, digital peace be upon it, occupies the slow end
of the speed scale combined with the high end of the accuracy scale.
You tend to get to wait quite some time for an answer, but when that
answer finally arrives, it is accurate to the degree of fully
supporting the weight of subsequent interactions.
JAWS seems to take quite the opposite approach, erring, when it does,
in favor of speed. There is the occasional unsolicited switch to
focus mode, as well as the occasional double-speaking of text, but
the snappy experience minimizes these frustrations.
NVDA currently takes what I call, from my perspective, the
unfortunate middle ground of this tradeoff. Applying this observation
to Facebook, it means that the experience is slow enough to feel
sluggish, and just unpredictable enough to feel nondeterministic as
well. One can clearly spot all the good intentions with which this
particular road to hell has been paved, so I wouldn't consider this
proof that anything is being consciously ignored, but the result, at
least for me, combines the worst of both worlds enough to make me
switch screen readers when using Facebook.
If, as Enes suggests, this observation applies to a broader category
of websites of which Facebook is just one prominent example, the
approach taken by NVDA in interacting with browsers deserves
reconsideration. Given the dynamic nature of todays's web, I strongly
suggest favoring speed over complete consistency. Selectively
decoupling focus from virtual cursor position, and re-coupling them
on demand, may be an effective first step in the right direction, as
some isolated speed cost when activating an element is allowable
while a permanent speed cost while navigating is clearly not.
All the best,
Felix

Am Do., 27. Dez. 2018 um 22:28 Uhr schrieb enes sarıbaş
<enes.saribas@gmail.com>:
hi,

Yes, as sighted obviously do not have this problem, or we would've
heard more about by now.

On 12/27/2018 7:49 PM, Felix G. wrote:
Hi,
so you're certain it's an NVDA issue rather than a Facebook or
browser one?
Best,
Felix

Am Do., 27. Dez. 2018 um 20:43 Uhr schrieb enes sarıbaş
<enes.saribas@gmail.com>:
hi,

This is an NVDA issue which has existed for about a few centuries,
which is also ignored by the devs. This happens not only in
facebook, but in many websites with dynamically changing content,
or with dialogues, for instance, the Oxford scholarship online
database my university subscribes to. This has to do with the way
NVDA interacts with the browser, however a better way was not
implemented.

On 12/27/2018 7:29 PM, Felix G. wrote:
Hi everyone,
is anyone else noticing that when arrowing or otherwise
navigating Facebook's standard view, the interface tends to slow
down to a crawl?
In addition, I am experiencing the virtual cursor randomly
jumping back a few lines, resulting in lines being read twice,
and random switches to focus mode.
Are there any known remedies, except of course switching to
mobile view, which is not even recommended to blind users by
Facebook itself?
All the best,
Felix








Re: Sluggish user experience on Facebook

Annette Moore
 

I use the Facebook mobile site with Firefox, and I have no problems. amazon can be a bit sluggish at times, but I think that's just amazon or firefox, or maybe just a combination of the two. I don't think it has anything to do with NVDA itself because when the site decides to play nice, NVDA works beautifully with it. there's still the issue with the "buy now with one click button" on Kindle material, but I know how to get around that. Getting back to Facebook, though, the main site is way too cluttered no matter what screen reader or browser you use. I don't like it at all, so I don't use it.

Annette

On 12/28/2018 11:43 AM, Monte Single wrote:
I do not experience sluggishness with nvda; I type at and average or faster speed. I do not use facebook so I cannot comment on that. I use all kinds of websites; n g os, corporate, government and private.
N v d a is not perfect, but it does 99 percent of what I need.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Malykh
Sent: December-28-18 11:32 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Sluggish user experience on Facebook

Hi Felix,
I'm on your side - I think sluggishness in NVDA is a problem, in fact a big one, and I wish NVDA developers could do something about that.
Facebook is not the only web site that has these issues, I experience the same problems on gmail and private web sites of company I work for. I have to switch to JAWS to browse these sites every time just because all these symptoms with NVDA are unbearable and makes these web sites completely unusable.

I think another problem with these issues is that the majority of NVDA users don't seem to be bothered by this issue, judging from reaction on this list. I think that:

1. People's typing speed differs a lot. I tend to type very fast, which probably exacerbates this issue for me. People who type slower might not be that annoyed by this issue, as for example the focus is sucked into edit boxes only when you're going through them quickly.
Felix, are you a quick typer as well?
2. Maybe people tend to stay away from these web sites that they cannot figure out how to use. Since Facebook is glitching with NVDA, blind people will have hard time to learn it and will use for example twitter instead. It becomes a chicken and egg problem. NVDA devs won't fix an issue that doesn't affect many users. And it won't affect many users because the issue is there to begin with.
3. In my experience the severity of this problem depends on the browser. Glitching in Google Chrome seems to be several times worse that in Firefox.

Anyway, these are just some thoughts. I wish I could help convince NVDA devs to have a closer look into this, but looking at github issues, this problem has been known since at least 2012 so I think it's unlikely it's going to be fixed any time soon. Unless we can find enough people bothered by this and maybe like file a petition. If I had more time, I might have tried to fix it myself, but unfortunatley I don't have much spare time. So in the meantime - I'll have to switch back and forth to Jaws.

Best
Tony



On 12/28/18, Felix G. <constantlyvariable@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Enes and list,
sorry for my potentially confusing remark. I was not contrasting our
user experience with that of sighted users. Rather, I was implying
that some peculiarity of Facebook or the affected browsers might give
screen readers in general a hard time, and not just NVDA specifically.
So I did some testing, that is, I performed some comparative screen
reader theology, with the following results:
The late Window-Eyes, digital peace be upon it, occupies the slow end
of the speed scale combined with the high end of the accuracy scale.
You tend to get to wait quite some time for an answer, but when that
answer finally arrives, it is accurate to the degree of fully
supporting the weight of subsequent interactions.
JAWS seems to take quite the opposite approach, erring, when it does,
in favor of speed. There is the occasional unsolicited switch to focus
mode, as well as the occasional double-speaking of text, but the
snappy experience minimizes these frustrations.
NVDA currently takes what I call, from my perspective, the unfortunate
middle ground of this tradeoff. Applying this observation to Facebook,
it means that the experience is slow enough to feel sluggish, and just
unpredictable enough to feel nondeterministic as well. One can clearly
spot all the good intentions with which this particular road to hell
has been paved, so I wouldn't consider this proof that anything is
being consciously ignored, but the result, at least for me, combines
the worst of both worlds enough to make me switch screen readers when
using Facebook.
If, as Enes suggests, this observation applies to a broader category
of websites of which Facebook is just one prominent example, the
approach taken by NVDA in interacting with browsers deserves
reconsideration. Given the dynamic nature of todays's web, I strongly
suggest favoring speed over complete consistency. Selectively
decoupling focus from virtual cursor position, and re-coupling them on
demand, may be an effective first step in the right direction, as some
isolated speed cost when activating an element is allowable while a
permanent speed cost while navigating is clearly not.
All the best,
Felix

Am Do., 27. Dez. 2018 um 22:28 Uhr schrieb enes sarıbaş
<enes.saribas@gmail.com>:
hi,

Yes, as sighted obviously do not have this problem, or we would've
heard more about by now.

On 12/27/2018 7:49 PM, Felix G. wrote:
Hi,
so you're certain it's an NVDA issue rather than a Facebook or
browser one?
Best,
Felix

Am Do., 27. Dez. 2018 um 20:43 Uhr schrieb enes sarıbaş
<enes.saribas@gmail.com>:
hi,

This is an NVDA issue which has existed for about a few centuries,
which is also ignored by the devs. This happens not only in
facebook, but in many websites with dynamically changing content,
or with dialogues, for instance, the Oxford scholarship online
database my university subscribes to. This has to do with the way
NVDA interacts with the browser, however a better way was not
implemented.

On 12/27/2018 7:29 PM, Felix G. wrote:
Hi everyone,
is anyone else noticing that when arrowing or otherwise
navigating Facebook's standard view, the interface tends to slow
down to a crawl?
In addition, I am experiencing the virtual cursor randomly
jumping back a few lines, resulting in lines being read twice,
and random switches to focus mode.
Are there any known remedies, except of course switching to
mobile view, which is not even recommended to blind users by
Facebook itself?
All the best,
Felix







Re: Sluggish user experience on Facebook

Felix G.
 

Hi,
@Tony you are correct, I do consider myself a quick typist.
@Monte I detect a tendency here to rush to NVDA's defense. Don't
worry, I'm not attacking, merely criticizing, hopefully in a
constructive way, which necessarily involves describing problems. I am
grateful that NVDA does so many things right. One of the least
favorable properties of praise, however, is that it sometimes masks
concern by making it appear less relevant.
All the best,
Felix

Am Fr., 28. Dez. 2018 um 18:43 Uhr schrieb Monte Single <mrsingle@sasktel.net>:


I do not experience sluggishness with nvda; I type at and average or faster speed. I do not use facebook so I cannot comment on that. I use all kinds of websites; n g os, corporate, government and private.
N v d a is not perfect, but it does 99 percent of what I need.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Malykh
Sent: December-28-18 11:32 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Sluggish user experience on Facebook

Hi Felix,
I'm on your side - I think sluggishness in NVDA is a problem, in fact a big one, and I wish NVDA developers could do something about that.
Facebook is not the only web site that has these issues, I experience the same problems on gmail and private web sites of company I work for. I have to switch to JAWS to browse these sites every time just because all these symptoms with NVDA are unbearable and makes these web sites completely unusable.

I think another problem with these issues is that the majority of NVDA users don't seem to be bothered by this issue, judging from reaction on this list. I think that:

1. People's typing speed differs a lot. I tend to type very fast, which probably exacerbates this issue for me. People who type slower might not be that annoyed by this issue, as for example the focus is sucked into edit boxes only when you're going through them quickly.
Felix, are you a quick typer as well?
2. Maybe people tend to stay away from these web sites that they cannot figure out how to use. Since Facebook is glitching with NVDA, blind people will have hard time to learn it and will use for example twitter instead. It becomes a chicken and egg problem. NVDA devs won't fix an issue that doesn't affect many users. And it won't affect many users because the issue is there to begin with.
3. In my experience the severity of this problem depends on the browser. Glitching in Google Chrome seems to be several times worse that in Firefox.

Anyway, these are just some thoughts. I wish I could help convince NVDA devs to have a closer look into this, but looking at github issues, this problem has been known since at least 2012 so I think it's unlikely it's going to be fixed any time soon. Unless we can find enough people bothered by this and maybe like file a petition. If I had more time, I might have tried to fix it myself, but unfortunatley I don't have much spare time. So in the meantime - I'll have to switch back and forth to Jaws.

Best
Tony



On 12/28/18, Felix G. <constantlyvariable@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Enes and list,
sorry for my potentially confusing remark. I was not contrasting our
user experience with that of sighted users. Rather, I was implying
that some peculiarity of Facebook or the affected browsers might give
screen readers in general a hard time, and not just NVDA specifically.
So I did some testing, that is, I performed some comparative screen
reader theology, with the following results:
The late Window-Eyes, digital peace be upon it, occupies the slow end
of the speed scale combined with the high end of the accuracy scale.
You tend to get to wait quite some time for an answer, but when that
answer finally arrives, it is accurate to the degree of fully
supporting the weight of subsequent interactions.
JAWS seems to take quite the opposite approach, erring, when it does,
in favor of speed. There is the occasional unsolicited switch to focus
mode, as well as the occasional double-speaking of text, but the
snappy experience minimizes these frustrations.
NVDA currently takes what I call, from my perspective, the unfortunate
middle ground of this tradeoff. Applying this observation to Facebook,
it means that the experience is slow enough to feel sluggish, and just
unpredictable enough to feel nondeterministic as well. One can clearly
spot all the good intentions with which this particular road to hell
has been paved, so I wouldn't consider this proof that anything is
being consciously ignored, but the result, at least for me, combines
the worst of both worlds enough to make me switch screen readers when
using Facebook.
If, as Enes suggests, this observation applies to a broader category
of websites of which Facebook is just one prominent example, the
approach taken by NVDA in interacting with browsers deserves
reconsideration. Given the dynamic nature of todays's web, I strongly
suggest favoring speed over complete consistency. Selectively
decoupling focus from virtual cursor position, and re-coupling them on
demand, may be an effective first step in the right direction, as some
isolated speed cost when activating an element is allowable while a
permanent speed cost while navigating is clearly not.
All the best,
Felix

Am Do., 27. Dez. 2018 um 22:28 Uhr schrieb enes sarıbaş
<enes.saribas@gmail.com>:

hi,

Yes, as sighted obviously do not have this problem, or we would've
heard more about by now.

On 12/27/2018 7:49 PM, Felix G. wrote:
Hi,
so you're certain it's an NVDA issue rather than a Facebook or
browser one?
Best,
Felix

Am Do., 27. Dez. 2018 um 20:43 Uhr schrieb enes sarıbaş
<enes.saribas@gmail.com>:
hi,

This is an NVDA issue which has existed for about a few centuries,
which is also ignored by the devs. This happens not only in
facebook, but in many websites with dynamically changing content,
or with dialogues, for instance, the Oxford scholarship online
database my university subscribes to. This has to do with the way
NVDA interacts with the browser, however a better way was not
implemented.

On 12/27/2018 7:29 PM, Felix G. wrote:
Hi everyone,
is anyone else noticing that when arrowing or otherwise
navigating Facebook's standard view, the interface tends to slow
down to a crawl?
In addition, I am experiencing the virtual cursor randomly
jumping back a few lines, resulting in lines being read twice,
and random switches to focus mode.
Are there any known remedies, except of course switching to
mobile view, which is not even recommended to blind users by
Facebook itself?
All the best,
Felix











Re: NVDA going silent.

Brice Mijares
 

Max, have you ever took a look of the following tutorial
By David Moore
This tutorial will be done with the latest update of Chrome.
I will also use JAWS 18 and NVDA 2017.2for this tutorial, because they both work the same in Chrome.
Finally, I will use Windows 10 Creators Update latest public build.
I will assume that you have downloaded and installed Chrome.
There should be a shortcut on your desktop.

Section One:
Launching Chrome:
One way to Launch Chrome, is to press the Windows key or CTRL+Escape and type Chrome in the search edit field, and press enter when you hear JAWS say Chrome.
However, since you have already downloaded Chrome, You will have a shortcut icon on your desktop.
So next, find the shortcut for Chrome on your desktop, and press enter to open Chrome.
The short cut will actually say Google Chrome, so press G to find the Google Chrome icon on your desktop.
The first very important step, is to press Windows+up arrow to maximise the window. Chrome often opens with the window not maximise, and you will get undesirable results.

Section Two:
Bringing up a web site.
Press CTRL+L or Alt+D
and type the following:
www.freedomscientific.com
The Freedom Scientific web site comes up very quickly.
All navigation commands like: H for heading, E for edit field, C for combo box, and so on all work just the same in Chrome.

Section Three:
The Virticle Chrome menu:
I will press the Alt key.
The Chrome menu is open.
This is a very large virticle menu that you just keep pressing up and down arrow through.
I will press insert+up arrow to hear the first option in this menu.
New Tab, CTRL+T.
You can press that command right from the web site you are on.
New Window, CTRL+N
You can press these commands right from your web page, instead of coming here.
New incognito Window.
History sub menu.
I will press right arrow here to see what is in this sub menu!
History, CTRL+H
So, there is a key command for reading your history.
You can read a few sites you were on right here.
I will press left arrow to close this history sub menu.
Downloads, CTRL+J
There is the command for opening your downloads you have downloaded with Chrome.
Next, the important Bookmarks sub menu.
I will press right arrow, to open this.
I hear, bookmark this page, CTRL+D
That command will bookmark the page you are reading.
Next down arrow, says show bookmarks bar, CTRL+Shift+B
That command, will show your bookmarks on your Chrome browser for all to see. I do not want that.
Here is the important one.
manage bookmarks
The command is, CTRL+Shift+O
In here, you can organize your bookmarks into folders, see the bookmarks you have imported from different browsers, and very importantly, you can download, to your computer, an HTML file of all of your bookmarks in Chrome.
On your computer, you can press enter on this file, after it downloads, and a page will show up in Chrome with a list of all bookmarks you have saved in Chrome. This is an awesome way to download all of your bookmarks right to your computer, so you can back them up.
That is all for manage bookmarks.
Next, I hear import bookmarks and settings.
press enter on this, and you can import all bookmarks and settings from IE, and Firefox, right into Google Chrome, and they will be in their corresponding folders.
Now, I hear all of my saved bookmarks as I continue to arrow down.
Very important!
Sometimes, when I open that bookmarks sub menu, I do not land on the choices I mension here, but instead, I start hearing my saved bookmarks. If this happens, I press up arrow a few times, and it gets me to these choices.
Keep in mind, that many of these choices, like bookmark manager, have key commands, so you do not have to come to this bookmarks sub menu at all. You only need to come here most of the time, to arrow through your saved bookmarks, and enter on the desired one.
To save a web site as a bookmark,
Just press CTRL+D and press enter, and your bookmark is saved.
I will now press left arrow, to close the Bookmarks sub menu!
I will continue to down arrow through this virticle Chrome menu that we entered by just pressing alt.
The next few are very self explanatory.
The next one I will mension, is the more tools submenu.
I will press right arrow on this.
I hear Save Page as, and the command, CTRL+S.
Next, Save to desktop.
This allows you to save the favorite of the page right to your desktop. This is how you do this in Chrome, instead of doing this in the file menu in IE.
It is hidden under this more tools submenu.
Clear Browsing data, and there is the key command, CTRL+Shift+Delete key.
Extentions, In here, you can add extentions, delete extentions and so on.
These are the same as add ons, in IE.
I will press left arrow, to close the More Tools sub menu, and we are back to the virticle Chrome menu.
The last two that I will mention, are settings, and the help sub menu.
If you press the left arrow on the help sub menu, you can open the help system, just like in other programs, so that is all I will say about help.
Now, we will press enter on settings, and a web like page will open where the virtual cursor will turn on with JAWS, and NVDA will be in Brows mode.

Section Four:
Adjusting Settings and Advanced settings:
Now that this web page is open, I will just down arrow down the page and we will deal with each setting.
Important:
I have already signed into Chrome.
So now, arrow down until you hear sign into Chrome and press enter.
You just enter your email address and password, I think it has to be the same email address and password that you used to set up your Google account.
I am not sure about this.
You do not need to sign into Chrome, if you do, you can sync all of your activity between all devices that you have Chrome on. That is the only advantage of signing in.
I will continue with what I hear after you have signed in.
If you do not sign in, press H until you hear Appearance.
Each group of settings is a heading that you can get to by pressing H. This makes it very easy, because you just press H until you hear the group of settings you want to work with.
Now, because I have signed in, this is what I hear before getting to appearance.
The first thing you hear:
Settings.
That is the very top of the web page.
Down arrow, and you hear:
Main Menu Button.
That will just take you back to the virticle menu we were in.
If you down arrow again, you will just hear blank.
Down arrow, again, and you hear:
Settings again, but now, this is a heading. You can get here just by pressing H at the top of the page.
If you down arrow, you hear:
Search Settings.
This is where you can type in a setting that you want to change.
Down arrow again, and there is the edit field where you type in the setting you want to work with.
Down arrow again, and you hear another heading saying people.
Down arrow again, and I hear David Clickable.
This is because I have already signed into Chrome.
Down arrow again, and I hear my Gmail email address.
Again, this is because I have already signed into Chrome to sync my settings and all of that.
Down arrow again, and I hear:
Edit person.
This is where I could change my name.
Down arrow again, and I hear:
Sign Out.
This is because I have already signed in to Chrome.
Down arrow again, and I hear:
Sync.
Down arrow again, and I hear:
On, Sync everything.
This is a combo box, where you can choose what to sinc; I chose everything in this combo box.
Again, all of this is because I have signed into Chrome already.
Down arrow again, and you hear:
Sync button.
Down arrow again, and you hear:
Manage other people clickable.
Don't worry about the clickables. There is a clickable for many things, but then there is the button you enter on right after that.
Down arrow again, and you hear:
Manage other people button.
This is what you would press enter on to set up another user.
Down arrow again, and you hear:
Import bookmarks and settings Clickable:
Down arrow again, and you actually hear
Import bookmarks and settings button.
Here, you press enter and import all of your bookmarks and settings from other Browsers like IE.
This is another way of doing this, because remember,
We had a choice of manage bookmarks in the book marks sub menu in the virticle menu.
There is more than one place to do things in Chrome.
Now, we have a series of headings, that you can just press H for heading, to get to.
Now, we have gotten to the appearance heading. Down arrow and you hear:
themes, which I did nothing with.
Next, you can open the Chrome web store. You can get hundreds of extentions, and more.
Then, you hear Themes button.
Do nothing with this.
Next, you hear:
Show home clickable.
Just skip that.
There are many buttons that say clickable, and then there is a button that you actually press enter on to work with it.
Just work with the buttons, and skip over these vclickables.
Down arrow, and you have an edit box where you can put in your home page you want to get to by pressing Alt+Home.
Next, there is the home button toggle.
Press the spacebar to turn this on or off. If it is on, you can have the home button show at the top of the Chrome Window.
I have it checked.
Now, there are two radio buttons, and I chose the one to enter with a custom web address.
Search Heading:
We are at another heading, where you can set your search Engine.
There is a combo box below, and I set it to Chrome, because I like to have my searches from the address bar done with Crome instead of Bing.
Next heading:
Default Browser.
Here, you can choose weather you want Chrome to be your default browser or not.
Just leave this alone if you do not want Chrome to be your default browser.
Next Important heading:
On Start up.
Here is where you put in your URL that you want to show as soon as you start Chrome.
There are three radio buttons to pick from, but I chose to open with a specific page or pages, which is the third radio button.
Under this, you can type in the URL of the web site that you want to open when you start Chrome.
Under this, there is a link where you can add more pages you want to show when Chrome starts up.
Now, we are up to the search engin heading.
This is a heading.
There are headings on this settings page.
I chose to use Google search engin in the address bar. This is a combo box.
The next heading, is on start up.
Finally, here is where you set up your home page.
There are three radio buttons here.
I chose the third one, to open a selected page or selected pages.
Next, I was able to enter:
www.Google.Com.
That is my home page that will open each time I start Chrome.
Next important group of settings, the advanced settings.
Now, you have to press enter on the advanced settings button before more headings of settings will show.
The Advanced settings are collapsed, so you have to press enter to show more headings of settings.
Now that these advanced settings are open, we get to the next heading of settings.
There is much more we can customize under the advanced settings.
Privacy and security heading:
Down arrow from here, and you hear:
Use a web service to resolve navigation errors.
You have a clickable, and a toggle.
Press spacebar to toggle this on or off.
Again, ignore the clickables.
Now you have:
Use a prodiction service to enable you in searches.
I left this unchecked.
Next, you have a setting to speed up the loading of web pages:
I checked this with spacebar.
The next three settings I just left alone.
I checked the one that says:
Use a web service to help with spelling.
I leave manage certificates alone.
Next, you have content settings, but this is not a new heading.
We are still working with the same heading.
The only thing of interest here, is the clear history button.
This was available in the virtical menu, so don't worry about this.
Now, we get to the next heading of settings.
Passwords and forms:
Under this heading, just make sure that you check to be able to have Chrome save passwords.
Languages Heading:
I did nothing with this.
Downloads heading:
This is where you choose where you want your downloads to be saved on your computer.
Printing heading:
I did nothing with this.
Accessibility heading:
I did nothing with this.
Now, we have the System heading:
Down arrow, and you hear:
Continue running background apps, when Google Chrome is Closed.
I have this unchecked.
Next,
Use hard ware excelloration when Available.
I have this checked.
Next, you hear:
Open proxy settings button.
I left this alone.
Last Heading LOL!
Reset.
Here, you can reset all settings back to their origional.
We are done with Settings.
Now, just press CTRL+F4 to get back to the Freedom Scientific Web site.
This settings web page, opens in another tab.
That is it for settings.
Notice, we made a lot of changes under the advanced settings. You cannot see these, unless you press enter to expand these.
Now, press the Alt key again. Up arrow once to get to the end of the menu where we were with the settings.
You see exit, up arrow and you see the help sub menu, right under the settings choice.
I press right arrow on this help sub menu, and you can enter on the help center to get a lot of help using Chrome.
To open a web site, just press CTRL+L or Alt+D and type the URL.
Chrome for me, is so much quicker with web sites that involve streamming TV and Watching movies, and so on.
For me, Chrome opens large news sites very quickly compared to IE.
Lastly, All JAWS and NVDA navigation key commands work in Chrome. For example, you can press F7 to open a list of links with JAWS, and the elements list with NVDA. All of that is the exact same.
This is the end of the tutorial.

On 12/28/2018 9:44 AM, MAX wrote:
Yes, we had a discussion about popups in Chrome and I set the option to no popups with no results.  I also installed a popup blocker but it didn’t do anything to solve the problem.  The last time I tried Firefox I couldn’t find any kind of menu navigation.  Without that I couldn’t set it as the default browser or import bookmarks.  Also I don’t think it has a favorites bar which I use all the time.
73 (Regards).
Max K 4 O D S.
I've Never Lost the Wonder.
Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/
*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of *Gene
*Sent:* Thursday, December 27, 2018 8:12 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.
I seem to recall we may have discussed popups with Chrome before.  I think its adware.  I don't recall hearing about what you are discussing in Chrome in cases other than adware.
If you don't want to investigate that problem, then it would be a good good idea to start using Firefox.  If you can use Internet Explorer and if it works properly on the sites you want to use, you may want to just use it for now, but over time, Internet Explorer will work with increasingly fewer sites.
Gene
----- Original message -----
*From:*MAX <mailto:max@maxsmusicplace.com>
*Sent:*Thursday, December 27, 2018 7:56 PM
*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:*Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.
It happened just now.  When I pressed nvda key + N the menu came up.  I arrowed around the menu and speech came back on.  So there is another way to restore it.  The two programs I had running were outlook 2013 and internet explorer.  Chrome has become unusable because of the popups Which are greater in number every time I open it.
73 (Regards).
Max K 4 O D S.
I've Never Lost the Wonder.
Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/
*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of *Gene
*Sent:* Wednesday, December 26, 2018 10:10 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.
We don't know if there is a problem with speech or if the program stops running.  You can't assume that just because speech stops, that the problem is with speech.  When this happens, run Narrator or another screen-reader.  Then try opening the NVDA menu.  Does the menu open?  If so, the problem has something to do with speech while NVDA is running. It may be a synthesizer problem or it may be an NVDA problem.  If the menu doesn't open, then NVDA is no longer running which is an entirely different problem.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:*MAX <mailto:max@maxsmusicplace.com>
*Sent:*Wednesday, December 26, 2018 10:00 AM
*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:*Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.
I don't understand what you mean by sleep mode.  I turned off character speak using nvda key 2 but it didn't keep it from going into its silent mode.  It's in it right now.  I hope this message will make sense as I am not getting any beeping feedback.  Or reading of lines as I up and down arrow.
73 (Regards).
Max K 4 O D S.
I've Never Lost the Wonder.
Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2018 8:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.
Actually if you toggle it to sleep mode and turn off typing letters its actually able to work for you if you run long passages as long as you don't hit control
On 12/26/2018 2:47 PM, MAX wrote:
> I got a wry smile out of the recent thread from people who wanted to
> keep NVDA from speaking.  It does that all the time to me although I
> don't want it too. I have found that if I am running two or more
> programs in windows
> 10 that at some random time after starting the second program that
> NVDA will go silent.  No amount of tabbing or arrowing will cure its
case of
> laryngitis.   So far the only way I can restore its voice is to press
> control alt N to restart it.  Is there a quicker way to start it
> talking again?
>
>
> 73 (Regards).
>
> Max.  K 4 O DS.
>
> I've Never Lost the Wonder.
>
> Email: max@maxsmusicplace.com <mailto:max@maxsmusicplace.com>
>
> Vacuum Tube  Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/
> Transistor site: http://www.angelfire.com/planet/funwithtransistors/
> Woodworking site:
> http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.h
> tml Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com
>
> To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to.
> Funwithtransistors+subscribe@groups.io
<mailto:Funwithtransistors+subscribe@groups.io>
>
> To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to,
> funwithtubes+subscribe@groups.io
<mailto:funwithtubes+subscribe@groups.io>
>
> To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to
> funwithwood+subscribe@groups.io <mailto:funwithwood+subscribe@groups.io>
>
>
>
>
>
>


Re: NVDA going silent.

Sarah k Alawami
 

Looks like malware on your system. Have you done any scanns with any apps you have to detect this?

Take care

On 28 Dec 2018, at 10:08, MAX wrote:

Popups are set to block.

 

Each popup begins with message from google chrome.

 

Some examples I can remember are,

 

1.        do this before going to bed and burn fat overnight

2.       Get whiter teeth.

3.       New rule in somewhere south Carolina  has drivers upset.

 

Each one was repeated several times.

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Goldfield
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2018 10:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.

 

In Chrome, there is a setting to block pop-ups which should be on by default. It might be helpful to access your Chrome settings just to ensure that the setting is set to blocking popups.

 

1. When in Chrome, press alt-F for the Chrome menu.

2. Press S for Settings.

3. Activate the Advanced button.

4. Activate the Content Settings button.

5. Look for the Popup button or you could press insert-ctrl-F to bring up the NVDA find dialog and type the word "pop" without the quotes. Make sure that it is set to "blocked."

If popups still occur could you tell us a little more about the type of pages which are appearing? Does this behavior happen when you're viewing specific sites?

If the problem occurs more often than not I do think that it would be very good to perform a scan of your system to see if any malware has been detected. Which antivirus or antimalware programs do you use? For a second opinion I'd recommend installing the free version of MalwareBytes to see if it detects anything.

 

 

David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist WWW.David-Goldfield.Com

On 12/27/2018 9:11 PM, Gene wrote:

I seem to recall we may have discussed popups with Chrome before.  I think its adware.  I don't recall hearing about what you are discussing in Chrome in cases other than adware.

 

If you don't want to investigate that problem, then it would be a good good idea to start using Firefox.  If you can use Internet Explorer and if it works properly on the sites you want to use, you may want to just use it for now, but over time, Internet Explorer will work with increasingly fewer sites.

 

Gene

----- Original message -----

From: MAX

Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2018 7:56 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.

 

It happened just now.  When I pressed nvda key + N the menu came up.  I arrowed around the menu and speech came back on.  So there is another way to restore it.  The two programs I had running were outlook 2013 and internet explorer.  Chrome has become unusable because of the popups Which are greater in number every time I open it.

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2018 10:10 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.

 

We don't know if there is a problem with speech or if the program stops running.  You can't assume that just because speech stops, that the problem is with speech.  When this happens, run Narrator or another screen-reader.  Then try opening the NVDA menu.  Does the menu open?  If so, the problem has something to do with speech while NVDA is running.  It may be a synthesizer problem or it may be an NVDA problem.  If the menu doesn't open, then NVDA is no longer running which is an entirely different problem. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: MAX

Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2018 10:00 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.

 

I don't understand what you mean by sleep mode.  I turned off character speak using nvda key 2 but it didn't keep it from going into its silent mode.  It's in it right now.  I hope this message will make sense as I am not getting any beeping feedback.  Or reading of lines as I up and down arrow.


73 (Regards).

Max K 4 O D S.

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2018 8:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA going silent.

Actually if you toggle it to sleep mode and turn off typing letters its actually able to work for you if you run long passages as long as you don't hit control



On 12/26/2018 2:47 PM, MAX wrote:
> I got a wry smile out of the recent thread from people who wanted to
> keep NVDA from speaking.  It does that all the time to me although I
> don't want it too. I have found that if I am running two or more
> programs in windows
> 10 that at some random time after starting the second program that
> NVDA will go silent.  No amount of tabbing or arrowing will cure its case of
> laryngitis.   So far the only way I can restore its voice is to press
> control alt N to restart it.  Is there a quicker way to start it
> talking again?
>
>
> 73 (Regards).
>
> Max.  K 4 O DS.
>
> I've Never Lost the Wonder.
>
> Email: max@...
>
> Vacuum Tube  Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/
> Transistor site: http://www.angelfire.com/planet/funwithtransistors/
> Woodworking site:
> http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.h
> tml Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com
>
> To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to.
> Funwithtransistors+subscribe@groups.io
>
> To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to,
> funwithtubes+subscribe@groups.io
>
> To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to
> funwithwood+subscribe@groups.io
>
>
>
>
>
>