Date   

Re: Article: Microsoft will replace edge with chrome-basedbrowser for windows 10

David Moore
 

Hi all!

I am a Windows insider, and I am using Narrator with Google Chrome browser in insider build 18290.

Narrator works just as well in Chrome, as JAWS or NVDA does.

It will come out in the Spring update.

David Moore

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Felix G.
Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2018 12:42 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Article: Microsoft will replace edge with chrome-basedbrowser for windows 10

 

Don't worry, I have every reason to believe they are very much

committed to accessibility. The transition to UIA was for very valid

reasons even though it created some uncomfortable moments, but that's

what happens for most paradigm shifts.

Let's all make liberal use of the feedback hub when things break for us.

All the best,

Felix

Am Mi., 5. Dez. 2018 um 17:32 Uhr schrieb Jason White via Groups.Io

<jason@...>:

> It's reported here that UIA clients such as Narrator can now access the IAccessible2 API used by Chrome.

> https://www.windowscentral.com/windows-10-build-18267-heads-out-fast-ring-insiders

> (not yet released, apparently)

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee

> Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2018 10:10 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] Article: Microsoft will replace edge with chrome-based browser for windows 10

> Hi,

> This changes if Microsoft insists on using UIA to communicate with the supposed new browser/rendering engine.

> Cheers,

> Joseph

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Felix G.

> Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2018 6:44 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] Article: Microsoft will replace edge with chrome-based browser for windows 10

> Hi!

> If the new variant will be Chromium-based, chances are it will play nice with NVDA.

> Best,

> Felix

> Am Mi., 5. Dez. 2018 um 15:37 Uhr schrieb Joseph Lee

> <joseph.lee22590@...>:

> >

> > Hi,

> > Like any rumors, this is bound to change without notice if market conditions and other variables change.

> > Cheers,

> > Joseph

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jacob

> > Kruger

> > Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2018 6:31 AM

> > To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> > Subject: Re: [nvda] Article: Microsoft will replace edge with

> > chrome-based browser for windows 10

> >

> > Ron, while I, honestly, haven't bothered trying out edge too much, all I really meant with my comment was that, if MS themselves are discarding it, then it might not merit much more attention from the NVDA developers?

> >

> >

> > And, if it's going to come up in it's current state at times, then, hopefully NVDA versions won't get confused about how they should handle it - if differently at all.

> >

> >

> > But, I primarily just posted this article here since I found it interesting from a browser end-user point of view.

> >

> >

> > Stay well

> >

> >

> > Jacob Kruger

> > 082 413 4791

> > Skype: BlindZA

> > "Resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."

> > On 2018-12-05 4:24 PM, Ron Canazzi wrote:

> > > Hi Jacob,

> > >

> > >

> > > The only issue I have had with NVDA and Edge is the inability of

> > > NVDA to recognize visited links.  I have used Edge with great

> > > success on and off over the past year or so--although I do prefer

> > > Firefox as my default browser.

> > >

> > >

> > > On 12/5/2018 5:50 AM, Jacob Kruger wrote:

> > >> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/software/288342-microsoft-will-repla

> > >> ce -edge-with-chrome-based-browser-for-windows-10-report.html

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> They don't mention anything like time-scale, but, presume this will

> > >> mean NVDA devs, etc. can leave out too much worrying about edge

> > >> buffering compatibility?

> > >>

> > >> Jacob Kruger

> > >> Blind Biker

> > >> Skype: BlindZA

> > >> "Resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

 

 

 


Re: Update to eSpeak NG- please test in Beta3

 

I can't remember right now when I did the last update on my NVDA, all I can remember is that I did it this week.
It's all right here.
P.S.: I'm one of the guys that had mentioned problems with other eSpeak test and I also tested the correction. After this I didn't had any problem regarding the pronunciation and stuff.
Em 05/12/2018 19:36, Quentin Christensen escreveu:

Hi everyone,

For those using eSpeak NG, we've updated the build we're using in NVDA for 2018.4.  If you haven't already, I'd encourage you to test the beta builds to make sure there aren't any issues with it.

You can download NVDA 2018.4beta3 here: https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2018-4beta3-released/

Note, it's not new for beta 3 specifically, so if you've been using the betas, you've already had it, but I thought it was worth a special mention.

Quentin.

--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 



Re: [nvda-addons] Interesting and very informative lecture for potential developers

Adriani Botez
 

Hello,

Joseph's Python course can be read here. Just join that group and follow the treat. There are also many exercises you can do to aply different python programming principles.

https://nvda.groups.io/g/devlearning


Best
Adriani


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io <nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io> Im Auftrag von ???
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 5. Dezember 2018 09:13
An: addon <nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>
Betreff: Re: [nvda-addons] Interesting and very informative lecture for potential developers

I never found the Python learning course on it.
Thank you!

On Wed, 5 Dec 2018, Larry Wang wrote:

https://www.josephsl.net/tutorials/

On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 9:48 AM 高生旺 <coscell@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Adriani

Where to browse the Joseph Lee's course?

On Tue, 4 Dec 2018, Adriani Botez wrote:

>
> Dear all,
>
>
> after Joseph Lee organized and maintained the very important and very good Python learning course 2017 / 2018, I think it is time for us to keep in touch with screen reader related information. This is important if you
want to learn how
> to improve things from a programatical point of view. Speaking for myself, I don’t know if I ever will be able to improve things in a consistent way. I am not a professional programer but I am trying to do it in my spare
time and am
> interested to understand the principles behind it. Though, NVDA’s code is very complex and in fact, we can understand it much better if we actually know how NVDA gets the information it reads out for us. So I think this
tutorial
> explains in quite understandable terms how accessibility APIs work, compares them and shows how WEI-ARIA fits in this construct.
>
>
> I recommend to all of you who want to try to contribute to NVDA’s code anytime in his life, read this tutorial and try to understand its core aspects. This tutorial brings most modern technologies in discussion and in my
opinion is
> covering all important points with regard to Accessibility APIs and their meaning for screen readers.
>
>
> https://www.w3.org/TR/core-aam-1.1/
>
>
>
> Best
>
> Adriani
>
>
>
>
>






Re: realtech drivers

 

AAh, thanks links look like they changed.

On 12/6/2018 9:54 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Shaun,

           You did not mention which Realtek audio device it is that you're looking for the driver for, but there are many still available from Realtek.  See:

                          https://www.realtek.com/en/component/zoo/advanced-search/469?Itemid=276

This page, specifically, https://www.realtek.com/en/component/zoo/category/pc-audio-codecs-high-definition-audio-codecs-software , almost certainly has the Windows driver you're looking for.  They're updated through 2017 and for Windows 10 as well as earlier Windows.

--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763

*A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.*

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back



Re: 2018-4 beta 3

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

I think the beta versions of NVDA have that ding sound to indicate some kind of an error but I don't know for sure. Perhaps someone could clarify that for me so I can understand it better.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2018 10:43 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] 2018-4 beta 3

Running the latest beta on a win 10 1809 system. If I go to youtube move to the edit box and hit enter to enable me to type in my search.
After typing in a few letters I start getting the NVDA error ding for each letter I press to finish entering my search term. I press enter and the search seems to work as it should but why the error dings when entering data into the search edit box?


Re: Update to eSpeak NG- please test in Beta3

Quentin Christensen
 

Great to hear Rosemarie,

I'm not specifically expecting problems, but I know recently when we have updated builds, people have commented that it has fixed some things and broken others.  Particularly around support for various languages.

On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 9:07 AM Rosemarie Chavarria <knitqueen2007@...> wrote:

Hi, Quentin,

 

It's working fine for me here.

 

Rosemarie

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2018 1:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Update to eSpeak NG- please test in Beta3

 

Hi everyone,

 

For those using eSpeak NG, we've updated the build we're using in NVDA for 2018.4.  If you haven't already, I'd encourage you to test the beta builds to make sure there aren't any issues with it.

 

You can download NVDA 2018.4beta3 here: https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2018-4beta3-released/

 

Note, it's not new for beta 3 specifically, so if you've been using the betas, you've already had it, but I thought it was worth a special mention.

 

Quentin.

 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: Update to eSpeak NG- please test in Beta3

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, Quentin,

 

It's working fine for me here.

 

Rosemarie

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2018 1:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Update to eSpeak NG- please test in Beta3

 

Hi everyone,

 

For those using eSpeak NG, we've updated the build we're using in NVDA for 2018.4.  If you haven't already, I'd encourage you to test the beta builds to make sure there aren't any issues with it.

 

You can download NVDA 2018.4beta3 here: https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2018-4beta3-released/

 

Note, it's not new for beta 3 specifically, so if you've been using the betas, you've already had it, but I thought it was worth a special mention.

 

Quentin.

 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: NVDA 2018.4beta3

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

I got the update here too.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2018 1:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA 2018.4beta3

 

Good to hear, thanks Brian!

 

On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 2:59 AM Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

Yes it updated OK here.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2018 10:29 PM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA 2018.4beta3


Hi everyone,

I forgot to post yesterday, but beta3 has been released for NVDA 2018.4.
Specifically changed in this version:

Changes from Beta2:

   - Fix bug where table cells in Libre Office Calc were always reporting
   as ‘unselected’.
   - Fix bug where reporting distance of the cursor to the edge of a page
   in Microsoft Word was not taking paragraph indenting into account.
   - Fix bug where editing a punctuation symbol (such as an emoji) but not
   providing a replacement would cause speech to completely fail.
   - Updated translations


Read the full announcement and download the beta from:
https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2018-4beta3-released/

Regards

Quentin.


--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess







 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: NVDA 2018.4beta3

Quentin Christensen
 

Good to hear, thanks Brian!


On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 2:59 AM Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Yes it updated OK here.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2018 10:29 PM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA 2018.4beta3


Hi everyone,

I forgot to post yesterday, but beta3 has been released for NVDA 2018.4.
Specifically changed in this version:

Changes from Beta2:

   - Fix bug where table cells in Libre Office Calc were always reporting
   as ‘unselected’.
   - Fix bug where reporting distance of the cursor to the edge of a page
   in Microsoft Word was not taking paragraph indenting into account.
   - Fix bug where editing a punctuation symbol (such as an emoji) but not
   providing a replacement would cause speech to completely fail.
   - Updated translations


Read the full announcement and download the beta from:
https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2018-4beta3-released/

Regards

Quentin.


--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess









--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Update to eSpeak NG- please test in Beta3

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi everyone,

For those using eSpeak NG, we've updated the build we're using in NVDA for 2018.4.  If you haven't already, I'd encourage you to test the beta builds to make sure there aren't any issues with it.

You can download NVDA 2018.4beta3 here: https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2018-4beta3-released/

Note, it's not new for beta 3 specifically, so if you've been using the betas, you've already had it, but I thought it was worth a special mention.

Quentin.

--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: realtech drivers

 

Shaun,

           You did not mention which Realtek audio device it is that you're looking for the driver for, but there are many still available from Realtek.  See:

                          https://www.realtek.com/en/component/zoo/advanced-search/469?Itemid=276

This page, specifically, https://www.realtek.com/en/component/zoo/category/pc-audio-codecs-high-definition-audio-codecs-software, almost certainly has the Windows driver you're looking for.  They're updated through 2017 and for Windows 10 as well as earlier Windows.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 


realtech drivers

 

Hi all.

This is going generally to nvda list instead of win10 list.

1.  it appears that realtech no longer produce their audio devices their webpages for those seem to have gone.

2.  although free-codecs has a github page.

https://github.com/alanfox2000/realtek-hda-release/releases/

page,

and a huge 5gb rar file with all of them in it, there is a problem.

Right now I would use the last cabinet releases for 32-64 bit for win10.

For 7 users I would use filehipo to get the latest 2.82 release or 2.81 release which is not broken.

Due to the fact that the readme is so poor I can't decifer exactly what the well what the ids which are folders for drivers mean and how to go about finding the right ones to load.

It does appear that for all purposes realtech no longer produces their own drivers or their own chips for audio though  and maybe other things as their webpages are not in english anymore.

If this is true, I will miss them.

True some of their stuff has been crap but to be honest the base hardware has been one of the most stable stuff for ages, later implimentations are not as accessible but the basic drivers have always been good.

If there is a way to decode things and maptch the right driver ids with the right systems and what they mean that would be good but there is no way to email the author of the repository.


Re: Permanently disabling watchdog via config

Gene
 

The NVDA module would be what is evidently being referred to then. 
 
But to clarify, I didn't say the other Watchdog is malware.  it's an antimalware program so people may want to learn about it even if it doesn't apply to this thread.
 
My comments on Watchdog are as a member, not a moderator and there is no reason to respond differently to them than to anyone else's.  No concern about my role as a moderator in disagreeing need apply nor be felt.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2018 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Permanently disabling watchdog via config

Hi all,

I think this is one of those times where I may need to override a forum leader in my capacity as a code contributor (sorry):

The watchdog is indeed not a malware. NVDA’s watchdog is used to keep an eye on how NVDA itself is doing and react to NVDA crashing such as writing a minidump and restarting NVDA if necessary. If watchdog is gone, NVDA won’t be able to respond to its own crashes and such, thus disabling it is not generally recommended.

Thus please disregard the research done on it so far, as they have nothing to do with actual purpose of NVDA’s watchdog module.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2018 9:21 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Permanently disabling watchdog via config

 

From the name, this is most likely an antimalware program.  A Goodle search for Watchdog antimalware, shows this as the first result with an explanation of the program:

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Tyler Wood

Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2018 11:03 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Permanently disabling watchdog via config

 

Hi,

Please explain what you are talking about by 'watchdog'?

A quick google search of windows 10 watchdog nets how to fix errors
related to it, not how to disable it or even what it does.


Further googling it appears that this is an ssd driver?


On 2018-12-05 3:19 a.m., Felix G. wrote:
> Hello,
> I'm currently testing some driver scenarios with watchdog disabled,
> and by coincidence discovered that some of my longstanding NVDA issues
> are not present, or behave differently, when the watchdog is not on
> duty. Is there a quick'n'easy way to have the watchdog never start?
> All the best,
> Felix
>
>
>


2018-4 beta 3

Don H
 

Running the latest beta on a win 10 1809 system. If I go to youtube move to the edit box and hit enter to enable me to type in my search. After typing in a few letters I start getting the NVDA error ding for each letter I press to finish entering my search term. I press enter and the search seems to work as it should but why the error dings when entering data into the search edit box?


Re: Permanently disabling watchdog via config

 

Hi,
There is no such config option to turn off watchdog at startup, although I think a command line switch might help (if implemented) or modify the source code. The best person to talk to regarding NVDA watchdog is James Teh (Mozilla) who is the main architect of that module.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Felix G.
Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2018 9:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Permanently disabling watchdog via config

Hi!
Let me clear up some of the confusion: Watchdog, in computing, usually refers to a component which monitors whether a system is alive. If the system turns out to be unresponsive, the watchdog will step in and try to get it out of the tight spot. NVDA has one, too. For certain operations, if they do not complete within a certain time, the watchdog jumps in and cancels the operation to make NVDA more responsive. In short, whenever NVDA's core freezes, the watchdog will force it out of the spot where it froze and back into safe territory.
Apologies to programmers for the over-simplification. The truth has to do with threads and exceptions and stuff.
It's a bit like on an airplane. Let's say the pilot decides to switch to autopilot. Theoretically, the plane can now do everything it takes to get to its destination automatically, with the possible exception of landing, which requires human clearance. Still, you wouldn't want to fly with a dead pilot, so the pilot is required to press a button every now and then to indicate they're still alive and breathing.
That's how a watchdog works.
Now my machine, being somewhat on the slow side as far as machines go, seems to encounter a lot of those so-called freezes (unconscious pilots), so the watchdog thinks it has a lot of work to do and ends up cancelling many little interactions between NVDA and other processes.
As a result, data sometimes does not get relayed to NVDA the way it's supposed to, and therefore NVDA sometimes fails to track focus.
Disabling the watchdog, on my system, makes NVDA a bit sluggish sometimes as it wades through some slow spots, but it tends to arrive at the correct answers more often, which outweighs that disadvantage.
When NVDA is running, I can tell the watchdog to go to sleep by typing the following into the Python console:
import watchdog
watchdog.terminate()
So I'm pulling the watchdog's module into the console's scope and then calling its terminate function, which simply tells it to stop watching. Technically, the thread that does the watching just gets killed. Poor doggy. Fortunately just a software one.
Anyway, now I'm looking for a way to have NVDA never even start the watchdog, as I prefer living with the occasional sluggishness or crash rather than have the system behave indeterministically.
All the best,
Felix
Am Mi., 5. Dez. 2018 um 18:20 Uhr schrieb Gene <gsasner@gmail.com>:

From the name, this is most likely an antimalware program. A Goodle search for Watchdog antimalware, shows this as the first result with an explanation of the program:
https://www.watchdogdevelopment.com/en/home/anti-malware

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Tyler Wood
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2018 11:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Permanently disabling watchdog via config

Hi,

Please explain what you are talking about by 'watchdog'?

A quick google search of windows 10 watchdog nets how to fix errors
related to it, not how to disable it or even what it does.


Further googling it appears that this is an ssd driver?


On 2018-12-05 3:19 a.m., Felix G. wrote:
Hello,
I'm currently testing some driver scenarios with watchdog disabled,
and by coincidence discovered that some of my longstanding NVDA
issues are not present, or behave differently, when the watchdog is
not on duty. Is there a quick'n'easy way to have the watchdog never start?
All the best,
Felix




Re: Article: Microsoft will replace edge with chrome-based browser for windows 10

Felix G.
 

Don't worry, I have every reason to believe they are very much
committed to accessibility. The transition to UIA was for very valid
reasons even though it created some uncomfortable moments, but that's
what happens for most paradigm shifts.
Let's all make liberal use of the feedback hub when things break for us.
All the best,
Felix
Am Mi., 5. Dez. 2018 um 17:32 Uhr schrieb Jason White via Groups.Io
<jason=jasonjgw.net@groups.io>:


It's reported here that UIA clients such as Narrator can now access the IAccessible2 API used by Chrome.
https://www.windowscentral.com/windows-10-build-18267-heads-out-fast-ring-insiders
(not yet released, apparently)

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2018 10:10 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Article: Microsoft will replace edge with chrome-based browser for windows 10

Hi,
This changes if Microsoft insists on using UIA to communicate with the supposed new browser/rendering engine.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Felix G.
Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2018 6:44 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Article: Microsoft will replace edge with chrome-based browser for windows 10

Hi!
If the new variant will be Chromium-based, chances are it will play nice with NVDA.
Best,
Felix
Am Mi., 5. Dez. 2018 um 15:37 Uhr schrieb Joseph Lee
<joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>:

Hi,
Like any rumors, this is bound to change without notice if market conditions and other variables change.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jacob
Kruger
Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2018 6:31 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Article: Microsoft will replace edge with
chrome-based browser for windows 10

Ron, while I, honestly, haven't bothered trying out edge too much, all I really meant with my comment was that, if MS themselves are discarding it, then it might not merit much more attention from the NVDA developers?


And, if it's going to come up in it's current state at times, then, hopefully NVDA versions won't get confused about how they should handle it - if differently at all.


But, I primarily just posted this article here since I found it interesting from a browser end-user point of view.


Stay well


Jacob Kruger
082 413 4791
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."
On 2018-12-05 4:24 PM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Jacob,


The only issue I have had with NVDA and Edge is the inability of
NVDA to recognize visited links. I have used Edge with great
success on and off over the past year or so--although I do prefer
Firefox as my default browser.


On 12/5/2018 5:50 AM, Jacob Kruger wrote:
https://mybroadband.co.za/news/software/288342-microsoft-will-repla
ce -edge-with-chrome-based-browser-for-windows-10-report.html



They don't mention anything like time-scale, but, presume this will
mean NVDA devs, etc. can leave out too much worrying about edge
buffering compatibility?

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."
















Re: Permanently disabling watchdog via config

Felix G.
 

Hi!
Let me clear up some of the confusion: Watchdog, in computing, usually
refers to a component which monitors whether a system is alive. If the
system turns out to be unresponsive, the watchdog will step in and try
to get it out of the tight spot. NVDA has one, too. For certain
operations, if they do not complete within a certain time, the
watchdog jumps in and cancels the operation to make NVDA more
responsive. In short, whenever NVDA's core freezes, the watchdog will
force it out of the spot where it froze and back into safe territory.
Apologies to programmers for the over-simplification. The truth has to
do with threads and exceptions and stuff.
It's a bit like on an airplane. Let's say the pilot decides to switch
to autopilot. Theoretically, the plane can now do everything it takes
to get to its destination automatically, with the possible exception
of landing, which requires human clearance. Still, you wouldn't want
to fly with a dead pilot, so the pilot is required to press a button
every now and then to indicate they're still alive and breathing.
That's how a watchdog works.
Now my machine, being somewhat on the slow side as far as machines go,
seems to encounter a lot of those so-called freezes (unconscious
pilots), so the watchdog thinks it has a lot of work to do and ends up
cancelling many little interactions between NVDA and other processes.
As a result, data sometimes does not get relayed to NVDA the way it's
supposed to, and therefore NVDA sometimes fails to track focus.
Disabling the watchdog, on my system, makes NVDA a bit sluggish
sometimes as it wades through some slow spots, but it tends to arrive
at the correct answers more often, which outweighs that disadvantage.
When NVDA is running, I can tell the watchdog to go to sleep by typing
the following into the Python console:
import watchdog
watchdog.terminate()
So I'm pulling the watchdog's module into the console's scope and then
calling its terminate function, which simply tells it to stop
watching. Technically, the thread that does the watching just gets
killed. Poor doggy. Fortunately just a software one.
Anyway, now I'm looking for a way to have NVDA never even start the
watchdog, as I prefer living with the occasional sluggishness or crash
rather than have the system behave indeterministically.
All the best,
Felix
Am Mi., 5. Dez. 2018 um 18:20 Uhr schrieb Gene <gsasner@gmail.com>:


From the name, this is most likely an antimalware program. A Goodle search for Watchdog antimalware, shows this as the first result with an explanation of the program:
https://www.watchdogdevelopment.com/en/home/anti-malware

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Tyler Wood
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2018 11:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Permanently disabling watchdog via config

Hi,

Please explain what you are talking about by 'watchdog'?

A quick google search of windows 10 watchdog nets how to fix errors
related to it, not how to disable it or even what it does.


Further googling it appears that this is an ssd driver?


On 2018-12-05 3:19 a.m., Felix G. wrote:
Hello,
I'm currently testing some driver scenarios with watchdog disabled,
and by coincidence discovered that some of my longstanding NVDA issues
are not present, or behave differently, when the watchdog is not on
duty. Is there a quick'n'easy way to have the watchdog never start?
All the best,
Felix




Re: Permanently disabling watchdog via config

 

Hi all,

I think this is one of those times where I may need to override a forum leader in my capacity as a code contributor (sorry):

The watchdog is indeed not a malware. NVDA’s watchdog is used to keep an eye on how NVDA itself is doing and react to NVDA crashing such as writing a minidump and restarting NVDA if necessary. If watchdog is gone, NVDA won’t be able to respond to its own crashes and such, thus disabling it is not generally recommended.

Thus please disregard the research done on it so far, as they have nothing to do with actual purpose of NVDA’s watchdog module.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2018 9:21 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Permanently disabling watchdog via config

 

From the name, this is most likely an antimalware program.  A Goodle search for Watchdog antimalware, shows this as the first result with an explanation of the program:

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Tyler Wood

Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2018 11:03 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Permanently disabling watchdog via config

 

Hi,

Please explain what you are talking about by 'watchdog'?

A quick google search of windows 10 watchdog nets how to fix errors
related to it, not how to disable it or even what it does.


Further googling it appears that this is an ssd driver?


On 2018-12-05 3:19 a.m., Felix G. wrote:
> Hello,
> I'm currently testing some driver scenarios with watchdog disabled,
> and by coincidence discovered that some of my longstanding NVDA issues
> are not present, or behave differently, when the watchdog is not on
> duty. Is there a quick'n'easy way to have the watchdog never start?
> All the best,
> Felix
>
>
>


Re: Permanently disabling watchdog via config

Gene
 

From the name, this is most likely an antimalware program.  A Goodle search for Watchdog antimalware, shows this as the first result with an explanation of the program:
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Tyler Wood
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2018 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Permanently disabling watchdog via config

Hi,

Please explain what you are talking about by 'watchdog'?

A quick google search of windows 10 watchdog nets how to fix errors
related to it, not how to disable it or even what it does.


Further googling it appears that this is an ssd driver?


On 2018-12-05 3:19 a.m., Felix G. wrote:
> Hello,
> I'm currently testing some driver scenarios with watchdog disabled,
> and by coincidence discovered that some of my longstanding NVDA issues
> are not present, or behave differently, when the watchdog is not on
> duty. Is there a quick'n'easy way to have the watchdog never start?
> All the best,
> Felix
>
>
>



Re: Permanently disabling watchdog via config

Tyler Wood
 

In windows 10 1803, If your issues are the same as mine with NVDA, I should also add here that I really wish I didn't have to perform 5000 steps to get a screen reader to do basic tasks - like reading the windows explorer window after files are copied, moved, or deleted.


I'm exagerating, but this has been going on for 3 plus years and nothing seems to correlate or come to a solution. On lower end hardware it is almost intolerable - alt tabbing is somehow related to this, I think.


However, using 1809, this issue, from what I can see anyway, appears to be almost gone - windows explorer performs similar to other screen readers now and I'm not sure what actually solved this. I only have one computer running the 1809 update, though, so only time will tell. I'm also not running the 2018.4 betas.


So - in conclusion, if you're having these issues, perhaps waiting until the 1809 update hits your device rather than disabling certain drivers would be your best bet? Unless you're having other issues that I'm not aware of.


Either way these are interesting findings.

On 2018-12-05 3:19 a.m., Felix G. wrote:
Hello,
I'm currently testing some driver scenarios with watchdog disabled,
and by coincidence discovered that some of my longstanding NVDA issues
are not present, or behave differently, when the watchdog is not on
duty. Is there a quick'n'easy way to have the watchdog never start?
All the best,
Felix