Date   

Re: Windows themes and NVDA

Steve Nutt
 

I don't think they do, but I may be wrong. The reason I say this, is that
NVDA doesn't use a traditional Off Screen Model.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of John J. Boyer
Sent: 06 September 2022 13:49
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Windows themes and NVDA

How do Windows themes affect NVDA? Which ones should be avoided? how can I
view and set themes?

Thanks,
John

--
John J. Boyer
Email: john.boyer@...
website: http://www.abilitiessoft.org
Status: Company dissolved but website and email addresses live.
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Mission: developing assistive technology software and providing STEM
services
that are available at no cost


Windows themes and NVDA

John J. Boyer
 

How do Windows themes affect NVDA? Which ones should be avoided? how can I view and set themes?

Thanks,
John

--
John J. Boyer
Email: john.boyer@...
website: http://www.abilitiessoft.org
Status: Company dissolved but website and email addresses live.
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Mission: developing assistive technology software and providing STEM services
that are available at no cost


Re: auto detecting screen reader

Steve Nutt
 

Conversely, if you don’t have the answer to the question, why do you answer, without reading the post properly?

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: 05 September 2022 19:51
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] auto detecting screen reader

 

On Mon, Sep 5, 2022 at 02:32 PM, Don H wrote:

Rather than asking why please just answer my question as to if you can hide the screen reader.

-
I don't have the answer.

You, and a lot of other members of this group need to get over the idea that every response is directed to you as the original poster.  Many original posters have given little thought to the results of what they're asking about.  That may not be you, specifically, but it could be any number of others who might be inclined to impulsively disable this automated checking for accessibility software in use.

That has downsides, and those deserve discussion.  It's not all about you, and your question, but about the other things that question brings up.  And that applies to the "generic you" for every post.

If someone has the answer to your question, I'd suppose they will actually supply the information.  Sometimes no one does.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

It is well to open one's mind but only as a preliminary to closing it . . . for the supreme act of judgment and selection.

       ~ Irving Babbitt


Re: auto detecting screen reader

Steve Nutt
 

Brian, Don is saying that you don’t get the choice, it simply enables those options if it sees a screen reader running.

 

So you haven’t answered the original question at all, you have just muddied the water.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: 05 September 2022 19:47
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] auto detecting screen reader

 

On Mon, Sep 5, 2022 at 01:58 PM, Gene wrote:

We don't know what is being seen. 

-
Gene,

To me, that's not relevant.  If you don't know if you want it, then answer in the negative.

I'm faced with lots of questions where it's of the, "I have no idea what that is, so, no, thanks," is what the answer amounts to.  But sometimes I do, and the answer is "Yes."
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

It is well to open one's mind but only as a preliminary to closing it . . . for the supreme act of judgment and selection.

       ~ Irving Babbitt


Re: auto detecting screen reader

Steve Nutt
 

Yep, they are horrible. I avoid them like the plague if I can.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 05 September 2022 18:58
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] auto detecting screen reader

 

We don't know what is being seen.  If it is one of the accessibility overlays, it likely makes the site harder to use and these overlays are so unwanted that there is at least one lawsuit against one of the companies who sell them to web sites, claiming that AI can solve accessibility problems for blind users and bring the site into compliance with the ADA just by the site having the overlay.

Gene

On 9/5/2022 11:53 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Mon, Sep 5, 2022 at 12:42 PM, Don H wrote:

I find this annoying to say the least.

-
Why?

It's a one-time accept or decline (unless you constantly delete site cookies).

For the love of heaven, when a site has additional accessibility options why would you NOT want to know about them?  These detections occur in other things, too, such as Adobe Reader DC, which will ask you whether you want to set up things with the Accessibility Wizard (also one time) and, believe me, in that context you absolutely do want to.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

It is well to open one's mind but only as a preliminary to closing it . . . for the supreme act of judgment and selection.

       ~ Irving Babbitt

 


Re: auto detecting screen reader

Steve Nutt
 

Hi Brian,

 

It rather depends on whether those so-called accessibility options are well implemented. Often on websites they are not. They just chuck everything at ARIA as alerts, and everything gets read out.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: 05 September 2022 17:54
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] auto detecting screen reader

 

On Mon, Sep 5, 2022 at 12:42 PM, Don H wrote:

I find this annoying to say the least.

-
Why?

It's a one-time accept or decline (unless you constantly delete site cookies).

For the love of heaven, when a site has additional accessibility options why would you NOT want to know about them?  These detections occur in other things, too, such as Adobe Reader DC, which will ask you whether you want to set up things with the Accessibility Wizard (also one time) and, believe me, in that context you absolutely do want to.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

It is well to open one's mind but only as a preliminary to closing it . . . for the supreme act of judgment and selection.

       ~ Irving Babbitt


regarding my older message

udit pandey
 

hi group,
once, I posted a message asking about how to creat my own voice as tts I got a link from someone I am not able to find it
pls help


Re: Settings import/export feature

Minoli Perera
 

Hi Gene,

Thank you for the information. I will try it out.

Thanks & Best Regards,
Minoli


Re: Settings import/export feature

Gene
 

The only way I know to do it is to create a portable copy of NVDA, if you are using an installed version.  If you are already using a portable copy, copy it to the other machine.

If you create a portable copy from an installed copy, you will be asked if you want to include settings as you create the portable copy.  I don't recall just how the question is worded, but you'll know it when you hear it.  If you answer yes, the portable copy will contain all the settings of the installed version.

Then, place the portable copy on the other machine and, if you want to use an installed version, tell it to create an installed version.  I don't recall, I've almost never done either of these things, whether you are asked about settings.  If you are, answer yes.

To do both of these things, look in the tools part of the NVDA menu.  There you will see an item for create portable copy and to install NVDA.

Gene
On 9/5/2022 8:41 PM, Minoli Perera via groups.io wrote:

Hi Brian,

Thank you for your reply. I was referring to the core screen reader settings, mentioned in https://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvda/documentation/userGuide.html?#ConfiguringNVDA . I was wondering if there is a way of exporting these and importing these to another computer.

Thanks & Best Regards,
Minoli


Re: Settings import/export feature

Minoli Perera
 

Hi Brian,

Thank you for your reply. I was referring to the core screen reader settings, mentioned in https://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvda/documentation/userGuide.html?#ConfiguringNVDA . I was wondering if there is a way of exporting these and importing these to another computer.

Thanks & Best Regards,
Minoli


locked Windows App Essentials 22.09.1 #addonrelease

 

Hi all,

Windows App Essentials 22.09.1 is now available:

https://github.com/josephsl/wintenApps/releases/download/22.09/wintenApps-22.09.1.nvda-addon

 

You can download the release now or wait until Add-on Updater and similar tools offer it to you.

 

This release should be considered optional to critical update depending on which NVDA version you are using at the moment:

  • 2022.2.x: optional but recommended
  • 2022.3 beta: optional but recommended
  • Alpha snapshots (tracking 2022.4): critical

 

Version 22.09.1 includes a critical fix for NVDA alpha snapshot users where recent (and upcoming) builds may announce UIA powered drag and drop effects multiple times. In short, a future version of NVDA (likely 2022.4) will improve accessible drag and drop support, meaning you won’t need Windows App Essentials to hear announcements such as what happens when you rearrange Windows 10 Start menu tiles or quick settings items in Windows 11. In some cases, after installing the add-on update, you won’t hear focused item after dragging items, and that’s something I have no solution for… or rather, I’m preparing users for what will happen with future NVDA releases; I will let you experience it in upcoming Windows App Essentials add-on releases (if you are using dev builds of this add-on, you know what’s up) as early as October.

 

Note that Windows App Essentials 22.09.1 was queued for distribution on community add-ons website. But if you want to get it early, you can do it now by selecting the download link provided, or install Add-on Updater 22.09 and see the add-on update being offered to you by this time tomorrow (set add-on update source to community add-ons website).

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: auto detecting screen reader

 

On Mon, Sep 5, 2022 at 05:01 PM, Don H wrote:
thought it was a reasonable question to ask
-
It was a perfectly reasonable question to ask.  And you got a perfectly reasonable range of responses to the other issues the question touches on, as well as finally an answer that, while you may not have wanted, decides things.

People asking questions in response to your question, or offering expansions, is perfectly reasonable, too.

You need to get over, now, the idea that no one can challenge you.  They can, and should, if they so choose and the challenge is civil.  Asking why you would want to do this, in light of all that has followed on, was way more than a perfectly reasonable response.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

It is well to open one's mind but only as a preliminary to closing it . . . for the supreme act of judgment and selection.

       ~ Irving Babbitt


Re: auto detecting screen reader

Don H
 

Thanks for finally giving me a answer. I can easily live with a answer of No but thought it was a reasonable question to ask since I found no such info in the Nvda help

On 9/5/2022 2:59 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
And the answer is... yes and no, more towards no. Some programs (including some web browsers and web apps) can tell if you've got an assistive technology such as a screen reader running by querying specific information from the host system (the computer the app runs on). If the operating system (Windows, for example) informs the app that a screen reader is running, the app can either handle things differently by itself or expose this fact for others to use (technically, this is called "consuming"). You can in fact tell NVDA to not set screen reader flag when it starts, which "hides" its presence - there are other ways to detect if a screen reader is running, and one such way is via Windows Registry (won't go into details here); this means apps looking for a screen reader will find that no-one is responding to such a question when in fact the screen reader is moving around without identifying itself (some apps can probe specific places in the operating system, but it runs into performance problems; I can discuss details if you really want to know how a system call works inside an operating system). Therefore, the answer is really no.
Cheers,
Joseph


Re: auto detecting screen reader

Don H
 

I thought my original posting was worded in such a way to have a yes or
no answer. Don't think Why is a reasonable answer.

On 9/5/2022 1:50 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Mon, Sep 5, 2022 at 02:32 PM, Don H wrote:

Rather than asking why please just answer my question as to if you
can hide the screen reader.

-
I don't have the answer.

You, and a lot of other members of this group need to get over the idea
that every response is directed to you as the original poster.  Many
original posters have given little thought to the results of what
they're asking about.  That may not be you, specifically, but it could
be any number of others who might be inclined to impulsively disable
this automated checking for accessibility software in use.

That has downsides, and those deserve discussion.  It's not all about
you, and your question, but about the other things that question brings
up.  And that applies to the "generic you" for every post.

If someone has the answer to your question, I'd suppose they will
actually supply the information.  Sometimes no one does.
--

Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

It is well to open one's mind but only as a preliminary to closing it .
. . for the supreme act of judgment and selection.

~ Irving Babbitt


Re: auto detecting screen reader

 

Hi,

And the answer is... yes and no, more towards no. Some programs (including some web browsers and web apps) can tell if you've got an assistive technology such as a screen reader running by querying specific information from the host system (the computer the app runs on). If the operating system (Windows, for example) informs the app that a screen reader is running, the app can either handle things differently by itself or expose this fact for others to use (technically, this is called "consuming"). You can in fact tell NVDA to not set screen reader flag when it starts, which "hides" its presence - there are other ways to detect if a screen reader is running, and one such way is via Windows Registry (won't go into details here); this means apps looking for a screen reader will find that no-one is responding to such a question when in fact the screen reader is moving around without identifying itself (some apps can probe specific places in the operating system, but it runs into performance problems; I can discuss details if you really want to know how a system call works inside an operating system). Therefore, the answer is really no.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: auto detecting screen reader

Sarah k Alawami
 

Yep, sounds to me like they are using that overlay. I recognize it, and once you say no, it will come back if you even so much as switch pages.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rui Fontes
Sent: Monday, September 5, 2022 12:28 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] auto detecting screen reader

 

Hello!

 

I could reproduce the problem.

Go to lenovo.com and in the combobox to select the country select United States.

 

When the accessibility information have appeared, I pressed Control F9 to the options.

The last button is to turn off all accessibility settings, and I have pressed it.

 

The next time I go to the page, through the Chrome historic, only appears in the begin of the page the following:

Button, not available. Press ‎ Control + F9 ‎ at any time to move to the menu containing shortcuts to page main areas

 

I have also accepted the cookies...

 

The only way to hide the presence of a screen reader is through the Windows registry...

 

Rui Fontes

 

Às 20:02 de 05/09/2022, Brian Vogel escreveu:

On Mon, Sep 5, 2022 at 02:53 PM, Gene wrote:

If you are given a choice and if it is honored.

-
The "choice" part was presented.  And I presume when a choice is presented, the response will be honored, if for nothing more than the session if a permanent cookie is not set for it.

If you're not being presented a choice that's a whole different kettle of fish, and if whatever's being done hoses accessibility that needs to be addressed.  But the last way I'd be inclined to address it is by doing something to hide the information that a screen reader is in use.  As I gave an example with setup of Acrobat Reader (and sometimes when certain documents are opened) if a screen reader is detected there are things that Reader does that greatly increase accessibility.  I wouldn't want someone masking the presence of their screen reader, ultimately forgetting they've done so (and that's what happens for all kinds of settings we tweak and forgot we tweaked), and then losing out on a lot of options they might not otherwise be aware of or even be able to activate.

The above is precisely what I mean "other things a question brings up."  They need to be discussed so that those who are reading, and there are many in addition to the original poster, can make an informed decision.

This group, and groups like them, are not simple question and answer groups and it is a huge mistake to believe that they are.  If I have to disabuse certain people of that notion, I have no hesitation about doing so.  They're information exchanges where Q&A is a part of those exchanges. 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

It is well to open one's mind but only as a preliminary to closing it . . . for the supreme act of judgment and selection.

       ~ Irving Babbitt


Re: auto detecting screen reader

Sarah k Alawami
 

Yep. I often don’t’ want a site deciding if I should have these settings and or off. Some sites if you say no will keep bugging you and that is using that overlay which company is in a lawsuit right now.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, September 5, 2022 10:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] auto detecting screen reader

 

We don't know what is being seen.  If it is one of the accessibility overlays, it likely makes the site harder to use and these overlays are so unwanted that there is at least one lawsuit against one of the companies who sell them to web sites, claiming that AI can solve accessibility problems for blind users and bring the site into compliance with the ADA just by the site having the overlay.

Gene

On 9/5/2022 11:53 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Mon, Sep 5, 2022 at 12:42 PM, Don H wrote:

I find this annoying to say the least.

-
Why?

It's a one-time accept or decline (unless you constantly delete site cookies).

For the love of heaven, when a site has additional accessibility options why would you NOT want to know about them?  These detections occur in other things, too, such as Adobe Reader DC, which will ask you whether you want to set up things with the Accessibility Wizard (also one time) and, believe me, in that context you absolutely do want to.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

It is well to open one's mind but only as a preliminary to closing it . . . for the supreme act of judgment and selection.

       ~ Irving Babbitt

 


Re: auto detecting screen reader

Rui Fontes
 

Hello!


I could reproduce the problem.

Go to lenovo.com and in the combobox to select the country select United States.


When the accessibility information have appeared, I pressed Control F9 to the options.

The last button is to turn off all accessibility settings, and I have pressed it.


The next time I go to the page, through the Chrome historic, only appears in the begin of the page the following:

Button, not available. Press ‎ Control + F9 ‎ at any time to move to the menu containing shortcuts to page main areas


I have also accepted the cookies...


The only way to hide the presence of a screen reader is through the Windows registry...


Rui Fontes


Às 20:02 de 05/09/2022, Brian Vogel escreveu:

On Mon, Sep 5, 2022 at 02:53 PM, Gene wrote:
If you are given a choice and if it is honored.
-
The "choice" part was presented.  And I presume when a choice is presented, the response will be honored, if for nothing more than the session if a permanent cookie is not set for it.

If you're not being presented a choice that's a whole different kettle of fish, and if whatever's being done hoses accessibility that needs to be addressed.  But the last way I'd be inclined to address it is by doing something to hide the information that a screen reader is in use.  As I gave an example with setup of Acrobat Reader (and sometimes when certain documents are opened) if a screen reader is detected there are things that Reader does that greatly increase accessibility.  I wouldn't want someone masking the presence of their screen reader, ultimately forgetting they've done so (and that's what happens for all kinds of settings we tweak and forgot we tweaked), and then losing out on a lot of options they might not otherwise be aware of or even be able to activate.

The above is precisely what I mean "other things a question brings up."  They need to be discussed so that those who are reading, and there are many in addition to the original poster, can make an informed decision.

This group, and groups like them, are not simple question and answer groups and it is a huge mistake to believe that they are.  If I have to disabuse certain people of that notion, I have no hesitation about doing so.  They're information exchanges where Q&A is a part of those exchanges. 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

It is well to open one's mind but only as a preliminary to closing it . . . for the supreme act of judgment and selection.

       ~ Irving Babbitt


Re: auto detecting screen reader

Rui Fontes
 

Hello!


I could reproduce the problem.

Go to lenovo.com and in the combobox to select the country select United States.


When the accessibility information have appeared, I pressed Control F9 to the options.

The last button is to turn off all accessibility settings, and I have pressed it.


The next time I go to the page, through the Chrome historic, only appears in the begin of the page the following:

Button, not available. Press ‎ Control + F9 ‎ at any time to move to the menu containing shortcuts to page main areas


I have also accepted the cookies...


Rui Fontes


Às 20:02 de 05/09/2022, Brian Vogel escreveu:

On Mon, Sep 5, 2022 at 02:53 PM, Gene wrote:
If you are given a choice and if it is honored.
-
The "choice" part was presented.  And I presume when a choice is presented, the response will be honored, if for nothing more than the session if a permanent cookie is not set for it.

If you're not being presented a choice that's a whole different kettle of fish, and if whatever's being done hoses accessibility that needs to be addressed.  But the last way I'd be inclined to address it is by doing something to hide the information that a screen reader is in use.  As I gave an example with setup of Acrobat Reader (and sometimes when certain documents are opened) if a screen reader is detected there are things that Reader does that greatly increase accessibility.  I wouldn't want someone masking the presence of their screen reader, ultimately forgetting they've done so (and that's what happens for all kinds of settings we tweak and forgot we tweaked), and then losing out on a lot of options they might not otherwise be aware of or even be able to activate.

The above is precisely what I mean "other things a question brings up."  They need to be discussed so that those who are reading, and there are many in addition to the original poster, can make an informed decision.

This group, and groups like them, are not simple question and answer groups and it is a huge mistake to believe that they are.  If I have to disabuse certain people of that notion, I have no hesitation about doing so.  They're information exchanges where Q&A is a part of those exchanges. 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

It is well to open one's mind but only as a preliminary to closing it . . . for the supreme act of judgment and selection.

       ~ Irving Babbitt


Re: auto detecting screen reader

 

On Mon, Sep 5, 2022 at 02:53 PM, Gene wrote:
If you are given a choice and if it is honored.
-
The "choice" part was presented.  And I presume when a choice is presented, the response will be honored, if for nothing more than the session if a permanent cookie is not set for it.

If you're not being presented a choice that's a whole different kettle of fish, and if whatever's being done hoses accessibility that needs to be addressed.  But the last way I'd be inclined to address it is by doing something to hide the information that a screen reader is in use.  As I gave an example with setup of Acrobat Reader (and sometimes when certain documents are opened) if a screen reader is detected there are things that Reader does that greatly increase accessibility.  I wouldn't want someone masking the presence of their screen reader, ultimately forgetting they've done so (and that's what happens for all kinds of settings we tweak and forgot we tweaked), and then losing out on a lot of options they might not otherwise be aware of or even be able to activate.

The above is precisely what I mean "other things a question brings up."  They need to be discussed so that those who are reading, and there are many in addition to the original poster, can make an informed decision.

This group, and groups like them, are not simple question and answer groups and it is a huge mistake to believe that they are.  If I have to disabuse certain people of that notion, I have no hesitation about doing so.  They're information exchanges where Q&A is a part of those exchanges. 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

It is well to open one's mind but only as a preliminary to closing it . . . for the supreme act of judgment and selection.

       ~ Irving Babbitt