Hi Janet

Thanks for this. Insert and End alone did nothing for me. But when I pressed Insert Shift End in Word, it worked. because I was in laptop mode. When I switched to desktop mode, Insert End worked.

David

Want to preface by saying in no way was I hoping anyone here would do
troubleshooting I can do, was just looking for feedback to the question "is
this sort of math reading error common/known" so I could rule out it being
something with the LMS, with the version of Mathjax used, etc. to widen my
knowledgebase before knowing what to try out next.

I will now answer my own question, being given the hint by you all to
experiment with the set synths and voices. I had not done this because the
goal on our side is to provide accessible and readable math, with the
responsibility for the customization needed for this screenreader or that
being with the user.

This reading error occurs also in FF, and I should have said this (but
Chrome is our target browser since it is the one used by the schools.)

The default synth setting is what we are using since we adjusted nothing
after installation. It is Windows OneVoice with the voice Microsoft David.
I tries the other two OneVoice voice options; the pronunciation issue
remained. So then I changed the synth setting to Microsoft Speech API v. 5,
using the Microsoft Dave voice, and now it reads "x cubed" as expected!

Thank you for the breadcrumbs leading me to the information I needed most,
which was essentially confirmation that the math is accessible, and the
reading issue here lies with NVDA specifications that need tweaking.

Very grateful!

Joy

On Fri, Aug 19, 2022, 1:50 PM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Fri, Aug 19, 2022 at 01:42 PM, Rui Fontes wrote:

To you "eekup" seems an english message?

For me it is not an english message...

-
Which is precisely the point and the problem. It's isolated to cubed
variables, and one of them, the X one, is at least far closer to what it
should be than the Y one is.

All other instances referenced make it crystal clear that the announcement
is both correct, and in English.

I don't know how that could possibly have been clearer from the initial
problem statement, message #98716
<https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda/message/98716>. This is one of the
best-written complex problem statements I've ever had the privilege to read
on this group.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

*The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his
ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.*

~ Vance Packard

Sounds incredibly complicated! I hate to say this, but now I have another
problem! I've been trying it out on my partner's computer and it worked for
a while, but while playing Pyramid, I needed to bring up a new deal. Neither
Enter nor Space would work to do this, then, subsequently, NVDA stopped
reading any card buttons with arrows at all. Could this be a setting within
NVDA that needs to change, or a bug within the game app -- which, I know is
outside of the scope of this list. I just thought the NVDA part would be
worth asking.

On 20 Aug 2022, at 3:09 am, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:


Hi Iris, You're welcome.

Yes, it wasn't until recently that Microsoft made improvements to
Solitaire Collection in terms of accessibility. Back in say, 2015 (when
Windows 10 made its debut), cards and card decks were not labeled
properly; rather, they were labeled using a UIA (UI Automation) facility
that I haven't even thought of, something Narrator did support then (that
facility was called "localized control type", a text representing how
screen readers should report what the control is to users but localized
for various languages; in Solitaire Collection, cards and card decks were
"shown" (presented to screen readers) as an unknown control with the
actual card suit and rank seen as a distinct control type, localized to
various languages, including, surprisingly enough, United States English;
how this is even possible is way beyond the scope of this forum as it
touches multilingual user interface). This changed a few weeks ago with
the release of Solitaire Collection 4.13, with cards and card decks having
actual labels in a form that NVDA can better understand (technical: UIA
name property; the internals of this is again beyond the scope of this
forum as we need to go into geeky side of UIA support from NVDA).

Although I don't have extensive knowledge of parts of UI Automation and
deeper parts of NVDA as several members here, you can count me in as a
resident NVDA developer (or used to be as my immediate occupation is a
university instructor and a graduate student). And no, my contributions
are not as widely applied as say, Tyler Spivey's.

Cheers,

Joseph

On 20 Aug 2022, at 3:09 am, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:



Hi Iris, You're welcome.

Yes, it wasn't until recently that Microsoft made improvements to Solitaire Collection in terms of accessibility. Back in say, 2015 (when Windows 10 made its debut), cards and card decks were not labeled properly; rather, they were labeled using a UIA (UI Automation) facility that I haven't even thought of, something Narrator did support then (that facility was called "localized control type", a text representing how screen readers should report what the control is to users but localized for various languages; in Solitaire Collection, cards and card decks were "shown" (presented to screen readers) as an unknown control with the actual card suit and rank seen as a distinct control type, localized to various languages, including, surprisingly enough, United States English; how this is even possible is way beyond the scope of this forum as it touches multilingual user interface). This changed a few weeks ago with the release of Solitaire Collection 4.13, with cards and card decks having actual labels in a form that NVDA can better understand (technical: UIA name property; the internals of this is again beyond the scope of this forum as we need to go into geeky side of UIA support from NVDA).

Although I don't have extensive knowledge of parts of UI Automation and deeper parts of NVDA as several members here, you can count me in as a resident NVDA developer (or used to be as my immediate occupation is a university instructor and a graduate student). And no, my contributions are not as widely applied as say, Tyler Spivey's.

Cheers,

Joseph

Hi all,

I know you can press F6 a few times to get to the Status bar. Does NVDA
also have a keystroke combination to reveal it like JAWS has Insert
Page Down?

Thanks,

David

Brian,

Good question.  What I believe is happening, is when you look at say the sentence ending exclamation mark, what NVDA reads is the following block of text:

! sentence ending; Replacement: bang; Level: all; Preserve: always

Depending on your punctuation settings, it is reading the semi-colons (;) and colons (:), between each element.  Which stands out because you aren't expecting them.  I don't recall noticing it earlier - when you say you noticed it in 2022.2, do you recall it NOT being there earlier?

It might be worth raising an issue for.

Quenti.n

On Fri, Aug 19, 2022 at 2:12 PM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

These are the instructions I've written for editing pronunciations for symbols/punctuation:
---------------

1. Hit NVDA + N, P, P [NVDA Menu, Preferences, Punctuation/Symbol Pronunciation]

2. In the filter box, either enter the character for which you wish to change the replacement OR the replacement phrase you no longer wish to have used.  It's often more efficient to enter the replacement phrase (e.g., tick, bang) than the character, as all instances of where that replacement is used will come up in the Symbols section, which is where you find entries to make changes.

3. Hit TAB once to land in the first returned result in the symbols list to double check that it's one you wish to change.  If it is, then . . .

4. Hit ALT + R to be thrown directly to the Replacement Edit box.  Change the replacement to whatever you wish for it to be.

5. Hit SHIFT + TAB to be thrown back to the Symbol list, you will be on the symbol you last changed the replacement for.  Hit down arrow to advance to the next returned symbol in the list.  If it's one you wish to change, jump back to Step 3.

6. Once you have done Steps 3 through 5 for all symbols for which you wish to change the replacement, then navigate to the OK button for the dialog and activate it.

7. You're done with symbol editing.

 

NOTE:  You are most likely to want to edit the replacement for the "naked" character.  For example, if you wish single quotation marks to be announced as "single quote," then once you've entered "tick" in the Filter by edit box, once you tab to the Symbols list down arrow until you hit the solitary/naked instance of the single quote character, as opposed to the one for in-word, or left, or right.

---------------

When I do this in NVDA 2022.2, whether I Filter by individual single quote character for tick or the word tick, the actual symbol is never announced when I jump to the Symbol list in Step 2 the first instance is announced as "in dash word semi," even though what can be seen visually is the phrase "in-word" followed by space followed by the single quote character.  The same is true when "bang" is used as the filter by criteria.

This is definitely not consistent across all characters, most of which first announce the character, followed by semi, followed by replacement then the actual replacement word(s) followed by semi, etc.

What are others getting if they enter either "tick" or "bang" in the Filter by box, then start exploring the Symbols returned in the Symbols list?  I double checked my Default dictionary and cannot see anything I've done there that should cause this issue.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Web: www.nvaccess.org 

Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/

User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess

Yes when you are writing the word and spell it don't the ' is not heard.  If you read the information back it is heard, but not when you write the word as I'm in this message, but the ' is heard when writing the word I'm.

Dave

On 8/19/2022 3:06 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Fri, Aug 19, 2022 at 02:53 PM, Dave Grossoehme wrote:

The reason I ask this is because as the default don't when you write it is don t. 

-
Did you intend to omit an apostrophe on the last "don't" in the above sentence?  Don't is always written with an apostrophe for the contraction, and that sentence, as written, is suggesting that it should be omitted.  I suspect a typo, but for a topic like this I don't wish to leave anything this critical as an assumption.

Clarification, please.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard

Hi,

To answer Gene's question, see my explanation on column/row header announcement internals.

Come to think of it, does this happen if things are "back to defaults" - not only settings, but with speech dictionary entries removed? You can replicate what I'm talking about iwth a fresh portable NVDA telling NVDA to not copy user settings whatsoever. I mention speech dictionaries as I know that some folks added regular expression entries that can cause NVDA (more precisely, Python) to recognize certain patterns and act differently (not a high probability, but something to investigate).

Cheers,

Joseph

On Fri, Aug 19, 2022 at 02:53 PM, Dave Grossoehme wrote:

The reason I ask this is because as the default don't when you write it is don t. 

-
Did you intend to omit an apostrophe on the last "don't" in the above sentence?  Don't is always written with an apostrophe for the contraction, and that sentence, as written, is suggesting that it should be omitted.  I suspect a typo, but for a topic like this I don't wish to leave anything this critical as an assumption.

Clarification, please.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard