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Re: Future of speech synth add ons

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Its the future of ALL add ons. At present its only those add ons that use their own settings systems or try to integrate them into the nvda ones as extra sheets that tend to fall apart, but when python3.7 or similar is used, the whole code base has to be rewritten to take into account the changes. This will mean most add ons will need this to be done or people will need to stay with whichever the last working nvda they had was.
I imagine this update is needed at some time to allow the code to cope with more modern programming apis and such things, but personally I'd be thinking about really doing a lot of outreach to the users first to find out what the repercussions might be. I know they gather data about who is using the nvda software, but they need to look at which add ons are in use as well in my view.
Programmers always want to be the best they can be, but sadly the users want stability, which sometimes does not mean the two are compatible. This happened when xp was dropped of course but this looks to me like a major problem unless many of the popularly used add ons are integrated into the code base

Brian
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Supanut Leepaisomboon" <supanut2000@outlook.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2018 3:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Future of speech synth add ons


Perhaps someone needs to notify both Tifflotecnia and Codefactory about the pending change in NVDA (if this hasn't been done already), so they can update their add ons to support NVDA 2018.3.


Re: Future of speech synth add ons

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I'd not use the Eloquence old add on as its bugged to hell and illegal.

Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "kelby carlson" <kelbycarlson@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2018 3:37 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Future of speech synth add ons


I use an older Eloquence ad-on and a couple other synths that I would hate to lose. Will definitely need to back everything up.
On Aug 25, 2018, at 10:25 PM, Supanut Leepaisomboon <supanut2000@outlook.com> wrote:

Since NVDA 2018.3 will adopt WxPython 4 and thus rendering older add ons incompatible, I wonder does this means that current speech synth add ons E.G those from Codefactory and Tifflotecnia needs to be updated in order to maintain compatibility?
If so, then I'm really worried since I use the Vocalizer from Tifflotecnia and that add on hasn't receive major updates for so long. I can't say about the one from Codefactory as I didn't use that version but I would be worried too if it hasn't receive major updates in a while.


Re: Future of speech synth add ons

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Well I have been using the alpha snaps for some time now and even the old pico synth still works, so unless they are doing something really advanced, it will probably still work. However I think when Python 3 comes along we could have some major issues with most add ons as from reading the mail so to speak it seems that the language syntax and conventions have changed in a number of key places. I'm very surprised the language writers did not spend more time looking at compatibility though shince I doubt nvda will be the only software affected. A part of Dropbox seems to be written in Python as well.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Supanut Leepaisomboon" <supanut2000@outlook.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2018 3:25 AM
Subject: [nvda] Future of speech synth add ons


Since NVDA 2018.3 will adopt WxPython 4 and thus rendering older add ons incompatible, I wonder does this means that current speech synth add ons E.G those from Codefactory and Tifflotecnia needs to be updated in order to maintain compatibility?
If so, then I'm really worried since I use the Vocalizer from Tifflotecnia and that add on hasn't receive major updates for so long. I can't say about the one from Codefactory as I didn't use that version but I would be worried too if it hasn't receive major updates in a while.


Re: the latest version of add on updater

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Well the reason its in the dev section is that its not stable.
If you run the beta version of nvda, then the current add on updater works fine, if its the stable nvda, its seems not to, but its maybe fixed or about to be.
This is why its in the development section after all!
Bryan

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Bobby Vinton" <vinton.bobby5277@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2018 2:24 AM
Subject: [nvda] the latest version of add on updater


Hay I am using nvda latest version. I can't find a stable version of the add on updater for nvda. Can you please tell me how to get stable version because I am running the development version.



Re: Screen Reader under DOS

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

The point is that as far as I am aware nobody built in any kind of support for sound cards for a dos machine, only external synths. This was due to the slower processors and lack of memory, remember only 640k of ram was available, most higher amounts were paged into the standard address space like in the old home computers of the 80s did to get more memory. Doing this involved a lot of code to operate the hardware paging and allow access of code into pages which normally shared the same address space, slowing things down a lot due to having to store the registers and stacks and then do the switch etc. It was a nightmare. Nurse the screens!

Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "The Wolf" <hank.smith966@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2018 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Reader under DOS


but don't you still need to run a screen reader for dos box?

I haven't used dos in so long things may have changed

On 8/25/2018 10:30 PM, Isaac wrote:
probably have to use vocalizer for dos or jaws for dos. Or you could run a windows machine with dos box.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Tyler Spivey" <tspivey@pcdesk.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2018 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Reader under DOS


No.
On 8/25/2018 5:06 PM, Howard Traxler wrote:
I'm going to build a DOS machine and will, of course, need it to talk
and possibly display in Braille. I'm wondering if NVDA will run under
DOS? I think I'll probably use DOS version 6.22. If not, I do have
others here that will run.




.
--
check out my song on youtube
https://youtu.be/YeWgx2LRu7Y



Re: Screen Reader under DOS

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Its probably going to be sold o the British Government its about their level of IT understanding. :-)
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Antony Stone" <antony.stone@nvda.open.source.it>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2018 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Reader under DOS


As others have said, no way will NVDA run without Windows, but I'm curious
about why you want to build a DOS machine anyway?

What do you plan to do with it?

Antony.

On Sunday 26 August 2018 at 02:06:06, Howard Traxler wrote:

I'm going to build a DOS machine and will, of course, need it to talk and
possibly display in Braille. I'm wondering if NVDA will run under DOS? I
think I'll probably use DOS version 6.22. If not, I do have others here
that will run.

Thanks.
Howard
--
"640 kilobytes (of RAM) should be enough for anybody."

- Bill Gates

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: Screen Reader under DOS

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Actually, if you really mean dos and not an emulated dos then no. As nvda requires the resources of the windows nt shell.

However Hal for dos was still available but you do need a hardware synth for it as I do not know of any sound card with dos drivers that such old code might be able to use. Could one ask what the point of this retro system might be. Its not April 1st yet?
Maybe you need Linux.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Howard Traxler" <howard@traxlerenterprises.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2018 1:06 AM
Subject: [nvda] Screen Reader under DOS


I'm going to build a DOS machine and will, of course, need it to talk and possibly display in Braille. I'm wondering if NVDA will run under DOS? I think I'll probably use DOS version 6.22. If not, I do have others here that will run.

Thanks.
Howard


Re: Screen Reader under DOS

Felix G.
 

Hi!
DosBox itself will not speak unless you run a DOS screen reader inside
of it. A complete setup including three DOS screen readers can be
downloaded from:
http://batsupport.com/unsupported/dosbox/
It was created to be able to run old games, so if that's your idea,
this is the way to go.
Best,
Felix
Am So., 26. Aug. 2018 um 10:27 Uhr schrieb The Wolf <hank.smith966@gmail.com>:


but don't you still need to run a screen reader for dos box?

I haven't used dos in so long things may have changed

On 8/25/2018 10:30 PM, Isaac wrote:
probably have to use vocalizer for dos or jaws for dos. Or you could
run a windows machine with dos box.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Tyler Spivey" <tspivey@pcdesk.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2018 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Reader under DOS


No.
On 8/25/2018 5:06 PM, Howard Traxler wrote:
I'm going to build a DOS machine and will, of course, need it to talk
and possibly display in Braille. I'm wondering if NVDA will run under
DOS? I think I'll probably use DOS version 6.22. If not, I do have
others here that will run.





.
--
check out my song on youtube
https://youtu.be/YeWgx2LRu7Y




Re: Screen Reader under DOS

Angelo Sonnesso
 

You could always use a copy of the ASAP screen reader.

73 N2DYN Angelo

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Antony Stone
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2018 4:21 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Reader under DOS

As others have said, no way will NVDA run without Windows, but I'm curious
about why you want to build a DOS machine anyway?

What do you plan to do with it?

Antony.

On Sunday 26 August 2018 at 02:06:06, Howard Traxler wrote:

I'm going to build a DOS machine and will, of course, need it to talk
and possibly display in Braille. I'm wondering if NVDA will run under
DOS? I think I'll probably use DOS version 6.22. If not, I do have
others here that will run.

Thanks.
Howard
--
"640 kilobytes (of RAM) should be enough for anybody."

- Bill Gates

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC
me.


Re: Screen Reader under DOS

 

but don't you still need to run a screen reader for dos box?

I haven't used dos in so long things may have changed

On 8/25/2018 10:30 PM, Isaac wrote:
probably have to use vocalizer for dos or jaws for dos.  Or you could run a windows machine with dos box.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Tyler Spivey" <tspivey@pcdesk.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2018 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Reader under DOS


No.
On 8/25/2018 5:06 PM, Howard Traxler wrote:
I'm going to build a DOS machine and will, of course, need it to talk
and possibly display in Braille. I'm wondering if NVDA will run under
DOS? I think I'll probably use DOS version 6.22. If not, I do have
others here that will run.




.
--
check out my song on youtube
https://youtu.be/YeWgx2LRu7Y


Re: Screen Reader under DOS

Antony Stone
 

As others have said, no way will NVDA run without Windows, but I'm curious
about why you want to build a DOS machine anyway?

What do you plan to do with it?

Antony.

On Sunday 26 August 2018 at 02:06:06, Howard Traxler wrote:

I'm going to build a DOS machine and will, of course, need it to talk and
possibly display in Braille. I'm wondering if NVDA will run under DOS? I
think I'll probably use DOS version 6.22. If not, I do have others here
that will run.

Thanks.
Howard
--
"640 kilobytes (of RAM) should be enough for anybody."

- Bill Gates

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: Screen Reader under DOS

Sky Mundell
 

Actually you got the name wrong. Its name is Vocal-eyes, not Vocalizer

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Isaac
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2018 10:31 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Reader under DOS

probably have to use vocalizer for dos or jaws for dos. Or you could run a
windows machine with dos box.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tyler Spivey" <tspivey@pcdesk.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2018 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Reader under DOS


No.
On 8/25/2018 5:06 PM, Howard Traxler wrote:
I'm going to build a DOS machine and will, of course, need it to talk
and possibly display in Braille. I'm wondering if NVDA will run under
DOS? I think I'll probably use DOS version 6.22. If not, I do have
others here that will run.


Re: Screen Reader under DOS

Isaac <bigikemusic@...>
 

probably have to use vocalizer for dos or jaws for dos. Or you could run a windows machine with dos box.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tyler Spivey" <tspivey@pcdesk.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2018 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Reader under DOS


No.
On 8/25/2018 5:06 PM, Howard Traxler wrote:
I'm going to build a DOS machine and will, of course, need it to talk
and possibly display in Braille. I'm wondering if NVDA will run under
DOS? I think I'll probably use DOS version 6.22. If not, I do have
others here that will run.


Re: the latest version of add on updater

 

Hi,
Travis is correct: I intend to not release a stable version of this add-on, as lessons learned through this add-on will be applied to a feature which I'm writing for NVDA.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kwork
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2018 6:52 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] the latest version of add on updater

Simple answer: There is no stable version. It is a prototype as the website says. If you want a stable version only, uninstall it and pretend it does not exist. As I believe it's supposed to be integrated into NVDA core at some point, it'll probably never be released as a "stable" version. Joseph Lee can correct us if I'm wrong.

Travis

On 8/25/2018 6:24 PM, Bobby Vinton wrote:
Hay I am using nvda latest version. I can't find a stable version of
the add on updater for nvda. Can you please tell me how to get stable
version because I am running the development version.





Re: regular expression and speech dic

 

Glad to hear you've got it solved.

That second capture group is interesting, that's for sure.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The psychology of adultery has been falsified by conventional morals, which assume, in monogamous countries, that attraction to one person cannot co-exist with a serious affection for another.  Everybody knows that this is untrue. . .

           ~ Bertrand Russell

 

 


Re: regular expression and speech dic

Mr. Wong Chi Wai, William <cwwong.pro@...>
 

I finally got it working like this:
(lv)([0-9\u4e00-\u9fa5]+|[^a-zA-Z])

Brian Vogel 於 26/8/2018 11:46 寫道:

William,

        Everything's good, your command of English is far, far, far, far [. . .] better than my command of Chinese.

        If the last regular expression I offered does not catch what you need it to catch and/or the substitution does not break it into the appropriate units, what would be best next is to have examples of what it did not capture and how those examples should be split apart into words to be fed to the synthesizer.  I will always presume that "lv" is meant to be replaced with the English word "level."
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The psychology of adultery has been falsified by conventional morals, which assume, in monogamous countries, that attraction to one person cannot co-exist with a serious affection for another.  Everybody knows that this is untrue. . .

           ~ Bertrand Russell

 

 



Re: regular expression and speech dic

 

William,

        Everything's good, your command of English is far, far, far, far [. . .] better than my command of Chinese.

        If the last regular expression I offered does not catch what you need it to catch and/or the substitution does not break it into the appropriate units, what would be best next is to have examples of what it did not capture and how those examples should be split apart into words to be fed to the synthesizer.  I will always presume that "lv" is meant to be replaced with the English word "level."
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The psychology of adultery has been falsified by conventional morals, which assume, in monogamous countries, that attraction to one person cannot co-exist with a serious affection for another.  Everybody knows that this is untrue. . .

           ~ Bertrand Russell

 

 


Re: regular expression and speech dic

Mr. Wong Chi Wai, William <cwwong.pro@...>
 

Brian
Thanks.
Well, this is how Chinese work. Chinese normally don't have spaces between words. Unlike English there are lots of spaces, Chinese almost have no spaces.

For the suggestions what I have given, mainly I want to capture all the "lv" that is alone from other English, i.e. not preceded or followed by any other English word; and at the same time capture those "lv" that is in between Chinese word, immediately before numbers, that is what the three examples I meant. Sorry for the lack of explaination in the previous email.


 
Brian Vogel 於 25/8/2018 21:18 寫道:

William,

I'm not asking for a phonetic transcription, but a "how would you like those broken apart" description for how the three examples you provided, which follow, should be read (with my guesses afterward):

你的lv?                 你的 level  (and is that question mark the end of a sentence)
我的lv是12           我的 level  是 12
我maxlv了            我 max level 了

This gets very tricky if the first example is the end of a sentence while the others are not.  Also, do you happen to know if the unicode for the entire Chinese character set is sequential, like the unicode for, say, a-z or 0-9 is?

In that last example, would it only be "max" and "min" in the three character positions before lv when used?

The lack of the use of whitespace in these forms makes them trickier to accurately snag and parse apart for substitution for the voice synthesizer.  They look like something that would be unpronouncable without being broken into several units.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    A little kindness from person to person is better than a vast love for all humankind.

           ~ Richard Dehmel

 

 



Re: Future of speech synth add ons

 

Oh, I forgot to mention in my first post that those using Codefactory's Sapi version of their synth probably won't be affected. Thanks for bringing that up.
If Tifflotecnia's add on stops working with future NVDA releases and no update has been released, I may have to consider either buying a Sapi version of Vocalizer from Codefactory, or switching to Windows OneCore (the Windows OneCore does include a Thai voice now, at least).


Re: Future of speech synth add ons

Sky Mundell
 

Fortunately, I use a SAPI 5 version of Eloquence from Kodefactory         

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of kelby carlson
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2018 7:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Future of speech synth add ons

 

I use an older Eloquence ad-on and a couple other synths that I would hate to lose. Will definitely need to back everything up.


On Aug 25, 2018, at 10:25 PM, Supanut Leepaisomboon <supanut2000@...> wrote:

Since NVDA 2018.3 will adopt WxPython 4 and thus rendering older add ons incompatible, I wonder does this means that current speech synth add ons E.G those from Codefactory and Tifflotecnia needs to be updated in order to maintain compatibility?
If so, then I'm really worried since I use the Vocalizer from Tifflotecnia and that add on hasn't receive major updates for so long. I can't say about the one from Codefactory as I didn't use that version but I would be worried too if it hasn't receive major updates in a while.