Date   

Re: Portable copy

 

On Tue, Aug 9, 2022 at 12:08 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
As installed and portable copies are identical, portable copies DO support updating to a newer version of themselves.
-
This being the case, is there a way to create a .bat file with a command line invocation of NVDA that would tell it not to check for updates.  I haven't needed to create archival portables for some time, but when I do I don't even want them to ask me about updating them.  The main reason, besides needing NVDA briefly on a machine where I choose not to install it, that I create portable copies is to "freeze that version in time."
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard


Re: Portable copy

 

Hi all,

To clarify a few points:

  1. The nature of portable copy of NVDA: it is identical in shape and form to the installed copy of NVDA except for two things: it does not have special privileges (no audio ducking, for instance), and user configuration folder is stored in the same location as the portable copy directory. As installed and portable copies are identical, portable copies DO support updating to a newer version of themselves.
  2. Creating versus updating portable copies: you can create a portable copy of NVDA in three ways: when launching NVDA installer, NVDA menu/Tools/Create portable copy option from installed NVDA, or via command-line. These options do provide an option to start the just-created portable NVDA after creating it. This is the method Brian is talking about, whereas Gene and I are talking about updating portable NVDA once created.
  3. Answering Howard: yes, you can create a portable NVDA anywhere (removable media and internal storage included) except locations where you must be granted admin privileges and on optical media.

While I have an alpha build of NVDA installed on my computer (for development and testing reasons), I have portable versions of beta and stable builds, as well as an alpha build containing add-ons registered on community add-ons website to test add-on compatibility. I do run and update portable copies from time to time, more so for beta builds whenever new betas or release candidates are released. I keep a stable version handy to replicate stable version experiences and to test various add-ons.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: Portable copy

Gene
 

I had thought the procedure is the same but I haven't carefully compared.  I tend not to update portable versions, though I have.  I keep an installed version current so I can test problems users discuss and I may want to play with a new feature.  But I generally leave portable versions as they are.  They do what I want so I leave them alone.

Gene

On 9/2022 10:08 AM, Gene via groups.io wrote:

I'm saying that from the user's point of view, updating is the same.  I haven't seen anything about what you are saying, if I understand it correctly.  You appear to be saying that when you update a portable version of a program, an entirely new version of the program is placed on the machine and when you update an installed version, new files are added so technically, the procedure is the same.  But from the standpoint of the user, you follow the same procedure to update.

Gene

On 8/9/2022 9:39 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Tue, Aug 9, 2022 at 10:33 AM, Gene wrote:
the program will update just as it does wherever it is located.
-
You need to explain yourself further on this one.

When I (and most computer people) use the term update it refers to the program itself, not user settings that may be associated with it, whether it's a portable copy or installed.

Portable copies do not update.  Fresh copies are created.  You can ask NVDA to create a new portable copy of another version in the same place, but you have to ask it to do that, whether through the NVDA installer or from the Create Portable Copy function in NVDA Tools.  This is in contrast to how the installed copy will auto-update where all you do is confirm that this is what you want to allow.

The above is not hair splitting, it's a fundamental difference.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard




Re: Portable copy

Gene
 

I'm saying that from the user's point of view, updating is the same.  I haven't seen anything about what you are saying, if I understand it correctly.  You appear to be saying that when you update a portable version of a program, an entirely new version of the program is placed on the machine and when you update an installed version, new files are added so technically, the procedure is the same.  But from the standpoint of the user, you follow the same procedure to update.

Gene

On 8/9/2022 9:39 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Tue, Aug 9, 2022 at 10:33 AM, Gene wrote:
the program will update just as it does wherever it is located.
-
You need to explain yourself further on this one.

When I (and most computer people) use the term update it refers to the program itself, not user settings that may be associated with it, whether it's a portable copy or installed.

Portable copies do not update.  Fresh copies are created.  You can ask NVDA to create a new portable copy of another version in the same place, but you have to ask it to do that, whether through the NVDA installer or from the Create Portable Copy function in NVDA Tools.  This is in contrast to how the installed copy will auto-update where all you do is confirm that this is what you want to allow.

The above is not hair splitting, it's a fundamental difference.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard



Re: Experimenting with NVDA to answer ranking questions

Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

Good idea, thanks!

 

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of tim
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2022 1:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Experimenting with NVDA to answer ranking questions

 

Try anything on https://www.surveymonkey.com/welcome/sem/?program=7013A000000mweBQAQ&utm_bu=CR&utm_campaign=71700000059189136&utm_adgroup=58700005812074793&utm_content=43700053053420456&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=adwords&utm_term=p53053420456&utm_kxconfid=s4bvpi0ju&language=&test=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIwrzz8-W5-QIV5xPUAR0yLgruEAAYASAAEgJGTfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

That is where the majority of the surveys come from for the blind and they do a good job.

They even have samples.

 

On 8/8/2022 5:28 PM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote:

Hello, all,

 

Somebody replied this evening saying that they answer ranking question frequently with no problem. Unfortunately, I lost the contact.

 

If you find that ranking questions give you no problem, would you like to help me by letting me have a link to a recent form that worked for you? That is just what I need in order to assist by learning colleagues.

 

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 

Original email earlier today:

I have recently discovered how to answer a ranking question in a survey form. I have colleagues with a visual impairment who are also users of NVDA and would like to practice on a sample of such a question. I have approached Microsoft without success. They say that they cannot provide a sample even though I clearly do not need an actual live survey.

 

A marketing survey would be a possible option. In such a survey the questions can be treated as live without causing a problem to the survey owner such as a shopping survey.

 

All suggestions welcome!

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 

From: nvd

 

Virus-free.www.avast.com


Re: Portable copy

 

On Tue, Aug 9, 2022 at 10:58 AM, Gene wrote:
Portable programs can and generally do update just as nonportable programs do.
-
We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.  I really don't have the time or willingness to delve into the differences any further than what I have.

The method is different, even if slightly different.  And that difference matters.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard


Re: Portable copy

Gene
 

I should add that I'm not sure what you are saying about the portable version and updates.  You can set it not to look for updates, just as you can the installed version.  Whether it updates is determined by you, just the same as you determine whether an installed version updates. 

As I said, I'm not sure what you are saying.  I'm saying that the update procedure is the same.

Gene

On 8/9/2022 9:34 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:

It's possible to make and run a portable copy of NVDA (or any other program that has a portable variant) from any media of your choosing.

Although portable variants are intended to be, well, portable the two things that determine that they truly are:
1. They're placed on media that can be carried with you, e.g., a thumb drive, SD card, external HDD.
2. They do not install, and by that I mean in the literal sense.  Installed programs make entries in the Windows Registry and also often either add libraries of their own into the existing collection or rely on libraries from it.  Portable variants do neither of those things and everything they need is self-contained in the folder structure created.

The NVDA installer (whether a fresh one downloaded from NVAccess, or the built-in auto update function) does not update portable copies.  If you want updated portable copies you need to have NVDA make new ones for you.

So, yes, you can create a folder such as C:\Portable_Programs\NVDA and create a portable copy of NVDA there, and it will remain there, and can be run from there, and it will never be updated unless you update it.  You can also, at the same time, have an active installed version of NVDA on the same machine.  Some people create portable copies of whatever version of NVDA it is that they currently have running, and do so in a dedicated folder on their hard drives, immediately prior to updating to a new version as an "insurance policy" against possible issues.

By the way, once you have a portable copy on anything, the root folder can be copied over to as many other places as you might wish, and you have additional portable copies since all pieces needed to run a portable copy are contained in the folder structure.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard



Re: Portable copy

Gene
 

Portable programs can and generally do update just as nonportable programs do.

If a portable version of NVDA updates, it follows the same procedure as the installed version except that you will be told that a portable version is being created and it will be installed where the old portable version is.

Gene
On 8/9/2022 9:34 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:

It's possible to make and run

a portable copy of NVDA (or any other program that has a portable variant) from any media of your choosing.

Although portable variants are intended to be, well, portable the two things that determine that they truly are:
1. They're placed on media that can be carried with you, e.g., a thumb drive, SD card, external HDD.
2. They do not install, and by that I mean in the literal sense.  Installed programs make entries in the Windows Registry and also often either add libraries of their own into the existing collection or rely on libraries from it.  Portable variants do neither of those things and everything they need is self-contained in the folder structure created.

The NVDA installer (whether a fresh one downloaded from NVAccess, or the built-in auto update function) does not update portable copies.  If you want updated portable copies you need to have NVDA make new ones for you.

So, yes, you can create a folder such as C:\Portable_Programs\NVDA and create a portable copy of NVDA there, and it will remain there, and can be run from there, and it will never be updated unless you update it.  You can also, at the same time, have an active installed version of NVDA on the same machine.  Some people create portable copies of whatever version of NVDA it is that they currently have running, and do so in a dedicated folder on their hard drives, immediately prior to updating to a new version as an "insurance policy" against possible issues.

By the way, once you have a portable copy on anything, the root folder can be copied over to as many other places as you might wish, and you have additional portable copies since all pieces needed to run a portable copy are contained in the folder structure.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard



locked Re: OneCore Voices Uninstalling themselves

 

This topic will be locked after this post.  The issue that started it, while related to synth voices, is clearly NOT an NVDA-related issue.  NVDA does not ever remove OneCore voices.  These are controlled at the level of Windows, as is the whole process of acquiring and installing them.  If in-depth discussion about this particular issue is desired, the Windows Access with Screen Readers Group is the appropriate venue:

Group Archive:  https://winaccess.groups.io/g/winaccess/topics

Subscribe: winaccess+subscribe@winaccess.groups.io

Post: winaccess@winaccess.groups.io

Unsubscribe: winaccess+unsubscribe@winaccess.groups.io

Group Owner: winaccess+owner@winaccess.groups.io

Help: winaccess+help@winaccess.groups.io

----

Whenever any inexplicable issue presents itself in Windows “out of the blue” and with seemingly no reason, these are the two things I try first, in order:

1. Using DISM (Deployment Imaging Servicing and Management) and SFC (System File Checker) to Repair Windows 8.1, 10 & 11

2. Performing a Windows 10 or 11 Repair Install or Feature Update Using the Windows ISO file

If #1 fixes the issue, #2 is unnecessary.
-----

Topic Locked.

--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard


locked Re: OneCore Voices Uninstalling themselves

 

On Tue, Aug 9, 2022 at 05:34 AM, Brian's Mail list account wrote:
I do have it on a laptop, but regularly find settings have changed after an update like the views of files and folders and the security settings.
-
Then something is wrong on that machine.

In the early days of Windows 10, it was routine, and insanity-making, how updates, and particularly Feature Updates, would change user settings without any sort of warning, not even a message during the install process that some settings might change.  That has not been the case literally for years now.  I cannot recall the last time I've witnessed a change in user settings with a Windows 10 update.  If you're having stuff like this happen "regularly" then something is wrong, and it is not by any means characteristic of how Windows 10 usually works.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard


Re: Portable copy

 

On Tue, Aug 9, 2022 at 10:33 AM, Gene wrote:
the program will update just as it does wherever it is located.
-
You need to explain yourself further on this one.

When I (and most computer people) use the term update it refers to the program itself, not user settings that may be associated with it, whether it's a portable copy or installed.

Portable copies do not update.  Fresh copies are created.  You can ask NVDA to create a new portable copy of another version in the same place, but you have to ask it to do that, whether through the NVDA installer or from the Create Portable Copy function in NVDA Tools.  This is in contrast to how the installed copy will auto-update where all you do is confirm that this is what you want to allow.

The above is not hair splitting, it's a fundamental difference.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard


Re: Portable copy

 

It's possible to make and run a portable copy of NVDA (or any other program that has a portable variant) from any media of your choosing.

Although portable variants are intended to be, well, portable the two things that determine that they truly are:
1. They're placed on media that can be carried with you, e.g., a thumb drive, SD card, external HDD.
2. They do not install, and by that I mean in the literal sense.  Installed programs make entries in the Windows Registry and also often either add libraries of their own into the existing collection or rely on libraries from it.  Portable variants do neither of those things and everything they need is self-contained in the folder structure created.

The NVDA installer (whether a fresh one downloaded from NVAccess, or the built-in auto update function) does not update portable copies.  If you want updated portable copies you need to have NVDA make new ones for you.

So, yes, you can create a folder such as C:\Portable_Programs\NVDA and create a portable copy of NVDA there, and it will remain there, and can be run from there, and it will never be updated unless you update it.  You can also, at the same time, have an active installed version of NVDA on the same machine.  Some people create portable copies of whatever version of NVDA it is that they currently have running, and do so in a dedicated folder on their hard drives, immediately prior to updating to a new version as an "insurance policy" against possible issues.

By the way, once you have a portable copy on anything, the root folder can be copied over to as many other places as you might wish, and you have additional portable copies since all pieces needed to run a portable copy are contained in the folder structure.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard


Re: Portable copy

Gene
 

You can run a copy of NVDA portable from anything, a removable external drive, a thumb drive, on your internal hard drive, anywhere from which your computer can see and run the program.  Of course, you shouldn't run it from a cdrom because you wouldn't be able to update it, but I suppose it could even run from one, if you never make any changes, which would all be immediately lost when the program closed.

the program will update just as it does wherever it is located.

Gene

On 8/9/2022 9:20 AM, Howard Traxler wrote:

Is it possible to run a portable copy of NVDA from a folder on a hard drive?  When it wants to update, will it update the portable copy; wherever it might be located?  Thanks

<HT>









Re: Beeps are back in Thunderbird!

Gene
 

You win some, you loose some.  The progress beeps are back but NVDA no longer can see the status line.

Gene

On 8/9/2022 9:19 AM, Roger Stewart wrote:

The progress bar is now beeping as it should since I updated to the latest version.  The past 2 versions this did not work.  Guess they changed something so NVDA can see the progress bar while receiving messages.


Roger









Portable copy

Howard Traxler
 

Is it possible to run a portable copy of NVDA from a folder on a hard drive?  When it wants to update, will it update the portable copy; wherever it might be located?  Thanks

<HT>


Beeps are back in Thunderbird!

Roger Stewart
 

The progress bar is now beeping as it should since I updated to the latest version.  The past 2 versions this did not work.  Guess they changed something so NVDA can see the progress bar while receiving messages.


Roger


locked Re: OneCore Voices Uninstalling themselves

Gene
 

You have a lot of unexpected minor behavior problems on your computers.  As I recall, you use a utility that changes the view used by Windows in places.  I'm not sure where.  But perhaps the settings changes may be caused by that utility.  Its better just to learn the small changes in the format, such as those in the start menu and use the new system as it is. 

On switching from Windows 7 to Windows 10, I looked at the start menu, and very quickly found how to get to the list of applications.  If I open the start menu and tab twice, I am in the list.

I don't like introducing utilities that change the intended display of items.  I don't know if or how such utilities may have unexpected results and the changes to the view are minor in general.

Gene



On 8/9/2022 4:34 AM, Brian's Mail list account via groups.io wrote:

Well in Windows 10, I've seen this quite a bit, but usually only on third party software. I don't know but its one reason why on this working everyday machine I have shunned Windows 10.

I do have it on a laptop, but regularly find settings have changed after an update like the views of files and folders and the security settings.
Brian



locked Re: OneCore Voices Uninstalling themselves

Gene
 

They have disappeared in the past.  I think there is some sort of minor problem on the system but I have no idea what it is.  I suspect they are gone but rebooting before doing other things is a good idea.

Gene

On 8/9/2022 2:45 AM, Brian's Mail list account via groups.io wrote:

Just a thought, as obviously I do not have a need for Japanese, but could there have been a windows update which has caused them to disappear?
Brian



locked Re: OneCore Voices Uninstalling themselves

Gene
 

Did you try exiting NVDA and running it again?  I don't know if that would help, of course, but that is the first thing to try when odd problems develop regarding NVDA.

The second, if that doesn't help, is to reboot.  Then, its time to do other things, if necessary.

Gene

On 8/9/2022 2:35 AM, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:

Just checked, and all the voices are visible within Narrator when I go to install more, but NVDA doesn't see them when I switch to 1Core voices in the Speech Settings. What's going on?

On 9/08/2022 5:17 pm, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:
A couple weeks ago, I installed the OneCore voices for Japanese and a few others, so I could use them in future. I had a bit of trouble getting them to stick around initially, but they seemed to cooperate, not disappearing after restarts. I just went and checked, though, and I'm back to only the voices for US English and Australian English.


Is there a way to stop Windows from removing these voices whenever I look away for too long?













Re: Experimenting with NVDA to answer ranking questions

Gene
 

Those are illustrations of why I say that people should be in browse mode in unfamiliar forms and down arrow through the form.  You may miss information if you just tab in any mode.  The information may be important or not, but either way, you may miss it.

You may see at times, for example, an example of how a field is intended to be filled out, such as a date format.

Gene

On 8/9/2022 2:19 AM, Brian's Mail list account via groups.io wrote:

I get this problem too, the other is that some  forms are inconsistent as to where the button description is, or whether the ranking is high to low or the oteher way around or indeed if the button or description is first. Gets even worse when some are tables and others not. I think there is a lot of education needed for form designers.
Brian


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