1. nvda@nvda.groups.io
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   Date   
Update on Focus Blie driver install

E.T.
 

I have been in contact with Freedom Scientific. They do not have any experience with VMs so I am hoping some of you who operate a Windows 7 VM on a Mac can shed some light on this issue I posted below.

Posted yesterday...
Update on the Focus driver. I installed the Jaws demo which installed the necessary driver when the display was connected to USB. I was able to update the Focus firmware. But NVDA still does not see the Focus and I still cannot get the driver to install. So can't use the display with my Windows VM. Should do fine with the Mac and iOS devices.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
Ancient.Aliens@...
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?
Moderation on Most Open Forums

Brian Vogel
 

Earlier today, the following question was posed:   If the list is monitored by moderators is it not their responsibility to make sure that all posts that contain web links be checked before allowing such posts on the list?

It isn't, and they're not, on virtually any forum you can name.  I don't moderate here, but do elsewhere on Groups.io and on BleepingComputer.com.  The vast majority of group owners and moderators are volunteers, and we have neither the time nor inclination to try to closely monitor the offerings of the membership.

Some will moderate the first post, or first several posts, of anyone joining just to make sure it's a real person and not a bot and that the real person is not a spammer.

If someone finds something problematic then they should report it.  I haven't hit a bad click-through link on any one of the three blind technology forums I participate on in the entire time I've been haunting their cyber halls.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The psychology of adultery has been falsified by conventional morals, which assume, in monogamous countries, that attraction to one person cannot co-exist with a serious affection for another.  Everybody knows that this is untrue. . .

           ~ Bertrand Russell

 

 
Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My Banking Site

Gene
 

It may not be hijacking.  It may be that the message was placed in this thread because the wrong thread was replied to by accident. 
 
As far as the suggestion that all links be approved, that is not possible if, for no other reason, than that lists don't have a provision for requiring messages with links to be approved while allowing those without links to be sent without moderator approval. 
 
I also think that members should be responsible for determining what they do or do not click on.  People should be responsible for what they do.If they are not allowed to be responsible, how will they learn to be responsible and to follow proper safety rules of Internet use for themselves.  Lists are not nannies.  Sometimes, an unfortunate mistake causes someone to really start taking their own safety seriously.  If they aren't following safe practices on lists in terms of their Internet behavior, then they are likely not following safe practices in general. 
 
Since either the wrong thread on this list or perhaps a thread on an entirely different list was intended to be replied to, we can't discuss whatever links are being objected to.  As far as I know, there aren't any objectionable links in this thread.
 
I am discussing my views of this matter but I am not moderating in this case.
 
Gene 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2018 2:40 PM
Subject: Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My Banking Site

    And neither are these responses, including mine. (smiles)

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
    Ancient.Aliens@...
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 9/26/2018 12:38 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
> Sounds like hijacking to me too. That post from Carlos wasn't necessary.
>
> *From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of
> *Ron Canazzi
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 26, 2018 12:00 PM
> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
> *Subject:* Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On
> My Banking Site
>
> Hi Carlos,
>
> Why did you post this item about list moderators in the  thread
> concerning the submit button issue?  Sounds like hijacking to me!
>
> On 9/26/2018 12:37 PM, Carlos wrote:
>
>          Is it not the responsibility of those who read these post to
>     decide if they want to click on unfamiliar web links?
>
>          If the list is monitored by moderators is it not their
>     responsibility to make sure that all posts that contain web links be
>     checked before allowing such posts on the list?
>
>          It should be mandatory that all posts on the list which contain
>     web links be thoroughly checked out before being allowed on the list.
>
>          On more than one occasion posts have gotten on this list which
>     should have been checked out by moderators before having ever been
>     allowed on the list!
>
>          There should be some kind of filtering rules set up to make
>     sure that posts that have web links be kept out until the moderators
>     checked them out.
>
>          List moderators need to look at all the changes that are
>     happening all over the internet to monitor content before it ever
>     gets to anyone's browsers!
>
>          And yes! I know that I will be called into the principal's
>     office for having posted this publicly on the list for everyone to
>     read!  However, we all need to ask the moderators to keep the list
>     as uncluttered as possible!
>
>     On 9/26/2018 8:04 AM, Gene wrote:
>
>         That's largely because of poor training, however.  Not for
>         everything, but for a lot of what people do, you can learn
>         perhaps ten or fifteen commands that are different for a
>         different screen-reader and do a lot of what you could do
>         before.  Most of what people do uses Windows or program
>         commands.  a different screen-reader may use different screen
>         review commands and a different command for read title bar and
>         certain other commands, but a lot of what people do would be the
>         same because a lot of what is done doesn't use screen-reader
>         commands.
>
>         Gene
>
>         ----- Original Message -----
>
>         *From:* Ervin, Glenn <mailto:glenn.ervin@...>
>
>         *Sent:* Wednesday, September 26, 2018 9:43 AM
>
>         *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>
>         *Subject:* Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit
>         Button On My Banking Site
>
>         Although this concept of using multiple screenreaders is okay
>         for those of us who can do that, but if it comes to that as
>         generally accepted practice, then the majority of users are left
>         behind.
>
>         Glenn
>
>         *From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>         <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> *On Behalf Of
>         *Brian Vogel
>         *Sent:* Wednesday, September 26, 2018 8:48 AM
>         *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>         *Subject:* [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit
>         Button On My Banking Site
>
>         On Wed, Sep 26, 2018 at 08:58 AM, Davy Cuppens wrote:
>
>             Simply told, the procedure is unaccessible so cal your bank
>             and tel them.
>
>         Not that I don't think this is a good idea, because it is, but
>         you also have to understand that accessibility will always be,
>         to some extent, a game of catch up.
>
>         Web coding keeps changing at blinding speed, and that's not
>         going to stop.  Sometimes it's a matter of the screen readers
>         catching up to it, and particularly when the reason for doing a
>         certain thing a certain way revolves around increased security.
>
>         It's really generally helpful to check to see if what doesn't
>         work under one screen reader might work under another if you
>         happen to have a system with two or more screen readers
>         available.  That can help to tease out where the issue might lie.
>
>         --
>
>         Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134
>
>         /The psychology of adultery has been falsified by conventional
>         morals, which assume, in monogamous countries, that attraction
>         to one person cannot co-exist with a serious affection for
>         another.  Everybody knows that this is untrue. . ./
>
>                     ~ Bertrand Russell
>
>     --
>
>     Microsoft Windows 10.1803, NVDA 2018.2, Mozilla Firefox/Thunderbird
>
>
>
> --
>
> They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
>
> They ask: "How Happy are You?"
>
> I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
>
>



Re: NVDA remote server refusing to auto start on debian8, any ideas?

Mobeen Iqbal
 

Hi.


Further to my last email containing the log, I tried running the server in debug mode. The server has so far not exited when running in debug mode, so it would be a little pointless me posting a log here as the problem is not occurring in debug mode. I have added an entry to /etc/rc.local to make it run in debug mode for now in the backround, but I will post this issue on git hub if no one has any further ideas. To replicate, install the latest server on a fully up to date jessie install and try to enable it as a service. When you restart, the server will run for a few minutes. Then it will receive a kill command or similar from debian and exit as shown in the previous log I posted. Now try disabling the service and adding an entry to /etc/rc.local with sudo -u root NVDARemoteServer debug&

this will make the server run next time you reboot. When you reboot, the server stays running as it should. Very strange indeed. Does anyone have a debian system such as a raspberry pi to replicate? So far I have tested on a VPS and pi both running clean installs of debian.


Cheers,


Mo.

On 26/09/2018 11:45, Patrick ZAJDA via Groups.Io wrote:
Hello,

Why don't you use systemd?
sudo systemctl start NVDARemoteServer.service
The debian package install it, if this is not the case look for the path
to the PID file in /etc/nvdaremote.conf
It should be: /var/run/NVDARemoteServer/NVDARemoteServer.pid

Hop this helps.

Le 26/09/2018 à 10:53, Mobeen Iqbal a écrit :
Hello Everyone.


I am new here, so please forgive me if this has been covered before. I
am trying to get the NVDA remote server available on git hub running on
my server running debian8 Jessie.


I have done the  following to get version 1.8 installed and running, but
debian still refuses to automatically start the server on boot. I am
executing all commands as root.


git clone https://github.com/jmdaweb/NVDARemoteServer.git


cd NVDARemoteServer/debian8


sudo chmod +x build.sh


sudo ./build.sh


sudo dpkg -i nvda-remote-server_1.8.deb


sudo NVDARemoteServer enable


In the past, the above commands have worked fine on debian7. Running the
latest versions of all packages available for jessie. Anyone have any
ideas on what else I can try?


Cheers,


Mo.
Re: NVDA 2018.3.2 not Sluggish

Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

Rui,

I notice that the key action is more lively now in NVDA 2018.3.2 which I have just downloaded.

I tested it on the file menus that were sluggish this afternoon and all is well now. There is no longer any lag there.
I'll keep an eye on it and report again in a few days.

Looks good though!

All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rui Fontes
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2018 7:10 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA 2018.3.1 Sluggish

Have all of you installed 2018.3.2?

Rui Fontes


Às 18:59 de 26/09/2018, Mário Navarro escreveu:



Hi.
Yes, I have that issue too.
And in browsers in HTML content, it's even worse...
But this issue is not new in this version of NVDA. It's coming from
the previous version.
and has not been resolved on this update.
It's really annoying.
cheers.


Às 16:32 de 26/09/2018, Cearbhall O'Meadhra escreveu:

Hi all,

Since installing Version 2018.3.1 on my Windows 10 PC, I find that
the system keeps pausing as if something is buffering.

For instance, when I read a document, If I arrow down line by line,
or if I arrow down a long list of filenames, NVDA pauses and goes
silent so that I think it has stopped and then suddenly carries on
with the list as the arrow continues down the list. If I don’t stop
arrowing then NVDA comes back at the point where the cursor is active
and so misses the lines that I moved over while it was buffering.


Is this usual? Is there anything that I can check that could be
causing this behaviour? It is very annoying!

In the attached view log I can see how uneven the timings are between
similar keystrokes.

All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e:
cearbhall.omeadhra@...
--
A acção pode nem sempre ser felicidade, mas não há felicidade sem acção...
Re: O.T.: A friend needs info on screen readers history for her thesis

Mallard <mallard@...>
 

Thanks Brian.


Ciao,
Ollie

Il 26/09/2018 20:59, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io ha scritto:
I'd also suggest Jonathan Mosen, contact him via mosen consulting. He has been involved with lots of projects and also has a good knowledge about voice over on apple and other platforms.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2018 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] O.T.: A friend needs info on screen readers history for her thesis


Hi,
Please tell your friend to interview the following people: Travis Siegal (who is a member of this list I believe and familiar with Window Bridge), Ted Henter (JAWS creator), Doug Gefrey (Window-Eyes and Vocal Eyes), Marc Mulcahy (various projects), Matt Campbell (System Access), Eric Damery (Vfo/Vispero), Doug Lee (scripting), Mick (NV Access), Jeff Bishop (Microsoft and advocacy leadership), and if your friend wants to, me (NVDA and latest developments).
Cheers,
Joseph

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ervin, Glenn" <glenn.ervin@...
To: "nvda@nvda.groups.io" <nvda@nvda.groups.io
Date sent: Wed, 26 Sep 2018 14:36:12 +0000
Subject: Re: [nvda] O.T.: A friend needs info on screen readers history for her thesis

Well, they go back as far as DOS, there's a lot of brands.
Try the NFB, they should have a historical perspective.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mallard
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2018 3:16 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] O.T.: A friend needs info on screen readers history for her thesis

Hello all,

Please, forgive this O.T.  This is the only list I'm on, so I thought of asking here.

A friend of mine, her ein Italy, has been assigned a thesis on the history and evolution of screen readers for Windows.

She doesn't seem to find any suitable material.

Would anyone have any suggestions as to where to look for some documentation that might help her?

I know the request is a bit vague, but that's all I ahve for now.

Thanks in advance.

Ciao,
Ollie
Re: NVDA 2018.3.1 Sluggish

Kwork
 

Yes. Same sluggishness from 2018.2, so this is a few months old for me at least.

On 9/26/2018 11:09 AM, Rui Fontes wrote:
Have all of you installed 2018.3.2?

Rui Fontes


Às 18:59 de 26/09/2018, Mário Navarro escreveu:



Hi.
Yes, I have that issue too.
And in browsers in HTML content, it's even worse...
But this issue is not new in this version of NVDA. It's coming from the previous version.
and has not been resolved on this update.
It's really annoying.
cheers.


Às 16:32 de 26/09/2018, Cearbhall O'Meadhra escreveu:

Hi all,

Since installing Version 2018.3.1 on my Windows 10 PC, I find that the system keeps pausing as if something is buffering.

For instance, when I read a document, If I arrow down line by line, or if I arrow down a long list of filenames, NVDA pauses and goes silent so that I think it has stopped and then suddenly carries on with the list as the arrow continues down the list. If I don’t stop arrowing then NVDA comes back at the point where the cursor is active and so misses the lines that I moved over while it was buffering.


Is this usual? Is there anything that I can check that could be causing this behaviour? It is very annoying!

In the attached view log I can see how uneven the timings are between similar keystrokes.

All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...
--
A acção pode nem sempre ser felicidade, mas não há felicidade sem acção...


.
Re: NVDA 2018.3.1 Sluggish

Kwork
 

I have to go in and kill the explorer process in task manager, then restart it. This seems to do the trick for a short while. After a few minutes of browsing in Windows Explorer, the problem slowly returns, with each pause becoming longer than the previous pause. I had this sluggishness though in 2018.2, so it's not new for me in 2018.3.

On 9/26/2018 10:55 AM, Jackie wrote:
I, to, am having similar problems w/this last update, Cearbhall.

On 9/26/18, Cearbhall O'Meadhra <cearbhall.omeadhra@...> wrote:
Hi all,



Since installing Version 2018.3.1 on my Windows 10 PC, I find that the
system keeps pausing as if something is buffering.



For instance, when I read a document, If I arrow down line by line, or if I
arrow down a long list of filenames, NVDA pauses and goes silent so that I
think it has stopped and then suddenly carries on with the list as the
arrow
continues down the list. If I don't stop arrowing then NVDA comes back at
the point where the cursor is active and so misses the lines that I moved
over while it was buffering.


Is this usual? Is there anything that I can check that could be causing
this
behaviour? It is very annoying!



In the attached view log I can see how uneven the timings are between
similar keystrokes.



All the best,



Cearbhall



m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...
Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My Banking Site

E.T.
 

And neither are these responses, including mine. (smiles)

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
Ancient.Aliens@...
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 9/26/2018 12:38 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Sounds like hijacking to me too. That post from Carlos wasn't necessary.
*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of *Ron Canazzi
*Sent:* Wednesday, September 26, 2018 12:00 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My Banking Site
Hi Carlos,
Why did you post this item about list moderators in the  thread concerning the submit button issue?  Sounds like hijacking to me!
On 9/26/2018 12:37 PM, Carlos wrote:
    Is it not the responsibility of those who read these post to
decide if they want to click on unfamiliar web links?
    If the list is monitored by moderators is it not their
responsibility to make sure that all posts that contain web links be
checked before allowing such posts on the list?
    It should be mandatory that all posts on the list which contain
web links be thoroughly checked out before being allowed on the list.
    On more than one occasion posts have gotten on this list which
should have been checked out by moderators before having ever been
allowed on the list!
    There should be some kind of filtering rules set up to make
sure that posts that have web links be kept out until the moderators
checked them out.
    List moderators need to look at all the changes that are
happening all over the internet to monitor content before it ever
gets to anyone's browsers!
    And yes! I know that I will be called into the principal's
office for having posted this publicly on the list for everyone to
read!  However, we all need to ask the moderators to keep the list
as uncluttered as possible!
On 9/26/2018 8:04 AM, Gene wrote:
That's largely because of poor training, however.  Not for
everything, but for a lot of what people do, you can learn
perhaps ten or fifteen commands that are different for a
different screen-reader and do a lot of what you could do
before.  Most of what people do uses Windows or program
commands.  a different screen-reader may use different screen
review commands and a different command for read title bar and
certain other commands, but a lot of what people do would be the
same because a lot of what is done doesn't use screen-reader
commands.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Ervin, Glenn <mailto:glenn.ervin@...>
*Sent:* Wednesday, September 26, 2018 9:43 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit
Button On My Banking Site
Although this concept of using multiple screenreaders is okay
for those of us who can do that, but if it comes to that as
generally accepted practice, then the majority of users are left
behind.
Glenn
*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> *On Behalf Of
*Brian Vogel
*Sent:* Wednesday, September 26, 2018 8:48 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit
Button On My Banking Site
On Wed, Sep 26, 2018 at 08:58 AM, Davy Cuppens wrote:
Simply told, the procedure is unaccessible so cal your bank
and tel them.
Not that I don't think this is a good idea, because it is, but
you also have to understand that accessibility will always be,
to some extent, a game of catch up.
Web coding keeps changing at blinding speed, and that's not
going to stop.  Sometimes it's a matter of the screen readers
catching up to it, and particularly when the reason for doing a
certain thing a certain way revolves around increased security.
It's really generally helpful to check to see if what doesn't
work under one screen reader might work under another if you
happen to have a system with two or more screen readers
available.  That can help to tease out where the issue might lie.
--
Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134
/The psychology of adultery has been falsified by conventional
morals, which assume, in monogamous countries, that attraction
to one person cannot co-exist with a serious affection for
another.  Everybody knows that this is untrue. . ./
           ~ Bertrand Russell
--
Microsoft Windows 10.1803, NVDA 2018.2, Mozilla Firefox/Thunderbird
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My Banking Site

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Sounds like hijacking to me too. That post from Carlos wasn't necessary.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ron Canazzi
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2018 12:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My Banking Site

 

Hi Carlos,

 

Why did you post this item about list moderators in the  thread concerning the submit button issue?  Sounds like hijacking to me!

 

On 9/26/2018 12:37 PM, Carlos wrote:

    Is it not the responsibility of those who read these post to decide if they want to click on unfamiliar web links?

    If the list is monitored by moderators is it not their responsibility to make sure that all posts that contain web links be checked before allowing such posts on the list?

    It should be mandatory that all posts on the list which contain web links be thoroughly checked out before being allowed on the list.

    On more than one occasion posts have gotten on this list which should have been checked out by moderators before having ever been allowed on the list!

    There should be some kind of filtering rules set up to make sure that posts that have web links be kept out until the moderators checked them out.

    List moderators need to look at all the changes that are happening all over the internet to monitor content before it ever gets to anyone's browsers!

    And yes! I know that I will be called into the principal's office for having posted this publicly on the list for everyone to read!  However, we all need to ask the moderators to keep the list as uncluttered as possible!

 

On 9/26/2018 8:04 AM, Gene wrote:

That's largely because of poor training, however.  Not for everything, but for a lot of what people do, you can learn perhaps ten or fifteen commands that are different for a different screen-reader and do a lot of what you could do before.  Most of what people do uses Windows or program commands.  a different screen-reader may use different screen review commands and a different command for read title bar and certain other commands, but a lot of what people do would be the same because a lot of what is done doesn't use screen-reader commands.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2018 9:43 AM

Subject: Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My Banking Site

 

Although this concept of using multiple screenreaders is okay for those of us who can do that, but if it comes to that as generally accepted practice, then the majority of users are left behind.

Glenn

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2018 8:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My Banking Site

 

On Wed, Sep 26, 2018 at 08:58 AM, Davy Cuppens wrote:

Simply told, the procedure is unaccessible so cal your bank and tel them.

Not that I don't think this is a good idea, because it is, but you also have to understand that accessibility will always be, to some extent, a game of catch up.

Web coding keeps changing at blinding speed, and that's not going to stop.  Sometimes it's a matter of the screen readers catching up to it, and particularly when the reason for doing a certain thing a certain way revolves around increased security.

It's really generally helpful to check to see if what doesn't work under one screen reader might work under another if you happen to have a system with two or more screen readers available.  That can help to tease out where the issue might lie.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The psychology of adultery has been falsified by conventional morals, which assume, in monogamous countries, that attraction to one person cannot co-exist with a serious affection for another.  Everybody knows that this is untrue. . .

           ~ Bertrand Russell

 

 

-- 
Microsoft Windows 10.1803, NVDA 2018.2, Mozilla Firefox/Thunderbird



-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
Re: O.T.: A friend needs info on screen readers history for her thesis

The Wolf
 

Hello good links I am going to save this email.

can you please email me off list?

I need the list info so I can get on the dolphin support email list

On 9/26/2018 4:06 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
Hmmm.

Firstly, I would make a post at forum.audiogames.net in the offtopic room.

Here are a list of links from the dosbox site with screen readers in them

http://batsupport.com/unsupported/dosbox/OSW111.ZIP

http://batsupport.com/unsupported/dosbox/kdm11508.zip

http://batsupport.com/unsupported/dosbox/ksgdemo.zip

http://batsupport.com/unsupported/dosbox/oldgames.7z

note the file in this big zip file shey may want is called old humanware software.

Weather she can read the keynote manuals in there is well who knows.

The mastertouch folder should have a history and instructional manuals on well synths.

http://batsupport.com/unsupported/dosbox/vedemo.zip

Now as for histories.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JAWS_(screen_reader)

https://cs.stanford.edu/people/eroberts/courses/soco/projects/2005-06/accessibility/firstwave.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screen_reader

https://www.afb.org/afbpress/pubnew.asp?DocID=aw050207

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_mvO6EQ0tM

http://maccessibility.net/2011/02/10/blind-faith-a-decade-of-apple-accessibility

http://chrishofstader.com/screen-reader-failure-innovation-deterioration-despair/

https://www.coursera.org/lecture/disability-awareness/screen-reader-demonstration-BfDgt

Those are just some of a list off google searches on screen reader history I found in like 2 minutes.

Now, your friend is welcome to email me, but I don't know everything,

I came from the 80s which is probably as far back as it goes though there was some work in the 70s.

There were a lot of readers out.

I would contact the major blind organisations to see about getting a history of screen readers, there will be archives somewhere.

For my part I have sent this message at my local foundation tech list and the dolphin list.

There are still some old timers like myself, not many of us now though but still a few from the 80s.

I know histories started from the 60s the first synths were made in the 30s.

Most screen readers were for dos, I don't know every one of them though.

About 10 years back before all the groups changed round it was easier to contact some of these groups.

If your friend can wade through the oldgames.7z file and are able to read the key*.txt files in the keysoft folder and the hw*.txt files in the mastertouch folder then she should get some idea of some of the keynote synths.

Technically if you payed me some cash, I do have a lot of old manuals about, but I'm not shipping the physical coppies to itily for nothing.

Email me offlist if you need more information.


On 9/26/2018 8:15 PM, Mallard wrote:
Hello all,

Please, forgive this O.T. This is the only list I'm on, so I thought of asking here.

A friend of mine, her ein Italy, has been assigned a thesis on the history and evolution of screen readers for Windows.

She doesn't seem to find any suitable material.

Would anyone have any suggestions as to where to look for some documentation that might help her?

I know the request is a bit vague, but that's all I ahve for now.

Thanks in advance.

Ciao,
Ollie




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Re: In-Process and information on NVDA Remote

vlad a. c <vladciotescu2000@...>
 

well, i will see if i can also compile a version of it. also, i'm in the process of learning python and i'll see if i can add new features to nvda remote.
Re: Problem with nvda.

Brian's Mail list account
 

What software is she trying to read text from?
If its Open office or Libra Office then there will always be problems.


If this happens in, say wordpad I think we need to find out more about the problem. Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Nika Tsiklauri" <ntsiklauri2@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2018 7:32 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problem with nvda.


hello. thanks for your answer. she is using the desktop keyboard layout.
thanks
nick.
Re: NVDA 2018.3.1 Sluggish

Brian's Mail list account
 

That fix is for a browser issue. My feeling is this is UIA again which is used far more extensively in 10. IE its getting info from other apps as well as the currently focussed one and this gives a bit of a lag as the things cue up so to speak.
Windows 7 is less demanding I suspect.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Mário Navarro" <mario.gnv@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2018 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA 2018.3.1 Sluggish


Yes, I'm with the 2018.3.2

Cheers.


Às 19:09 de 26/09/2018, Rui Fontes escreveu:
Have all of you installed 2018.3.2?

Rui Fontes


Às 18:59 de 26/09/2018, Mário Navarro escreveu:



Hi.
Yes, I have that issue too.
And in browsers in HTML content, it's even worse...
But this issue is not new in this version of NVDA. It's coming from the previous version.
and has not been resolved on this update.
It's really annoying.
cheers.


Às 16:32 de 26/09/2018, Cearbhall O'Meadhra escreveu:

Hi all,

Since installing Version 2018.3.1 on my Windows 10 PC, I find that the system keeps pausing as if something is buffering.

For instance, when I read a document, If I arrow down line by line, or if I arrow down a long list of filenames, NVDA pauses and goes silent so that I think it has stopped and then suddenly carries on with the list as the arrow continues down the list. If I don’t stop arrowing then NVDA comes back at the point where the cursor is active and so misses the lines that I moved over while it was buffering.


Is this usual? Is there anything that I can check that could be causing this behaviour? It is very annoying!

In the attached view log I can see how uneven the timings are between similar keystrokes.

All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...
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Re: NVDA 2018.3.1 Sluggish

Brian's Mail list account
 

Must be windows 10 then as I am using 7 and as I mentioned earlier the only times I see this is when windows is being busy. What does the processor loading look like?
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Mário Navarro" <mario.gnv@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2018 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA 2018.3.1 Sluggish





Hi.
Yes, I have that issue too.
And in browsers in HTML content, it's even worse...
But this issue is not new in this version of NVDA. It's coming from the
previous version.
and has not been resolved on this update.
It's really annoying.
cheers.


Às 16:32 de 26/09/2018, Cearbhall O'Meadhra escreveu:

Hi all,

Since installing Version 2018.3.1 on my Windows 10 PC, I find that the
system keeps pausing as if something is buffering.

For instance, when I read a document, If I arrow down line by line, or
if I arrow down a long list of filenames, NVDA pauses and goes silent
so that I think it has stopped and then suddenly carries on with the
list as the arrow continues down the list. If I don’t stop arrowing
then NVDA comes back at the point where the cursor is active and so
misses the lines that I moved over while it was buffering.


Is this usual? Is there anything that I can check that could be
causing this behaviour? It is very annoying!

In the attached view log I can see how uneven the timings are between
similar keystrokes.

All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

--
A acção pode nem sempre ser felicidade, mas não há felicidade sem acção...
Re: NVDA 2018.3.1 Sluggish

Brian's Mail list account
 

The only time I see this is if windows is doing an update download or a backup. I guess you can look for processes that peak, but you might need sighted help to look at the graphs.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Cearbhall O'Meadhra" <cearbhall.omeadhra@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Cc: "'Quentin Christensen'" <quentin@...>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2018 4:32 PM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA 2018.3.1 Sluggish


Hi all,



Since installing Version 2018.3.1 on my Windows 10 PC, I find that the
system keeps pausing as if something is buffering.



For instance, when I read a document, If I arrow down line by line, or if I
arrow down a long list of filenames, NVDA pauses and goes silent so that I
think it has stopped and then suddenly carries on with the list as the arrow
continues down the list. If I don't stop arrowing then NVDA comes back at
the point where the cursor is active and so misses the lines that I moved
over while it was buffering.


Is this usual? Is there anything that I can check that could be causing this
behaviour? It is very annoying!



In the attached view log I can see how uneven the timings are between
similar keystrokes.



All the best,



Cearbhall



m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...
Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My Banking Site

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Carlos,


Why did you post this item about list moderators in the  thread concerning the submit button issue?  Sounds like hijacking to me!


On 9/26/2018 12:37 PM, Carlos wrote:

    Is it not the responsibility of those who read these post to decide if they want to click on unfamiliar web links?

    If the list is monitored by moderators is it not their responsibility to make sure that all posts that contain web links be checked before allowing such posts on the list?

    It should be mandatory that all posts on the list which contain web links be thoroughly checked out before being allowed on the list.

    On more than one occasion posts have gotten on this list which should have been checked out by moderators before having ever been allowed on the list!

    There should be some kind of filtering rules set up to make sure that posts that have web links be kept out until the moderators checked them out.

    List moderators need to look at all the changes that are happening all over the internet to monitor content before it ever gets to anyone's browsers!

    And yes! I know that I will be called into the principal's office for having posted this publicly on the list for everyone to read!  However, we all need to ask the moderators to keep the list as uncluttered as possible!


On 9/26/2018 8:04 AM, Gene wrote:
That's largely because of poor training, however.  Not for everything, but for a lot of what people do, you can learn perhaps ten or fifteen commands that are different for a different screen-reader and do a lot of what you could do before.  Most of what people do uses Windows or program commands.  a different screen-reader may use different screen review commands and a different command for read title bar and certain other commands, but a lot of what people do would be the same because a lot of what is done doesn't use screen-reader commands.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2018 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My Banking Site

Although this concept of using multiple screenreaders is okay for those of us who can do that, but if it comes to that as generally accepted practice, then the majority of users are left behind.

Glenn

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2018 8:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My Banking Site

 

On Wed, Sep 26, 2018 at 08:58 AM, Davy Cuppens wrote:

Simply told, the procedure is unaccessible so cal your bank and tel them.

Not that I don't think this is a good idea, because it is, but you also have to understand that accessibility will always be, to some extent, a game of catch up.

Web coding keeps changing at blinding speed, and that's not going to stop.  Sometimes it's a matter of the screen readers catching up to it, and particularly when the reason for doing a certain thing a certain way revolves around increased security.

It's really generally helpful to check to see if what doesn't work under one screen reader might work under another if you happen to have a system with two or more screen readers available.  That can help to tease out where the issue might lie.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The psychology of adultery has been falsified by conventional morals, which assume, in monogamous countries, that attraction to one person cannot co-exist with a serious affection for another.  Everybody knows that this is untrue. . .

           ~ Bertrand Russell

 

 

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Re: O.T.: A friend needs info on screen readers history for her thesis

Brian's Mail list account
 

I'd also suggest Jonathan Mosen, contact him via mosen consulting. He has been involved with lots of projects and also has a good knowledge about voice over on apple and other platforms.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2018 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] O.T.: A friend needs info on screen readers history for her thesis


Hi,
Please tell your friend to interview the following people: Travis Siegal (who is a member of this list I believe and familiar with Window Bridge), Ted Henter (JAWS creator), Doug Gefrey (Window-Eyes and Vocal Eyes), Marc Mulcahy (various projects), Matt Campbell (System Access), Eric Damery (Vfo/Vispero), Doug Lee (scripting), Mick (NV Access), Jeff Bishop (Microsoft and advocacy leadership), and if your friend wants to, me (NVDA and latest developments).
Cheers,
Joseph

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ervin, Glenn" <glenn.ervin@...
To: "nvda@nvda.groups.io" <nvda@nvda.groups.io
Date sent: Wed, 26 Sep 2018 14:36:12 +0000
Subject: Re: [nvda] O.T.: A friend needs info on screen readers history for her thesis

Well, they go back as far as DOS, there's a lot of brands.
Try the NFB, they should have a historical perspective.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mallard
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2018 3:16 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] O.T.: A friend needs info on screen readers history for her thesis

Hello all,

Please, forgive this O.T. This is the only list I'm on, so I thought of asking here.

A friend of mine, her ein Italy, has been assigned a thesis on the history and evolution of screen readers for Windows.

She doesn't seem to find any suitable material.

Would anyone have any suggestions as to where to look for some documentation that might help her?

I know the request is a bit vague, but that's all I ahve for now.

Thanks in advance.

Ciao,
Ollie
Re: Tracking focus in Windows Explorer

Brian's Mail list account
 

This I believe is a windows issue. Jaws has similar issues.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Doc Wright godfearer" <godfearer@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2018 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Tracking focus in Windows Explorer


On rare occasions when I delete a file or close a window I get silence from NVDA. even when i tab. I have to change virtual desktops to get speech back.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2018 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Tracking focus in Windows Explorer


I often have nothing read when I open a folder in Windows 7. The information you provide may allow a technically interesting discussion about the problem, but as a practical matter, just down and up arrowing once will place you on the first item and it will be spoken. It may be that pressing the space bar will also cause this item to be spoken, I don't recall if I've ever tried it. both actions will select the item as well. Also, first letter navigation or typing more than the first letter of a name will move you to the folder or file and cause it to be read.

I can't comment about whether this problem occurs in Windows 10 because I don't use it. I suspect it does.

If a folder only has one item in it, I don't know what down and up arrowing once does. I have no such folders.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Felix G.
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2018 9:14 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Tracking focus in Windows Explorer


Hello,
I know I'm probably being pedantic here but I'd like to ask if anyone
else has observed the following:
This happens in Windows Explorer. When I arrow to a folder and hit
enter, in most cases NVDA will announce the first item in the folder,
which is correct behavior as it has focus. However, in some cases it
will remain silent. Then, if I hit NVDA+F1 to get info on the current
navigator object, I get the following:
Developer info for navigator object:
name: ''
role: ROLE_LISTITEM
states: exception: (-2147220991, 'Ein Ereignis konnte keinen
Abonnenten aufrufen.', (None, None, None, 0, None))
isFocusable: exception: (-2147220991, 'Ein Ereignis konnte keinen
Abonnenten aufrufen.', (None, None, None, 0, None))
hasFocus: False
Python object: <baseObject.Dynamic_UIItemListItemUIA object at 0x051C1CB0>
Python class mro: (<class 'baseObject.Dynamic_UIItemListItemUIA'>,
<class 'NVDAObjects.UIA.UIItem'>, <class 'NVDAObjects.UIA.ListItem'>,
<class 'NVDAObjects.UIA.UIA'>, <class 'NVDAObjects.window.Window'>,
<class 'NVDAObjects.NVDAObject'>, <class
'documentBase.TextContainerObject'>, <class
'baseObject.ScriptableObject'>, <class
'baseObject.AutoPropertyObject'>, <type 'object'>)
description: ''
location: None
value: ''
appModule: <'explorer' (appName u'explorer', process ID 2324) at
address 52f4d70>
appModule.productName: u'Betriebssystem Microsoft\xae Windows\xae'
appModule.productVersion: u'6.1.7600.16385'
TextInfo: <class 'NVDAObjects.NVDAObjectTextInfo'>
windowHandle: 984864
windowClassName: u'DirectUIHWND'
windowControlID: 0
windowStyle: 0
windowThreadID: 0
windowText: u''
displayText: exception: 'NoneType' object is not iterable
UIAElement: <POINTER(IUIAutomationElement) ptr=0x3c49500 at 53194e0>
UIA automationID: Exception: (-2147220991, 'Ein Ereignis konnte keinen
Abonnenten aufrufen.', (None, None, None, 0, None))
UIA frameworkID: DirectUI
UIA runtimeID: (2324, 224670096, 0)
UIA providerDescription: [pid:2324,hwnd:0x0 Main(parent
link):Unidentified Provider (unmanaged:EXPLORERFRAME.dll)]
UIA className: Exception: (-2147220991, 'Ein Ereignis konnte keinen
Abonnenten aufrufen.', (None, None, None, 0, None))
UIA patterns available:

A similarly enigmatic object is reached when hitting enter on an empty folder:
Developer info for navigator object:
name: ''
role: ROLE_LISTITEM
states: exception: (-2147220991, 'Ein Ereignis konnte keinen
Abonnenten aufrufen.', (None, None, None, 0, None))
isFocusable: exception: (-2147220991, 'Ein Ereignis konnte keinen
Abonnenten aufrufen.', (None, None, None, 0, None))
hasFocus: False
Python object: <baseObject.Dynamic_UIItemListItemUIA object at 0x05453290>
Python class mro: (<class 'baseObject.Dynamic_UIItemListItemUIA'>,
<class 'NVDAObjects.UIA.UIItem'>, <class 'NVDAObjects.UIA.ListItem'>,
<class 'NVDAObjects.UIA.UIA'>, <class 'NVDAObjects.window.Window'>,
<class 'NVDAObjects.NVDAObject'>, <class
'documentBase.TextContainerObject'>, <class
'baseObject.ScriptableObject'>, <class
'baseObject.AutoPropertyObject'>, <type 'object'>)
description: ''
location: None
value: ''
appModule: <'explorer' (appName u'explorer', process ID 2324) at
address 52f4d70>
appModule.productName: u'Betriebssystem Microsoft\xae Windows\xae'
appModule.productVersion: u'6.1.7600.16385'
TextInfo: <class 'NVDAObjects.NVDAObjectTextInfo'>
windowHandle: 984608
windowClassName: u'DirectUIHWND'
windowControlID: 0
windowStyle: 0
windowThreadID: 0
windowText: u''
displayText: exception: 'NoneType' object is not iterable
UIAElement: <POINTER(IUIAutomationElement) ptr=0x3c495c0 at 546fad0>
UIA automationID: Exception: (-2147220991, 'Ein Ereignis konnte keinen
Abonnenten aufrufen.', (None, None, None, 0, None))
UIA frameworkID: DirectUI
UIA runtimeID: (2324, 162798944, 0)
UIA providerDescription: [pid:2324,hwnd:0x0 Main(parent
link):Unidentified Provider (unmanaged:EXPLORERFRAME.dll)]
UIA className: Exception: (-2147220991, 'Ein Ereignis konnte keinen
Abonnenten aufrufen.', (None, None, None, 0, None))
UIA patterns available:

The empty folder behavior is not that much of a problem for me but the
one I described first bothers me to some degree as it is
nondeterministic, that is, it will seemingly randomly show up, leading
me to believe a folder is empty when it isn't.
Best,
Felix
Re: Problem With Submit Button On My Banking Site

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Group,


I don't know quite what happened.  I had called the bank yesterday and they said they would refer it to their IT department and that the department would call me back.  They never did call me back, but this morning when I tried to log in, the submit button worked. I don't know whether they updated their architecture in the past few days and introduced some sort of coding violation or whatever and then it was brought to their attention and they

fixed it.  I guess I'm all right for now until the next change on the page.


BTW, I am wondering just where the information for this 2 step log-in is kept in the browser.  Whenever I uninstall, reinstall or refresh Firefox, I never lose log-in or password information as such.  I am wondering just where the second step log in information (the graphic and the self chosen captcha word) is stored in Firefox.  Or could it be in the registry?




On 9/26/2018 9:47 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Wed, Sep 26, 2018 at 08:58 AM, Davy Cuppens wrote:
Simply told, the procedure is unaccessible so cal your bank and tel them.
Not that I don't think this is a good idea, because it is, but you also have to understand that accessibility will always be, to some extent, a game of catch up.

Web coding keeps changing at blinding speed, and that's not going to stop.  Sometimes it's a matter of the screen readers catching up to it, and particularly when the reason for doing a certain thing a certain way revolves around increased security.

It's really generally helpful to check to see if what doesn't work under one screen reader might work under another if you happen to have a system with two or more screen readers available.  That can help to tease out where the issue might lie.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

    The psychology of adultery has been falsified by conventional morals, which assume, in monogamous countries, that attraction to one person cannot co-exist with a serious affection for another.  Everybody knows that this is untrue. . .

           ~ Bertrand Russell

 

 


-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
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