Hi,

To answer both messages:

• Windows 10 20H2/21H2: I understand the need to support 21H2 at least. Not 20H2 as it will be no more by the time NVDA 2023.1 becomes widely available or close to it (if NV Access follows the schedule from earlier this year). I chose 22H2 as it is available to everyone at the moment, with Microsoft asking enterprises to upgrade to it sooner than later. Besides, I plan to end support for Windows 10 21H2 from Windows App Essentials add-on by June 2023 to align with support policy for this add-on (the add-on supports Windows 10/11 releases that are supported for consumers i.e. Home, Pro, Pro for Workstations), so I decided to align other add-ons to follow suit for consistency. I will at least reconsider adding 21H2 back to supported Windows list if I do hear justifications from corporate users, but my intention is: we are still living in the era of Windows as a Service where timely upgrading is essential.
• NVDA and older Windows releases (I'm answering this from the perspective of a third-party contributor, not NV Access): we do have developers using Windows 7, providing development and test data. Part of the reason for delaying Python upgrade to early 2024 is because the bug fix for stack corruption on certain 64-bit Windows didn't make in time for NV Access and contributors to test the newer Python release (specifically, Python 3.11.0 did not include the stack corruption bug fix but was included in 3.11.1 which came out last week). There is another issue that was found that is preventing NV Access from moving to newer Python, and that has to do with communicating with COM (component object model) functions (Mick Curran brought this up last week). Moving to say, Python 3.11 will mean we will be saying goodbye to Windows 7 and 8.x.
• 64-bit NVDA (again speaking from the viewpoint of a contributor, not NV Access): we cannot simply move to 64-bit Python because: A. Windows 10 on ARM64 cannot run x64 code (some would say this is nothing to worry about but this then would not explain why I and some folks became excited in 2017 when NVDA provided early support for ARM64), B. this requires checking the source code to make sure screen reader (and add-on) code is architecture-neutral as much as possible (a pull request I'm coordinating with NVDA add-ons community for NVDA screen reader, designed to help NVDA detect ARM64 Windows releases better, is planned to cover both 32-bit and 64-bit Python possibilities in one move), and more importantly, C. there is no known 32-bit/64-bit hybrid NVDA add-on, and using 64-bit Python means we need to build a bridge to let you all continue to use 32-bit speech synthesizers without serious problems (you cannot load 32-bit dll's inside 64-bit executables and vice versa unless a bridge like what we have with NVDA today (NVDA loader helper executable designed to communicate more effectively with certain 64-bit apps) is implemented). 64-bit is the norm these days, but also think about Windows 10 which will be the last 32-bit Windows release, so we will see 32-bit systems until at least 2031 (if you count Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC as something people should use, which I disagree as LTSC (long-term servicing channel) is meant for mission-critical devices).

There is another reason for ending support for unsupported Windows releases, including releases that have gone beyond consumer-level support (by the way, Windows 10 21H1 has just exited support): I am about to reduce the scope of some add-ons (some involving features, some involving supported Windows releases) as part of a plan to slowly reduce my presence in NVDA community. This has been ongoing somewhat, and I expect to accelerate this plan in 2023 to make way for the next group of users and developers who are more passionate about NVDA like I was ten years ago.

Cheers,

Joseph

Hi all,

Hope you are celebrating holidays safely (remember that we are still going through a once in a century pandemic).

Before taking a holiday break myself (Christmas and New Year), I would like to talk about what to expect with my add-ons in January 2023 (at least give you a preview of new and changed features in various add-ons; add-ons include Add-on Updater, Enhanced Touch Gestures, Event Tracker, GoldWave, Object Location Tones, ObjPad, Office Desk, Resource Monitor, Sound Splitter, StationPlaylist, Windows App Essentials). But first, a few important reminders:

• Windows release requirement: this is another (and hopefully my last) reminder that, effective January 3, 2023, all of my add-ons except Add-on Updater will require Windows 10 or later, specifically Windows 10 Version 22H2 (2022 Update) or later. Although version 23.01 of my add-ons will tell you that Windows 10 or later is required, updates scheduled to be released shortly after NVDA 2023.1 beta 1 is released will actually enforce Windows 10 22H2 requirement. This is done for consistency across my add-ons and to get you to use supported Windows releases. The only exception is Add-on Updater as it will support older Windows releases in case you do need to use Windows 7, 8.1, or older Windows 10 releases with various add-ons (only use older Windows releases if you must, more so if your computer is part of a corporate domain; for others, PLEASE UPGRADE SOONER THAN LATER, IN 2022 RATHER THAN WAITING UNTIL MIDDLE OF 2023!); by the way, as a tangent note, in case you didn’t hear, Chrome (and Firefox if I remember correctly) will end support for soon to be unsupported Windows releases (7 and 8.x) in early 2023.
• NVDA version requirement: currently most of my add-ons (mostly ones I’m no longer actively maintaining) are running happily on NVDA 2021.x, but that has come to a close; in recent days I have committed a set of changes to several add-ons, especially StationPlaylist add-on that will use features introduced in NVDA 2022.x. Version 22.12 of the add-ons I have released a few days ago are the last releases to support NVDA versions earlier than 2022.3; come January 2023, and you will be asked to use 2022.3 or later.

 

As for what’s included in upcoming add-on releases, these can be roughly divided into three parts:

• Dependency updates: Resource Monitor and Sound Splitter will use the latest version of psutil dependency.
• Visible and invisible changes: visible changes include letting you reassign additional touch commands in Enhanced Touch Gestures (most notably touch keyboard toggle, currently four finger flick right by default), minimum Windows version check in Add-on Updater (only some repositories), and a change to announce exactly which system architecture Windows is reporting in Resource Monitor (x86 = 32-bit Intel/AMD processors, AMD64 = 64-bit Intel/AMD systems, ARM64 = 64-bit ARM processors). In particular, the change to be made to Resource Monitor add-on serves as a test for a change to be submitted to NVDA source code. StationPlaylist add-on has been significantly updated, with one notable change being removal of first/last playlist viewer column commands (Control+Alt+Home/End keys) as NVDA 2022.2 and later includes these commands.
• Bug fixes: mostly applicable to Windows App Essentials. A number of bugs found while using apps such as Maps app were fixed, as well as preparing NVDA to support future Windows 11 Version 22H2 (2022 Update) features (currently tested by Windows Insiders). In particular, NVDA will let you use mouse and/or touch to interact with parts of Windows 11 22H2 user interface that will be changing in 2023 (if you are curious, do a Google search for Windows 11 22H2 redesigned taskbar).

 

Add-on release schedule and follow-up activities:

• December 26, 2022: NVDA 2022.3 requirement will be turned on from Add-on Updater for my add-ons.
• January 3, 2023: version 23.01 of my add-ons will be released. People using soon to be unsupported Windows releases (7, 8, 8.1) will see an installation message, telling you that the add-on requires Windows 10 or later.
• No later than January 10, 2023: minimum Windows version requirement will be turned on from Add-on Updater if add-on update source is set to community add-ons website.

 

Hope this helps. Have a safe and healthy holiday season (Merry Christmas and Happy New Year). See you in 2023!

Cheers,

Joseph

Hi all,

Hope you are celebrating holidays safely (remember that we are still going through a once in a century pandemic).

Before taking a holiday break myself (Christmas and New Year), I would like to talk about what to expect with my add-ons in January 2023 (at least give you a preview of new and changed features in various add-ons; add-ons include Add-on Updater, Enhanced Touch Gestures, Event Tracker, GoldWave, Object Location Tones, ObjPad, Office Desk, Resource Monitor, Sound Splitter, StationPlaylist, Windows App Essentials). But first, a few important reminders:

• Windows release requirement: this is another (and hopefully my last) reminder that, effective January 3, 2023, all of my add-ons except Add-on Updater will require Windows 10 or later, specifically Windows 10 Version 22H2 (2022 Update) or later. Although version 23.01 of my add-ons will tell you that Windows 10 or later is required, updates scheduled to be released shortly after NVDA 2023.1 beta 1 is released will actually enforce Windows 10 22H2 requirement. This is done for consistency across my add-ons and to get you to use supported Windows releases. The only exception is Add-on Updater as it will support older Windows releases in case you do need to use Windows 7, 8.1, or older Windows 10 releases with various add-ons (only use older Windows releases if you must, more so if your computer is part of a corporate domain; for others, PLEASE UPGRADE SOONER THAN LATER, IN 2022 RATHER THAN WAITING UNTIL MIDDLE OF 2023!); by the way, as a tangent note, in case you didn’t hear, Chrome (and Firefox if I remember correctly) will end support for soon to be unsupported Windows releases (7 and 8.x) in early 2023.
• NVDA version requirement: currently most of my add-ons (mostly ones I’m no longer actively maintaining) are running happily on NVDA 2021.x, but that has come to a close; in recent days I have committed a set of changes to several add-ons, especially StationPlaylist add-on that will use features introduced in NVDA 2022.x. Version 22.12 of the add-ons I have released a few days ago are the last releases to support NVDA versions earlier than 2022.3; come January 2023, and you will be asked to use 2022.3 or later.

 

As for what’s included in upcoming add-on releases, these can be roughly divided into three parts:

• Dependency updates: Resource Monitor and Sound Splitter will use the latest version of psutil dependency.
• Visible and invisible changes: visible changes include letting you reassign additional touch commands in Enhanced Touch Gestures (most notably touch keyboard toggle, currently four finger flick right by default), minimum Windows version check in Add-on Updater (only some repositories), and a change to announce exactly which system architecture Windows is reporting in Resource Monitor (x86 = 32-bit Intel/AMD processors, AMD64 = 64-bit Intel/AMD systems, ARM64 = 64-bit ARM processors). In particular, the change to be made to Resource Monitor add-on serves as a test for a change to be submitted to NVDA source code. StationPlaylist add-on has been significantly updated, with one notable change being removal of first/last playlist viewer column commands (Control+Alt+Home/End keys) as NVDA 2022.2 and later includes these commands.
• Bug fixes: mostly applicable to Windows App Essentials. A number of bugs found while using apps such as Maps app were fixed, as well as preparing NVDA to support future Windows 11 Version 22H2 (2022 Update) features (currently tested by Windows Insiders). In particular, NVDA will let you use mouse and/or touch to interact with parts of Windows 11 22H2 user interface that will be changing in 2023 (if you are curious, do a Google search for Windows 11 22H2 redesigned taskbar).

 

Add-on release schedule and follow-up activities:

• December 26, 2022: NVDA 2022.3 requirement will be turned on from Add-on Updater for my add-ons.
• January 3, 2023: version 23.01 of my add-ons will be released. People using soon to be unsupported Windows releases (7, 8, 8.1) will see an installation message, telling you that the add-on requires Windows 10 or later.
• No later than January 10, 2023: minimum Windows version requirement will be turned on from Add-on Updater if add-on update source is set to community add-ons website.

 

Hope this helps. Have a safe and healthy holiday season (Merry Christmas and Happy New Year). See you in 2023!

Cheers,

Joseph

To Assign or Re-Assign an Input Gesture (think of it as the keyboard shortcut for a given NVDA function to make it happen):
1. Open the Input Gestures Dialog [NVDA + N, P, N]
2. Locate the specific feature or add-on for which you're trying to assign, change, or de-assign an input gesture.  These will all be at "level 0." You can also use the "Filter by" box at the top to search for a given input gesture if you happen to know what its name is or even have a reasonable guess for part of it.  I tend to down-arrow through the list to get to the category or add-on, but that's just me.
3. Hit Right arrow to expand the function category/add-on so that its list of input gestures is shown.
4. As you down arrow through the "level 1" (actual gestures available) list, each gesture's function will be announced.  If you hear "collapsed" along with it, that means that gesture already has an assignment, and you can expand it with right arrow to see what it is (and/or change it).  If only the gesture is announced, that means it has no assignment.
5. If the gesture has no assignment, and you wish to assign it, then do the following.  If it already has one, and you want to review or change it, to to step 6 now.
    a. With focus remaining on the gesture you wish to assign, navigate to the Add button in the Input Gestures and activate it.
    b. NVDA will say, "Enter input gesture," at which point you hold down the key sequence you wish to use.  It has to be one that is not already used for something else.  I will use ALT + CTRL + C for an example.  If you hold down ALT + CTRL + C, and it is not already assigned, a pop-up will be presented asking whether you want this shortcut/gesture only for the keyboard layout you're currently using, or all keyboard layouts.  Make your choice, hit Enter, and the key sequence is assigned to that gesture/function.
6. After you hit right arrow to expand it, the gesture/function's current keyboard shortcut sequence will be announced if it already has one.  If you don't wish to change it, then you're done.  If you do, then with focus remaining on the actual key sequence for the gesture/function, navigate to the Remove button and activate it.  This does exactly what you'd think.  You are then in precisely the same situation you would be if the gesture/function had no key sequence assigned, so you can follow steps 5a and 5b to assign the key sequence you prefer.
7. After doing any tweaking for one or more input gestures, if you wish to keep any changes you've made navigate to the OK button and activate it.  If not, navigate to the Cancel button and activate it.
--
Brian - Virginia, USA- Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit
"Be Yourself" is the worst advice you can give to some people.
       ~ Tom Masson

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 03:42 PM, Gene wrote:

I don't see a command in NVDA that does what I was suggesting [a way you can move the NVDA position to the mouse position], though others may know of one. 

-
I would have to believe that the command to Navigate to the object under the mouse would do precisely this.  See the last of the mouse commands in the Commands Quick Reference [invokable via NVDA + N, H, Q]
--

Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit

"Be Yourself" is the worst advice you can give to some people.

       ~ Tom Masson

I don't see a command in NVDA that does what I was suggesting, though others may know of one.  This may be a bug and if you did create a Github ticket, perhaps you can revive discussion.

Gene

I don't know if it is a bug but since the problem remains, I'm saying that there may be a way you can move the NVDA position to the mouse position and then read using the keyboard, which may be the best way you can read without interruption as you wish, given the problem.

Gene

On 12/16/2022 2:10 PM, Russell James wrote:

That is correct, I often read content randomly using the physical mouse.

 

However, what I want does not involve the keyboard...

 

When I mouse over content I want it to read the same way it does when using the ctrl down arrow.

 

I think the reading interruption is not desirable and believe it to be a defect.

Which is why I reported it many years ago...

 

Reading this way with the mouse was supported by the screen reader I used prior to NVDA.

 

Russ

 

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 2:45 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

Since you evidently want to use a physical mouse, the question becomes whether you can move the location in browse mode to the location of the mouse and issue a read paragraph command using the keyboard.  Someone may know.

Gene

On 12/16/2022 1:24 PM, Russell James wrote:

Gene

 

The ctrl down arrow approach works without having links interrupt the reading of a paragraph with embedded links.

 

Unfortunately, when randomly selecting a paragraph to be read using the mouse does not use the same method to read the paragraph...

 

I wonder what happens when using a touch screen and randomly touching a paragraph...

 

Russ

 

On Thu, Dec 15, 2022 at 12:32 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

I don't recall you discussing what you were doing in past messages when reading is interrupted.  I had thought you were using the read to end command because that is generally what is done.  People generally don't read with a screen-reader using a physical mouse.  I don't know why, if you are using a physical mouse, you are experiencing what you are experiencing.  But if you want to read uninterruptedly, use the read to end command.  If you want to read a paragraph, then have reading stop at the end of the paragraph, use control down arrow to move to and read the next paragraph in full.

If you have a reason to want to read by moving the physical mouse, if you explain why you want to do this, people may propose ways to do what you want that won't result in interrupted reading while having the mouse where you want it.

Gene

On 12/15/2022 11:05 AM, Russell James wrote:

I don't have any NVDA add ons enabled

 

When I mouse over a paragraph of text on a web page that includes a link the paragraph stops reading when it encounters the link.

If the mouse is moved over the link the link is read.

However, the text beyond the link in the paragraph is not spoken when the mouse is moved over it.

 

That happens on the web page but does not when the paragraph is copied/pasted into a GMail message.

 

Something similar probably happens when using a touch screen and touching the paragraph...

 

Russ

 

On Wed, Dec 14, 2022 at 7:05 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

I don't know what the problem is but it isn't a general problem.  I read the entire article and reading didn't stop.  You might try running NVDA with add-ons disabled and see if you have the same problem. 

Issue the quit NVDA command, NVDA key q, down arrow to restart with add-ons disabled and press enter.  When NVDA restarts, no add-ons will be running.  You can try the page again and see if the same thing happens.

Gene

On 12/14/2022 3:03 PM, Russell James wrote:

Gene,

 

BTW, I just ran into this again while reading some news...

 

FYI I was using espeak NG and switched to the MS voice and neither could read the paragraph with the embedded link without stopping when getting to the link.

 

I also tried with screen layout on and off and it made no difference...

 

Then I pasted the paragraph below:

• Tandem, targeting a 2027 U.S. launch, will enter a market that is already served by Insulet and has attracted the attention of its tubed pump rival Medtronic, whose Omnipod device is disposable.

 

Unlike on that web page, in this email message composition the paragraph reads without stopping.

 

For reference, this is that web page:

https://www.medtechdive.com/news/tandem-TNDM-acquires-AMF-Diabete-Insulin-patch-pump/638708/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Issue:%202022-12-14%20MedTech%20Dive%20%5Bissue:46695%5D&utm_term=MedTech%20Dive

 

Russ

 

On Wed, Dec 14, 2022 at 11:42 AM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

I just did a bit of experimenting and I found out that what I said isn't quite right about the numpad delete key.  You can use that key with the NVDA key as an NVDA command.  You can't use the main keyboard delete key with the NDA key to execute an NVDA command using default settings.  But if you use NVDA delete without the NVDA key, it will duplicate the delete key on the main keyboard.

This is all on the desktop setting.  I'm curious why things are set up that way.  It would seem to me that making both delete keys function with the NVDA key as an NVDA command would be more logical and wouldn't interfere with how the key is used anywhere else.  In other words, unless there is some reason I am unaware of, I think both delete keys should work the same.  They should both execute the NVDA location command when used with the NVDA key.

Gene

On 12/14/2022 10:33 AM, Gene wrote:

Actually, that isn't correct, as I think about it.  The only key that isn't reserved is the numlock key.  NVDA does reserve the insert key as the NVDA key but it does so for both insert keys.  That's why I made the error.  Since both keys are reserved, you can use them both interchangeably.

To use either insert key for its original purpose, you must press them both quickly twice.

Gene

On 12/14/2022 10:29 AM, Gene wrote:

The only two keys on the Numpad that aren't reserved by NVDA in desktop keyboard layout are the numlock and the numpad insert keys.  NVDA announces numpad delete if you press that key when input help is on and it says just delete when the delete key is pressed that isn't on the numpad.

Gene

On 12/14/2022 10:22 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Wed, Dec 14, 2022 at 11:16 AM, Gene wrote:

The delete key on the main keyboard doesn't double as the numpad delete key when NVDA is running.

-
Interesting, and unusual for this type of key.

In any case, if the NVDA + 1 command is used to toggle on NVDA Input Help Mode to describe keys when pressed, and all the keys in the number pad are explored when NumLock is off, I would be genuinely shocked if none were announced as a delete key.  The "classic six-pack" of Home, End, Page Up, Page Down, Insert, and Delete has been on every number pad I've ever dealt with that I can recall, whether a full-sized laptop or desktop keyboard is involved.  Makers can and do have different locations for certain NumPad key doublings, but I'd definitely toggle on NVDA Input Help Mode and hit every key in the number pad area with NumLock off to determine definitively if a Delete is there or not there.  Then, of course, toggle it back off.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit

"Be Yourself" is the worst advice you can give to some people.

       ~ Tom Masson

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

OK running Win 11 2022 H2 and latest released version of NVDA. Downloaded and installed the NVDA addon Time zoner.  to utilize the addon requires the key combination of insert alt up arrow.  I have great difficulty envoking this key combination  I am understanding that there is another way to do this using input gestures but I don't understand how this works.  Can someone explain this method of entering a key combination?
Thanks.