Date   

Re: [nvda-addons] FW: [nvda] "Unofficial" NVDA Add-Ons Repository

 

On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 04:09 pm, Adriani Botez wrote:
Because addons.nvda-rpoject.org is actually the official addons website which is the face of NVDA when talking about security. If there appear addons which have never been reviewed, then we cannot speak of a somehow secure environment anymore.
I repeat:  A parallel one for "user created and not officially tested" add-ons should also exist. 
AND:  Hosting something, with a clear notice that they have not been reviewed to ensure they meet NVDA standards, is not implying approval of said add-ons.

And with this, I'm out.   It appears that the idea of hosting a location where user developed, but not officially reviewed or tested, add-ons can reside for use by whoever might be inclined to use them is just too much to ask.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore

 

 


Re: [nvda-addons] FW: [nvda] "Unofficial" NVDA Add-Ons Repository

Brandon Cross <bcross3286@...>
 

I agree with the form idea, why is it 2018 and so many communities revolving around blindness are still using email lists. I don't even understand email lists which is why you rarely see me post here. I guess I just used more mainstream options.

On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 6:16 PM, Damien Garwood <damien@...> wrote:
Hi there,

"3. The author does not understand the git system or is used to other subversion systems and might not want to change this."

Making addons is a tricky business in and of itself in my view. It took me ages to find the NVDA developer API, and that isn't including trying to learn to navigate it, and understand it, figuring out what is internal and what is usable etc. There is still a bug in my BGT addon that I have been unable to find a way to fix since its initial development last year.
Add Git and GitHub to the mix and, at least from my point of view, I found that very intimidating. To be honest, this is partly why I don't try NVDA snapshot builds any more, and why I don't submit issues. Even looking at issues somewhat confuses me. Even the version system I use on a regular basis, Fossil, only receives the most basic commands from me. Add files, commit, and update. No thanks to branches and tagging!
That isn't even bringing administration into the mix. Obviously things need to be done to mark addons as release, put them through the translation system etc, but I haven't the foggiest idea as to how that works, how to get the ball rolling etc. Despite documents stating that all you need is a knowledge of Python, it's clear to me that submitting and publishing an addon needs a lot more, and this makes me wonder just where my future is as a potential addon writer, let alone core developer.
Cheers,
Damien.

On 04/06/2018 10:43 PM, Adriani Botez wrote:
Dear all,

I don’t find the original post in my inbox, but I want to answer to this statement though.

Some months ago I discovered the french addon website and made some statements about cooperations between addon authors. At that time it was all about audacity. Two brilliant authors in my opinion, Paul B. and Robert H. have developed two complex addons for the same software. Then I discovered, that there is a very useful addon for Microsoft word on the French website. Its functions could have been integrated in the appmodule since very long time. Moreover, there is the Italian addon repository, with very useful addons as well. And there are many other addon websites we might not know about.

Well, ideally authors should cooperate with each other on a worldwide basis, but that’s why we organize NVDACon every year. However, there is someone who is creating an addon for his needs and might want to share it just with a small community of people. There are many reasons for this behavior:

 1. The author cannot speak English and thus, he cannot understand user
    feedback
 2. The author knows that he or she will not be able to invest a huge
    amount of time in maintaining the addon. He or she thinks maybe if
    the addon is spread all over the world, the feedback will cause far
    too much work.
 3. The author does not understand the git system or is used to other
    subversion systems and might not want to change this.

The decision of an author to make an addon available for the entire worldwide community can and should not be manipulated by any system restriction or what so ever. The only thing we can do is to encourage anyone to submit his addons. The man power is in place, the systems are in place, the structure is in place. It is not more than writing an e-mail and requesting a review. But it is still the decision of an author if he wants to make this step or not.

Best

Adriani

*Von:* nvda-addons@....io <nvda-addons@...s.io> *Im Auftrag von *Joseph Lee
*Gesendet:* Montag, 4. Juni 2018 16:21
*An:* nvda-addons@groups.io
*Betreff:* [nvda-addons] FW: [nvda] "Unofficial" NVDA Add-Ons Repository

Hi all,

Do we have any response to this? I think the below suggestion shows that we need to do something about making authors not listed on official add-ons site feel comfortable submitting their add-ons for review here.

Cheers,

Joseph

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> *On Behalf Of *Brian Vogel
*Sent:* Monday, June 4, 2018 7:17 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] "Unofficial" NVDA Add-Ons Repository

On Sun, Jun 3, 2018 at 08:09 pm, Joseph Lee wrote:

    The position of the NVDA add-ons community is that we encourage
    add-on authors to submit add-ons for review

Which would be ideal, if  everyone did it, but they don't for myriad reasons.

I think that most sentient adults are capable of making risk assessments and deciding whether or not they wish to take them.  Those using add-ons from other than the official repository must know, or they do now, that doing so is at your own risk (AYOR).

But, my experience with software in general far more closely mirrors that of Vlad, "non-official rarely means dangerous."   I cannot count the number of "very focused purpose" mini-utilities I've used that were developed by some individual based upon their need that later fulfilled one of mine, and perfectly and safely.

One of the big mistakes I think that both NVDA and JAWS have made is not setting up "official but unvetted" repositories for user-created add-ons/scripts.   There is just so much material out there that's been created for "odd little needs" that could so easily be shared if the mechanism existed "at the source," but it doesn't.  I got huge push-back from "the powers that be" when I started a repository (personally maintained) of repair, restoration, & other miscellaneous resources for Rolls-Royce motorcars.  The Rolls-Royce Owners' Club wouldn't touch it, saying they couldn't be responsible if any of the goods or services were found to be substandard, but it's now become a reference that's used the world over (at least if the e-mail messages I've received over time, and keep receiving, are any indication).  In this day and age there is just no excuse for not promoting information sharing so long as those on the receiving end know that they need to do their own risk assessment about its use, which they should be doing anyway for anything, and letting the chips fall where they may.  The world at large is not, and will never be, "sanitized for your protection" and one must move through the world with that always in the back of one's mind.  How far to the back will vary, greatly, depending on the situation and stakes at play.
--

*Brian**-*Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

/Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong./

           ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA /The Sage of Baltimore/







Re: [nvda-addons] FW: [nvda] "Unofficial" NVDA Add-Ons Repository

Adriani Botez
 

Because addons.nvda-rpoject.org is actually the official addons website which is the face of NVDA when talking about security. If there appear addons which have never been reviewed, then we cannot speak of a somehow secure environment anymore.

 

 

Best

Adriani

 

 

Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Brian Vogel
Gesendet: Dienstag, 5. Juni 2018 01:04
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda-addons] FW: [nvda] "Unofficial" NVDA Add-Ons Repository

 

On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 03:12 pm, Adriani Botez wrote:

Well, then we should create a separate repository on github called “untested addons” and every author could compile his addon and just put it in that repository.

And we're right back to where things started when I made the proposal in the first place:  https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda/message/40851 

There needs to be a repository for "officially vetted and tested" add-ons, and it already exists at https://addons.nvda-project.org/index.en.html.  A parallel one for "user created and not officially tested" add-ons should also exist.  I would not call them untested as a very great many have been in use by those who coded them for themselves.  It's just that they would not have the NVDA seal of approval, which is just fine, since it's possible to request review and placement in the official repository if an author so chooses.  Many won't.

Hosting something, with a clear notice that they have not been reviewed to ensure they meet NVDA standards, is not implying approval of said add-ons.

Users also understand the concept of using at your own risk.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore

 

 


Re: [nvda-addons] FW: [nvda] "Unofficial" NVDA Add-Ons Repository

Adriani Botez
 

Yes, but I would not put such a repo on addons.nvda-project.org. I would just do it on github.

 

Best

Adriani

 

 

 

Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Brian Vogel
Gesendet: Dienstag, 5. Juni 2018 01:04
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda-addons] FW: [nvda] "Unofficial" NVDA Add-Ons Repository

 

On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 03:12 pm, Adriani Botez wrote:

Well, then we should create a separate repository on github called “untested addons” and every author could compile his addon and just put it in that repository.

And we're right back to where things started when I made the proposal in the first place:  https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda/message/40851 

There needs to be a repository for "officially vetted and tested" add-ons, and it already exists at https://addons.nvda-project.org/index.en.html.  A parallel one for "user created and not officially tested" add-ons should also exist.  I would not call them untested as a very great many have been in use by those who coded them for themselves.  It's just that they would not have the NVDA seal of approval, which is just fine, since it's possible to request review and placement in the official repository if an author so chooses.  Many won't.

Hosting something, with a clear notice that they have not been reviewed to ensure they meet NVDA standards, is not implying approval of said add-ons.

Users also understand the concept of using at your own risk.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore

 

 


Re: [nvda-addons] FW: [nvda] "Unofficial" NVDA Add-Ons Repository

 

On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 03:12 pm, Adriani Botez wrote:
Well, then we should create a separate repository on github called “untested addons” and every author could compile his addon and just put it in that repository.
And we're right back to where things started when I made the proposal in the first place:  https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda/message/40851 

There needs to be a repository for "officially vetted and tested" add-ons, and it already exists at https://addons.nvda-project.org/index.en.html.  A parallel one for "user created and not officially tested" add-ons should also exist.  I would not call them untested as a very great many have been in use by those who coded them for themselves.  It's just that they would not have the NVDA seal of approval, which is just fine, since it's possible to request review and placement in the official repository if an author so chooses.  Many won't.

Hosting something, with a clear notice that they have not been reviewed to ensure they meet NVDA standards, is not implying approval of said add-ons.

Users also understand the concept of using at your own risk.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore

 

 


Re: [nvda-addons] FW: [nvda] "Unofficial" NVDA Add-Ons Repository

Damien Garwood <damien@...>
 

Hi there,

"3. The author does not understand the git system or is used to other subversion systems and might not want to change this."

Making addons is a tricky business in and of itself in my view. It took me ages to find the NVDA developer API, and that isn't including trying to learn to navigate it, and understand it, figuring out what is internal and what is usable etc. There is still a bug in my BGT addon that I have been unable to find a way to fix since its initial development last year.
Add Git and GitHub to the mix and, at least from my point of view, I found that very intimidating. To be honest, this is partly why I don't try NVDA snapshot builds any more, and why I don't submit issues. Even looking at issues somewhat confuses me. Even the version system I use on a regular basis, Fossil, only receives the most basic commands from me. Add files, commit, and update. No thanks to branches and tagging!
That isn't even bringing administration into the mix. Obviously things need to be done to mark addons as release, put them through the translation system etc, but I haven't the foggiest idea as to how that works, how to get the ball rolling etc. Despite documents stating that all you need is a knowledge of Python, it's clear to me that submitting and publishing an addon needs a lot more, and this makes me wonder just where my future is as a potential addon writer, let alone core developer.
Cheers,
Damien.

On 04/06/2018 10:43 PM, Adriani Botez wrote:
Dear all,
I don’t find the original post in my inbox, but I want to answer to this statement though.
Some months ago I discovered the french addon website and made some statements about cooperations between addon authors. At that time it was all about audacity. Two brilliant authors in my opinion, Paul B. and Robert H. have developed two complex addons for the same software. Then I discovered, that there is a very useful addon for Microsoft word on the French website. Its functions could have been integrated in the appmodule since very long time. Moreover, there is the Italian addon repository, with very useful addons as well. And there are many other addon websites we might not know about.
Well, ideally authors should cooperate with each other on a worldwide basis, but that’s why we organize NVDACon every year. However, there is someone who is creating an addon for his needs and might want to share it just with a small community of people. There are many reasons for this behavior:
1. The author cannot speak English and thus, he cannot understand user
feedback
2. The author knows that he or she will not be able to invest a huge
amount of time in maintaining the addon. He or she thinks maybe if
the addon is spread all over the world, the feedback will cause far
too much work.
3. The author does not understand the git system or is used to other
subversion systems and might not want to change this.
The decision of an author to make an addon available for the entire worldwide community can and should not be manipulated by any system restriction or what so ever. The only thing we can do is to encourage anyone to submit his addons. The man power is in place, the systems are in place, the structure is in place. It is not more than writing an e-mail and requesting a review. But it is still the decision of an author if he wants to make this step or not.
Best
Adriani
*Von:* nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io <nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io> *Im Auftrag von *Joseph Lee
*Gesendet:* Montag, 4. Juni 2018 16:21
*An:* nvda-addons@groups.io
*Betreff:* [nvda-addons] FW: [nvda] "Unofficial" NVDA Add-Ons Repository
Hi all,
Do we have any response to this? I think the below suggestion shows that we need to do something about making authors not listed on official add-ons site feel comfortable submitting their add-ons for review here.
Cheers,
Joseph
*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> *On Behalf Of *Brian Vogel
*Sent:* Monday, June 4, 2018 7:17 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] "Unofficial" NVDA Add-Ons Repository
On Sun, Jun 3, 2018 at 08:09 pm, Joseph Lee wrote:
The position of the NVDA add-ons community is that we encourage
add-on authors to submit add-ons for review
Which would be ideal, if  everyone did it, but they don't for myriad reasons.
I think that most sentient adults are capable of making risk assessments and deciding whether or not they wish to take them.  Those using add-ons from other than the official repository must know, or they do now, that doing so is at your own risk (AYOR).
But, my experience with software in general far more closely mirrors that of Vlad, "non-official rarely means dangerous."   I cannot count the number of "very focused purpose" mini-utilities I've used that were developed by some individual based upon their need that later fulfilled one of mine, and perfectly and safely.
One of the big mistakes I think that both NVDA and JAWS have made is not setting up "official but unvetted" repositories for user-created add-ons/scripts.   There is just so much material out there that's been created for "odd little needs" that could so easily be shared if the mechanism existed "at the source," but it doesn't.  I got huge push-back from "the powers that be" when I started a repository (personally maintained) of repair, restoration, & other miscellaneous resources for Rolls-Royce motorcars.  The Rolls-Royce Owners' Club wouldn't touch it, saying they couldn't be responsible if any of the goods or services were found to be substandard, but it's now become a reference that's used the world over (at least if the e-mail messages I've received over time, and keep receiving, are any indication).  In this day and age there is just no excuse for not promoting information sharing so long as those on the receiving end know that they need to do their own risk assessment about its use, which they should be doing anyway for anything, and letting the chips fall where they may.  The world at large is not, and will never be, "sanitized for your protection" and one must move through the world with that always in the back of one's mind.  How far to the back will vary, greatly, depending on the situation and stakes at play.
--
*Brian**-*Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134
/Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong./
          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA /The Sage of Baltimore/


Re: [nvda-addons] FW: [nvda] "Unofficial" NVDA Add-Ons Repository

Adriani Botez
 

Well, then we should create a separate repository on github called “untested addons” and every author could compile his addon and just put it in that repository.

 

Best

Adriani

 

 

Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Brian Vogel
Gesendet: Montag, 4. Juni 2018 23:52
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda-addons] FW: [nvda] "Unofficial" NVDA Add-Ons Repository

 

On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 02:43 pm, Adriani Botez wrote:

The decision of an author to make an addon available for the entire worldwide community can and should not be manipulated by any system restriction or what so ever. The only thing we can do is to encourage anyone to submit his addons. The man power is in place, the systems are in place, the structure is in place. It is not more than writing an e-mail and requesting a review. But it is still the decision of an author if he wants to make this step or not.

 

I want to make entirely clear that there is no attempt on my part to even suggest, let alone implement, coercion of any sort with regard to "arm twisting" private authors of add-ons with regard to distributing them.  I know that some would do so, quite willingly, if they had some established way of doing so and if it were possible for them to decide whether they wanted their add-ons, and themselves, subject to review and vetting.

It should be possible for anyone to offer an add-on for others to use knowing full well that there are no guarantees or warranties of any sort, nor an absolute guarantee of fitness for purpose.

This is just about making it easy for private add-on developers who wish to offer their work at no charge to have a very easy way of doing so.  Conversely, it makes these available in a "one stop shop" for the rest of the user community to pick up and try. 
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore

 

 


Re: [nvda-addons] FW: [nvda] "Unofficial" NVDA Add-Ons Repository

 

An additional note with regard to languages, open source projects routinely recruit volunteer translators when interfaces or documentation need to be made available in a language other than the one in which they originated.

I cannot imagine, given the worldwide user base of NVDA, that there would not be an abundant supply of willing volunteers to do the same.

I'm monolingual, but were I bilingual or multilingual I'd certainly consider doing that sort of translation.  If you can't code add-ons this is a big way you can help out.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore

 

 


Re: [nvda-addons] FW: [nvda] "Unofficial" NVDA Add-Ons Repository

 

Hi,

Response forwarded to NVDA add-ons list.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, June 4, 2018 2:52 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-addons] FW: [nvda] "Unofficial" NVDA Add-Ons Repository

 

On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 02:43 pm, Adriani Botez wrote:

The decision of an author to make an addon available for the entire worldwide community can and should not be manipulated by any system restriction or what so ever. The only thing we can do is to encourage anyone to submit his addons. The man power is in place, the systems are in place, the structure is in place. It is not more than writing an e-mail and requesting a review. But it is still the decision of an author if he wants to make this step or not.

 

I want to make entirely clear that there is no attempt on my part to even suggest, let alone implement, coercion of any sort with regard to "arm twisting" private authors of add-ons with regard to distributing them.  I know that some would do so, quite willingly, if they had some established way of doing so and if it were possible for them to decide whether they wanted their add-ons, and themselves, subject to review and vetting.

It should be possible for anyone to offer an add-on for others to use knowing full well that there are no guarantees or warranties of any sort, nor an absolute guarantee of fitness for purpose.

This is just about making it easy for private add-on developers who wish to offer their work at no charge to have a very easy way of doing so.  Conversely, it makes these available in a "one stop shop" for the rest of the user community to pick up and try. 
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore

 

 


Re: [nvda-addons] FW: [nvda] "Unofficial" NVDA Add-Ons Repository

 

On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 02:43 pm, Adriani Botez wrote:

The decision of an author to make an addon available for the entire worldwide community can and should not be manipulated by any system restriction or what so ever. The only thing we can do is to encourage anyone to submit his addons. The man power is in place, the systems are in place, the structure is in place. It is not more than writing an e-mail and requesting a review. But it is still the decision of an author if he wants to make this step or not.

 

I want to make entirely clear that there is no attempt on my part to even suggest, let alone implement, coercion of any sort with regard to "arm twisting" private authors of add-ons with regard to distributing them.  I know that some would do so, quite willingly, if they had some established way of doing so and if it were possible for them to decide whether they wanted their add-ons, and themselves, subject to review and vetting.

It should be possible for anyone to offer an add-on for others to use knowing full well that there are no guarantees or warranties of any sort, nor an absolute guarantee of fitness for purpose.

This is just about making it easy for private add-on developers who wish to offer their work at no charge to have a very easy way of doing so.  Conversely, it makes these available in a "one stop shop" for the rest of the user community to pick up and try. 
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore

 

 


Re: [nvda-addons] FW: [nvda] "Unofficial" NVDA Add-Ons Repository

Adriani Botez
 

Dear all,

 

I don’t find the original post in my inbox, but I want to answer to this statement though.

 

Some months ago I discovered the french addon website and made some statements about cooperations between addon authors. At that time it was all about audacity. Two brilliant authors in my opinion, Paul B. and Robert H. have developed two complex addons for the same software. Then I discovered, that there is a very useful addon for Microsoft word on the French website. Its functions could have been integrated in the appmodule since very long time. Moreover, there is the Italian addon repository, with very useful addons as well. And there are many other addon websites we might not know about.

 

Well, ideally authors should cooperate with each other on a worldwide basis, but that’s why we organize NVDACon every year. However, there is someone who is creating an addon for his needs and might want to share it just with a small community of people. There are many reasons for this behavior:

  1. The author cannot speak English and thus, he cannot understand user feedback
  2. The author knows that he or she will not be able to invest a huge amount of time in maintaining the addon. He or she thinks maybe if the addon is spread all over the world, the feedback will cause far too much work.
  3. The author does not understand the git system or is used to other subversion systems and might not want to change this.

 

The decision of an author to make an addon available for the entire worldwide community can and should not be manipulated by any system restriction or what so ever. The only thing we can do is to encourage anyone to submit his addons. The man power is in place, the systems are in place, the structure is in place. It is not more than writing an e-mail and requesting a review. But it is still the decision of an author if he wants to make this step or not.

 

 

Best

Adriani

 

 

Von: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io <nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Joseph Lee
Gesendet: Montag, 4. Juni 2018 16:21
An: nvda-addons@groups.io
Betreff: [nvda-addons] FW: [nvda] "Unofficial" NVDA Add-Ons Repository

 

Hi all,

Do we have any response to this? I think the below suggestion shows that we need to do something about making authors not listed on official add-ons site feel comfortable submitting their add-ons for review here.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, June 4, 2018 7:17 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] "Unofficial" NVDA Add-Ons Repository

 

On Sun, Jun 3, 2018 at 08:09 pm, Joseph Lee wrote:

The position of the NVDA add-ons community is that we encourage add-on authors to submit add-ons for review

Which would be ideal, if  everyone did it, but they don't for myriad reasons.

I think that most sentient adults are capable of making risk assessments and deciding whether or not they wish to take them.  Those using add-ons from other than the official repository must know, or they do now, that doing so is at your own risk (AYOR).

But, my experience with software in general far more closely mirrors that of Vlad, "non-official rarely means dangerous."   I cannot count the number of "very focused purpose" mini-utilities I've used that were developed by some individual based upon their need that later fulfilled one of mine, and perfectly and safely.  

One of the big mistakes I think that both NVDA and JAWS have made is not setting up "official but unvetted" repositories for user-created add-ons/scripts.   There is just so much material out there that's been created for "odd little needs" that could so easily be shared if the mechanism existed "at the source," but it doesn't.  I got huge push-back from "the powers that be" when I started a repository (personally maintained) of repair, restoration, & other miscellaneous resources for Rolls-Royce motorcars.  The Rolls-Royce Owners' Club wouldn't touch it, saying they couldn't be responsible if any of the goods or services were found to be substandard, but it's now become a reference that's used the world over (at least if the e-mail messages I've received over time, and keep receiving, are any indication).  In this day and age there is just no excuse for not promoting information sharing so long as those on the receiving end know that they need to do their own risk assessment about its use, which they should be doing anyway for anything, and letting the chips fall where they may.  The world at large is not, and will never be, "sanitized for your protection" and one must move through the world with that always in the back of one's mind.  How far to the back will vary, greatly, depending on the situation and stakes at play.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore

 

 


Re: Firefox 60, with NVDA 2018.2RC2, can't click on links

Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi


Out of curiosity is screen layout turned on? If so i or most people will turn it off.


There is a short cut to do it but you must be in the browser and focused on the page.


Then use the nvda key + letter V to turn it off you should hear it spoken. Then take it for a drive again does it fix the problem?



It can also be done in the browse mode settings and look for the one that says use screen lay out if supported and uncheck this box.


Gene nz



On 6/5/2018 2:38 AM, Jessica D wrote:

Hi,

I’m having serious issues clicking links in Firefox 60, when using NVDA 2018.2RC2.

 

This issue has occurred for many versions of Firefox for me.

 

What can I do?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 



Re: i need list of accessible browsers

Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi


have a look on my nvda road tested programs page which is off my web
site at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net/

then when you are on that page jump down to a heading called browsers or
it may be supported browsers. When the list was put together  back then
they were the browsers that worked with nvda from feed back from the
community.


Gene nz

On 6/4/2018 9:31 PM, zahra wrote:
hello every one.
i wish that find list of browsers based on chrome and based on firefox
and level of there accessibility.
how can i find such list?
can someone please send me the link?
also, did someone test opera recently to see its accessibility?
how about chromium, slimjet and vivaldi?
i appreciate any help, God bless you all!


gitlab

 

Hi.

Searching google today with the rumor about ms getting github people are already moving to gitlab witch is another previder of git like services.

I don't see the need to rush into things on the other hand maybe we should to continue as we are.


Re: Microsoft is acquiring Github

Marshall handheld Flax
 

The beauty of git is that everyone who has a local clone of a repo has the *full* history of the repo.  So NVDA is in no immediate danger.

Long-term, things could get worse.  But I think NVDA has a strong user community outside of Github...it will do just fine regardless of what happens to github.

Marshall

On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 4:15 PM, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
Well git does professional services but still.

A universal git, I don't know.

A lot of opensource and modded things like drivers and all sorts of projects are handled there.

But a lot of stuff is done on git.

There are other platforms.

sourceforge is one of them.

Ofcause they finance themselves with opencandy and other malware.

Thats seen me abandon things like cdex, izarchiver, freemake and dvdvideosoft products sometimes I have to buy expensive other tools which may not work as well.

Cdbxp has an alternit installer, and well ccleaner with avast and chrome, well I just get used to that but even so.





On 6/5/2018 7:26 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
I guess it depends very much on their reasons for buying it. One assumes it means making money so I'd vee very wary about that for a start. If they got it and shut it all down a heck of a lot of people would be inconvenienced and have to find a new home.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Florian Ionașcu" <florianionascu@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2018 7:11 PM
Subject: [nvda] Microsoft is acquiring Github


Hello everyone!
Well, I know that the message I'm writting is maybe a bit out off-topic,
but I have a breaking news, especially for NVDA's developers, as the
NVDA project is hosted on Github. Microsoft is preparing to acquire this
company, as it purchased Skype, LinkedIn, Nokia, and other companies in
the past. I don't know how could we be affected, but it's well to be up
to date with the things that are happening in the world as much as we
can. Read these posts to find out further information.
https://blogs.microsoft.com/?p=52553832
https://blog.github.com/2018-06-04-github-microsoft/

Cheers,
Florian
















Re: Microsoft is acquiring Github

 

Well with microsoft releasing a lot of opensource thing and with its launch into other oses, android, ios and linux one assumes that this is more streamlining than anything else.

A universal accessible git would be nice for developers.

Skype for what it is is still a good platform especially now they have classic back.

On the other hand, skype itself may die, a lot of people use the facebook owned whats app, and its got better quality and well the family use it.

Its like sky tv vs netflicks and other online retailers, space is tight and limited.

On 6/5/2018 7:48 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Well having read it I am little wiser, its all a bit abstract really.
i just wonder what the bottom line actually is here.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Florian Ionașcu" <florianionascu@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2018 7:11 PM
Subject: [nvda] Microsoft is acquiring Github


Hello everyone!
Well, I know that the message I'm writting is maybe a bit out off-topic,
but I have a breaking news, especially for NVDA's developers, as the
NVDA project is hosted on Github. Microsoft is preparing to acquire this
company, as it purchased Skype, LinkedIn, Nokia, and other companies in
the past. I don't know how could we be affected, but it's well to be up
to date with the things that are happening in the world as much as we
can. Read these posts to find out further information.
https://blogs.microsoft.com/?p=52553832
https://blog.github.com/2018-06-04-github-microsoft/

Cheers,
Florian







Re: Microsoft is acquiring Github

 

Well git does professional services but still.

A universal git, I don't know.

A lot of opensource and modded things like drivers and all sorts of projects are handled there.

But a lot of stuff is done on git.

There are other platforms.

sourceforge is one of them.

Ofcause they finance themselves with opencandy and other malware.

Thats seen me abandon things like cdex, izarchiver, freemake and dvdvideosoft products sometimes I have to buy expensive other tools which may not work as well.

Cdbxp has an alternit installer, and well ccleaner with avast and chrome, well I just get used to that but even so.

On 6/5/2018 7:26 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
I guess it depends very much on their reasons for buying it. One assumes it means making money so I'd vee very wary about that for a start. If they got it and shut it all down a heck of a lot of people would be inconvenienced and have to find a new home.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Florian Ionașcu" <florianionascu@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2018 7:11 PM
Subject: [nvda] Microsoft is acquiring Github


Hello everyone!
Well, I know that the message I'm writting is maybe a bit out off-topic,
but I have a breaking news, especially for NVDA's developers, as the
NVDA project is hosted on Github. Microsoft is preparing to acquire this
company, as it purchased Skype, LinkedIn, Nokia, and other companies in
the past. I don't know how could we be affected, but it's well to be up
to date with the things that are happening in the world as much as we
can. Read these posts to find out further information.
https://blogs.microsoft.com/?p=52553832
https://blog.github.com/2018-06-04-github-microsoft/

Cheers,
Florian







Re: Microsoft is acquiring Github

 

Well I doubt microsoft will kill opensource software in general even for other oses.

They have been open since the death of win10 mobile and their mobile devices.

At least I hope that doesn't happen.

Things we could see that are positive could include the git intergration into windows development environment and windows insiders having git access or ms account needed for git access which isn't a bad thing by any stretch.

Full accessible git support etc.

However with twitter shutting down third party apps, they simply could close git down.

On 6/5/2018 6:11 AM, Florian Ionașcu wrote:
Hello everyone!
Well, I know that the message I'm writting is maybe a bit out off-topic,
but I have a breaking news, especially for NVDA's developers, as the
NVDA project is hosted on Github. Microsoft is preparing to acquire this
company, as it purchased Skype, LinkedIn, Nokia, and other companies in
the past. I don't know how could we be affected, but it's well to be up
to date with the things that are happening in the world as much as we
can. Read these posts to find out further information.
https://blogs.microsoft.com/?p=52553832
https://blog.github.com/2018-06-04-github-microsoft/

Cheers,
Florian



Re: Microsoft is acquiring Github

Brian's Mail list account
 

Well having read it I am little wiser, its all a bit abstract really.
i just wonder what the bottom line actually is here.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Florian Ionașcu" <florianionascu@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2018 7:11 PM
Subject: [nvda] Microsoft is acquiring Github


Hello everyone!
Well, I know that the message I'm writting is maybe a bit out off-topic,
but I have a breaking news, especially for NVDA's developers, as the
NVDA project is hosted on Github. Microsoft is preparing to acquire this
company, as it purchased Skype, LinkedIn, Nokia, and other companies in
the past. I don't know how could we be affected, but it's well to be up
to date with the things that are happening in the world as much as we
can. Read these posts to find out further information.
https://blogs.microsoft.com/?p=52553832
https://blog.github.com/2018-06-04-github-microsoft/

Cheers,
Florian




Re: Firefox 60, with NVDA 2018.2RC2, can't click on links

Gene
 

Have you tested with another screen-reader?  and what happens if you turn off browse mode, tab to a link, then press enter?
 
Are you pressing enter on links? 
 
To test with browse mode off, do the following:
Turn off browse mode with NVDA key space bar. 
Tab to a link and press enter.  Turn on browse mode with the same command, NVDA key plus space bar.
Wait a little to see if the page loads.  Then look around to see if you are on the page.
 
Gene
----- Original Message
From: Jessica D
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2018 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 60, with NVDA 2018.2RC2, can't click on links

Hi,
Yes, no links can be clicked.
when NVDA says something is a link, I can’t activate it.



On Jun 4, 2018, at 12:42 PM, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:

I don't either. All works over here, at least as far as I know and the last time I use FF which was I believe Sunday or so.

On Jun 4, 2018, at 9:21 AM, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:

hi.
are you sure that the links are not graphical links or just clickable links?
i dont have such a problem using firefox not quantum versions.
the only problem for me in this regard is graphical links.

On 6/4/18, Jessica D <jldail13@...> wrote:
Hi,
I’m having serious issues clicking links in Firefox 60, when using NVDA
2018.2RC2.

This issue has occurred for many versions of Firefox for me.

What can I do?

Thanks,
Jessica


Sent from Mail for Windows 10




-- 
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


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